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  #101  
Old 01-08-2020, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Miller View Post
solicit some input from you terrifying degenerates valued board members..
I laughed and laughed. Thanks, man.

I'm fine with current policy.
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  #102  
Old 01-08-2020, 09:43 AM
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I remember when I first joined here. I was a teen aged greenhorn and didn't know the ropes. The first time I perused "The BBQ Pit", I saw a vicious post pertaining to something that I thought could be reasonably discussed through alternative viewpoints. Well! I was basically told that I was in "The Pit", I obviously didn't belong there, and I needed to get the hell out NOW. LOL
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  #103  
Old 01-08-2020, 10:19 AM
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Remove the pit.
1. It's juvenile
2. What's the fuckin' use of having one thread where the non-existent list of shit you can't say is theoretically slightly shorter
  #104  
Old 01-08-2020, 10:29 AM
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I would prefer if we didn't allow pit threads to be created for the express purpose of criticizing or denigrating another member. It seems like bullying to me.
  #105  
Old 02-15-2020, 09:02 PM
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I wanna take it sideways.

Fewer rules, but more enforcement of "don't be a jerk," with a new standard being, "Goddamn, you suck."

People can post whatever they want here. But if it becomes clear to you that they're just a terrible person, you ban them. Maybe they're being terrible by poking people right in the trauma. Maybe they're being terrible by being supercilious trolls. Maybe they're being terrible by insisting on pedantic rules-parsing down to the individual electron. Whatever: in the Pit, they're revealing themselves to be awful posters, and they got to go.

Instead of the lawful neutral modding elsewhere, moderate the pit chaotic good.
Bumping to revisit this, because this is the kind of vile shit I was thinking of:

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Originally Posted by pool View Post
Anyone else thinking the cat killed itself?
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Originally Posted by pool View Post
That's some mouth on you, you blow your dead cat with that mouth?
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Originally Posted by pool View Post
Margin is just being a wet blanket, she had a recent CATastrophe you see...
If ever there were an occasion for "goddamn, you suck" moderating, this would be it.
  #106  
Old 02-15-2020, 09:18 PM
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Bumping to revisit this, because this is the kind of vile shit I was thinking of:
*snipped quoted bits*
If ever there were an occasion for "goddamn, you suck" moderating, this would be it.
I admit to being leery of your description of the kind of things you would ban. The "terrible person" standard seems to be well down the road to people who disagree with me on contentious issues.

That example though...

I would endorse trying to craft things away from intentionally attacking emotional trauma. How matters. I still don't want a lot of false positives. I would endorse better crafting of how we target something like egregious examples of targeting people's emotional traumas. I am just not sure what that looks like though.

Goddamn pool sucks.
  #107  
Old 02-15-2020, 09:23 PM
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I admit to being leery of your description of the kind of things you would ban. The "terrible person" standard seems to be well down the road to people who disagree with me on contentious issues.
Not necessarily. There's a good chance I disagree with margin as much as I disagree with pool. Her vitriol against Sanders is completely OTT. And I certainly disagree with a bevy of other posters around here way more than I disagree with pool on most contentious issues. (I'm excluding "is it okay to mock someone's grief over a dead pet" from "contentious issues" because I don't actually think it is contentious).

Whether someone's a terrible person is orthogonal, on most issues, to whether they disagree with me.
  #108  
Old 02-15-2020, 09:39 PM
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If ever there were an occasion for "goddamn, you suck" moderating, this would be it.
Goddamn, you suck == You're a jerk in a case like this. Intentionally inflaming or mocking what is, to most reasonable people, a deeply emotional event is grounds for Goddamn, you suck, you jerk. Don't come back.
  #109  
Old 02-15-2020, 10:11 PM
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I came in to say "Not as reprehensible as pool. Or Miller."

Last edited by susan; 02-15-2020 at 10:11 PM.
  #110  
Old 02-15-2020, 10:34 PM
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Just some explicit, intentional cruelty. Nothing to see here.
  #111  
Old 02-15-2020, 10:52 PM
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You can't have it both ways. The pretense of decency and honor is contradicted by behavior here and elsewhere. It's extraordinarily farcical to claim otherwise. The pit is not a playground for a privileged group to poke at others without repercussions.

If you are offended by what's posted in the Pit do as I was told to do when I expressed disgust with how people act in the Pit. I was told to stay out of the Pit. Well.. that advice works for those sensitive souls who don't like the Pit when it isn't run precisely according to their subjective sense of 'decency.'

I'm surprised there aren't 4-5 ATMB threads filled with the usual crew lobbying for a ban.
  #112  
Old 02-16-2020, 08:10 AM
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You can't have it both ways.
Sure you can. Idiot.
  #113  
Old 02-16-2020, 08:12 AM
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Goddamn, you suck == You're a jerk in a case like this. Intentionally inflaming or mocking what is, to most reasonable people, a deeply emotional event is grounds for Goddamn, you suck, you jerk. Don't come back.
I think this is the criterion: deliberately trying to inflict emotional distress, whether it succeeds or not, should result in a warning. Trolling someone who's clearly grieving over the loss of a pet, essentially taunting them about the fact that their pet is dead...yeah, that's intending to cause distress.

The first time ought to be a warning, and if it happens again, I'd say a perma-ban is probably justified.
  #114  
Old 02-16-2020, 08:42 AM
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Sure you can. Idiot.
No kidding, itís not that complicated
  #115  
Old 02-16-2020, 08:53 AM
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You can't have it both ways. The pretense of decency and honor is contradicted by behavior here and elsewhere. It's extraordinarily farcical to claim otherwise. The pit is not a playground for a privileged group to poke at others without repercussions.

If you are offended by what's posted in the Pit do as I was told to do when I expressed disgust with how people act in the Pit. I was told to stay out of the Pit. Well.. that advice works for those sensitive souls who don't like the Pit when it isn't run precisely according to their subjective sense of 'decency.'

I'm surprised there aren't 4-5 ATMB threads filled with the usual crew lobbying for a ban.
To use an analogy, there's a difference between mixed martial arts and a street fight. The pit is the octagon, not the street. You can throw punches, kicks, knees, and elbows, but you can't gouge eyes or fish hook. Even in the pit, there are boundaries.
  #116  
Old 02-16-2020, 11:42 AM
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To use an analogy, there's a difference between mixed martial arts and a street fight. The pit is the octagon, not the street. You can throw punches, kicks, knees, and elbows, but you can't gouge eyes or fish hook. Even in the pit, there are boundaries.
Of course, itís just the boundaries in the pit are you canít piss off a certain set of parasitical posters. The rules and admin clarifications were clear. Now we have folks successfully lobbying for warnings.
  #117  
Old 02-16-2020, 11:44 AM
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Sure you can. Idiot.
Hey now, might want to read the OP.

Last edited by octopus; 02-16-2020 at 11:45 AM.
  #118  
Old 02-16-2020, 11:50 AM
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Of course, itís just the boundaries in the pit are you canít piss off a certain set of parasitical posters. The rules and admin clarifications were clear. Now we have folks successfully lobbying for warnings.
If this place relies on "mob rule", how is it that you're still here? On the board that is, not just here in the Pit.

Last edited by Skywatcher; 02-16-2020 at 11:51 AM.
  #119  
Old 02-16-2020, 11:51 AM
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Of course, itís just the boundaries in the pit are you canít piss off a certain set of parasitical posters. The rules and admin clarifications were clear. Now we have folks successfully lobbying for warnings.

You shouldn't be so hard on yourself.

Oh, wait, yeah, you should.

Last edited by margin; 02-16-2020 at 11:51 AM.
  #120  
Old 02-16-2020, 11:54 AM
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When the mod officially calls you an asshole, I don't think that lobbying had much to do with it.
  #121  
Old 02-16-2020, 11:56 AM
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Sure you can. Idiot.
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You shouldn't be so hard on yourself.

Oh, wait, yeah, you should.
[Moderating]
Both of you, please re-read the OP to this thread and pay particular attention to the red text.
[/Moderating]
  #122  
Old 02-16-2020, 12:03 PM
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[Moderating]
Both of you, please re-read the OP to this thread and pay particular attention to the red text.
[/Moderating]
Ah, sorry. My apologies.
  #123  
Old 02-16-2020, 12:05 PM
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Also, please don't illustrate your arguments by linking to posts that demonstrate what you feel to be unacceptable behavior
oh shit. Sorry.

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  #124  
Old 02-16-2020, 12:07 PM
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If this place relies on "mob rule", how is it that you're still here? On the board that is, not just here in the Pit.
I donít know. Plausible deniability?

Quote:
Originally Posted by margin View Post
You shouldn't be so hard on yourself.

Oh, wait, yeah, you should.
Listen, I agree that some things said are nastier than other things. I wouldnít say them. But the point of the pit is to hurt feelings. Otherwise you couldnít insult people here. What has happened is that an in-group has succeeded in lobbying the mods to move from clearly written rules AND clearly written clarifications of said rules into a fuzzy interpretation of rules based on the in-groupís standards of so-called decency.

That implementation of reprehensible, to me, is More reprehensible than the formerly much beloved yet truly reprehensible pit. Because I dislike double standards and secret rule sets for pet posters more than I do reprehensible potty mouthedness.

Iím still surprised Bone quit and that is probably the most unfortunate aspect of this new unwritten policy,
  #125  
Old 02-16-2020, 12:17 PM
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When the mod officially calls you an asshole, I don't think that lobbying had much to do with it.
A certain mod calls me an asshole often enough in the Pit. Other mods have said worse. But itís the Pit and I shouldnít be such a snowflake. I am not a fan of it, yet here I am in a thread located in the Pit. And yes sometimes my sensitive soul gets offended and I feel compelled to respond. But to be very clear there is no real compulsion to read any message board, any forum, or any thread. So ultimately, being offended when the rules were clear and most threads have descriptive titles is completely avoidable.

I still think the pit is counterproductive for the board. I just think a fuzzy pit is worse if we are to have a pit.
  #126  
Old 02-16-2020, 12:31 PM
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Maybe you should work on the 'avoidable' part of the thing you're not a fan of?
Just a thought!

CMC fnord!
  #127  
Old 02-16-2020, 04:11 PM
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Of course, itís just the boundaries in the pit are you canít piss off a certain set of parasitical posters. The rules and admin clarifications were clear. Now we have folks successfully lobbying for warnings.
I've not followed the thread or the many pit wars that closely. Do you have some specific examples in mind?
  #128  
Old 02-16-2020, 05:06 PM
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Don't be a jerk covers it. They should have gotten warnings under the existing rules.
  #129  
Old 02-16-2020, 05:56 PM
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I've not followed the thread or the many pit wars that closely. Do you have some specific examples in mind?
The warning that indirectly led to bone quitting comes to mind. But since words donít mean what they clearly mean itís pointless to go beyond that.

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Don't be a jerk covers it. They should have gotten warnings under the existing rules.
Other than the fact that the pit is governed by a different set of rules you are 100% correct. So what is considered so-called jerkish in GG wouldnít be any issue at all here in the pit. Until it is.
  #130  
Old 02-16-2020, 06:45 PM
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Don't be a jerk covers it. They should have gotten warnings under the existing rules.
I kinda agree with octopus in that it's contradictory to say 'don't be a jerk' in a thread that specifically exists for people to let their inner jerk come out. It can easily lead to subjective interpretation. It's less subjective if you can say that someone is deliberately hitting below the belt, beyond the pale that should be allowed. When we say don't be an jerk in the pit, someone needs to be an extreme jerk. And I'm fine with a mod note, then a warning, and then something else. "Don't be a jerk" is broad. There are so many jerkish posts in the pit that that standard has no meaning. It has to be extreme.
  #131  
Old 02-16-2020, 07:03 PM
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I kinda agree with octopus in that it's contradictory to say 'don't be a jerk' in a thread that specifically exists for people to let their inner jerk come out. It can easily lead to subjective interpretation. It's less subjective if you can say that someone is deliberately hitting below the belt, beyond the pale that should be allowed. When we say don't be an jerk in the pit, someone needs to be an extreme jerk. And I'm fine with a mod note, then a warning, and then something else. "Don't be a jerk" is broad. There are so many jerkish posts in the pit that that standard has no meaning. It has to be extreme.
Every forum has different lines for jerkitude. In GQ, it's non-factual answers and political jabs. In the Pit, it's inflicting genuine emotional pain on someone. In GQ, you're a jerk if you say that Republicans are scum. In the Pit, you can say that Republicans are scum, but you're a jerk if you mock the death of a poster's cat or make fun of someone for being on medication.

For those sorts of posts, we can skip the mod notes.

Last edited by GreysonCarlisle; 02-16-2020 at 07:04 PM.
  #132  
Old 02-16-2020, 07:10 PM
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IMO, within this thread, there was a consensus of sorts that we are kinda leaving it up to Miller. I think that is the best we can do and the recent moderation reinforces that belief.
  #133  
Old 02-16-2020, 07:26 PM
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A certain mod calls me an asshole often enough in the Pit.
Unless that mod happens to be Miller, how they feel has no bearing in the Pit.
  #134  
Old 02-16-2020, 07:33 PM
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If this place relies on "mob rule", how is it that you're still here? On the board that is, not just here in the Pit.
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I don’t know. Plausible deniability?
Or maybe the staff drawing their own conclusions within their loop really isn't "bullshit" after all. The mod loop is the closest to "mob rule" as the SDMB gets; all decisions are ultimately theirs.

Last edited by Skywatcher; 02-16-2020 at 07:37 PM.
  #135  
Old 02-16-2020, 08:53 PM
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Every forum has different lines for jerkitude. In GQ, it's non-factual answers and political jabs. In the Pit, it's inflicting genuine emotional pain on someone. In GQ, you're a jerk if you say that Republicans are scum. In the Pit, you can say that Republicans are scum, but you're a jerk if you mock the death of a poster's cat or make fun of someone for being on medication.

For those sorts of posts, we can skip the mod notes.
And whoís to say in a forum that was specifically created to allow posters to insult one another what is triggering to a specific poster? Is it required to create a database and submit it to a set of psychiatrists to see what set of words may set off which particular poster? Itís ridiculous and bizarre.

So what we can go by are sequences of events. Someone gets insulted, if that insult riles up a certain group the one doing the insulting may get a warning or banned like Huey Freeman. Hell, Miller himself commented on the shadiness of bringing up the cat for sympathy. Should he warn himself?

Additionally ask yourself what is the point of insults that have no impact on the insultee. If the insults arenít meant to be hurtful then what are they meant to do? Itís really sort of a stupid premise.
  #136  
Old 02-16-2020, 10:11 PM
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And whoís to say in a forum that was specifically created to allow posters to insult one another what is triggering to a specific poster?
Nobody. Fortunately, you're the only one talking about that.
  #137  
Old 02-16-2020, 11:25 PM
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Nobody. Fortunately, you're the only one talking about that.
Obviously Iím not. Otherwise this very thread you are posting in would not exist.
  #138  
Old 02-17-2020, 03:13 AM
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In the locked thread that appears to have prompted this current discussion, I found Margins shameless use of her loss as a tool to win internet fights to be far more insulting than any of pools comments.

One was just bald insults in the pit, the other far more manipulative.
  #139  
Old 02-17-2020, 03:34 AM
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In the locked thread that appears to have prompted this current discussion, I found Margins shameless use of her loss as a tool to win internet fights to be far more insulting than any of pools comments.

One was just bald insults in the pit, the other far more manipulative.
I LOVE the way men on the Dope go in assuming ALL women are malicious evil witches while men are crusaders after JUSTICE.

I LOVE it the way you assholes just let OTHER assholes like what's his face demand people skip to his tune while a woman going WHAT THE FUCK YOU ASSHOLE is a devious plotting conniving manipulative whore. It's funny how every goddamned time you just magically decide the man is honest and intellectual and logical while the woman is an evil plotting whore bitch cunt Hillary manipulative lying slut.

When a woman says, "Hey, asshole, I have a life AND YOU SUCK" she's a lying manipulative whore. End of subject.

When a man says, "You lying manipulative whore," he's trustworthy and reasonable.

I posted links and NONE of you assholes have read ONE FUCKING THING.
  #140  
Old 02-17-2020, 04:59 AM
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Painting this as some gender thing is just more manipulative bullshit.
  #141  
Old 02-17-2020, 06:57 AM
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I don't want to relitigate this quote from a locked thread, but I find myself reflecting on its wisdom:

Quote:
Originally Posted by margin
God, I need to switch to decaf.
  #142  
Old 02-17-2020, 07:33 AM
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[Moderating]
Both of you, please re-read the OP to this thread and pay particular attention to the red text.
[/Moderating]
Apologies, I'll see my way out.
  #143  
Old 02-17-2020, 10:33 AM
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In the locked thread that appears to have prompted this current discussion, I found Margins shameless use of her loss as a tool to win internet fights to be far more insulting than any of pools comments.

One was just bald insults in the pit, the other far more manipulative.
That's bullshit. margin hadn't even logged on up to that point, so she had no need to manipulate anything in order to "win." She was explaining where she'd been since the original question was asked.

Those were not bald insults. They were manipulations striking at a very personal and sensitive area. pool wasn't even trying to "win," but solely trying to hurt.
  #144  
Old 02-17-2020, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by bucketybuck View Post
In the locked thread that appears to have prompted this current discussion, I found Margins shameless use of her loss as a tool to win internet fights to be far more insulting than any of pools comments.

One was just bald insults in the pit, the other far more manipulative.
Quote:
Originally Posted by margin View Post
I LOVE the way men on the Dope go in assuming ALL women are malicious evil witches while men are crusaders after JUSTICE.

I LOVE it the way you assholes just let OTHER assholes like what's his face demand people skip to his tune while a woman going WHAT THE FUCK YOU ASSHOLE is a devious plotting conniving manipulative whore. It's funny how every goddamned time you just magically decide the man is honest and intellectual and logical while the woman is an evil plotting whore bitch cunt Hillary manipulative lying slut.

When a woman says, "Hey, asshole, I have a life AND YOU SUCK" she's a lying manipulative whore. End of subject.

When a man says, "You lying manipulative whore," he's trustworthy and reasonable.

I posted links and NONE of you assholes have read ONE FUCKING THING.
[Moderating]
ONCE AGAIN, this thread is not the place to relitigate fights or sling insults. That's warnings for both of you.
[/Moderating]
  #145  
Old 02-17-2020, 06:58 PM
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It was nothing to do with relitigating any fight, I've never had a single exchange with that poster before.

My post was simple, this is a thread asking what sort of standards should be in the pit, and I made the point that I would prefer the crass insults to more insidious behaviours. As it seemed the mob were gearing up for a pool party I thought that the counter point was worth stating.

This thread is literally about what is reprehensible in the pit, my post is literally about what I find more reprehensible. And that is worth a warning?

Bull. Shit.
  #146  
Old 02-17-2020, 11:53 PM
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A certain mod calls me an asshole often enough in the Pit. Other mods have said worse. But itís the Pit and I shouldnít be such a snowflake. I am not a fan of it, yet here I am in a thread located in the Pit. And yes sometimes my sensitive soul gets offended and I feel compelled to respond. But to be very clear there is no real compulsion to read any message board, any forum, or any thread. So ultimately, being offended when the rules were clear and most threads have descriptive titles is completely avoidable.

I still think the pit is counterproductive for the board. I just think a fuzzy pit is worse if we are to have a pit.
If that's the way you feel, then why is the majority of your posting in the Pit?
  #147  
Old 02-18-2020, 01:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Guinastasia View Post
If that's the way you feel, then why is the majority of your posting in the Pit?
Wasn't always that way. I don't usually answer General Questions if I don't have a clue. Great Debates is rehashing too many subjects. Politics has me stumped for the most part and it feels like we are the alternate reality all other realities make fun of. I generally don't have much mundane stuff to share that isn't utterly boring. The Hearthstone thread is dead and that has me sad. I am embarrassed that my attempts to woo Abigail in Stardew Valley have been so difficult even though I have a spiffy hat and shirt so I haven't shared that until now.

So, at the moment, the Pit has some interesting interactions and sometimes it draws me in like a moth to a flame. With prose like that how can Stardew's Abigail be resisting my charms?
  #148  
Old 02-18-2020, 03:02 AM
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Originally Posted by octopus View Post
Wasn't always that way. I don't usually answer General Questions if I don't have a clue. Great Debates is rehashing too many subjects. Politics has me stumped for the most part and it feels like we are the alternate reality all other realities make fun of. I generally don't have much mundane stuff to share that isn't utterly boring. The Hearthstone thread is dead and that has me sad. I am embarrassed that my attempts to woo Abigail in Stardew Valley have been so difficult even though I have a spiffy hat and shirt so I haven't shared that until now.

So, at the moment, the Pit has some interesting interactions and sometimes it draws me in like a moth to a flame. With prose like that how can Stardew's Abigail be resisting my charms?
Fine. But if you're going to insist on posting here, suck it up and quit whining about how disgusting and vile it is. Can't have it both ways.
  #149  
Old 02-18-2020, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Guinastasia View Post
Fine. But if you're going to insist on posting here, suck it up and quit whining about how disgusting and vile it is. Can't have it both ways.
Hmm. I clearly state that I think the pit is counterproductive as whatever itís supposed to do. However, you donít see me joining an in-group and hypocritically lobbying through multiple channels of communication for warnings or bans on behavior that has been explicitly allowed in writing by former admins. If we have rules and clear clarifications of rules I think itís important that they are used as a guideline and not the howling of a precious few.

So there is no gotcha there Guin. I can think the concept of the pit is counterproductive and simultaneously think that mob rule in the Pit is even more distasteful. As to my participation in the pit? Sometimes Iím in the mood to post there. Sometimes Iím not. What you wonít find me doing is finding a group of folks to come at the mods from multiple angles and multiple decades to manipulate them in order to sanction posters for make believe rules. I can read the stickies and the clarifications and I can decide if I want to participate. Hell, Miller spent years not warning people over clear violations now he warns people over made up violations.
  #150  
Old 02-18-2020, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by margin
I LOVE the way men on the Dope go in assuming ALL women are malicious evil witches while men are crusaders after JUSTICE.
Nobody said anything about all women.

Regards,
Shodan
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