Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #51  
Old 08-08-2019, 01:16 PM
Damuri Ajashi is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,376
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omar Little View Post
Most gun enthusiasts are also into hand reloading as well. They don't buy ammo.
You can regulate primer. You can cast lead bullets. You can recycle casing. You can even make gun powder. You cannot replicate primer at home. It takes a fairly large operation to make primer, and an even larger one to do so safely. It's not something you can do in your garage.
  #52  
Old 08-08-2019, 01:26 PM
Damuri Ajashi is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,376
Quote:
Originally Posted by begbert2 View Post
I don't believe this for one single instant, unless you True Scotsman "gun enthusiasts" so hard that they're a negligible percentage of the population.
I know a lot of people who have reloading equipment. They don't use them much. So I think it would be fair to say that a lot of gun enthusiasts CAN reload their ammunition but most of them just buy their ammo, because reloading is a PITA.

But I think it is also fair to say that most gun enthusiasts keep hundreds if not thousands of rounds of ammunition on hand at all times.
  #53  
Old 08-08-2019, 01:30 PM
Damuri Ajashi is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,376
Quote:
Originally Posted by Two Many Cats View Post
Well, at least if we did ban guns, we would prove how delusional these gun loving twats are when they rave about how they need their guns in case they need to bring down the government.

One of these folks tried to tell me that a backwoods ragged army once brought down the mightiest European power so that a new nation could become independent. So obviously it could happen again.

I answered, "Oh yeah? Is France going to come in as an ally this time too?"

He just glared at me.
Or that time when a bunch of Afghani tribesmen drove our the soviet union
or when a bunch of Vietnamese drove out America
or when a bunch of iraqis and insurgents bogged down America for over a decade.

But more to the point, we live in a democracy and I don't think the military would go along with a tyrannical government.
  #54  
Old 08-08-2019, 01:39 PM
The Librarian's Avatar
The Librarian is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Delft
Posts: 1,161
Quote:
Originally Posted by RTFirefly View Post
DrDeth is an idiot. I can't stand to see his posts, even on issues where we agree. I've only got three Dopers blocked, and he's one of them.

This bears repeating.
__________________
Oook!
  #55  
Old 08-08-2019, 01:41 PM
Damuri Ajashi is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,376
Quote:
Originally Posted by k9bfriender View Post
We do not just criminalize killing people while drunk, we also criminalize driving while drunk. If you are pulled over, and you are over .08 (in most states), then you get a criminal charge, even if you had not yet had an accident.

As a person with a gun only becomes a criminal once they have used their gun in commission of a crime, your analogy to DUI falls completely apart.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menacing See brandishing

Driving while intoxicated is a crime

Last edited by Damuri Ajashi; 08-08-2019 at 01:41 PM.
  #56  
Old 08-08-2019, 02:22 PM
Czarcasm's Avatar
Czarcasm is online now
Charter Member
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 62,085
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damuri Ajashi View Post
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menacing See brandishing

Driving while intoxicated is a crime
As was already stated in the first sentence of the quote you responded to.
  #57  
Old 08-08-2019, 02:31 PM
QuickSilver is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 18,801
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damuri Ajashi View Post
Or that time when a bunch of Afghani tribesmen drove our the soviet union
or when a bunch of Vietnamese drove out America
or when a bunch of iraqis and insurgents bogged down America for over a decade.

But more to the point, we live in a democracy and I don't think the military would go along with a tyrannical government.
Or when a bunch of high school students had enough and started a movement that over a generation amended the constitution and made guns illegal in a nation full of gun zealots.

See me in 20 years and see if they didn't.
__________________
St. QuickSilver: Patron Saint of Thermometers.
  #58  
Old 08-08-2019, 02:57 PM
Chronos's Avatar
Chronos is online now
Charter Member
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: The Land of Cleves
Posts: 84,714
Why all this focus on 3d printed guns? It's possible to buy a machine that you can hook up to your computer, that will use a design in a computer file to automatically make a high-quality gun. It's expensive, but it's possible. It's been possible for decades. But that machine isn't a 3D printer; it's a CNC mill. And it hasn't made any significant difference to the gun market.

While it's theoretically possible to 3D print a gun, it requires a printer that's even more expensive than that CNC mill (you absolutely can't do it with just an ordinary Makerbot), and the result is a really terrible-quality gun that's as likely to blow up in your hand as it is to hit your target. Now, that might change some: 3d printing technology is improving all the time. But it'll never be possible to make a decent-quality gun more easily with a 3D printer than with a mill.
  #59  
Old 08-08-2019, 03:04 PM
Blank Slate's Avatar
Blank Slate is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 5,394
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damuri Ajashi View Post

But more to the point, we live in a democracy and I don't think the military would go along with a tyrannical government.
It seems to be working so far.
  #60  
Old 08-08-2019, 03:07 PM
k9bfriender is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 11,339
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atamasama View Post
It’s interesting to look at drunk driving in the debate on reducing or stopping gun violence (especially mass shootings). It’s interesting because we haven’t outlawed personal ownership and operation of vehicles, or alcohol. (We tried to outlaw alcohol consumption but that didn’t turn out very well.)

Comparing the NRA to a pro drunk-driving lobby is inaccurate. Because as much as you may dislike the NRA (and I’m no fan either) they are not a pro mass shooting or firearms murder lobby any more than the alcoholic beverage industry advocates impaired driving. Their resistance to gun regulation may be standing in the way of any real fix for gun violence, but they’re not promoting it.
It doesn't exist anymore, because of the social pushback, but when drunk driving was first a thing, yes, there was quite a bit of resistance. it took MADD to really start putting a dent into it, and make and enforce DUI laws.

They were not exactly promoting drunk driving, but they were using similar arguments that, as long as no one is hurt, what is the harm?
Quote:

But again, I think the way that US law and culture treats alcohol consumption and vehicle use is a good model for a solution for gun violence. Alcohol sale and consumption is regulated very well, and so is operating and owning a vehicle. Safety has improved immensely through education, outreach, and laws made with public safety in mind. I think that something along those lines can be done for gun ownership as well. Reasonable regulation done with safety in mind, and no need to change or create a constitutional amendment.
Actually I agree with this, it is the gun rights advocates that insist that it cannot be done without abolishing the 2nd, and all that goes with that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damuri Ajashi View Post
Where do you live because guns are more expensive on the street than a similar gun in the gun shop in every city I have lived in.
Maybe I'm just a bit too friendly with shady characters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damuri Ajashi View Post
I know a lot of people who have reloading equipment. They don't use them much. So I think it would be fair to say that a lot of gun enthusiasts CAN reload their ammunition but most of them just buy their ammo, because reloading is a PITA.
The people that I know that do it don't do it to be special, they do it to save money. It comes down to whether their time is worth more than the cost of ammo.

If you shoot a bunch, the cost of ammo can add up quickly.
Quote:
But I think it is also fair to say that most gun enthusiasts keep hundreds if not thousands of rounds of ammunition on hand at all times.
Probably, a hundred rounds is a couple boxes, and you can go through that in a few minutes.

Hundreds, even thousands of rounds go much faster than you would think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damuri Ajashi View Post
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menacing See brandishing

Driving while intoxicated is a crime
I could see brandishing being equivalent to open containers.

Last edited by k9bfriender; 08-08-2019 at 03:07 PM.
  #61  
Old 08-08-2019, 03:11 PM
Icarus's Avatar
Icarus is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: In front of my PC, y tu?
Posts: 5,222
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blank Slate View Post
It seems to be working so far.
Yep, this mythical tyrannical government seems to only exist when a D is in the White House. Otherwise, the good citizens will happily turn on each other if told to do so by the a government of "our kind of people".
  #62  
Old 08-08-2019, 03:14 PM
k9bfriender is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 11,339
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuickSilver View Post
Or when a bunch of high school students had enough and started a movement that over a generation amended the constitution and made guns illegal in a nation full of gun zealots.

See me in 20 years and see if they didn't.
My only disagreement is on the timeline.

I think we are going to be seeing a pretty big push here in the next few years.
  #63  
Old 08-08-2019, 03:18 PM
QuickSilver is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 18,801
Quote:
Originally Posted by k9bfriender View Post
My only disagreement is on the timeline.

I think we are going to be seeing a pretty big push here in the next few years.
I was being cautiously optimistic. I've been hurt before.
__________________
St. QuickSilver: Patron Saint of Thermometers.
  #64  
Old 08-08-2019, 03:26 PM
Atamasama's Avatar
Atamasama is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,018
Quote:
Originally Posted by k9bfriender View Post
Probably, a hundred rounds is a couple boxes, and you can go through that in a few minutes.

Hundreds, even thousands of rounds go much faster than you would think.
A hundred rounds is not a lot. I bought a little plastic tackle box thing with a 10x10 lattice in it, and each compartment is just big enough to hold a round. When I used to go to the range Iíd have one of those filled up ahead of time and reload my mags from it as I shot. Iíd go through 100 rounds or so each time I shot. The cases are really small too, I could easily fit one in a fanny pack (if I owned one, which I donít). They are pretty heavy though.

When I buy ammo itís thousands of rounds at a time. Itís more cost-efficient and as you say, thatís not a lot. You could fit a few thousand rounds in a box the size of a 12-pack soda fridge container.
  #65  
Old 08-08-2019, 04:08 PM
Damuri Ajashi is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,376
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuickSilver View Post
Or when a bunch of high school students had enough and started a movement that over a generation amended the constitution and made guns illegal in a nation full of gun zealots.

See me in 20 years and see if they didn't.
Sure. Maybe David Hogg will change the world we live in. Anything is possible. Hell he got into Harvard with a 1270 SAT score so maybe he can convince 2/3rds of the congressmen, 2/3rds of senators and 2/3rds of states to repeal the 2nd amendment.
  #66  
Old 08-08-2019, 04:09 PM
Damuri Ajashi is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,376
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blank Slate View Post
It seems to be working so far.
And that is first world privilege. You have no idea what tyranny is so you mistake losing an election for tyranny.
  #67  
Old 08-08-2019, 04:14 PM
enipla is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Colorado Rockies.
Posts: 14,493
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damuri Ajashi View Post
And that is first world privilege. You have no idea what tyranny is so you mistake losing an election for tyranny.
Bit different when the winner accepts help from a hostile foreign government to get elected.

Tyranny? Not yet. Treason? You bet.
__________________
I don't live in the middle of nowhere, but I can see it from here.
  #68  
Old 08-08-2019, 04:15 PM
Damuri Ajashi is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,376
Quote:
Originally Posted by k9bfriender View Post
My only disagreement is on the timeline.

I think we are going to be seeing a pretty big push here in the next few years.
Can you name 25 states that would vote to repeal the 2nd amendment? Because you will need 9 more than that.

You will need 190 congressmen, 67 senators and 34 states. I don't think you could get 50% of congressmen, 50% of senators or 50% of states to support repealing the 2nd amendment in the next few year (how long is a few years?).
  #69  
Old 08-08-2019, 04:17 PM
Damuri Ajashi is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,376
Quote:
Originally Posted by enipla View Post
Bit different when the winner accepts help from a hostile foreign government to get elected.

Tyranny? Not yet. Treason? You bet.
Treason? How so? I'd like to see how deep you dig this hole.
  #70  
Old 08-08-2019, 04:50 PM
HMS Irruncible is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 8,383
Quote:
Originally Posted by Velocity View Post
Gun control only works if you do it really, really hard. If you have 300 million guns in the nation, reducing it by a whopping 90 percent still leaves you with 30 million guns. All it takes is one or a few for a killing spree.
Would you be OK eating in a restaurant that posted a sign saying "hand-washing only removes 90% of germs; employees needn't bother with it."
  #71  
Old 08-08-2019, 05:12 PM
k9bfriender is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 11,339
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damuri Ajashi View Post
And that is first world privilege. You have no idea what tyranny is so you mistake losing an election for tyranny.
Heh. That's almost funny. No, losing an election is part of democracy, and that is not what is being talked about here. Your insult is sooo 2016, you need to get up with the times.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damuri Ajashi View Post
Can you name 25 states that would vote to repeal the 2nd amendment? Because you will need 9 more than that.

You will need 190 congressmen, 67 senators and 34 states. I don't think you could get 50% of congressmen, 50% of senators or 50% of states to support repealing the 2nd amendment in the next few year (how long is a few years?).
Of the current crop, no. Of a crop that comes into power on the heels of the baby boomers finally losing their hold on the govt and the younger generation finally gets a say in the functioning of their govt, I think things will be a bit different.

You can't count on all the old bigots to live forever to support you, eventually they will start dying off, and while new bigots are made every day, the glut of the baby boomers losing their hold will allow this generation of kids that grew up with active shooter drills to start pushing to make sure that their kids don't have to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HMS Irruncible View Post
Would you be OK eating in a restaurant that posted a sign saying "hand-washing only removes 90% of germs; employees needn't bother with it."
I've seen the response to this be "I don't wash my hands, why should I expect the employees to." I assume that this is the case here as well.

Last edited by k9bfriender; 08-08-2019 at 05:13 PM.
  #72  
Old 08-08-2019, 05:13 PM
begbert2 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Idaho
Posts: 13,058
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damuri Ajashi View Post
Treason? How so? I'd like to see how deep you dig this hole.
There are other threads for this.
  #73  
Old 08-08-2019, 09:02 PM
Damuri Ajashi is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,376
Quote:
Originally Posted by k9bfriender View Post
Heh. That's almost funny. No, losing an election is part of democracy, and that is not what is being talked about here. Your insult is sooo 2016, you need to get up with the times.
I don't like Trump either. We can have a Trump hating contest if you like but the notion that he has committed treason is silly partisan rhetoric.

Quote:
Of the current crop, no. Of a crop that comes into power on the heels of the baby boomers finally losing their hold on the govt and the younger generation finally gets a say in the functioning of their govt, I think things will be a bit different.
And you think that when the baby boomers mostly die over the next 20 years, we will have 2/3rds of the house, 2/3rds of the senate and 2/3rds of the state legislatures ready to repeal the 2nd amendment? That seems like wishful thinking.

Quote:
You can't count on all the old bigots to live forever to support you, eventually they will start dying off, and while new bigots are made every day, the glut of the baby boomers losing their hold will allow this generation of kids that grew up with active shooter drills to start pushing to make sure that their kids don't have to.
What does bigotry have to do with the 2nd amendment? In your mind is the 2nd amendment synonymous with bigotry? Generally speaking, gun control has greater ties with racism than gun rights. Active shooter drills is what's going to push the Overton window from "no chance in hell" to "inevitable"? Really?

I think you are going to have to get comfortable with our constitutional rights staying about where they are right now.
  #74  
Old 08-09-2019, 12:28 AM
k9bfriender is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 11,339
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damuri Ajashi View Post
I don't like Trump either. We can have a Trump hating contest if you like but the notion that he has committed treason is silly partisan rhetoric.
Treason != Tyranny. Stop moving goalposts.
Quote:


And you think that when the baby boomers mostly die over the next 20 years, we will have 2/3rds of the house, 2/3rds of the senate and 2/3rds of the state legislatures ready to repeal the 2nd amendment? That seems like wishful thinking.
Optimistic, maybe. But the trends are there, people want better gun control,and that number is increasing steadily, and I suspect will be increasing even faster as those who were told that all we could offer to protect them in their classes was our thought and our prayers start making their voices heard at the ballot boxes.
Quote:

What does bigotry have to do with the 2nd amendment?
You don't have to be a bigot to support the second amendment, but if you are a bigot, then you are one of it's more fervent.
Quote:
In your mind is the 2nd amendment synonymous with bigotry?
No. In your mind is a connection synonymous with a synonym?
Quote:
Generally speaking, gun control has greater ties with racism than gun rights.
Yeah, racists want to have guns while preventing minorities from doing the same.
Quote:

Active shooter drills is what's going to push the Overton window from "no chance in hell" to "inevitable"? Really?
It's certainly going to point it in that direction. Do you have kids in school? Do they like being told that they need to pretend to be hiding from someone that has come to kill them?

Fire and tornado drills, those are acts of "god" and are things that there are actually steps that can be taken to dramatically increase your chances of escaping injury. That's not the same with school shooters. Make enough kids go through that, and they will grow up to resent you for not doing anything about it, and they will do it themselves so that they don't have to put their kids through it.
Quote:
I think you are going to have to get comfortable with our constitutional rights staying about where they are right now.
ah yes, the famous gun nut "neener, neener" defense.
  #75  
Old 08-09-2019, 02:22 AM
DragonAsh is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,485
Quote:
Originally Posted by k9bfriender View Post
We do not just criminalize killing people while drunk, we also criminalize driving while drunk. If you are pulled over, and you are over .08 (in most states), then you get a criminal charge, even if you had not yet had an accident.

As a person with a gun only becomes a criminal once they have used their gun in commission of a crime, your analogy to DUI falls completely apart.
Not only that - IIRC, many states have statutes that depending on the circumstances, can hold people/bars etc liable of they served alcohol to someone that subsequently caused injury or death.

I've said it before, I'll say it again: We don't need to ban guns. Every gun should be registered and licensed. Every gun should have about a 40% federal and state sales tax. You pay an annual registration fee for every gun you own, you have to sign over the registration of the gun if you sell it. You have to pass a written and practical test to get a gun, have to have your picture taken and maybe fingerprinted, the license has to be renewed every few years. If the gun ends up used in a crime by someone other than the registered owner, the registered owner can be held liable unless they've reported the gun missing...and if you lose a gun or otherwise don't follow gun ownership regulations, your license can be suspended or revoked.

The govt can start buying back guns for people that don't want to pay the annual registration fee. Gun owners will be required to take out gun owner insurance. Insurance companies should raise premiums for gun owners and/or offer discounts to non-gun owners that have security systems. Guns with special safety features can have lower insurance rates.

Background checks, mandatory waiting periods, home inspections.

None of these proposals involve banning guns. I am confident they would lead to reduced gun deaths over time.
__________________
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you think hiring a pro to do the job is expensive, wait until you hire an amateur...
  #76  
Old 08-09-2019, 08:32 AM
k9bfriender is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 11,339
Quote:
Originally Posted by DragonAsh View Post
Not only that - IIRC, many states have statutes that depending on the circumstances, can hold people/bars etc liable of they served alcohol to someone that subsequently caused injury or death.
Yes, quite a number of them. I didn't go down the list, but it does seem as though it is close to everyone.

That's why those who serve alcohol have to take a class on determining if someone is too drunk to be served. If I serve someone a beer, and they get into an accident, I can be in trouble.

Gun shop owners do not have any responsibility to not sell a gun to someone too psychotic to be trusted with a deadly weapon. They can sell someone a gun who walks out and starts shooting people, and not one word to the proprietor.
Quote:
I've said it before, I'll say it again: We don't need to ban guns. Every gun should be registered and licensed. Every gun should have about a 40% federal and state sales tax. You pay an annual registration fee for every gun you own, you have to sign over the registration of the gun if you sell it. You have to pass a written and practical test to get a gun, have to have your picture taken and maybe fingerprinted, the license has to be renewed every few years. If the gun ends up used in a crime by someone other than the registered owner, the registered owner can be held liable unless they've reported the gun missing...and if you lose a gun or otherwise don't follow gun ownership regulations, your license can be suspended or revoked.
Hard sell, but I agree. The proceeds from those taxes can go towards the medical and disability costs of those affected by guns. People always bring up the number of those killed by guns, but the number injured is much higher, and a gun injury can run up some serious medical bills, and leave you disabled for life.

As far as losing your gun, you should be asked how that happened. If some seriously equipped thieves broke into your home and cracked you gun safe, then you did what you could, and you can only do so much. If someone wanders into your home and pulls your gun out from your couch cushions, then you should be held to some account for making a weapon that easy to access.
Quote:
The govt can start buying back guns for people that don't want to pay the annual registration fee. Gun owners will be required to take out gun owner insurance. Insurance companies should raise premiums for gun owners and/or offer discounts to non-gun owners that have security systems. Guns with special safety features can have lower insurance rates.
Give a good premium on buy back of guns that are no longer available for sale to most people.
Quote:
Background checks, mandatory waiting periods, home inspections.
And make mandatory that the FFL dealer asks, "And what do you need this for?"
Quote:
None of these proposals involve banning guns. I am confident they would lead to reduced gun deaths over time.
Don't need to ban guns, but the current interpretation of 2A would still stand in the way of most of those proposals. If we could get a policy that protects public safety, as well as respecting the second amendment, then great. If not, if 2A stands in the way of public safety, then the bill of rights was meant to promote life and liberty, not to be a suicide pact, and should be changed.
  #77  
Old 08-09-2019, 01:41 PM
Nava is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Hey! I'm located! WOOOOW!
Posts: 42,485
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damuri Ajashi View Post
Licensing and registration would work better and faster than that I think.
Licensing and registration already exist, but registration is specifically and purposefully being kept in the 16th century.
__________________
Evidence gathered through the use of science is easily dismissed through the use of idiocy. - Czarcasm.
  #78  
Old 08-09-2019, 01:53 PM
Lamoral's Avatar
Lamoral is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Fenario
Posts: 2,830
Quote:
Originally Posted by k9bfriender View Post
It's certainly going to point it in that direction. Do you have kids in school? Do they like being told that they need to pretend to be hiding from someone that has come to kill them?

Fire and tornado drills, those are acts of "god" and are things that there are actually steps that can be taken to dramatically increase your chances of escaping injury. That's not the same with school shooters. Make enough kids go through that, and they will grow up to resent you for not doing anything about it, and they will do it themselves so that they don't have to put their kids through it.
A whole generation of Americans grew up believing that any minute they would be incinerated by nuclear bombs, along with all of their friends, their family, their pets, and the entire country. This is a damn sight more dire of a predicament than a fire, a tornado, OR a school shooting.

That same generation elected a president who talks in an appallingly cavalier manner about nuclear weapons and in fact did so during his entire campaign, making it crystal clear that their horrific consequences carried no emotional weight for him whatsoever.

I would not count on future generations to improve anything.
  #79  
Old 08-09-2019, 02:43 PM
k9bfriender is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 11,339
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lamoral View Post
A whole generation of Americans grew up believing that any minute they would be incinerated by nuclear bombs, along with all of their friends, their family, their pets, and the entire country. This is a damn sight more dire of a predicament than a fire, a tornado, OR a school shooting.

That same generation elected a president who talks in an appallingly cavalier manner about nuclear weapons and in fact did so during his entire campaign, making it crystal clear that their horrific consequences carried no emotional weight for him whatsoever.

I would not count on future generations to improve anything.
I grew up on the tail end of that era.

Nuclear war was a bit more of an ephemeral threat. That trigger never got pulled, no one was ever killed.

Had we experienced a limited nuclear exchange during the cold war, we'd probably take our nukes more seriously, but as it is, most people just don't think that anyone, even Trump, would ever use them.

Had we experienced a full scale exchange, then we probably wouldn't be as worried about school shootings.
  #80  
Old 08-09-2019, 04:09 PM
Cheesesteak's Avatar
Cheesesteak is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Lovely Montclair, NJ
Posts: 13,602
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damuri Ajashi View Post
Here is the whole quote from Dr. Deth:

"Gun control simply doesnt work- it can't work to reduce mass killings. [/i]It could, maybe reduce violent crime a bit./[/i]"
The entirety of that quote is every bit as much a dirty fucking lie as the first part by itself.

Some countries have actual gun control, and in those countries it DOES work, it DOES reduce mass killings and it DOES reduce violent crime (particularly murders) a whole hell of a lot more than "a bit".

It's a dead fucking lie. There is no excuse for it, there is no nuance there about how gun control isn't a magical cure-all, there is no acknowledgement that it would take actual work on our part to make it successful, it's just a blanket statement that gun control doesn't do what it obviously DOES do in dozens of places where they actually have it.
  #81  
Old 08-09-2019, 05:34 PM
Monty's Avatar
Monty is offline
Straight Dope Science Advisory Board
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Beijing, China
Posts: 23,321
Quote:
Originally Posted by k9bfriender View Post
I grew up on the tail end of that era.

Nuclear war was a bit more of an ephemeral threat. That trigger never got pulled, no one was ever killed.

Had we experienced a limited nuclear exchange during the cold war, we'd probably take our nukes more seriously, but as it is, most people just don't think that anyone, even Trump, would ever use them.

Had we experienced a full scale exchange, then we probably wouldn't be as worried about school shootings.

None of my friends believes Trump would not try to use nukes. What they, along with me, believe is that the military will not cave into that cretin's attempt to destroy the world quickly.
  #82  
Old 08-09-2019, 07:53 PM
k9bfriender is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 11,339
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monty View Post
None of my friends believes Trump would not try to use nukes. What they, along with me, believe is that the military will not cave into that cretin's attempt to destroy the world quickly.
My concern is less him ordering a full scale exchange, but using "small" ones in a tactical fashion. This leads to escalation. There is a much better bright line between no nukes and using nukes than there is between a "small" nuke, and a "slightly bigger" nuke.

I do also agree that I think that the military will be wise enough to not give in to his baser impulses, but at a certain point, if he gives the legal order, refusing it is essentially starting a coup. There are bad or worse endings for that, but no good ones. As much as I don't want the military listening the Trump, I also don't want the military to ignore the civilian government.

Anyway, my point is that we never actually saw what a nuclear exchange would look like. We do see what school shootings look like. If we've ever seen an interview with anyone affected by nuclear war, it was an interview in a WWII documentary with someone who lived in Japan at the time. We've all seen interviews with people affected by school shootings in our contemporary news.
  #83  
Old 08-09-2019, 08:51 PM
Atamasama's Avatar
Atamasama is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,018
I don’t see much equivalency between a nuclear threat from foreign powers that never materialized, and continuous gun violence that we keep doing to ourselves. We have a limited to nonexistent ability to change what rival and enemy nations will do, and the incentive to try isn’t strong when a threat is only theoretical. But we can pass laws to change our own country’s access and use of firearms, and the danger isn’t just a hypothetical concern but an ongoing crisis.
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:37 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@straightdope.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Copyright © 2018 STM Reader, LLC.

 
Copyright © 2017