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  #51  
Old 04-21-2020, 02:04 PM
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To copy and paste myself from a different thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Me
Trump does not have a time machine, nor does he have the power of mind control. And, I'll note, neither does Hilary Clinton. He did not jump back to the Obama Administration (2010), brainwash Barack Obama into following his commands, and start the unemployment rate on a steady decline. Likewise, she didn't lose the election, jump back a year, and brainwash Trump into hiring Paul Manafort and Carter Page.

Magic ain't real. Some things we can rule out.

And in the case of unemployment, we can also rule out the idea that Barack Obama or anyone in government is to thank for that. England, Germany, and many other nations have had a similar, extreme low unemployment rate following the Great Recession. My personal bet would be that it's an artifact of the gig economy. But, definitely, we can be certain that Barack Obama didn't fly around the world taking over the minds of Angela Merkel and David Cameron, and implement a policy that lead to wondrous unemployment across the globe.

Given that Trump has a hatred for the tech industry, and the tech industry is what brought you the gig economy, it's pretty unreasonable to thank him for it. And again, that all started from before he was in office or had the power to do diddly squat but use his position on The Apprentice to try and force women to sleep with him. He didn't do it.

Now as to things like the stock market and the continuing direction of the economy upwards, post-Obama, if there is anything to thank for those, it would be 1) cutting taxes, and 2) dumping money into the economy.

The Republicans in Congress cut taxes, that is certainly true. And they almost failed - like they actually did fail with revoking ObamaCare - at accomplishing that, because of Trump's tweets about his wall funding and various other inanities that destroyed the coalitions being built inside of Congress. Tax cuts almost didn't pass, because of Donald Trump, and that's when he had the benefit of having a Republican majority in every single branch and arm of government. I wouldn't be surprised if we got a less-extreme cut because of Trump's disruptions and that stretching out the process, so that cooler heads could push moderation into the matter.

And, I'll note, there is very little reason to think that he was the progenitor of the idea of a tax cut nor the driving force for one. Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell were ready to go, the instant a Republican president was in the White House, and they would have done the same had it been Mike Pence or John McCain who got the seat.

And as for dumping money into the economy, the White House has consistently pushed for a laughably minimalist budget. Granted, I don't believe that they had any particular expectation that it would be considered by anyone in Congress, so it was purely a vehicle for wooing some libertarian voters, but the very first budget under Trump was basically just a rubber stamp to everyone on both sides of the fence. Democrats want to give caviar to all the homeless? Great! They can do it! Republicans want to buy some robot sharks for the US military? Great! Go ahead!

The budgets under Trump have all been fairly blatant attempts to buy off the public by boosting the economy through government money.

I mean take, for example, the case of George. George decides that he wants to enjoy life, so he goes to a bank and takes out a loan for $1m. Feeling happy about this, he goes to his employer and says, "Hey, you know what, I came into some money, I don't want to hurt you guys, why don't you cut my wage by half?" For the next four years, George goes on to live a life of luxury, getting a fast car, installing a pool in his backyard, etc. Great economy!

Despite the car and the pool, the luxury dinners, is George actually in a good place, economically? Or is he just self-deluded and ignoring the future, blinded by the $1m he gave himself?

Taking out some loans and lowering taxes, to propel yourself out of a recession, is probably reasonable. If you let the economy stay in a recession, it's liable to become chronic. Doing the same, when everything is good, rather than switching around to paying down the loans and getting a better money supply, is stupid and grossly financially irresponsible.

Great for getting votes, though.



Personally, I don't like Trump because I don't want my kids to have to learn Chinese.

Let's say, for example, that McDonalds saw that Burger King was finally catching up and is liable to take over the fast food industry. So McDonalds forms this clever plan:

1) Raise their prices. Hey, if the customer is paying more money, we're making more money, and Burger King will be making less per customer!
2) Charge franchise owners for use of the corporate producers. I mean, right now they're all able to get bottom dollar on beef, flour, lettuce, etc. That's money lost to the core company, and we're the ones that got all the producers assembled and willing to go bottom dollar. We deserve our 5%!

Now, what do you think, does this great plan help or hurt in McDonald's mission to fight against the encroaching financial might of Burger King?

I don't want Trump because, for as much as he's working on the things that I might want a President to work on, there is such a thing as, "Please stop helping". Competence matters.

Add if you add incompetent to criminal and liable to pack the government with a bunch of slimeballs who are going to suck away at the might and fortunes of our government for the next few decades, I'm not seeing anything good on the horizon.

Trump took millions of dollars from his dad and created a $1.25b hole. His dad died and left him a business empire of hundreds of buildings in New York City - some of the most valuable land on the planet - and he turned it into about 7 buildings, most on cheap land in the countryside.

The man is not good at business. His dad was amazing. If you compare their wealth, baby Trump is laughably horrible and appears to have shrunk dad's business to about 1/20th of its former size.

He was, it seems, good at being a TV show host. And he is good at self-promotion and making suckers think that he's good at things.

But, personally, I look at hard numbers. And the real numbers are that the number of people taking Chinese aptitude tests has curved upwards under Trump, the bank of Mexico is seeing more money sent back from abroad than ever before, and the time until the US budget makes a sound like the last bit of Jello getting pulled through a dime-sized hole into a vacuum has moved from being something like 30 years in the future to something more like 10.

Cites available (except for the last - I'm not sure of the exact predictions, though I do know that the timeline has shrunk).
I'll also note:

https://publius2point0.wordpress.com.../11/logistics/
https://publius2point0.wordpress.com...es-of-the-day/
https://publius2point0.wordpress.com...some-minutiae/
https://publius2point0.wordpress.com...-of-the-day-8/
https://hpr1.com/index.php/feature/n...of-trumps-wall
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2020/01/28/...-cbo-says.html
https://youtu.be/_sxSGKB3Sj0
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ail-to-ukraine
https://publius2point0.wordpress.com...-of-the-day-4/
https://publius2point0.wordpress.com...te-of-the-day/
https://publius2point0.wordpress.com/2019/04/16/9-11/
https://publius2point0.wordpress.com...ed-their-boss/
https://publius2point0.wordpress.com...there-no-wall/
https://publius2point0.wordpress.com.../stephen-calk/
https://publius2point0.wordpress.com...nation-letter/
  #52  
Old 04-21-2020, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reason10 View Post
People still haven't figured out that Trump is not an ideologue. That's not how he thinks.
Many of us are painfully aware that Trump is not an ideologue; we figured that out a long time ago. While he has many prejudices, he has few real ideas. Even The Wall (that Mexico is going to pay for...any day now, I'm sure) was initially not really anything Trump actually cared about. It was just a throwaway line in a speech, but the crowd loved it, and if Trump believes in anything, it's getting a big crowd to whoop and holler and cheer his name.

Because he isn't an ideologue; he's a narcissistic demagogue. He doesn't care about ideas--I don't think he even really cares about bad ideas, although he certainly promotes many of those--he ONLY cares about himself (because that's just how narcissists are), and everyone else is just a means to an end, whether lining Trump's pockets or gratifying Trump's ego.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Reason10 View Post
Probably the reasons why Republicans believe in Trump (at least 91 percent polled) is because he is the greatest president in the history of America. He created the greatest economy of all time with ZERO Democrat help whatsoever.
Here you go folks: The Greatest Economy Of All Time! (Hint: The blue line and the numbers on the left are like a golf score: High is bad, low is good.)

Now to be fair, even under a competent POTUS, that line and that number would quite likely look pretty scary. But look at the blue line BEFORE it takes off like a Saturn V; notice that it hit a peak (a normal, mountain-type peak, not a straight vertical line) in late 2009, then started sliding gradually back down all through the presidency of Barack Obama (D), and then did continue declining for the first years of the Trump Presidency, before the Greatest Economy Of All Time! fell off a cliff.

So: NOT, actually, The Greatest Economy Of All Time! and NOT, actually, "ZERO Democrat help whatsoever".

Quote:
If you have found a source with the "shoot the hurricane" lie and you believed it, I've got some Pacific Oceanfront property in Iowa I'll be glad to sell you, real cheap. I live in Southwest Florida and was DIRECTLY in the path of this Category 5 nightmare. The president NEVER said any such thing. Most of the news we were getting anyway was from our brilliant Governor Rick Scott, but anyone claiming Trump said such an idiotic thing is a liar.
OK, to be completely fair, that one does seem to be a garbled re-telling of what was intended as a joke by some random guy from Florida.
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Ceterum censeo imperium Trumpi esse delendam
  #53  
Old 04-21-2020, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MEBuckner View Post
Maybe not.
  #54  
Old 04-21-2020, 03:46 PM
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I thought "greatest president in the history of America" was a joke post. No?
  #55  
Old 04-21-2020, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Wiggler View Post
I thought "greatest president in the history of America" was a joke post. No?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reason10 View Post
Trump voters need to get back to work and pay taxes so that Democrats can continue to get welfare checks and food stamps.
..
  #56  
Old 04-21-2020, 06:06 PM
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Many of us are painfully aware that Trump is not an ideologue; we figured that out a long time ago. While he has many prejudices, he has few real ideas.

That's true. Most of what he has done to accomplish this miracle of creating the greatest economy of all time has been by following the Reagan model. Admittedly Trump was a lot quicker on the draw and got results much faster. Trump is a genius businessman. He's in his element.


Even The Wall (that Mexico is going to pay for...any day now, I'm sure) was initially not really anything Trump actually cared about. It was just a throwaway line in a speech, but the crowd loved it, and if Trump believes in anything, it's getting a big crowd to whoop and holler and cheer his name.

With the new trade deal and new revenues coming in from Mexico, that country IS paying for the wall.



Because he isn't an ideologue; he's a narcissistic demagogue. He doesn't care about ideas--I don't think he even really cares about bad ideas, although he certainly promotes many of those--he ONLY cares about himself (because that's just how narcissists are), and everyone else is just a means to an end, whether lining Trump's pockets or gratifying Trump's ego.

What politician ISN'T an narcissistic demagogue, (other than Reagan)? And how can you say he's lining his pockets when he is WORKING FOR FREE and his company is losing MILLIONS of dollars because he can't work it?

How about the egomaniacal Obama, who totally screwed the American economy and retired, having made $70 million off his job?

So far, Trump has NOT gotten richer in this job. But show me ONE Democrat who hasn't gotten richer because of the office.

Last edited by Reason10; 04-21-2020 at 06:11 PM. Reason: some stuff hadn't been answered.
  #57  
Old 04-21-2020, 06:54 PM
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All this "miracle of creating the greatest economy of all time" talk would have been a pretty ludicrous argument a month ago. But to be making it now really kind of defies belief. At this point, it's a line of argument worthy of "Baghdad Bob". "There are no American infidels in Baghdad--Never!"

...As American tanks can be seen right behind him, merrily rampaging through the city.
  #58  
Old 04-21-2020, 06:55 PM
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Aaand it looks like the Coalition forces just captured Mohammed Saeed al-Sahhaf.
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