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  #251  
Old 02-15-2019, 08:06 PM
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Nancy Pelosi To GOP: A Democratic President Could Declare National Emergency On Guns

Now THIS is some first class bitch! She just hit conservatives with their greatest fear --- that <gasp> the liberals will come to take their guns away! MUUUUHAHAHAHAHA!! Fuck taking the high ground. Go for those nuts girrrrrrl.
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Old 02-15-2019, 08:28 PM
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My first thought was that it was a bad move, that it would backfire and scare guns-rights people in the 2020 election from voting for a Dem, but I think that ship already has all the cargo it will ever have. Every My-gun-is-my-penis single issue voter is long past mattering, and their numbers aren't growing these days, so what the hell.
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Old 02-15-2019, 08:38 PM
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My first thought was that it was a bad move, that it would backfire and scare guns-rights people in the 2020 election from voting for a Dem, but I think that ship already has all the cargo it will ever have. Every My-gun-is-my-penis single issue voter is long past mattering, and their numbers aren't growing these days, so what the hell.
No one cares about the 5 million or so NRA members. The issue is the other 95 Million gun owner voters.
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Old 02-15-2019, 08:50 PM
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Speaking as one of them, I welcome absolute draconian gun control in this country.
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Old 02-15-2019, 09:25 PM
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Speaking as one of them, I welcome absolute draconian gun control in this country.
As one of which? Gun owners? You would be Ok for them to confiscate your gun without recompense?
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Old 02-15-2019, 09:33 PM
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Confiscating would likely be unconstitutional. However the constitution make no guarantees about allowing the manufacturing or public sale of guns, which could be shut down by executive order in a national emergency.
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Old 02-15-2019, 11:26 PM
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My first thought was that it was a bad move, that it would backfire and scare guns-rights people in the 2020 election from voting for a Dem, but I think that ship already has all the cargo it will ever have. Every My-gun-is-my-penis single issue voter is long past mattering, and their numbers aren't growing these days, so what the hell.

I'm with DrDeth, and with your original impulse. Pelosi was too eager to score a debating point here, and didn't stop to consider how this could reverberate for literally years. We'll never know for sure, but this crack could shave a point or two (enough to make a difference in many cases) off Democratic vote totals for the next several cycles.
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Old 02-16-2019, 12:29 AM
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Speaking as one of them, I welcome absolute draconian gun control in this country.
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As one of which? Gun owners? You would be Ok for them to confiscate your gun without recompense?
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My first thought was that it was a bad move, that it would backfire and scare guns-rights people in the 2020 election from voting for a Dem, but I think that ship already has all the cargo it will ever have. Every My-gun-is-my-penis single issue voter is long past mattering, and their numbers aren't growing these days, so what the hell.
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I'm with DrDeth, and with your original impulse. Pelosi was too eager to score a debating point here, and didn't stop to consider how this could reverberate for literally years. We'll never know for sure, but this crack could shave a point or two (enough to make a difference in many cases) off Democratic vote totals for the next several cycles.
Only if confiscation was the plan, what Nancy Pelosi said was:

Quote:
“You want to talk about a national emergency?” Pelosi said. “Let’s talk about today, the one-year anniversary of another manifestation of the epidemic of gun violence in America. That’s a national emergency.”
And what was proposed back then?

https://www.cnn.com/2017/10/02/polit...ies/index.html
Quote:
Broad majorities of more than eight in 10 Republicans and Democrats (and independents who lean toward each party) support blocking people who are mentally ill and people on federal no-fly or watch lists from buying guns.
AFAIK a lot of that is still not coming up for a vote, so emergency it may be for a future Democratic president.

Last edited by GIGObuster; 02-16-2019 at 12:34 AM.
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Old 02-16-2019, 01:15 AM
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Only if confiscation was the plan, what Nancy Pelosi said was:



And what was proposed back then?

https://www.cnn.com/2017/10/02/polit...ies/index.html

AFAIK a lot of that is still not coming up for a vote, so emergency it may be for a future Democratic president.
"Broad majorities of more than eight in 10 Republicans and Democrats (and independents who lean toward each party) support blocking people who are mentally ill and people on federal no-fly or watch lists from buying guns."

Which the ACLU opposes. Not talking the NRA- the ACfuckingLU. And you know why? There's no due process. The No Fly list is especially egregious. It takes almost nothing to be put on it, and it's full of errors and false positives.

People who are mentally ill are already blocked.


Both of those are complete bullshit.

https://www.aclu.org/know-your-right...re-no-fly-list
The public does not know how many people are on the No Fly List, and the criteria for inclusion are so broad and vague that they inevitably ensnare innocent people engaged in First Amendment-protected speech, activity, or association. The process the government has established for people on the No Fly List to challenge their blacklisting is grossly insufficient and violates the Constitution’s due process guarantee. The ACLU and its affiliate in Southern California are challenging that process in court.
https://www.aclu.org/blog/national-s...e-guns-america
The government contends that it can place Americans on the No Fly List who have never been charged let alone convicted of a crime, on the basis of prediction that they nevertheless pose a threat (which is undefined) of conduct that the government concedes “may or may not occur.” Criteria like these guarantee a high risk of error and it is imperative that the watchlisting system include due process safeguards—which it does not. In the context of the No Fly List, for example, the government refuses to provide even Americans who know they are on the List with the full reasons for the placement, the basis for those reasons, and a hearing before a neutral decision-maker.
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Old 02-16-2019, 01:27 AM
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Missing the point as is usual for silly gun extremists.

The point was that the draconian solutions like confiscation of guns already accured legally, was not ever in the agenda then.

BTW I agree a bit with those items you complain about as being a bit on the bullshit side, but not as you approach it there, a lot of the systems already in place are a joke as many solutions do depend on the information that states are supposed to give voluntarily to the federal government. AFAICR many states make a very bad job on their reporting, sometimes on purpose it seems.

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Old 02-16-2019, 01:41 AM
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Missing the point as is usual for silly gun extremists.

The point was that the draconian solutions like confiscation of guns already accured legally, was not ever in the agenda then.
No only stopping people from buying guns without due process or because their name is similar to another name on a secret list, for which you can be put on for being a non-violent protester vs the death penalty, for example.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Fly_List
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Old 02-16-2019, 06:56 AM
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No only stopping people from buying guns without due process or because their name is similar to another name on a secret list, for which you can be put on for being a non-violent protester vs the death penalty, for example.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Fly_List
What part of 'BTW I agree a bit with those items you complain about as being a bit on the bullshit side" you don't get?
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Old 02-16-2019, 07:35 PM
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It doesn't matter what the specifics are. Pelosi should not put a bug in anyone's ear to "be very afraid of what will happen next time a Democrat is president". How does that help anything?
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Old 02-16-2019, 08:22 PM
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It doesn't matter what the specifics are. Pelosi should not put a bug in anyone's ear to "be very afraid of what will happen next time a Democrat is president". How does that help anything?
Oh please! Why must Democrats always be held to a higher standard than Pubbies?? EVERY DAY thump and McConnell say things much more ill-advised and incendiary than this relatively mild statement. Are you gonna get on her case for wearing a tan suit, too?? The woman's not perfect. She's not a saint. But apparently Dems HAVE to be to escape petty criticism!
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Old 02-16-2019, 11:11 PM
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Oh please! Why must Democrats always be held to a higher standard than Pubbies?? EVERY DAY thump and McConnell say things much more ill-advised and incendiary than this relatively mild statement. Are you gonna get on her case for wearing a tan suit, too?? The woman's not perfect. She's not a saint. But apparently Dems HAVE to be to escape petty criticism!
I share your frustration and find it both justified and understandable. But the political/ electoral landscape we’re operating in contains certain realities that we don’t get to ignore. One of them is that sound-bites are a thing that work.

Don’t know if you’re from California, but back in 2008 when the State Supreme Court ruled in favor of SSM, there was a big public celebration that in San Francisco. At the celebration, Mayor Gavin Newsom got in front of the crowd and crowed about the victory achieved by the good guys, and the defeat suffered by the bad guys. Part of his crowing was along the lines of ”Get used to it! You lost! You’re going to have to live with it!” (not a verbatim quote, but it captures the tone, I think.)

Within a couple of months, Prop. 8 was on the ballot for November. And one of the most widely aired radio ads in favor used that exact line from Newsom’s victory speech as its sound bite (it might have made some TV spots, too, but if so, I dodged those).

Point being, that statement from Nancy, while it’s completely consistent with an argument for NOBODY supporting the America-hating fuckstick’s declaration, is also completely unnecessary as a point to strengthen that argument, AND it gives the Forces of Evil a sound bite that they can use in 2020. And that’s something that everyone who’s serious about opposing the Forces of Evil needs to avoid doing, frustrations be damned.
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Old 02-16-2019, 11:58 PM
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I share your frustration and find it both justified and understandable. But the political/ electoral landscape we’re operating in contains certain realities that we don’t get to ignore. One of them is that sound-bites are a thing that work.

Don’t know if you’re from California, but back in 2008 when the State Supreme Court ruled in favor of SSM, there was a big public celebration that in San Francisco. At the celebration, Mayor Gavin Newsom got in front of the crowd and crowed about the victory achieved by the good guys, and the defeat suffered by the bad guys. Part of his crowing was along the lines of ”Get used to it! You lost! You’re going to have to live with it!” (not a verbatim quote, but it captures the tone, I think.)

Within a couple of months, Prop. 8 was on the ballot for November. And one of the most widely aired radio ads in favor used that exact line from Newsom’s victory speech as its sound bite (it might have made some TV spots, too, but if so, I dodged those).
...
Yep, I remember that. Newsom, that weasel , set gay rights back several years by that sound bite.
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Old 02-17-2019, 12:44 AM
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Oh please! Why must Democrats always be held to a higher standard than Pubbies?? EVERY DAY thump and McConnell say things much more ill-advised and incendiary than this relatively mild statement. Are you gonna get on her case for wearing a tan suit, too?? The woman's not perfect. She's not a saint. But apparently Dems HAVE to be to escape petty criticism!

We should NOT look at what the GOP does and take it as an excuse to descend anywhere close to their level. Also, what Kaylasdad said. This was an unforced error, which is very surprising coming from Pelosi. You are acting like I'm a Pelosi hater in general, which is weird given that my first post in this thread was:


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Pelosi is awesome, and I’ve long been mystified, and frustrated, that she hasn’t gotten more credit as a trailblazer (and extremely effective Speaker). We still haven’t had a woman president, and that’s not right; but we’ve had a female Speaker and now have one again, and that’s a HUGE deal.
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Old 02-17-2019, 05:07 PM
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We should NOT look at what the GOP does and take it as an excuse to descend anywhere close to their level. Also, what Kaylasdad said. This was an unforced error, which is very surprising coming from Pelosi. You are acting like I'm a Pelosi hater in general, which is weird given that my first post in this thread was:
I don't think you are a Pelosi hater. But I also don't think what she said constitutes "descending anywhere close to their [Pubbies'] level," that level being the bottom of a cesspool.
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Old 02-17-2019, 07:34 PM
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And of course, now we find out that even people who are barred from owning guns, still aren't actually barred.
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Old 02-18-2019, 08:01 AM
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We should NOT look at what the GOP does and take it as an excuse to descend anywhere close to their level. Also, what Kaylasdad said. This was an unforced error, which is very surprising coming from Pelosi. You are acting like I'm a Pelosi hater in general, which is weird given that my first post in this thread was:
I doubt it really matters; it was just a comment to remind Republicans about the hypothetical extension of political behavior that they've been encouraging, which is for Trump to take executive action as a way to move around Democrats in congress.

As others have said, the gun nutters already believe that the Democrats are out for their guns. There were times when Obama showed restraint in the wake of Sandy Hook and other tragedies, but I think the next president could indeed use this as a precedent to extend executive power.
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Old 02-18-2019, 09:29 AM
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I’m not concerned about the gun nutters, but the gun owners who at least sometimes vote Democratic (they do exist!).

I notice Bill Maher expressed the same concern about Pelosi’s statement on his show this weekend.
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Old 02-18-2019, 09:44 AM
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I’m not concerned about the gun nutters, but the gun owners who at least sometimes vote Democratic (they do exist!).

I notice Bill Maher expressed the same concern about Pelosi’s statement on his show this weekend.
It's an overreaction - nobody's coming for the guns and Nancy Pelosi's comments aren't going to push anyone to vote for or against Democrats who hadn't already made up their minds. Reasonable gun owners are typically not one-issue voters and if that's the case then their vote won't come down to some quote that Nancy Pelosi said in response to what amounts to executive overreach in real life.
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Old 05-23-2019, 06:08 AM
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How are Republican pundits and politicians treating/talking about Nancy Pelosi these days? I'm curious about the fact that even though she's a strong female leader, she doesn't seem to evoke the visceral scorn and hatred that (for example) Hillary does.
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Old 05-23-2019, 07:53 AM
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How are Republican pundits and politicians treating/talking about Nancy Pelosi these days? I'm curious about the fact that even though she's a strong female leader, she doesn't seem to evoke the visceral scorn and hatred that (for example) Hillary does.
I think conservatives have directed their attention to what they consider to be softer targets these days, attacking the youth and idealism of congresswomen Ocasio-Cortez, Omar, and Tlaib. Not to mention it's easier to characterize them as un-American. Not so easy to do with Pelosi.
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Old 05-23-2019, 08:10 AM
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Pelosi had a nice exchange with Kellyanne Conway following Donald's temper tantrum.
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Josh Dawsey of The Washington Post has revealed a great little anecdote from today’s whirlwind. Apparently, after Trump stomped out of his meeting with Democrats like a petulant child, Trump’s counselor Kellyanne Conway approached Speaker Pelosi and asked her if she’d like to respond to the president’s comments.

“I’ll respond to the president, not staff,” Pelosi said, making it crystal clear how little she thinks of the vile Conway.

“Wow, that’s really pro-woman of you,” Conway responded as if the woman who helped elect and continues to serve an avowed sexual predator and accused rapist cares one bit about the welfare of women.
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Old 05-23-2019, 08:16 AM
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Like I said, Pelosi knows how to push buttons. She knows how to play this game. She's been playing the game since Conway was in diapers. Conway knows how to be a propagandist and how to get through a CNN interview with Jake Tapper, but she has no idea how to respond, or even how to help the president respond, to someone like Pelosi and her tactics. Few in the cabinet do. She's a wizard.
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Old 05-23-2019, 02:13 PM
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How are Republican pundits and politicians treating/talking about Nancy Pelosi these days? I'm curious about the fact that even though she's a strong female leader, she doesn't seem to evoke the visceral scorn and hatred that (for example) Hillary does.
Are you kidding? Pelosi was the number one Boogie woman of the 2018 election. Easily rivaling Clinton for the spot of Evil witch archetype in the GOP's id. As Asahi said, they have temporarily switched to AOC as a target for the defamation cannon, but its not because they respect Pelosi.

Last edited by Buck Godot; 05-23-2019 at 02:15 PM.
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Old 05-23-2019, 02:46 PM
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Are you kidding? Pelosi was the number one Boogie woman of the 2018 election. Easily rivaling Clinton for the spot of Evil witch archetype in the GOP's id. As Asahi said, they have temporarily switched to AOC as a target for the defamation cannon, but its not because they respect Pelosi.
And AOC is a easier target. She keeps shooting her mouth off without thinking or fact checking (AOC is very smart, but not experienced yet), whereas you will never catch Pelosi in that sort of faux pas.
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Old 05-23-2019, 05:46 PM
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Pelosi is still rockin' it!
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Old 05-23-2019, 06:16 PM
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She's rocking it because she understands the game - a lot better than a bunch of fucking millennials who just decided to become interested in politics and thought it would be, like, kewl to run for office. The upstart Democrats defy her at the entire party's expense, and consequently, at the nation's expense. Get your school uniform on. Bring your backpacks. Make sure you've got pens, pencils, erasers, and notepads, and take some notes. School is in session. Nancy Pelosi is your teacher.

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Old 05-23-2019, 08:03 PM
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She seems to understand something that Peter Rodino (and to a lesser extent, Tip O'Neill) understood in 1974: that the public has to be brought on board for any potential impeachment to succeed. The vast majority of the public hasn't read the Mueller report, and investigations are the tool to inform those who need to be exposed to the evidence.

(Rodino's methodical approach — which was opposed by some on the Judiciary Committee staff — also allowed him to keep the Southern Democrats on board, which in turn allowed him to obtain enough Republican votes to squelch accusations of partisanship. It's debatable whether anything near that level of bipartisanship is achievable today, but a rush to impeachment would rule it out completely.)

Also, as has been pointed out elsewhere, at the moment she's dealing from strength. As the legal battle continues the malAdministration's position gets weaker and weaker, and its shortcomings become more and more evident; to abandon this approach in favor of a political fight, which is more CFSG's turf, would only squander this advantage.
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Old 05-23-2019, 08:16 PM
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She seems to understand something that Peter Rodino (and to a lesser extent, Tip O'Neill) understood in 1974: that the public has to be brought on board for any potential impeachment to succeed. The vast majority of the public hasn't read the Mueller report, and investigations are the tool to inform those who need to be exposed to the evidence.

(Rodino's methodical approach — which was opposed by some on the Judiciary Committee staff — also allowed him to keep the Southern Democrats on board, which in turn allowed him to obtain enough Republican votes to squelch accusations of partisanship. It's debatable whether anything near that level of bipartisanship is achievable today, but a rush to impeachment would rule it out completely.)

Also, as has been pointed out elsewhere, at the moment she's dealing from strength. As the legal battle continues the malAdministration's position gets weaker and weaker, and its shortcomings become more and more evident; to abandon this approach in favor of a political fight, which is more CFSG's turf, would only squander this advantage.
Exactly!

What moron John(T) doesn't seem to understand is that it's not just Trump's base that is against impeachment; it's right-leaning centrists and moderates. You can't just write them off. You can't just say that this additional 10-15% of voters is hopeless. But you can't expect them to just jump on board the impeachment train either.
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Old 05-23-2019, 08:59 PM
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...
Also, as has been pointed out elsewhere, at the moment she's dealing from strength. As the legal battle continues the malAdministration's position gets weaker and weaker, and its shortcomings become more and more evident; to abandon this approach in favor of a political fight, which is more CFSG's turf, would only squander this advantage.
YES!!
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Old 05-23-2019, 09:40 PM
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Exactly!

What moron John(T) doesn't seem to understand is that it's not just Trump's base that is against impeachment; it's right-leaning centrists and moderates. You can't just write them off. You can't just say that this additional 10-15% of voters is hopeless. But you can't expect them to just jump on board the impeachment train either.
What Asahi the Coward doesn't understand is that there was nowhere near the political will to impeach Bill Clinton as there was against Nixon and is against Trump. Yet, because of leadership, a concept alien and even frightening to cowards, the Republicans just went ahead and did so, thereby losing any chance they had at the White House in 2000.

Oh, wait... did I get that last wrong?

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Old 05-23-2019, 09:53 PM
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What Asahi the Coward doesn't understand is that there was nowhere near the political will to impeach Bill Clinton as there was against Nixon and is against Trump. Yet, because of leadership, a concept alien and even frightening to cowards, the Republicans just went ahead and did so, thereby losing any chance they had at the White House in 2000.

Oh, wait... did I get that last wrong?
You are borderline insane.
  #286  
Old 05-23-2019, 09:57 PM
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What Asahi the Coward doesn't understand is that there was nowhere near the political will to impeach Bill Clinton as there was against Nixon and is against Trump. Yet, because of leadership, a concept alien and even frightening to cowards, the Republicans just went ahead and did so, thereby losing any chance they had at the White House in 2000.

Oh, wait... did I get that last wrong?
I'm agnostic on impeachment. But you kinda smoodged over an important detail, which is that Republicans lost the popular vote in 2000, and only won because of a combination of quirks in our electoral college and in Florida ballots, the latter of which resulted in an enormous number of Jews casting votes for antisemite Pat Buchanan. It's not clear that 2020 Democrats have an analogous path to victory.
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Old 05-23-2019, 11:24 PM
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She's rocking it because she understands the game - a lot better than a bunch of fucking millennials who just decided to become interested in politics and thought it would be, like, kewl to run for office. The upstart Democrats defy her at the entire party's expense, and consequently, at the nation's expense. Get your school uniform on. Bring your backpacks. Make sure you've got pens, pencils, erasers, and notepads, and take some notes. School is in session. Nancy Pelosi is your teacher.
Fucking millennials are the only ones smart enough to fix this dumpster fire of a political situation that fucking ice-floe-worthy Boomers have created. Y'know, the ones who thought it'd be, like, kewl to bankrupt Social Security and set the atmosphere on fire. So thanks for that. Boomers can't and shouldn't be trusted with a god damned thing, as everything they've touched - from infrastructure to military readiness to the budget to social programs to income inequality - has been torched to the ground.

Sorry your generation has been such an abysmal failure at pretty much everything that the intelligent generation has decided they've had enough and are determined to put you in a closet where you belong. Shoulda not fucked up so badly.

Time to take a backseat, grandpa, and let some people with some fucking sanity drive. Try not to choke on your tongue back there, you demented, old fool.
  #288  
Old 05-23-2019, 11:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Chessic Sense View Post
Fucking millennials are the only ones smart enough to fix this dumpster fire of a political situation that fucking ice-floe-worthy Boomers have created. Y'know, the ones who thought it'd be, like, kewl to bankrupt Social Security and set the atmosphere on fire. ...
So, the Republican Leadership?

Because the dems havent done that.
  #289  
Old 05-24-2019, 12:41 AM
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Oh, come on A & JT. You remind me of the two Giants fans getting arrested here in CA over whether a loss was Manning's or Coughin's. Same team, different issues. (And I tune in for both your posts)

As far as bankrupting Social Security, it's takes the inept mind of a fucking millennial to even pose such a thing because that's all they heard from their dim-witted Boomer daddies. Hope the trust fund interest doesn't balk.

Last edited by Locrian; 05-24-2019 at 12:44 AM.
  #290  
Old 05-24-2019, 12:51 AM
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Right now, I want to marry Nancy Pelosi. But she'd have to settle for mistress status.
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  #291  
Old 05-24-2019, 03:49 AM
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Otto and asahi: well said.

Last edited by SlackerInc; 05-24-2019 at 03:49 AM.
  #292  
Old 05-24-2019, 08:44 AM
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The only thing keeping me from throwing my hands in the air and abandoning the Democrats during this debacle of deadline after deadline and sternly worded letters is that I accept that Nancy Pelosi has forgotten more about politics than I ever knew, and I'm hoping that her instincts here are better than mine.
  #293  
Old 05-24-2019, 09:09 AM
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A fine way to get under the skin of the self-proclaimed "extremely stable genius":
Quote:
He says he’s in charge and I suspect he may be
  #294  
Old 05-24-2019, 09:27 AM
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I love the fact that yesterday, Trump said that several high ranking people be brought up on treason charges with the possibility of the death sentence, and Pelosi questioned his sanity, and today the NY Times runs the article titled "Trump and Pelosi Trade Barbs, Both Questioning the Other’s Fitness" as if both sides are equally correct.
  #295  
Old 05-24-2019, 09:34 AM
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A fine way to get under the skin of the self-proclaimed "extremely stable genius":
With Trump, it's all psychological projection: however he describes his "enemies"* is what he is and however he describes himself is what he is not.

Yep, Pelosi is the crazy, temper-tantrum-throwing one who is unstable and going senile and can't comprehend legislative bills. Quick, Nancy, better line up some staffers to publically assure us you're not!

*Any person that is not sufficiently pro-Trump in his mind.
  #296  
Old 05-24-2019, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Fiveyearlurker View Post
I love the fact that yesterday, Trump said that several high ranking people be brought up on treason charges with the possibility of the death sentence, and Pelosi questioned his sanity, and today the NY Times runs the article titled "Trump and Pelosi Trade Barbs, Both Questioning the Other’s Fitness" as if both sides are equally correct.
And we wonder why people are horribly misinformed in this society, and how someone like Trump could get elected.
  #297  
Old 05-24-2019, 12:39 PM
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Yep, I remember that. Newsom, that weasel , set gay rights back several years by that sound bite.
He should have been will and gracious in victory.
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  #298  
Old 05-24-2019, 01:10 PM
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He should have been will and gracious in victory.
<ba-dum tishhhh!!!>
  #299  
Old 05-24-2019, 01:16 PM
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Wait, people actually appreciate what Nancy Pelosi has to say?
*pops popcorn* Now this I GOTTA see!
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  #300  
Old 05-24-2019, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiveyearlurker View Post
The only thing keeping me from throwing my hands in the air and abandoning the Democrats during this debacle of deadline after deadline and sternly worded letters is that I accept that Nancy Pelosi has forgotten more about politics than I ever knew, and I'm hoping that her instincts here are better than mine.
Remember how Pelosi was criticized for her political skills throughout the shutdown until she was ultimately proved correct?

Apparently many people don't.
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