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  #201  
Old 07-27-2018, 12:38 PM
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Note to self - never invest a penny in Hudson Bay Master Fund Ltd, who apparently thought lending Moviepass $5 million was a sound investment.
  #202  
Old 07-27-2018, 12:53 PM
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Taking bets! One week? One month? Three months?

Make your call!
  #203  
Old 07-27-2018, 12:54 PM
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Our neighbor was offered the annual deal, but I guess the wife and I don't rate that, as we've heard nada.
Looks like you dodged a bullet.
  #204  
Old 07-27-2018, 12:55 PM
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Whelp, this might just be it. Moviepass has filed with the SEC that there has been a service interruption due to lack of funds.
This is after they did a 1-for-250 reverse stock split (a couple of days ago) to get the stock from eight cents to twenty bucks. Now it's at $2.61.
  #205  
Old 07-27-2018, 12:57 PM
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Yeah, at noon the original price would have been 1.5 cents per share.
  #206  
Old 07-27-2018, 01:25 PM
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Taking bets! One week? One month? Three months?

Make your call!
Five million is enough for about a week of business, though I expect passholders to up their viewing to squeeze value before that runs out.
  #207  
Old 07-27-2018, 02:09 PM
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I think the 5M was just to pay off debts to WorldPay, not to fund new purchases. They still have no $$ to load on cards.
  #208  
Old 07-28-2018, 05:48 AM
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Yep, this is the final death throes, they'll probably be going for another week. They've already de-listed Mission Impossible simply to save money, which is a desperation measure, and they've got surge pricing on a ridiculous number of films in a pattern that makes no sense, which again is just desperation to lose a little less so they can keep going for another week or two. What that buys them, I don't know.

They did some stock market stuff (reverse split?) just to keep the share price high enough to remain on the Nasdaq but lost like 80% of that since then.

Ah well, it was good while it lasted. Made me realize how few good movies are coming out that I hardly go to the movies even when it's free/already paid for. I think I averaged like 2.2 movies a month or something. We don't have an arthouse theater here and so I only really get a chance to see the medium to big movies, and there just haven't been many in the last year. Wall to wall comic book movies.
  #209  
Old 07-28-2018, 11:25 PM
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It’s made me realize just how many good movies are released each month! I hope eticketing manages to hold on til Monday so I can see RBG.

Last edited by Eyebrows 0f Doom; 07-28-2018 at 11:26 PM.
  #210  
Old 07-29-2018, 02:28 PM
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Service is kind of useless now. Surge pricing is a joke. At my favorite theatre today every showtime of every movie has a surcharge of 6 or 8 dollars. Almost all 8. So now I'm paying 10 a month for a small discount on tickets but with extra hassle.
  #211  
Old 07-29-2018, 05:51 PM
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I got the $8 per month plan but had to pay for a year up front, but now I'm glad for that because I don't get the surge pricing add-on. I was going to go see Mission Impossible Friday to use MoviePass while they still had money, but since that wasn't an option saw Three Identical Strangers instead, and it was really good. Then I went to see Blindspotting today also using MoviePass. I've already got my money's worth so I'm just going to keep enjoying it while it lasts.

I've heard that AMC has a good MoviePass-like program, but there aren't really any AMCs convenient to me. If Regal starts a program I'll probably sign up for it. I'm guessing MoviePass won't last for much longer, but the idea behind it will live on in other programs that have their math figured out better.
  #212  
Old 07-29-2018, 11:14 PM
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Service is kind of useless now. Surge pricing is a joke.
Working as intended, I bet.

Keeping surge pricing to two or three bucks means they're losing slightly less money on every ticket. Choking out certain markets altogether means a lot less bleed, and even losing a bunch of customers gives them more time to do whatever voodoo they're trying to do to stabilize their stock and secure more money.

Cancelling a plan locks customers out of resubscribing for a year, but I bet we'll see a new (and much more limited) plan that anybody can sign up for even if they're in that lockout period.

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I got the $8 per month plan but had to pay for a year up front, but now I'm glad for that because I don't get the surge pricing add-on.
Yep, and I've got the better part of a year left on mine. If we take as a given that MoviePass is ultimately doomed, I'm good with tactics that let them limp along for as long as possible.

Last edited by Johnny Bravo; 07-29-2018 at 11:17 PM.
  #213  
Old 07-30-2018, 12:41 AM
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Whelp, this might just be it. Moviepass has filed with the SEC that there has been a service interruption due to lack of funds.

https://www.businessinsider.com/movi...rce=reddit.com

Last night around 5:30pm or so, all cards started being declined nationwide, and today the service is still down (with all showing of Mission Impossible 6 greyed out and unable to be purchased even if the check in worked.) E-ticketing theaters still work, but I would now be surprised if they last til Monday. I just bought an E-ticket for MI:6 tonight, it might well be my last Moviepass film.

My first movie was "American Made" and possibly my last might be MI:6! Tom Cruise seems to have bookended my Moviepass life.
My daughter says that it’s still working for her (Orange County, CA). I don’t want them to cancel the service the day after her next membership fee is deducted from her checking account, so I’ve told her to keep an eye on their status and be ready to cancel at a moment’s notice.

Last edited by kaylasdad99; 07-30-2018 at 12:42 AM.
  #214  
Old 07-30-2018, 12:50 AM
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E-ticketing is currently still up and running (I just bought a ticket for tomorrow night) but reddit is reporting that regular check-ins have been disabled for almost the entire weekend. I don’t know if they will be back up tomorrow or not. I’m going to just use e-ticketing for the week until the company totally runs into the ground. I will be surprised if it lasts much into August.
  #215  
Old 07-30-2018, 01:16 AM
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It'll be hilarious if this creates a run on movie tickets, as every member tries to milk their account for as much as possible before they shut down.

Oh well. Thanks for all the tickets, MoviePass. It's been real.
  #216  
Old 07-30-2018, 06:42 AM
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It's beyond me what brain trust thought that this was a good idea.
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  #217  
Old 07-30-2018, 10:35 AM
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So right now the app isn't showing any new movies as playing in my area. Not greyed out as "premium showings" but simply not appearing for me. They've also removed the "unlisted showing" option so I can't buy a ticket that way. The MP subreddit seems to be reporting a lot of this.

As with the screwed up surge pricing, I'm guessing this is a money-saving feature disguised as technical difficulties.
  #218  
Old 07-30-2018, 12:57 PM
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It's beyond me what brain trust thought that this was a good idea.
Those who got their money out early, same as any other Ponzi scheme.
https://markets.businessinsider.com/...8-7-1027407886
  #219  
Old 07-30-2018, 05:14 PM
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It's dead now. I can't really complain about what I've got out of moviepass but their death throes are really ugly. They're Baghdad Bobbing it and are pretending it's technical problems instead of just admitting the death.
  #220  
Old 07-30-2018, 05:19 PM
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More death tolls.
  #221  
Old 07-30-2018, 10:56 PM
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Hey, it works again. Roller coaster bankruptcy.

I have some movies listed in the local theater and no peak pricing even. I may try to sneak in a movie if they don't go out of business again in the next hour.
  #222  
Old 07-31-2018, 03:46 AM
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I actually managed to see a movie tonight with no surcharge or anything. It was almost like the service I signed up for, except Mission Impossible and apparently future blockbusters are off limits.

It was strange, I almost felt like I was doing something wrong or sneaky by using the service. I guess I feel like I was rushing in there to catch a movie before another outage or perhaps the final one.
  #223  
Old 07-31-2018, 05:00 PM
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Moviepass


There have been threads about this in the past, how do people feel about them now with the surge pricing, monthly cost increasing to $15 (up from $10) and the blackouts on new releases?

I'm considering switching to Sinemia. The elite plan for $10 offers 2 films a month, and includes 3D films ($7 for 2 films a month w/o 3D). I didn't like how moviepass doesn't include 3D.

https://www.sinemia.com/new-plans

Even with unlimited films on moviepass, I usually only watched about 2 films a month. There weren't enough films at the cinema that I felt it was worth going, even with the subscription service. Driving to the cinema, sitting through commercials, not being able to pause the film, etc. are all things that I do not have to deal with at home watching a movie. So a movie had to be halfway good for me to bother to watch it.

Are other people sticking with them? Cancelling? Using another streaming service?

Other than Moviepass, sinemia and the AMC stubs list, are there other options?
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Last edited by Wesley Clark; 07-31-2018 at 05:02 PM.
  #224  
Old 07-31-2018, 05:10 PM
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If you have Cinemark theaters in your area, there's the Cinemark Movie Club. $8.99 per month for which you get one 2D movie ticket with subsequent tickets for $8.99 each. What I like is if you book online, you don't have to pay the fee for selecting your seat.
  #225  
Old 07-31-2018, 05:13 PM
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AMC's doing it, as is Cinemark as mentioned. Regal appears to have something in development.

I'd offer that in two years - maybe less - Sinema won't be functional. Why would any of the big chains want to honor someone else when they can offer their own product?
  #226  
Old 07-31-2018, 06:06 PM
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I'm not sure I get the appeal of cinemark movie club. If you live in an high cost of living city like LA or NYC, where movie tickets are $20 its probably a good idea. But in Indiana a movie ticket runs $5-10 on average so thats about as much as I'd pay anyway.

I think Sinema sounds like my best option so far, mostly because I like the idea of seeing 3D movies and rarely see more than 2 movies a month (they have a 3D option that is 3 movies a month for $15, two for $10).
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  #227  
Old 07-31-2018, 08:37 PM
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And we're back to "no more screenings at this theater today"
  #228  
Old 07-31-2018, 09:37 PM
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I've also heard that Atom Tickets is good, with membership after you get 4 tickets you get 1 free.

My Movie Pass membership is a yearly membership that lasts until November, but I'll be following this thread to see what alternates switch to.
  #229  
Old 07-31-2018, 09:54 PM
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$15 is still a steal. I want to see just how it will go with the blackouts of certain showtimes and 1,000+ releases being blocked for two weeks, but I can still just watch indie films first and then catch up on the large releases after two weeks (if their stated plan is actually what happens and they don't change it again.)

I just saw my 78th film (not counting repeats) tonight ("The Cakemaker") since getting my card in October of last year.

Last edited by Eyebrows 0f Doom; 07-31-2018 at 09:56 PM.
  #230  
Old 08-01-2018, 09:23 AM
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$15 is still a steal. I want to see just how it will go with the blackouts of certain showtimes and 1,000+ releases being blocked for two weeks, but I can still just watch indie films first and then catch up on the large releases after two weeks (if their stated plan is actually what happens and they don't change it again.)

I just saw my 78th film (not counting repeats) tonight ("The Cakemaker") since getting my card in October of last year.
I think moviepass is a good deal for people like yourself who watch a lot of cinema movies. But while researching it, I saw that 88% of moviepass users only see 2 or fewer films a month. I fall into that group. I just can't be motivated to go to the cinema unless there is something I really want to watch because I have so many streaming options at home.
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  #231  
Old 08-01-2018, 10:26 AM
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Just in case you are not aware, Movie Pass is owed by Helios & Matheson. Last week their stock was at about 9 cents a share.

They did a reverse share of 250:1 and it raised the price to over $20/share overnight.

Today not even a full week later the stock is back down to 26 cents (as of 8-1-18 10:20am CDT).

That means it's worth less than ONE TENTH of ONE CENT pre reverse split.

The reason I am saying this, is it cruising toward bankruptcy at an accelerated rate. If you want MP fine, but make sure you are able charge back (use a credit card, not debit card) and use it quickly before the company goes under.

Here's a link to the company on Stocktwits, makes fun reading, unless you're an investor (Sorry to anyone who invested)

https://stocktwits.com/symbol/HMNY
  #232  
Old 08-01-2018, 10:32 AM
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I just don't understand how they expect this to ever work. Did they think it would be like gym memberships were only 10% actually use it?
  #233  
Old 08-01-2018, 10:33 AM
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I just don't understand how they expect this to ever work. Did they think it would be like gym memberships were only 10% actually use it?
Yes. Or that they'd eventually have enough of a subscriber base that they could strongarm theater chains into cutting them ticket deals. Or both.
  #234  
Old 08-01-2018, 11:21 AM
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An article I read recently on the company said that if you see more than fourteen movies each year, the service is going to lose money (based on the nationwide average nine-dollar cost of a movie ticket). It's even more of money loser for people in high-cost areas.
  #235  
Old 08-01-2018, 11:24 AM
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I just don't understand how they expect this to ever work. Did they think it would be like gym memberships were only 10% actually use it?
Yes, exactly. Mrs. Cups and I both have the AMC pass which "forces" us to go to 4 movies a month in order to make it cost effective. This is perfect for the summer when it's action blockbusters galore, but once the fall and winter hits we'll be lucky to find a single movie in a month we're really jazzed about.

It's probably no coincidence these passes came out now.
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  #236  
Old 08-01-2018, 11:44 AM
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An article I read recently on the company said that if you see more than fourteen movies each year, the service is going to lose money (based on the nationwide average nine-dollar cost of a movie ticket). It's even more of money loser for people in high-cost areas.
I might have read the same article. I was astounded to learn that Moviepass didn't have any kind of relationship with the theaters giving them discounted rates. They just paid the same rate for tickets as anyone else. It sounds like their business model was to hope a whole lot of people bought subscriptions but never used them.
  #237  
Old 08-01-2018, 12:14 PM
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Their stated business model was to sell the subscribers' personal information -- e.g., tell local restaurants of your moviegoing habits so you get targeted marketing. They'd never done the groundwork to set that up, though, so they've been scrambling to monetize subscribers' data (and not succeeding, apparently).

Their implied business model was that once they had enough subscribers and data that could demonstrate how much business they were "providing" to movie chains, they could make threats to those movie chains and thereby force them to grant MoviePass a cut of the profitable concessions sales. This, of course, made most all of the movie chains super un-enthusiastic about MoviePass.

The actual business model they seem to have settled on is to hype their brand, claim that selling volume offsets the increasing lots that each additional unit sold incurs, borrow lots of money until no one will loan them any more, then enter bankruptcy and find new jobs by marketing how big of a business they started. They're currently at the "no one will loan them any more" stage of that plan.
  #238  
Old 08-01-2018, 01:19 PM
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I've got the AMC version and it's been great for the summer as I've seen quite a few of the summer blockbusters in IMAX. I'm sure that'll change as we move into fall, with fewer new releases, and then Oscar bait, which usually doesn't need to be seen in IMAX.

So, I can see how AMC would make money, even if I'm not always buying concessions. I'm sure I"ll be down to one or two films a month in fall, especially with baseball playoffs and football season. And, of course, Navy Pier is basically shut down from after Halloween until spring, so going to the IMAX there isn't as appealing unless it's a film that needs the IMAX.

Moviepass reminds me of a 1999 dot com startup with no real business plan.
  #239  
Old 08-01-2018, 01:29 PM
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There's a lengthy thread about MoviePass here which talks about a lot of the recent shenanigans.

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Moviepass reminds me of a 1999 dot com startup with no real business plan.
They had a plan, five years ago, when it cost $30 a month and was marketed towards movie buffs and they were attempting to reach co-marketing deals with theater chains.

Then they all smoked a bunch of crack and decided they needed dramatic Hockey Stick Growth to attract new venture capital and changed to their current completely-unsustainable pricing model in the hopes that an influx of new subscribers could buy them negotiating power and allow them to borrow against subscription revenue.

I feel the original plan could have been successful and profitable as a niche product, if they kept the subscription price at a sustainable level and managed to negotiate kickbacks with select theaters. But they wanted to go big or go home. They went home.

Last edited by friedo; 08-01-2018 at 01:30 PM.
  #240  
Old 08-01-2018, 02:17 PM
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Yeah, their business model relied on people buying passes evenly across all markets, instead of predominantly in $15/ticket markets, and only expected to break even from the subscription part. They wanted to sell data and use their size to negotiate discounts, but since no one epxects them to last now they don't have any leverage. I wouldn't count on them staying in business for long, so even if you go with them you should go ahead and figure out what your backup plan is.
  #241  
Old 08-01-2018, 03:12 PM
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As I wrote in the original thread when they announced the cheaper price, there was no way it could last and was doomed. I'm glad people got to see cheap movies while they could. it sounds more and more to me like this was just a venture capitalist money grabbing scheme by the owners.

The AMC plan makes a lot more sense. Theaters barely make money on tickets anyway and just want you in the door to buy popcorn.
  #242  
Old 08-01-2018, 03:52 PM
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Their stated business model was to sell the subscribers' personal information -- e.g., tell local restaurants of your moviegoing habits so you get targeted marketing. They'd never done the groundwork to set that up, though, so they've been scrambling to monetize subscribers' data (and not succeeding, apparently).
The thing is how much is that data worth? I can't imagine it's more than a few cents per customer.
  #243  
Old 08-01-2018, 04:33 PM
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Yes, exactly. Mrs. Cups and I both have the AMC pass which "forces" us to go to 4 movies a month in order to make it cost effective.
Isn't AMC Stubbs A-List $20 a month? Or do you have really cheap AMC theaters near you?
  #244  
Old 08-01-2018, 04:58 PM
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The thing is how much is that data worth? I can't imagine it's more than a few cents per customer.
That you don't know how much the data is worth is not surprising, you're some guy on the internet. The fact that, as far as anyone can tell, the company also had no idea is a bit more of an issue.
  #245  
Old 08-01-2018, 07:17 PM
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I just don't understand how they expect this to ever work. Did they think it would be like gym memberships were only 10% actually use it?
About 88% of users only saw 2 films a month or less. Including me. Had the plan only consisted of people like that, it probably would have worked.

The issue seems to be the small % of users who see many many films. I guess that is why all the streaming alternatives have hard upper limits. Sinemia limits you to 2-3 films a month. AMC stubs limits you to 3 films a week.
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  #246  
Old 08-01-2018, 07:18 PM
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Isn't two films a month still more than the sub is worth?
  #247  
Old 08-01-2018, 08:03 PM
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Yes, it is. As I mentioned, the nationwide average cost of a movie ticket is nine bucks, so the two-ticket-per-month customer is costing them $18 per month while the revenue is only ten bucks per month.
  #248  
Old 08-01-2018, 08:24 PM
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The cost is considerably more than $9 per ticket on average.

Seriously, there's overhead, admin, staffing, merchant services and processing, insurance, debt service and a host of other costs associated with running a business. I'd be very surprised if only 2 tickets per month broke their bank. I wouldn't be surprised if one ticket per month broke their bank.

What they needed, and early in the game, is to either get a discount on tickets or a piece of concessions. With neither of those happening, it's not surprise they couldn't last. Hell, WITH those happening I think it'd be a chancy proposition.
  #249  
Old 08-01-2018, 08:43 PM
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I've always suspected that their original business model didn't include some of the kludginess of their current system (e.g., only able to buy one ticket per app / phone, needing to use the separate debit card), but as they started to go to market, they discovered that they had to do it that way, and some of those probably added to their expenses, too.

When the other thread on MoviePass started, last year, it was when they had just reduced their pricing. It was clear to me, from that point, that they were going to be burning through cash like mad, and that they were doing that in order to build up a big enough business (enough members, enough data) to entice someone to buy them out before they ran out of money.
  #250  
Old 08-01-2018, 11:22 PM
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Apparently MP managed to pay back that payday loan they took out (20% interest for less than a week) so they've got some sort of funding coming from somewhere. Earlier today, I looked at the service today around 4pm and saw that 3 movies, all with 10pm showtimes or later, were available on the app. This was at a 16 screen theater, so not only should there have been showtimes before 10pm (obviously), but even if for some reason we were restricted to the last showtime, there should've been more movies available. But one of the 3 was one I wanted to see, so I had actually planned to go, but now when I look we're back to "no screenings at this location"

So apparently if you actually want to see a movie, you'll have to see which few movies have one showtime available on the app, go purchase them early, then go back to the movie theater later. Until the randomness of the service changes tomorrow. Must be really annoying to be on your way to a theater that shows a screening and then cancels everything by the time you get there.

If you live near AMC theaters, they revealed their own A-list subscription service which is $20 a month for 3 movies a week, but you can do normal online reservation, and that includes special 3d and big screen showings at no extra charge. If my normal theaters were AMC I'd probably give it a try. I'm hoping either Regal or preferably Galaxy comes out with their own version of this. The lasting impact of moviepass might be having theaters themselves come up with their own subscription service, where the business model can be far more viable because they don't pay full retail price for tickets and because they make money on the increased attendance due to concessions.
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