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  #101  
Old 04-13-2019, 03:41 AM
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I well remember, back in the day when you got meals on flights without having to pay for them, flying from Toronto to Vancouver early one morning. It turned out that we had a choice of two breakfasts: scrambled eggs or an omelette.

Now, I cannot eat eggs. I was allergic to them as a child. Nowadays, I can certainly eat things prepared with eggs as an ingredient (cakes and breads, for example), but the typical breakfast, where eggs on their own (scrambled, over-easy, sunny-side-up, fried, boiled, poached, etc.) come as a default, is not for me. If they're on the same plate as my bacon, home fries, and toast, no problem; but don't expect me to eat them.

Back to that flight. The choice was scrambled eggs or an omelette--along with a nice fruit cocktail, a couple of sausages, a roll and butter and jam, juice and coffee, and a sweet of some sort. I stupidly told the flight attendant that I was allergic to eggs, so would prefer neither the scrambled nor the omelette on my tray, just everything else. In other words, just bring me the typical tray without the hot egg entree. Well, that sent them into a panic, and despite my protests, they refused to give me anything "because it's been in the presence of eggs." Rather reluctantly, they allowed me one cup of coffee, a half-hour after everybody else had eaten and the trays were removed. No juice, no fruit cocktail, no sausage, no home fries. Just a reluctantly-served cup of coffee.

My point? If someone tells you that they cannot eat something, that does not mean that they cannot eat, period. Listen to their concerns and wishes, and act accordingly.

I should add: on subsequent morning flights, I asked for the omelette, and never touched it. But I happily ate everything else.
  #102  
Old 04-13-2019, 03:43 AM
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Yeah, that's a pretty weird list of allergies. And it's a lot of my staples, too.

My SIL is sensitive to a weird list of foods, but yours is weirder.
That's not even complete. And it does confuse people.

For example, Southlake Methodist hospital in Merrillville, Indiana has me listed as allergic to "citrus". No, I am not allergic to "citrus", I am allergic to oranges. I'm just fine with grapefruit, lemons, limes, kumquats, etc. But apparently when I listed "oranges" with my allergies someone took that to mean "citrus" and not that is in my medical record and attempts to change it have been futile.

Or, when I say I'm allergic to lentils, peanuts, and peas someone says "Oh, so you can't eat legumes". No, I can eat many legumes and soy and garbanzo beans are a staple of my diet.

No barley allowed but wheat, rice, rye, etc. are all OK.

Really, if I was making this up I think I'd have some logical rationale for all this but I didn't and I don't. I'm just glad not all of these are "sudden death". Oranges give me hives but not breathing troubles. At least not so far, but I'm avoiding them just to be on the safe side. And I think my problems with corn may be more of an intolerance rather than an actual allergy but diarrhea is no fun so I avoid that, too. Peanuts, again, don't cause breathing problems or even hives, but the all-over body rash that starts up within 24 hours is more than a little worrisome (and then there's the diarrhea...) Looking back I realize that my Epic Skin Issues which became rather infamous around here ceased after I stopped eating anything with peanuts. Coincidence? Maybe. Maybe not. I've been itching a lot less since going peanut-free, too. Damn, I miss my Reese's peanut butter cups but for an intact hide I'm glad to give them up.

There probably are one or two items on The List that may be false alarms (kiwi, for example - I'm not 100% sure it's an allergy problem but why take chances when there are so many other fruits I can eat without worry?) but given two emergency trips to the ER, eczema problems since infancy, asthma, hayfever and so on it's very clear that I'm highly prone to allergies even if most days I have them under control.

Maybe if I win the lottery I'll be able to afford to see an allergist again and really get everything evaluated officially. Might be one or two things I can go back to eating safely but given my distaste for trips to the hospital at this point I just don't want to chance it. My current medical insurance is really designed to discourage going to an allergist, unfortunately, even if they will pay for a hospitalization for a severe reaction. I don't understand the thinking there, but I'm guessing it was made up by someone with no fucking clue about what allergies are, maybe even someone old school enough to believe they're 99% mental problems (although the coverage for mental health sucks, too).

What I have also found is that a lot of medical personnel don't understand allergies, either. I had a doctor once look at The List (yes, I actually do keep a copy of my allergies - it's a lot quicker to hand over a piece of paper with the information than try to speak it and watch the doc struggle to write it all down, or these days type it) and give me a disdainful, patronizing look and say "You know, multiple adult food allergies are very rare." to which I said "Well, doc, looks like I won the lottery for that!" Yes, it is statistically rare. But legitimately allergic to multiple foods adults do exist and I happen to be one of them. And I'm not even a worst-case.

Last edited by Broomstick; 04-13-2019 at 03:45 AM.
  #103  
Old 04-13-2019, 04:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Spoons View Post
I stupidly told the flight attendant that I was allergic to eggs, so would prefer neither the scrambled nor the omelette on my tray, just everything else. In other words, just bring me the typical tray without the hot egg entree. Well, that sent them into a panic, and despite my protests, they refused to give me anything "because it's been in the presence of eggs." Rather reluctantly, they allowed me one cup of coffee, a half-hour after everybody else had eaten and the trays were removed. No juice, no fruit cocktail, no sausage, no home fries. Just a reluctantly-served cup of coffee.

My point? If someone tells you that they cannot eat something, that does not mean that they cannot eat, period. Listen to their concerns and wishes, and act accordingly.
The problem is that there ARE people so sensitive to an item that yes, "being in the presence of it" can cause horrible problems. My niece, for example - horrible, horrible allergy to fish. Hospitalized at one point because of fish cooking in the same house she was in. When she visits her parents their house temporarily becomes a No Fish Zone (and when she goes back home it's a fish dinner for everyone else). I think my sister and her husband went over two decades without having any fish whatsoever in their home while she was growing up. Her allergies make mine look non-existent (although when the two of us have gone out to eat at the same restaurant it can get crazy - one time we both wound up in the kitchen reading ingredient labels for all the foods. To top it off, we're not only allergic to multiple foods each, but our Lists are completely different - we have not one food allergy in common).

So, for my niece, if eggs were a problem (and honestly, I can't remember her complete List, but hypothetically...) then she would have to go hungry in the situation you describe. And both of us have gone hungry rather than take a chance.

So, between people like my niece, and lawsuits, and the extreme difficulty in getting emergency care at 30,000 feet... yes, airline personnel have been instructed to act as they did. I know it's inconvenient as hell, but it's generally at least a half an hour before an airliner can safely land if you're mid-flight, much less start the ambulance ride to the hospital, and epi-pens only last about 15 minutes after giving you the dose... Personally, I do not want to have a major medical emergency at 30,000 feet.

Because of the "Omigod, can't give you anything because ALLERGIES" I will sometimes say "I'm on a very restricted diet" or "I have severe problems with X" and don't want to take the chance of becoming ill mid-flight - could have have this instead of that? (Flight crews are very, very happy to help you avoid becoming ill mid-flight) Or... I'll take this, but I'll have to leave X untouched. Won't work for every situation (clearly, anything drenched in tomato sauce is out for me) but it's usually good enough to get a least a roll or a side of vegetables or some toast or something.

Traveling with food allergies is a bitch. Which is why I'm so glad I did my trip to Europe when I was much younger and The List was shorter (my body seems to want to add another item about every 5-6 years. Stupid immune system!). My Super Allergic Niece recently took a trip to Europe and I'll admit both her mother and I worried, but like me she's dealt with this all her life and she is an adult. Apparently these days there's services that will make cards for you explaining your dietary restriction in any language you want and she packed a "deck" of them in her suitcase, made a lot of use of Google translate, and in general was cautious and careful. She had a wonderful trip even if she had to pass on some of the food.

The difference between my niece and I and the trendy fakers? We don't cheat, or say "oh, just a little bit won't hurt" or any other of that stuff. We will go hungry rather than cheat.

What do I mean by go hungry?

In 2005 I suffered a nasty bought of norovirus. I wound up in the hospital and was permitted nothing by mouth for a week, not even water (thank goodness for IV's, otherwise I would have died of dehydration). So, needless to say, I was hungry. Actually entering into real starvation. So... when I got to start eating again they put a plate of stuff in front of me: coffee (which I usually detest but at that point it tastes heavenly) lime jello, and a cup of beef broth. Now, I view beef broth with deep, dark suspicion because so very often it has tomato in it of some form. And hospital food trays don't come with ingredient labels. So, despite the fact I was starving in a real sense and not hyperbole, and I was so fucking hungry that even something I normally hated tasted good (coffee) I refused to so much as taste the beef broth until the nurse could double check with the kitchen to make absolutely positively 100% certain there was no form of tomato in that beef broth. It took 40 minutes. 40 minutes during which I was nearly crying because I was so fucking hungry and it smelled so fucking good and it was right in front of me... but I will NOT touch beef broth unless I am absolutely, positively, without a doubt certain that it is safe. No matter how hungry I am..

And that level of rule-following and willpower is why I have NOT had an ambulance ride since Halloween Night 1995 in Rockford, Illinois.

It's also why I have Evil Thoughts about punching fakers, trend-followers, and Special Snowflakes right in the teeth - not that I would act on those thoughts, but the cheaters make life so much fucking harder for those of us with a real problem. I can't cheat. Not ever. Not the tiniest bit. If I do my body will punish me hard.
  #104  
Old 04-13-2019, 04:27 AM
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My non-allergies include mussles (no, not shellfish; just mussels), cod (no, not white fish, or fish, or seafood; just cod) and soy (at least with that one most people don't know it's a legume so it's only a pain when people try to feed me soy milk... no damnit, give me animal milk!). The allergy The Niece appears to have outgrown was to a specific flat fish: no, not to shellfish; yes, she can eat shrimp just fine. What part of a shrimp looks to you like a flat fish?

Food sharing is such a huge part of our cultures that any food issues get made bigger by people's reactions to them, which is both a damn pity and a damn PITA.*






* Excuse me, the train to Hell leaves from what platform?
  #105  
Old 04-13-2019, 05:21 AM
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* Excuse me, the train to Hell leaves from what platform?
Due to traffic volume there are two: 13 and 666
  #106  
Old 04-13-2019, 10:44 AM
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Jeez here I am an adult with multiple food allergies. I had no idea how rare a person I am. Or is that special? Anyhow, none of mine lead to death unless they can't stop the hives from spreading. (I understand it's possible to get hives in your windpipe and suffocate but so far I have missed that party You have 100% of my sympathy, Broomstick. And BigT, you are so right.
  #107  
Old 04-13-2019, 12:02 PM
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I cheated the other day. Y'see, my sensitivity to Red 40 just means i get itchy and sneezy, sso when they gave me dark cherry Jello I ate it and relished it and ignored the itchiness in my throat.

Sulfites are another story, and I thank the FDA finally requiring it on the label. No wine at all, balsamic vinegar is iffy, and I read EVERY label.
  #108  
Old 04-13-2019, 12:48 PM
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I'm allergic to cantaloupe. Makes the edges of my tongue, and the back back of my mouth quite sore. It's kind of a variable thing. Grocery store cantaloupe doesn't usually have any effect. It also lacks any flavor, of course, so it's a trade off.

Very good cantaloupe, ripened on the vine, and served immediately after being picked, however makes me react really strongly. The very best cantaloupe hurts so bad that it almost isn't worth it. But I really like the very best cantaloupe, home grown, fertilized with composted stable dirt mulched with year old barn straw. Served still slightly warm from the sun.

Turns out that's the only type I eat. Haven't been able to find it in a while, since I moved away from my favorite farmer. The local farmers market is fairly uneven on cantaloupe quality. Find one worth trying about a third of the time. (you can tell by the smell of the stem place)

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  #109  
Old 04-13-2019, 01:25 PM
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And kids in school with allergies scare the heck out of me, one day I saw little Henry age 7 who supposedly had a serious allergy to dairy and eggs, (that his Mom said caused behavior problems and tummy upset) happily munching down an egg and cheese sandwich washed down with chocolate milk. He told me it no big deal, it doesn't give him a serious sickness just makes him joyful. and he added, my Dad lets my have it when I'm good. Dubious I let my boss know who freaked the fuck out and said he could've died! but dang it was out of my control - no warning he was coming to the self serve breakfast. I mean the diabetic kids and other kids same age with diet restrictions know to stay in their lane, and are very very aware of their condition. So what's up with Henry? Apparently behavior issues the parents attribute to dairy, and a Dr signed off so we make a special lunch for Henry. But what about breakfast, no guidance! Anyway he didn't die after eating eggs, cheese and milk, he didn't even go home that day, he might've ended up in the office. I felt for him, it seemed he was getting mixed messages about food and behavior IMO> Eventually he was taken out of school to be homeschooled.

Last edited by chela; 04-13-2019 at 01:27 PM.
  #110  
Old 04-13-2019, 03:53 PM
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And kids in school with allergies scare the heck out of me, one day I saw little Henry age 7 who supposedly had a serious allergy to dairy and eggs, (that his Mom said caused behavior problems and tummy upset) happily munching down an egg and cheese sandwich washed down with chocolate milk. He told me it no big deal, it doesn't give him a serious sickness just makes him joyful. and he added, my Dad lets my have it when I'm good. Dubious I let my boss know who freaked the fuck out and said he could've died! but dang it was out of my control - no warning he was coming to the self serve breakfast. I mean the diabetic kids and other kids same age with diet restrictions know to stay in their lane, and are very very aware of their condition. So what's up with Henry? Apparently behavior issues the parents attribute to dairy, and a Dr signed off so we make a special lunch for Henry. But what about breakfast, no guidance! Anyway he didn't die after eating eggs, cheese and milk, he didn't even go home that day, he might've ended up in the office. I felt for him, it seemed he was getting mixed messages about food and behavior IMO> Eventually he was taken out of school to be homeschooled.
Well, that's ONE way of keeping him out of the good stuff!
  #111  
Old 04-13-2019, 04:13 PM
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This is nonsense. Anger gives you energy. It tells your sympathetic nervous system to produce adrenaline, which provides you with excess energy. It actually takes more mental effort to shut down anger, whether by distraction or by deliberately calming down.

<snip>

Your description of the neighbor is inaccurate. She is not "trying to say thanks." She is attempting to control another person. She knows she is unwelcome, but persists in an attempt to make the person do what she wants them to do.

It is probably not attempted murder, since she likely does not believe Broomstick and thus has no intent of killing her. There's a possibility of assault, if she ever throws food at her or threatens to do that (or worse) at any point. But Broomstick's reluctance to be impolite suggests otherwise.

But she is definitely guilty of harassment, as well as possibly trespassing, assuming she attempts to give this food by entering Broomstick's property. Broomstick could, if she so chose, get a restraining order, though I would recommend attempting other ideas first.

Broomstick has no reason to listen to someone who has no idea what he is talking about and makes "recommendations" that are thinly veiled attacks.

There is a reason why you are the extreme minority in this thread. Even D'Anconia didn't go there. When even the troll knows that would be a step too far, maybe you should fine a clue. ....
Addressing the points of this post in somewhat random order ...

Point the last, my being a minority view being expressed should cause me to "fine a clue" ... not sure what the fine should be and how the clue should pay it, but in any case. Nah. Groupthink has little sway over me. Rational discussion does.

From the op
Quote:
I did my new downstairs neighbor a favor. I told her there was no need to repay me. She insists ...
Oddly from that I conclude that the neighbor's intent is to express gratitude. (And from the rest of the post that refusal to allow her to express thanks insulted her.)

Describing trying to insist on a gift (a very unwanted one) being accepted as "attempted murder", "assault", "harassment", or "trespass", is not supported by the facts as presented in the op. It is far over the top. There has been an unwanted knocking on the door at a time when the neighbor must surely know our op is asleep, and a stupid person not listening to someone who meant it when she said that she could not and would not accept an intended gift, and even more stupidly getting insulted and upset when it was made clear that "please do not give that; I won't take it" was not just being polite but very seriously meant.

The harm by taking the plate of food (which per the initial op may or may not have contained any allergens but which definitely should be declined when serious allergies exist) and tossing it so far has been described by one as the horror of being complicit in wasting a plate of food, the possibility of smelling food that offends in the garbage can, and the proposed prospect that the neighbor would see her going out with a bag of garbage and be able to X-ray vision that the bag contains the gift and then would attack her. I am a minority view in seeing that imagined scenario as over the top and as seeing those "harms" as trivial. Okay, I can live with that.

Your understanding of the physiology and "educating" me on such matters is cute. But very wrong.

Being acutely angry does overlap with the "fight or flight" response and a quick (and brief) surge of epinephrine. That is a surge that for most people lasts a minute or two, and can only be maintained by feeding new triggers, by actively stoking the emotional state. A normal person gets angry at the jerk who cut them off in traffic ... for minute or so ... and then it passes. Staying angry about it, stewing over it for many minutes or hours, thinking about it and getting angry days later, is pathological.

Anger sustained is a powerful sword that is costly to an individual to use. It raises stress hormones and as a general rule impedes rational analysis, but it also can motivate action that addresses serious root causes that otherwise would not be addressed.

Some people have baseline angry moods which lead them to experience the world as a place that offends them. Chronic anger is a major health risk.

Again, anger as brief flares is normal for us all. Sustained anger used to motivate actions for change can be powerful but using it comes at significant cost. Choosing to experience anger for more than that is an active conscious choice.


Last comment. I take the op's description of her food reactions as truth. I also make a comment that is applicable broadly, not to her. There are lots of people who believe they are zebras and unless proven otherwise their belief must be respected. The potential cost of incorrect disbelief is very high. Nevertheless the statistical reality is that majority of them are deluded horses. I would never not respect a reported allergy, food or otherwise, but this study still informs.

Take care all.

Last edited by DSeid; 04-13-2019 at 04:14 PM.
  #112  
Old 04-13-2019, 04:19 PM
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I'm allergic to cantaloupe. Makes the edges of my tongue, and the back back of my mouth quite sore. It's kind of a variable thing. Grocery store cantaloupe doesn't usually have any effect. It also lacks any flavor, of course, so it's a trade off.
This is a little off topic- but do you have pollen allergies? My son started to have swelling/ numbness of his lips, tongue and throat from eating all different types of fruit when he was about 14. Turns out it's a reaction to something in the fruit that's similar to the pollens he's allergic to. Funny thing is- it's only fresh fruits that cause a reaction. Frozen, cooked, canned- no reaction.
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Old 04-13-2019, 04:43 PM
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The only food allergy I have is to eggplant, and it's not a serious allergy. My mouth and throat itch. I feel like if I ate a lot of it, my throat might swell, but I've never eaten that much.

But I have a lot of food aversions. In particular, I won't eat anything in the capsicum family, except really fresh raw green pepper. Red pepper, cooked green pepper, hot pepper... Nope. And if you are eating a stuffed pepper, I'd prefer you not sit near me.

I carefully tell the waiter than I'm NOT allergic, though, because I don't want them to take allergy precautions for me. Worst case scenario, I take a bite of food, say "ICK", and stop eating it.
  #114  
Old 04-13-2019, 05:02 PM
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This is a little off topic- but do you have pollen allergies? My son started to have swelling/ numbness of his lips, tongue and throat from eating all different types of fruit when he was about 14. Turns out it's a reaction to something in the fruit that's similar to the pollens he's allergic to. Funny thing is- it's only fresh fruits that cause a reaction. Frozen, cooked, canned- no reaction.
With cantaloupe itís most often ragweed and grass that overlap.

Birch pollen allergy overlaps with oral reactions too but other foods.
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Old 04-13-2019, 05:11 PM
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From the opOddly from that I conclude that the neighbor's intent is to express gratitude. (And from the rest of the post that refusal to allow her to express thanks insulted her.)
I usually tell people who are having trouble thanking me that if they really, really feel they must do something a donation to a charity or a food kitchen in my name would be much appreciated.

Although at this point just not waking me up when I'm trying to sleep would be thanks enough.

Quote:
Describing trying to insist on a gift (a very unwanted one) being accepted as "attempted murder", "assault", "harassment", or "trespass", is not supported by the facts as presented in the op.
I just wish to clarify that I, the OP, was not the one who started the comparisons to "attempted murder", etc.

Quote:
Being acutely angry does overlap with the "fight or flight" response and a quick (and brief) surge of epinephrine. That is a surge that for most people lasts a minute or two, and can only be maintained by feeding new triggers, by actively stoking the emotional state.
What about when the provocation happens not once or twice but every day for several weeks, and on a few days multiple times in a day? Despite repeated requests to please stop the offending behavior? Aren't those "new triggers" that "actively stoke" the emotional state?
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Old 04-13-2019, 05:13 PM
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This is a little off topic- but do you have pollen allergies? My son started to have swelling/ numbness of his lips, tongue and throat from eating all different types of fruit when he was about 14. Turns out it's a reaction to something in the fruit that's similar to the pollens he's allergic to. Funny thing is- it's only fresh fruits that cause a reaction. Frozen, cooked, canned- no reaction.
Sounds like [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oral_allergy_syndrome]oral allergy syndrome[/i], which may or may not also be the problem Triskadecamus has.
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Old 04-13-2019, 05:24 PM
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I would never not respect a reported allergy, food or otherwise, but this study still informs.
How our food is cultivated, sourced, and prepared have changed dramatically since 2002. It would be interesting to see this study done now, seventeen years later.
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Old 04-13-2019, 06:51 PM
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How our food is cultivated, sourced, and prepared have changed dramatically since 2002. It would be interesting to see this study done now, seventeen years later.
Current numbers about the same. https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jam...rticle/2720064
At least for same thing looked at.

Broomstick yes continued repetitious offenses after multiple requests cannot be excused by simple ignorance or stupidity. Such requires clear limit setting.

Did you suggest that donation alternative to her when she told you she was going to make you food? That was not mentioned in the op.
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Old 04-13-2019, 07:54 PM
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I don't like beets.
I don't either. My kids for some reason thought that was so funny. They had the notion, at the ages of 5 and 3, that I love all foods (given that I will excitedly ingest almost any food I see, I can understand that). But their logic leapt to If there's a food Dad doesn't like he must really HATE it and "Y'know what, I bet Dad's AFRAID of beets!" "Yeah!" "Let's scare him with a can of beets." "Let's put it under his pillow!" "He'll be too scared to go to sleep!" "He'll wake us up with his screams!"

Many, many nights my pillow went clang!as my head hit it. I controlled myself so's not to wake anyone, but the next morning, I'd come downstairs with the can in a long pair of tongs or wrapped in a blanket, looking very afraid that it might get out before they could put it far, far away...
  #120  
Old 04-13-2019, 08:25 PM
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...What about when the provocation happens not once or twice but every day for several weeks, and on a few days multiple times in a day? Despite repeated requests to please stop the offending behavior? Aren't those "new triggers" that "actively stoke" the emotional state?
What the hell? This neighbor tries to give you unwanted food multiple times a day, for weeks? What's wrong with her?

I don't mean that rhetorically. She has some problem. Is she incredibly lonely? Does she have no memory? Is her only sense of self worth from feeding people?
  #121  
Old 04-13-2019, 09:00 PM
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I was trying to lighten things up with my previous post. But this whole situation is a real problem. Your neighbor has serious issues. Is there ANY chance of an intervention? Could it conclude with a written request that ends with "Do Not Feed. EVER."? Does she have a spouse or kids that you could include (or enlist help from... behind her back if necessary)?

I've heard stories from friends who get food pushed on them... often involves a relative trying to prove that there's love or a relationship between them. One story was from a college "study abroad" student. She was hosted by a family in Eastern Europe, and they spent a whole semester refusing to believe she was vegetarian and kept piling her plate with meat.

But your neighbor's tenacity paired with obliviousness is hard to believe. I hope she can realize what she's doing. Keep us posted.
  #122  
Old 04-14-2019, 01:01 AM
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Originally Posted by BigT View Post
I am, however, grateful for the gluten-free fad, as people who consume it voluntarily mean more for the rest of us. Just not when they say they have to be gluten free and then just pick stuff out of their food, or say "it's okay this once."
I'm also grateful for that fad as it's led to the development of a wide range of prepared foods catering to that market,which is helpful for me. No, I'm not allergic to gluten, or afflicted with celiac disease, but the stuff does give me headaches, stuffed-up sinuses, and overall coming-down-with-a-cold queasiness.

Why? Intolerance? Sensitivity? Evil wizard baker's curse? Damned if I know, but having figured out what was making me feel crappy and discovered how much better I feel without ingesting that stuff has been a blessing, and being able to find GF crackers, breads, etc. at the supermarket, or just say "Gluten-free, please" in restaurants, for example, and have it accepted as a matter of course without having to explain makes life so much easier.

Forcing food on someone who's told you they can't eat it is stupid, rude, even sadistic. As for slipping in the forbidden item to "prove" it's not a real problem but just fakery, well, that's downright criminal.
  #123  
Old 04-14-2019, 01:32 AM
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I cheated the other day. Y'see, my sensitivity to Red 40 just means i get itchy and sneezy, sso when they gave me dark cherry Jello I ate it and relished it and ignored the itchiness in my throat.
Yup, those of us with sensitivities rather than actual life-threatening allergies can occasionally cheat if we're prepared to accept the (nonlethal but still real) physical consequences. So on rare occasions I will have, say, a cup of lobster bisque, or a beer (but wouldn't risk a croissant, much as I miss them), normally in the privacy of my home, alone, knowing full well I will pay for it in a few-hour bout of feeling crappy but not become seriously ill.

Which is why, if questioned on why I'm GF, I'm careful to point out that I am NOT claiming an allergy or celiac disease; that no, I dunno why food X bothers me but it does so life is just better to avoid it. Fortunately the people in my life are all cool with respecting that level of explanation without demanding (a) any further explanation, or (b) that "Oh, go ahead, try it; you'll be fine, you'll love it!" They're also the kind of people who wouldn't dream of pushing food on someone who simply doesn't like it, no health issues involved.
  #124  
Old 04-14-2019, 03:25 AM
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Did you suggest that donation alternative to her when she told you she was going to make you food? That was not mentioned in the op.
Well, how long of a post do you want me to generate?

Yes, I suggested it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by puzzlegal View Post
What the hell? This neighbor tries to give you unwanted food multiple times a day, for weeks? What's wrong with her?

I don't mean that rhetorically. She has some problem. Is she incredibly lonely? Does she have no memory? Is her only sense of self worth from feeding people?
She is a widow, her kids live several states away, and about four months ago the house she was living in burned to the ground and she lost nearly everything. Which is how she wound up where she currently is. Even though she was physically unhurt I suspect that mentally she is not doing as well as she tries to make people think she is, which would account for some of the behavior as well as some of her bouts of drinking.

Haven't seen much of her lately - she does have a long-term boyfriend so maybe they're spending a lot of time together.
  #125  
Old 04-14-2019, 06:08 AM
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You know, DSeid, I finally figured out why your posts have been feeling off-rhythm to me here. It's like you're trying to analyse this situation as a problem that needs a solution, and trying to find a solution for me.

I didn't come here for a "solution" or an "answer". I came here to blow off steam.

I can't fix what's wrong with my neighbor and attempting to do so will only likely aggravate her or me or both. Not all problems have solutions, and not everyone talking about a problem wants you to fix their life.

Bitching here often keeps me from bitching at people in real life, where the bitching is more likely to be harmful than helpful. In other words, I don't need a fix, I just need someone to listen. That's all. No work required on my behalf.
  #126  
Old 04-14-2019, 12:26 PM
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Honestly my initial comment was not problem solving, for her or you. No work offered. As presented in the op the woman seemed to be of good intent albeit dense and stupid, intended no harm and caused you none either. (Okay subsequent posts inform of the harm of waking you up, but that is really a separate issue from the food item per se.) It just seems pretty molehillish.

I don't play in The Pit much but when I do, if a cause for a Pitting seems a bit weaksauce I'll say so, even if, really especially if, it is outside the groupthink ("me too" and "I agree" posts are more often not worth making), and get not at all bothered by suggestions regarding my sex life, untrue claims of being owned by a horse, or other very uncreative and boring insults. Really what happened to posters here at least putting some creative juices into their insults?! My dog has created piles of turds with more creativity and that don't stink so bad.

And the other posters' over the top portrayals of this woman's stupid but (other than interfering with your needed early bedtime) ultimately harmless and well-intended behaviors as a "trespass", "assault", even as "attempted murder"? Wow. That's some seriously disturbed thinking.

Posters vent here expecting affirmation. You got it mostly. Some here sound like they think the woman should be horribly punished for her horrific crimes against you. Not all Pit threads go that way.

One voice off of the affirmation rhythm just honestly sharing that he doesn't get the big deal? Better than many Pit threads go.
  #127  
Old 04-14-2019, 01:06 PM
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DSeid, you've time and again made it sound as if you believe it is Broomstick's DUTY to make her neighbor feel better.

From the bottom of a heart which spent 33 years turning itself into pretzels for someone who didn't deserve it:

KISS

MY

ASS


Broomstick is not responsible for her neighbor's happiness. But you're definitely responsible for being a jackass. Get off your high horse and eat it. Raw.
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  #128  
Old 04-14-2019, 01:47 PM
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Nope. Do not believe she has any obligation to make her neighbor feel anything or to help or to challenge that neighbor in any way. And don’t especially care that she is so annoyed. That’s her problem to solve or not.

Your past pretzel turning may be something you should get some therapy for if you have not already.

Not into analingus in any case and highly doubt that yours would appeal what with you being so full of shit. I will have to decline your offer.

Unless you mean a different sort of ass? In which I am still not interested but that high horse of mine, she might be at least interested in just coffee to start. Who knows where it might lead. Could be a mule in the future!

Last edited by DSeid; 04-14-2019 at 01:49 PM.
  #129  
Old 04-14-2019, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by DSeid View Post
Addressing the points of this post in somewhat random order ...

Point the last, my being a minority view being expressed should cause me to "fine a clue" ... not sure what the fine should be and how the clue should pay it, but in any case. Nah. Groupthink has little sway over me. Rational discussion does.

From the opOddly from that I conclude that the neighbor's intent is to express gratitude. (And from the rest of the post that refusal to allow her to express thanks insulted her.)

Describing trying to insist on a gift (a very unwanted one) being accepted as "attempted murder", "assault", "harassment", or "trespass", is not supported by the facts as presented in the op. It is far over the top. There has been an unwanted knocking on the door at a time when the neighbor must surely know our op is asleep, and a stupid person not listening to someone who meant it when she said that she could not and would not accept an intended gift, and even more stupidly getting insulted and upset when it was made clear that "please do not give that; I won't take it" was not just being polite but very seriously meant.

The harm by taking the plate of food (which per the initial op may or may not have contained any allergens but which definitely should be declined when serious allergies exist) and tossing it so far has been described by one as the horror of being complicit in wasting a plate of food, the possibility of smelling food that offends in the garbage can, and the proposed prospect that the neighbor would see her going out with a bag of garbage and be able to X-ray vision that the bag contains the gift and then would attack her. I am a minority view in seeing that imagined scenario as over the top and as seeing those "harms" as trivial. Okay, I can live with that.

Your understanding of the physiology and "educating" me on such matters is cute. But very wrong.

Being acutely angry does overlap with the "fight or flight" response and a quick (and brief) surge of epinephrine. That is a surge that for most people lasts a minute or two, and can only be maintained by feeding new triggers, by actively stoking the emotional state. A normal person gets angry at the jerk who cut them off in traffic ... for minute or so ... and then it passes. Staying angry about it, stewing over it for many minutes or hours, thinking about it and getting angry days later, is pathological.

Anger sustained is a powerful sword that is costly to an individual to use. It raises stress hormones and as a general rule impedes rational analysis, but it also can motivate action that addresses serious root causes that otherwise would not be addressed.

Some people have baseline angry moods which lead them to experience the world as a place that offends them. Chronic anger is a major health risk.

Again, anger as brief flares is normal for us all. Sustained anger used to motivate actions for change can be powerful but using it comes at significant cost. Choosing to experience anger for more than that is an active conscious choice.


Last comment. I take the op's description of her food reactions as truth. I also make a comment that is applicable broadly, not to her. There are lots of people who believe they are zebras and unless proven otherwise their belief must be respected. The potential cost of incorrect disbelief is very high. Nevertheless the statistical reality is that majority of them are deluded horses. I would never not respect a reported allergy, food or otherwise, but this study still informs.

Take care all.
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Originally Posted by DSeid View Post
With cantaloupe itís most often ragweed and grass that overlap.

Birch pollen allergy overlaps with oral reactions too but other foods.
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Originally Posted by Broomstick View Post
Well, how long of a post do you want me to generate?

Yes, I suggested it.


She is a widow, her kids live several states away, and about four months ago the house she was living in burned to the ground and she lost nearly everything. Which is how she wound up where she currently is. Even though she was physically unhurt I suspect that mentally she is not doing as well as she tries to make people think she is, which would account for some of the behavior as well as some of her bouts of drinking.

Haven't seen much of her lately - she does have a long-term boyfriend so maybe they're spending a lot of time together.
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Originally Posted by DSeid View Post
Honestly my initial comment was not problem solving, for her or you. No work offered. As presented in the op the woman seemed to be of good intent albeit dense and stupid, intended no harm and caused you none either. (Okay subsequent posts inform of the harm of waking you up, but that is really a separate issue from the food item per se.) It just seems pretty molehillish.

I don't play in The Pit much but when I do, if a cause for a Pitting seems a bit weaksauce I'll say so, even if, really especially if, it is outside the groupthink ("me too" and "I agree" posts are more often not worth making), and get not at all bothered by suggestions regarding my sex life, untrue claims of being owned by a horse, or other very uncreative and boring insults. Really what happened to posters here at least putting some creative juices into their insults?! My dog has created piles of turds with more creativity and that don't stink so bad.

And the other posters' over the top portrayals of this woman's stupid but (other than interfering with your needed early bedtime) ultimately harmless and well-intended behaviors as a "trespass", "assault", even as "attempted murder"? Wow. That's some seriously disturbed thinking.

Posters vent here expecting affirmation. You got it mostly. Some here sound like they think the woman should be horribly punished for her horrific crimes against you. Not all Pit threads go that way.

One voice off of the affirmation rhythm just honestly sharing that he doesn't get the big deal? Better than many Pit threads go.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSeid View Post
Nope. Do not believe she has any obligation to make her neighbor feel anything or to help or to challenge that neighbor in any way. And donít especially care that she is so annoyed. Thatís her problem to solve or not.

Your past pretzel turning may be something you should get some therapy for if you have not already.

Not into analingus in any case and highly doubt that yours would appeal what with you being so full of shit. I will have to decline your offer.

Unless you mean a different sort of ass? In which I am still not interested but that high horse of mine, she might be at least interested in just coffee to start. Who knows where it might lead. Could be a mule in the future!
Bored now.
  #130  
Old 04-14-2019, 05:17 PM
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Well it is not the most exciting discussion and I honestly have been mildly perplexed to amused by the very strong reactions to my posts and the number of people who think that grave crimes have been inflicted upon our op. But you included the bit about oral allergy syndrome and that, independent of this thread, is very interesting and something that people should know about. Allergy testing can come back negative for the foods that cause the reactions and awareness of the condition and of which foods more commonly cross react to which pollens is needed along with a good history. doreen's observations are right on the money too. It can be avoided if the foods are cooked or canned or sometimes even just peeled.

But thanks for sharing!

(No question that one has to be bored indeed that one spends their time cutting and pasting multiple posts to say how bored one is with no contribution or even zinger to make... maybe you should read a book or stream a show? Or start a more interesting thread!)
  #131  
Old 04-15-2019, 01:16 PM
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I'm a bit lost now. Who is owned BY a horse? Can I sign up? I always wanted my own pony as a child; this seems close enough.

Broomstick, is she knocking on your door? If so, don't answer. Do not open. (Doesn't help you being woken up, granted. That does indeed suck donkey balls.) I'd play YouTube of the most disturbing audio I could find, cranked up to 11 placed right at the door every time she knocked (nothing that sounds like she needs to send cops over on a wellness check!! Try the "game of thrones" theme by screaming goats, for starters) but yeah, I'm bitchy like that. Maybe you're just a nicer person.

Or maybe have goats scream the GoT theme at her whenever she knocks.

Or just vent to us. SOME of us will listen, without offering useless suggestions.

Me? Nah. I'll suggest goats, because hopefully that made you smile.

(Vent away. Your neighbor sounds like a PITA.)
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  #132  
Old 04-15-2019, 09:22 PM
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And the other posters' over the top portrayals of this woman's stupid but (other than interfering with your needed early bedtime) ultimately harmless and well-intended behaviors as a "trespass", "assault", even as "attempted murder"? Wow. That's some seriously disturbed thinking.
You say you want rational argument, but here you are engaging in ad hominem and appeals to emotion. None of this is rational.

You admit that the woman got insulted because Broomstick was not accepting of her gift. That means she is no longer thankful. Her insistence is now about correcting that wrong and forcing her to accept the gift.

She does this by repeatedly coming over to Broomstick's house when she is unwanted. That is by definition trespassing. If someone has told you that you are not welcome on your property and they come over anyways, they are trespassing.

The definition of harassment is also relevant: Harassment, under the laws of the United States, is defined as any repeated or continuing un-consented contact that serves no useful purpose beyond creating alarm, annoyance, or emotional distress. The description clearly fits. She is repeatedly engaging in un-consented contact that serves no useful purpose other than annoyance.

My claims are factually true. You can't rebut them, so you attack my personal mental health. That is a morally repugnant action.

Your claims about anger are just completely fictional. People do not choose how they feel. People have to learn to accept their feelings,and not try to control them. That's basic mindfulness and third level cognitive behavioral therapy. You're addressing people in this thread who have actually been in therapy and know what we're talking about.

As for anger: if you can simply choose not to feel it, and never continue it, then why have you expressed anger multiple times in this thread?For example, the ad hominem I already mentioned. Attacking someone by saying they have a mental issue is an act of anger.

It sure seems to me that you don't have this choice not to be angry. You suppress your anger, and it comes out even when you're not trying for it to. You're clearly trying to portray yourself as infinitely calm, per you statement that you don't waste time being angry.

I tried to give you some leeway, saying that sometimes it is best to just calm down. But you attacked me over that, too, calling my lecture "cute." Your response to me was full of angry. But you say you can simply choose not to be angry.

That just isn't how it works. Emotions persist. And you can continue persisting in your ignorance, or become more introspective.

Either way, if you engage in this behavior again of belittling the legitimate concerns of others with irrational bullshit, you will be called out again. Maybe you won't listen to logic and reason, but you've admitted that you don't bother when it takes too much energy.

You aren't being attacked for being different. You're being attacked for your jerkish behavior.

Last edited by BigT; 04-15-2019 at 09:25 PM.
  #133  
Old 04-15-2019, 11:21 PM
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I just feel genuinely sorry for you people. I can't imagine how horrible it would be to have to question every meal everywhere. Ughh.
  #134  
Old 04-16-2019, 02:50 AM
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Your kindly neighbor sounds passive-aggressive to me. You TOLD her you were deathly allergic to many foods and asked directly but politely not to cook for you...and she does anyway. She knows you get up very early for work but continues to pound on your door in the evening. Translation: Don't you tell ME what to do!

Two thoughts:

1) Ask her to "pay it forward" by giving food to another neighbor. If she's a bad cook...does D'Ancona live anywhere near you?

2) Tell her your doctor has put you on strong sleep medication, and you won't hear her if she knocks after 7 PM. She may try a time or two, but surely she'll stop then. If not, you could try pounding on her door on your way to work. "Just wanted to remind you I can't eat most foods!"

And WTF is it with her dropping in? Who does that today? The modern rule of etiquette is to call first.
  #135  
Old 04-16-2019, 05:15 AM
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I just feel genuinely sorry for you people. I can't imagine how horrible it would be to have to question every meal everywhere. Ughh.
Well, in my own kitchen it's a lot safer. Which is why I like to eat in my own home a lot of the time.

The local Jewish community is talking about inviting me for Passover seder and I'm trying not to be anxious about it. On the other hand, the fact I have a restricted diet is well known there and if any random person is going to be good at avoiding cross-contamination "someone who keeps kosher" is probably high on the list. "I have to avoid tomatoes like you have to avoid pork - in any form or amount down to microscopic" "Oh, OK."

Anyhow, back when I used to fly homebuilt airplanes people would ask if it was dangerous. Well, sort of, but really, I would say, the most dangerous thing I do is eat in restaurants. Which in my case is the truth.
  #136  
Old 04-16-2019, 05:17 AM
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Your kindly neighbor sounds passive-aggressive to me. You TOLD her you were deathly allergic to many foods and asked directly but politely not to cook for you...and she does anyway. She knows you get up very early for work but continues to pound on your door in the evening. Translation: Don't you tell ME what to do!
Yeah. My mother-in-law had tendencies like that. On the other hand, my mother-in-law lived several hundred miles away, not downstairs, so when we had enough of each other one of us went home.

I did try the "pay it forward" thing, which I'm a big fan of. Didn't seem to work.

Quote:
And WTF is it with her dropping in? Who does that today? The modern rule of etiquette is to call first.
She's in her late 80's and still thinks it's 1955?
  #137  
Old 04-16-2019, 07:11 AM
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And WTF is it with her dropping in? Who does that today? The modern rule of etiquette is to call first.
ISTM that modern day etiquette is to text first to find out if one is accepting phone calls, THEN calling.
  #138  
Old 04-16-2019, 09:28 AM
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And you're a feculent little nugget of billy goat smegma trying to pass yourself off as artisanal cheese.
I'm trying to think if I've ever heard a more impressive insult, but even some of Monty Python's better attempts fall short.
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Originally Posted by Ukulele Ike View Post
But what if itís green eggs and ham?

You do not like them, so you say. Try them! Try them! And you may.
Sam-I-Am is a genuinely appalling character. Seriously, WTF was Dr. Seuss thinking? The real moral of this story is that it's OK to refuse to take 'No' for an answer, no matter how frequently, and how politely but firmly, the 'No' is given.
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Originally Posted by Broomstick View Post
Yeah, you know, it doesn't matter if it's an actual allergy or an intolerance or smelly farts the next day or whatever - if something causes you a problem every time you eat it then it's your right not to have to eat it.

I don't know why this is rocket science for so many people.
Indeed. Meghan Trainor didn't have food in mind, but nonetheless, I'll hand the mic to her:

My name is no
My sign is no
My number is no
You need to let it go
You need to let it go
Need to let it go


Doesn't matter whether it's someone's dick or someone's food, you've got the right to decide what can and can't go in your body.
  #139  
Old 04-16-2019, 11:38 AM
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I'm trying to think if I've ever heard a more impressive insult, but even some of Monty Python's better attempts fall short.
Thanks, it's original to me at least, and created in response to the visceral feelings engendered by that particular poster.

Which makes it quite rare, in that most of my bon mots are stolen from someone else.

Last edited by Qadgop the Mercotan; 04-16-2019 at 11:38 AM.
  #140  
Old 04-16-2019, 08:02 PM
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This is a little off topic- but do you have pollen allergies? . . swelling/ numbness of his lips, tongue and throat from eating all different types of fruit when he was about 14.
I had lots of pollen allergies at 14. In the intervening sixty years they mostly of faded out. I still get red eyes in the spring. Never had problems with fruit other than cantaloupe. I like more fruits than I dislike. The cantaloupe thing has remained more or less the same.

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  #141  
Old 04-16-2019, 11:35 PM
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BigT it is not attacking your mental health to point out that a particular line of your (and some others') thinking is very disturbed and distorted. As is your complete last post. Seriously, knocking on someone's door, even if you know they are asleep and that you are bothering them, is not "trespassing". The woman did not force her way onto our op's property. Very very seriously I think you probably should not play in the Pit if even that mild line is experienced as so hurtful by you.

FWIW I would never claim that I do not get angry ... or as annoyed as fuck. There have been times interacting on these boards that I have gotten both, briefly, and more in real life. This thread's interactions? Zero anger at all or even annoyance. No insult to you or anyone intended by that; there's just nothing here that ranks. Angry for more than a few minutes at a time, sustained anger? In my most important relationships that has happened (and I believe I am not alone in recognizing that that sort of anger usually has its origins in hurt first, with the hurt being what keeps feeding the anger, and is dysfunctional anger) and on occasion as a tool to functionally drive me to accomplish some goal. Putting it most simplistically I believe that dysfunctional anger can be controlled - by identifying the reason for the hurt that feeds it and addressing the hurt's root causes. And that functional anger is a tool we choose to use making a decision that its cost is worth its benefits.

I am fine with a continued discussion about anger and whether or not we have any choice over how we feel (ignoring the Free Will debate aspects!) and your contention that people "have to learn to accept their feelings, and not try to control them" but it really belongs outside of The Pit and was not something I meant to take over as the focus of this thread. If you want to open up a different thread please tell me where you put it. If you want to open up a Pit thread to Pit me, please also do the same. Also despite your belief that your having been in therapy makes you an expert, not all therapeutic, inclusive of CBT ones, approaches are as you've experienced your therapy.

In any case I am sorry that what I said has apparently hurt you. I will try to be more mindful that some who play in the Pit are still very sensitive in various ways.

Take care.
  #142  
Old 04-16-2019, 11:47 PM
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... Seriously, WTF was Dr. Seuss thinking? The real moral of this story is that it's OK to refuse to take 'No' for an answer, no matter how frequently, and how politely but firmly, the 'No' is given. ...
Are you whooshing or serious here?

You do realize that Green Eggs and Ham was a children's book, usually read together with the parent. Most of us who have dealt with kids, even if we have not been parents, are very familiar with preschoolers and early school aged kids going through phases of refusing to even try anything other than a very limited variety of foods, and parents being driven crazy by the kid's refusal to even give it a taste to see if they'd like it. Biggest group to be refused of course is anything that is green (which in the real world generally means it's a vegetable).

Have you really never got that it was these inane battles over trying to get their children to at least taste a vegetable that was being played with, both making gentle fun of the parents' persistence and encouraging the kid to give a chance and maybe just maybe they might like it after all even though it is green and/or looks funny?

I really don't think #metoo (or food allergy awareness) is well served by hitting on Green Eggs and Ham!

Last edited by DSeid; 04-16-2019 at 11:48 PM.
  #143  
Old 04-17-2019, 07:46 AM
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Or, you might have just whooshed yourself in front of the teeming millions. Don't worry, that's be done before.

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  #144  
Old 04-17-2019, 11:41 AM
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It is indeed harder for me to tell of late. Are you sure RTF isn't serious?
  #145  
Old 04-17-2019, 11:59 AM
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Yeah, I can be hard to read sometimes. Sorry about that.

But I'm serious about Green Eggs and Ham. And reading it as a child (no one read it to me, I was already reading on my own before it came out), I absorbed the intended message: you really might like that disgusting-looking food.

But then a few decades passed before I read it to the Firebug for the first time, and my instant reaction was, "how often does this kid need to be told 'No'?" He runs through all the stop signs, over and over again, refusing to take 'No' for an answer, just because he thinks the grumpy guy should try green eggs and ham. Which is exactly the sort of bad behavior that the OP has been experiencing as a problem.

(Between The Cat in the Hat and Sam-I-Am, you've got two of Dr. Seuss' most beloved characters who are, quite frankly, assholes. But I digress.)
  #146  
Old 04-17-2019, 12:32 PM
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Perhaps--PERHAPS--my use of "attempted murder" was hyperbolic, but that's how I'd play it. Shouting, "I told you I'm deathly allergic to more foods than I can list, so why are forcing this shit on me? ARE YOU TRYING TO KILL ME?!?!?" loudly enough that the whole complex can hear would be effective. And I'm loving knocking on her door at 4:30AM.

Last edited by dropzone; 04-17-2019 at 12:35 PM.
  #147  
Old 04-17-2019, 12:52 PM
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Your neighbor sounds like an asshole for multiple reasons. What's curious to me is that she seems to be going out of her way to inconvenience herself when following your wishes would be so much easier.

I'm sorry you were "blessed" with a douchebag like her. It doesn't help any, but I feel obligated to offer an anecdote. It's entitled, "How to get out of eating meat the hard way," by overly.

We're mostly vegetarian in my household. I don't make a huge effort not to eat meat, but by preference we don't eat much of it. I don't make a thing of it, though, since it's not a lifestyle choice or medical condition, but I do tell people who ask that we prefer not to eat it. Anyway, my mom was visiting and offered to cook dinner. I let her know we don't eat much meat, which I think she took for, "OMG, I really need some meat" (which would've come out wrong, and that's one reason I'm glad I didn't say that).

So I get home to find that mom had made the most fucking enormous meatloaf I've ever encountered. I mean, it was monstrous. Like, "holy shit, how many cows went into this damn thing?" large.

Anyway, we all had some. Fast forward to the middle of the night when we're all awakened by super loud vomiting noises. I run down the hall and find my daughter standing around, looking completely flummoxed, glancing back & forth between the vomit she'd accidentally gotten on the wall and that she had cupped in her hands as she tried to get to the bathroom to be sick. It looked a hell of a lot like meatloaf. It was probably a virus rather than allergy since she had a fever. But it did get us out of ever having to eat loaves of meat again.

So maybe the OP can just barf on her doorstep? Or have someone else safely regurgitate the food and return it at 4:30 a.m.?
  #148  
Old 04-17-2019, 01:34 PM
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This might be partly a gendered thing--women experience more boundary transgressions than men do, on average, and after a lifetime of it we get pretty fucking sick of people who won't take a plain old "no" for an answer. Pardon us if we occasionally feel like punching the next person who urges us to do something we've stated we're not going to do right in their stupid face and occasionally dare to express our frustration with them.
  #149  
Old 04-17-2019, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nelliebly View Post

... And WTF is it with her dropping in? Who does that today? The modern rule of etiquette is to call first.
FWIW I would count myself as among those who rudely break that apparent rule of etiquette with neighbors. Mind you I'm not so neighborly but when someone moved in on the block I would knock on their door with a welcome bottle of wine or plate of brownies. (Could have been doubly rude - they could have been recovering alcoholics or allergic to chocolate!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmartAleq View Post
This might be partly a gendered thing--women experience more boundary transgressions than men do, on average, and after a lifetime of it we get pretty fucking sick of people who won't take a plain old "no" for an answer. Pardon us if we occasionally feel like punching the next person who urges us to do something we've stated we're not going to do right in their stupid face and occasionally dare to express our frustration with them.
Maybe partly gendered as a thing but I don't think completely. My guess though is also that it has something to do with what sets off or does not set off buttons of hurt based on other past experiences, on personal histories, some of which might be gender related. I get that I am in the minority in this thread that would not experience this elderly woman's behavior, at least the part of insisting on giving a plate of food over objections, as horrific. And that some find my expressed lack of horror at it to be very jerkish and assholeish.
  #150  
Old 04-17-2019, 03:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSeid View Post
FWIW I would count myself as among those who rudely break that apparent rule of etiquette with neighbors. Mind you I'm not so neighborly but when someone moved in on the block I would knock on their door with a welcome bottle of wine or plate of brownies. (Could have been doubly rude - they could have been recovering alcoholics or allergic to chocolate!)
If the new neighbors had told you they were allergic/alcoholic, would you have come back the next day with more brownies and wine? Broomstick wasn't rude the first X times her neighbor offered her food.
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