#1  
Old 04-25-2019, 12:38 PM
Dinsdale is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2000
Posts: 18,228

In praise of the bean - diet/wt loss


I know several folk here have discussed diet/fitness. Just wanted to add my datapoint in progress.

I'm 57. 6'3", have weighed betw 205-210# for the past 10 years or more. Reasonably fit/active. I never tried to diet or anything - seem to have a high metabolism.

My wife has long struggled to lose weight and improve her blood pressure/#s. One of her big problems is that when counting calories and such, she always felt hungry. And I have always needed some bulk (pasta, rice, bread, etc) to fill me up.

I won't go through the whole process that led us here, but for the past month or so, we've been eating pretty much veggie, and trying to avoid refined grains. Not being strict at all. For example, when we had company, we cooked a pork roast. And at my sister's over Easter, we had ham. But at home, we generally avoid meat.

We long had difficulty eating enough greens/salads. Once the bowl of salad gets to a certain size, we feel like cows chewing away.

Not sure why it took us so long, but we recently started cooking beans. Peas, lentils, black, black-eyed... Without making this post too long, we are eating AS MUCH AS WE WANT, yet we don't feel hungry. My wife's blood pressure is better than it has been in years AND she stopped taking her BP meds. And BOTH of us are consistently BELOW our historic 5# weight ranges. Weighed myself this a.m. - 201#! And I don't feel any loss of energy or anything - just got back from a hard 30 mile bike ride. Interested in seeing how my bloodwork turns out during my annual physical in June.

Just wanted to toss this out there. Maxing out on the beans and whole grains seems like it might be a no effort/no pain way to reduce weight and improve blood pressure/chemistry. Cheap, tasty, and easy to prepare as well. If folk want to discuss recipes or literature or anything, I'm up for that.
__________________
I used to be disgusted.
Now I try to be amused.
  #2  
Old 04-25-2019, 01:31 PM
Thudlow Boink's Avatar
Thudlow Boink is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Lincoln, IL
Posts: 26,862
Okay, but doesn't eating all those beans make you... musical?
  #3  
Old 04-25-2019, 01:53 PM
Dinsdale is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2000
Posts: 18,228
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thudlow Boink View Post
Okay, but doesn't eating all those beans make you... musical?
Yeah, somewhat, but not in a way that seriously cramps my style. Seems like mostly in the evenings - when my wife and I are home alone. And after 33 yrs of marriage, we are WELL past the point of caring if we hear each other fart. And they aren't necessarily loud and smelly. You asked!)

But it isn't uncontrollable or anything. I (and people around me! ) haven't noticed it being an issue at work, or when I go out places.

And, from what I understand, it is quite common for that effect to lessen over time, after your body gets used to the diet. We'll see.
__________________
I used to be disgusted.
Now I try to be amused.
  #4  
Old 04-25-2019, 02:06 PM
VOW is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: NE AZ
Posts: 2,757
Oh, good, time for a shameless bit of horn tooting...pun intended

http://https://www.vegparadise.com

Scroll down on the right hand side and click on the "guest contributor" column, Using Your Bean.

Backstory: I was diagnosed with Diabetes Type 2 on my 50th birthday. Happy freaken birthday, right?

I was given the HORRIBLE American Diabetes Association diet, the one with exchanges. Along with following that damned diet, I started researching everything I could get my hands on. The most profound piece of information was a study by the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine. Using control groups, these guys discovered that a VEGAN diet did the best job for control of blood sugar, reducing blood pressure and lowering cholesterol levels. I figured, "What the Hell, why not?"

Further research into Veganism found me at the webzine "Vegetarians in Paradise." I met the people there (NICE folks!), and when I explained my situation and said I wanted to explore heirloom beans, they offered me theopportunity to write a column on my search!

The column also explains my journey with Diabetes, as well.

I stayed Vegan for a couple of years, then I switched to Vegetarian, all total, eight years.

Then I fell for the siren call of pork, alas... that was about ten years ago.

I'd like to eventually return to at least Vegetarian. I felt a lot better when I eliminated meat.


~VOW
  #5  
Old 04-25-2019, 02:24 PM
Dinsdale is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2000
Posts: 18,228
What I like is that we seem to be experiencing benefits w/o going to extremes. Like I said, if we feel like meat, we'll eat it. But not as regularly as before - and likely not as much. And I'll use butter. Or I'll eat chips if I go somewhere and they have them - I just don't buy them for home. Eating sensibly 15-18 or so meals out of the week's 21 seems to be doing the trick.

My wife just completed a year-long pre-diabetes class at the local hospital. They said the ONLY way to lose weight was to count EVERYTHING you put in your mouth. Who the hell wants to live like that? And - like I said - when reducing intake like that, my wife always felt hungry, so she would binge and lose any advantage. Punchline - after a year, NOT A SINGLE participant had lost weight!

She is showing more benefit after the past month or so, than over a year of that program.
__________________
I used to be disgusted.
Now I try to be amused.
  #6  
Old 04-25-2019, 02:41 PM
slalexan is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Michigan
Posts: 357
I don't want to rain on your parade. Beans are delicious and a great grain for balancing out and bulking up meals.

But, honestly, the best science we have is that, in order to lose weight in a sustainable manner, you gotta keep track of what you eat. It is a big part of why Weight Watchers works. Humans in general are terrible at estimating how much they eat so, in order to reduce their calories, they need to measure it in the first place. Tracking helps people reliably reduce their calorie intake and, therefore, lose weight. It takes a lot of discipline though.

Which is why most of the information on the internet about diet is about dealing with how to be disciplined. How to deal with hunger, how to avoid binges, how to time your meals to keep from being hungry, that sort of thing. And more vegetables, including beans, are frequently recommended due to their lower calorie density.

I'll finish up with saying that, for most people, losing weight is really really hard, even if you find some "easy" way to do it.

For me, you talk about just not being hungry. I don't think I've ever really experienced that except when I'm sick. My only "off" switch is when I get uncomfortably full. I don't get that 80% full feeling that you are supposed to get. I'm probably never going to "naturally" eat just the amount I should. It will probably always be a bit of work for me.
  #7  
Old 04-25-2019, 03:00 PM
Dinsdale is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2000
Posts: 18,228
Quote:
Originally Posted by slalexan View Post
I don't want to rain on your parade. Beans are delicious and a great grain for balancing out and bulking up meals.

But, honestly, the best science we have is that, in order to lose weight in a sustainable manner, you gotta keep track of what you eat. ...
Hey - rain away.

First off, I'm more concerned with health, than weight loss. I'm not someone who really needed to lose weight. And my blood pressure was always rock solid. Cholesterol coulda been a bit lower.

And the science of nutrition always confused me. How the body processes different sugars and such. So many ostensibly informed people offering directly contradictory advice. Wait - are eggs good or bad for me today?

My wife did TONS of reading, and from what I read and what she told me, I'm surprised that someone could say that there is a clear consensus as to what "the best science" says.

Like I said, I'm only a month or so into this. There might be some other explanation for why my wife and I have consistently felt pleasantly sated, yet weigh less than either of us have for a decade or more, with her blood pressure lower than it has been in at least as long. But for the life of me, I can't think of any other aspect of our lifestyles that have changed.

And we DO keep track of what we eat. Just our experience and understanding is that if you are eating the right thing, you can eat as much of it as you want. There IS a lot of science out there to support that. Whether anyone considers that to be the "best" is up to them.

I should point out that I'm the kinda person who just views food as fuel. I'd eat people kibble if it were nutritious and tasty enough. Don't get me wrong - I like tasty food, but I don't need a vast variety. We've found several simple dishes that we both find very tasty. Probably wouldn't serve them to company (yet!)
__________________
I used to be disgusted.
Now I try to be amused.
  #8  
Old 04-25-2019, 05:08 PM
panache45's Avatar
panache45 is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: NE Ohio (the 'burbs)
Posts: 43,046
Quote:
Originally Posted by VOW View Post
Backstory: I was diagnosed with Diabetes Type 2 on my 50th birthday. Happy freaken birthday, right?
Wow, so was I. That was over 23 years ago, and I just became vegan, due to kidney disease. Not just vegan, but with reduced sodium, potassium, tomatoes and many other foods. I'm barely allowed to eat anything but boiled cabbage and cauliflower, and berries.
  #9  
Old 04-25-2019, 06:02 PM
slalexan is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Michigan
Posts: 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dinsdale View Post





And the science of nutrition always confused me. How the body processes different sugars and such. So many ostensibly informed people offering directly contradictory advice. Wait - are eggs good or bad for me today?



My wife did TONS of reading, and from what I read and what she told me, I'm surprised that someone could say that there is a clear consensus as to what "the best science" says.



Like I said, I'm only a month or so into this. There might be some other explanation for why my wife and I have consistently felt pleasantly sated, yet weigh less than either of us have for a decade or more, with her blood pressure lower than it has been in at least as long. But for the life of me, I can't think of any other aspect of our lifestyles that have changed.



And we DO keep track of what we eat. Just our experience and understanding is that if you are eating the right thing, you can eat as much of it as you want. There IS a lot of science out there to support that. Whether anyone considers that to be the "best" is up to them.


I probably should have mentioned that diet science is not the best. We don’t really have a good way to study it long term and a lot of the science out there is biased by the various economically interested parties. It’s hard to say there is a ton of consensus because of this. But we do know that tracking works.

With that in mind, it’s hard to say what exactly are the “right” foods. And, if a person is like me, they will find a way to overeat even those foods.

(Did you know I can eat a whole pound of carrots in one sitting like it’s nothing? This is not a skill I want.)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  #10  
Old 04-25-2019, 06:47 PM
Chefguy's Avatar
Chefguy is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Portlandia
Posts: 41,805
I've just returned to the holy beany way. I suddenly realized that I am really deficient in my protein intake and need to up the ante. When you hit your 70s, muscle loss becomes a real problem. Tonight's dinner was a seasoned chicken burrito topped with black beans (seasoned with onion, garlic, cumin, oregano, cayenne), and a cup of said beans on the side. Huge protein hit. I'm also a carb addict (Hi, Chefguy!) and have got to pare back on that shit.
  #11  
Old 04-25-2019, 08:18 PM
CairoCarol is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 4,812
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chefguy View Post
I've just returned to the holy beany way. I suddenly realized that I am really deficient in my protein intake and need to up the ante. When you hit your 70s, muscle loss becomes a real problem. Tonight's dinner was a seasoned chicken burrito topped with black beans (seasoned with onion, garlic, cumin, oregano, cayenne), and a cup of said beans on the side. Huge protein hit. I'm also a carb addict (Hi, Chefguy!) and have got to pare back on that shit.
This post reminds me of a recipe you once posted - I don't recall what you named it, but in my files it's "Chef Guy's Black Bean Chili with Chicken." That recipe introduced me to smoked paprika, which is now a staple in my kitchen. (How did I live so long without it, I now ask myself.) The chili is delicious! I haven't made it in a while, maybe I'll cook some up tonight. Yum.
__________________
If I waited for memory to serve, I'd starve.
  #12  
Old 04-25-2019, 10:08 PM
VOW is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: NE AZ
Posts: 2,757
Quote:
Originally Posted by slalexan View Post
I don't want to rain on your parade. Beans are delicious and a great grain for balancing out and bulking up meals.

But, honestly, the best science we have is that, in order to lose weight in a sustainable manner, you gotta keep track of what you eat. It is a big part of why Weight Watchers works. Humans in general are terrible at estimating how much they eat so, in order to reduce their calories, they need to measure it in the first place. Tracking helps people reliably reduce their calorie intake and, therefore, lose weight. It takes a lot of discipline though.

Which is why most of the information on the internet about diet is about dealing with how to be disciplined. How to deal with hunger, how to avoid binges, how to time your meals to keep from being hungry, that sort of thing. And more vegetables, including beans, are frequently recommended due to their lower calorie density.

I'll finish up with saying that, for most people, losing weight is really really hard, even if you find some "easy" way to do it.

For me, you talk about just not being hungry. I don't think I've ever really experienced that except when I'm sick. My only "off" switch is when I get uncomfortably full. I don't get that 80% full feeling that you are supposed to get. I'm probably never going to "naturally" eat just the amount I should. It will probably always be a bit of work for me.
Have you ever TRIED a Vegan diet???

Honestly, your jaw gets tired of chewing before you hit the max calorie intake!

All of the fattening goodies you can think of-- well, if you are Vegan you ask yourself, "Is their dairy? Are their eggs?" And damn near most of the time, you answer "Yes." And then you tell yourself, "Can't have it, it's not Vegan."

Even if you haunt the supermarkets and health food stores, and buy the fake meats, and fake cheese, you still come out ahead.

Try it!


~VOW
  #13  
Old 04-25-2019, 10:11 PM
VOW is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: NE AZ
Posts: 2,757
And, by the way, if you visit "Vegetarians in Paradise" the link to Using Your Bean is on the LEFT hand side.

One of these days, I'm going to get left and right figured out!


~VOW
  #14  
Old 04-26-2019, 01:44 AM
CairoCarol is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 4,812
Quote:
Originally Posted by VOW View Post
Have you ever TRIED a Vegan diet???

Honestly, your jaw gets tired of chewing before you hit the max calorie intake!

All of the fattening goodies you can think of-- well, if you are Vegan you ask yourself, "Is their dairy? Are their eggs?" And damn near most of the time, you answer "Yes." And then you tell yourself, "Can't have it, it's not Vegan."

Even if you haunt the supermarkets and health food stores, and buy the fake meats, and fake cheese, you still come out ahead.

Try it!


~VOW
Vegan food can be fattening too. A local cafe in my neighborhood serves a delicious vegan cheesecake which is quite rich; I think the principal ingredients are coconut oil, cocoa, tofu, and maple syrup. Your jaw absolutely does not get "tired of chewing before you hit the max calorie intake."

I've personally made vegan dips, primarily from pinto beans and olive oil, to serve with whole wheat crackers. Tasty? Sure. Low calorie? Not so much.



.
__________________
If I waited for memory to serve, I'd starve.

Last edited by CairoCarol; 04-26-2019 at 01:45 AM.
  #15  
Old 04-26-2019, 01:47 AM
Sleel is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Japan
Posts: 2,834
I made chili and corn bread for my Japanese wife a couple of times. She loved it! But the aftereffects made her declare that I’m no longer allowed to make and consume chili. Nor anything with beans. In fact, I’m not even allowed to look at beans any more.

She was fine. I’m the one who gets gas bad enough to nearly end a marriage.

I always had bad gas as a kid. Not just the toots, but room-clearing, paint-stripping, blame-it-on-the-skunk-eating-dog gas. I could never “sneak” one; everyone always knew it was me. My mom went through a health phase for a couple of years that included near-vegan eating and juicing* because it was the late 80s and fat was teh evulz.

The only time in my life I’ve been even close to gas-free is a few years into doing CrossFit when I went more or less Paleo with my food. Turns out, grains and beans do Very Bad Things to me. I went from pooping 2–3 (or more) times a day, with horrible gas and frequent cramping on a nearly-daily basis — which was my “normal” for most of my life — to having what most people consider normal gut health.

I wasn’t doing the “Atkins with a twist” version of paleo (i.e. meat and cheese, with shots of nut-encrusted lard on the side) but actual-factual paleo: eating metric shit-tonnes of veggies along with adequate animal protein. So, I found out it isn’t dietary fiber that gives me gas, it’s any kind of beans and many starches§, especially bread or pasta.

YMMV, but going vegan would destroy me.

***

* Making fruits and vegetables into horrid shake-like theoretically edible substances, NOT doing steroids.

I was doing gymnastics regularly until I was about 13, off and on until about 15, and joined the swimming and diving team during my freshman year, so I now wonder if this impacted my growth. I was by no means food-deprived at the time (we finally had a lower middle-class income by then) but I remember always being hungry. We had to track our food intake for a week for biology class once. I was taking in 3,000+ calories a day … as a scrawny 5'8" 140 lb. kid.

This was what it took to provide enough energy for 2–3 hours of practice in the pool. The pool was heated, but outdoors, and even in California it’s cold during the “spring” season; from January to about early April, you’d have a decent chance of having ice on the end of the board at morning practices. With more meat and fat, I might have had better fueling and therefore better growth, or at least more muscle than I had on that high-carb low- fat and protein diet.

I’m a CrossFit-hipster. I started doing it around late 2005, early 2006. I was CrossFitting before it was “cool”

§ Rice seems to be pretty benign, at least for me. Lucky me, or my wife probably would have thrown me out. Not eating rice in Japan is practically like declaring a religious war.

… or at least my guts. And make the area around me extremely unpleasant for other life forms.
  #16  
Old 04-26-2019, 07:31 AM
Dinsdale is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2000
Posts: 18,228
Quote:
Originally Posted by slalexan View Post
...
For me, you talk about just not being hungry. I don't think I've ever really experienced that except when I'm sick. My only "off" switch is when I get uncomfortably full. ....
When I find a food I like, I tend to gorge myself. Like pizza. Or Italian beef at parties. And like I said, since I was a kid I always felt the need for large quantities of "filler" - potatoes, pasta, bread - to fill me up.

My personal experience (others might well vary) is that a big bowl of beans/lentils/vegies and grain fill me up quite nicely - AND stick with me such that I don't immediately feel the urge for a snack. And if the first big bowl doesn't fill you up, go ahead and have a SECOND big bowl!

FWIW - I just had a big old piece of a coffee cake that was in the office break room this a.m. So I'm not at all about going strictly vegan, or avoiding fattening foods.
__________________
I used to be disgusted.
Now I try to be amused.
  #17  
Old 04-26-2019, 09:09 AM
VOW is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: NE AZ
Posts: 2,757
For the gas generators: take a trip to an Asian market and look for dried seaweed. There will be many types, what you want is a "leaf" that looks like it could be used to shingle houses. It's called KOMBU. Put a two-inch piece in with the dried beans when you soak them overnight. Drain the beans the next morning, keeping the KOMBU with the beans. Add water, veggies, cook as usual. The KOMBU will disintegrate during cooking, and will make the beans more "digestible." Ahem.

If you can prowl around a local Mexican market, look for a dried herb EPAZOTE. It can bd either with other dried herbs, or even with the teas. It also tames the bean. Since it is a stronger flavored herb, it is best in more seasoned bean dishes. EPAZOTE can also be brewed as a tea for stomach woes.

The "pinch of baking soda" does nothing for potential gassiness, IMHO.


~VOW
  #18  
Old 04-26-2019, 09:18 AM
VOW is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: NE AZ
Posts: 2,757
To CairoCarol

If you want to eat Vegan cheesecake for every meal, yeah, you can thwart any dieting attempt.

I'm talking about day to day eating. Vegan casseroles, soups, salads, I even made Sloppy Joes with my own Seitan that were damn good. ALL Vegan food is not loaded with calories.

I'll take a guess and say that Vegan cheesecake was expensive.

As an aside: eating Vegan will also BURN calories, spending all that time in the kitchen, cleaning, chopping, and cooking vegetables, LOL!


~VOW
  #19  
Old 04-26-2019, 09:18 AM
slalexan is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Michigan
Posts: 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dinsdale View Post
When I find a food I like, I tend to gorge myself. Like pizza. Or Italian beef at parties. And like I said, since I was a kid I always felt the need for large quantities of "filler" - potatoes, pasta, bread - to fill me up.

My personal experience (others might well vary) is that a big bowl of beans/lentils/vegies and grain fill me up quite nicely - AND stick with me such that I don't immediately feel the urge for a snack. And if the first big bowl doesn't fill you up, go ahead and have a SECOND big bowl!

FWIW - I just had a big old piece of a coffee cake that was in the office break room this a.m. So I'm not at all about going strictly vegan, or avoiding fattening foods.
That's true. Beans are great filler. I love them.

However, like I said, I won't eat them in moderation unless I'm consciously trying. The point I am getting at is that, for some people, maintaining a healthy weight and diet may never be "effortless."

But, dude, get me some black bean soup. I love that stuff.
  #20  
Old 04-26-2019, 09:25 AM
Chefguy's Avatar
Chefguy is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Portlandia
Posts: 41,805
Quote:
Originally Posted by CairoCarol View Post
This post reminds me of a recipe you once posted - I don't recall what you named it, but in my files it's "Chef Guy's Black Bean Chili with Chicken." That recipe introduced me to smoked paprika, which is now a staple in my kitchen. (How did I live so long without it, I now ask myself.) The chili is delicious! I haven't made it in a while, maybe I'll cook some up tonight. Yum.
I still make that, but I've upped the ante for most all my stews and soups by adding umami bombs like unflavored gelatin, anchovy, Worcestershire and the like, usually a combination of two or three of them.
  #21  
Old 04-26-2019, 09:28 AM
VOW is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: NE AZ
Posts: 2,757
Unflavored gelatin is a source of umami? Do tell Chefguy!


~VOW
  #22  
Old 04-26-2019, 10:49 AM
Dinsdale is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2000
Posts: 18,228
Quote:
Originally Posted by slalexan View Post
...The point I am getting at is that, for some people, maintaining a healthy weight and diet may never be "effortless."
...
Sure, our society, including food production and distribution, makes it easy to be sedentary and eat crap. So choosing not to requires SOME effort - at least in terms of willpower or character. But having made that choice, I'm finding the "effort" minimal.
__________________
I used to be disgusted.
Now I try to be amused.
  #23  
Old 04-26-2019, 10:57 AM
Walken After Midnight is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 4,524
Fennel tea is good for reducing fartiness.
  #24  
Old 04-26-2019, 11:11 AM
VOW is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: NE AZ
Posts: 2,757
"Willpower" is a bullshit term invented to make people feel weak and stupid.

I know exactly what slalexan is talking about. Some people are missing that "off" switch. And you can't shame them into having one. Then you combine that with the Agribiz contrived junk food, it's a recipe for disaster.

I've lived it. I know how society makes you feel like a moral failure, all the while you use the scale and measuring cups and portions, all the while you know that pittance on the plate simply will not assuage your hunger.

Fortunately, weight loss surgery is more readily available. It won't replace your busted "off" switch, but it HELPS. And before people jump on me and tell me how the surgery can be circumvented, save your breath and your keyboarding fingers. I know already. It isn't a perfect solution. But it's a Helluva lot better than a quack diet, a strict calorie regimen, or harping about willpower.

If you can't or won't try surgery, then read up about the Glycemic Index of foods, read about Insulin Resistance, and then take a serious look at Veganism.

And if anyone mentions "willpower" again, you're gonna get served a soap sandwich.


~fat VOW
  #25  
Old 04-26-2019, 12:17 PM
Dinsdale is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2000
Posts: 18,228
Quote:
Originally Posted by VOW View Post
"Willpower" is a bullshit term invented to make people feel weak and stupid....
I strongly disagree. Whether you call it willpower, character, or something else, some people are obviously able and/or willing to resist gratification in ways others claim is impossible.
__________________
I used to be disgusted.
Now I try to be amused.
  #26  
Old 04-26-2019, 01:19 PM
Cardigan's Avatar
Cardigan is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 3,514
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dinsdale View Post
I strongly disagree. Whether you call it willpower, character, or something else, some people are obviously able and/or willing to resist gratification in ways others claim is impossible.
This presupposes the same inner experience exists uniformly in everyone and consequently the same level of ‘resistance to gratification’ is required of everyone. That may not be the case. It’s likely individuals register hunger and satiety at very different levels.

I’m reminded of a part in M.K. Ghandi’s Autobiography where he said someone was heaping praise on him how he was so virtuous for being so open-minded and tolerant of different races and religions, and Ghandi replied he could make no claims to being virtuous in that regard, as he grew up in an environment where such open-minded attitudes were pervasive and considered perfectly normal. It required no effort on his part to assume those attitudes; they were simply given to him because of where he grew up. Similarly, people may be wired to perceive hunger triggers at different levels owing to no particular effort or virtue on their part. In other words, how much can one be ‘resisting gratification’ if they’re registering little or no hunger impulse to resist, as compared to someone who is experiencing far stronger impulses? Willpower is needed relative to the internal impulse that’s being opposed.
  #27  
Old 04-26-2019, 01:48 PM
Chefguy's Avatar
Chefguy is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Portlandia
Posts: 41,805
Quote:
Originally Posted by VOW View Post
Unflavored gelatin is a source of umami? Do tell Chefguy!


~VOW
It's a thickener and emulsifier, which helps spread the joy throughout the dish. Umami includes those other things I mentioned, plus fish sauce, soy sauce, marmite, tomato paste and Parmesan cheese to name a few.
  #28  
Old 04-26-2019, 02:53 PM
VOW is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: NE AZ
Posts: 2,757
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dinsdale View Post
I strongly disagree. Whether you call it willpower, character, or something else, some people are obviously able and/or willing to resist gratification in ways others claim is impossible.
"Willpower" is when someone of normal weight wants to lose ten pounds before the High School reunion. Cuttibg back on the carbs, eliminating junk food, and upping an exercise routine will handle the ten pounds. There are no gigantic pangs, no urge to stand in front of the refrigerator with a fork, no self-questioning of your moral worthiness.

When a person is 100 pounds or more overweight, the "off" switch is busted, or absent entirely. No "off" switch means there is no satiation. One cookie or a hundred, the person will still want more. That is NOT a moral failing or an absence of willpower. Something is physically wrong.

There are studies of vagal nerve stimulation, to mimic the "off" switch. There will probably be some brain irregularity, a missing genetic code. If the hardwiring is whack, it's almost impossible for the power of the mind to overcome it.


~VOW

Last edited by VOW; 04-26-2019 at 02:55 PM.
  #29  
Old 04-26-2019, 03:58 PM
CairoCarol is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 4,812
Quote:
Originally Posted by VOW View Post
"Willpower" is when someone of normal weight wants to lose ten pounds before the High School reunion. Cuttibg back on the carbs, eliminating junk food, and upping an exercise routine will handle the ten pounds. There are no gigantic pangs, no urge to stand in front of the refrigerator with a fork, no self-questioning of your moral worthiness.

When a person is 100 pounds or more overweight, the "off" switch is busted, or absent entirely. No "off" switch means there is no satiation. One cookie or a hundred, the person will still want more. That is NOT a moral failing or an absence of willpower. Something is physically wrong.
~VOW
I mostly agree with this, but I wouldn't put all the focus on a "busted switch," which implies a physical abnormality at the individual level. If that were the most common cause of obesity, we wouldn't have seen the dramatic increase we have witnessed in the US in the last few decades. Clearly, something external is at work. I wouldn't presume to know the exact answer, but it is pretty clear that the foolish emphasis on "low-fat" and the constant temptation of easily available, tasty, highly processed junk food are factors. Perhaps somewhere along the way, the switch gets busted - but I don't think that's where a lot of cases of obesity begin.

You are spot-on about the moral dimension, though. I'm among those lucky folks for whom maintaining a decent weight is not absurdly hard. I did gain 20 unwanted pounds after menopause, and taking them off was hard work, but I know it was nothing like what actually fat people go through trying to lose weight (for one thing, it's such a long slow process that it must be horrifyingly depressing).

I liken it to sitting next to a stranger on an airplane. If you get seated next to a really overweight person who is encroaching on your space, it's easy to start thinking, "fat slob! Why don't they get some willpower and stop stuffing their face, lazy pig!" But for all you know, that 250-pound woman you are sitting next to was 350 pounds last year, and is in the middle of a valiant struggle to lose weight.

On the other hand, you could be seated next to a handsome, well-dressed stranger who is the very picture of grace and charm. And he may be beating his wife, cheating on his taxes, or making life miserable for his employees by his insane demands.

The difference is, you can SEE fat. You can't see a lot of other dimensions of people just by looking at them. So yeah, I'm not into judging fat people as moral failures.

.
__________________
If I waited for memory to serve, I'd starve.

Last edited by CairoCarol; 04-26-2019 at 03:59 PM.
  #30  
Old 04-26-2019, 06:22 PM
VOW is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: NE AZ
Posts: 2,757
Thank you for your generous input, CairoCarol!

A HUGE part of the increasing obesity epidemic is what I call Agribiz. Soda used to be an occasional treat. Now it's cheaper than milk, and more readily available. High fructose corn syrup, a key ingredient in soda, is a concentrated sweetening agent, and it's cheap to make. What goes with soda? Salty, greasy snacks.

People would be appalled at the power of the marketing force. A lot of number crunching and psychoanalyzing goes into selling you processed foods.

Women in the workforce depend on convenience (read: sugar, salt, grease, processed) foods to feed their families. God knows, I certainly depended on Hamburger Helper, Tuna Helper, even Chicken Helper as a frazzled working mom. And let's be honest, when you are coming home at night, tired down to the bone, a trip to McDonald's is a Godsend.

People are more sedentary. Kids get driven everywhere! Those who do exercise drive to the gym!

But one of the most insidious causes is evolution. We used to be nomadic hunters and gatherers. When Ock and Tik killed a mastodon, their tribe feasted. And they ate everything! People packed on the pounds in times of plenty, especially the womenfolk. Those extra pounds meant that when there were no more berries to gather, and the antelope had migrated to new areas, the people survived on their fat. The extra fat on a woman allowed her to carry a pregnancy to term, and feed her child. Folks in those days prided in their extra fat as a sign of wealth.

Evolution hasn't yet progressed to the computer age. The availability of empty calories and the absence of exertion to hunt and gather tells our metabolism, "This is a time of plenty! Eat and save the fat for later on!"

We never reach the lean times, so we are all stuck in "storage" mode.

THEN folks decide to diet! The abrupt reduction of calories tells the metabolism, "EMERGENCY, EMERGENCY! It's time of famine!" And the metabolism slows down to that of a rutabaga, and burns very very few of those extra fat cells.

It's a sad but true story!


~VOW
  #31  
Old 04-26-2019, 06:49 PM
Two Many Cats is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Chicago
Posts: 4,654
And now for more history, a ditty from the Civil War:

The German is fond of sauerkraut.
The potato is loved by the Mick.
But the soldiers have long since found out
That through life to our beans we should stick.

T'is the bean that we mean.
And we'll eat as we ne'er ate before.
Army bean, nice and clean.
We shall stick to our beans evermore.
  #32  
Old 04-27-2019, 07:27 PM
romansperson's Avatar
romansperson is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,643
I made your peanut soup today, VOW (though I used regular milk instead of soymilk since that's just not a thing in our house). It is delicious and the texture is fantastic (and finally got me to use the peanut butter grinder at our co-op today, I'd been curious about it for awhile. It smells wonderful while making your peanut butter for you).
  #33  
Old 04-28-2019, 01:08 AM
VOW is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: NE AZ
Posts: 2,757
Thank you, romansperson! I do so appreciate the feedback!

I think my favorite of all the soups was the pumpkin sausage. I easily could have hidden in the back of a closet with the whole soup pot and a big spoon...just so I wouldn't have to share with anyone!

I hope you try some of the other soups as well!


~VOW
__________________
Klaatu Barada Nikto
  #34  
Old 04-28-2019, 03:04 AM
Ashtura is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,150
Millions of people on Rice and bean diets can't be wrong. You will be hard pressed to find fat Brazilians. When I lived there I found it impossible to maintain weight and actually got around 40 pounds underweight, even by cheating eating peanut butter sandwiches.
  #35  
Old 05-19-2019, 05:47 PM
Dinsdale is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2000
Posts: 18,228
Update:

For the past 10 years or more, my weight has been between 205-210#. I remain consistently below 205#, and last week hit a recent low of 200.6#. Just think that's been pretty crazy, since I've eaten as much as I've wanted, and even splurged on junk whenever it has been available.

Also, my wife is having a colonoscopy tomorrow. That posed a bit of a problem, as for the past couple of days she was supposed to not eat beans, and other fibrous things that had become major parts of our diets. So we had an excuse to eat like we had previously. We had a couple of meat dishes, a pizza one night. Even bought ice cream yesterday since she was going on jello and gatorade today! Punchline? Eating that stuff, we both felt hungrier than we did on our beans, veggies and grains.

I imagine other people's metabolisms and such might work differently, and the restaurants and food companies sure make it easy to eat unhealthy stuff - but it has just been so easy for us to eat less crao and more fiber and veggies.
__________________
I used to be disgusted.
Now I try to be amused.
  #36  
Old 05-19-2019, 07:35 PM
puzzlegal's Avatar
puzzlegal is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 4,331
I just heard about a study on the radio that seems designed to grace this thread:

https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt...ve-weight-gain

Here's the punchline:
Quote:
The study, conducted by researchers at the National Institutes of Health, is the first randomized, controlled trial to show that eating a diet made up of ultra-processed foods actually drives people to overeat and gain weight compared with a diet made up of whole or minimally processed foods. Study participants on the ultra-processed diet ate an average of 508 calories more per day and ended up gaining an average of 2 pounds over a two-week period. People on the unprocessed diet, meanwhile, ended up losing about 2 pounds on average over a two-week period.
I am lucky to have a good "off switch". I'm fat because I gained a lot of weight with each pregnancy, and decided I didn't want to do the work to try to lose it. But other than that, my weight has been stable for decades, despite eating whatever the hell I want. I'm convinced that maintaining weight is just objectively harder for some people than for others.

Fwiw, my diet is less processed than the typical American's, and my husband and I cook a lot of what we eat. But I also have a good intuitive sense of how filling (caloric) different foods are. I remember reading some expose of how many calories were in a Starbucks frappe. Now, I ordered one of those once. It was at an airport, and I was starving because I'd missed supper. And I couldn't finish the thing. I mean, I took it onto the plane with me and then I was stuck holding this drink that I could not bring myself to consume. It was delicious. It was just too filling. Yeah, not surprised to learn that it had enough calories to fuel me for a day.
  #37  
Old 05-19-2019, 08:04 PM
puzzlegal's Avatar
puzzlegal is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 4,331
This also feels like a good thread to post my favorite bean dish. I just had it for supper.

2-3 carrots
1-2 sticks of celery
3-6 leaves of chard. (it's better with 3, but my supermarket sells chard in bundles of 6, so I use 6.)
2 cans butter beans. (Goya, 15.5 oz)
1 can dark kidney beans (progresso, 19 oz)
1 can cannellini (progresso, 19 oz)
1 can diced tomatoes (15 oz, I like del Monte)
3 quarts broth (since getting an instant pot, I've been using home made chicken broth, but canned vegetable broth is okay.)
1 lb pasta (Barilla holds up well without disintegrating as leftovers)
Tomato paste (I used to use "sun dried" tomato paste, which was fabulous, but any old tomato paste will do, or none. I used none today.)
Basil (several leaves, fresh picked, or a spoonful of dried)
Vegetable oil

Start heating the frozen broth in a large pot (you can skip this step if you use canned or boxed broth)

Peel and chop the carrots,
Chop the celery
Separate the chard stems from the leafy parts. Chop the stems and cut the leaves into large pieces, maybe 2"x2"

Saute the chopped veggies in the oil in a large pot. Hmm, mine isn't labeled, but it's bigger than the 6 quart pot, and smaller than the 11 quart pot. The 6 quart pot isn't big enough.

Open the cans of beans, rinse them in tap water (I think it makes them less gassy) and dump into the pot. Immediately add the broth, so the beans don't saute. Add the diced tomatoes and tomato paste. Then bring to a boil.

When the soup has just begun to boil, add the pasta, chard leaves, and basil. Stir well. Return to a simmer and cook about 10 minutes, or until the pasta is done to your taste.

Serves lots. Or three of us with lots of leftovers. I portion out the leftovers into 2/3 or 3/4 quart servings, which is a good size for lunch. The pasta will absorb the broth and the leftovers will be stew, not soup. I add a little water and nuke until hot.

I really like the variety of textures and flavors in the soup, and think the three beans play well with each other.
  #38  
Old 05-20-2019, 02:14 AM
panache45's Avatar
panache45 is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: NE Ohio (the 'burbs)
Posts: 43,046
One thing to watch out for: If you're on a reduced-sodium diet, stay away from canned beans. They contain a lot of hidden sodium. It's really no big deal to soak "raw" beans overnight instead.
  #39  
Old 05-20-2019, 08:04 AM
Dinsdale is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2000
Posts: 18,228
That recipe sounds a lot like something we would cook, but we'd skip the pasta. Reducing carbs/refined grain is another part of our efforts. PAsta might not be "ultra-processed" - whatever that means. But it is still quite processed. If we wanted some filler, we'd make whole grain rice, quinoa, buckwheat, etc.

And we'd generally make it w/o the broth. Just ends up more of a stew than a soup.
__________________
I used to be disgusted.
Now I try to be amused.
  #40  
Old 05-20-2019, 09:49 AM
puzzlegal's Avatar
puzzlegal is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 4,331
Quote:
Originally Posted by panache45 View Post
One thing to watch out for: If you're on a reduced-sodium diet, stay away from canned beans. They contain a lot of hidden sodium. It's really no big deal to soak "raw" beans overnight instead.
From my perspective, anything that requires advanced planning is a big deal. That's why I never use a slow cooker. (Well, also I didn't like any of the food I made in it.) And even soaked brand take q while to cook, at least, the large ones like butter beans do. One thing I love about this recipe is that I can pick up the chard on the way home from work and have a nice supper quickly.

But my broth is very low sodium, so the dish needs salt. Getting it from the canned beans and canned tomatoes just means I don't need to add any salt separately. I can see it being a problem if you also start with salty broth.
  #41  
Old 05-20-2019, 09:52 AM
puzzlegal's Avatar
puzzlegal is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 4,331
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dinsdale View Post
That recipe sounds a lot like something we would cook, but we'd skip the pasta. Reducing carbs/refined grain is another part of our efforts. PAsta might not be "ultra-processed" - whatever that means. But it is still quite processed. If we wanted some filler, we'd make whole grain rice, quinoa, buckwheat, etc.

And we'd generally make it w/o the broth. Just ends up more of a stew than a soup.
Yeah, I imagine pasta counts as "ultra processed". I've made the same dish without the pasta, for a gluten-sensitive friend. It's really better with the pasta. My favorite part is how the pasta soaks up the broth and tastes rich and delicious. But barley might work instead, if you want a less-processed starch.
  #42  
Old 05-20-2019, 10:03 AM
Dinsdale is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2000
Posts: 18,228
Quote:
Originally Posted by puzzlegal View Post
Yeah, I imagine pasta counts as "ultra processed". I've made the same dish without the pasta, for a gluten-sensitive friend. It's really better with the pasta. My favorite part is how the pasta soaks up the broth and tastes rich and delicious. But barley might work instead, if you want a less-processed starch.
I like pasta as well. We started re-examining our diets a few years back after reading The China Study and other similar books. We reduced our protein, but substituted easy carbs like pasta, minute rice. And that wasn't good for my wife's weight or blood chemistry.

In the years since, my wife decided that for her, reducing carbs and increasing fiber was a significant factor. In short, we both crave a lasting feeling of satiety. Beans, veggies, and whole grains provide that for us in a way simple carbs didn't. Even tho I might think that I "like" the taste/mouthfeel of pasta, I'm just as happy to use a whole grain - or just have another scoop of beans and veggies.

We are fortunate that we both have somewhat simple and compatible palates. I don't perceive us as following "recipes" so much as tossing stuff together, but my wife has more specific ideas than I as to what goes with what. And yes, you should always look for the sodium on canned goods. I'm often surprised that they make it so hard to ascertain which tomatoes are "no salt added".

BTW - her scope was clean as a whistle. Which we feel is somewhat of a testament to our current diet.
__________________
I used to be disgusted.
Now I try to be amused.
  #43  
Old 05-20-2019, 10:09 AM
Dinsdale is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2000
Posts: 18,228
Quote:
Originally Posted by puzzlegal View Post
From my perspective, anything that requires advanced planning is a big deal. That's why I never use a slow cooker. (Well, also I didn't like any of the food I made in it.) And even soaked brand take q while to cook, at least, the large ones like butter beans do. One thing I love about this recipe is that I can pick up the chard on the way home from work and have a nice supper quickly.

But my broth is very low sodium, so the dish needs salt. Getting it from the canned beans and canned tomatoes just means I don't need to add any salt separately. I can see it being a problem if you also start with salty broth.
We use very little salt, but lots of other spices. And no, we don't soak beans. We either go canned, or we found a type of pre-cooked black-eyed peas in the fresh produce section that takes only 20 minutes. And we rely heavily on split peas and lentils, which don't require soaking.

Last time at the store I found frozen spinach and kale, so we toss those into most of our soups/stews. Collard greens - whatever else is available fresh.

Just amazes me that cooking like this is so easy and so (IMO) tasty (as well as cheap and good for you!) Yet I get the impression relatively few people eat that way. And the government and food industry sure don't encourage it.
__________________
I used to be disgusted.
Now I try to be amused.
  #44  
Old 05-20-2019, 11:51 AM
puzzlegal's Avatar
puzzlegal is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 4,331
Yeah, we rely heavily on lentils, canned chickpeas, and other canned beans. When my husband plans in advance, we sometimes do small white beans or black beans, but those are less commonly in our rotation, because they aren't ever an answer to, "what do you want to do for supper tonight?"

We're not explicitly trying for a low-meat or less-processed diet, we just eat a lot of legume meals because they taste good and are easy. I think all of our bean dishes are relatively salty, though, because the ones that don't rely on canned beans are based on an Indian cookbook that calls for a lot of salt, and we mostly follow the recipe.

I'm not a big fan of "add lots of spices". There are specific dishes that have specific spice profiles that I like (and some of the Indian dishes have a LOT of spice), but I'm a picky eater, and a lot of food is "over seasoned" to my tastes. If I'm eating beans I want to enjoy the beans.
  #45  
Old 05-20-2019, 02:20 PM
VOW is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: NE AZ
Posts: 2,757
Hulled barley is a dandy substitution for pasta in any dish. Not the regular pearl barley, but hulled barley, with the bran still attached. Wonderfully nutty and chewy, I love the stuff!


~VOW
__________________
Klaatu Barada Nikto
  #46  
Old 05-23-2019, 11:13 AM
Dinsdale is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2000
Posts: 18,228
Today 199.6#!

Granted, it was immediately after a hard bike ride, but I haven't been south of 200# in at least a decade. And that is with absolutely ZERO effort to limit my volume of food intake. Last night at a reception after a concert I was lowering the boom on cheese and crackers, chips and dip, and cookies - at a time that I would normally be in bed.

Gonna grill up some veggies for lunch and have them over rice. Yum!
__________________
I used to be disgusted.
Now I try to be amused.
  #47  
Old 06-21-2019, 07:44 AM
Dinsdale is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2000
Posts: 18,228
Further update - had bloodwork and an annual exam this week. In June 2017, my total cholesterol was 254. This week, 202. All other numbers and blood pressure rock solid (tho my pressure has always been good.)

Have been missing the diet a lot recently due to a vacation, and various family occasions (weddings, cookouts, vacation, etc). Not dispositive of anything, but good to see the numbers moving in a positive direction.

Already looking forward to lentil soup for dinner tonight!

Also, someone mentioned pasta upthread (maybe me?) We discovered Barilla makes a bean/lentil flour based pasta. Claims to have considerable fiber. We use it occasionally for variety.
__________________
I used to be disgusted.
Now I try to be amused.
  #48  
Old 06-22-2019, 06:29 AM
Eva Luna is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Chicago-ish, IL
Posts: 10,735
Quote:
Originally Posted by panache45 View Post
One thing to watch out for: If you're on a reduced-sodium diet, stay away from canned beans. They contain a lot of hidden sodium. It's really no big deal to soak "raw" beans overnight instead.
Or get yourself an electric pressure cooker. I love my Instant Pot! It cuts cooking time by around 2/3, and no need to presoak legumes. It isn't the optimal cooking tool for everything, but for beans and lentils, it's a thing of beauty.
  #49  
Old 06-22-2019, 06:48 AM
Mean Mr. Mustard's Avatar
Mean Mr. Mustard is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 11,015
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dinsdale View Post
...And, from what I understand, it is quite common for (fartistic expression) to lessen over time, after your body gets used to the diet. We'll see.
Care to update us on the above?

Congrats on your success.


mmm

Last edited by Mean Mr. Mustard; 06-22-2019 at 06:48 AM.
  #50  
Old 06-22-2019, 09:01 AM
puzzlegal's Avatar
puzzlegal is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 4,331
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eva Luna View Post
Or get yourself an electric pressure cooker. I love my Instant Pot! It cuts cooking time by around 2/3, and no need to presoak legumes. It isn't the optimal cooking tool for everything, but for beans and lentils, it's a thing of beauty.
Or a traditional pressure cooker. They run even hotter than the electric ones, and do a great job with beans. I don't like babysitting it, or cleaning it, so I rarely use it. But my husband makes a nice pasta fagioli and black bean soup in a traditional pressure cooker.
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:00 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@straightdope.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Copyright © 2018 STM Reader, LLC.

 
Copyright © 2017