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Old 09-21-2018, 09:52 AM
Gyrate Gyrate is online now
Join Date: Nov 2000
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To be fair, when some people say "existential threat" what they mean is "I don't like change", as if change - including demographic change - wasn't and hadn't always been constant. The amount of mass migration required to pose an actual existential threat to America would be at a minimum in the tens of millions over a very short period of time. Less than that, and what you've got is just another in a long series of migration waves in American history.
Old 09-21-2018, 01:30 PM
Zeke N. Destroi Zeke N. Destroi is offline
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Originally Posted by tomndebb View Post
I would say that the religious groups that championed Prohibition tended to be the predecessors of the current Evangelicals.

The increase in organized crime and related issues changed a lot of minds on the issue of Prohibition, but the religious groups that promoted it tended to be the predecessors to today's Evangelicals.
Having repeated the assertion, do you have a cite to support it beyond, "I would say?"

Last edited by Zeke N. Destroi; 09-21-2018 at 01:30 PM.
Old 09-21-2018, 02:46 PM
lonesome crow lonesome crow is offline
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Posts: 16
quote by lonesome crow:
one God in three <edit>

Sorry, i missed the editing button, tried to copy and paste from wiki, i meant;

"one God in three Divine Persons"
Old 09-21-2018, 03:42 PM
senoy senoy is offline
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Originally Posted by Zeke N. Destroi View Post
Having repeated the assertion, do you have a cite to support it beyond, "I would say?"
He doesn't. It would be a hard thing to prove. It also really depends upon the time period. You can divide Prohibition work into two periods pre-1905 and post-1905. The pre-1905 group were largely Northerners from established denominations. Their politics would probably be described today as left-leaning. They stressed education over legislation and viewed Prohibition as a way to help the poor. The WCTU came out of the early years. The Anti-Saloon League gradually took over the talking points and a guy named Wayne Wheeler is really who turned Prohibition into an Amendment. He was... shall we say strident in his beliefs. He's an interesting fellow to read about, but he basically invented the idea of grassroots movements and popular mobilization efforts. Unfortunately, he was a little bit nuts. A good comparison might be if the Nazi party had decided it hated booze instead of Jews. He really turned the anti-alcohol movement from a liberal one to a more conservative one. Largely he did this because Prohibition's roots were all in the north and midwest. It was basically staid, solid farm people and wealthy upper class women who saw alcohol as oppressing the people. Wheeler recognized that that constituency had taken the movement as far as it could take it and the place that was really holding up the anti-alcohol movement was the south. They basically didn't give a rip. Alcohol had firm support throughout the south and Wheeler went about trying to change that. He did so largely by stoking immigrant fears (Yeah, we've had that playbook for awhile now.) He allied with groups like the KKK and other anti-immigrant groups throughout the south to advance a narrative that alcohol and immigrants went hand in hand. They began to see Prohibition as a victory of nativists. You see by WWI, that political cartoons show alcohol as being the nefarious servant of Germans to advance their will in the US. Here's a particularly revealing cartoon from the period

Once Wheeler and the ASL had the south on board, it was only a matter of time. They had advanced the anti-immigrant agenda forever and by WWI, Germany with its reputation for brewing was seen as a pro-alcohol country and by standing up for Prohibition, you were actually standing up against Germany. Of course, what happened is that after the war the new allies in the south decided they liked alcohol after all as well as seeing how Prohibition was not hurting, but aiding organized crime that was largely immigrant in flavor and completely abandoned the movement. Anti-prohibitionists in the north were able to peel off many of the liberals particularly among women that were formerly in the WCTU when they invoked the idea that the crime that Prohibition brought brought more suffering than the alcohol.


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