Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #51  
Old 05-13-2019, 08:18 AM
Broomstick's Avatar
Broomstick is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NW Indiana
Posts: 28,286
Quote:
Originally Posted by DPRK View Post
As for the other questions, he says that if it hadn't been him, some other angel would have rebelled. Hell was where he and his comrades fell into when they were kicked out of the Silver City (so presumably it was already there...) After he fucks off (first to Perth, then Los Angeles), eventually a couple of other angels (Remiel and Duma) get stuck with the job.
Huh, been thinking about this - they did introduce Remiel this season. She didn't have much of a role in my opinion, but she very much could become important later. Without getting too spoilery it is definitely established this season that hell MUST have a ruler and having Remiel in charge could allow Lucifer to spend time on Earth in a manner relatively safe for the universe at large.

And speaking of the future - the producers/writers/etc. are making noises about a season 5 but no word from Netflix on that. If anything, I think this season is much stronger than the prior one. Although the finale would be a workable ending for the series I'd really like to see more.
  #52  
Old 05-13-2019, 12:44 PM
FoieGrasIsEvil's Avatar
FoieGrasIsEvil is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Land of Cheese Coneys
Posts: 17,944
Very crafty move by the priest to sow seeds of discord between Lucifer and Chloe.
__________________
Posting From Above The Browns
  #53  
Old 05-13-2019, 02:27 PM
FoieGrasIsEvil's Avatar
FoieGrasIsEvil is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Land of Cheese Coneys
Posts: 17,944
Linda finding out about Eve:
"Well, I am carrying an angel baby, so I guess this is just a normal Tuesday for me now."
__________________
Posting From Above The Browns
  #54  
Old 05-13-2019, 04:19 PM
Broomstick's Avatar
Broomstick is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NW Indiana
Posts: 28,286
Bubblewrap on the ceiling fan. I wonder if Amendiel flew up there or they used a ladder? No sign of one on the episode.
  #55  
Old 05-13-2019, 04:52 PM
FoieGrasIsEvil's Avatar
FoieGrasIsEvil is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Land of Cheese Coneys
Posts: 17,944
I'm hooked, although I accidentally watched Ep 1 of season 4 first, then just rolled with it. Not sure if I really need to go back and watch seasons 1-3 now after knowing about the "reveal".
__________________
Posting From Above The Browns
  #56  
Old 05-13-2019, 05:05 PM
Broomstick's Avatar
Broomstick is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NW Indiana
Posts: 28,286
If you're happy watching season 4 and want more go back to the beginning - sure, you'll have a couple fewer surprises but it's a fun ride.
  #57  
Old 05-13-2019, 05:11 PM
DPRK is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 3,152
Quote:
Originally Posted by Broomstick View Post
Yeah, but I think it's pretty clear that the Lucifer!TV is a different universe (or collection of universes) than Lucifer!comic
Could be. They are telling different stories. But they are using the same background (it even says, "based on [...]"): he runs a piano bar named "Lux" with his pal Maze, etc. So, to the extent the TV writers haven't made up their own, contradictory material, or simply haven't thought about it, there is the general background story from the comics.


Quote:
Clearly, though, by the time the Old Testament was standardized she had been retconned out of it, if she had ever been there in the first place.
Oh, there was clearly a lot of deliberate editing, but she's not completely gone. They put in some commandments to destroy and burn her shrines.
Quote:
And speaking of the future - the producers/writers/etc. are making noises about a season 5 but no word from Netflix on that. If anything, I think this season is much stronger than the prior one. Although the finale would be a workable ending for the series I'd really like to see more.
At least there is a new series of comics out Starting with a disheveled Lucifer trapped in some weird-ass town, and featuring LAPD detective John Decker.
  #58  
Old 05-13-2019, 05:56 PM
Broomstick's Avatar
Broomstick is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NW Indiana
Posts: 28,286
Can we talk about the bar fight in "All About Eve"? I loved that bar fight. We could probably do it without getting all spoilerly. It was so much fun right up to the "Helllllloooooo Detective!"
  #59  
Old 05-13-2019, 07:02 PM
FoieGrasIsEvil's Avatar
FoieGrasIsEvil is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Land of Cheese Coneys
Posts: 17,944
Quote:
Originally Posted by Broomstick View Post
Can we talk about the bar fight in "All About Eve"? I loved that bar fight. We could probably do it without getting all spoilerly. It was so much fun right up to the "Helllllloooooo Detective!"
Since that episode, Eve has become a little less likeable to me. She exhibits the same kind of erotic reaction to the punishment of evil-doers as the evil-doers themselves often experience murdering people.

That episode with Lela being dosed on ecstasy was pretty hilarious though.

When she hugs Chloe and admiringly comments that her coat feels so good that it must be like "being hugged by a muppet" had me rolling (natch).
__________________
Posting From Above The Browns
  #60  
Old 05-13-2019, 07:10 PM
FoieGrasIsEvil's Avatar
FoieGrasIsEvil is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Land of Cheese Coneys
Posts: 17,944
Missed the edit: I meant Ella, not Lela. LOL, been half re-watching The Fifth Element lately.
__________________
Posting From Above The Browns
  #61  
Old 05-13-2019, 09:11 PM
Broomstick's Avatar
Broomstick is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NW Indiana
Posts: 28,286
Eve strikes me as the sort of woman who will provoke some shit and then expect her big, strong man to bail her out. Which does work for Lucifer, in that when Chloe isn't around he really is literally bulletproof and super-strong even with Chloe around. Also, pretty clear that even when he is vulnerable to physical damage he is still more durable than a human - he's sustained some injuries and kept going on that in a human would probably be either instantly incapacitating or at least severely impairing. Shot in the hand? Sure, it impairs his piano playing for a few days but meanwhile he can one-hand grip an SUV firmly enough with it that the vehicle can't drive off. The average guy isn't like that.

Which gets back to the bar fight (no, he doesn't get shot in it). Aside from the music, the action, the no-sell of people attempting to hit Lucifer with various objects or use weapons on him, it's very clear that Lucifer is not only stronger than a human but also significantly faster as well. A barfight is a game or a dance to Lucifer, he's in control, and even in the midst of mayhem he keeps to the "angels don't kill humans" rule.

(We saw that all the way back in season one with the fight involving Amenadiel and Lucifer against the armed thugs in "Take Me Back To Hell" - they're "enjoying the moment".)

But what I like about the bar fight isn't just Lucifer - it's the background stuff going on. The barkeeper can be seen wiping down the bar like nothing is going on, one old man at the bar gets showered with broken glass and just absently brushes it off and goes back to his beer, people are playing video games oblivious to other patrons fighting. They've done a nice job with background details in this series.

For another example - there are a LOT of apples in the background along with Eve. The appletinis she is always ordering are obvious, but there are baskets/piles of apples in the background fairly frequently in her scenes.
  #62  
Old 05-15-2019, 09:14 AM
FoieGrasIsEvil's Avatar
FoieGrasIsEvil is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Land of Cheese Coneys
Posts: 17,944
Yeah, that scene was incredibly well-choreographed and definitely showed Lucifer's supernatural skills at play.
__________________
Posting From Above The Browns
  #63  
Old 05-15-2019, 09:53 AM
Infovore is offline
Doltish Snackhound
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Somewhere fictional
Posts: 11,399
Quote:
Originally Posted by Broomstick View Post
Huh, been thinking about this - they did introduce Remiel this season. She didn't have much of a role in my opinion, but she very much could become important later.
Was it me, or was the actress playing Remiel...well...terrible? She only had one expression, and delivered every single line in a kind of clipped, pissed, too-loud voice. For me, it was distracting enough that it took me out of the action. I hope if there's a season 5 they either replace her or give her some acting lessons.
  #64  
Old 05-15-2019, 10:34 AM
FoieGrasIsEvil's Avatar
FoieGrasIsEvil is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Land of Cheese Coneys
Posts: 17,944
Quote:
Originally Posted by Infovore View Post
Was it me, or was the actress playing Remiel...well...terrible? She only had one expression, and delivered every single line in a kind of clipped, pissed, too-loud voice. For me, it was distracting enough that it took me out of the action. I hope if there's a season 5 they either replace her or give her some acting lessons.
Hah! My oldest son and I have been watching this season together and right after she uttered her first few lines my son and I exchanged "WTF?" glances, then later agreed that everything about her sucked: the actress, her stupid costume that looked like standard ren-fair garb and nothing celestial at all, her mission, all of it.
__________________
Posting From Above The Browns
  #65  
Old 05-15-2019, 10:44 AM
Infovore is offline
Doltish Snackhound
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Somewhere fictional
Posts: 11,399
Quote:
Originally Posted by FoieGrasIsEvil View Post
Hah! My oldest son and I have been watching this season together and right after she uttered her first few lines my son and I exchanged "WTF?" glances, then later agreed that everything about her sucked: the actress, her stupid costume that looked like standard ren-fair garb and nothing celestial at all, her mission, all of it.
I just looked her up. "[Vinessa] Vidotto graduated from the University of Arizona with an acting BFA just this year and moved to Los Angeles. Less than a month later she landed Lucifer, her first professional credit."

Gee, that's a surprise. Maybe she'll improve over time. She can't get much worse...
  #66  
Old 05-15-2019, 10:57 AM
FoieGrasIsEvil's Avatar
FoieGrasIsEvil is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Land of Cheese Coneys
Posts: 17,944
Quote:
Originally Posted by Infovore View Post
I just looked her up. "[Vinessa] Vidotto graduated from the University of Arizona with an acting BFA just this year and moved to Los Angeles. Less than a month later she landed Lucifer, her first professional credit."

Gee, that's a surprise. Maybe she'll improve over time. She can't get much worse...
Maybe she won't come back. After all, Amandiel made her promise. Of course now he's doubting Earth as being suitable for his baby after the murder of that kid, so...???

Since I missed seasons 1-3, I have to ask, although I think I already know the answer: is heaven (Silver City) ever depicted in the show?
__________________
Posting From Above The Browns
  #67  
Old 05-15-2019, 11:13 AM
Infovore is offline
Doltish Snackhound
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Somewhere fictional
Posts: 11,399
Quote:
Originally Posted by FoieGrasIsEvil View Post

Since I missed seasons 1-3, I have to ask, although I think I already know the answer: is heaven (Silver City) ever depicted in the show?
Not that I remember. Hell has been a couple of times, but only in the vaguest sense--lots of slatey gray rock and twisty passageways, but that's about it.
  #68  
Old 05-15-2019, 11:49 AM
control-z is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Virginia
Posts: 12,766
Quote:
Originally Posted by Infovore View Post
Was it me, or was the actress playing Remiel...well...terrible? She only had one expression, and delivered every single line in a kind of clipped, pissed, too-loud voice. For me, it was distracting enough that it took me out of the action. I hope if there's a season 5 they either replace her or give her some acting lessons.
I'm guessing she is supposed to be un-human, that is how an angel fresh out of heaven would act.
  #69  
Old 05-15-2019, 03:41 PM
Broomstick's Avatar
Broomstick is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NW Indiana
Posts: 28,286
Quote:
Originally Posted by FoieGrasIsEvil View Post
Since I missed seasons 1-3, I have to ask, although I think I already know the answer: is heaven (Silver City) ever depicted in the show?
Nope.

Although supposedly it really does have pearly gates.
  #70  
Old 05-20-2019, 03:42 AM
Alessan's Avatar
Alessan is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Tel Aviv
Posts: 24,254
Quote:
Originally Posted by Infovore View Post
Was it me, or was the actress playing Remiel...well...terrible? She only had one expression, and delivered every single line in a kind of clipped, pissed, too-loud voice. For me, it was distracting enough that it took me out of the action. I hope if there's a season 5 they either replace her or give her some acting lessons.
She looked and sounded like Summer Glau's non-union equivalent.
  #71  
Old 05-21-2019, 10:52 AM
Mikemike2's Avatar
Mikemike2 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Calgary
Posts: 1,172

Lucifer Season 4 - Possilbe spoilers, but wont overdue it.


I started binge watching Lucifer season 4 last night. I got about 7 episodes in, and am enjoying this season as much as the other seasons.

It is dealing with the difficulty Chloe is having now that she now knows that Lucifer is actually the devil and that heaven and hell are real. Is the devil irredeemably evil?

Eve shows up in the first episode or so of Adam and Eve fame, and that is fun. Cain was her son, who was murdered by Lucifer, but so far that does not seem to be too big of a deal.

In the meantime, they continue to solve a murder each episode as a backdrop to the stories.

Are you guys enjoying this season?
  #72  
Old 05-21-2019, 12:01 PM
Broomstick's Avatar
Broomstick is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NW Indiana
Posts: 28,286
Immensely.

Are you aware there is another Lucifer thread? I don't care if you want to discuss season 4 here, talk in the other thread, ask the mods to merge them, or whatever, just thought that if you're a fan you might want to know about the other one.
  #73  
Old 05-21-2019, 12:56 PM
Mikemike2's Avatar
Mikemike2 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Calgary
Posts: 1,172
Sure, we can merge or close this thread. I searched for Lucifer Season 4 and nothing came up.
  #74  
Old 05-21-2019, 03:52 PM
control-z is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Virginia
Posts: 12,766
Finished up season 4, that was a fairly satisfying conclusion. The way they ended it could be a season finale or a series finale, guess they aren't sure.
  #75  
Old 05-21-2019, 04:04 PM
Broomstick's Avatar
Broomstick is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NW Indiana
Posts: 28,286
I'm hoping it's not the end of the series.... probably true for those involved on the show, too.

Still, a very bittersweet ending. Ironic, too - all the angels of heaven couldn't get Lucifer to return to hell, but he winds up going back of his own free will and in doing so performs an awesomely unselfish act.
  #76  
Old 05-21-2019, 04:05 PM
Broomstick's Avatar
Broomstick is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NW Indiana
Posts: 28,286
Quote:
Originally Posted by Infovore View Post
Was it me, or was the actress playing Remiel...well...terrible? She only had one expression, and delivered every single line in a kind of clipped, pissed, too-loud voice. For me, it was distracting enough that it took me out of the action. I hope if there's a season 5 they either replace her or give her some acting lessons.
The most generous spin I could put on it is that she like Amenadiel was in the beginning - arrogant, disdainful of humans, and without a great emotional range or empathy. She a contrast between what Amenadiel is now and what he was.
  #77  
Old 05-22-2019, 04:35 AM
MrDibble's Avatar
MrDibble is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Cape Town, South Africa &
Posts: 25,334
Quote:
Originally Posted by Broomstick View Post
Having Maze speak her native tongue, Lilim, was pretty funny, actually. It was so stereotypically demon-sounding.
Ha ha! Other than the effects, that was straight-up Afrikaans!
  #78  
Old 05-22-2019, 08:55 AM
Broomstick's Avatar
Broomstick is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NW Indiana
Posts: 28,286
Yep - which doesn't sound threatening at all, but that's why they added the effects.

Speaking of voice effects - the ones at the end when Lucifer is full on King of Hell I thought were a bit overdone, to the point he was getting hard to understand, it sounded kind of "mushy".
  #79  
Old 05-22-2019, 12:23 PM
BwanaBob's Avatar
BwanaBob is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Maryland
Posts: 4,110
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrDibble View Post
Ha ha! Other than the effects, that was straight-up Afrikaans!
The actress who plays Maze is from South Africa so no surprise there.
__________________
Go wherever you can be
And live for the day
It's only wear and tear
-IQ
  #80  
Old 05-24-2019, 04:48 AM
Broomstick's Avatar
Broomstick is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NW Indiana
Posts: 28,286
Lucifer and crooked cops: Lucifer does not view "victimless" crimes as crimes as such. Thus, he's pro-drug, probably pro-sex work as long as it really is a voluntary choice, will bribe someone, etc. Although as pointed out as far back as in the first season sometimes those actions have very negative consequences down the line. Lucifer is all about free will and fulfilling your desires, but there's an unspoken caveat that you shouldn't hurt other people - hence his dislike/hatred of rapists and murderers, because they thwart the desires of their victims and hurt them.

Lucifer likes cops that take bribes, or look the other way with drug use. He has no tolerance for a cop like Malcolm who kills other people and threatens those Lucifer cares about. He had zero sympathy for the rapist in "Trip to Stabby Town" and in fact lets his killer - a former victim - literally get away with murder (although I think that was also because he knew she was under the influence of Azreal's Blade, too).

Lucifer's durability: An example of Lucifer's durability/pain tolerance is the fact he amputated his own wings. Multiple times! Then goes back to doing stuff like nothing happened. Granted, I'm not entirely sold on them being regular limbs like his arms or legs, but still that's gotta hurt. Also clearly some of it is just pain suppression. In "They're Back, Aren't They?" at one point Dan gives Lucifer a good, hearty slap on the back that clearly causes intense pain to Lucifer - because he's just cut them off and his back is sore (which I imagine is an understatement). So yes, some of his ability to function despite being severely injured is just the ability to tolerate high levels of pain, but his ability to do this far exceeds the human norm. Wonder if that's something common to angels or something Lucifer has developed on his own?

How Lucifer gets away with so much shit: Two words: weirdness censor. Clearly, there is one in effect in the Luciferverse. The muggles have to have their faces rubbed hard in weirdness before they drop the censor. Amenadiel spends time, especially at first, worried about humans finding out about the divine. Lucifer knows they're all in denial and that's why he can tell people up front "I'm the Devil" - he knows from experience he won't be believed. It takes either his Devil Face or his popping out a pair of wings to convince people. So I have to wonder if some of that extends to his surroundings. He gets away with stuff, like his habit of "sampling" drug evidence and bribing people, because the weirdness censor makes everyone, including cops, tend to look the other way. Unless he's openly doing lines of coke on the precinct chief's desk in front of everyone he's going to get away with it. It even works with Choe. People come up with ways to explain the impossible things they see until they absolutely can't do that anymore. Then the weirdness censor drops away. Lucifer plays with this - there's a great example with Ella in "Everything's Okay". Actually, two - in the first scene Lucifer is very much talking about some of the not-normal stuff in his life to someone who has actually seen both Amenadiel and Lucifer in action as angels/Devil and the guy is still in denial until his face gets rubbed in it hard again. Granted, he's not the brightest bulb in the marquee but I get the impression he's going to talk himself into thinking he just imagined all that stuff - again.

Last edited by Broomstick; 05-24-2019 at 04:49 AM.
  #81  
Old 05-24-2019, 07:41 AM
What Exit?'s Avatar
What Exit? is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Central NJ (near Bree)
Posts: 28,981
Besides the weirdness censor, there is also the fact that writers like to treat LA, NYC & New Orleans as such odd and jaded places, that almost any weirdness is greeted by people using Occam's Razor (even if they don't know it as such) to explain away the weirdness in acceptable normality.

What Lucifer gets away with in LA, wouldn't fly in Kansas City or even San Diego.
  #82  
Old 05-24-2019, 05:33 PM
Broomstick's Avatar
Broomstick is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NW Indiana
Posts: 28,286
The larger the city the stranger the tolerated behavior - I lived in Chicago 15 years and saw a lot of weird shit walking down the street and riding the CTA. New York used to be famous for its inhabitants' weirdness censors in real life. It would not surprise me if other large urban areas are similar.
  #83  
Old 05-26-2019, 09:38 PM
N9IWP is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Southeast MN
Posts: 6,227
I just watched episode 2 so I just skimmed this thread. Just noting the priest is played by Graham McTavish, who was also Dwalin in the Hobbit movies, and King Atlan in Aquaman.

Brian
  #84  
Old 05-27-2019, 07:53 PM
purplehorseshoe is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Texas, USA
Posts: 9,893
I'm very late to the party - just started watching this one.

And I would just like to say that I am fascinated by his guyliner!
__________________
I can haz sig line?
  #85  
Old 06-06-2019, 07:43 PM
Broomstick's Avatar
Broomstick is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NW Indiana
Posts: 28,286
Netflix announced a fifth "and final" season today, with a tagline of "see you in hell".
  #86  
Old 06-06-2019, 10:51 PM
MacTech is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Sector ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha
Posts: 6,311
The only thing that kind of takes me out of the moment in the series is when Lucifer shows his "Devil Face", every time I see that makeup, I quip to myself....

"So, he's just Deadpool..."
__________________
Freakazoid> dumb, Dumb, DUMB!, NEVER tell the villain how to trap you in a cage!
Gutierrez> You probably shouldn't have helped us build it either...
F!> I know, DUMB!
  #87  
Old 06-07-2019, 04:17 PM
Czarcasm's Avatar
Czarcasm is offline
Charter Member
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 60,817
Apparently Season Five is a go.
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:17 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@straightdope.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Copyright 2018 STM Reader, LLC.

 
Copyright © 2017