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  #2601  
Old 01-14-2018, 01:29 AM
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Originally Posted by China Guy View Post
As far as obesity it's not even a contest. Ditto for gun violence.
I'm not going to pretend to know, but AFAIK, the rampant pollution, lack of workers rights by comparison, authoritarianism and political corruptness are a bit more far reaching in such a large populace...

no argument about the obesity thing though, sheesh. There are really some land whales walking around.
  #2602  
Old 01-14-2018, 01:38 AM
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Yes, why do people take such issue with him describing countries or continents as shitholes? When what he clearly meant was [some other nuanced point that would not have caused offense]?
I actually don't know why people take such issue with him describing countries as shitholes. It's not untrue.

These mental gymnastics people are performing to scream "RACIST!" might earn them some SJW internet points but they're missing the real point.

All things being equal, a systems analyst from Norway and a mud farmer from Elbonia aren't going to bring the same benefits or skills to their new country, and I don't see a problem with the new country saying "We'd rather have the person who can slot into our society and function productively pretty much straight off the bat, thanks"
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  #2603  
Old 01-14-2018, 01:45 AM
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I think the problem is assuming that anyone from a shithole is a mudfarmer. Particularly when one of the shitholes in question is an entire fucking continent.
  #2604  
Old 01-14-2018, 01:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Martini Enfield View Post
I actually don't know why people take such issue with him describing countries as shitholes. It's not untrue.

These mental gymnastics people are performing to scream "RACIST!" might earn them some SJW internet points but they're missing the real point.

All things being equal, a systems analyst from Norway and a mud farmer from Elbonia aren't going to bring the same benefits or skills to their new country, and I don't see a problem with the new country saying "We'd rather have the person who can slot into our society and function productively pretty much straight off the bat, thanks"
Yes, and? What about a systems analyst from Elbonia and a mud farmer from Norway? Still want to have this discussion?

17% of Nigerians in the United States hold masters degrees and 4% hold doctorates.
  #2605  
Old 01-14-2018, 01:46 AM
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So I just have to laugh when lunatics like you praise these countries while simultaneously declaring "So glad I'm not a liberal. Life is better looking at the bright side".
Just when have we been praising any such countries? We're merely giving a view of their inhabitants that is likely the same held by Trump. We've also suggested that lifestyles and opportunities in the U.S., such as they could never experience in socialist land, may well be why their inhabitants may want to immigrate here.

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Your characterization of liberalism there is insane.
No, it's pretty much spot on actually. Liberals can never see the good in anything and can always be counted on to focus in on the small amount of what's wrong with anything and want to tear it all down, even if the overall result would be exponentially worse, and it usually is. To hear liberals tell it there is nothing good in or about this country, and any and everything gets called sexist or racist even if it has absolutely nothing to do with either because the left regards them as a foolproof way to claim the moral high ground and achieve their ends.

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Liberalism is Norway, Sweden, Denmark, and to a large extent the UK, Canada, Australia, and indeed much of the industrialized world. Liberalism is universal health care and a strong social fabric and support system.
To the degree that any of this is true, it's been made possible by the fact these countries (England largely excluded) haven't had to pay for or finance their own freedom from outside threat, having enjoyed most of their 20th and 21st century freedom under the umbrella of the U.S.'s military might. Still, their citizens live lives of relative sparseness compared with American lifestyles. They live in small houses and apartments with small furniture and small amenities and drive small cars (if they even have one), and know little of the sense of pride and fulfillment that comes with accomplishment, success, and having forged one's own way in life. And as our own Netherlands Doper, Maastricht, once admitted, when their citizens reach a certain age with serious health problems, rather than spend the money necessary to treat and or save them, they are given palliative pain meds and essentially told to go have a nice death.

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Liberalism is everything that Republicans and insane fuckwads like you want to destroy.
Destroy? Hardly! We're trying to fend it off.

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One would have to conclude that you're either racist or bat-shit...
Ah, yes, the typical American liberal response to anyone of a differing frame of mind. One simply can't think or believe differently from the liberal point of view and possibly be anything but racist or insane. Thanks for the arrogance and conceit but go peddle it elsewhere. Here at the Dope we're all stocked up.

And good on ya, anomalous1! Glad to hear you're sticking around.
  #2606  
Old 01-14-2018, 01:50 AM
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Still, their citizens live lives of relative sparseness compared with American lifestyles. They live in small houses and apartments with small furniture and small amenities and drive small cars (if they even have one), and know little of the sense of pride and fulfillment that comes with accomplishment, success, and having forged one's own way in life.
That... is nothing at all like the Australia I live in, where people have large houses, big cars (not American size, admittedly, but there's a LOT of V8s and 4WDs about), lots of furniture, iPhones, and so on. And as for Canada, it seemed pretty much exactly like the US in the "Nice stuff" department the last time I was there.

I have no idea what you're basing this idea on, frankly.
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Last edited by Martini Enfield; 01-14-2018 at 01:50 AM.
  #2607  
Old 01-14-2018, 01:50 AM
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I'm not going to pretend to know.
Then don't make ignorant assertations about things you can't be bothered to even try google please.
  #2608  
Old 01-14-2018, 01:53 AM
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I think the problem is assuming that anyone from a shithole is a mudfarmer. Particularly when one of the shitholes in question is an entire fucking continent.
This.

Frightfully, I think this utterance from the Oompa Loompa in Chief (OLiC) and the lack of outrage-- even from those who support a tax bill or other economic issues-- shows even more about prejudice and racism in the US than the electoral college outcome back in November '16.
  #2609  
Old 01-14-2018, 01:54 AM
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I think the problem is assuming that anyone from a shithole is a mudfarmer. Particularly when one of the shitholes in question is an entire fucking continent.
How many of the immigrants we're getting from countries south of the border are doctors, engineers, architects, etc.?
  #2610  
Old 01-14-2018, 01:57 AM
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That... is nothing at all like the Australia I live in, where people have large houses, big cars (not American size, admittedly, but there's a LOT of V8s and 4WDs about), lots of furniture, iPhones, and so on. And as for Canada, it seemed pretty much exactly like the US in the "Nice stuff" department the last time I was there.

I have no idea what you're basing this idea on, frankly.
Yeah, I know all of that and I should have excluded Australia too. I was focused on the liberal Scandinavian countries that wolfpup was salivating over and inadvertently overlooked Australia when I was exempting England. My apologies.

ETA: I don't believe either Canada or Australia have socialist systems on par with those in Scandinavia. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but the impression I have is that they're maybe 10% of the way there.

Last edited by Starving Artist; 01-14-2018 at 02:01 AM.
  #2611  
Old 01-14-2018, 01:59 AM
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I actually don't know why people take such issue with him describing countries as shitholes. It's not untrue.

These mental gymnastics people are performing to scream "RACIST!" might earn them some SJW internet points but they're missing the real point.

All things being equal, a systems analyst from Norway and a mud farmer from Elbonia aren't going to bring the same benefits or skills to their new country, and I don't see a problem with the new country saying "We'd rather have the person who can slot into our society and function productively pretty much straight off the bat, thanks"
You seem to be having difficulty grasping the meaning of the word "racism". The operative factor here is making blanket judgments about blameless individual human beings based on the stereotype of a race or nation. How do you think Trump would feel about a white mud farmer from Norway versus a black systems analyst from a "shithole" country? It's not the word itself but the prejudicial implication of the context in which it was used that is so telling of racism. I'm sure I've used the word myself, but it was in contexts like "the only countries in the world with more preventable deaths than the US due to gun violence or lack of proper health care are backwater shitholes", which is entirely correct.
  #2612  
Old 01-14-2018, 02:07 AM
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All things being equal, the Norwegian (regardless of skin colour) is going to have an easier time adjusting to life in the US and contributing to society than the Elbonian (regardless of skin colour).

That doesn't mean the Elbonian can't adjust or contribute, of course.
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  #2613  
Old 01-14-2018, 02:09 AM
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How many of the immigrants we're getting from countries south of the border are doctors, engineers, architects, etc.?
I had a colleague, really born in Kenya, with a degree from MIT. I know a professor, very well respected, from Somalia. I bet they just love Trump.

More interesting is that the Chinese Communists are working very hard to gain influence in Africa. Trump just handed them the continent. I'd hate to be the American diplomat trying to work a deal this week. Trump is the best friend the Commies ever had. The Chinese are smarter than the Russians - they didn't even have to spend any money destroying American influence in the world.

I think the term for people like you is useful idiot.
  #2614  
Old 01-14-2018, 02:12 AM
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You seem to be having difficulty grasping the meaning of the word "racism". The operative factor here is making blanket judgments about blameless individual human beings based on the stereotype of a race or nation.
I submit that it's you who is having difficulty grasping the meaning of 'racism', as do most of your ideological brethren, since you're constantly using it where it doesn't apply. Countries become shitholes for a variety of reasons that the bulk of their populace has little to do with. Dictators or corrupt leaders, bad weather and crop cycles, economic mismanagement, drugs, inadequate natural resources, etc., all play significant roles in the events that lead to countries becoming what Trump referred to as shitholes. But life in such countries nevertheless takes its toll on their inhabitants, who over time become plagued with criminality and defeatist attitudes and highly unlikely to thrive in a country like the U.S. where they would be expected to make their own way. In short, they bring nothing positive that would enhance the U.S. or make it a better place to live, and in all likelihood would become a burden on our prison and economic systems and a negative element societally.
  #2615  
Old 01-14-2018, 02:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Martini Enfield View Post
All things being equal, the Norwegian (regardless of skin colour) is going to have an easier time adjusting to life in the US and contributing to society than the Elbonian (regardless of skin colour).

That doesn't mean the Elbonian can't adjust or contribute, of course.
Is the Elbonian going to have an easier time than my great grandfather who came over from Russia only speaking Yiddish? That was a shithole also, especially for Jews.

He went to a Jewish area in NY of course, but there is a big Afghani community within walking distance of me. Someone coming from Afghanistan (which I think would qualify under Trump quality rules) could get started in the US and learn English while being among people from home. That is the way it works for many communities.
And Nigerians and Kenyans speak English, and so might have an easier time than Norwegians. So long as they avoid racists like the moron in chief, that is.
  #2616  
Old 01-14-2018, 02:14 AM
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Then don't make ignorant assertations about things you can't be bothered to even try google please.
Re-Read please.

I am not going to pretend to know = I don't live there so can't speak first hand.

What I do know, as learned in textbook format, was listed above. No assertation or ignorance needed.

Bye now
  #2617  
Old 01-14-2018, 02:25 AM
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To the degree that any of this is true, it's been made possible by the fact these countries (England largely excluded) haven't had to pay for or finance their own freedom from outside threat, having enjoyed most of their 20th and 21st century freedom under the umbrella of the U.S.'s military might. Still, their citizens live lives of relative sparseness compared with American lifestyles. They live in small houses and apartments with small furniture and small amenities and drive small cars (if they even have one), and know little of the sense of pride and fulfillment that comes with accomplishment, success, and having forged one's own way in life. And as our own Netherlands Doper, Maastricht, once admitted, when their citizens reach a certain age with serious health problems, rather than spend the money necessary to treat and or save them, they are given palliative pain meds and essentially told to go have a nice death.
Norway is the happiest place on Earth.

Here's the entire list.

Those poor, poor, happy liberals.
  #2618  
Old 01-14-2018, 02:26 AM
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I had a colleague, really born in Kenya, with a degree from MIT. I know a professor, very well respected, from Somalia. I bet they just love Trump.

More interesting is that the Chinese Communists are working very hard to gain influence in Africa. Trump just handed them the continent. I'd hate to be the American diplomat trying to work a deal this week. Trump is the best friend the Commies ever had. The Chinese are smarter than the Russians - they didn't even have to spend any money destroying American influence in the world.
Well, in the first place, Trump didn't announce that comment publicly. He was outed for it by opponents eager for any opportunity to do him in. So he never intended for the countries in question to hear his having said that. And I'm sure virtually every president, even the one sometimes referred to as Obamassiah, have used such phraseology in private. But everyone on both sides is out to get Trump and so any and everything he does or says is leaked to the press and alleged to be of earthshakingly negative importance and distorted or blown out of proportion.

And as far as Commies go, China and Russia are becoming more capitalistic by the day, China especially. You can tell by how well they're doing now as opposed to their staunchly communist days. And I doubt very much that anyone or anything has handed Africa to the Chinese. It's not that easy for a thousand different reasons.

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I think the term for people like you is useful idiot.
I'm sure you do. You guys always find ways to call people who disagree with you stupid or evil. And you've so overplayed these accusations toward anyone who opposes you so badly that all these terms really mean anymore is not-liberal. Hardly an insult in my book.
  #2619  
Old 01-14-2018, 02:27 AM
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The 'white' mud farmer is NOT going to to be picked over the 'non-white' who has more skills. Stop reaching for a racism crutch. Lets get back to reality now.

Starving Artist

Good to have like minds here (it's rare). I used to be a big liberal until age 22, when I started noticing how my college was brainwashing liberalism into people...then I grew up and took the world for what it really is. I didn't like living in fantasy-land anymore with overflowing emotion and irrational thought processes, finding fault in things that there was none/searching for a purpose. Having to prove something that is readily apparent became redundant. Life is excellent now, and very simple when you see things for what they really are and how people really are. I just feel bad for many libs. They weren't lucky like some of us to see through the smoke and think for themselves.
  #2620  
Old 01-14-2018, 02:30 AM
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What I do know, as learned in textbook format, was listed above. No assertation or ignorance needed.
There your textbook is complete shit that a 2 minute google search would uncover.

Ya ya, it wasn't me, it was just some fake news I read in a text book and repeated ad nauseum because it advances my ignorant world view.
  #2621  
Old 01-14-2018, 02:31 AM
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Norway is the happiest place on Earth.

Here's the entire list.

Those poor, poor, happy liberals.
Nobody cares if they are liberal or not, we are simply talking about the skills of the person leaving whatever country and whether the country is shitty or not. It does not matter what social system or economic system. It does not matter about race. Stop changing the subject.

Typical.
  #2622  
Old 01-14-2018, 02:40 AM
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There your textbook is complete shit that a 2 minute google search would uncover.

Ya ya, it wasn't me, it was just some fake news I read in a text book and repeated ad nauseum because it advances my ignorant world view.
I take it English isn't your primary language... well, we are talking about shitty books.

I'll bite...well here is real stuff, check it over.


*http://carnegieendowment.org/publica...=view&id=19628
*https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat...k/geos/ch.html (read the introduction)
*http://www.greenpeace.org/eastasia/c...air-pollution/

Those good enough for ya? Plenty more to go around! I never denied gun violence or obesity in America, but you are denying my claim just for the purpose of argument, when it is in fact true?

Go away now.
  #2623  
Old 01-14-2018, 02:42 AM
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Nobody cares if they are liberal or not, we are simply talking about the skills of the person leaving whatever country and whether the country is shitty or not. It does not matter what social system or economic system. It does not matter about race. Stop changing the subject.



Typical.


I was responding to Starving Artist's comments about the poor Norwegians and their tiny houses and cars, thank you very much.

And with SA, it is about race. He loves him some 1950s when people knew their place and weren't so uppity.
  #2624  
Old 01-14-2018, 02:43 AM
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Norway is the happiest place on Earth.
Yes, I know liberals love to allege this. Yet everyone wants to come here.

Further, it's easy to be happy as long as one's immediate needs are met, but that doesn't mean that one has reached his maximum capacity for happiness. One can only wonder how much happier the residents of Norway would be were they allowed the opportunities, advantages, freedoms and lifestyles many Americans enjoy.

And like I alluded to before, if Norway had to recruit, arm and finance its own military life there would be considerably different, assuming it hadn't already fallen to the Ruskies or the Germskies decades ago. Most of the free world in Europe owes its freedom and ability to fling money at social issues to the protection of the U.S. and its evil, capitalist economy and reviled military/industrial complex. If these countries had all found themselves having to finance their own military defenses they'd have had far less to spend on social largess.
  #2625  
Old 01-14-2018, 03:25 AM
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And with SA, it is about race. He loves him some 1950s when people knew their place and weren't so uppity.
You are a baldfaced liar. I've never said one word about anyone in those days being uppity and I've never defended or supported the racism that was prevalent then.

What I've appreciated about the 50s and early 60s is pretty much everything outside the realm of racial and sexual equality. It's people like you, who have fucked everything up in the meantime, who love to cling to the deceit that that time was all about race and sexism because you believe it provides you with a foolproof way to escape culpability for the harm that liberal permissiveness and its offshoots have inflicted on this country since then.

Take false accusations of racism away from the left and they'd have nothing, no power, no influence, no ability to achieve anything. So it's little wonder that people like Wolf333 are so quick to spout racially tinged lies about their opponents. Without them they have nothing.

Last edited by Starving Artist; 01-14-2018 at 03:27 AM.
  #2626  
Old 01-14-2018, 03:36 AM
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Oh look. Sharting Fartist has a fanboy. That's adorable.

You guys obviously can't think or read. You're looking for the "I Want To Lick Trump's Crusty Bunghole" thread.
I guess that makes two more Nazis for the Ignore list.
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  #2627  
Old 01-14-2018, 03:43 AM
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You are a baldfaced liar. I've never said one word about anyone in those days being uppity and I've never defended or supported the racism that was prevalent then.

What I've appreciated about the 50s and early 60s is pretty much everything outside the realm of racial and sexual equality. It's people like you, who have fucked everything up in the meantime, who love to cling to the deceit that that time was all about race and sexism because you believe it provides you with a foolproof way to escape culpability for the harm that liberal permissiveness and its offshoots have inflicted on this country since then.

Take false accusations of racism away from the left and they'd have nothing, no power, no influence, no ability to achieve anything. So it's little wonder that people like Wolf333 are so quick to spout racially tinged lies about their opponents. Without them they have nothing.
No. I simply made inferences from your posting history (at least what I have seem).

Kind of like you did with liberals back in post #2583, except with more evidence.
  #2628  
Old 01-14-2018, 03:52 AM
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I guess that makes two more Nazis for the Ignore list.
This guy is great!

A Nazi? Really? That's a new one.

Take care.
  #2629  
Old 01-14-2018, 03:54 AM
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their citizens live lives of relative sparseness compared with American lifestyles. They live in small houses and apartments with small furniture and small amenities and drive small cars (if they even have one), and know little of the sense of pride and fulfillment that comes with accomplishment, success, and having forged one's own way in life. And as our own Netherlands Doper, Maastricht, once admitted, when their citizens reach a certain age with serious health problems, rather than spend the money necessary to treat and or save them, they are given palliative pain meds and essentially told to go have a nice death.


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That... is nothing at all like the Australia I live in, where people have large houses, big cars (not American size, admittedly, but there's a LOT of V8s and 4WDs about), lots of furniture, iPhones, and so on. And as for Canada, it seemed pretty much exactly like the US in the "Nice stuff" department the last time I was there.

I have no idea what you're basing this idea on, frankly.


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Yeah, I know all of that and I should have excluded Australia too. I was focused on the liberal Scandinavian countries that wolfpup was salivating over and inadvertently overlooked Australia when I was exempting England.
FYI, you are at least as wrong about the "liberal Scandinavian countries" as you were about Australia.

Try, for once, to talk about stuff you actually know anything at all about.

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  #2630  
Old 01-14-2018, 04:04 AM
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Yes, I know liberals love to allege this. Yet everyone wants to come here.
We don't. Moving to the US would mean a significant reduction in quality of life for most of us.

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One can only wonder how much happier the residents of Norway would be were they allowed the opportunities, advantages, freedoms and lifestyles many Americans enjoy.
You don't have to wonder anymore. We'd be less happy, not happier. The average quality of life in the Scandinavian countries is way better than the average quality of life in the USA.

And since I've lived in both countries, I actually know what I'm talking about. Unlike others here.

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  #2631  
Old 01-14-2018, 04:06 AM
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You're a fucking idiot. This nation was built by people escaping shithole countries.

You don't think there are good people in poor, underdeveloped countries? People striving for a better life? You don't think there is vetting?

And now, thanks to Trump, America is the shithole. Filled with shitheads like you.
By the way, I never said there weren't good people in poorer countries. People can strive for a better life, but at what cost to the rest of us, is that ever considered? If you are an American, try putting YOUR country first, instead of caring about everybody else and their problems. Oh, and vetting should be more strict and based on MERIT and SKILL.

There you go.

Sorry pal, Trump won and you've got to live with it. Go protest or get a rally going at your indie coffee shop if it'll make you feel better and make you quit stomping your feet with your fingers in your ears. Also, it's not very polite to reply with an insult. You reap what you sow. Remember that.
  #2632  
Old 01-14-2018, 04:13 AM
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We don't. Moving to the US would mean a significant reduction in quality of life for most of us.


You don't have to wonder anymore. We'd be less happy, not happier. The average quality of life in the Scandinavian countries is way better than the average quality of life in the USA.

And since I've lived in both countries, I actually know what I'm talking about. Unlike others here.

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I believe he is using Norway as an example of a decent to well off country anywhere in the world(pick one) with migrants that have something to offer, versus low skilled ones with nothing to little to offer. Or the hypothetical, that if someone did want to move to the U.S. from Norway or the like. Doesn't matter if Scandinavian country or not. Starving Artist can correct me if I am wrong.

Curious, what aspects of life are better in Norway vs. the U.S. since you've lived abroad? (I'm not being incendiary or anything, I am genuinely curious)
  #2633  
Old 01-14-2018, 04:28 AM
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Originally Posted by anomalous1 View Post

Curious, what aspects of life are better in Norway vs. the U.S. since you've lived abroad? (I'm not being incendiary or anything, I am genuinely curious)
Off the top of my head: I don't have to arm myself to feel safe on the street, my risk of being shot (by a robber, a clueless gun owner or a police officer) is nil, if I lose my job I won't starve, end up in the street or lose medical coverage, I don't have to spend more of my income on health insurance and college savings for my children than I currently pay in taxes, my wife didn't suffer any setback in her career by having several children and our head of state isn't a huge embarrassment to us whenever she says something to the press or travels abroad.

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  #2634  
Old 01-14-2018, 04:32 AM
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Is the Elbonian going to have an easier time than my great grandfather who came over from Russia only speaking Yiddish? That was a shithole also, especially for Jews.
And I'm guessing your great-grandfather came over in the era around/just after WWI?

I see what you're getting at but it's not quite the same situation as nowadays, especially because the official US immigration policy in that era seems to have been "Everyone who doesn't have TB and isn't insane is welcome".

What's interesting is most first-world countries have immigration restrictions, even on skilled workers from other civilised countries, and no-one seems to think that's egregious. My wife and I looked into moving to Canada about 18 months ago but because she doesn't have a degree we basically won't get enough "points" under their system to qualify for a residence/work visa.

I'm not wailing and gnashing my teeth and saying Justin Trudeau is a hoser because I can't move to a country that reeks of moose and trees and have a swimming pool full of maple syrup in my backyard. I just accept that, as disappointing as it may be, those are the rules.

I am not saying people from shitty countries should never be allowed to move to the first world - just that when deciding who gets to move to a first world country, the shittiness of the applicant's country and the skills they bring should be taken into account and where possible, people from less shitty countries (especially ones with a shared language and culture) should get priority over people from Elbonia or Ruritania.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2square4u View Post
Off the top of my head: I don't have to arm myself to feel safe on the street, my risk of being shot (by a robber, a clueless gun owner or a police officer) is nil, if I lose my job I won't starve, end up in the street or lose medical coverage, I don't have to spend more of my income on health insurance and college savings for my children than I currently pay in taxes, my wife didn't suffer any setback in her career by having several children and our head of state isn't a huge embarrassment to us whenever she says something to the press or travels abroad.
All these things are applicable to Australia too.
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Last edited by Martini Enfield; 01-14-2018 at 04:34 AM.
  #2635  
Old 01-14-2018, 05:06 AM
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Off the top of my head: I don't have to arm myself to feel safe on the street, my risk of being shot (by a robber, a clueless gun owner or a police officer) is nil, if I lose my job I won't starve, end up in the street or lose medical coverage, I don't have to spend more of my income on health insurance and college savings for my children than I currently pay in taxes, my wife didn't suffer any setback in her career by having several children and our head of state isn't a huge embarrassment to us whenever she says something to the press or travels abroad.

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Applicable in the U.S. as well, there are social programs to assist with this, surely not as comprehensive as your whereabouts and I am not vehemently against them, just against abuses (I see it all the time). How does your government deal with any abuses to assistance (if applicable?) I do see room for improvement (here) though, but implementing it is what is being consistently fought over and how much taxpayers have to cough up, with each side playing tug-of-war over what stipulations should be included. Another question if you will entertain it; What is your combined/effective tax rate? somewhere around 40%? higher? lower? I looked it up but the information varies too much.

Thanks for replying, I like getting this information from first-hand rather than online sources (they vary wildly).
  #2636  
Old 01-14-2018, 06:39 AM
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Originally Posted by anomalous1 View Post
At the rate you're going here, I don't even have to type a thing today, these are my exact thoughts.
Makes my decision that much easier. See, about nine years ago I came to the unavoidable conclusion that if Starving Artist ever accidentally posted something that was important for me to know, I’d eventually see the same information posted by someone else; someone who had NOT pigheadeadly demonstrated an unflinching dedication to pursuing the ideal of being wrong as often as possible.

So, I went to the wine cellar, uncorked (well unscrewed the bottle cap from) the cheapest rotgut in my stores,* and raised a glass to the last post of his I would ever deliberately read.

As I now do to yours.

*I keep such bottles of plonk on hand for just such an occasion.
  #2637  
Old 01-14-2018, 07:02 AM
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Yeah, I know all of that and I should have excluded Australia too. I was focused on the liberal Scandinavian countries...
...which are the one place where I've seen houses as large as those in the US; in fact, their architecture explains much of yours.

IKEA's 25m2 rooms are both a mental exercise and addressed to people living in dorms.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Martini Enfield View Post
What's interesting is most first-world countries have immigration restrictions, even on skilled workers from other civilised countries, and no-one seems to think that's egregious.
Most first world countries don't have an enormous propaganda machine dedicated to convincing their own citizens and the rest of the world that they're the best country on Earth. Most first world countries don't combine it with an immigration system that's designed completely for the benefit of the lawyers. Most first world countries don't scream bloody murder when other countries have the bollocks to expect their electoral results to be respected. What's galling isn't having restrictions, it's the hypocrisy.
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Last edited by Nava; 01-14-2018 at 07:07 AM.
  #2638  
Old 01-14-2018, 07:22 AM
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This thread has devolved into watching members of Trump's White Trash Nation drop to their knees and spin, spin, spin for their betters.

Any expectation of Trump representing this country with dignity and respect is now some sort of liberal delusion. Keeping eating his shit, brothers and sisters. You are some proud Americans.
  #2639  
Old 01-14-2018, 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by anomalous1 View Post
Applicable in the U.S. as well, there are social programs to assist with this, surely not as comprehensive as your whereabouts and I am not vehemently against them, just against abuses (I see it all the time). How does your government deal with any abuses to assistance (if applicable?) I do see room for improvement (here) though, but implementing it is what is being consistently fought over and how much taxpayers have to cough up, with each side playing tug-of-war over what stipulations should be included. Another question if you will entertain it; What is your combined/effective tax rate? somewhere around 40%? higher? lower? I looked it up but the information varies too much.

Thanks for replying, I like getting this information from first-hand rather than online sources (they vary wildly).
I suggest you start a separate thread on that, preferably outside the Pit. I'm not taking this sidetrack further off the rails.

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Old 01-14-2018, 07:26 AM
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What's galling isn't having restrictions, it's the hypocrisy.
yes.
  #2641  
Old 01-14-2018, 07:29 AM
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I'm not going to pretend to know, but AFAIK, the rampant pollution, lack of workers rights by comparison, authoritarianism and political corruptness are a bit more far reaching in such a large populace...
The first thing to note is that ranking countries, and asserting that one's own country is objectively #1, is largely a US phenomenon. Most people elsewhere appreciate that there are pros and cons to most countries, and where you choose to live depends on which are most important to you personally.
So when I criticize the US, I'm not necessarily saying China, or wherever, is better. I'm not going to start waving a red flag and chanting P R C ! P R C !

But, since you asked, I have chosen to live in China, and I rejected the chance to work in the US. For me, I've always found US culture a bit bizarre, with the whole "god and guns" thing, and recently it's taken a turn for the worst. The culture was already moving to being more adversarial and anti-intellectual; Trump is just a symptom of all that.

This being The BBQ Pit, I'm sure you'll now tell me America wouldn't want a Big Bozo like me anyway (or you may use even worse language). Well, whatever. You asked.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martini Enfield View Post
All things being equal, the Norwegian (regardless of skin colour) is going to have an easier time adjusting to life in the US and contributing to society than the Elbonian (regardless of skin colour).
Actually it depends on the specific individuals.
Since several people have tried to explain racism to you in this thread, let me try to add a rule of thumb: Any time you make an observation about large groups of people and you omit qualifiers like "on average" or "in general", what you're saying is probably either discriminatory or a tautology.
  #2642  
Old 01-14-2018, 07:41 AM
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Also, it's not very polite to reply with an insult. You reap what you sow. Remember that.
It's the Pit, moron. If you want to debate policy, there are other forums for that. This is where you go when you feel like insulting rape apologist scum like Fartist or random Trumptards who can't comprehend forum descriptions, such as yourself. I know there will have to be a lot of hand-holding in this piss poor version of America, but holy fuck is it tiresome.
  #2643  
Old 01-14-2018, 07:53 AM
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Liberals can never see the good in anything and can always be counted on to focus in on the small amount of what's wrong with anything and want to tear it all down, even if the overall result would be exponentially worse, and it usually is. To hear liberals tell it there is nothing good in or about this country, and any and everything gets called sexist or racist ....
In reality, the opposite is true. Right-wingers see no good in universal healthcare; right-wingers see no good in public parks; right-wingers see no good in non-white races, non-Christian religions, homosexual love. Right-wingers see no good in voting rights, relief from financial predators, environmental protection. Right-wingers see no good in human beings from "shithole" countries. Is America "exponentially worse off" because of its public education, environmental protection, etc.? Would America have been "exponentially better off" if, as many right-wingers wanted, no remedies were applied to the 2008 financial crisis?

And you, Starving, are a Trump-sucker who won't even admit how horrid and despicable your man is:

Quote:
Originally Posted by septimus View Post
Oh, is this the thread where Starving Artist answers question? Here are three yes/no questions from three months ago that must have slipped his mind — he did say he'd answer when he had time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starving Artist View Post
Let'sseeifyoucanfigurethisoutIspilledwateronmykeyboardlastnightandnowit'shosed,nospaces,noperiods,no comasandwhoknowswhatelseI'llresmepostingwhenthisoneeitherdriesoutandbecomesworkableorIgetanewoneta-ta
Will your "keyboard break" every time you're asked uncomfortable questions?

Quote:
Originally Posted by anomalous1 View Post
Legal immigration is fine, illegal is not. That is all.

Legal immigration would be ideal from countries that are not crime riddled, doesn't matter which one. It won't happen because there isn't a way to vet potential citizens without making the P.C. mob go insane. The U.S. doesn't OWE anyone citizenship.
Satisfy our curiosity, anomalous1:
(1) Do you think child rape, financial fraud and treason constitute "crime"?
(2) Are you aware that the future Melania Trump was working illegally in the U.SA. as a non-immigrant?
(3) Do you know the difference between "alien resident" and "citizen"?
  #2644  
Old 01-14-2018, 07:57 AM
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Starving Artist:

A Scandinavian guy here. Pretty much everything you said about Scandinavia is wrong. Read again what Wolfpup and 2square4u write, they obviously know what they are talking about.

And since you mentioned Obama, we have politicians like him here also.
We call them religious right-wing conservatives. So take a guess what we think about Republicans.
  #2645  
Old 01-14-2018, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Wolf333 View Post
Norway is the happiest place on Earth.

Here's the entire list.

Those poor, poor, happy liberals.
In Norway, WE’RE the shithole.
  #2646  
Old 01-14-2018, 08:18 AM
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Starving Artist:

Pretty much everything you said about Scandinavia is wrong.
That's SA for you - reliably wrong but never in doubt.
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  #2647  
Old 01-14-2018, 08:23 AM
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In Norway, WE’RE the shithole.
Indeed
Quote:
Emigration from Norway to the U.S. hit its peak in 1882 when almost 29,000 mostly poor Norwegians crossed the Atlantic. In 2016, however, only 1,114 Norwegians moved to the U.S., while 1,603 Americans moved to Norway.
What I found rather interesting though was this:
Quote:
The comments came after Trump met Wednesday with Norwegian Prime Minister Erna Solberg in Washington.
So whatever is the last thing he heard about?

My favorite part:
Quote:
National Norwegian broadcaster TV2 went to the streets in Oslo on Friday, asking people if they wanted to move to the U.S. None said they wanted to leave.

"Absolutely not," one unidentified man said. And an unnamed woman added: "If they get a new president."
  #2648  
Old 01-14-2018, 08:25 AM
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*I keep such bottles of plonk on hand for just such an occasion.
Ah yes, Châteauneuf-du-Plonque (Appellation d'origine contrôlée): the grapes that never sour. Enjoy in [lieu of] moderation.
  #2649  
Old 01-14-2018, 08:29 AM
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[B]since you mentioned Obama, we have politicians like him here also.
We call them religious right-wing conservatives. So take a guess what we think about Republicans.
I like to say that by European standards I'm slightly left-of-center on social politics. Which brands me firmly as a raving Socialist by US standards.

That's somewhat amusing.



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  #2650  
Old 01-14-2018, 08:32 AM
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In Norway, WE’RE the shithole.
I've tried to avoid being too rude to a whole country where there's also decent people living (and I apologise for not being able to do that), but yeah. Spot on.

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