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Old 05-06-2020, 01:25 PM
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What possible relevance could the 25th amendment have to Tyler's succession from Harrison's death?

The original Constitution, as was in force at the time of William Henry Harrison's death, said that the Vice President would act as President in the event of the President's death. Tyler is universally accepted to have been the President, completely and without reservation. This is precedent that the phrasing "act as President" means that the person in question becomes President.
  #52  
Old 05-06-2020, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by UltraVires View Post
You are quoting the Constitution as it existed prior to the 25th Amendment which provides for an appointment of a VP and its language that a VP becomes President.
Yes, of course I was because I was responding to Northern Piper who quoted that section.

I must have been aware that that clause had been superseded because I went on to say:
Quote:
That was why the PSA and the 25th Amendment tried to clarify the matter, although they seem to have mostly muddied the waters.
How is that confusing?
  #53  
Old 05-07-2020, 09:39 AM
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I think it a pretty clear distinction that we don't apply the Tyler Precedent here. The "same shall devolve" language, quoted above for the VP was ambiguous and was debated by the early politicians. What did "same" refer to, the office or the powers? Tyler and the 25th Amendment solved that WRT the VP, however, the language is clear in the original Constitution and the 1947 Act that all downline officers only "act" as president.
Stated above: The VP has never been considered an "Acting President" although prior to Tyler some argued that he should be considered one. However it is indisputable now, due both to the Tyler precedent and the 25th Amendment, that the Vice President becomes the full president whereas the Speaker and any downline officers only "act" as president.
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Old 05-07-2020, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Exapno Mapcase View Post
Yes, of course I was because I was responding to Northern Piper who quoted that section.

I must have been aware that that clause had been superseded because I went on to say:


How is that confusing?
Because you argued that as the Prez and VP were dead then their disability could not be removed and cited the original Constitution. The 25th Amendment provides a mechanism for appointing a new VP, thereby removing any disability, and making what you cited no longer a complete statement of the current law.
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Old 05-07-2020, 09:49 AM
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Sorry for the triple post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by 25th Amendment, Section 3
Whenever the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that he is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, and until he transmits to them a written declaration to the contrary, such powers and duties shall be discharged by the Vice President as Acting President.
When Bush underwent his colonoscopy and handed power over to Cheney for several hours, do you contend that he became President of the United States?

If not, why should Pelosi be considered the President of the United States instead of Acting President under the circumstances discussed in this thread?
  #56  
Old 05-07-2020, 10:45 AM
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Death is different from disability.
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Old 05-07-2020, 06:19 PM
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Death is different from disability.
Right, in the same way that President is different from Acting President. Also in the same way that the office of Vice President of the United States is not "Mike Pence."
  #58  
Old 05-07-2020, 07:18 PM
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Originally Posted by UltraVires View Post
Stated above: The VP has never been considered an "Acting President" although prior to Tyler some argued that he should be considered one. However it is indisputable now, due both to the Tyler precedent and the 25th Amendment, that the Vice President becomes the full president whereas the Speaker and any downline officers only "act" as president.
Even before Tyler, there was understood to be a difference: If a vice president succeeded, they were expected to serve out the whole term. If someone else succeeded, that was seen as a temporary situation that needed a faster resolution, so there would have been an early presidential election, for a brand new four year term. The early election provisions were done away with in 1886, when someone realized that having presidential terms out of sync with congressional terms would be inconvenient, but the idea briefly came back in 1974 when there was a slim possibility that Carl Albert would have to act as president.

Last edited by Lord Feldon; 05-07-2020 at 07:22 PM.
  #59  
Old 05-24-2020, 07:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Northern Piper View Post
...When Lincoln was thinking he would be defeated in the 1864 election he didnít think it appropriate to stay on until March in the middle of a war. He considered the idea that if McClellan won, Lincoln would ask Seward to resign as Secretary of State, Lincoln would appoint McClellan as SecState, VP Hamlin would resign, then Lincoln would resign, and under the Presidential succession law at that time, McClellan would become acting President until his own term started.

Then Sherman took Atlanta and Lincoln didnít have to think about this plan again.
Gotta ask for a cite. I think you may be misremembering Lincoln's Blind Memorandum: https://www.friendsofthelincolncolle...llen-c-guelzo/
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