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Old 07-18-2019, 11:10 AM
teela brown is offline
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Watched the first episode of series 4 of Grantchester


And now I have a question. Sorry if this is in the wrong forum, but I can't tell which one to put it in.

In this double episode, we see that a civil rights group from Alabama has come to Grantchester to speak at the village on the issue of race relations in 1950s America. This group seems based on the family and associates of Martin Luther King.

To get to the speaking venue, the group has to walk a gauntlet of English bigots holding up signs of hatred and intolerance.

My question: was this a thing in England? I know very well the crap that MLK and company had to face here in America, but did England have this kind of organized bigotry?
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Old 07-18-2019, 11:33 AM
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Unlikely that such a public show of it would be launched in such a relatively iconic village so near Cambridge - it would have been thought bad manners, at the least, and making a public exhibition of oneself. And whatever people's private opinions on racial matters in this country, they didn't think much of your average Alabama police chiefs and their behaviour either.

There were overt displays of bigotry in less posh parts of bigger UK cities, leading to vile violence in some places in the late 50s, but the perpetrators wouldn't have been interested in political demonstrations of their bigotry against Americans - they were focussed on their (largely West Indian neighbours). The likes of the League of Empire Loyalists (middle-class and still Tories in those days) were more interested in colonial policy which (however much some of them might have dreamt otherwise) didn't include the US. Out and out neo-fascist racists were still a small lunatic fringe and didn't start gaining any visibility until the late 60s/early 70s.

At a wild guess, I'd imagine this is a case of the producers becoming aware of an American audience and introducing somewhat more "Americanised" dramatic elements.
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Old 07-18-2019, 12:00 PM
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At least the show runners were smart enough to

SPOILER:
. . .get a new vicar. The other guy was making me crazy with his angst bullshit and his story arc had clearly played out.
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Old 07-18-2019, 05:08 PM
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Chefguy, yes.

SPOILER:
I adore Sidney, but the drinking and whining were starting to get me down. Who is he, Penny from The Big Bang Theory? The new guy seems fine, and already has a bit of chemistry going with Geordie.

I loved the Violet Todd character. She got in Sidney's face and told him to shape up, which was needed. Plus, her clothes are adorable and spot-on for the 1950s.
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Old 07-19-2019, 12:14 AM
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Plus, her clothes are adorable and spot-on for the 1950s.
That's another minor irritation about so many period-set shows. The visuals (clothes, hairdos, cars, furniture) tend to look thoroughly researched, but all too often there are glaring anachronisms in the actual dialogue, which somehow jar more when the period concerned is within living memory (well, mine anyway): it really wouldn't have taken much thought to spot the kind of slang that's only come in in the last few decades.
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Old 07-19-2019, 07:14 AM
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At least the show runners were smart enough to

SPOILER:
. . .get a new vicar. The other guy was making me crazy with his angst bullshit and his story arc had clearly played out.
I think that was deliberate,
SPOILER:
to explain why he had to leave. I think they showed him drinking a lot more in this season than previous ones.

By the way, I assume that the vicar is leaving because the actor wants to move on to movie roles, but I'd like to see a follow-on series in which he and Violet Todd try to live as a married mixed-race couple in 1950s Alabama.
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Old 07-19-2019, 08:46 AM
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By the way, in case it's not obvious, that first episode that aired on Sunday July 14 on PBS in the US was actually the first two episodes of the fourth series. For whatever reason, PBS chose to combine them and run them in one two-hour slot.
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Old 07-19-2019, 09:39 AM
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I loved this series, but I pretty much hated this first double-episode of season 4. I haven't forgiven Sidney for dumping Amanda and the baby and "choosing God." Really dumb. And now he's basically doing it anyway?? And yeah, his drinking was getting to be a drag on the series.

Didn't care for Violet and I saw NO chemistry between her and Sidney. But what bugged me the most was the really BAD Southern accents! Heck, most Americans who aren't from the South can't even do a Southern accent. So why should the Brits be able to do it, eh? Except Kenneth Branagh--he probably could.

I'll keep watching, 'cause I like the setting. And I LOVE Leonard--the character has grown so much since he first joined the series. I also love Geordie. If y'all have never seen Robson Green in Wire in the Blood-- holy crap! Wonderful, creepy, brilliant series. Based on novels by Val McDermid. It took me weeks to get that series out from under my skin.

Willing to give the new guy a chance.
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Old 07-19-2019, 01:25 PM
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Robson Green has always been the reason Mrs. C and I watch the series, with Mrs. Chapman and Leonard also being well-written and acted, but we've always found the Sidney character too hard to take seriously.
I read an interview last week where James Norton explained his reasons for asking to be written out of the story - He wanted to move on to new parts, and he felt that the ending of the previous season had effectively finished Sidney's story. Apparently a lot of us agree with him.
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Old 07-20-2019, 10:32 AM
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James Norton had a continuing role in seasons 1 & 2 of the terrific British cop series, Happy Valley that takes place in a setting that is anything but happy.

While watching it, I kept thinking, "Gee, that guy looks so familiar..." but I couldn't place him. Finally I looked him up on the IMDB, and it was Sidney, unrecognizable without that gorgeous head of red hair. Not sure this spoiler warning is necessary, but
SPOILER:
He turns out to be a charming, vicious serial killer! Our Sidney! Say it isn't so!
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Old 07-20-2019, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by ThelmaLou View Post
I also love Geordie. If y'all have never seen Robson Green in Wire in the Blood-- holy crap! Wonderful, creepy, brilliant series. Based on novels by Val McDermid. It took me weeks to get that series out from under my skin.
Available on Acorn TV at $5.99/mo, by the way. Also Amazon Prime, if you want to pay 1.99/ep.
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Old 07-20-2019, 04:12 PM
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Available on Acorn TV at $5.99/mo, by the way. Also Amazon Prime, if you want to pay 1.99/ep.
I subscribe to AcornTV on its own. I subscribed before Amazon offered it. Fantastic British shows. I think the cost is a bargain. I subscribe to BritBox through Amazon also. Love the programs.
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Old 07-22-2019, 08:29 AM
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The second episode was much better. There was actually a case to solve. Geordie looked fabulous in his new suit, as Cathy did in that dynamite dress. So the guy wasn't gay, just a lecherous jerk with good taste in clothes. I'm liking Leonard more and more, but he and the BF should have cooled it in the vicarage kitchen. Zoe Telford gets more beautiful as the years go by. I first saw her in a Lewis episode, "Old Unhappy Far Off Things." Maybe I won't miss Sidney all that much.

Shows that feature the first computers--the ones that filled a whole room--give you an interesting perspective. Especially considering that many of us were sentient beings when those computers first appeared. That a computer as big as bigger than my first apartment should morph in 50-ish years into something a zillion times more powerful that fits in my pocket--mind-bending.
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Old 07-22-2019, 08:36 PM
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I liked the second episode better, too. How will Mrs. C. and Leonard reconcile?

I couldn't quite make out if Mrs. Keating told Geordie about the assault. I suppose not, or Geordie would have been kicking the guy's teeth in pretty promptly.

I thought surely that the computer lab assistant was going to be involved in the triangle. He was gorgeous enough to be "Ganymede", so it seemed reasonable.
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Old 07-23-2019, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by teela brown View Post
I liked the second episode better, too. How will Mrs. C. and Leonard reconcile?
I hope they do quickly. Mrs. C spent the whole first season not liking Sidney, and that was such a drag. I don't know how she will get past this. It's big-- a sin AND a crime?? That will be tough.
Quote:
I couldn't quite make out if Mrs. Keating told Geordie about the assault. I suppose not, or Geordie would have been kicking the guy's teeth in pretty promptly.
I'm pretty sure she didn't. For various reasons (shame, etc.), but mostly because Geordie doesn't want her working anyway. She's probably afraid he will insist she quit, citing hazards of the workplace. AND he will go kick the guy's teeth in.
Quote:
I thought surely that the computer lab assistant was going to be involved in the triangle. He was gorgeous enough to be "Ganymede", so it seemed reasonable.
There certainly has been a proliferation of gay themes, not just here. In the Father Brown bell-ringing episode, turns out there are two women in love.

I loved it when Geordie walked into the gay club and the host complimented him on the suit. He did look fabulous and modern.
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Old 07-23-2019, 09:29 AM
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Geordie and Leonard together were hilarious, particularly on the visit to the Ganymede Club. I'd like to see them together doing more sleuthing; forget the new guy. (And remind me; Geordie does know that Leonard is gay and that he and Daniel are seeing each other, right?) The gay Cambridge mathematician/computer pioneer was obviously meant to suggest Alan Turing. And at the very end did we see the "lab assistant" back in the classroom? Was the suggestion that he was let go, perhaps because of the importance of the work?
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Old 07-23-2019, 09:45 AM
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I thought of Alan Turing, too-- I'm sure it was meant to suggest him.
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Old 07-23-2019, 09:10 PM
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. . . And remind me; Geordie does know that Leonard is gay and that he and Daniel are seeing each other, right?. . .
I don't think it was ever expressly stated, but Geordie and Sidney do seem to know. They're both men of the world and can put two and two together. Mrs. C, however, is a sheltered village woman and didn't suspect a thing.
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Old 07-29-2019, 06:52 AM
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Last night's episode 4 was brutal. Not just the murder, which was creepy enough (didn't see THAT perp coming!), but Cathy's woes at work, and Mrs. C's treatment of Leonard. Will seemed oblivious to her departure. Only two more episodes left in this season.

How is Mrs. C, a strict-constructionist to the max, going to reconcile to Leonard's orientation, which in her eyes is not only a sin, but was a crime in England at that time? Of course, Jesus hung out with sinners, too, and didn't judge them (although in her Book, he had every right to). Or is it more than righteous judgment on her part but outright disgust?

Still not warming up to Will, but I don't dislike him either... not sure what my problem is.

The lecture Cathy's boss gave her is just what I would expect in that era, and frankly, is probably what people still think today. "You've led a sheltered life, and this is just the way things are for women in The Big Wide World. It happens. Get over it. Now Let's just drop the whole thing before you ruin a good man's reputation."

I may just have to hop on Passport and watch the final two episodes.
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Old 07-29-2019, 09:22 AM
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Ok. Not sure how the episodes are numbered. The previous post is about the one with the mom's murder at the isolated, religious farm.
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Old 07-29-2019, 09:14 PM
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You got the episode number right, ThelmaLou. I checked IDMB, where I also saw that a season 5 is listed!

I like Will a lot. He's frank and a bit passionate. I still miss Sidney, but Will's coming along.

I was suspecting grandma early on because as soon as they mentioned the wife wanting to put grandma in a home, I was reminded of an Agatha Christie murder which was quite similar.

Cathy's going to tell Geordie eventually and Geordie is going to kick the shit out of Cathy's boss. Yes, the big boss's lecture was typical and the same scenario is still going on in the real world, or at least it was until a few years ago.
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Old 07-29-2019, 09:20 PM
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I broke down and watched the last two episodes today. I shall say no more at this time, except I felt better at the end. Very glad there's a fifth season, although the imdb doesn't show any real content for it yet. Do we have to wait a whole year?? I guess.
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Old 07-29-2019, 09:27 PM
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Cathy's going to tell Geordie eventually and Geordie is going to kick the shit out of Cathy's boss. Yes, the big boss's lecture was typical and the same scenario is still going on in the real world, or at least it was until a few years ago.
Perhaps Geordie could use some of those detective skills to figure out why his wife is upset? He might start by noting the change in mood corresponded with the anniversary dinner.
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Old 08-06-2019, 08:21 AM
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Yeesh, Will has a repulsive family. His father in particular was hellish.

So he comes from a posh background. Doesn't look like he's rich, though, going forward.

Somewhere along the line, Will learned of Leonard's orientation, though I don't believe the event was explicitly depicted.

Leonard was really pushing it, and was due for getting chinned.
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Old 08-12-2019, 12:06 AM
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teela brown, what did you think of the last episode?

I'll wait to comment in case you haven't watched it yet.
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Old 08-13-2019, 06:49 PM
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I liked the last episode. The actor who plays Leonard Finch (Al Weaver) is knocking it out of the park, and his character is overshadowing Will.

I loved the Cathy Keating/Mrs. C gangup on the pervy floorwalker. Was the big order that Mrs. C placed for real, or was she just pretending in order to get leverage?

Mrs. C is still aggressive towards Daniel. Why? She seems to have gotten over Leonard's orientation, so she might as well include Daniel in that as well.

Will's mother is a piece of work. The estate is in debt and so must be sold. I don't know what she thinks Will can do to keep her in that crumbly old heap. So that drama will carry over into the new season.

Loved the teddy boys.
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Old 08-13-2019, 07:11 PM
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I liked the last episode. The actor who plays Leonard Finch (Al Weaver) is knocking it out of the park, and his character is overshadowing Will.
You are so right! He is such a complex character. Will is just a bland slice of white bread. "My flock needs me"? I don't see him doing any pastoral work.

Quote:
I loved the Cathy Keating/Mrs. C gangup on the pervy floorwalker. Was the big order that Mrs. C placed for real, or was she just pretending in order to get leverage?
That was fantastic! Mrs. C bought the stuff for real. She made a comment at the end about how her husband was going to be surprised when he found out how much she spent.

Quote:
Mrs. C is still aggressive towards Daniel. Why? She seems to have gotten over Leonard's orientation, so she might as well include Daniel in that as well.
This really bothers me. She HASN'T gotten over Leonard being gay. She could turn a blind eye until she caught them kissing. When the three of them were sitting down to talk, she said, "I haven't forgiven yet." It's not her place to forgive! Even if Leonard is living a lifestyle that she thinks is sinful, it's not for her to judge. And here she is, having found love late in her life and she has the gall to deny that to Leonard. The writers better figure out a way to resolve this!

Quote:
Will's mother is a piece of work. The estate is in debt and so must be sold. I don't know what she thinks Will can do to keep her in that crumbly old heap. So that drama will carry over into the new season.
Will didn't show any empathy toward her. He is useless when dealing with emotional situations. Just what you want in a priest.

I miss Sidney. I miss Sidney and Geordie together.
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Last edited by ThelmaLou; 08-13-2019 at 07:14 PM.
  #28  
Old 08-13-2019, 08:32 PM
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I was interested in the portrayal of the Teddy Boys in the last episode. Weird to see a bunch of boys rebelling, in part, by dressing up like Edwardian dandies, with suits, ties and polished shoes. I didn't much like that Mrs Chapman refused to let Daniel visit the parish house but perhaps the idea is that for her to accept Leonard as he was was enough of a step forward for a village woman of the time. And so far Will seems a poor substitute for Sidney Chambers.
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Old 08-13-2019, 10:39 PM
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Looks like they've introduced a love interest with the young school teacher.
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