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Old 04-22-2020, 09:50 PM
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Flip-flop much?


Remember when one of the the worst things that you could say about a politician was that they were a “flip-flopper.”

Well, The Donald just flipped so hard, I felt it in Arizona:

Trump reverses stance, now says it is 'too soon' for Georgia to reopen
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Old 04-22-2020, 11:50 PM
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I can't think of a single time in the last 40 years that I've had anything positive to say about Donald Trump, but assuming this is accurate reporting I will defend his right to flip flop. He may be right in a way akin to the stopped clock in our living room, but he's still right.
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Old 04-23-2020, 12:12 AM
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I mean, if a president is on the wrong course..............I sure hopehe flip-flops.

Better than a president who steadily and consistently drives the nation over a cliff.
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Old 04-23-2020, 12:23 AM
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I can't think of a single time in the last 40 years that I've had anything positive to say about Donald Trump, but assuming this is accurate reporting I will defend his right to flip flop. He may be right in a way akin to the stopped clock in our living room, but he's still right.
I was going to say the same thing. He's an idiot, but I'll cut him a break on charges of inconsistency on this one. It's the right flip to flop.
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Old 04-23-2020, 02:22 AM
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I was going to say the same thing. He's an idiot, but I'll cut him a break on charges of inconsistency on this one. It's the right flip to flop.
Who will be fired for impelling him to flip? Watch for roadkill. (That's a metaphor.)
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Old 04-23-2020, 02:48 AM
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I fully expect him to tweet out something later today claiming he was misquoted and calling it FAKE NEWS! He just has to have something his strategists can quote later this year after the death rate in Georgia soars.

He will find a way to continue to signal like crazy to his supporters that the lockdowns are all the Democrat’s fault and they should be ignored.
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Old 04-23-2020, 07:55 AM
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There are so many cases of Trump flip-flopping it has become a source of endless memes. Especially those who mine his Tweets for something he said in the past which directly contradicts or indicts what he is doing now.

And yet his followers never see it somehow.
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Old 04-23-2020, 09:29 AM
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"I love those people. They're great. They've been strong, resolute, but at the same time, he must do what he thinks is right. I want him to do what he thinks is right, but I disagree with him on what he's doing but I want to let the governors do (what they want)," the President said.

It seems to me his "anti-open" stance was forced upon him by his advisors and he doesn't really believe it. He is letting the governors know they can go ahead and open but, publically, he has to oppose it.
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Old 04-23-2020, 09:46 AM
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I fully expect him to tweet out something later today claiming he was misquoted and calling it FAKE NEWS! He just has to have something his strategists can quote later this year after the death rate in Georgia soars.

He will find a way to continue to signal like crazy to his supporters that the lockdowns are all the Democrat’s fault and they should be ignored.


Yes, this isn't about sending the "right message"; it's about sending so many messages that when confronted with his failures, his supporters have a ready-made excuse to dismiss any concerns. They don't give a crap about what really happens, so long as they have a fig-leaf of a "good decision" to cover themselves with.
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Old 04-23-2020, 09:51 AM
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What this does is tell Republicans don't trust Donald to give them political cover. The Georgia governor was thinking "Yes, I know how to get the base to love me! I'll be the first to open up! Donald will sing my praises! What could go wrong?" Then he found out- he's been hung out to dry. If you do what Donald wants, you get the rug pulled out from under you. If you go against him, you get the fury of the masses egged on by tweetstorms.
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Old 04-23-2020, 10:02 AM
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MikeF quotes above, "...I want him to do what he thinks is right, but I disagree with him on what he's doing but I want to let the governors do (what they want)," the President said. So no firm stand---he can later claim he said he wanted him to do the right thing and if he'd only done that it wouldn't have gone bad. He can also claim he disagreed all along but the guy just wouldn't listen to him, so what's he supposed to do? He can also claim he let the governors choose, that the bad decision didn't really fall on him. He leaves himself an out for everything. He doesn't wait till a day or a week or a month later; it's in the same sentence. If there's a victory, he'll claim it was his leadership that brought it about. Later on, when campaign advertisements for reelection are made they can snip out the parts of the quote that they want, which will make him look prophetic.
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Old 04-23-2020, 10:05 AM
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I mean, if a president is on the wrong course..............I sure hopehe flip-flops.

Better than a president who steadily and consistently drives the nation over a cliff.
Smart people still make mistakes. The difference is that they learn from them.

As Trump has not demonstrated the ability to learn from mistakes, I assume that some of his smarter advisers sat him down and said "No Mr. President, you will lose Georgia, therefore the 2020 election, if you do this."

"Flip flop" is a bad term. Panderer should be used for people who keep changing their minds based on what their audience wants. People have said Trump always agrees with the last person he spoke with, but that's not true. It's probably more accurate to say he will agree with the last person he spoke with unless it's something he has strong feelings about, in which case he gets really stubborn. Of course, having strong feelings about a topic is not the same thing as being rational or knowledgeable about the topic, so we will continue to see problems.
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Old 04-23-2020, 10:10 AM
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What this does is tell Republicans don't trust Donald to give them political cover. The Georgia governor was thinking "Yes, I know how to get the base to love me! I'll be the first to open up! Donald will sing my praises! What could go wrong?" Then he found out- he's been hung out to dry. If you do what Donald wants, you get the rug pulled out from under you. If you go against him, you get the fury of the masses egged on by tweetstorms.
The Republican political strategy in a nutshell: "I know Trump screws everybody who supports him, but he'd never screw ME!"

As a Georgia voter, I know Kemp, and it gives me exquisite pleasure to see such a feckless Trump lackey get screwed so hard by Trump.

However, this will not teach Republicans any lessons. They do not learn lessons, they double down like sweaty desperate gamblers who just lost a lot of mob-borrowed money at the blackjack table.
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Old 04-23-2020, 10:14 AM
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And yet his followers never see it somehow.
When you have the attention span of a goldfish and lack critical thinking skills it isn't too surprising.
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Old 04-23-2020, 11:38 AM
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This isn't a "flip flop" . . . Trump is literally holding both positions at the same time. You're always a winner if you play on both teams.

It can't be a flip flop if the guy never actually abandons the initial position.
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Old 04-23-2020, 12:07 PM
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I was right yesterday.
I'm right today.
I'll be right tomorrow.

That's the greatest political slogan of all time. Why change?
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Old 04-23-2020, 03:52 PM
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This isn't a "flip flop" . . . Trump is literally holding both positions at the same time. You're always a winner if you play on both teams.

It can't be a flip flop if the guy never actually abandons the initial position.
Aye; that's how i see him: you can't be wrong if you say yes and no.
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Old 04-23-2020, 04:24 PM
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Remember when one of the the worst things that you could say about a politician was that they were a “flip-flopper.”
This drives me bananas. If someone is wrong, not only do I want them to change their mind, I want other people to see them change their mind and follow suit.

When a wrong person changes their mind and gets shit for it, other people will see that and say, "Forget that nonsense, no way am I gonna change my mind."

All the public pressure should be on wrong people to change; but when they do, as long as the change is sincere they should be lauded for it, not scolded for it.
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Old 04-23-2020, 04:30 PM
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I think a lot of people are like Zapp:
Quote:
I hate these filthy Neutrals, Kif. With enemies you know where they stand but with Neutrals, who knows? It sickens me.
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Old 04-23-2020, 06:37 PM
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The Republican political strategy in a nutshell: "I know Trump screws everybody who supports him, but he'd never screw ME!"
"Why is the leopard eating my face?!"
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Old 04-23-2020, 06:51 PM
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When faced with accusations of flip-flopping, Keynes has been attributed with saying something like "When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do?"

But I hardly see how you can apply this virtuous position to Trump, since nothing he says or does is based on facts. Inconsistent self-contradictory rambling based on what he thinks will sound impressive and popular is not the same thing as flip-flopping between two well reasoned positions.
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Old 04-23-2020, 10:34 PM
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The Republican political strategy in a nutshell: "I know Trump screws everybody who supports him, but he'd never screw ME!"

As a Georgia voter, I know Kemp, and it gives me exquisite pleasure to see such a feckless Trump lackey get screwed so hard by Trump.
By November, will most Georgia worshipers of Trimp the Chimp even remember this, or that everything he touches dies? Won't new flows of bullshit distract their attention?

Quote:
However, this will not teach Republicans any lessons. They do not learn lessons, they double down like sweaty desperate gamblers who just lost a lot of mob-borrowed money at the blackjack table.
The lesson learned is "Never Give A Inch!"(*) Retreat means defeat. Only luzers admit error. Always attack, never apologize. Drive on!

* Never Give A Inch [sic] is the retitled film from Ken Kesey's novel Sometime A Great Notion about a strike-breaking Oregon logging family. After a falling tree severs Henry Fonda's arm, Paul Newman nails it to his boat's mast with forefinger upright, telling the unionized** community to Fuck Off. That's Trimp the Chimp's way.

** How many syllables in the word "unionized"?
Chemist: 4
Non-chemist: 3
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Old 04-23-2020, 11:05 PM
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** How many syllables in the word "unionized"?
Chemist: 4
Non-chemist: 3
A good trivia question - what's are the two opposites of "unionized"?
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Old 04-24-2020, 08:48 AM
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This drives me bananas. If someone is wrong, not only do I want them to change their mind, I want other people to see them change their mind and follow suit.

When a wrong person changes their mind and gets shit for it, other people will see that and say, "Forget that nonsense, no way am I gonna change my mind."

All the public pressure should be on wrong people to change; but when they do, as long as the change is sincere they should be lauded for it, not scolded for it.
Ditto.

It's a perfect example of a catchy phrase obfuscating what's really important.

Being able to develop, evolve, and change positions based on knowledge and experience is good. Constantly or dramatically changing one's position in order to garner votes or to be more well-liked is bad. Taking a new position while pretending it's not a new position so you don't loose the people who disagree with your new position is bad.
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Old 04-24-2020, 10:26 AM
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A good trivia question - what's are the two opposites of "unionized"?
Ionized and at-risk?
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Old 04-24-2020, 11:32 AM
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A good trivia question - what's are the two opposites of "unionized"?
An even better question: do you say "a unionized ______" or "an unionized _______". I wish I could find a single word to fit in the blank.

BTW, these questions cannot be spoken aloud.
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Old 04-24-2020, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AHunter3
I can't think of a single time in the last 40 years that I've had anything positive to say about Donald Trump, but assuming this is accurate reporting I will defend his right to flip flop. He may be right in a way akin to the stopped clock in our living room, but he's still right.
I was going to say the same thing. He's an idiot, but I'll cut him a break on charges of inconsistency on this one. It's the right flip to flop.

Subsequent to the advice about the potential efficacy of mainlining Clorox, I'm removing any residual iota of credit to him on the flip flop. Totally stopped-clock accidental correctness.

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