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  #51  
Old 09-30-2019, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Left Hand of Dorkness View Post
Hell no it's not. You correctly realize that none of my claims are worth investigating, because I'm not making them in good faith: I'm just making them to waste your time.
Ergo, I also noted that Biden is running for President.

But otherwise, yes, we only have so many hours in a day and would happily add a qualifier noting "pending the time and value in doing so". But, I would also want to more strongly endorse the "having no opinion" part if we add that in to the description. If you haven't done the investigation, you should have no opinion. I have no opinion about whether there is or is not a duck with a broken wing in your local park (or whatever the example was).

Last edited by Sage Rat; 09-30-2019 at 04:32 PM.
  #52  
Old 09-30-2019, 04:45 PM
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I have no real opinion on the Biden matter, sure--because it's not something I, or anyone outside of law enforcement, needs to have an opinion on at this point. There's no credible claim being made on the subject. The only claims being made are being made in bad faith.

And what your #2 method leaves out is evaluating which claims SHOULD be evaluated. It's real important to be able to choose between claims worth looking into, and claims not worth looking into.
  #53  
Old 09-30-2019, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Left Hand of Dorkness View Post
I have no real opinion on the Biden matter, sure--because it's not something I, or anyone outside of law enforcement, needs to have an opinion on at this point. There's no credible claim being made on the subject. The only claims being made are being made in bad faith.

And what your #2 method leaves out is evaluating which claims SHOULD be evaluated. It's real important to be able to choose between claims worth looking into, and claims not worth looking into.
Minus looking, how are you supposed to identify?

I advocate for timeboxing. You decide how long it's worth and do that much honest investigation.

But, deciding in advance that there's "no there there" is always bad.

Being honest about the limitations of a timeboxed view is bad.

This thread allows people to surface any real evidence, if it can be done. For my personal level of timeboxing for the subject, I'm willing to take a brief look at their quotations but I largely leave it to others at this point.
  #54  
Old 09-30-2019, 05:14 PM
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Minus looking, how are you supposed to identify?

I advocate for timeboxing. You decide how long it's worth and do that much honest investigation.

But, deciding in advance that there's "no there there" is always bad.

Being honest about the limitations of a timeboxed view is bad.

This thread allows people to surface any real evidence, if it can be done. For my personal level of timeboxing for the subject, I'm willing to take a brief look at their quotations but I largely leave it to others at this point.
Don't you think the Hunter Biden claims have now been sufficiently debunked? They really have. If it were my thread, I'd probably say, "well, looks like it was all a conspiracy theory started up by that guy at The Hill. The timing doesn't work and there's zero evidence of any wrongdoing. I'm glad we looked into this, but this issue can be put to bed. Can a mod please close this thread at this point?"
  #55  
Old 09-30-2019, 05:15 PM
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Between 1 and 2 is a spectrum of ways to operate, of course, but only pure adherence to 2 is a sane or useful way to operate.
Are you sure this isn't a typo and you meant "insane"? We live in a world with finite resources, including our own time. Needing to personally investigate every crackpot theory before rendering an opinion on the matter is just going to be an exercise in pointless frustration.

I don't need to personally investigate your patent for a energy creation machine that violates the laws of thermodynamics, no. It's not up to me to prove you are wrong, nor do I really care much to look at your evidence, or read your newsletter. I'm still about 99.99% confident that you are wrong, and I'm not going to waste my time on the minuscule chance you may have actually discovered something that completely upends physics while working in your garage.
  #56  
Old 09-30-2019, 05:21 PM
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Don't you think the Hunter Biden claims have now been sufficiently debunked? They really have. If it were my thread, I'd probably say, "well, looks like it was all a conspiracy theory started up by that guy at The Hill.
You might take a gander at the OP.
  #57  
Old 09-30-2019, 05:22 PM
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Thanks for that.
  #58  
Old 09-30-2019, 08:18 PM
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You might take a gander at the OP.
I read every post in this thread, including the OP. You didn't think there was any there there, and everyone basically agrees, so why not just ask to have it closed rather than allowing a place for someone to post that, hey, Hunter made money while serving on a board (the horrors!) so there's obviously something dirty there.

Whatever. It's your thread, enjoy!
  #59  
Old 09-30-2019, 09:17 PM
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Don't you think the Hunter Biden claims have now been sufficiently debunked? They really have. If it were my thread, I'd probably say, "well, looks like it was all a conspiracy theory started up by that guy at The Hill. The timing doesn't work and there's zero evidence of any wrongdoing. I'm glad we looked into this, but this issue can be put to bed. Can a mod please close this thread at this point?"
Before it's closed I'll add that the Republicans ought to be trying like Hell to get Biden nominated, because Trump has the best chance of winning against him. Next best is Bernie, because he has screaming, idiotic online followers you can mine for "This Is What Bernie Bros Actually Believe" segments, in order to paint the whole DNC as the Cult Of Bernie The Jew Socialist Who's Gun-Grabbing And Jewish.
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  #60  
Old 09-30-2019, 10:03 PM
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...I'll add that the Republicans ought to be trying like Hell to get Biden nominated, because Trump has the best chance of winning against him. Next best is Bernie, because he has screaming, idiotic online followers you can mine for "This Is What Bernie Bros Actually Believe" segments, in order to paint the whole DNC as the Cult Of Bernie The Jew Socialist Who's Gun-Grabbing And Jewish.
Tramp himself may feel most threatened by Ms Warren. But his grasp on reality is... quirky. Biden now, sure, but with a Warren poll bounce, she'll get the full treatment.

BTW I'm in the "Biden is too old for this shit" camp.

Bidens are easy oppo targets because they've been around awhile. Anything can be linked to them, with or without basis. That's how conspiracy theories are built.
  1. Point to some stuff: people, places, things, events, whatever.
    (None of that 'stuff' need be actual. Invent-em as needed.)
  2. Fantasize some connection between them. That fantasy is now fact.
  3. Point to other stuff. Fantasize more links. Now you have more facts.
  4. Any contradictions or critiques are obviously enemy disinfo.
We shall soon learn about Biden family depravities, degeneracies, impurities, drug or sex etc addictions, ritual Satanic tattoos, cheating in kindergarten, bed-wetting, and Area 51 secrets. What? Hunter Biden is a Zeta Reticulan hybrid? Lord have mercy!
  #61  
Old 09-30-2019, 10:57 PM
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Tramp himself may feel most threatened by Ms Warren. But his grasp on reality is... quirky. Biden now, sure, but with a Warren poll bounce, she'll get the full treatment.
Yes, she'll get the Nasty Woman treatment from Trump and the Bernie Bros but I think she'll stand up to it better because she doesn't have the kind of historical hatred, which means she doesn't have the history of smoke which would convince the low-information voters (See? I can be polite enough to avoid calling them idiots!) that there must be smoke so I'd best just stay home.

Quote:
BTW I'm in the "Biden is too old for this shit" camp.

Bidens are easy oppo targets because they've been around awhile. Anything can be linked to them, with or without basis. That's how conspiracy theories are built.
  1. Point to some stuff: people, places, things, events, whatever.
    (None of that 'stuff' need be actual. Invent-em as needed.)
  2. Fantasize some connection between them. That fantasy is now fact.
  3. Point to other stuff. Fantasize more links. Now you have more facts.
  4. Any contradictions or critiques are obviously enemy disinfo.
We shall soon learn about Biden family depravities, degeneracies, impurities, drug or sex etc addictions, ritual Satanic tattoos, cheating in kindergarten, bed-wetting, and Area 51 secrets. What? Hunter Biden is a Zeta Reticulan hybrid? Lord have mercy!
Biden is legitimately too old in that his health is a concern even without lying about it, and his past opposition to busing is just one example of how he's old enough to have some bad positions in his past.
  #62  
Old 10-01-2019, 02:14 AM
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"U.S. banking records show Hunter Bidenís American-based firm, Rosemont Seneca Partners LLC, received regular transfers into one of its accounts ó usually more than $166,000 a month ó from Burisma from spring 2014 through fall 2015, during a period when Vice President Biden was the main U.S. official dealing with Ukraine and its tense relations with Russia."

https://thehill.com/opinion/white-ho...obe-is-revived
You're gonna have to do a lot better than a John Solomon-penned op-ed.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/leaked...ine-conspiracy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_S...al_commentator)
  #63  
Old 10-01-2019, 04:16 PM
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If you were, say, a Republican operative on a cable news show playing up the Hunter Biden "scandal", how would you answer the following question? I would have thought it would have been asked by someone by now, but I haven't heard it.

"You are making the claim that Vice President Biden behaved improperly in Ukraine. Given that the he was acting at the behest of President Obama during his time there, why would he authorize Biden to intercede in such a way to benefit his son Hunter? In other words, what the fuck does Obama care about Biden's son, and why would he risk his reputation to make such an authorization?"

Am I missing an obvious response that would add some substance to the right's attack?

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  #64  
Old 10-01-2019, 04:26 PM
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If you were, say, a Republican operative on a cable news show playing up the Hunter Biden "scandal", how would you answer the following question? I would have thought it would have been asked by someone by now, but I haven't heard it.

"You are making the claim that Vice President Biden behaved improperly in Ukraine. Given that the he was acting at the behest of President Obama during his time there, why would he authorize Biden to intercede in such a way to benefit his son Hunter? In other words, what the fuck does Obama care about Biden's son, and why would he risk his reputation to make such an authorization?"

Am I missing an obvious response that would add some substance to the right's attack?
I think the obvious answer that a Republican would give to your hypothetical question is:

"Because Obama hates America and is probably the AntiChrist."

simple, really.
  #65  
Old 10-01-2019, 09:04 PM
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I think the obvious answer that a Republican would give to your hypothetical question is:

"Because Obama hates America and is probably the AntiChrist."

simple, really.
It is in the Book of Revelation:
"The King of Amerika a Black guy will be,
and long his reign of tyranny!"

No, wait, that is Nostradamus.
NM
  #66  
Old 10-02-2019, 10:10 AM
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"You are making the claim that Vice President Biden behaved improperly in Ukraine. Given that the he was acting at the behest of President Obama during his time there, why would he authorize Biden to intercede in such a way to benefit his son Hunter? In other words, what the fuck does Obama care about Biden's son, and why would he risk his reputation to make such an authorization?"
Well, that's an easy one to answer.
President Obama was a nincompoop. He was basically incompetent amateur, playing at being the President (witness him begging Russia to give him more space, followed by Russia taking more space, or him begging President Putin to stop hacking US elections, then proudly declaring "I'm a big boy, Russia stopped hacking our elections!", and then suddenly it turned out Russia stepped up its hacking of our elections, immediately after Obama's desperate pleas.
The same with Biden's son story: Obama saw absolutely nothing wrong with Hunter Biden, who managed to get kicked out of the Reserves due to his coke addiction, serving on the board of the largest Ukrainian gas company. This was, of course, at the time Obama was pandering hard to Russia, refusing to impose real sanctions on Putin or provide lethal weapons to Ukraine.
Heck, I remember White House Press Secretary being asked point blank if there was not an itty-bitty conflict of interest with Hunter Biden getting paid 50K a month for a job he had no qualifications for and Vice-President Biden's incompetent handling of Ukraine's affairs. The Press Secretary was clearly disturbed and managed to stammer something along the lines of "Well, Hunter Biden is a private citizen, so you know, it's kinda ok for him to be involved in Ukranian politics". (and in Ukraine, gas IS politics).
So, to sum up the answer: incompetence, corruption and greed at Obama's administration made them turn blind eye to Hunter Biden's clearly inappropriate behavior.
  #67  
Old 10-02-2019, 10:28 AM
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What do you imagine Hunter's inappropriate behavior consists of?
  #68  
Old 10-02-2019, 11:13 AM
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You're gonna have to do a lot better than a John Solomon-penned op-ed.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/leaked...ine-conspiracy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_S...al_commentator)
Banking records are fact checkable. Nowhere in the link to the Daily Beast did they refute the fact Hunter Biden's company was paid large sums of money. Feel free to provide a link that does, IF YOU CAN.

The link you did provide shows that John Solomon's fellow journalists at the Hill are biased against Trump and conservatives and are butt hurt that no one invites them onto Fox News the home of real journalists.
  #69  
Old 10-02-2019, 11:15 AM
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You're gonna have to do better than a John Solomon-penned op-ed.
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Old 10-02-2019, 11:17 AM
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Well, that's an easy one to answer.
President Obama was a nincompoop. He was basically incompetent amateur, playing at being the President (witness him begging Russia to give him more space, followed by Russia taking more space, or him begging President Putin to stop hacking US elections, then proudly declaring "I'm a big boy, Russia stopped hacking our elections!", and then suddenly it turned out Russia stepped up its hacking of our elections, immediately after Obama's desperate pleas.
The same with Biden's son story: Obama saw absolutely nothing wrong with Hunter Biden, who managed to get kicked out of the Reserves due to his coke addiction, serving on the board of the largest Ukrainian gas company. This was, of course, at the time Obama was pandering hard to Russia, refusing to impose real sanctions on Putin or provide lethal weapons to Ukraine.
Heck, I remember White House Press Secretary being asked point blank if there was not an itty-bitty conflict of interest with Hunter Biden getting paid 50K a month for a job he had no qualifications for and Vice-President Biden's incompetent handling of Ukraine's affairs. The Press Secretary was clearly disturbed and managed to stammer something along the lines of "Well, Hunter Biden is a private citizen, so you know, it's kinda ok for him to be involved in Ukranian politics". (and in Ukraine, gas IS politics).
So, to sum up the answer: incompetence, corruption and greed at Obama's administration made them turn blind eye to Hunter Biden's clearly inappropriate behavior.
Derp.
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Old 10-02-2019, 11:40 AM
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Derp.
Joined today, first post. FTR.
  #72  
Old 10-02-2019, 08:26 PM
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What do you imagine Hunter's inappropriate behavior consists of?
It consists of having his father exert political pressure on his behalf, in a country, where Hunter Biden is employed by a major company, while having no qualifications for the job.
  #73  
Old 10-02-2019, 08:33 PM
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It consists of having his father exert political pressure on his behalf, in a country, where Hunter Biden is employed by a major company, while having no qualifications for the job.
Welcome to the Straight Dope! I hope your stay here is long and fruitful.

Elections is one of our debate forums and we usually provide cites for our claims. Please cite your claim that his father exerted political pressure on his behalf. Also, please provide a cite that he was employed by them, rather than just being on the board of directors. Many members of boards of directors don't have relevant experience, so this in an important distinction.

Thanks in advance.
  #74  
Old 10-02-2019, 08:38 PM
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It consists of having his father exert political pressure on his behalf, in a country, where Hunter Biden is employed by a major company, while having no qualifications for the job.
There's no qualifications for the job. George W Bush appointed Hunter to the Amtrak Board of Directors in 2006. Did you know that? And the political pressure his dad applied was the exact same pressure the IMF, various EU leaders and the American ambassador exerrted. Did you know that?
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Old 10-02-2019, 09:02 PM
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And the political pressure his dad applied was the exact same pressure the IMF, various EU leaders and the American ambassador exerrted. Did you know that?
Please provide proof for your claim that the political pressure applied by his dad was the exact same pressure, applied by the IMF, various EU leaders and the American ambassador, and not the pressure, he applied because an obvious conflict of interests in play here.
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Old 10-02-2019, 09:08 PM
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Please cite your claim that his father exerted political pressure on his behalf.
Joe Biden himself was caught on tape, bragging about pressuring Ukrainian authorities to fire Prosecutor Shokin. If you have any evidence whatsoever, that the pressure was NOT applied on behalf of his son, I'd be very curious to see it.

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Also, please provide a cite that he was employed by them, rather than just being on the board of directors. Many members of boards of directors don't have relevant experience, so this in an important distinction.
Right, so it looks like even more obvious and open case of corruption. At least in case of former Polish President sitting on board of Burisma we can take a guess as to why he was there: to peddle his influence.
What role do you think Hunter Biden was hired to perform by Burisma? What is it that made them hire him?

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Thanks in advance.
You're welcome.
  #77  
Old 10-02-2019, 09:11 PM
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... He was basically incompetent amateur, ...
Sounds convincing.
  #78  
Old 10-02-2019, 09:16 PM
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There's no qualifications for the job. George W Bush appointed Hunter to the Amtrak Board of Directors in 2006. Did you know that? And the political pressure his dad applied was the exact same pressure the IMF, various EU leaders and the American ambassador exerrted. Did you know that?
I've got to correct a misunderstanding you may have inadvertently created with this post.

It's true the IMF, various EU leaders and the American ambassador exerted pressure for Ukraine to fire Ukrainian prosecutor general Shokin. But the pressure was brought to fire him was because he wasn't prosecuting corruption enough -- not because he was prosecuting Hunter Biden's company. In other words, the prosecutor general was letting corruption in Ukraine slide. The IMF, various EU leaders, the American ambassador and Joe Biden, in his official role as a representative of the United States and acting in our country's best national security interests were all acting to have Shokin fired for ignoring his responsibilities as a prosecutor. Biden never attempted in any way to intercede on behalf of his son one way or another.

Moreover, by the time Joe Biden acted in Ukraine, the investigation into Burisma had already been closed. Hunter Biden joined the Burisma board in April 2014. Joe Biden did not threaten to withhold aid to Ukraine until March 2016 -- long after an investigation into Burisma had been shelved in 2014 and throughout 2015.

There is simply no there there.

Cite with easily-followed timeline included. (Media Matters) One of many, easily found with a Google search.

Last edited by Aspenglow; 10-02-2019 at 09:17 PM.
  #79  
Old 10-02-2019, 09:20 PM
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Joe Biden himself was caught on tape, bragging about pressuring Ukrainian authorities to fire Prosecutor Shokin.
Caught on tape? Or giving a speech?

Quote:
If you have any evidence whatsoever, that the pressure was NOT applied on behalf of his son, I'd be very curious to see it.
What do you think Hunter Biden was in trouble for? What do you think his company was being investigated for?

Quote:
What role do you think Hunter Biden was hired to perform by Burisma? What is it that made them hire him?
You donít appear to understand how boards of directors work. They are lobbyists for their companies. Is there nepotism here? Sure. What makes it any more corrupt then all of the other nepotism that occurs in business?

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Originally Posted by LAZombie
Nowhere in the link to the Daily Beast did they refute the fact Hunter Biden's company was paid large sums of money. Feel free to provide a link that does, IF YOU CAN.
Iíll concede the fact. What makes this scandalous?
  #80  
Old 10-02-2019, 09:25 PM
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I've got to correct a misunderstanding you may have inadvertently created with this post.

It's true the IMF, various EU leaders and the American ambassador exerted pressure for Ukraine to fire Ukrainian prosecutor general Shokin. But the pressure was brought to fire him was because he wasn't prosecuting corruption enough -- not because he was prosecuting Hunter Biden's company. In other words, the prosecutor general was letting corruption in Ukraine slide.
I didn't have that misunderstanding personally, I just failed to correct that specific error. It has already been mentioned more than once in the thread.
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Old 10-02-2019, 09:28 PM
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Please provide proof for your claim that the political pressure applied by his dad was the exact same pressure, applied by the IMF, various EU leaders and the American ambassador, and not the pressure, he applied because an obvious conflict of interests in play here.
No. You're not allowed to be that fucking lazy so look it up yourself.
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Old 10-02-2019, 09:28 PM
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I didn't have that misunderstanding personally, I just failed to correct that specific error. It has already been mentioned more than once in the thread.
I know, and I knew you personally had no misunderstanding. I've just seen endless evidence across this forum that people rarely read all the posts in a thread before posting. I've even been guilty of it myself. Things need to be raised again and again and again and again...
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Old 10-02-2019, 09:36 PM
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Joe Biden himself was caught on tape, bragging about pressuring Ukrainian authorities to fire Prosecutor Shokin. If you have any evidence whatsoever, that the pressure was NOT applied on behalf of his son, I'd be very curious to see it.


Right, so it looks like even more obvious and open case of corruption. At least in case of former Polish President sitting on board of Burisma we can take a guess as to why he was there: to peddle his influence.
What role do you think Hunter Biden was hired to perform by Burisma? What is it that made them hire him?


You're welcome.
Sorry, that's not how this works. You've made claims, so you have to back them up. Plus, it would be impossible to prove that pressure was NOT applied -- trying to prove a negative and all that. So, please provide the cites I asked for. Thanks in advance.

If you want to just make cite-free assertions, that's fine, but I don't think they work that well in our debate forums (Great Debates and Elections). Maybe you meant to post this in a thread in IMHO or the Pit?
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Old 10-03-2019, 04:33 AM
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No. You're not allowed to be that fucking lazy so look it up yourself.
Sorry, that's not how this works. You've made claims, so you have to back them up.
Please provide cite for your claim that the pressure applied by Joe Biden
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Originally Posted by CarnalK View Post
was the exact same pressure the IMF, various EU leaders and the American ambassador exerrted.
I remind you, that for this statement to be true, you would have to prove that the pressure they applied consisted of following elements that Joe Biden admitted when he was caught on tape:
1. They would have to demand that Ukrainian authorities fired a specific prosecutor.
2. They would have to threaten to withdraw $1 billion in aid, if the previous demand was not met.
3. They would have to demand that the firing occurred within the timeframe of 6 hours.

If this cannot be proven (and it's highly unlikely that it can be), then we know the pressure that Joe Biden applied was different then "IMF, various EU leaders and the American ambassador exerted" (perhaps the pressure they applied consisted of asking Ukrainian authorities to "please, pretty please, promote the prosecutor in question, so he's out of the way" ).
And the next logical question would be, why did the pressure that Joe Biden apply was different, then the pressure exerted by "the IMF, various EU leaders and the American ambassador"? Was it because his son was involved in Ukrainian politics?
And the logical answer is, because of obvious conflict of interests that Obama administration allowed to occur here, we don't know.
So, let's have a congressional hearing (at the very least), where Joe Biden and Hunter Biden testify under oath, documents will be subpoenaed, etc, etc, etc.
  #85  
Old 10-03-2019, 04:38 AM
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You donít appear to understand how boards of directors work. They are lobbyists for their companies.
And who do you think Burisma thought Hunter Biden was going to lobby, when they hired him?
It could not possibly have been his father, who just happened to be Vice President of the country that refused to provide lethal weapons to Ukraine, refused to impose real sanctions on Russia, and whose President had a history of begging Russia on a range of questions, from pleading for "more space" to "please, don't hack our elections"...
Or could it?
  #86  
Old 10-03-2019, 04:49 AM
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Sorry, that's not how this works. You've made claims, so you have to back them up. Plus, it would be impossible to prove that pressure was NOT applied -- trying to prove a negative and all that. So, please provide the cites I asked for. Thanks in advance.
It is impossible to prove that the pressure was or was not applied on behalf of his son: that's why we need congressional inquiry, where both father and son will testify under oath.
But the circumstantial evidence is damning, and that's why the fake news media, controlled by Democrats are going into overdrive, trying to squash this story.
For example, here's MSNBC, doing it's "fact-checking" (in other words, lying) and claiming that "Donald Trump has repeatedly suggested without evidence that Joe Biden used his VP position to fire the country top prosecutor".
  #87  
Old 10-03-2019, 06:33 AM
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It is impossible to prove that the pressure was or was not applied on behalf of his son: that's why we need congressional inquiry, where both father and son will testify under oath.
But the circumstantial evidence is damning, and that's why the fake news media, controlled by Democrats are going into overdrive, trying to squash this story.
For example, here's MSNBC, doing it's "fact-checking" (in other words, lying) and claiming that "Donald Trump has repeatedly suggested without evidence that Joe Biden used his VP position to fire the country top prosecutor".
Wow. Thanks for opening my eyes. How ashamed I am of having been such an easily-gulled sheeple.

Here's a way to prove that pressure applied by Biden pere was not for the benefit of his son: Ukraine has stated that Hunter Biden was not a subject of the investigation. If you're in no legal danger, you have no need of protection from legal action. Q.E.D.

The investigation was into the owner of the company who was also Minister of Natural Resources from 2010-2012. The investigation was exploring alleged corruption and self-dealing. The prosecutor in charge was widely viewed as burying the investigation, which led to calls from the IMF, the US, the UK, and (IIRC) the EU to clean house and have a prosecutor who would pursue corruption replace him.

Clearly, this is news to you; to suggest otherwise would be to imply that you were arguing in bad faith, and we don't do that here.

But then, you're brand-new, so you wouldn't have known that.
  #88  
Old 10-03-2019, 06:35 AM
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It is impossible to prove that the pressure was or was not applied on behalf of his son: that's why we need congressional inquiry, where both father and son will testify under oath.
But the circumstantial evidence is damning, and that's why the fake news media, controlled by Democrats are going into overdrive, trying to squash this story.
For example, here's MSNBC, doing it's "fact-checking" (in other words, lying) and claiming that "Donald Trump has repeatedly suggested without evidence that Joe Biden used his VP position to fire the country top prosecutor".
Why don't the "real news media" do their investigative reporting duties and uncover all of this evidence? The Senate is welcome to open any investigation they want. I doubt the House will, since they already control the media, according to you, and don't need to do it themselves. Also, why do you say Joe Biden was caught on tape when he was instead bragging in an interview about how they rooted out corruption? Remember, it was the prosecutor that was stopping exactly the kind of investigation that apparently you'd like to see.

Anyway, if you're going to make statements like "fake news media, controlled by Democrats", I think our discussion will not prove fruitful so I'll let you have the final word if you'd like to respond. I'm satisfied that this thread has already shown that there's no there there in the Hunter Biden non-scandal.
  #89  
Old 10-03-2019, 06:39 AM
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It is impossible to prove that the pressure was or was not applied on behalf of his son: that's why we need congressional inquiry, where both father and son will testify under oath.
...
Are you sure that we don't need Ukraine to investigate like Trump wanted?
  #90  
Old 10-03-2019, 06:43 AM
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For example, here's MSNBC, doing it's "fact-checking" (in other words, lying) and claiming that "Donald Trump has repeatedly suggested without evidence that Joe Biden used his VP position to fire the country top prosecutor".
Wow, that is some shamefully deceptive editing. I wonder why that YouTuber didn't let the rest of the sentence play? Oh, right ... because the rest of the sentence would have been something like "...in order to protect his son, Hunter."

Don't feel bad about being fooled by that. Not everyone is aware of all the deceptive tricks right-wingers will stoop to in order to try to win a lost battle.
  #91  
Old 10-03-2019, 09:06 AM
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for this statement to be true, you would have to prove that the pressure they applied consisted of following elements that Joe Biden admitted when he was caught on tape:
1. They would have to demand that Ukrainian authorities fired a specific prosecutor.
"Goalposts have lifted off...."

Quote:
2. They would have to threaten to withdraw $1 billion in aid, if the previous demand was not met.
"Goalposts have achieved orbit...."

Quote:
3. They would have to demand that the firing occurred within the timeframe of 6 hours.
"Goalposts at Warp 2... Warp 3... Warp 4...."
__________________
The Internet: Nobody knows if you're a dog. Everybody knows if you're a jackass.
  #92  
Old 10-03-2019, 09:39 AM
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And who do you think Burisma thought Hunter Biden was going to lobby, when they hired him?
Iíve seen nothing that Bidenís duties included lobbying. Are you just making this up?
  #93  
Old 10-03-2019, 11:17 AM
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It consists of having his father exert political pressure on his behalf, in a country, where Hunter Biden is employed by a major company, while having no qualifications for the job.
How about a cite, or at the very least, some semblance of an argument that H. Biden had no qualifications to be a board member of Burisma. I'm sure it's easy to just parrot the this from whatever right-wing trash news you absorb, but saying it over and over doesn't make it true.
  #94  
Old 10-03-2019, 12:14 PM
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Remember how barely more than a month ago the news was all about how we shouldn't believe Biden's stories?
  #95  
Old 10-03-2019, 12:21 PM
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Someone should talk to these GOP senators, and ask them why they were doing exactly the same thing Biden was, and were asking the inept prosecutor to be removed.

Perhaps all of these GOP senators should be investigated? I mean, they were doing the exact same thing Biden was.
  #96  
Old 10-03-2019, 03:23 PM
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The more I read about Hunter Biden, the more I donít like him. He seems to be cut from the same cloth as the Trump boys in some ways - drug use, affairs, privileged career, etc.

But hereís the thing: just because I think someone is a douche doesnít constitute evidence they have done something illegal. Itís clear to me that the reason Trump and Rudy want him investigated is to damage Bidenís presidential run, egged on by the Putin/Manafort den of snakes who peddle conspiracy theories.

But if Trump wants to use the government to investigate the offspring of politicians for political advantage in the absence of specific allegations of wrongdoing, it seems the country has two choices:

1. Get rid of Trump and put an end to this shit; or
2. Jared, Ivanka, Don Jr, and Eric better have attorneys more skilled than Rudy, because they will need them.
I agree wholeheartedly. Douchiness does not mean doing anything illegal, but one can be a douche and a criminal. I would love to see something made of Trumps kids ... look, I know I got my first job because my Dad worked for the company, but I spent real time apprenticed and taking machine tech and ended up fully qualified for the job I did. I would like to know for example exactly hat Ivanka was doing and what her actual qualifications and pay was ... and if she is actually doing that job or her underlings are doing all the work and she just gets the photographs taken for show.
  #97  
Old 10-03-2019, 04:30 PM
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Kurt Volker, Trump's ex-envoy to Ukraine, said in testimony before a House committee today that he warned Giuliani that he was receiving untrustworthy information from Ukrainian political figures about Biden and his son.
  #98  
Old 10-03-2019, 04:34 PM
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The person behind that claim appears to be the same person who wrote Clinton Cash
Just an update on this.

It appears Peter lifted several passages from....

WIKIPEDIA !

https://www.thedailybeast.com/peter-...pedia?ref=home
  #99  
Old 10-03-2019, 07:20 PM
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How about a cite, or at the very least, some semblance of an argument that H. Biden had no qualifications to be a board member of Burisma. I'm sure it's easy to just parrot the this from whatever right-wing trash news you absorb, but saying it over and over doesn't make it true.
A man who's a drug addict is not fit to be on a board of any major corporation, that's kinda obvious, despite whatever trash liberal Goebbels propaganda you absorb.
  #100  
Old 10-03-2019, 07:24 PM
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"Goalposts have lifted off...."



"Goalposts have achieved orbit...."



"Goalposts at Warp 2... Warp 3... Warp 4...."
So, just like user user CarnalK, you're unable to provide any evidence for the claim that

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarnalK View Post
the political pressure his dad applied was the exact same pressure the IMF, various EU leaders and the American ambassador exerrted.
?
That's ok, just admit it, and we can move with the discussion.
Reply

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