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Old 06-03-2019, 08:19 AM
Andy L is offline
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Rating Star Trek finales


I don't recall a previous thread on this topic

In my opinion:

1) ST:TNG: Superb. A finale that would be one of the best ST movies if it had been big screen.

2) DS 9: A good finale to a great series.

3) Voyager: A good finale to an okay series.

4) Enterprise: Framing the finale inside an episode of TNG was a blunder.

5) STTOS: One of the worst episodes of all Trek - a sad end to the original series.

Thoughts?

Last edited by Andy L; 06-03-2019 at 08:19 AM.
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Old 06-03-2019, 08:37 AM
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To be fair, you can't judge TOS. No one in that era, with the exception of The Fugitive, ever had finale episodes. They just...stopped. The Clampetts are still living in Beverly Hills in the same clothes. Hogan is still in Stalag 13. And Gilligan is still on the island, and will always be.

And one vote for "All Good Things...".
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Old 06-03-2019, 09:09 AM
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And Gilligan is still on the island, and will always be.
No, the castaways were eventually rescued, twice I think. Just long after the TV series had ended.

I don't think anyone at TOS knew "Turnabout Intruder" would be their farewell episode. In fact, there was supposed to be 26 episodes that season, but NBC cancelled the last two, one of which Shatner was going to direct.

To answer the question, I suppose I'll have to go with TNG. Haven't seen the DS9 finale, and I didn't care for either Enterprise's or Voyager's. The thought of fucking up a 30-year timeline for the benefit of one individual leaves me very uneasy.
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Old 06-03-2019, 09:12 AM
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All Good Things is frigging terrible. 'Oh, the Space Wedgie is developing backwards through time...so, the plot can proceed in a forward direction, as long as Picard time travels, obviously. Nothing internally contradictory about that!'

Of the ones I can recall (all except Voyager), DS9's final episode is the only that's not garbage, and even it is merely 'meh'.
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Old 06-03-2019, 09:35 AM
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I don't think anyone at TOS knew "Turnabout Intruder" would be their farewell episode. In fact, there was supposed to be 26 episodes that season, but NBC cancelled the last two, one of which Shatner was going to direct. (Emphasis added)
So, "Turnabout Intruder" WAS the good finale?
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Old 06-03-2019, 10:04 AM
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. . .

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Old 06-03-2019, 10:21 AM
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No, the castaways were eventually rescued, twice I think. Just long after the TV series had ended.
That isn't canon!

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Old 06-03-2019, 10:35 AM
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Maybe All Our Yesterdays should be seen as the TOS Finale.

I don't loath Turnabout Intruder but see how others do.
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Old 06-03-2019, 10:36 AM
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No, the castaways were eventually rescued, twice I think. Just long after the TV series had ended.

I don't think anyone at TOS knew "Turnabout Intruder" would be their farewell episode. In fact, there was supposed to be 26 episodes that season, but NBC cancelled the last two, one of which Shatner was going to direct.

To answer the question, I suppose I'll have to go with TNG. Haven't seen the DS9 finale, and I didn't care for either Enterprise's or Voyager's. The thought of fucking up a 30-year timeline for the benefit of one individual leaves me very uneasy.
Last we saw them, the castaways were still on the island....with the Harlem Globetrotters I believe.
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Old 06-03-2019, 10:46 AM
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No love for "The Counter-Clock Incident"??

Which, I would offer, supersedes "Turnabout Intruder" as the last "Original Series" episode, in a way.
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Old 06-03-2019, 10:51 AM
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All Good Things... was superb. The DS9 finale was mixed -- the war-ending stuff was solid, but the supernatural demon stuff got pretty silly, IIRC (it's been several years). But the overall Dominion War arc was excellent -- easily the best big story arc in Trek, IMO.
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Old 06-03-2019, 11:25 AM
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But the overall Dominion War arc was excellent -- easily the best big story arc in Trek, IMO.
Well, that's another modern thing. In TNG and older, no one did season(s) long arcs.

Unless you count Encounter at Farpoint and All Good Things... as one arc.

The closest thing to an arc in TOS was having Harry Mudd in two episodes. They couldn't even keep the same Klingon foil for Kirk like they would have liked to.
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Old 06-03-2019, 11:34 AM
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So, "Turnabout Intruder" WAS the good finale?
It was the last episode produced. Now that I think about it, I remember watching "Requiem for Methuselah" in either late August or early September 1969 (summer vacation was coming to an end), so that may well have been the last episode aired.

Surely that would have been a more appropriate final episode.

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Old 06-03-2019, 11:37 AM
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Last we saw them, the castaways were still on the island....with the Harlem Globetrotters I believe.
Yes ... but they could leave whenever they wanted to, couldn't they?
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Old 06-03-2019, 02:39 PM
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"All Good Things" was indeed excellent. My one quibble is the "paradox" of
SPOILER:
an explosion of anti-time growing backward in time
was blindingly obvious. Picard was forced to hold an idiot ball so the story could play out.

I stopped watching DS9 before the finale. Voyager's finale was, IMHO, pretty darn good especially for a show that had gone so off the rails.
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Old 06-03-2019, 03:13 PM
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Definitely "All Good Things..."

My issue with DS9's finale is it felt more like a finale of just the last two seasons or so than the series as a whole.
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Old 06-04-2019, 09:42 AM
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TNG, without a doubt. TOS has at least three claimants to bring the last episode, but mostly it's said to be Turnabout Intruder, which is mediocre, although nowhere near the worst, not when there's the Omega Glory, or the Empath, or the one where the space hippies call Kirk "Herbert".
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Old 06-04-2019, 10:53 AM
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It was the last episode produced. Now that I think about it, I remember watching "Requiem for Methuselah" in either late August or early September 1969 (summer vacation was coming to an end), so that may well have been the last episode aired.

Surely that would have been a more appropriate final episode.

"Forget!"
Nope, Turnabout Intruder was the final first-run episode aired, on June 3, 1969. Anything aired after that was a rerun.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turnabout_Intruder
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Old 06-04-2019, 11:06 AM
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Nope, Turnabout Intruder was the final first-run episode aired, on June 3, 1969. Anything aired after that was a rerun.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turnabout_Intruder
Wow. Fifty years ago yesterday!
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Old 06-04-2019, 11:26 AM
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Nope, Turnabout Intruder was the final first-run episode aired, on June 3, 1969. Anything aired after that was a rerun.
Of course. Back then, almost everything in the summer was a rerun, except for summer replacement shows.
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Old 06-04-2019, 11:32 AM
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... And "Requiem for Methuselah" was indeed the last episode aired on NBC:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Requiem_for_Methuselah

I remember exactly where I was and what I was doing on 2 September 1969. I watched this episode simply because there was nothing better on at the moment.
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Old 06-04-2019, 02:23 PM
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... And "Requiem for Methuselah" was indeed the last episode aired on NBC:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Requiem_for_Methuselah

I remember exactly where I was and what I was doing on 2 September 1969. I watched this episode simply because there was nothing better on at the moment.
I think i saw Lights of Zetar-first run...so few of us can actually say that
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Old 06-04-2019, 02:27 PM
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TNG, without a doubt. TOS has at least three claimants to bring the last episode, but mostly it's said to be Turnabout Intruder, which is mediocre, although nowhere near the worst, not when there's the Omega Glory, or the Empath, or the one where the space hippies call Kirk "Herbert".
Omega Glory shouldn't get shit on when the vast majority of the episode is good to great.

Hilariously, Kirk's PD violation is vastly greater than Tracey's. Tracey is the equiv of trying to stop The Golden Horde with one hand phaser. Kirk basically goes straight to Atilla and reinteprets their version of government.
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Old 06-04-2019, 02:30 PM
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"All Good Things" is clearly the winner as long as you can hand-wave away the glaring inconsistency. (A Q did it!)
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Old 06-04-2019, 02:37 PM
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TNG, without a doubt. TOS has at least three claimants to bring the last episode, but mostly it's said to be Turnabout Intruder, which is mediocre, although nowhere near the worst, not when there's the Omega Glory, or the Empath, or the one where the space hippies call Kirk "Herbert".
I have never heard anyone refer to Turnabout Intruder as mediocre. IMHO, it's on the same level as "Brain and brain! What is brain?" I don't mind The Omega Glory or The Way to Eden. I actually like the music in it.
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Old 06-04-2019, 03:45 PM
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All Good Things is frigging terrible. 'Oh, the Space Wedgie is developing backwards through time...so, the plot can proceed in a forward direction, as long as Picard time travels, obviously. Nothing internally contradictory about that!'
I would argue that "All Good Things" isn't a finale at all, because the series continued on film with no major changes in format or characters.

I'm probably not the ideal person to rate Trek finales anyway. Although I have some affection for Star Trek: The Motionless Picture, I generally like to pretend that Star Trek stopped with "Turnabout Intruder."
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Old 06-04-2019, 05:03 PM
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Nope, Turnabout Intruder was the final first-run episode aired, on June 3, 1969.
Another sleepy, dusty, Alpha Quadrant day. . .

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Although I have some affection for Star Trek: The Motionless Picture, I generally like to pretend that Star Trek stopped with "Turnabout Intruder."
If we're going to pretend, I'd just as soon we pretend it stopped with Requiem for Methuselah, and the last four original episodes never aired.
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Old 06-04-2019, 08:29 PM
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"Turnabout Intruder" wasn't the worst episode, IMO. I would give that dubious honor to the "And the Children Shall Lead." There is nothing, absolutely NOTHING, good I can say about that one. In "Turnabout Intruder," Scottie does get a few good lines and you can always watch Shatner chew a square mile of carpet. The Space Hippies had a couple of funny bits. "Spock's Brain" has some humorous exchanges at the end, and "Brain and Brain! What is Brain?" is hilarious.
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Old 06-05-2019, 07:58 AM
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"Turnabout Intruder" wasn't the worst episode, IMO. I would give that dubious honor to the "And the Children Shall Lead." There is nothing, absolutely NOTHING, good I can say about that one.
I'll see your "Children" and raise you "Plato's Stepchildren." That one is so bad it's off the scale at 11.
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Old 06-05-2019, 10:37 AM
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In "Turnabout Intruder," Scottie does get a few good lines and you can always watch Shatner chew a square mile of carpet.
I admit I continue to be "entertained" by the performances in TA, both Shatner and guest star Sandra Smith. But the entire plot, script, and special effects were not worthy of Trek.

According to my source, the final episodes of TOS Season Three by air date were

Let That Be Your Last Battlefield
The Mark of Gideon
That Which Survives
The Lights of Zetar
Requiem for Methuselah
The Way to Eden
The Cloud Minders
The Savage Curtain
All Our Yesterdays
Turnabout Intruder

The episodes after Methuselah my have had their individual moments (Mariette Hartley in animal skins, still some good miniatures, Abraham Lincoln, Mr. Atoz) but overall they were pretty disappointing for this teenaged geek who looked forward to Friday nights, even though his parents hadn't gotten a color TV yet.

Last edited by Kent Clark; 06-05-2019 at 10:38 AM.
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Old 06-05-2019, 11:27 AM
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I agree with the OP's rankings of the various ST finales.

"Spock's Brain" is pretty damn stinky; I think it's probably the worst TOS episode. I haven't seen "Turnabout Intruder" in a long time but I remember thinking that Shatner actually didn't do too badly as an evil woman inhabiting a starship captain's body. Maybe I'd be more critical if I saw it today.

The remastered "Turnabout Intruder" at least gave the original USS Enterprise a nice sendoff for the last time we would see her on the small screen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gntXHRKnIAQ

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  #32  
Old 06-05-2019, 12:06 PM
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The remastered "Turnabout Intruder" at least gave the original USS Enterprise a nice sendoff for the last time we would see her on the small screen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gntXHRKnIAQ
The remastered special effects are one instance of tampering with the original films I heartily approve of. Well, most of the time, anyway. I think they could have done a much better job with the surface of Vulcan in "Amok Time."

I really need to see more of the remastered episodes when I'm in North America. I just haven't watched Star Trek much at all in the last few years.
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Old 06-05-2019, 12:14 PM
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The episodes after Methuselah my have had their individual moments (Mariette Hartley in animal skins, still some good miniatures, Abraham Lincoln, Mr. Atoz) but overall they were pretty disappointing for this teenaged geek who looked forward to Friday nights, even though his parents hadn't gotten a color TV yet.
Pretty much the entire third season sucked because the budget was cut and outsiders who didn't understand the show were brought in to run it. Plus, NBC was no longer very supportive, since they hadn't liked the "fan-engineered" letter-writing campaign at the end of the previous season.

Roddenberry saw the writing on the wall, and backed away from the series to preserve his health and develop new projects.

In their book, Solow and Justman talk about a first-season letter-writing campaign, but I don't recall one at all. SFAIK, there was only the one that led to the 1968 on-air announcement of the show being renewed. Is my memory at fault here, or are theirs?
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Old 06-05-2019, 12:21 PM
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I only ever heard about the one at the end of the second season.

terentii, please check out the remastered "Doomsday Machine." Far and away the best of the remastered sfx IMHO.
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Old 06-05-2019, 05:13 PM
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In their book, Solow and Justman talk about a first-season letter-writing campaign, but I don't recall one at all. SFAIK, there was only the one that led to the 1968 on-air announcement of the show being renewed. Is my memory at fault here, or are theirs?
I read the book but I don't have it handy right now. ISTR that during the first season there was a concerted letter-writing effort throughout the sci-fi community to talk up ST and show support. I think Harlan Ellison actually played a big part. I guess that was before he saw what happened to his script.
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Old 06-06-2019, 01:48 AM
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If Enterprise had ended with "Terra Prime" instead of "These Are The Voyages" I think it would be a legitimate contender.
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Old 06-06-2019, 02:52 PM
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I'll see your "Children" and raise you "Plato's Stepchildren." That one is so bad it's off the scale at 11.
I think I'll stick with "Children" as the worst, but I won't argue. "Plato's Stepchildren" sucked so badly it could drain Lake Michigan. How can you waste Michael Dunn's talent and charm?
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Old 06-06-2019, 11:09 PM
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I admit I continue to be "entertained" by the performances in TA, both Shatner and guest star Sandra Smith. But the entire plot, script, and special effects were not worthy of Trek.

According to my source, the final episodes of TOS Season Three by air date were

Let That Be Your Last Battlefield
The Mark of Gideon
That Which Survives
The Lights of Zetar
Requiem for Methuselah
The Way to Eden
The Cloud Minders
The Savage Curtain
All Our Yesterdays
Turnabout Intruder

The episodes after Methuselah my have had their individual moments (Mariette Hartley in animal skins, still some good miniatures, Abraham Lincoln, Mr. Atoz) but overall they were pretty disappointing for this teenaged geek who looked forward to Friday nights, even though his parents hadn't gotten a color TV yet.
That Which Survives is just flat out great. And the Scotty-Spock scenes are great. Great acting when Scotty says "Its stuck!"....just the teeny way Nimoy reacts.

LOVE that episode.
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Old 06-07-2019, 12:09 AM
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That Which Survives is just flat out great. And the Scotty-Spock scenes are great. Great acting when Scotty says "Its stuck!"....just the teeny way Nimoy reacts.

LOVE that episode.
I wouldn't call it great, but it is pretty good. Of the episodes listed by Kent Clark, there's something good I can say about all of them, but "The Mark of Gideon." That POS is so tedious that I may have to change my opinion of "And the Children Shall Lead."

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Old 06-07-2019, 12:58 PM
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I genuinely thought DS9's finale was the best of them.

Voyager's wasn't bad, except it honestly felt like the writers looked at their watches, said "Oops, we only have 2 minutes left of the show!!" and waived their magic Back To The Alpha Quadrant wand. I've rewatched it, and nothing in the episode really leads up to them suddenly being able to jump back home.

Enterprise.... I prefer to think that last episode was a fevered imagination of Spock's brain while it was going walkabout. Why on earth did they need to bring in Troi and Riker, and kill off Trip!!!!
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Old 06-12-2019, 10:57 PM
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I genuinely thought DS9's finale was the best of them.

Enterprise.... I prefer to think that last episode was a fevered imagination of Spock's brain while it was going walkabout. Why on earth did they need to bring in Troi and Riker, and kill off Trip!!!!
Agreed on DS9.

For Enterprise, my head canon is that the holonovel version of events is heavily fictionalized and not at all accurate. A modern-day example would be Black Hawk Down. Mark Bowden interviewed a lot of soldiers and locals to get the story and there are still blanks in there (as Navy SEALs are not a talkative bunch) despite his excellent research. And then Ridley Scott comes along to make a 144 minute action movie out of the book. Accuracy goes right out the window (for example, the movie has one big scene with Little Birds strafing but the book indicates that they were strafing constantly).

So it goes with Enterprise. Trip and Archer get into a drunken fistfight over who is hotter, T'Pol or Hoshi and this gets fictionalized into Trip decking Archer so he can go sacrifice himself. Some ensign in engineering singes his uniform on a loose plasma conduit and this gets fictionalized into Trip blowing himself up to save the ship. Shran visits with his adorable, snarky daughter and this gets fictionalized into Shran visiting while the ship was being attacked by pirates! And so on...

Like I said, Terra Prime is the real finale. Amazing episode where Archer actually gives the speech instead of just fretting about it all episode. Character moments for everyone, even Mayweather! Peter Goddamn Weller as the villain (and he was so good in that role he was recast as an Admiral Evil in Star Trek Into Darkness)! Enterprise was not the best Star Trek series but everyone once in a while they knocked it out the park and this was one of those episodes.
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Old 06-13-2019, 11:34 AM
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Yes ... but they could leave [Gilligan's Island] whenever they wanted to, couldn't they?
Yes, they opened up a resort there, so there was actually a reason for all the visitors to show up in the later tv movies.


And I know Spock's Brain gets a lot of grief, and it is a bit goofy, but I like it much better than some of the "other" stinkers (including Turnabout Intruder).
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Old 06-13-2019, 01:04 PM
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It's a lot easier to pick out the best episodes of the third season, since there were so many others that just sucked.

My favorite is "Spectre of the Gun," since it's the one most science-fictioney. It's so surreal, it's almost like watching an episode of Twilight Zone, one instance of TOS turning its budget cuts to good advantage.

Other good ones are "Day of the Dove," "The Tholian Web," and "That Which Survives." And yes, I'll even go along with "Spock's Brain," just because they have to figure out how to track it down before they can restore it. I like Uhura's line "Why do they want Mr Spock's brain? What use is it to them?"
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Old 06-13-2019, 11:10 PM
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Don't forget "The Enterprise Incident". I've always wanted to use the Vulcan Death Grip.
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Old 06-14-2019, 02:33 AM
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Originally Posted by DSYoungEsq View Post
Don't forget "The Enterprise Incident". I've always wanted to use the Vulcan Death Grip.
That was about the only good thing in that episode. The story is full of holes big enough to fly a starship through.
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  #46  
Old 06-14-2019, 01:49 PM
DSYoungEsq is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terentii View Post
That was about the only good thing in that episode. The story is full of holes big enough to fly a starship through.
ALL Star Trek episodes have plot holes. Big ones. That's why the Nitpicker's Guide to Star Trek was written. Complaining about Star Trek plot holes is like complaining about M*A*S*H timeline inconsistencies.
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