Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-05-2019, 03:48 PM
SlackerInc's Avatar
SlackerInc is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 11,164

We can't compliment the appearance of someone on a TV show?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronos View Post
[Moderating]



The reason we are discussing Holzhauer is because of his knowledge and reflexes. He'd still have done well on Jeopardy no matter how he looked (as, for that matter, would Boettcher). So comments like this (directed towards either sex) aren't really appropriate.

The comment in question was not, FTR, some kind of coarse, vulgar, sexual one. Rather, it was simply: "Sorry to see him go, he was nice to look at!" I'm incredulous that this would merit a slap on the wrist.

(I would, FWIW, agree that it's not cool to criticize someone's appearance, even in a mild way. Complimenting them in a non-crude way seems harmless.)
  #2  
Old 06-05-2019, 04:10 PM
TriPolar is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: rhode island
Posts: 40,357
It's CS, it's about a TV show, doesn't seem untoward to compliment the participants.

A link to it.
  #3  
Old 06-05-2019, 05:26 PM
DrDeth is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: San Jose
Posts: 40,483
Yeah, that wasnt untoward.

Now "he had nice buns" or something would have been. But "nice to look at?"
  #4  
Old 06-05-2019, 06:06 PM
manson1972's Avatar
manson1972 is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 10,904
He has an exemplary brain! -> ok

He has attractive features -> not ok.

It's only allowed if you are a woman and you are degrading the eyebrows of a female actress.
  #5  
Old 06-05-2019, 06:08 PM
PatriotX is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Fayettenam
Posts: 7,340
I assume there's some context I'm missing.

Why is it not okay to appreciate how someone looks in Cafe Society?

In which forum is it okay to appreciate how someone looks?
Only the Pit?
__________________
Irrationally Informed
  #6  
Old 06-05-2019, 06:25 PM
SlackerInc's Avatar
SlackerInc is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 11,164
Quote:
Originally Posted by PatriotX View Post
I assume there's some context I'm missing.

There really isn’t.

Let’s note too that Jeopardy doesn’t cast solely based on test performance. There is also a “screen test”, which they say is about personality but obviously has an unspoken element of assessing attractiveness.
  #7  
Old 06-05-2019, 06:25 PM
TroutMan's Avatar
TroutMan is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,711
Quote:
Originally Posted by PatriotX View Post
I assume there's some context I'm missing.
The context, I suspect, is that a few days previously there was a more lascivious comment made about one of the female contestants ("I know this is totally shallow--especially in a thread about a contest of knowledge--but today's contestant is smokin' hot."). That comment was modded, and I think Chronos had a quicker trigger than he would have otherwise when another poster commented on looks.
  #8  
Old 06-05-2019, 06:28 PM
SlackerInc's Avatar
SlackerInc is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 11,164
I don’t think that should have been modded either. Maybe if someone said “nice rack” or “I’d hit that”.
  #9  
Old 06-05-2019, 06:40 PM
TroutMan's Avatar
TroutMan is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,711
Personally, I'm fine with modding unnecessary comments on women's sexual attractiveness in threads that have nothing to do with their appearance. There have been several ATMB threads where women on the board have explained very clearly why that creates an unwelcoming atmosphere, and I suggest you read them again if it still isn't clear.

A relatively harmless comment about a man being "nice to look at" doesn't usually need the same response, because it doesn't carry the same baggage of objectification that comments about women do. But once a mod has to give instructions to refrain from comments about looks in thread, they are right to apply it consistently.
  #10  
Old 06-05-2019, 06:42 PM
SlackerInc's Avatar
SlackerInc is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 11,164
How about saying a woman is “nice to look at”?
  #11  
Old 06-05-2019, 06:43 PM
dropzone's Avatar
dropzone is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Cloud Cuckoo Land
Posts: 29,579
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlackerInc View Post
"Sorry to see him go, he was nice to look at!"
That is precisely the misogynistic toxic masculinity that is driving people away from this site. Or so I've heard.

Last edited by dropzone; 06-05-2019 at 06:46 PM. Reason: reasons
  #12  
Old 06-05-2019, 06:55 PM
TroutMan's Avatar
TroutMan is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,711
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlackerInc View Post
How about saying a woman is “nice to look at”?
I will let women comment on how they feel about that, if they so desire. I'm not interested in playing hypotheticals all day.
  #13  
Old 06-05-2019, 07:00 PM
SlackerInc's Avatar
SlackerInc is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 11,164
Quote:
Originally Posted by dropzone View Post
That is precisely the misogynistic toxic masculinity that is driving people away from this site. Or so I've heard.

Yup. Certainly that must be repelling more people than getting chided (or seeing someone get chided) for saying someone on their TV screen is “nice to look at”.
  #14  
Old 06-05-2019, 07:06 PM
Riemann's Avatar
Riemann is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Santa Fe, NM, USA
Posts: 7,342
Well, my initial thought was to agree with you, although I don't think it's relevant whether a comment is positive or negative. But your subsequent apparent desire to parse exactly where the line is on how much you can tell the world about whether someone tickles your naughty bits kind of makes me more sympathetic to Chronos' inclination to just steer the conversation away from that subject area altogether. It was pretty mildly worded guidance.

Last edited by Riemann; 06-05-2019 at 07:07 PM.
  #15  
Old 06-05-2019, 07:09 PM
SlackerInc's Avatar
SlackerInc is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 11,164
You don’t think it’s relevant? Wow. I think it’s awful to imagine someone Googling themselves and finding comments, even mildly worded ones, saying they are unattractive. I have no such concern about someone who reads non-vulgar statements of appreciation for their attractiveness.
  #16  
Old 06-05-2019, 09:15 PM
TroutMan's Avatar
TroutMan is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,711
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlackerInc View Post
...I have no such concern about someone who reads non-vulgar statements of appreciation for their attractiveness.
And this is the problem. Commenting positively about the physical attractiveness of someone in a test of intelligence is a different bad than commenting negatively, but they are both bad.

Consider the woman who was referenced earlier as "smokin' hot." She qualified for Jeopardy because she is intelligent and scored well on a test, and she went on the show hoping to be evaluated based on those criteria. Do you think she'd be happy that the sole comment about her in this thread had nothing to do with recognizing her brains, but was only about how attractive someone found her?

As men, you and I can not fully understand what it's like to be constantly objectified and assigned value based on our fuckability. But we can listen to women who tell us it gets old fast.
  #17  
Old 06-05-2019, 09:40 PM
TriPolar is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: rhode island
Posts: 40,357
Quote:
Originally Posted by TroutMan View Post
And this is the problem. Commenting positively about the physical attractiveness of someone in a test of intelligence is a different bad than commenting negatively, but they are both bad.
Let's get this straight, it's a TV show. It's entertainment. Maybe to you it's a type of nerd porn but it doesn't get some special status over other reality TV shows.
  #18  
Old 06-05-2019, 09:46 PM
SlackerInc's Avatar
SlackerInc is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 11,164
If this place is out to be the winner of the Woke Olympics, it's going to have to do more to really advertise to that narrow little niche. Because the vast majority of people don't have time for that nonsense.
  #19  
Old 06-05-2019, 10:18 PM
TroutMan's Avatar
TroutMan is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,711
Quote:
Originally Posted by TriPolar View Post
Let's get this straight, it's a TV show. It's entertainment. Maybe to you it's a type of nerd porn but it doesn't get some special status over other reality TV shows.
Yeah, I don't think you have it straight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SlackerInc View Post
If this place is out to be the winner of the Woke Olympics, it's going to have to do more to really advertise to that narrow little niche. Because the vast majority of people don't have time for that nonsense.
That's your rebuttal? Woke Olympics? OK then.
  #20  
Old 06-05-2019, 11:50 PM
SlackerInc's Avatar
SlackerInc is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 11,164
Yes, it's excessively "woke" to claim that describing someone on a popular TV show as "nice to look at" is "objectif[ying] and assig[ning them] value based on their fuckability". And I feel confident that 95% of regular people would agree with me about that. I say "regular" people because I'm sure the subset who provide most of Twitter's content would agree with you, or maybe even object that you somehow weren't going far enough in your callout.
  #21  
Old 06-06-2019, 05:22 AM
kopek is offline
born to be shunned
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Southwestern PA
Posts: 14,599
Quote:
Originally Posted by TroutMan View Post

Consider the woman who was referenced earlier as "smokin' hot." She qualified for Jeopardy because she is intelligent and scored well on a test, and she went on the show hoping to be evaluated based on those criteria.
And as others have said, scored well on a screen test; so clearly looks and/or stage presence is part of why she was picked. And something she should be proud of as well. Having known people to both qualify and actually get on the show to compete, my impression is you can be well away from the top in intelligence and "make the air" in reality. If the qualification/testing was blind and all that counted was the final score I would say SlackerInc was worth a note. But since it isn't ------- I'm coming down on the over-the-top side.
  #22  
Old 06-06-2019, 08:42 AM
HurricaneDitka is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 13,615
Whenever this subject comes up now, I'm reminded of this thread, in which Chronos suggested an alternative woman to ogle.
  #23  
Old 06-06-2019, 09:56 AM
TroutMan's Avatar
TroutMan is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,711
When on one side there are women who have repeatedly expressed disappointment with unnecessary comments on the attractiveness of women, and on the other side a group of men ready to argue to the death for their right to tell the rest of us who they find attractive, I see the loss of the first as being worse than the loss of the second.

You feel differently, so have at it.
  #24  
Old 06-06-2019, 10:03 AM
Inner Stickler's Avatar
Inner Stickler is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 14,905
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlackerInc View Post
If this place is out to be the winner of the Woke Olympics, it's going to have to do more to really advertise to that narrow little niche. Because the vast majority of people don't have time for that nonsense.
Because participation on the dope was booming before?
  #25  
Old 06-06-2019, 10:47 AM
Blank Slate's Avatar
Blank Slate is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 5,234
Quote:
Originally Posted by HurricaneDitka View Post
Whenever this subject comes up now, I'm reminded of this thread, in which Chronos suggested an alternative woman to ogle.
In turn, that reminds me of the golden age of message boards. Back when everyone know how to link to a specific post.
  #26  
Old 06-06-2019, 11:52 AM
Helena330's Avatar
Helena330 is offline
Mere Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Near Seattle, WA, USA
Posts: 3,734
Chronos' moderation was just fine for where the board is right now. I thank him for it.
  #27  
Old 06-06-2019, 11:54 AM
Riemann's Avatar
Riemann is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Santa Fe, NM, USA
Posts: 7,342
Quote:
Originally Posted by HurricaneDitka View Post
Whenever this subject comes up now, I'm reminded of this thread, in which Chronos suggested an alternative woman to ogle.
What's the relevance of that, is it supposed to be a "gotcha"?

That was a thread started explicitly about the physical appearance of a broadcaster. I don't know if such a thread would pass muster now, but in the context of that thread existing, Chronos' comment was pretty innocuous. The comment that's the subject of this thread was also innocuous in itself. It's a recent development that there has been a growing consensus on the board to be more inclusive, that there are plenty other places where men can feel free to share with the world what makes their penis hard. And since (as SlackerInc has demonstrated in this thread) it's hard to draw a bright line about when things veer into the inappropriate, it seems understandable that the mods might now choose a path to steer the conversation away from the physical appearance of women (and for consistency men) altogether when it's irrelevant, even if a particular comment is in itself innocuous.

If board policy changes, do you think it's reasonable to scrutinize every mod's past postings to see if they were sufficiently omniscient to anticipate future changes in board policy?

Last edited by Riemann; 06-06-2019 at 11:58 AM.
  #28  
Old 06-06-2019, 06:35 PM
UltraVires is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Bridgeport, WV, US
Posts: 15,372
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlackerInc View Post
The comment in question was not, FTR, some kind of coarse, vulgar, sexual one. Rather, it was simply: "Sorry to see him go, he was nice to look at!" I'm incredulous that this would merit a slap on the wrist.

(I would, FWIW, agree that it's not cool to criticize someone's appearance, even in a mild way. Complimenting them in a non-crude way seems harmless.)
Forget it. Any semblance of sanity about this topic has long since disappeared. The board has given way to the snowflakes.
  #29  
Old 06-06-2019, 07:46 PM
Helena330's Avatar
Helena330 is offline
Mere Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Near Seattle, WA, USA
Posts: 3,734
Quote:
Originally Posted by UltraVires View Post
Forget it. Any semblance of sanity about this topic has long since disappeared. The board has given way to the snowflakes.
Whatever you want to call it, this woman appreciates that the mods have been trying make the place more comfortable for us. I've noticed a difference. Wish we had a thumbs up smiley.
  #30  
Old 06-06-2019, 08:11 PM
manson1972's Avatar
manson1972 is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 10,904
Well, here's a thread where women specifically said "I'm saying character appearance is relevant in a discussion of a tv show. Full stop"

Thread: Post
  #31  
Old 06-06-2019, 08:20 PM
DrDeth is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: San Jose
Posts: 40,483
Quote:
Originally Posted by Helena330 View Post
Whatever you want to call it, this woman appreciates that the mods have been trying make the place more comfortable for us. I've noticed a difference. Wish we had a thumbs up smiley.
Sure, but show biz is about appearance. That doesnt mean guys get to say things like "Nice rack, I'd love to play motorboat with those!" but just a general comment on looking "nice" is not sexist or misogynist or out of place.
  #32  
Old 06-06-2019, 08:25 PM
manson1972's Avatar
manson1972 is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 10,904
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDeth View Post
Sure, but show biz is about appearance. That doesnt mean guys get to say things like "Nice rack, I'd love to play motorboat with those!" but just a general comment on looking "nice" is not sexist or misogynist or out of place.
You started another thread on those "Manifest" comments in ATMB? I don't think I even knew that
  #33  
Old 06-06-2019, 09:37 PM
raventhief's Avatar
raventhief is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 4,835
Quote:
Originally Posted by manson1972 View Post
Well, here's a thread where women specifically said "I'm saying character appearance is relevant in a discussion of a tv show. Full stop"

Thread: Post
Is Ellis Dee a woman/women? I don't recall seeing that. I may have missed it though.
  #34  
Old 06-06-2019, 09:47 PM
raventhief's Avatar
raventhief is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 4,835
Quote:
Originally Posted by raventhief View Post
Is Ellis Dee a woman/women? I don't recall seeing that. I may have missed it though.
Went searching

https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb...&postcount=165
  #35  
Old 06-06-2019, 10:03 PM
DrDeth is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: San Jose
Posts: 40,483
Quote:
Originally Posted by manson1972 View Post
You started another thread on those "Manifest" comments in ATMB? I don't think I even knew that
What are you babbling about?
  #36  
Old 06-07-2019, 04:05 AM
BigT's Avatar
BigT is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: "Hicksville", Ark.
Posts: 36,196
Quote:
Originally Posted by TroutMan View Post
The context, I suspect, is that a few days previously there was a more lascivious comment made about one of the female contestants ("I know this is totally shallow--especially in a thread about a contest of knowledge--but today's contestant is smokin' hot."). That comment was modded, and I think Chronos had a quicker trigger than he would have otherwise when another poster commented on looks.
And after this comment, I'm not really sure why this is still being discussed.

If a mod has come in and left a note that appearance comments are inappropriate, then of course a second one, even if normally okay, is going to get some moderation. It's gonna look like you're just poking the bear.

I mean, could you not see the ATMB thread where someone asked "Why was it okay to comment on a man's appearance but not a woman's?" If I were a mod, I suspect that was the purpose. Especially if the poster didn't have a history of making such comments about men.

----

That said, since other things have come up, I will address one other thing in this thread: a screen test doesn't mean they're being checked for how sexually attractive they are. It just means they're checked for how well they play on screen. Are they confident? Do they look presentable? Are they well dressed? Would people root for them? Do they speak clearly?

I see no sign that Jeopardy adds "and are they conventionally sexually attractive?" to the list.
  #37  
Old 06-07-2019, 06:16 AM
TriPolar is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: rhode island
Posts: 40,357
This thread has gone off into the broader area that doesn't seem worth discussing. If there had been no previous modding the post referred to in the OP would have been fine IMHO. But since there was a previous modding of a less innocuous comment there's no point in focusing on this one. We just need to avoid a zero tolerance policy that paints with too broad a brush.
  #38  
Old 06-07-2019, 07:23 AM
manson1972's Avatar
manson1972 is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 10,904
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDeth View Post
What are you babbling about?
I'm not babbling. Just didn't know that thread existed. Nothing wrong with it.
  #39  
Old 06-07-2019, 06:32 PM
SlackerInc's Avatar
SlackerInc is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 11,164
Quote:
Originally Posted by TriPolar View Post
We just need to avoid a zero tolerance policy that paints with too broad a brush.

And you think that has been avoided?
  #40  
Old 06-07-2019, 09:31 PM
Munch is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 22,172
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigT View Post
I see no sign that Jeopardy adds "and are they conventionally sexually attractive?" to the list.
No one suggested they had.

If suggesting that one minor reason to continue tuning into Jeopardy is because you find one of the contestants pleasing to look at isn't allowed, can we talk about the thread in IMHO that is 236 replies long about how attractive a man's wealth is? Or maybe we can all just calm the fuck down and realize that there's a reason Jeopardy isn't broadcast on the radio?
  #41  
Old 06-07-2019, 09:51 PM
TriPolar is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: rhode island
Posts: 40,357
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlackerInc View Post
And you think that has been avoided?
That is not decided yet and this case is murky because of the prior modding. The statement has been made. Not a good choice of a hill to battle for.
  #42  
Old 06-07-2019, 10:08 PM
SlackerInc's Avatar
SlackerInc is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 11,164
Quote:
Originally Posted by TriPolar View Post
That is not decided yet and this case is murky because of the prior modding. The statement has been made. Not a good choice of a hill to battle for.

What makes it a poor choice?
__________________
Some people on TV are nice to look at.
  #43  
Old 06-11-2019, 11:45 AM
WildBlueYonder is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: TheWildBlueYonder
Posts: 1,074
To me, simply, its a matter of going off topic. Kind of hard to moderate ALL of the off topic posts in most every thread/conversation. Makes me feel as if I will have to watch every word I say in a post.

Not very welcoming and makes a body feel unwelcome. Something I just love to happen to me.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Helena330 View Post
Whatever you want to call it, this woman appreciates that the mods have been trying make the place more comfortable for us. I've noticed a difference. Wish we had a thumbs up smiley.
my comment made you uncomfortable? Not sure why.

I maintain it was off topic...something that really isnt moderatative....unless its awfully crude, insulting, pornographic, degrading

...(I could be wrong though, I'll always admit that-always)
__________________
I'm up in the Wild Blue Yonder, of course :
  #44  
Old 06-12-2019, 10:31 AM
Irishman is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Denton, TX, USA
Posts: 12,486
Quote:
Originally Posted by Munch View Post
Or maybe we can all just calm the fuck down and realize that there's a reason Jeopardy isn't broadcast on the radio?
Because TV is more popular that radio. Or maybe because people like reading those little boxes themselves. I, I know, it's kinda hard to do video daily doubles on the radio.
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:55 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@straightdope.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Copyright © 2018 STM Reader, LLC.

 
Copyright © 2017