Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-03-2020, 05:34 PM
Maserschmidt's Avatar
Maserschmidt is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: New England
Posts: 6,017

Are there political yard signs in countries other than the US?


My son is getting a political science minor, and he asked me that question. I've never seen one in Germany, but haven't driven enough in other countries to have a grounded opinion.
  #2  
Old 05-03-2020, 06:13 PM
DrDeth is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: San Jose
Posts: 44,750
All over the place in Mexico- yards, fences, overpasses- everywhere.

I was told that is so in most South of the Border nations, but I cant speak to that directly.
  #3  
Old 05-03-2020, 06:19 PM
dalej42 is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 16,469
In Canada, yes.

I was in the U.K. in May of 2016, a month before the EU referendum. Saw no signs or even buttons and probably would have noticed them.
__________________
Twitter:@Stardales IG:@Dalej42 He/Him/His
  #4  
Old 05-03-2020, 06:20 PM
dalej42 is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 16,469
In Canada, yes.

I was in the U.K. in May of 2016, a month before the EU referendum. Saw no signs or even buttons and probably would have noticed them.
__________________
Twitter:@Stardales IG:@Dalej42 He/Him/His
  #5  
Old 05-03-2020, 06:41 PM
Boycott is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 607
When I lived in England I don't recall seeing signs. People over there are very discreet, many are apolitical and those who are political don't like to draw attention. The shy-tory became infamous in 1992 when political polls got the outcome of the election wrong (predicted a hung parliament or narrow Labour win, actual outcome was incumbent PM John Major and the tories getting the most votes in British history).
  #6  
Old 05-03-2020, 07:27 PM
dalej42 is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 16,469
In Canada, yes.

I was in the U.K. in May of 2016, a month before the EU referendum. Saw no signs or even buttons and probably would have noticed them.
__________________
Twitter:@Stardales IG:@Dalej42 He/Him/His
  #7  
Old 05-03-2020, 09:05 PM
Aspidistra is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 6,364
In my neighborhood they tend to be fence signs (front fences are the norm)

But yes, candidates hand them out like lollies at election time. My street tends to have a couple of dozen - the area is a bit of a Greens versus Labor battleground. And people closer in to the city, in terrace houses, will often put up window posters

Melbourne, Oz
  #8  
Old 05-03-2020, 09:10 PM
Siam Sam is offline
Elephant Whisperer
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Posts: 42,019
In Thailand, oh hell yes. Not just yards, but stuck to every conceivable surface. They start becoming a real road hazard for drivers, as they pile up to the extent that they obscure the driver's vision of road conditions.
__________________
"Hell is other people." -- Jean-Paul Sartre
  #9  
Old 05-03-2020, 11:17 PM
harmonicamoon is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Yucatan, Mexico
Posts: 3,339
In my area of Mexico we don't have paper mills, and wood is expensive.

The political parties will pay a homeowner for space to paint a sign. Renting a wall or side of a house in order to get the name of the party and candidates in the view. Some maybe 10 meters wide. It appears that the homeowner is supporting the candidate. But the reality is they are doing it for the rent money.

The problem is it will be visible until the next election.
  #10  
Old 05-03-2020, 11:28 PM
sisu is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: oi, oi, oi
Posts: 2,363
In Australia no, we generally keep our political allegiance to ourselves. Seems to work pretty well for the most part.
__________________
My opinions may or may not reflect the truth.........
  #11  
Old 05-04-2020, 12:08 AM
PatrickLondon is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: London
Posts: 3,947
It used to be common practice in the UK to ask supporters (whether already known members/supporters or those discovered while canvassing) to put a poster in their window, and to design at least one leaflet so that one face of it could serve as a display poster. Most of us don't live in houses set so far back from the road that a yard sign would make sense, but in some places with big front gardens you might see a free-standing sign. Also there are planning rules restricting the size of advertising placards that can be displayed without planning permission.

But for decades now there's been a decline in doorstep canvassing and parties maintaining records on individual voting intentions. Parties put so much more effort into general media campaigning and now of course so much has shifted to social media. Plus, people are in general less keen on advertising their allegiances on the place where they live.
  #12  
Old 05-04-2020, 12:21 AM
DrDeth is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: San Jose
Posts: 44,750
Quote:
Originally Posted by sisu View Post
In Australia no, we generally keep our political allegiance to ourselves. Seems to work pretty well for the most part.
Two posts above, a poster in Melbourne disagrees.
  #13  
Old 05-04-2020, 12:32 AM
D'Anconia is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,998
Quote:
Originally Posted by sisu View Post
In Australia no, we generally keep our political allegiance to ourselves. Seems to work pretty well for the most part.
They don't?

https://youthjournalism.org/after-a-...lection-looms/
  #14  
Old 05-04-2020, 01:22 AM
UDS is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 9,215
Quote:
Originally Posted by D'Anconia View Post
The signs illustrated are not erected in anybody's front yard - not least because nobody erects signs for three competing parties in his own front yard. These are signs erected in a public place (specifically; on the fencing around a busstop) by party workers.

FWIW, my observation is that householders displaying party signs on their own property is uncommon, but it does happen.

Last edited by UDS; 05-04-2020 at 01:24 AM.
  #15  
Old 05-04-2020, 01:23 AM
Aspidistra is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 6,364
Quote:
Originally Posted by D'Anconia View Post
Those actually aren't front yard signs - they're on the public street, not anybody's property.

sisu may live in a safe seat
  #16  
Old 05-04-2020, 02:06 AM
Dead Cat is offline
I was curious...
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 4,615
In my area of the UK (south west) I'd say it's common to see small signs/posters for the local candidate/party in people's front windows/gardens around election time - although only a minority of the population will do it.
  #17  
Old 05-04-2020, 03:38 AM
Cugel is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Canberra
Posts: 896
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aspidistra View Post
Those actually aren't front yard signs - they're on the public street, not anybody's property.
Signathon in Canberra, few on private property though. Took 'em while to go and collect them after that election, which furrowed some brows.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-09-...-signs/7885852
  #18  
Old 05-04-2020, 04:35 AM
Alessan's Avatar
Alessan is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Tel Aviv
Posts: 25,511
People in Israel generally don't have front yards, but they definitely hang political signs and banners from windows.
  #19  
Old 05-04-2020, 05:12 AM
SanVito is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Bristol, UK
Posts: 5,123
Quote:
Originally Posted by PatrickLondon View Post
It used to be common practice in the UK to ask supporters (whether already known members/supporters or those discovered while canvassing) to put a poster in their window, and to design at least one leaflet so that one face of it could serve as a display poster. Most of us don't live in houses set so far back from the road that a yard sign would make sense, but in some places with big front gardens you might see a free-standing sign. Also there are planning rules restricting the size of advertising placards that can be displayed without planning permission.

But for decades now there's been a decline in doorstep canvassing and parties maintaining records on individual voting intentions. Parties put so much more effort into general media campaigning and now of course so much has shifted to social media. Plus, people are in general less keen on advertising their allegiances on the place where they live.
I think it depends on where you live. I live in a pretty politically active place, where it's common to see posters in windows. If you're a paid up member of a political party, you'll often get sent the posters in the post. Actual 'yard signs' on a stick, though, not so much. Though it does happen.

As an aside, car bumper stickers aren't a thing here though. I think people value their car paintwork more than their politics.
  #20  
Old 05-04-2020, 10:04 AM
filmstar-en is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 980
In London you see little posters in windows at election time, but not for long. The UK election process is over in a few weeks it is not the marathon that they have in the US.

You do see such displays in Northern Ireland, often a big UK flag or an Irish Tricolour. Then there are the wall murals that mark out the fiercely sectarian areas.

For anyone studying political science Northern Ireland is certainly worth a visit.
  #21  
Old 05-04-2020, 11:43 AM
Uniqueorn is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 645
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalej42 View Post
In Canada, yes.

I was in the U.K. in May of 2016, a month before the EU referendum. Saw no signs or even buttons and probably would have noticed them.
Where I live (Yorkshire), there were many signs in windows before the referendum, but they were so one-sided that you could have been forgiven for thinking that they were in response to someone saying: "Put a sign in your window if you are intelligent!".

For general elections, I see quite a few signs mentioning "Vote for" for 3-4 different parties, but mostly when driving through villages.
  #22  
Old 05-04-2020, 06:07 PM
Maserschmidt's Avatar
Maserschmidt is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: New England
Posts: 6,017
We enjoyed all the responses to this, thanks!
  #23  
Old 05-04-2020, 06:52 PM
dalej42 is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 16,469
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uniqueorn View Post
Where I live (Yorkshire), there were many signs in windows before the referendum, but they were so one-sided that you could have been forgiven for thinking that they were in response to someone saying: "Put a sign in your window if you are intelligent!".

For general elections, I see quite a few signs mentioning "Vote for" for 3-4 different parties, but mostly when driving through villages.
And I have to remember that when I’m in the U.K., I’m mostly in city centres and near tourist attractions, so I’m not seeing as much of the residential areas.
__________________
Twitter:@Stardales IG:@Dalej42 He/Him/His
  #24  
Old 05-05-2020, 10:35 PM
Northern Piper is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: At home, hunkered.
Posts: 31,050
I've heard repeated rumours that there are lawn signs in some areas of Canada.
__________________
My great-grandparents came through emigrating to a new country.
My grandparents came through the Great War and the Great Depression.
My parents came through the Great Depression and World War II.
We will come through this pandemic. Hang on tight to the ones you love.
  #25  
Old 05-06-2020, 09:26 AM
RickJay is offline
Charter Jays Fan
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Oakville, Canada
Posts: 43,052
It's a Canadian thing.

Federal and provincial elections in Canada aren't necessarily on set dates; the ruling party can call one at any time. When this happens, the speed with which lawn signs are erected is kind of amazing. One day they're not there, and the next they're everywhere.

You get political lawn signs all the time too, for local issues.
__________________
Providing useless posts since 1999!
  #26  
Old 05-06-2020, 09:40 AM
hogarth is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Toronto
Posts: 7,655
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern Piper View Post
I've heard repeated rumours that there are lawn signs in some areas of Canada.
I still have a Ken Dryden sign in my basement somewhere. I've heard that he used to be some kind of sports player in a previous career.
  #27  
Old 05-06-2020, 10:48 PM
dalej42 is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 16,469
I’ve just started playing the game GeoGuessr where you try to figure where you are based on nothing but Google Street views. You’re deposited at a random place on the planet and try to guess where you are by interpreting signs, cars, topography, housing, etc. It’s interesting to see how many times I see areas flooded with political advertising. Thankfully, knowing world politics, they often help me with identifying where I am.
__________________
Twitter:@Stardales IG:@Dalej42 He/Him/His
  #28  
Old 05-06-2020, 11:13 PM
installLSC is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Tacoma, WA
Posts: 2,802
Quote:
Originally Posted by RickJay View Post
It's a Canadian thing.

Federal and provincial elections in Canada aren't necessarily on set dates; the ruling party can call one at any time. When this happens, the speed with which lawn signs are erected is kind of amazing. One day they're not there, and the next they're everywhere.

You get political lawn signs all the time too, for local issues.
I quickly googled "canadian campaign signs" and I noticed almost all the signs were local candidates, not the national party leaders. Do Trudeau, Scheer, and the others get their own signs? And if they don't, why?
  #29  
Old 05-06-2020, 11:16 PM
DrDeth is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: San Jose
Posts: 44,750
Quote:
Originally Posted by installLSC View Post
I quickly googled "canadian campaign signs" and I noticed almost all the signs were local candidates, not the national party leaders. Do Trudeau, Scheer, and the others get their own signs? And if they don't, why?
Its a parliamentary system. His party wins then elects him.
  #30  
Old 05-06-2020, 11:17 PM
dalej42 is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 16,469
Quote:
Originally Posted by installLSC View Post
I quickly googled "canadian campaign signs" and I noticed almost all the signs were local candidates, not the national party leaders. Do Trudeau, Scheer, and the others get their own signs? And if they don't, why?
They only run in their own constituency, it would be like seeing a Nancy Pelosi sign in Alaska or Alabama. The parties in Canada elect their leader and s/he becomes prime minister once that party controls the House of Commons.
__________________
Twitter:@Stardales IG:@Dalej42 He/Him/His
  #31  
Old 05-06-2020, 11:27 PM
Northern Piper is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: At home, hunkered.
Posts: 31,050
Lawn signs are pretty small and are more to get the local candidate’s name out there.

The party leader tends to get his name on billboards and tv ads.

We’re in the run-up to a provincial election, and there’s lots of billboards with the current Premier, plus some showing him with the local candidate in a riding.

The ones of the Premier alone are all over the province in the bigger centres, along highways, and so on. The ones with the Premier and a candidate are usually just in that candidate’s riding.
__________________
My great-grandparents came through emigrating to a new country.
My grandparents came through the Great War and the Great Depression.
My parents came through the Great Depression and World War II.
We will come through this pandemic. Hang on tight to the ones you love.

Last edited by Northern Piper; 05-06-2020 at 11:28 PM.
  #32  
Old 05-06-2020, 11:31 PM
Northern Piper is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: At home, hunkered.
Posts: 31,050
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDeth View Post
Its a parliamentary system. His party wins then elects him.
Eh? They’re already leaders of their parties, usually elected long before the general election.
__________________
My great-grandparents came through emigrating to a new country.
My grandparents came through the Great War and the Great Depression.
My parents came through the Great Depression and World War II.
We will come through this pandemic. Hang on tight to the ones you love.
  #33  
Old 05-06-2020, 11:51 PM
DrDeth is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: San Jose
Posts: 44,750
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern Piper View Post
Eh? They’re already leaders of their parties, usually elected long before the general election.
So, what is your point? If Trudeau's party , the Liberal Party, doesnt win, is Trudeau PM? Nope. Well, maybe if the election is so close neither party wins.

And the party can choose another. They dont have to have a popular vote to do that.

In theory, of course, the Canadian PM is appointed by the governor general on behalf of the monarch.
  #34  
Old 05-07-2020, 01:01 AM
Colibri's Avatar
Colibri is offline
SD Curator of Critters
Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Panama
Posts: 45,512
In Panama there are signs, banners, flags, and bunting in party colors literally everywhere for months before the election, which is held every five years. It looks like the circus has come to town.
  #35  
Old 05-07-2020, 04:47 AM
wolfpup's Avatar
wolfpup is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 11,731
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern Piper View Post
I've heard repeated rumours that there are lawn signs in some areas of Canada.
I've heard that rumour too!
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDeth View Post
So, what is your point? If Trudeau's party , the Liberal Party, doesnt win, is Trudeau PM? Nope. Well, maybe if the election is so close neither party wins.

And the party can choose another. They dont have to have a popular vote to do that.

In theory, of course, the Canadian PM is appointed by the governor general on behalf of the monarch.
His point is that your statement in #29 that "his party wins then elects him" is wrong. The last statement in the above quote is wrong, too. The PM is not "appointed" by anyone; he is elected as permanent party leader (until he resigns, voluntarily or otherwise) by party delegates at a leadership convention that is held only when a new leader has to be selected. After an election, some party leader -- generally the leader of the party that has won either a majority or plurality of parliamentary seats -- meets with the monarch (or the monarch's representative, the governor general) and asks to form a government. It's not theory, it's reality. In theory you could have a situation in which several parties form a coalition and nominate one of their leaders to ask to form a government instead, leading to a potential situation in which the party with a plurality of votes doesn't form a government, but a lesser party does -- and the governor general has the right to refuse such a request (or any other). Almost always, the party with the majority or plurality of seats is the one that forms the government in Canada, although coalitions are common in some other countries.

Back to the original question, signs for Trudeau or Scheer or whatever party leader exist only in their own ridings, where they run for MP (a seat in Parliament) like everybody else. Everywhere else, people vote for candidates for their local MP, and those are the names on the signs, along with the party logo.

In contrast to the strict delineation between the executive and legislative branches of government in the US, in Westminster parliamentary systems like in Canada and the UK, the head of the government executive branch and his/her cabinet members are also all MPs (members of parliament). This has both strengths and weaknesses, but it precludes the rancourous situations that arise when the executive and legislative branches are of different parties. The entire US system of government is intended by design to make governance a hard lift, with distrust of government inherently baked in to the system. The closest the parliamentary system comes to that situation is a minority government, where the governing party has a plurality but not a majority, and its legislative proposals can be outvoted by a combined opposition.
  #36  
Old 05-07-2020, 07:22 AM
asahi's Avatar
asahi is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: On your computer screen
Posts: 13,259
I don't recall seeing them in yards when I was in Japan, but they were in place places. The candidates also drove around in vans with megaphones and blasted their campaign messages at high decibel levels, sometimes rather early in the morning.
  #37  
Old 05-07-2020, 07:49 AM
Bijou Drains is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 12,068
There is some country , I think Israel, where you cannot run TV ads in the week before the election. If I am wrong about Israel someone will correct me .

US HOAs sometimes have rules about political signs but I don't know if those would stand up if challenged in court.

Last edited by Bijou Drains; 05-07-2020 at 07:50 AM.
  #38  
Old 05-07-2020, 01:57 PM
DrDeth is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: San Jose
Posts: 44,750
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfpup View Post
I've heard that rumour too!


His point is that your statement in #29 that "his party wins then elects him" is wrong. The last statement in the above quote is wrong, too. The PM is not "appointed" by anyone; he is elected as permanent party leader (until he resigns, voluntarily or otherwise) by party delegates at a leadership convention that is held only when a new leader has to be selected. After an election, some party leader -- generally the leader of the party that has won either a majority or plurality of parliamentary seats -- meets with the monarch (or the monarch's representative, the governor general) and asks to form a government. It's not theory, it's reality. ....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_..._and_selection
The prime minister, along with the other ministers in cabinet, is appointed by the governor general on behalf of the monarch.[12] However, by the conventions of responsible government, designed to maintain administrative stability, the governor general will call to form a government the individual most likely to receive the support, or confidence, of a majority of the directly elected members of the House of Commons;[13] as a practical matter, this is often the leader of a party whose members form a majority, or a very large plurality, of Members of Parliament (MPs).[14]
  #39  
Old 05-07-2020, 07:40 PM
wolfpup's Avatar
wolfpup is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 11,731
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDeth View Post
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_..._and_selection
The prime minister, along with the other ministers in cabinet, is appointed by the governor general on behalf of the monarch.[12] However, by the conventions of responsible government, designed to maintain administrative stability, the governor general will call to form a government the individual most likely to receive the support, or confidence, of a majority of the directly elected members of the House of Commons;[13] as a practical matter, this is often the leader of a party whose members form a majority, or a very large plurality, of Members of Parliament (MPs).[14]
I'm not going to get into an argument with you about how the Canadian system of government works. It works just as I described, and as further described here:
... Canada’s parliamentary system derives from the British, or “Westminster”, tradition. The Canadian system of parliamentary government has the following essential features:

...
  • The leader of the party having the support of the majority of the Members of the House of Commons is asked by the Governor General to form a government and becomes the Prime Minister;
The use of the word "appointed" comes from a very old document called the "Letters Patent Constituting the Office of Governor General of Canada" issued by King George VI in 1947 and predates both the modern Constitution (1982) and unwritten constitutional conventions (click or scroll down to "Constitutional Conventions"). It gives the GG the theoretical power to appoint Ministers, judges, ambassadors, and just about everybody else, though it says nothing about the Prime Minister himself, and even so, the GG actually appoints none of those; by constitutional convention, the Prime Minister does, and the PM himself acquires the position by virtue of being the leader of the winning party. The use of the word "appointed" is misleading at best as it implies that the governor general could appoint, say, his favorite son-in-law to be the next prime minister. That's not how it works.

Like the Queen herself, the position of GG is largely symbolic and his or her discretionary powers are extremely limited. They have the power to invite a given party to form a government, to open and prorogue or dissolve parliament, to call an election, and to give royal assent to all legislation before it becomes law. But except in very rare and exceptional cases, these actions are all automatic and pretty much mandated. The political bickering over proroguing parliament during the 2008-2009 parliamentary session was one of the rare cases when the governor general actually exercised discretionary power. The idea of the GG (and the Queen in the UK) is to have a head of state and symbolic authority figure who rises above politics and is strictly non-partisan in the rare cases when they exercise discretionary power.
  #40  
Old 05-07-2020, 08:08 PM
snowthx's Avatar
snowthx is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Sacratomato area
Posts: 3,867
Quote:
Originally Posted by harmonicamoon View Post
In my area of Mexico we don't have paper mills, and wood is expensive.

The political parties will pay a homeowner for space to paint a sign. Renting a wall or side of a house in order to get the name of the party and candidates in the view. Some maybe 10 meters wide. It appears that the homeowner is supporting the candidate. But the reality is they are doing it for the rent money.

The problem is it will be visible until the next election.
I was in Peru last fall and saw these shovel signs for the Popular Action party painted on many buildings in the countryside of Cusco state. I asked our guide about them and was informed they were political signs from the last election in 2016 (and earlier).
  #41  
Old 05-07-2020, 10:37 PM
Northern Piper is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: At home, hunkered.
Posts: 31,050
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDeth View Post
So, what is your point? If Trudeau's party , the Liberal Party, doesnt win, is Trudeau PM? Nope. Well, maybe if the election is so close neither party wins.
I was responding to your comment that if the party wins the election, then they elect their leader. I still don't understand what you're suggesting. The parties elect their leaders well in advance of the general election, and if they win, there's no additional leadership election; the leader who led them to government status is automatically their leader. There's no subsequent party election.
__________________
My great-grandparents came through emigrating to a new country.
My grandparents came through the Great War and the Great Depression.
My parents came through the Great Depression and World War II.
We will come through this pandemic. Hang on tight to the ones you love.
  #42  
Old 05-07-2020, 10:48 PM
Northern Piper is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: At home, hunkered.
Posts: 31,050
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfpup View Post
The PM is not "appointed" by anyone; he is elected as permanent party leader (until he resigns, voluntarily or otherwise) by party delegates at a leadership convention that is held only when a new leader has to be selected.
Quote:
It gives the GG the theoretical power to appoint Ministers, judges, ambassadors, and just about everybody else, though it says nothing about the Prime Minister himself, and even so, the GG actually appoints none of those; by constitutional convention, the Prime Minister does, and the PM himself acquires the position by virtue of being the leader of the winning party. The use of the word "appointed" is misleading at best as it implies that the governor general could appoint, say, his favorite son-in-law to be the next prime minister. That's not how it works.
And now I'm going to disagree with you, too. I must be in a disagreeable mood tonight.

Yes, the Prime Minister is appointed by someone - the GovGen. That is a legal appointment, without which the PM has no authority. Yes, the GovGen's power to choose is normally completely circumscribed by the party standings, but there is still a formal appointment. (He's elected party leader by his party, but that's separate from his position as PM.)

And yes, the GovGen has the legal authority to make appointments, such as judges, and that's derived directly from the Constitution in some cases, from the royal prerogative in others, and from statutes in still others. Yes, it's always done on the advice of the PM, but the PM does not have legal authority appoint. The piece of paper appointing a judge or ambassador or statutory officers needs to be signed by the GovGen, or else there is no appointment at law. The Gov Gen is the constitutional officer, appointed by the monarch and with status under the Constitution and statutes. The PM has no constitutional or statutory standing or powers.

Bagehot covedred it all in his distinction between the "dignified" parts of the Constitution, and the "efficient" parts.
__________________
My great-grandparents came through emigrating to a new country.
My grandparents came through the Great War and the Great Depression.
My parents came through the Great Depression and World War II.
We will come through this pandemic. Hang on tight to the ones you love.
  #43  
Old 05-08-2020, 12:09 AM
wolfpup's Avatar
wolfpup is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 11,731
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern Piper View Post
And now I'm going to disagree with you, too. I must be in a disagreeable mood tonight.

Yes, the Prime Minister is appointed by someone - the GovGen. That is a legal appointment, without which the PM has no authority. Yes, the GovGen's power to choose is normally completely circumscribed by the party standings, but there is still a formal appointment. (He's elected party leader by his party, but that's separate from his position as PM.)
And I'm going to disagree right back atcha. This strikes me as a semantic quibble rather than a substantive point, similar to saying that Parliament has no real power to enact laws, because they do not become laws until the GG gives royal assent ("GG" henceforth meaning the Governor General in Canada, or the Queen in the UK). But in reality it's Parliament that holds lawmaking power, and this is why we refer to our country both as a democracy and as a constitutional monarchy. The GG cannot arbitrarily appoint his favorite son-in-law as PM; there are no Jared Kushners in Canadian politics. Yes, the GG invites the appropriate party leader to a formal meeting in which he is invited to form a government, and when he walks away from that meeting he has, in some technical sense, been "appointed" to the role of PM, but it was an outcome that was inevitable and basically a formality. There are very rare exceptions like the one I mentioned involving attempted coalitions, but that doesn't change the main point.

I'm trying to make a pragmatic point rather than semantic nitpickery. It's true, as a matter of academic interest, that the GG (the monarchy) historically holds unspecified reserve powers, but if those powers were arbitrarily exercised without strong objective non-partisan justification and long-standing constitutional conventions, that would simply be the end of constitutional monarchy in Canada or the end of the monarchy in the UK. But that's not in the cards for the foreseeable future and I think the Westminster system with multiple parties works very well. For example, an orange doofus like Trump would have been gone within the first two weeks.

Last edited by wolfpup; 05-08-2020 at 12:12 AM.
  #44  
Old 05-08-2020, 12:20 AM
DrDeth is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: San Jose
Posts: 44,750
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfpup View Post
I'm not going to get into an argument with you about how the Canadian system of government works. ....
Too Late!

Like I said "In theory". I didnt say "in reality".
  #45  
Old 05-08-2020, 12:27 AM
DrDeth is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: San Jose
Posts: 44,750
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern Piper View Post
I was responding to your comment that if the party wins the election, then they elect their leader. I still don't understand what you're suggesting. The parties elect their leaders well in advance of the general election, and if they win, there's no additional leadership election; the leader who led them to government status is automatically their leader. There's no subsequent party election.
Yes, that is the way it occurred with Trudeau, and it is the most common way (but by no means the only way*.) I was simplifying it. In a parliamentary form of government, the people do not vote for the PM (except for as he is a MP, of course) . His party does, or a coalition.

It was short, one line answer to installLSC
I quickly googled "canadian campaign signs" and I noticed almost all the signs were local candidates, not the national party leaders. Do Trudeau, Scheer, and the others get their own signs? And if they don't, why?

*Sir John Joseph Caldwell Abbott and Sir Mackenzie Bowell for example. John turners case was also unusual.
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:36 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@straightdope.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Copyright © 2019 STM Reader, LLC.

 
Copyright © 2017