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  #251  
Old 10-22-2018, 08:38 PM
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Mitch sounds too much like bitch or witch which are not a words you want even subconsciously evoked when a woman runs in the general election.

I'd go with Sherrod Brown of Ohio myself.
  #252  
Old 10-23-2018, 06:44 AM
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But whenever he wins a debate or a race, we can say that his opponent got....Mitch-slapped.
  #253  
Old 10-23-2018, 07:25 AM
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Quoth septimus:

As long as I've been alive, the more charismatic candidate has won, every time!
A slight addendum to that: What matters is not the charisma itself, but its absolute value. Hillary Clinton had zero charisma, while Donald Trump has a very large but negative charisma. Clinton's charisma was therefore greater, but the absolute value of Trump's was greater.

asahi, in what sense did Sanders split the vote? He ran in the primary. He didn't run third-party in the general once he lost the primary.
  #254  
Old 10-24-2018, 06:46 AM
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Google remembers I'm a McRaven fan, so it just put a video of this 4-star admiral in my YouTube feed. It's from 3 years ago; McRaven is praising FBI Director Robert Mueller at a fund-raising gala. He seems charismatic enough to me.

Why aren't we spearheading the Draft McRaven movement? The Texan who killed Osama bin Laden could hardly lose an election. All the other Democratic choices are quite iffy.
  #255  
Old 10-24-2018, 01:20 PM
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I'd be fine with McRaven. He seems principled and not a Trump suck-up. Pair him with someone who can bring in what he lacks and we might have some traction.
  #256  
Old 10-24-2018, 01:48 PM
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I'd be fine with McRaven. He seems principled and not a Trump suck-up. Pair him with someone who can bring in what he lacks and we might have some traction.
I've said McRaven paired with one of the following would be fairly unstoppable:

Hilda Solis, former Congresswoman from CA, progressive, union-friendly, Obama's Labor Secretary, currently on the Los Angeles County Board of Supervisors. She's female, Latina, the daughter of immigrants, the daughter of union members and a Teamster organizer. She's got a nice connection to the Obama presidency at a time when many Americans are feeling nostalgic, yet wasn't a high-profile member of the cabinet with a bright-red target on her head. Photogenic, good speaker. Only downside: From California, but with Mcraven at the top, that's less of an issue.

Brenda Lawrence, Congresswoman from Michigan, progressive, worked her way up in government: former school board member, city councilwoman and mayor of Southfield, MI (one of the most racially, economically, religiously and politically diverse cities in Michigan), retired career Postal Worker (started as carrier, ended in HR), former union member, husband is retired UAW, African-American, has been doing a lot of cable talking head stuff. Downside: Largely unknown (which could also be an asset as she's got no GOP target on her).

Elizabeth Warren (least favorite of the three, but would bring a good economic message and hardcore name recognition to the ticket).

Now granted, two of those three are very outside-the-box choices, but I think paired with McRaven (and facing off against Pence on the debate stage), they'd be awesome, filling in the gaps on the top of the ticket nicely.


Seriously, septimus, how do we draft this guy to run? You're the only other person who seems to share my dreams here for this guy.

Last edited by Happy Lendervedder; 10-24-2018 at 01:50 PM.
  #257  
Old 10-24-2018, 02:18 PM
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I've said McRaven paired with one of the following would be fairly unstoppable:

Hilda Solis, former Congresswoman from CA, progressive, union-friendly, Obama's Labor Secretary, currently on the Los Angeles County Board of Supervisors. She's female, Latina, the daughter of immigrants, the daughter of union members and a Teamster organizer. She's got a nice connection to the Obama presidency at a time when many Americans are feeling nostalgic, yet wasn't a high-profile member of the cabinet with a bright-red target on her head. Photogenic, good speaker. Only downside: From California, but with Mcraven at the top, that's less of an issue.

Brenda Lawrence, Congresswoman from Michigan, progressive, worked her way up in government: former school board member, city councilwoman and mayor of Southfield, MI (one of the most racially, economically, religiously and politically diverse cities in Michigan), retired career Postal Worker (started as carrier, ended in HR), former union member, husband is retired UAW, African-American, has been doing a lot of cable talking head stuff. Downside: Largely unknown (which could also be an asset as she's got no GOP target on her).

Elizabeth Warren (least favorite of the three, but would bring a good economic message and hardcore name recognition to the ticket).

Now granted, two of those three are very outside-the-box choices, but I think paired with McRaven (and facing off against Pence on the debate stage), they'd be awesome, filling in the gaps on the top of the ticket nicely.


Seriously, septimus, how do we draft this guy to run? You're the only other person who seems to share my dreams here for this guy.
Yes, he looks good. Als of course Harris could be Veep. or Duckworth.
  #258  
Old 10-24-2018, 02:31 PM
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Here's a CNN opinion piece from just two months ago that outlines reasons that Bill McRaven would be the ideal candidate. Another opinion echoes the CNN piece and mentions Joe Biden's recent praise.

But "Citing health concerns, McRaven has announced plans to step down from his current position as Chancellor of the University of Texas System later this year." Whether true, or just an excuse, this doesn't bode well.

We now know that competence and policies don't matter to a large plurality of American voters. Without a flamboyant hero like Admiral Bill McRaven opposing Trump on the stage, I fear the nightmare may continue for another four years.
  #259  
Old 10-24-2018, 03:28 PM
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In recent history, it seems like military flag officers have generally not been interested in running for office.

I have sort of a theory about why. Among the military people that I know personally, a very common topic of conversation is how much of a pain in the ass the bureaucracy of the military is. To hear them tell it, the only thing that's more of a pain in the ass is having to deal with civilian bureaucracy.

It could simply be that after all the years of putting their time in, these people simply want to be done with it, rather than volunteer for even more.

The only flag officer that I can remember in my own lifetime running for president was Wesley Clark, and his campaign did not go well.

Edit: oh, also, James Stockdale was Perot's VP. That also did not go well.

Last edited by Lamoral; 10-24-2018 at 03:30 PM.
  #260  
Old 10-24-2018, 06:12 PM
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... Why aren't we spearheading the Draft McRaven movement? ...
Because of his health issues. He has chronic lymphocytic leukemia (since 2010) and as mentioned recently had to step down as chancellor of UT due to those issues. It was not just an excuse; he had been hospitalized earlier in the year.

His current health would likely not allow him to handle the demands of a campaign and would be considered disqualifying by many voters.
  #261  
Old 10-24-2018, 07:13 PM
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John O. Brennan's been on the anti-Trump speaking circuit quite a bit these past couple years. Maybe that crusty old spook is planning something. Sure, he has that time he voted for a commie in the 70s, but it was largely a priest cute. And a former head of the CIA becoming president isn't without precedent.
  #262  
Old 10-24-2018, 07:15 PM
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Sure, he has that time he voted for a commie in the 70s, but it was largely a priest cute.
I struggled very hard to understand what you meant here before realizing that it was probably an autocorrected attempt to write "protest vote".
  #263  
Old 10-24-2018, 08:37 PM
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I struggled very hard to understand what you meant here before realizing that it was probably an autocorrected attempt to write "protest vote".
Probably one of the more interesting autocorrect fails I've ever done, but yep, you are correct.

Last edited by Happy Lendervedder; 10-24-2018 at 08:38 PM.
  #264  
Old 10-24-2018, 10:59 PM
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Mitch Landrieu.

Ignore him, disrespect him at your (our) country's peril.
  #265  
Old 10-25-2018, 01:53 PM
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Mitch Landrieu.

Ignore him, disrespect him at your (our) country's peril.
As a fan of The Shield, I would vote for him. Make the Strike Team Great Again!
  #266  
Old 10-25-2018, 04:28 PM
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Stockdale was supposed to be a temp place filler for Perot but he ended up being on the ticket for good.
  #267  
Old 10-30-2018, 11:05 AM
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https://www.politico.com/story/2018/...rimary-943252?
  #268  
Old 10-30-2018, 11:30 AM
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For those who don't want to bother with that link, continue not bothering with it. It's just a story about who's getting more media attention. Which is completely meaningless, because most of the media attention at this stage consists of "Who's getting more media attention?".
  #269  
Old 10-30-2018, 12:20 PM
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here is an article on Avenatti putting together a team of advisers to use if he runs

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/...ampaign-944994
  #270  
Old 10-30-2018, 01:00 PM
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Avenatti can't win. Period. If it's a choice between two crazy people, voters will pick the one presiding over a good economy and no wars. Assuming that's the status quo in 2020 of course.

I'm not sure why any Democratic voter would trust Avenatti in any case. Does he have any history of fighting for progressive causes?
  #271  
Old 10-30-2018, 05:32 PM
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One candidate the Democrats should seriously consider if he runs - Michael Bloomberg. He's a Democrat again, and can use his ex-Republican cred to pull in independents and moderate Republicans.

And hey, it would be the battle of two New York media and real estate giants. He would take away all of Trump's talking points.

Maybe you can get a thoughtful Silicon Valley billionaire to run. Someone like Tim Cook, if by then he's tired of making huge money at Apple.

If you run one of the usual left-leaning political subjects like Cory Booker, Elizabeth Warren, Joe Biden or Julian Castro, Trump will crush you. People are getting tired of identity politics, which is why you got Trump in the first place. You need someone who can address the issues that matter to the majority of Americans.

And above all, you need to shut up the 'open borders' wingnuts on your side. If it's not clear by now, immigration is clearly a third rail issue, and Democrats are on the losing side of it. Just look at Europe, where open border policies have resulted in the rise of far-right politics in just about every country. Trump is killing the Democrats on immigration.
  #272  
Old 10-30-2018, 05:43 PM
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If you run one of the usual left-leaning political subjects like Cory Booker, Elizabeth Warren, Joe Biden or Julian Castro, Trump will crush you.
I know! We had the most charismatic and popular Democrat in a century -- Hillary Clinton -- and Trump still edged her out, barely. If we put a wet blanket with decades of concerted Republican attacks against him like (gasp!) Cory Booker, what hope could we possibly have?

If there's anything I learned from 2016, it's that random predictions about who will "crush" who are definitely worth taking seriously.

Last edited by iiandyiiii; 10-30-2018 at 05:44 PM.
  #273  
Old 10-30-2018, 05:48 PM
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THe fundamentals matter more than candidate quality, but I'd still be wary of a) someone with a lot of baggage before the campaign even starts, and b) someone who is an elitist who is easy for Trump to attack with his populist appeals.

Fortunately, I think only Warren is vulnerable to Trump, and even worse for her, she's proven that Trump can goad her into doing things she doesn't have to do. She disqualified herself, IMO, Not from being President, but for running aginst someone like Trump. You can't have a candidate who will basically be played like a fiddle by Trump.
  #274  
Old 10-30-2018, 06:49 PM
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One candidate the Democrats should seriously consider if he runs - Michael Bloomberg. He's a Democrat again ...
Bloomberg has no chance of the nomination, has no following among those who vote in Democratic primaries and caucuses, and would the best example possible of how to misread the mood of the electorate with a candidate who completely turns off both many democratic voters whose turnout would be needed while failing to appeal to, well, virtually anyone.

"Moderate Republicans" have made their bed. The party did not fracture. It is the party of the far right conspiracy nuts and they are willing to ride in the back seat since it travels down some streets they wanted to go to.

"Independents" who voted Trump will not be attracted to Bloomberg's fiscally conservative middle. They'd be more likely to be swayed by an economic populist arguing for a different sort of change.


Aventii and his grandstanding is a large part of why we have Kavanaugh on SCOTUS and some renewed energy within the GOP ranks.
  #275  
Old 10-30-2018, 06:55 PM
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Avenatti can't win.
Yes, us Dems always should take advice from hardocre Repubs.

This means we should start getting him ready for the run!
  #276  
Old 10-30-2018, 08:13 PM
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Quoth Sam Stone:

People are getting tired of identity politics, which is why you got Trump in the first place.
Trump won on a platform of literally nothing other than identity politics.
  #277  
Old 10-31-2018, 04:04 AM
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It is true that to win in 2020, Democrats need to understand what sort of sane person votes for Trump and pick a candidate who appeals to that base.

No, that doesn't mean trying to out-clown the Clown or to out-hate the Hater-in-Chief. But we aren't looking for some anti-Trump either. Nominating Elizabeth Warren is identical to saying "We want 4 more years of Trump."

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Bloomberg has no chance of the nomination, has no following among those who vote in Democratic primaries and caucuses, and would the best example possible of how to misread the mood of the electorate with a candidate who completely turns off both many democratic voters whose turnout would be needed while failing to appeal to, well, virtually anyone....

Aventii and his grandstanding is a large part of why we have Kavanaugh on SCOTUS and some renewed energy within the GOP ranks.
I agree that Bloomberg and Avenatti are names put forth by those trying to sabotage the D's. Bloomberg may be a fine man, but would this Jewish man take votes away from Trunp and the haters? It is to laugh. (Most Trumpists don't even know Ivanka is a Jew. Those that do excuse her because her Daddy wuvs her hot ass so very very much.)

And Avenatti? Even the Pizza Man and the somnolent "brain surgeon" were never more than jokes — on a Republican stage where being confused or ignorant is considered a Plus. And now someone like Avenatti is being touted for the Democratic candidacy? We laugh because it hurts too much to cry.


But who, then? I'd prefer an older experienced guy. But only Joe Biden comes to mind. He'd be 78 years old when inaugurated for his first turn.

"Eighty is the new seventy"? Fine, but look at the history of 70-year old Presidents:
  • Before Reagan and Trump, Eisenhower was the very first President to ever be in office at age 70. And he was a young 62 when first inaugurated.
  • Before Eisenhower, only five men aged 59 or more were ever elected to a first term of President. (Adams, Jackson, Harrison, Taylor, Buchanan.)
  • When Bush-41 was inaugurated at age 64, he was older than all but two prior first-inaugurees (Harrison, Buchanan). Removing the "first" stipulation adds only three names (Jackson, Eisenhower and, by just a few days, Truman).

Thus we're not being asked to believe "Eighty is the new seventy," We're being asked to believe "Eighty is the new sixty."

I was pushing for Biden vigorously 2½ years ago but he was younger then ... and the sitting Vice President. Bernie Sanders is even older than Biden. And at his best, Bernie makes a better mascot than a leader.

By process of elimination, some in the thread may be zeroing in on Mitch Landrieu. Is he the one? Maybe — I'm afraid have no obviously better suggestion to offer — but at least one New Orleanian doesn't think so.
  #278  
Old 10-31-2018, 07:19 AM
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... Bloomberg may be a fine man, but would this Jewish man take votes away from Trunp and the haters? It is to laugh. ...[/URL]
No question even before this last horrific act that there is a significant thread of Jew hatred rising. Sorry to be so matter of fact about it but well, it happens. No shock to me. It is always around the corner.

But those who support Trump and are Jew haters are not going to be won over. They hate other "others" as well. They are not the balance in any election.

He's unelectable because of his positions.
  #279  
Old 10-31-2018, 08:22 AM
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Yes, us Dems always should take advice from hardocre Repubs.

This means we should start getting him ready for the run!
I think I'm pretty safe with that one. What is Avenatti's base?
  #280  
Old 10-31-2018, 08:23 AM
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Trump won on a platform of literally nothing other than identity politics.
Which is why Democrats shouldn't play that game. They do know what the word "minority" means, right? It means if you play identity politics with the minority vs. the majority, majority wins every time.
  #281  
Old 10-31-2018, 10:05 AM
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Because he's about as far from a sexual predator as it's possible to get. He's taking responsibility for his own conduct by making it clear to all that no woman is ever in a compromising position around him. In this world of Clintons, Trumps, Cosbys and Weinsteins, I'd think that's a good thing. In this world of Thomases and Hills and of Kavanaughs and Fords, I'd think it's a good thing that there's no situation that will come down to the he-said-she-said-neither side comes out unscathed kind of fight.

In what way is it inherently discriminatory? Is there some kind of non-sexual advantage that attaches itself to a situation of being alone with a member of the opposite sex? Have women in Mike Pence's employ or potential employ been denied jobs, raises or promotions (to a degree equal to that of men) because he will not be alone with one of them in a room?
OMG. I can't believe this has to be pointed out, but: the idea that Pence's behaviour re: women is 'praiseworthy' is asinine.

"I don't dare be around these she-devils, that will seduce me with their femaleness. I don't dare risk being alone with one, I need my wife or a chaperone to feel safe".
He's not taking responsibilty for his conduct. He's doing the absolute opposite of that. It's indirectly blaming women for being...you know, women.

Look at it this way: What do you think the general consensus would be if a woman running for political office said she would never meet with a man one-on-one?


As for who should run in 2020. Hell I dunno. Warren is running, which is a disappointment. I think she's awesome, and she'd make a great president, but she's already shown she can't beat Trump. Trump will beat her like a rented mule.
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Last edited by DragonAsh; 10-31-2018 at 10:10 AM.
  #282  
Old 10-31-2018, 03:41 PM
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DragonAsh:

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OMG. I can't believe this has to be pointed out, but: the idea that Pence's behaviour re: women is 'praiseworthy' is asinine.

"I don't dare be around these she-devils, that will seduce me with their femaleness. I don't dare risk being alone with one, I need my wife or a chaperone to feel safe".
He's not taking responsibilty for his conduct. He's doing the absolute opposite of that. It's indirectly blaming women for being...you know, women.
I disagree with this assessment of his personal rules, but I have a feeling that we are starting from such different points of origin that any attempt at debating it will be pointless.
  #283  
Old 10-31-2018, 03:47 PM
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Pence's behavior depends a lot on the context. Some spouses just don't want their spouse to be alone with someone of the opposite sex(or same sex if it's a same sex marriage). There's also the issue of impropriety. In the #MeToo era, covering your ass by never being anywhere with a woman where there aren't witnesses is perfectly understandable. Then there's the standard accusations of adultery.
  #284  
Old 11-04-2018, 12:03 AM
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Are we sure Bill McRaven is too sick to run?

Even Chris Matthews of FoxNews has good words to say about him, taking his side over Trump's.
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Old 05-12-2020, 07:04 AM
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This thread hasn't been bumped for 19 months, but we still haven't agreed on a best ticket or who is likely to win. Joe Biden, accused rapist? He ain't it.

Of course we should assume that Tara Reade and the entire GOP-FoxNews-Kremlin axis are lying; but we knew all along the re-election of Trump would be supported by the greatest onslaught of lies and propaganda in all of human history. I'm afraid the aging Biden can't handle it.

At this point, I'd be rooting for Joe Biden to plead health emergency and pass the baton to a sturdy Number-Two. But we don't have any Number-Two who's even as likely to win against Trump as Old Joe the Gaffe-artist.

But ...

... There is one man who could give up cards and spades and still beat Trump easily. The American hero Admiral Bill McRaven is back in the news lately, writing a February opinion piece for the Washington Post.
Quote:
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Are we sure Bill McRaven is too sick to run?

Even Chris Matthews of FoxNews has good words to say about him, taking his side over Trump's.
Texas Tribune, with my emphasis:
"McRaven suffers from non-life-threatening chronic lymphocytic leukemia."


Draft Admiral Bill and Win. Stick with Joe or some other second-stringer and lose. Take your pick.
  #286  
Old 05-12-2020, 07:11 AM
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"His severe chronic disease isn't life-threatening" is not the same thing as "he's healthy".

And which votes, exactly, would he pull in? Who would vote for an admiral they've never heard of, over any of the other potential candidates?
  #287  
Old 05-12-2020, 08:32 AM
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If psychological health is included, McRaven's health is almost certainly better than Trump's, perhaps Biden's as well. He's only 64 years old.

Who would vote for him? Who would vote for him? Almost anybody reluctant to vote for Trump or Biden. He might not be rvery famous now, but neither were most of the Ds on the stage, starting out. I think a few ads will remind the American people real quick who he is. (IIRC, Trump even asked him to be National Security Advisor.)

Some Trump voters admire the military. Here are some of the Admiral's decorations (in alphabetic order):
SPOILER:

Afghanistan Campaign Medal
Bronze Star Medal with gold award star
Combat Action Ribbon
Defense Distinguished Service Medal w/ two bronze oak leaf clusters
Defense Meritorious Service Medal
Defense Superior Service Medal with oak leaf cluster
Global War on Terrorism Expeditionary Medal
Global War on Terrorism Service Medal
Iraq Campaign Medal
Joint Service Commendation Medal
Kuwait Liberation Medal (Kuwait)
Kuwait Liberation Medal (Saudi Arabia)
Legion of Merit with one gold award star
Meritorious Service Medal with three gold award stars
National Defense Service Medal with bronze service star
National Intelligence Distinguished Public Service Medal
Naval Special Warfare insignia
Navy "E" Ribbon
Navy Expert Pistol Shot Medal
Navy Expert Rifleman Medal
Navy Sea Service Deployment Ribbon
Navy Unit Commendation with two bronze service stars
Navy and Marine Corps Achievement Medal
Navy and Marine Corps Commendation Medal
Navy and Marine Corps Overseas Service Ribbon
Navy and Marine Corps Parachutist Insignia
Presidential Service Badge
Southwest Asia Service Medal with three bronze service stars
United States Special Operations Command Badge



Trick question: Who played the title role in the film The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance?

Follow-on: Who was The Man Who Killed Osama bin-Laden?
  #288  
Old 05-12-2020, 08:37 AM
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Some Trump voters claim to admire the military. Remember what happened the last time we ran a highly-decorated veteran?

And "he'll get voters who are reluctant to vote for Trump or Biden" is meaningless. You could construct an equivalent statement for literally every possible candidate.
  #289  
Old 05-12-2020, 12:15 PM
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"McRaven suffers from non-life-threatening chronic lymphocytic leukemia."
That's your emphasis. What the general public will read is "McRaven suffers from non-life-threatening chronic lymphocytic leukemia."

A.) McRaven would have to be absolutely insane to run with leukemia. There is no more stressful job and stress is linked with bad results in CLL. He doesn't strike me as suicidal, so that probably ends the thought experiment right there.

B.) It absolutely would play heavily against him if he were so foolish.

It's not going to happen. Biden is the candidate, barring total disgrace or a health disaster. Ambitious politicians like that don't step down voluntarily. Might as well just accept it.

Last edited by Tamerlane; 05-12-2020 at 12:15 PM.
  #290  
Old 05-12-2020, 02:09 PM
DrDeth is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: San Jose
Posts: 44,721
Quote:
Originally Posted by septimus View Post
This thread hasn't been bumped for 19 months, but we still haven't agreed on a best ticket or who is likely to win. Joe Biden, accused rapist? He ain't it.

Of course we should assume that Tara Reade and the entire GOP-FoxNews-Kremlin axis are lying; but we knew all along the re-election of Trump would be supported by the greatest onslaught of lies and propaganda in all of human history. I'm afraid the aging Biden can't handle it.

At this point, I'd be rooting for Joe Biden to plead health emergency and pass the baton to a sturdy Number-Two. But we don't have any Number-Two who's even as likely to win against Trump as Old Joe the Gaffe-artist.

But ...

... There is one man who could give up cards and spades and still beat Trump easily. The American hero Admiral Bill McRaven is back in the news lately, writing a February opinion piece for the Washington Post.


Texas Tribune, with my emphasis:
"McRaven suffers from non-life-threatening chronic lymphocytic leukemia."


Draft Admiral Bill and Win. Stick with Joe or some other second-stringer and lose. Take your pick.
They will just accuse Admiral Bill of Rape.
  #291  
Old 05-13-2020, 08:26 PM
PhillyGuy is offline
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Location: Pennsylvania U.S.A.
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Most Likely to win?

Biden-Sewell

Terri Sewell (D-Alabama) is moderate, an electoral plus validated by political science research. And as an African-American woman, she would help keep the Democratic coalition together.

Experience-wise, she’s been in the House long enough to be plausible, even though a relative unknown nationally.

Princeton, Harvard, Oxford. Those kind do win a lot.

Never-Trumpers will like her. Not a negative to me.
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