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  #101  
Old 04-17-2018, 02:22 PM
Try2B Comprehensive Try2B Comprehensive is offline
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What does a $400/hr escort look like? "Just like a queen from a sailor's dream." What else? I am not sure how seeking out the specific details will make you feel any better.
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Originally Posted by Blindsided2 View Post
Thank you, I appreciate the feedback. Its reassuring to hear "from a random dude" that this isn't the norm. It is hard not to feel that 'all guys are doing this stuff; its wishful thinking there are some that don't- they just hide it better.'
I am just an internet rando, but FWIW I have never paid for sex or massage parlors or anything like that, not even once. Sure, I have thought about it, even fantasized about it, but poking holes in my own fantasy has always stopped my from following through. I suspect there is No Way reality could live up to the hype, and all I will accomplish is making myself feel bad for crossing that line. It just seems like a bad idea.

So there ya go. I'm not "hiding it better"- why would I lie? One example of a guy who never got mixed up with that particular problem. AND- I absolutely do not get along with my mother, in case that is a red flag or something...
  #102  
Old 04-17-2018, 03:31 PM
Plumbkrazy Plumbkrazy is offline
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Originally Posted by Blindsided2 View Post
He says he had nothing to do with me, he just wanted to experience all the sex he didn't get to in hs and college.
That's bullshit. He was cheating because he's selfish and lacks the maturity and character to "deprive" himself of something he wants. This applies to all cheaters. There is no valid excuse.

Not to mention the potential physical assault. He may not have punched you, but contracting HIV or herpes from your spouse isn't exactly a kiss on the forehead.
  #103  
Old 04-17-2018, 03:41 PM
Ambivalid Ambivalid is online now
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Let's just keep in mind that sex addict =/ cheater. They are not by any means necessary bound together. They often can be, and because of that I think opportunist cheaters latch on to it as an excuse. But sex addiction is a very real, if over-diagnosed condition. I don't know if the husband of the OP is a genuine addict or not but my relatively ignorant opinion of their situation is he is one of the "latchers-on" opportunists.
  #104  
Old 04-17-2018, 04:38 PM
DavidwithanR DavidwithanR is online now
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Originally Posted by Ambivalid View Post
This strikes me as semantics. People don't change themselves but they do change things about themselves? Isn't what makes a person who they are simply a collection of "things"?
In some ways yes, in other ways no.

My ex dumped me after finding out that the reason I'm bad at planning is I do not have the physical ability to keep the future in mind. My "mind's eye" is defective (among other lovely things). I can work to compensate for that, to some degree, under controlled circumstances. I can't cause my odd brain to become normal by willpower.

She promised to stay with me in sickness and in health, but clearly believed that her promise didn't count if "sickness" meant "stays disorganized and appears irresponsible".

And though I was angry and hurt at the time, I'm glad she left, because life with a contemptuous spouse is not good. I found someone better for me. Luckily my ex wasn't able to have kids, or things would have been much more complicated.

But... Yes, there indeed are all kinds of things that are unchangeable about you, about me, and about everybody. And there are all kinds of other things that are changeable, but only with disproportionate effort and only with temporary results.

And you can often tell the difference with a minimum of observation and a little logic. My poor-quality "mind's eye" frequently makes me look stupid, and frequently causes me serious difficulty. It has been (provably) this way since I was six years old, and one can assume it was like that beforehand as well. If I had the ability to change it, surely I would have - I have numerous obvious motives to do so, and I gain nothing by not fixing it.
  #105  
Old 04-17-2018, 04:50 PM
Nawth Chucka Nawth Chucka is offline
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Originally Posted by Ambivalid View Post
Let's just keep in mind that sex addict =/ cheater. They are not by any means necessary bound together. They often can be, and because of that I think opportunist cheaters latch on to it as an excuse. But sex addiction is a very real, if over-diagnosed condition. I don't know if the husband of the OP is a genuine addict or not but my relatively ignorant opinion of their situation is he is one of the "latchers-on" opportunists.
Agreed; it sounds like an reverse-engineered excuse common in the Christian circles that teach any porn watching is an addiction. 'I didn't want to pay and have sex w/ all those hookers but the public crisis of pornography compelled me against my will. Wow, porn is super bad!'
  #106  
Old 04-17-2018, 04:52 PM
Ambivalid Ambivalid is online now
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I never said every single aspect or trait of a person is able to be changed. You were nowhere near that specific in the post i responded to. You said, if i recall correctly, that people change things, people don't change selves.
  #107  
Old 04-17-2018, 05:00 PM
DavidwithanR DavidwithanR is online now
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Originally Posted by Ambivalid View Post
I never said every single aspect or trait of a person is able to be changed. You were nowhere near that specific in the post i responded to. You said, if i recall correctly, that people change things, people don't change selves.
You're right, I did. What I said there was maybe useful, but definitely oversimplified and definitely wrong in the strict sense.
  #108  
Old 04-17-2018, 05:04 PM
DavidwithanR DavidwithanR is online now
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Originally Posted by Nawth Chucka View Post
...in the Christian circles that teach any porn watching is an addiction...
Blindsided2, would it be fair to say your community more or less fits that description?
  #109  
Old 04-17-2018, 05:19 PM
nearwildheaven nearwildheaven is online now
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Originally Posted by Nawth Chucka View Post
Agreed; it sounds like an reverse-engineered excuse common in the Christian circles that teach any porn watching is an addiction. 'I didn't want to pay and have sex w/ all those hookers but the public crisis of pornography compelled me against my will. Wow, porn is super bad!'
I'm Christian, and I agree.

There is a BIG difference between people who use porn as part of their sex life, whether alone or with a partner, and people who would spend every waking moment looking at it, which isn't as common as some people think it is, and people who can't get aroused without it or who force their partners to do things they've seen on porn videos that the partner doesn't want to do. This post was deliberately gender-neutral because women and LGBT people can have these issues.
  #110  
Old 04-17-2018, 05:21 PM
Ambivalid Ambivalid is online now
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Originally Posted by nearwildheaven View Post
people who would spend every waking moment looking at it, which isn't as common as some people think it is
How did you come to learn this information?
  #111  
Old 04-17-2018, 05:24 PM
nearwildheaven nearwildheaven is online now
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Originally Posted by DavidwithanR View Post
In some ways yes, in other ways no.

My ex dumped me after finding out that the reason I'm bad at planning is I do not have the physical ability to keep the future in mind. My "mind's eye" is defective (among other lovely things). I can work to compensate for that, to some degree, under controlled circumstances. I can't cause my odd brain to become normal by willpower.

She promised to stay with me in sickness and in health, but clearly believed that her promise didn't count if "sickness" meant "stays disorganized and appears irresponsible".

And though I was angry and hurt at the time, I'm glad she left, because life with a contemptuous spouse is not good. I found someone better for me. Luckily my ex wasn't able to have kids, or things would have been much more complicated.

But... Yes, there indeed are all kinds of things that are unchangeable about you, about me, and about everybody. And there are all kinds of other things that are changeable, but only with disproportionate effort and only with temporary results.

And you can often tell the difference with a minimum of observation and a little logic. My poor-quality "mind's eye" frequently makes me look stupid, and frequently causes me serious difficulty. It has been (provably) this way since I was six years old, and one can assume it was like that beforehand as well. If I had the ability to change it, surely I would have - I have numerous obvious motives to do so, and I gain nothing by not fixing it.
It sounds like you have executive function issues, which means that your ability to plan ahead is seriously compromised. Your wife was wise to leave if she was unhappy with this, because a person like that can be extremely difficult to live with, and that you didn't have kids was a major blessing, because a person who lives only in the here and now would make a terrible parent.
  #112  
Old 04-17-2018, 06:04 PM
Blindsided2 Blindsided2 is offline
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Hi all, the original intention of the post was to learn about the world of escorts. I received alot of great feedback and points to consider. I appreciate everyone taking the time to both share their thoughts and be sensitive to my situation. I will respond to some of the questions that have come up since people have taken their time to ask them... however I think the thread has taken a turn from my original question to is addiction real, is he just using addiction as an excuse for bad behavior, if God is real why why did he allow this and am I only considering staying or believing this because I am in christian circles that ... implies maybe they are alittle weak minded, gullible or too believing?

First, I do believe he has a full addiction. I didn't share everything involved or my conflicted feelings because that wasn't the point of the original post. To imply that just because someone doesn't do anything all the time or occasionally doesn't mean that it isn't an addiction. There are alot of points to consider if it is an addiction but a couple are have you tried to stop your behavior and failed, swore it off each time but keep returning like a dog to it's own vomit (my visual picture) and have a consulsive aspect to it. These all apply and more. The amount of shame and devastation is very apparent and not because he's crying because he got caught. I don't know how to explain the brokenness I see in my husband over ... the actions...and what I am still considering his choices even though counselors are telling me that he had poor coping skills and this was well ingrained in him years before he and I met. This man risked his life, safety, career, health, family to pursue sex. That isn't just a guy trying to have fun on the side. In AA there is a term as functional drunk. They appear fine to everyone but once they drink- they are still a drunk. They may not drink often but when they do it's a full drunken nightmare. The same can be the same here. You all are not pointing out anything that I haven't already thought about- trust me. I really have struggled about maybe immediate porn use was an addiction but how can it be an addiction if it is planned out/thought about for weeks- to me that just seems like a choice. People are telling me that is part of the addiction- maybe I will or won't really get it one day but it is there. I did end up asking my husband about this the other night. He was hesitant to tell me but did- I only asked how he picked these girls in brothels.
  #113  
Old 04-17-2018, 06:52 PM
Blindsided2 Blindsided2 is offline
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One thing that stood out to me was that in one of the brothels the 10 women who came in where behind a glass wall- he could see them but he didn't think they could see him. he felt shame being there was such bad intentions. At another one each girl was brought in to intruce themselves one by one but didn't make alot of eye contact. He said it was something he feels shame about and questions how he used to think he was a good person but a good person doesn't do this stuff so he is wrestling with this.

Am I only buying the "addiction excuse" because I am being influenced by religious people? No. I was raised without religion..i was so cynical of Christianity and the "foolish' kids who believed it. Ihad a Saul/Paul conversion and becme a Christian as a young adult...got hurt in the church and walked away (damn SINNERS!! lol) ..came back...some what less "on fire" than I was before. Now readying the S-ANON book- I am stuggling with the steps to trust a greater power. One one hand, I feel like God could use this to heel me of some old wounds- my husband and my marriage could be healed too. But I am still pretty angry about Him allowing this to go on so long- let me have kids- etc while I was trusting in this God. I am now wondering if God really cares about specific plans about our lives- We all have choices- He had his to act this way and I had mine to marry him years ago. Anyway, I have people of various beliefs speaking into my life. I am not taking the "just pray about it approach" and neither is my husband. One thing it has taught me is maybe my faith in God wasn't as strong as I used to think and I need to focus on my own life, dreams and goals. I am going back to school in the fall to finish my degree so if I need to I will be in a better position to support me and the kids. (I would be perfectly okay though between alimony and child support).

I do believe addicts can change if they want to for themselves. It is very hard. And they do have slips and relapses. My mother was an alcoholic and got sober when I was 6. She was sober for 30 years and then relapsed because she questioned if addiction was really a life long illness. It started with wine coolers and ended up with her trying to drive me home drunk which something she always made me promise never to do when I was a kid. She ended up back at AA and has been sober again for the last 7 years.

My biggest struggle is the severity of his sex addiction and the risk a relapse could have on my health. If he went back to escorts- the addict in him would probably go back to hiding it to avoid the pain of me taking the kids and leaving. Something that will weigh alot in my decision on what path to take. For now, I am learning as much as I can. Looking at my own incorrect thinking about myself and my ability to control any of his sobriety- and frankly what would attract me to a man like this and keep me with him so long. You have to be really broken if you stay right? I would tell anyone else to get the heck out but for some reason- I am willing to stay for a year and see how this works out. I can always decide to divorce later- and I will be in a better place to do so. IF I rush to divorce right now- it will distract me the feelings I am having and I will likely end up with another SA in the future. Also, if I leave I would move states and get a job. There would be little time to focus on my healing. IF I stay- I have ample time to go through all the grieving without having to get up at 7am and perform at work. We are not intimate and are doing an in-house separation so it is working for me and us at this time. Again, that can change at any point.

It is really nice to hear the guys that say they have never cheated - because frankly when you are in this world of sex addiction with all the women who's husband's have- it's hard not to think all men are secretly lusting after other women and eventually will cheat. (For the record, I have met several female addicts too but that doesn't affect me.) People tell me to leave- that I am beautiful and smart etc- to find a guy who would be faithful. It's hard to believe though that there are any guys left though that aren't lusting after 20 year old girls. I am 42 years old with 2 young kids. Let's be real, that will not make me popular one dating sites. lol

Anyway. thanks for your comments. We can all move on to the next monthly topic... was it plushies??
  #114  
Old 04-17-2018, 07:54 PM
Enola Gay Enola Gay is offline
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Blindsided2, I know you are getting a lot of unsolicited advice in this thread. I just want to say that I believe you are going about this the right way. You aren't caving to emotion or anger, but are being very practical and moving forward with your eyes wide open.

The one thing that needles at me is that I think this has had a devastating blow to your self esteem, which comes across in your posts. I think you know intellectually that this has nothing to do with you & is ALL about him and his issues. But it seems to me that emotionally you believe that you somehow don't measure up to hot 20 year olds & won't appeal to other men at 42 (with 2 young kids). Don't sell yourself short--you are a very worthy person who is in a bad situation due to your husbands actions. Others have made the same point, I'm just saying it again for emphasis. Hang in there!
  #115  
Old 04-17-2018, 08:17 PM
TubaDiva TubaDiva is offline
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I don't know that it does either of you any good to keep asking about the mechanics of the situation and giving your husband the third degree, though it's certainly given us a lot to think and talk about.

It all really has nothing to do with you whatsoever except you are the shining beacon of goodness in his story of good and bad.

This is a deeply felt and seriously wired thing with your husband -- his sense of what is right and wrong, good and bad is the greater issue.

The sex is a bonus.

Because he sees himself as a bad person, that gives him permission to do bad things with other bad people. And the accompanying feeling of frisson that goes with it, the excitement and the fear from doing something forbidden, that only bad people do, that's the thrill. And afterwards he gets to wallow in the guilt of doing these bad things to such a good person because he is bad. So it all gets reinforced and around and around he goes.

I can't imagine that he will ever give this up, because it's bad. Because he is bad.
Which is also too bad. For you mostly.

It could be worse. Often guys who feel like this also become fearful that their good thing, that woman that is too good for them will find some truly more deserving man that will take them away and leave their sorry asses. That's when guys keep women trapped in houses and monitor their behavior and stalk them to make sure they're exactly where they said they were going ... and they hit those women to keep 'em in line.

Good luck with this.
  #116  
Old 04-17-2018, 08:37 PM
Beckdawrek Beckdawrek is online now
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Is there any other abuse in the marriage? Was your husband sexually abused as a child?
  #117  
Old 04-17-2018, 09:10 PM
nearwildheaven nearwildheaven is online now
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Originally Posted by Blindsided2 View Post
I do believe addicts can change if they want to for themselves. It is very hard. And they do have slips and relapses. My mother was an alcoholic and got sober when I was 6. She was sober for 30 years and then relapsed because she questioned if addiction was really a life long illness. It started with wine coolers and ended up with her trying to drive me home drunk which something she always made me promise never to do when I was a kid. She ended up back at AA and has been sober again for the last 7 years.
Whoa. This explains a LOT about how you ended up in a marriage like this in the first place.
  #118  
Old 04-18-2018, 07:10 AM
DavidwithanR DavidwithanR is online now
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Blindsided2:

Your questions to him...

I know you feel better when you ask. I know you feel disoriented when you don't ask. I know from an outsider perspective, but I do still know. Those questions - all of them, including the ones you may come up with later - are counterproductive. You are spinning your wheels. It's time for the curious/concerned/confused/hurt/incredulous questions to end, for good. You already know what you can know. There is no further value to be gained from questioning - it will really help you to just trust that fact, and do other things.
  #119  
Old 04-18-2018, 07:54 AM
Corry El Corry El is offline
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Originally Posted by Nawth Chucka View Post
Agreed; it sounds like an reverse-engineered excuse common in the Christian circles that teach any porn watching is an addiction. 'I didn't want to pay and have sex w/ all those hookers but the public crisis of pornography compelled me against my will. Wow, porn is super bad!'
'Porn addiction' is not a Christian concept. Looking at any porn is a sin according to traditional Christian concepts, certainly in Catholicism (Protestant sects' beliefs can vary almost without limit). It's degrading your God given gift of sexuality and contributing to the self-degradation and/or exploitation of the performers. Same as frequenting 'escorts' or other in person sex-for-money practices.

Would people from religious backgrounds (traditionalist Muslims and Jews among others see porn viewing as sinful also) sometimes accept the *modern secularist* concept of 'porn addiction'? Sure. It might have some validity in some cases though *way* overhyped in my personal opinion. Would individual religious people use 'addiction' as their excuse if busted? Of course some would. If an excuse is offered, even previously rejected by a person when it applied to others, the person might take it when jammed up themselves. That's basic human nature AFAIK.

Similarly individual people or small Protestant sects can come up with any cockamamie take on Christianity they want to, it's a free country, but blaming your sins on somebody else as in 'the public crisis of pornography compelled me against my will to pay for sex' is fundamentally non-Christian according to any definition of the mainstream over centuries.
  #120  
Old 04-19-2018, 02:26 AM
DavidwithanR DavidwithanR is online now
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Originally Posted by Corry El View Post
'Porn addiction' is not a Christian concept. Looking at any porn is a sin according to traditional Christian concepts, certainly in Catholicism (Protestant sects' beliefs can vary almost without limit). It's degrading your God given gift of sexuality and contributing to the self-degradation and/or exploitation of the performers. Same as frequenting 'escorts' or other in person sex-for-money practices.

Would people from religious backgrounds (traditionalist Muslims and Jews among others see porn viewing as sinful also) sometimes accept the *modern secularist* concept of 'porn addiction'? Sure. It might have some validity in some cases though *way* overhyped in my personal opinion. Would individual religious people use 'addiction' as their excuse if busted? Of course some would. If an excuse is offered, even previously rejected by a person when it applied to others, the person might take it when jammed up themselves. That's basic human nature AFAIK.

Similarly individual people or small Protestant sects can come up with any cockamamie take on Christianity they want to, it's a free country, but blaming your sins on somebody else as in 'the public crisis of pornography compelled me against my will to pay for sex' is fundamentally non-Christian according to any definition of the mainstream over centuries.
Yes, understood.

American "Christianity" (of the type common in the Evil Belt) is I think doing a different thing. The addiction thing seems less a cop-out and more a vehicle for parading one's self-righteousness - "Dear Lord, I just ask that you make me superior to that slimy bastard over there, but you already know I really am superior aren't I, Thy will be done, amen" - or for creating a false demon to make a show of overcoming.
  #121  
Old 04-19-2018, 12:13 PM
LurkerInNJ LurkerInNJ is offline
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Originally Posted by Ambivalid View Post
This is comically untrue. True, there may be some women out there who are that delusional that they believe their man (any man) doesn't look at porn. But they are by far the exception, not the rule. And it's definitely a joke that if any man were unlucky enough to encounter one of these women that they would lie if confronted about their porn viewing habits.
There are a lot of women out there like that. I have more than one friend who insists that their man tells them that they don't need to look at that stuff because they are all they need. Uh, ok.
  #122  
Old 04-19-2018, 12:23 PM
LurkerInNJ LurkerInNJ is offline
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Originally Posted by Blindsided2 View Post

It's hard to believe though that there are any guys left though that aren't lusting after 20 year old girls. I am 42 years old with 2 young kids. Let's be real, that will not make me popular one dating sites. lol
You don't know that. I'm in my very late 50's and men hit on me all the time. I'm very fit and attractive.

Christie Brinkley is a senior citizen.

https://www.si.com/swimsuit/model/ch.../2017/photos#2
https://www.si.com/swimsuit/model/ch.../2017/photos#3

That is a 63 year old woman in a bikini. If you take good care of yourself, you will have a lot of men wanting your attention.
  #123  
Old 04-19-2018, 01:07 PM
madmonk28 madmonk28 is offline
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Blindsided2, I recently listened to a podcast which included tapes from a therapy session about a couple going through exactly what you are experiencing. Perhaps it would be helpful to you as you try to put your husband's behavior into perspective. It is the Act 2 entitled Two Can be as Sad as One at this link: https://www.thisamericanlife.org/617/fermis-paradox
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