Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #801  
Old 05-04-2020, 05:12 PM
dalej42 is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 16,482
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unreconstructed Man View Post
Yeah and, um, how’d that work out for you the first time?
You got to gloat for 4 years and be smug about helping Trump win.

Bernie still lost in 2016 and 2020.
__________________
Twitter:@Stardales IG:@Dalej42 He/Him/His
  #802  
Old 05-04-2020, 05:17 PM
Organism is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalej42 View Post
You got to gloat for 4 years and be smug about helping Trump win.

Bernie still lost in 2016 and 2020.
This is exactly the way someone who has no actual politics thinks about "politics."

Consider sports.
  #803  
Old 05-04-2020, 05:18 PM
QuickSilver's Avatar
QuickSilver is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 21,293
Quote:
Originally Posted by Organism View Post
Do you disagree with any part of this? If so, which ("dictatorship" being an obvious Huge Hilarious Exaggeration and "proletariat" being conspicuously misspelled aside)?

If so, do you find it funny?

If so, is it the endless distant war on the poorest people on the planet that tickles you or is it the total lack of social mobility that people in your own country experience?
What tickles me is that I simply gathered a bunch of loosely associated words that bunched together in a sentence look like they mean something, but actually I just tried to make the grammar work as best as context would allow.

But this actually made sense to you?

I find that funny.

On a serious note: Do you realize that you're not actually engaging with anything anybody is saying to you? And is that intentional or is that just your normal way of communicating?
__________________
St. QuickSilver: Patron Saint of Thermometers.
  #804  
Old 05-04-2020, 05:19 PM
dalej42 is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 16,482
Quote:
Originally Posted by Organism View Post
This is exactly the way someone who has no actual politics thinks about "politics."

Consider sports.
Winning elections is kinda cool, you get the chance to put your policies into law.

I know, it’s not like hanging out with the cool kids in the coffeehouse.
__________________
Twitter:@Stardales IG:@Dalej42 He/Him/His
  #805  
Old 05-04-2020, 05:27 PM
Unreconstructed Man is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 686
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalej42 View Post
You got to gloat for 4 years and be smug about helping Trump win.

Bernie still lost in 2016 and 2020.
That’s a profoundly stupid comment. Firstly, it has nothing to do with what I wrote, and nothing to do with the comment I was responding to. You’re like Donnie in The Big Lebowski, wandering into someone else’s conversation halfway through. You’re out of your element.

Secondly, I’m not American. Therefore, nothing I said or did back in 2016 “helped Trump win”. But that’s the kind of stupid mistake you make when you blunder into a thread without looking, without thinking, and without understanding who you’re talking to.

Thirdly, the whole point of my post, the one you’re ostensibly but ineptly responding to, is that it doesn’t make sense to say, as Kent Clark did, that “Hillary beat Bernie! Nyah, nyah!” because Hillary then went and got her ass handed to her by Trump. That’s the only point I was making, yet you still managed to quite comprehensively miss it.

Last edited by Unreconstructed Man; 05-04-2020 at 05:29 PM.
  #806  
Old 05-04-2020, 05:31 PM
Organism is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuickSilver View Post
What tickles me is that I simply gathered a bunch of loosely associated words that bunched together in a sentence look like they mean something, but actually I just tried to make the grammar work as best as context would allow.

But this actually made sense to you?

I find that funny.

On a serious note: Do you realize that you're not actually engaging with anything anybody is saying to you? And is that intentional or is that just your normal way of communicating?
Real kneeslapper. toTaLLy rAnDoM

You managed to make about 70% of it accurate and then backed off of it. Hope the comforts of the end stage United States have been good for you. It's all over.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dalej42 View Post
Winning elections is kinda cool, you get the chance to put your policies into law.

I know, it’s not like hanging out with the cool kids in the coffeehouse.
Actually what you do if you're a Democrat is mostly not win elections, and then when you do you make sure that you hamstring yourself with adherence to rules and norms that no one else gives a flying fuck about, because you're apparently some kind of born loser who has no will to enact meaningful change.

It might have something to do with your party being owned by corporations and unaccountable dark money. Hard to tell!

Keep banging that "I haven't been outside in decades" drum, though, it goes well with starting threads about your parents paying for your college education. Couldn't be more on brand. Beyond parody.
  #807  
Old 05-04-2020, 05:32 PM
Organism is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 100
Just wish we could go back to the way things used to be, when we could Get Things Done in this country, like Merrick Garland recess appointments.
  #808  
Old 05-04-2020, 05:35 PM
Organism is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 100
Thank god Obama closed Guantanamo Bay and rammed through universal healthcare. That's the kind of leadership we need again.
  #809  
Old 05-04-2020, 05:42 PM
Kent Clark's Avatar
Kent Clark is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Posts: 28,032
Quote:
Originally Posted by Organism View Post
The fact remains that Candidate #1 was a historical disaster that could have been avoided and Candidate #2 stands for absolutely nothing. Being prideful about it seems misguided but you do you. "At least I'm not dumb, like a Republican!"
Okay, let's cut the sarcastic ripostes and get to the heart of the matter.

Bernie Sanders has been advocating democratic socialism his entire career. His ideas have gotten nowhere, neither in the House, nor the Senate. He went national with his ideas in 2016. His supporters predicated a massive wave of new voters would come out of the woodwork and propel him to the nomination. Instead, he lost to "a historical disaster" of a candidate. In exchange for his support of that candidate, the Democratic Party enacted procedural changes that would make it easier for a candidate like Sanders in the future.

In 2020 Sanders again ran, this time under the new rules that should have helped him. Again, he failed to attract the supposed massive wave of new voters, and in fact, lost states he had carried in 2016, this time to a candidate who "stands for absolutely nothing."

Organism, I submit to you that either a) democratic socialism is an idea so unpopular that any candidate who runs on that platform will not even receive 30% of the national popular vote (we'll skip right past the electoral vote right now) or b) Bernie Sanders is an even MORE flawed political leader than Hillary Clinton or Joe Biden, and unable to attract support in Congress or with voters in spite of the superiority of his ideas.

Being prideful about it seems misguided but you do you.
  #810  
Old 05-04-2020, 05:44 PM
Organism is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 100
I haven't even mentioned Bernie Sanders.

Your candidate stands for nothing.

Try harder. Literally.
  #811  
Old 05-04-2020, 05:45 PM
Jophiel's Avatar
Jophiel is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Chicago suburbia
Posts: 20,035
Quote:
Originally Posted by Organism View Post
Does it feel good to discuss something like a rape allegation...
Is that what we're doing? At this point it just seems like stream-of-consciousness rage yelling about Sanders losing.
  #812  
Old 05-04-2020, 05:50 PM
Organism is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 100
The fact that Bernie Sanders is only available avatar of anything resembling a theory of political power that any of you are able to latch onto says more about the degraded landscape of political opportunity in the United States than anything else.

Again: I haven't mentioned him.

Joe Biden is a bought-and-paid-for political hack from credit card-world whose voting record is astonishingly shitty.

He is old as hell and presents poorly on television.

Even in the ways he is supposed to be "different from Trump" he fails at being convincing on the most basic level.

If for some reason you have a vested interest in rooting for life's winners to keep losing in questionably valid contests, then things are going swimmingly for you.

If you might prefer to be able to see a doctor or experience social mobility at some point (or for probably a lot of you: if you'd like your kids to experience any of these things, or if you'd like for them not to be raising their own children in an environment that looks like your own childhood imagination of Hell) it's time to reevaluate your priorities.
  #813  
Old 05-04-2020, 05:52 PM
bobot's Avatar
bobot is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Chicago-ish
Posts: 10,048
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unreconstructed Man View Post
...

Thirdly, the whole point of my post, the one you’re ostensibly but ineptly responding to, is that it doesn’t make sense to say, as Kent Clark did, that “Hillary beat Bernie! Nyah, nyah!” because Hillary then went and got her ass handed to her by Trump. ...
That's a dumb fucking way of saying it. She got more votes than he did. A lot more votes. She lost due to electoral votes, hardly getting her ass handed to her. That's just a fucking stupid thing to say.
  #814  
Old 05-04-2020, 05:54 PM
Jophiel's Avatar
Jophiel is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Chicago suburbia
Posts: 20,035
So we're doing the rage yelling thing.
  #815  
Old 05-04-2020, 05:54 PM
Organism is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 100
Then act to change the system that perpetuates GOP dominance and stop running loser ass candidates who are immune to structural reform in rigged contests that they're going to lose.

You've had at least 20 years worth of evidence that this shit doesn't work.
  #816  
Old 05-04-2020, 05:56 PM
Organism is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 100
No I think mostly "we" are doing the smarmy "adults in the room" thing, with a side of unearned sarcasm.

Speaking of which: KEEP GOING, IT'S AN ACT THAT'S GONE REALLY WELL ELECTORALLY. PEOPLE LOVE TO BE CONDESCENDED TO BY MANAGERIAL TYPES. IT'S A HUGE DRAW.
  #817  
Old 05-04-2020, 06:07 PM
Unreconstructed Man is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 686
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobot View Post
That's a dumb fucking way of saying it. She got more votes than he did. A lot more votes. She lost due to electoral votes, hardly getting her ass handed to her. That's just a fucking stupid thing to say.
Nope. Your post is horseshit. She was running against a rapey, half-retarded game show host with zero experience and no workable policy ideas who campaigned on a shoestring budget and said three things every week that would’ve torpedoed anyone else’s candidacy. He called Mexicans rapists, he bragged about grabbing women by the pussy, he made fun of dead soldiers and war veterans and disabled reporters, and he lied with every breath that he could muster. Not only that, but Hillary had the advantages of experience, party incumbency, and a strong economy bequeathed to her by her predecessor. And she still fucking lost. She should have demolished Trump. It should have been a nationwide rout. She should have sunk the Republican Party for the next 20 years. And most other candidates would have.

Instead, she won the popular vote, but lost the Electoral College. Whoop-do-fuckin-doo. Well done, Hillary. Gold star for you. Your California ground game was second to none. Pity it didn’t count for anything according to the rules the election was actually governed by.

Get it straight: Losing the EC to a candidate as amateurish, incompetent, offensive, stupid, and morally repugnant as Trump by any margin at all is just sick-makingly disastrous, even if you manage to win the irrelevant popular vote. Hillary lost the most winnable election in living memory. She got her ass handed to her by a fucking child.

Last edited by Unreconstructed Man; 05-04-2020 at 06:08 PM.
  #818  
Old 05-04-2020, 06:20 PM
xenophon41's Avatar
xenophon41 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Somewhere up country.
Posts: 5,146
The other day our elderly dog pooped on the floor downstairs. While we had the Roomba working and we were painting a fence outside. The artwork on our vinyl floors afterward reminds me of what this thread has now become.
  #819  
Old 05-04-2020, 06:33 PM
bobot's Avatar
bobot is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Chicago-ish
Posts: 10,048
That dog handed your floor its ass!
  #820  
Old 05-04-2020, 06:40 PM
crowmanyclouds's Avatar
crowmanyclouds is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: ... hiding in my room ...
Posts: 5,087
I'm seeing a whole lot of why the current Democratic candidate sucks . . . but nothing about who the candidate that should be supported is, curious.

I oppose smoking . . . ignore that I'm a Chewlies Gum salesman.

CMC fnord!
  #821  
Old 05-04-2020, 07:13 PM
Kent Clark's Avatar
Kent Clark is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Posts: 28,032
Quote:
Originally Posted by Organism View Post
I haven't even mentioned Bernie Sanders.

Your candidate stands for nothing.

Try harder. Literally.
So you favor no candidate, no party, no platform?

With nothing or no one to support, your views stand for nothing.
  #822  
Old 05-04-2020, 07:15 PM
QuickSilver's Avatar
QuickSilver is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 21,293
Quote:
Originally Posted by Organism View Post
You managed to make about 70% of it accurate and then backed off of it.
Isn't that what all the book reviews said about Das Kapital?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Organism View Post
Hope the comforts of the end stage United States have been good for you. It's all over.
Eh, I broke even. Tell you what I think would be good. It would be good for clever young idealists like you to spend some time living in the type of utopia you idolize. And when it's all over, you can tell us how it worked out for you. Until then, don't lecture your betters in whose shoes you're not fit to walk a single step.
__________________
St. QuickSilver: Patron Saint of Thermometers.
  #823  
Old 05-04-2020, 07:20 PM
Sherrerd's Avatar
Sherrerd is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 7,895
Quote:
Originally Posted by crowmanyclouds View Post
I'm seeing a whole lot of why the current Democratic candidate sucks . . . but nothing about who the candidate that should be supported is, curious.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jophiel View Post
Is that what we're doing? At this point it just seems like stream-of-consciousness rage yelling about Sanders losing.
ARE those posts about Sanders losing?

I'm not seeing any advocacy for Sanders in any of this. There's an assumption that someone trashing Biden must be from the Sanders camp, but there's not much evidence that that's the case.

What we're being treated to in this thread is this not-unfamiliar dynamic:

Quote:
[Several account-writers]: Biden will do fine and will appoint good people and he's our best chance to oust Trump, so I support Biden.

[Rejoinder from a couple-or-three other accounts]: Then you are supporting a [noxious insult 1] [noxious insult 2] [noxious insult 3] candidate and the entire system is corrupt and disgusting and you have some pretty serious personal problems if you support it by voting and you are too stupid to realize it and [longer set of personal insults] and [sarcastic new insult] and how can you participate in this profane and sordid system of corporations and how can you be so [just-this-side-of-obscene insult]......

[Several account-writers]: Here is a list of why I am supporting Biden, and here is a list of rejoinders to various insults and accusations about Biden.

[Rejoinder from a couple-or-three other accounts]: Only [sordid personal insult] people could believe that stuff. Something is wrong with you people. The American system is [stomach-churning description] and your post shows you are a complete patsy for participating in it; congratulations.
Rinse and repeat.


Have a look at the posts; look at how much effort has gone into characterizing participation in the US system of voting as being something shameful.

Look at the way those who persist in arguing for voting for Biden are, just as persistently, insulted. Not in a way that will bring down moderation--but just close enough.

The enterprise we're witnessing in this thread is not about getting people to call the DNC and demand that Biden be dumped and Bernie be given the nomination. The goal here is to make voting (and any associated activity such as canvassing) filthy-by-association. The goal is that when a participant in the thread thinks of voting, a sense of dread and unease and nausea and disgust will come over them---and they won't vote.

There's no advocacy for Bernie going on, here. This is about getting Americans to turn away from voting.
  #824  
Old 05-04-2020, 07:24 PM
Jonathan Chance is online now
Domo Arigato Mister Moderato
Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: On the run with Kilroy
Posts: 23,682

The Moderator Speaks


All right, you guys fully derailed this with the Bernie stuff. I'm closing it. Open another tomorrow if you want - not before - and stick to the topic.
Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:27 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@straightdope.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Copyright © 2019 STM Reader, LLC.

 
Copyright © 2017