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Old 08-23-2019, 10:20 AM
doreen is offline
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Cruise ship restrictions in Victoria BC


I was on a cruise last week , and one of the ports was Victoria BC. According to the daily schedule, due to regulations they could only have one bar per deck open while in this port. Additionally , there were restrictions on the entertainment - they couldn't use the production staff ( those who work on the big shows) or guest entertainers. Does any know the reasons behind these restrictions? I don't recall any other ports having such restrictions.
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Old 08-23-2019, 11:16 AM
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a Canadian thing it seems:

Quote:
LIQUOR OUTLETS AND BARS
Liquor outlets and bars must be closed while in port. Under no circumstances should liquor be given or sold to
visiting Canadian residents, shore personnel, or stevedoring personnel while the ship is in port.
While in port, one bar per 1,000 passengers, or one bar per deck that provides hospitality services (whichever is
greater), may be allowed to remain open. For example, if there are four decks providing hospitality services, four
bars may be allowed to remain open.

A letter requesting permission to open bars must be submitted to the CBSA at the beginning of the season. This
letter must include the bar location, the time it will be open, and, once suitably endorsed by the CBSA, will act as
standing authority to open these bars, while in port, for the entire season. For any amendments to the original
request, or if special circumstances exist that require additional bars to be open, another letter must be submitted to the CBSA.

The CBSA will conduct spot checks to ensure compliance and this privilege will be revoked if any bar is open
without permission or if any Canadian resident visitor, shore personnel, or stevedoring personnel is served in a
bar. In addition, monetary penalties may be assessed to the cruise line.

http://www.shipfed.ca/data/circular_...Attachment.pdf
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Old 08-23-2019, 11:37 AM
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You have no idea how I tried to find something like that - I guess I couldn't figure out the correct search terms.
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Old 08-23-2019, 01:58 PM
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Was there ever a problem with booze-starved Canadians storming on board ship to get drinks?
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Old 08-23-2019, 02:09 PM
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How would anyone but passengers and crew even get on the ship? Everyone has to go through security every time you board.
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Old 08-23-2019, 02:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackmannii View Post
Was there ever a problem with booze-starved Canadians storming on board ship to get drinks?
I suspect (though I could be wrong) that the rule is there to encourage cruise ship passengers to get off the ship and spend money in port, by forcing the ships to close down some of their onboard entertainment while in a Canadian port.
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Old 08-23-2019, 06:37 PM
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How would anyone but passengers and crew even get on the ship? Everyone has to go through security every time you board.
In the past, visitors from land at port were common.
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Old 08-23-2019, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Balthisar View Post
In the past, visitors from land at port were common.
Just curious, any idea how long ago in the past?
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Old 08-23-2019, 07:48 PM
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I finally realized why I’ve never noticed this in other Canadian ports - the other times, we were in port during the day, when the entertainment tends toward bingo and fruit carving demonstrations. This time, we were in port from 4 pm till midnight.


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Old 08-24-2019, 10:06 AM
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Canada has a lot more restrictions on alcohol than most of the USA (Except Quebec - those French-Canadians, you know...). We never went through country-wide prohibition and so never had country-wide relaxation of all liquor laws. many provinces still sell liquor and even wine only through government-run stores. There are still a few "dry" communities. Liquor laws are a provincial concern, I assume the ports rules are a compromise between the feds and the provinces. (However, we have not fallen for the American helicopter parent hysteria about young people, many provinces still have drinking at 18, and Ontario at 19).

As for entertainment - I suspect too this has to do with labour restrictions. They don't want concert organizers or such to get around Canadian labour permit rules by having their concert on a docked foreign-registered ship. We have roughly the same rules about any undocumented foreign workers as the USA, but we enforce ours.
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Old 08-24-2019, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D'Anconia View Post
Just curious, any idea how long ago in the past?
I searched on this, and it appears that greater security was put into place after 9/11. I don't remember a lot of security when I took the QE2 in 1980, but that was a while ago. Ditto for a cruise in 1986.

BTW, it appears that Canada, besides regulating bars, can also not let you leave the ship if you have a criminal record.

It's always been the case that the casino shuts down when you are in port.

Last edited by Voyager; 08-24-2019 at 01:50 PM.
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Old 08-24-2019, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by doreen View Post
Additionally , there were restrictions on the entertainment - they couldn't use the production staff ( those who work on the big shows) or guest entertainers. Does any know the reasons behind these restrictions?
This is probably related to either work licensing requirements or union rules (or both).

Many locations have strict requirements for entertainment workers, relating to licensing & safety (especially fire safety) training. It's quite likely that the low-paid, foreign workers on cruise ships have not taken the required safety courses or have the appropriate licenses to do stage production work in Canada. And many stage occupations are strictly limited by union rules & training -- stage electricians vs. stagehands vs. sound/light board operators etc. -- each are trained only to do specific jobs in a crowded entertainment venue.
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Old 08-24-2019, 04:53 PM
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BTW, it appears that Canada, besides regulating bars, can also not let you leave the ship if you have a criminal record.
You realize that Canada is a completely separate country with our own immigration laws?
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Old 08-24-2019, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by md2000 View Post
Canada has a lot more restrictions on alcohol than most of the USA (Except Quebec - those French-Canadians, you know...). We never went through country-wide prohibition and so never had country-wide relaxation of all liquor laws. many provinces still sell liquor and even wine only through government-run stores.
Liquor laws are mostly enacted by the states and vary considerably. For instance Oregon allows the sale of distilled spirits only by state run liquor stores. This isn't all bad because IME these stores offer a remarkable selection, given the burgeoning local distilling industry.

Quote:
(However, we have not fallen for the American helicopter parent hysteria about young people, many provinces still have drinking at 18, and Ontario at 19).
While it's true helicopter parenting hysteria was involved, the federal National Drinking Age Act operates through the threat of witholding some federal highway funding from states that refuse to enforce a drinking age of twenty-one. It doesn't prohibit states outright from adopting a lower drinking age.



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Last edited by Spectre of Pithecanthropus; 08-24-2019 at 09:06 PM.
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Old 08-24-2019, 09:07 PM
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You realize that Canada is a completely separate country with our own immigration laws?
Just mentioning a different law doesn't mean we're unaware of this.

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Last edited by Spectre of Pithecanthropus; 08-24-2019 at 09:08 PM.
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Old 08-25-2019, 12:05 AM
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You'd be surprised at the number of visitors from south of 49 who don't seem to get this point.

It often comes up in relation to trying to bring guns across the border, apparently on the assumption that the 2nd Amendment applies world-wide, but it can come up in other contexts.
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Old 08-25-2019, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern Piper View Post
You'd be surprised at the number of visitors from south of 49 who don't seem to get this point.



It often comes up in relation to trying to bring guns across the border, apparently on the assumption that the 2nd Amendment applies world-wide, but it can come up in other contexts.
I won't even try to imagine why they try to bring their guns in.

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Old 08-25-2019, 04:22 PM
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I won't even try to imagine why they try to bring their guns in.
Generally hunting, and it's not all that hard, as long as you know the law and comply with it in advance. It's generally not gangbangers going to Regent Park, but hunters going to northern Ontario. You know, the same places your own gun-owning hunters go to.
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Old 08-25-2019, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Balthisar View Post
Generally hunting, and it's not all that hard, as long as you know the law and comply with it in advance. It's generally not gangbangers going to Regent Park, but hunters going to northern Ontario. You know, the same places your own gun-owning hunters go to.
From watching Border Security itís also people going from WA to AK and donít understand that there are different laws in the middle part.
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Old 08-25-2019, 04:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FinsToTheLeft View Post
You realize that Canada is a completely separate country with our own immigration laws?
Uh, yes. But I've been on cruises to lots of other countries and I'm unaware of that kind of background check.
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Old 08-25-2019, 05:17 PM
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Uh, yes. But I've been on cruises to lots of other countries and I'm unaware of that kind of background check.
Other than the United States, you mean?

Having a criminal record in a foreign country can get you barred from entry into the US.

Canadian convicted for indulging in a bit of BC bud 20 years ago? No US trip for him!
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Old 08-25-2019, 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Northern Piper View Post
Other than the United States, you mean?

Having a criminal record in a foreign country can get you barred from entry into the US.

Canadian convicted for indulging in a bit of BC bud 20 years ago? No US trip for him!
I'm pretty sure Voyager did mean other than the United States. If he's taking a cruise that starts in the US , he wouldn't know whether anyone else who wanted to take that cruise had been denied entry to the US and therefore didn't board. But there have only been two situations where I had to fill out customs forms while still on the ship and had some/all passengers interviewed by customs/border control before leaving the ship. One was this recent cruise to Alaska, where customs forms had to be reviewed by Canadian officials before anyone could leave in Victoria (and some were called for an interview) and the other was on a Canada/New England cruise, where everyone was interviewed by US CBP before being allowed off at the first US port ( we went to a couple of Canadian ports first, although I'm not sure what the purpose of the interview was, since the cruise started in the US). Never encountered anything like that in Mexico, the Bahamas or Bermuda - which doesn't mean no one checked to see if I was admissible in those places, but does mean I wouldn't know about it unless I was denied entry.

Last edited by doreen; 08-25-2019 at 05:56 PM.
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Old 08-25-2019, 11:05 PM
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The stops in Canada on the Alaska cruises are explicitly to get around the Passenger Vessel Services Act.

The act prohibits foreign built and owned ships from operating domestically with foreign built, owned and manned vessels. They have to have a real stop in Canada in order to operate on that route.

There is only one cruise ship in the entire world today (Pride of America) that has permission to work directly between US ports.

Thus you actually have to "enter" or leave from Canada on any Alaska cruise ship.

Last edited by rat avatar; 08-25-2019 at 11:05 PM.
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Old 08-25-2019, 11:34 PM
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The difference AFAIK is that the US and Canadian border guards have full access to each others' police databases. I don't think that's the case with most other countries.

There was a report of a (handicapped) woman from Canada who was denied entry to the USA because her name appeared in a 911 database police report - she'd attempted suicide at one point and so that detail and her name were in the ambulance report in the police database. She was denied entry due to mental instability. A fellow where I worked was 55 years old and in questioning, admitted to a conviction as a juvenile (records should be sealed). He was denied entry.

The Americans can bar entry for any and all reasons, not just convictions. Admit to having had a toke once upon a time, they can say "you've admitted to an act that would be a crime in the USA, you are denied entry for grounds of moral turpitude." Conversely, DUI is a more serious crime in Canada than in some states, admit to it and Canada will deny you entry.

Last edited by md2000; 08-25-2019 at 11:36 PM.
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Old 08-26-2019, 01:13 AM
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Originally Posted by FinsToTheLeft View Post
From watching Border Security itís also people going from WA to AK and donít understand that there are different laws in the middle part.
This happens at least once a month locally, since a major border crossing on the way to Alaska is an hour south of town, at the north end of I-15. I hear about it on local media and see it in the local courthouse.
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Old 08-26-2019, 10:53 PM
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A friend of mine who used to work in Canada Customs encountered that from time to time with Americans bringing guns into Canada.

She said that when they were advised that they had likely committed a criminal offense and their guns would be forfeited, it was not uncommon to get the angry rejoinder : "I'm an American! I have a constitutional right to those guns!"

So forgive us up here if we assume that Americans coming north either don't know or don't believe that the laws are different north of 49.
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Old 08-27-2019, 10:47 AM
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Of course, Hollywood doesn't help - movies show assorted baddies and hero vigilantes seemingly coming off planes in assorted European cities with the necessary arsenal to complete whatever mayhem they need. keep in mind all luggage is XRayed before boarding the aircraft. OK, I get it for those who probably pick up their weapons after they arrived in the diplomatic pouch, (Yeah, right). But I don't recall ever seeing a movie where they wonder "How will I get this firearm through customs in London?" and here seems to be the assumption, too, that the guy with the trunk and hard suitcase full of firepower for sale is a fixture in every large city.
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