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Old 05-30-2019, 06:26 PM
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Good Omens - Amazon Prime adaptation by Neil Gaiman


Gaiman has talked about how he made this show to honor Terry Pratchett. He went all in as well. Showrunner and wrote all 6 episodes.

It hits Amazon Prime streaming tonight, I think, and I've been looking forward to it for awhile.

Anyone else looking forward to it? Thoughts?
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Old 05-30-2019, 06:53 PM
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Note: It is indeed online here on the East Coast. I thought it hit at midnight tonight, but it is almost 8 PM and it is online through Amazon Prime.

Will watch first one tonight for sure.
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Old 05-30-2019, 06:58 PM
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OOoo! SQUEE!

I thought it wouldn't be here until tomorrow!

::: scampers off :::
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Old 05-30-2019, 07:41 PM
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We're not going to watch until this weekend, but it isn't like I don't know what happens. I know Neil
SPOILER:
changed the ending somewhat,
but I trust him.
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Old 05-30-2019, 08:34 PM
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Nice inside joke with Arthur Young referring to Crowley as "Doctor"....
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Old 05-31-2019, 01:17 PM
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I'm cautiously looking forward to this. I love Pratchett to death and have mixed-to-positive opinions on Gaiman's work. Good Omens was never really a personal favorite, though; I think it's good fun but doesn't QUITE have either the vivid characters I love Pratchett for or the intricate storytelling and world-building I love in Gaiman.

At the same time, it's also one of Pratchett's works that I'm least precious about, which means that enjoying the show on its own merits is a lot more likely.
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Old 05-31-2019, 05:31 PM
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I'm willing to give it a shot, but the book was mostly dull.
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Old 05-31-2019, 05:42 PM
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I'm 2 episodes in and loving it so far. I'm noticing a few slight tweaks, but they're to the good I think.
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Old 05-31-2019, 06:02 PM
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I liked the first episode, but was also not a huge fan of the book. Very overrated, hoping the adaptation improves it.

OK, the baby swap. Explain it to me.

1. Antichrist went to regular family. Named Adam.

2. Regular baby went to family where he was influenced by Demon/Angel. Named Warlock.

3. Third baby is who and what happened to him/her?

I honestly forget.
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Old 05-31-2019, 06:37 PM
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3rd baby:

SPOILER:
What happened to him? The authors aren't specific. They imply that he had a normal childhood, raised fish and liked model planes. "If it makes you feel any better..." as they put it.
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Old 05-31-2019, 07:39 PM
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3rd baby:

SPOILER:
What happened to him? The authors aren't specific. They imply that he had a normal childhood, raised fish and liked model planes. "If it makes you feel any better..." as they put it.
SPOILER:
In the book, it was more or less outright stated (in a footnote) that the 3rd baby became the child known as Greasy Johnson.
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Old 05-31-2019, 08:11 PM
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Which is only fitting.
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Old 05-31-2019, 08:25 PM
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I was hoping I'd like it more because it brings together things I like a lot to varying degrees. I enjoy Gaiman, I love Pterry, and I am celebrating my 25th anniversary in this waning month of my devotion to my #1 all-time fave, Tori Amos. (She did the song over the closing credits of the final episode. That episode also featured a reference to one of her songs so I was doubly happy).

I wouldn't give it an A+, but it was an enjoyable way to spend a lazy day. A solid B+. Definitely something I'd recommend to the sort of person I think would like it, but not a general recommendation.

There were some changes from the books, but like typoink, it wasn't one I am super protective of and Neil himself made those changes. I wasn't like "That's NOT what happens!" at all and usually I'm a major book snob. I easily got over it here. So at least I learned I can appreciated an adaptation that isn't 100% faithful.

I spent a good chunk of this week crying my eyes out reading things about Pratchett. There's a quote about how neither of them will believe an adaptation will occur until they're sitting in a theater with popcorn and people put his hat and scarf and a bag of popcorn in a reserved seat at the premier and I just lost it. Plus it's getting a lot of Pterry fans to shout their love and it's bittersweet... kind of like him.

GNU, Pterry.
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Old 05-31-2019, 11:23 PM
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Overall it was pretty good, and was reasonably faithful to the book, there were a couple of very minor points I wish were included, like when Crowley was "feeding"* the ducks in the park pond, and I wish the Other Four Bikers of the Apocalypse were there, and the throwaway gag line describing CHOW**









* Crowley tosses some "bread" to the ducks, the density of the bread causes the ducks to immediately sink under the water, then bob back up looking very disturbed and annoyed (in a ducky way)

**It had the nutritional equivalent of a Sony Walkman
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Old 05-31-2019, 11:34 PM
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In the last episode, towards the end:

SPOILER:
In the bookstore, the camera lingered over a series of books (that reminded me of The Hardy Boys), and the angel made a remark about them being new. I didn't get it. What did I miss about the books?
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Old 06-01-2019, 01:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Face Intentionally Left Blank View Post
In the last episode, towards the end:

SPOILER:
In the bookstore, the camera lingered over a series of books (that reminded me of The Hardy Boys), and the angel made a remark about them being new. I didn't get it. What did I miss about the books?
SPOILER:
Adam "put things back", but some things were a bit different. Instead of Aziraphale's bookstore stocking first editions of bibles and books of prophecy, it had complete first editions of vintage childrens' adventure stories. So while the books were vintage (and not new by reason of age) they were not stock he'd ever carried before, so they were new (to him and in the store).

I think I rather like the bit of change Gaiman introduced at the end. It made more sense, since neither side struck me as the sort to just let things go unless something really made them back off. I did miss the Four Other Horsemen, but this was pretty danged crowded with events and 6 hours long already; they didn't really add anything to the story, so cutting them out didn't really change anything.

Really, the only two things that irked me were the completely anachronistic armor that Crowley and Aziraphale were wearing (for a very short period of time) and that Death just ... well, Death really wasn't all that impressive. I expected ... more. A darker voice. Something.
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Old 06-01-2019, 09:45 AM
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I think I rather like the bit of change Gaiman introduced at the end. It made more sense, since neither side struck me as the sort to just let things go unless something really made them back off. I did miss the Four Other Horsemen, but this was pretty danged crowded with events and 6 hours long already; they didn't really add anything to the story, so cutting them out didn't really change anything.

Really, the only two things that irked me were the completely anachronistic armor that Crowley and Aziraphale were wearing (for a very short period of time) and that Death just ... well, Death really wasn't all that impressive. I expected ... more. A darker voice. Something.
I haven't read the book. I'm guessing from context that the change Neil made was:
SPOILER:
At the end, when they masqueraded as each other to avoid the death by holy water/hellfire. I very much liked that bit. I admit to being fooled: They hung around each other so much and were so influenced by each other, I thought they HAD changed enough that the fire/water wouldn't hurt them.
After watching The Colour of Magic, I think I'll always hear Pratchett's, "Death" as Christopher Lee. They should have given that role to Benedict Cumberbatch. Any deep, processed, booming voice would have done for The Devil.

As for the books:
SPOILER:
Thanks for explaining that. I like that Adam would put loved children's books in place of the religious and prophecy texts.

Finally, I was disappointed when Anathema:
SPOILER:
Burned the prophecies. Wouldn't Agnes have predicted that and not bothered to write them? Also, that hurts the sequel possibilities, though I guess they never wrote a follow-up to the first book, and Neil probably didn't want more of it made without Terry's help/input.
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Old 06-01-2019, 10:01 AM
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Re: Anathema:
SPOILER:

I feel it was in keeping with the "test to destruction...but not really" theme.
Burning the books was the same as Adam choosing to be on the side of the humans.
Free will triumphs over predestination.
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Old 06-01-2019, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Face Intentionally Left Blank View Post
In the last episode, towards the end:

SPOILER:
In the bookstore, the camera lingered over a series of books (that reminded me of The Hardy Boys), and the angel made a remark about them being new. I didn't get it. What did I miss about the books?


Just FYI:

SPOILER:
The book series was Biggles. British adventure series.

At least it was in the novel. I've not seen the TV version, but I'm assuming it's the same.
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Old 06-01-2019, 10:23 AM
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And (not like it matters) Aziraphale knows what they are worth. An Imperial shit-ton.
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Old 06-01-2019, 10:35 AM
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And (not like it matters) Aziraphale knows what they are worth. An Imperial shit-ton.

How much is that in farthings ?
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Old 06-01-2019, 10:36 AM
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I haven't read the book. I'm guessing from context that the change Neil made was:
SPOILER:
At the end, when they masqueraded as each other to avoid the death by holy water/hellfire. I very much liked that bit. I admit to being fooled: They hung around each other so much and were so influenced by each other, I thought they HAD changed enough that the fire/water wouldn't hurt them.
Yes, it was, and I wondered the same. I saw an interview where Neil said it was possible to see them do it, but that it was subtle. I may have to watch again to see if I can catch it. Such a hardship.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Face Intentionally Left Blank
After watching The Colour of Magic, I think I'll always hear Pratchett's, "Death" as Christopher Lee. They should have given that role to Benedict Cumberbatch. Any deep, processed, booming voice would have done for The Devil.
They already had Benedict for Satan, though. I think he'd have made a better Death, myself, but it's not like I was consulted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Face Intentionally Left Blank
As for the books:
SPOILER:
Thanks for explaining that. I like that Adam would put loved children's books in place of the religious and prophecy texts.

Finally, I was disappointed when Anathema:
SPOILER:
Burned the prophecies. Wouldn't Agnes have predicted that and not bothered to write them? Also, that hurts the sequel possibilities, though I guess they never wrote a follow-up to the first book, and Neil probably didn't want more of it made without Terry's help/input.
That last bit happened in the book, too, actually. And Agnes did anticipate it. I think it was her way of letting her descendents free themselves by choice.
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Old 06-01-2019, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
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That last bit happened in the book, too, actually. And Agnes did anticipate it. I think it was her way of letting her descendents free themselves by choice.
As Newt said in the book
SPOILER:
"Do you want to be a descendant all your life?"
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Old 06-01-2019, 11:59 PM
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Just finished. Liked it overall, but I thought the voiceover was kind of kludgy. And if they insisted on having it, it should have been Gaiman.
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Old 06-02-2019, 12:33 AM
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I like the voiceover. *shrug*
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Old 06-02-2019, 12:38 AM
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Did anybody else catch, during the scene where Crowley had all the pages from the planetary atlas flying around his head, that one of them was
SPOILER:

Gallifrey?

I thought that was a nice touch!
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Old 06-02-2019, 01:04 AM
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No, but I noticed him leave a phone booth that was a bit similar to the TARDIS.
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Old 06-02-2019, 06:11 AM
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No, but I noticed him leave a phone booth that was a bit similar to the TARDIS.
Adam's father's car had a license plate of SID RAT.
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Old 06-02-2019, 10:36 AM
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Adam's father's car had a license plate of SID RAT.
Ha, I missed that. I'm trying to figure out why the license plate on the Bentley said NAIT RUC, though. Am I missing something relevant about "Curtain"?
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Old 06-02-2019, 10:41 AM
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Adam's father's car had a license plate of SID RAT.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Infovore View Post
Ha, I missed that. I'm trying to figure out why the license plate on the Bentley said NAIT RUC, though. Am I missing something relevant about "Curtain"?
I noticed Adam's father's car's license plate, although I'm not entirely certain what it refers to. I didn't see Crowley's at all, but maybe it's a reference to the phrase "It's curtains for you!". You know, the end of all things. Or maybe it's the curtain that hides the truth, like in the Wizard of Oz?
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Old 06-02-2019, 11:53 AM
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I noticed Adam's father's car's license plate, although I'm not entirely certain what it refers to.
It's a Doctor Who reference. A SIDRAT is a box that has some of the powers of the TARDIS, but not as good.

It should have been David Tennant's license plate, though.
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Old 06-02-2019, 11:57 AM
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Maybe it was a reference to somebody's shower curtain.
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Old 06-02-2019, 12:22 PM
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Space in Dimension Relative and Time?
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Old 06-02-2019, 01:12 PM
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Space and Inter-time Dimensional Robot All-purpose Transporter, according to Malcolm Hulke's novelization of the story. Never actually explained onscreen. Bssically, it's just TARDIS backwards.
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Old 06-02-2019, 01:14 PM
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Space in Dimension Relative and Time?
Space Is a Dimension Relative Analogous to Time
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Old 06-02-2019, 03:29 PM
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I haven't reread the book in a few years and I had been debating whether to reread before watching, now I'm glad I didn't. I remembered the storyline but not many details so I didn't spend any time thinking about the differences. I thought it was amusing that the guard at the gate was reading "American Gods". I guess they figured that if he had been reading "Good Omens" the show might have entered some infinite loop and they would have gone way over budget.
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Old 06-02-2019, 03:36 PM
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It's a Doctor Who reference. A SIDRAT is a box that has some of the powers of the TARDIS, but not as good.

It should have been David Tennant's license plate, though.
So it's smaller on the inside?
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Old 06-02-2019, 03:40 PM
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I did reread the book in anticipation of the series. One thing I noticed about the gate guard--in the book, the low-rank military were using convoluted "cop speak." The guard used only one fake word, which seemed kinda weird if you didn't already know what they were trying to express.
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Old 06-03-2019, 10:33 AM
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I will never again be satisfied by ANY adaptation of a written work to the screen. This was perfect- no sacrifices of story. I absolutely loved it, my son loved it, and he now wants to read the book- so it is definitely not just for those who are already fans of the novel.

Why, WHY could American Gods not have been done a quarter as well as this was?
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Old 06-03-2019, 10:55 AM
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So I've seen the whole series and here are some thoughts:

- Absolutely loved the opening credit design and music.

- Tennant and Sheen are, frankly, brilliant in this. Really really good. In fact, watching them alone justifies watching the series.

- A surprisingly strong (and suspiciously expensive) supporting cast. I don't know what Jon Hamm or Frances McDormand cost these days but it's probably not cheap. I had doubts about the casting of McKean and Whitehall but actually I thought both acquitted themselves well. And Josie Lawrence is a perfect Nutter. The kids were a little stiff but whatcha gonna do.

- I had fun with spot-the-voiceover-artist and laughed out loud at Nicholas Parsons channelling Dagon (if you don't know who Parsons is, I can't explain why it's funny) and Andy Hamilton as a luckless demon (who should have been named Scumspawn). One I didn't catch due to alteration was the voice of Satan himself, who only had a few lines at the end, spoken by Benedict Cumberbatch. Also, we got the Floating Head of Derek Jacobi as the Metatron (most of the Metatron's lines from the book went to Hamm's Gabriel) which I thought was gratuitous but mildly amusing.

- I didn't mind most of the changes from the book (I mean, I missed the Other Four Bikers but it wasn't a dealbreaker). And the additional material was good - Crowley comes across as much more sympathetic than in the book, and the extra bit at the end about the trials worked well. However, the revised confrontation between the kids and the Four Horsemen was IMO a big mistake - the book version would have worked much better and wouldn't have been any more involved than what they did in the show.

- The one big negative: Anathema. I can only assume that Adria Arjona is part-owner of the production company or Neil Gaiman's girlfriend or some influential person's client who wanted more exposure for her, because whoever decided "You know who would be the best person to play a frumpy English hedge witch? A Puerto Rican model" can't possibly have made that decision on artistic merit. Lovely to look at but couldn't act her way out of a wet paper bag (and that's not even getting into the weird steampunk couture they put her in).

- Finally, I note from some of the reviews on Amazon that the usual contingent are whining over Pollution being overtly female (but called "sir") and hinting that making Adam and Eve black was due to "SJW" influence. My heart bleeds for these people, really it does.
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Old 06-03-2019, 10:56 AM
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(David Tennant Voice) Well... (/David Tennant Voice) some sacrifices. For instance, no mention of the rival gang to Adam and crew, so when he called the armies of Heaven and Hell a couple of gangs, it was out of the blue and not the visible outcome of the character's story arc.
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Old 06-03-2019, 11:02 AM
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(I mean, I missed the Other Four Bikers but it wasn't a dealbreaker)
Ha- that was one thing I told my son, that he got to miss out on the Other Four, like G.B.H.!

But, it didn't hurt the story, really, just got to miss out on a pretty funny bit.
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Old 06-03-2019, 11:08 AM
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(David Tennant Voice) Well... (/David Tennant Voice) some sacrifices. For instance, no mention of the rival gang to Adam and crew, so when he called the armies of Heaven and Hell a couple of gangs, it was out of the blue and not the visible outcome of the character's story arc.
I considered that but it would have involved a lot of extra screen time to give them sufficient context, for minimal benefit. That said, the omission meant that we didn't get the revelation about the third baby.

I also wanted to see the reappearance of the US soldier at his parents' home in America, but again that wasn't crucial to the story.
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Old 06-03-2019, 09:02 PM
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Finished today and very pleased.

I read the book long enough ago that i don't remember it too well but do remember thinking it wasn't a great book for either of them, but fun enough. The show fares better.

Of course the things never happened bit gets all well timeywhimey ...
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Old 06-03-2019, 09:13 PM
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I also just finished it.

Yep, it's pretty good, but also falls apart in the middle a bit, much like the book. I think the adaptation is probably superior to the book, though I do remember enjoying the first 1/3 of the book quite a bit.
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Old 06-04-2019, 03:18 AM
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I hugely enjoyed it and I could watch Sheen and Tennant as Aziraphale and Crowley meeting up at various points in history for another few hours.

Sure, I missed some of the elements from the books that had to be cut out for time and cohesion (like the Four Other Bikers, Harvey's letters, Aziraphale's body-hopping ), but overall was very happy with it.

The only thing I didn't like was the change to Adam's transformation from wrold destroyer to Armageddon stopper. He had already forced his friends to walk and stay where he wanted, disappeared their mouths and forced them to smile - had already taken away their free will. And then he changed his mind, sort of stopped controlling them, and had a breakdown when his friends and dog left. Why did he suddenly stop controlling them?

In the book it was a bit clearer to me:
SPOILER:
(After distributing the world among his friends and saying he will keep Tadfield for himself.)"'I can have 'em if I want,' said Adam, his voice tinged with sullen defiance and his defiance edged with sudden doubt. 'I can make them better, too. Better trees to climb, better ponds, better...'
His voice trailed off.
'You can't,' said Wensleydale flatly. 'They're not like America and those places. They're really real. Anyway, they belong to all of us. They're ours.'
'And you couldn't make 'em better,' said Brian.
'Anyway, even if you did we'd all know,' said Pepper.
'Oh, if that's all that's worryin' you, don't you worry,' said Adam airily, ' 'cos I could make you all just do whatever I wanted-'
He stopped, his ears listening in horror to the words his mouth was speaking. The Them were backing away.
Dog put his paws over his head.
Adam's face looked like an impersonation of the collapse of empire.
'No,' he said hoarsely. 'No. Come back! I command you!'
They froze in mid-dash.
'No, I din't mean it-' he began. 'You're my friends-'
His body jerked. His head thrown back. He raised his arms and pounded the sky with his fists."


To me, that's a much better revelation for Adam, when just the idea of taking away his friends' free will is enough. It fits better with him being quintesentially human. In my opinion, it also makes the baby-switching mistake seem like more of a part of the ineffable plan, as the very down-to-earth not-so-speacial nature of Tadfield and the close bonds Adam had with regular kids seem to play a crucial, if not the only, part in his ultimate rejection of his fate. Elements of all this were present in the adaptation, but it is much clearer in the book.

Also, if even my absolutely best friend took my mouth away, I would not just accept an apology.
  #47  
Old 06-04-2019, 03:33 AM
Nava is offline
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I liked it.


The specific collection of books that's been mentioned in some spoilers and shown in close-up was a favorite of my dad and his siblings, growing up. When Dad eventually found out the author was a woman, he said "oh, ok, guess I just found out who my favorite female writer is then." Seeing those books was a very "awwwww" moment for me.


I find it weird that Anathema's name is pronounced differently by her and by her mother, but that's something I've noticed in several other series recently. Wouldn't it be real weird if it happened outside of a movie? I mean, it seems like a strange dialectal difference when it happens between two people who talk to each other a lot. Am I the only person who's bothered by stuff like that or something?

Last edited by Nava; 06-04-2019 at 03:35 AM.
  #48  
Old 06-04-2019, 04:34 AM
TPWombat is offline
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I particularly enjoyed the footage of Aziraphale dancing the gavotte.
  #49  
Old 06-04-2019, 05:52 AM
galen ubal is offline
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I've only seen the first episode so far, and I'm enjoying it thus far.
Whoever's doing the guitar work over the end credits is either Brian May or someone doing a damned fine imitation. Appropriate, what?
  #50  
Old 06-04-2019, 06:09 AM
Horatio Hellpop is offline
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I'm about midway through. It's more clever than engaging. I don't really like any of the characters yet, and the juxtaposition of Apocalyptic and mundane ("It was the end of the world, a Tuesday, right about teatime") gets grating fast. I love Neil Gaiman's other works that I've watched or read, so I assume the cutesyness is Pratchett's doing?
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