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  #401  
Old 01-21-2019, 08:28 PM
Little Nemo Little Nemo is offline
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Originally Posted by octopus View Post
Do you honestly think that race, gender, w/e classification is a better variable than socio-economic class to use for preferential treatment?
Let me guess. You want to abolish the programs for helping victims of racism or sexism right now. And you might get around to setting up a program for helping poor people someday.
  #402  
Old 01-21-2019, 08:54 PM
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I think the real issue is that having quantifiable metrics takes away many tools that the Democrats use to exploit the populace. Furthermore, treating people as equals and holding people to same standards neuters the Dems ability to use language as a bludgeon.
I totally believe you think that's a coherent thought. You're kind of dimwitted, though.
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Let me guess. You want to abolish the programs for helping victims of racism or sexism right now. And you might get around to setting up a program for helping poor people someday.
Exactly. I've got a brilliant and irascible gamer friend who's also a hardcore Marxist and who has utter contempt for intersectionality theory, because he thinks class is the proper axis upon which to base revolutionary change. It's a damn sight different hearing him say it from hearing a rightwing scold like octopus say it.
  #403  
Old 01-21-2019, 09:49 PM
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Originally Posted by WernhamHogg View Post
Huey attacks people's (non-white) wives and children on a message board. If you think that's not exactly the kind of bitterness King was talking about, please tell me what he was talking about.
"I don't have a problem with a black man protesting racial injustice; I just wish they would quit being so, you know, angry. They're scaring the kids! Heck, they're scaring me, too!"
  #404  
Old 01-21-2019, 10:04 PM
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"I don't have a problem with a black man protesting racial injustice; I just wish they would quit being so, you know, angry. They're scaring the kids! Heck, they're scaring me, too!"
Oh, for fuck's sake, you whimpering idiot: mocking children and spitting on the concept of adoption is not protesting racial injustice by any definition of that phrase. Fuck you for insulting every person who has ever actually protested racial injustice by conflating the concepts, fuck you for spitting on adopted parents and children by joining with Huey Freeman in this ridiculous way, and fuck you for being a whimpering idiot in general.
  #405  
Old 01-21-2019, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by asahi View Post
An utterly stupid post that in no way addresses the substance of what you responded to.
I thought it was poetic and wise. Fine, whatever.
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Originally Posted by asahi View Post
From "What the fuck is wrong with Huey Freeman" to Stormfront.

Congrats, white people. Huey probably somehow knew it would end up like this.

Now, for the educated among us, here's what you need to take with you from this thread: people who subscribe to Stormfront's vision of America can become CEO's of companies. They can become landlords. They can become neighborhood watch vigilantes. They can become bank loan officers. They can become mayors, governors, sheriffs, congressmen, Senators, and even President. The Huey Freemans of the world? Not so much.

Think about that. Racism, real racism, is more about actual power and the ability to abuse others than it is about a fantasy to do so.
I take your point to be that Huey's racism doesn't matter, because he can't do anything about it. Here, he has as much power as anyone: He can use words to influence other people's thoughts and feelings. IRL, we don't know how much power he has. He's a black man with a job. He may be homeless; he may be a CEO. He may even be lying and be a Russian agent or last spring's prom queen.

I think Kant had a point when he said that the only thing that's absolutely good is the good will. A good person is good even if they're tied to a chair. A murderer doesn't become good because they're in prison, and a bigot without much power is still a bigot.

We've talked about less important things here than black racism. We've talked about the legal status of Godzilla and proper strategy in Middle Earth. And how often have you saved the world by posting, anyway, that we're now wasting valuable time?
  #406  
Old 01-21-2019, 10:58 PM
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Don't worry, he's said that he will teach us.
  #407  
Old 01-21-2019, 11:40 PM
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Based on what I’ve read of folks with radical politics, I think the answer to the OP’s question might be this: some people have been so hurt by the current system of culture, government, and economics that they think that anyone who doesn’t advocate its complete overthrow is complicit in its endurance. They seem to think that white people (and other privileged folks) are severely underestimating (or worse, dismissing) the severity, scope, and negative effects of racism in this country. In that POV, a lot of the arguments against Huey Freeman would come off like Trump supporters scolding liberals for “not being nice” to Nazis, and that you catch more flies with honey than vinegar and all that. They feel literally existentially threatened by racism, capitalism, or what have you, and think that (a lot of? Most?) people who disagree with them are at best indifferent to the suffering they and their loved ones are going through.

This is, admittedly, not necessarily the case in this particular situation, but it’s something that I’ve noticed about a lot of the more vocal and hardcore socialists I come across online, for example. How much do you REALLY care about the poor and disabled and such if you’re not behind fundamentally changing or overthrowing the very system that makes them directly suffer?
  #408  
Old Yesterday, 12:01 AM
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I totally believe you think that's a coherent thought. You're kind of dimwitted, though.

Exactly. I've got a brilliant and irascible gamer friend who's also a hardcore Marxist and who has utter contempt for intersectionality theory, because he thinks class is the proper axis upon which to base revolutionary change. It's a damn sight different hearing him say it from hearing a rightwing scold like octopus say it.
Of course it would seem different but thatís because your simple.

Like support for open borders, if the left were actually honest about the why's of their belief system how much power would you really have? By disguising your motives you have damaged the nation with your nonsense.
  #409  
Old Yesterday, 12:56 AM
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Of course it would seem different but thatís because your simple.
...goooooodnight, everyone!
  #410  
Old Yesterday, 01:37 AM
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Of course it would seem different but thatís because your simple.

Like support for open borders, if the left were actually honest about the why's of their belief system how much power would you really have? By disguising your motives you have damaged the nation with your nonsense.
If we were simple-minded, dishonest, and had disgusting motives, why would we be arguing with you? We'd be in full agreement and campaigning for Trump.
  #411  
Old Yesterday, 01:48 AM
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Like support for open borders, if the left were actually honest about the why's of their belief system how much power would you really have? By disguising your motives you have damaged the nation with your nonsense.
What are the why's of our belief system? How would revealing them change our "power"? What motives have we disguised? Do you believe in the Illuminati?
  #412  
Old Yesterday, 05:24 AM
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Of course it would seem different but thatís because your simple.

Like support for open borders, if the left were actually honest about the why's of their belief system how much power would you really have? By disguising your motives you have damaged the nation with your nonsense.
We're not disguising anything. The problem is that you fuckers are just too fucking thick to realize that building a wall won't stop the illegal immigrants who will simply find ways to enter through legal ports of entry by way of human smuggling or visa fraud, or they will simply overstay and disappear. It's you disgusting pieces of shit who are dishonest about your anxieties and apprehensions about all immigration, legal or otherwise. Conservatives are driven by fear not facts, which is why they buy into conspiracy theories and fake news. The world in which conservatives live is a dangerous jungle filled with non-white venomous predators.
  #413  
Old Yesterday, 05:40 AM
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Oh, for fuck's sake, you whimpering idiot: mocking children and spitting on the concept of adoption is not protesting racial injustice by any definition of that phrase. Fuck you for insulting every person who has ever actually protested racial injustice by conflating the concepts, fuck you for spitting on adopted parents and children by joining with Huey Freeman in this ridiculous way, and fuck you for being a whimpering idiot in general.
It's not your idea of protesting, but protesting can come in many forms. It can be holding hands with white people and walking through the streets, or it running around the streets and throwing rocks. Or it can be neither of those things. Maybe it's refusing to be friendly to white people until they can demonstrate a commitment to building a society that is more equitable.

And for the record, Huey didn't necessarily mock a child or spit on the concept of adoption. I acknowledge that what he said was offensive to Shodan, and I think he meant it to be. I wouldn't have said it, but I don't necessarily characterize it the same way that others have.

On the subject of cross-cultural adoptions and marriages: I'll say that having lived in Asia, I've met a lot of white people who despite all their cross-cultural exposure were still obviously racist. Having adopted a daughter from China or having married a woman from Thailand doesn't automatically make someone less racist. Thomas Jefferson impregnated Sally Hemmings. He was still very much a white supremacist, albeit the ones of 'nicer' ones among the people of his day.
  #414  
Old Yesterday, 08:29 AM
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It's not your idea of protesting, but protesting can come in many forms.
If attacking adopted kids is protesting, then you've already lost the battle.
  #415  
Old Yesterday, 08:52 AM
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Maybe it's refusing to be friendly to white people until they can demonstrate a commitment to building a society that is more equitable.
That’s fine. But to the extent that refusal to be friendly to white people involves making ludicrously false claims, it’s fair game to respond. Huey’s lack of politeness doesn’t bother me; calling me a cross burner for no reason other than I’m white does bother me a little. Claiming that white people are all literally inbred autists will prompt a response — particularly around here.



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Having adopted a daughter from China or having married a woman from Thailand doesn't automatically make someone less racist.
Sure, but so what? Absolutely nobody disagrees with that. The idea is not so much “Shodan is not racist” as it is “Shodan didn’t purchase a trophy daughter that he cares about only as an object.”
  #416  
Old Yesterday, 09:34 AM
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Like support for open borders, if the left were actually honest about the why's of their belief system how much power would you really have?
Back when I was younger and stupider, I had a lot more tolerance for wacky beliefs, such as libertarianism. I worked with a hard-left dude (who was absolutely horrible in other ways, but I digress), and we talked politics. When I defended libertarianism, he made essentially the same argument: if I were actually being honest about libertarianism, I'd admit it was morally vacuous.

Around the same time, I sat on a Greyhound next to a hard-right Catholic (sedevacantist, if that means anything to you). He made the same argument: if I were actually being honest about spirituality, I'd admit that the Catholic god was the only plausible god.

And around the same time, I chatted with a Hare Krishna. If I were actually honest, he insisted, I'd try the hare krishna chant for several weeks and realize it was the only true path to enlightenment.

The "if you're actually honest about" approach to politics is sincerely held by many stupid people. It's a shortcut to argument, allows you to conclude that the only reason anyone would disagree with your brilliant logic is that they must be lying.

The alternative is to consider carefully the views of your opponent, allowing for the possibility that their views are reasonable and well-founded. That can be scary.

Especially for dumbasses.

Last edited by Left Hand of Dorkness; Yesterday at 09:35 AM.
  #417  
Old Yesterday, 11:52 AM
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What are the why's of our belief system? How would revealing them change our "power"? What motives have we disguised? Do you believe in the Illuminati?
Illuminati? No. Reptile people? Maybe.

Look, Iím sure many on the left are sincere. Naive but sincere. However, quite a few just parrot the superficially nice sounding concepts to gain social standing and political power.

You want to know why socialism and communism is always just one more try away of doing it right this time? Because of left wing dupes. People want power. They say the right things to get mob support. Itís like a religion or a cult exploit the masses with good sounding nonsense and rule them.

Thatís why Huey is troublesome here. In a hive of liberalism he exposes that modern liberalism is not about a consistent set of beliefs.
  #418  
Old Yesterday, 12:37 PM
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I think part of Huey's problem is that he can't see the distinction between White People Privilege, and Sane People Privilege. He knows he doesn't have the first. He doesn't know why he doesn't have the second.

Regards,
Shodan
  #419  
Old Yesterday, 02:31 PM
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We're not disguising anything. The problem is that you fuckers are just too fucking thick to realize that building a wall won't stop the illegal immigrants who will simply find ways to enter through legal ports of entry by way of human smuggling or visa fraud, or they will simply overstay and disappear. It's you disgusting pieces of shit who are dishonest about your anxieties and apprehensions about all immigration, legal or otherwise. Conservatives are driven by fear not facts, which is why they buy into conspiracy theories and fake news. The world in which conservatives live is a dangerous jungle filled with non-white venomous predators.
Hitler was white. Stalin was white. Seems like those would be your type of white people.
  #420  
Old Yesterday, 02:35 PM
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Back when I was younger and stupider, I had a lot more tolerance for wacky beliefs, such as libertarianism. I worked with a hard-left dude (who was absolutely horrible in other ways, but I digress), and we talked politics. When I defended libertarianism, he made essentially the same argument: if I were actually being honest about libertarianism, I'd admit it was morally vacuous.

Around the same time, I sat on a Greyhound next to a hard-right Catholic (sedevacantist, if that means anything to you). He made the same argument: if I were actually being honest about spirituality, I'd admit that the Catholic god was the only plausible god.

And around the same time, I chatted with a Hare Krishna. If I were actually honest, he insisted, I'd try the hare krishna chant for several weeks and realize it was the only true path to enlightenment.

The "if you're actually honest about" approach to politics is sincerely held by many stupid people. It's a shortcut to argument, allows you to conclude that the only reason anyone would disagree with your brilliant logic is that they must be lying.

The alternative is to consider carefully the views of your opponent, allowing for the possibility that their views are reasonable and well-founded. That can be scary.

Especially for dumbasses.
You realize that many who are fervent advocates and followers of an ideology or a religion are led by those who use that particular belief system as a tool to manipulate? I wouldnít be so worried about modern liberalism if one of their tenets wasnít the worship of a supreme state.
  #421  
Old Yesterday, 03:21 PM
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You realize that many who are fervent advocates and followers of an ideology or a religion are led by those who use that particular belief system as a tool to manipulate?
I realize you think that. "Many" is ill-defined, and your evidence is sparse. I tend to think that most leaders believe the core beliefs they espouse, and the true con artists are relatively rare.
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I wouldn’t be so worried about modern liberalism if one of their tenets wasn’t the worship of a supreme state.
Let me set your mind at ease, then! That's a ridiculous fuckin belief about modern liberalism.

Last edited by Left Hand of Dorkness; Yesterday at 03:21 PM.
  #422  
Old Yesterday, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by asahi
It's not your idea of protesting, but protesting can come in many forms. It can be holding hands with white people and walking through the streets, or it running around the streets and throwing rocks. Or it can be neither of those things. Maybe it's refusing to be friendly to white people until they can demonstrate a commitment to building a society that is more equitable.
Cunting around on a message board like you and Huey do is absolutely no-oneís idea of protest.
  #423  
Old Yesterday, 05:06 PM
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You realize that many who are fervent advocates and followers of an ideology or a religion are led by those who use that particular belief system as a tool to manipulate? I wouldnít be so worried about modern liberalism if one of their tenets wasnít the worship of a supreme state.
What I realize is that your views on liberalism are as accurate as asahi's views on conservatism. And your views on race are pretty much the equivalent of Huey's.
  #424  
Old Yesterday, 05:13 PM
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[QUOTE=asahi;21444653]It's not your idea of protesting, but protesting can come in many forms. It can be holding hands with white people and walking through the streets, or it running around the streets and throwing rocks./QUOTE]

Throwing rocks isn't protest -- it's assault.

You know it's not simply a choice between between "kumbaya" and "burn baby burn!". Ever heard of that "excluded middle"?

Last edited by Guinastasia; Yesterday at 05:13 PM.
  #425  
Old Yesterday, 05:15 PM
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You realize that many who are fervent advocates and followers of an ideology or a religion are led by those who use that particular belief system as a tool to manipulate?
You forgot to claim that this statement doesn't apply to you, your ideology, or your religion. You could fix this by putting an "other peoples'" language in there. Let me help you:
You realize that people other than me who are fervent advocates and followers of an ideology or a religion other than mine are led by those who use that particular belief system as a tool to manipulate, unlike the person I idolate. Sad!
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  #426  
Old Yesterday, 06:04 PM
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What I realize is that your views on liberalism are as accurate as asahi's views on conservatism. And your views on race are pretty much the equivalent of Huey's.
So treating people equally and Huey’s use of language, which if it were directed at a so-called special sample of a protected class would result in a ban, are equivalent?

Last edited by octopus; Yesterday at 06:04 PM.
  #427  
Old Yesterday, 06:05 PM
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You forgot to claim that this statement doesn't apply to you, your ideology, or your religion. You could fix this by putting an "other peoples'" language in there. Let me help you:
You realize that people other than me who are fervent advocates and followers of an ideology or a religion other than mine are led by those who use that particular belief system as a tool to manipulate, unlike the person I idolate. Sad!
Maybe it does apply to me and Iím too blind to see it?
  #428  
Old Yesterday, 06:09 PM
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So treating people equally and Hueyís use of language, which if it were directed at a so-called special sample of a protected class would result in a ban, are equivalent?
If you could try to stop being stupid, and pay attention, it'd do you a world of good.
  #429  
Old Yesterday, 06:13 PM
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If you could try to stop being stupid,
"You can't fix stupid" - Ron White
  #430  
Old Yesterday, 06:21 PM
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"You can't fix stupid" - Ron White
Current fad in education is praising effort, not results.
  #431  
Old Yesterday, 07:04 PM
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So treating people equally and Hueyís use of language, which if it were directed at a so-called special sample of a protected class would result in a ban, are equivalent?
No, I was trying to be nice to you.

Huey's open about his racism. You're as racist as he is but you try to hide it with claims that you just want to treat people equally.
  #432  
Old Yesterday, 07:45 PM
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I thought it was poetic and wise. ...
I thought so, too--I noticed that post and admired it.

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  #433  
Old Yesterday, 07:57 PM
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No, I was trying to be nice to you.

Huey's open about his racism. You're as racist as he is but you try to hide it with claims that you just want to treat people equally.
I must be channeling Orwell tonight. As it can only be double speak and double think to state and believe equality is bigotry. I wonder what itís like living in a mad head.
  #434  
Old Yesterday, 08:11 PM
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I must be channeling Orwell tonight. As it can only be double speak and double think to state and believe equality is bigotry. I wonder what itís like living in a mad head.
If you let a sick patient die because treating them would be treating them unequally, then you're a goddamned idiot. If you only make such a refusal in cases in which the sickness is caused by the socially dominant group of which you're a part, then it may be bigotry that leads to your behavior.

Likeliest it's both: bigotry with a candy coating of idiocy.
  #435  
Old Yesterday, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Left Hand of Dorkness View Post
If you let a sick patient die because treating them would be treating them unequally, then you're a goddamned idiot. If you only make such a refusal in cases in which the sickness is caused by the socially dominant group of which you're a part, then it may be bigotry that leads to your behavior.

Likeliest it's both: bigotry with a candy coating of idiocy.
This sick patient/healthy person analogy is dumb and you should feel dumb for propagating it.
  #436  
Old Yesterday, 10:01 PM
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The idea that blackness is a kind of illness is kind of offensive actually.
  #437  
Old Yesterday, 10:40 PM
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For fuck's sake
  #438  
Old Yesterday, 10:53 PM
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The idea that blackness is a kind of illness is kind of offensive actually.
Good grief. Blackness ain't the illness. White supremacy is. Get better at reading analogies.
  #439  
Old Yesterday, 11:02 PM
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Get better at making them.
  #440  
Old Yesterday, 11:04 PM
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Get better at making them.
  #441  
Old Yesterday, 11:45 PM
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Current fad in education is praising effort, not results.
That's how education has always worked.

Whether some people who were called educators were too stupid to realize that makes no difference to the fact education is defined as making progress from ignorance to enlightenment.
  #442  
Old Today, 12:31 AM
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For fuck's sake
I'm sorry about your thread.

I liked the parts about not making fun of autistic people and not talking bad about women.

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  #443  
Old Today, 12:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Paranoid Randroid View Post
Thatís fine. But to the extent that refusal to be friendly to white people involves making ludicrously false claims, itís fair game to respond. Hueyís lack of politeness doesnít bother me; calling me a cross burner for no reason other than Iím white does bother me a little. Claiming that white people are all literally inbred autists will prompt a response ó particularly around here.
Okay, so it gets a response. I get that Huey, and and of himself, doesn't seem like a particularly constructive force for good here on SDMB.

But if there's one thing you can say is that he reminds you that America can't always count on Black Americans to predictably behave like Ghandi, or King, or Obama whenever they've been slapped in the face. Some Black Americans advocate giving the finger and slapping the fuck back.

And the problem that black Americans have always had is that, being the minority, they've always depended on a certain percentage of white Americans having just enough humanity to reject their inherent genetic, socio-cultural advantages that come with being white, which isn't easy in a society that rewards whites for just playing the racist game.

Martin Luther King became an icon because he was ultimately a "safe Negro." And for many blacks, just having even a quarter of the white population interested in equal protection under the law was an accomplishment from their vantage point. So King became the natural inter-cultural bridge: the fearless leader that black Americans needed, and the "safe" little negro that whites hoped for and insisted upon if they were going to give up their privilege.

And yet here we are in 2 thousand and mother fuckin 19 and not a god damn thing seems to have changed much, despite having a black man as president. All that did was ring the fire bell in the night for white America, who feared losing their country. We're now stuck with the most stridently racist presidential administration since Woodrow Wilson.
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Old Today, 02:17 AM
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Beckdawrek Beckdawrek is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trafalgar Laura View Post
I'm sorry about your thread.

I liked the parts about not making fun of autistic people and not talking bad about women.
# me too.
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