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  #2401  
Old 02-27-2020, 11:10 PM
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She won't accept it from you though, just like she wouldn't accept it from Spookybot or Hannelore. It has to be from the government for some reason that still isn't clear to me.
Maybe she was framed, but can't prove it, so she wants to stick it to the government in what small way she's able.
  #2402  
Old 02-28-2020, 01:50 AM
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Humanlike AI bodies are clearly a luxury good in the QC universe, and there are plentiful examples of AIs that are quite happy with no chassis, an 'industrial robot' type chassis, or completely non-human chassis.
Humanoid bodies may be somewhat of a luxury, but bodies themselves have never been portrayed as such. It very much seems like anyone who wants a body gets one. But May got a crappy one, and can't get it serviced (healthcare) because she can't get a good job and there is no AI equivalent to Medicaid. Her only chance was a charity, but that charity laughed Roko out for even suggesting they try to do better.

Roko's mission has never been about May. She quit her police job over how ex-cons were treated. Her goal is to use May's situation to help better the plight of ex-cons. She wants there to be an actual well-funded way to get AI ex-cons decent bodies and basic repairs (healthcare) to help them have a fair start in the world after they've served their time.

And May not jumping to get another body when she could is proof that her impulse control problems aren't controlling her anymore. She's able to decide "Yeah, I want a body, but I'd rather wait it out both for Roko, my friend, and to help out others in similar situations."

I won't argue that any of this is a perfect analogy to the real world, but why does it need to be? The whole reason he made it about AI instead of people is that he hates direct comparisons. He's just appealing to the general idea that ex-cons are mistreated, and established what that looks like in his world.

Actually making parallels just invites the complaints like yours.
  #2403  
Old 02-28-2020, 05:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Pantastic View Post
She won't accept it from you though, just like she wouldn't accept it from Spookybot or Hannelore. It has to be from the government for some reason that still isn't clear to me.
In-universe, because the way May and Roko view it is a matter of rights and not something for which you should depend on either charity or private patronage, nor something that you should say that the socioeconomically "unsuccesful" should settle for the crappiest bare minimum at the threshold of subsistence.

Last edited by JRDelirious; 02-28-2020 at 05:43 AM.
  #2404  
Old 02-28-2020, 07:11 AM
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Ukelele Ike, can we please dial back the creepiness? This is a pattern for you. Yes, I know that you still remember the social standards of the 1970s. But this isn't the 1970s any more, not by a long shot. Just because something was acceptable then doesn't mean that it's acceptable now, nor even that it should have been acceptable then.
  #2405  
Old 02-28-2020, 08:13 AM
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Maybe she was framed, but can't prove it, so she wants to stick it to the government in what small way she's able.
She freely admitted that she embezzled the money to buy a fighter jet. She even seemed proud of her plan.
  #2406  
Old 02-28-2020, 09:27 AM
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Humanoid bodies may be somewhat of a luxury, but bodies themselves have never been portrayed as such. It very much seems like anyone who wants a body gets one. But May got a crappy one, and can't get it serviced (healthcare) because she can't get a good job and there is no AI equivalent to Medicaid. Her only chance was a charity, but that charity laughed Roko out for even suggesting they try to do better.
Human-like bodies are explicitly a luxury, not somewhat of a luxury. The cost of Momo's body was enough to shock Hannelore when she bought it, and Momo has been paying off the body for some time. Roko's new body was so nice because of good insurance, it isn't something she would have been able to afford on her own. Far from 'anybody who wants a human-like body can get one', the people we've seen get one have had someone else with a lot of money pay for it - I don't think we've actually seen a single robot buy their own human-like body, other than spookybot who is essentially a demi-god.

And that's why the scenario is off - Roko got a low-end luxury body and its unreliable, but (like I said in my first post) why have her get what's clearly been shown as the luxury model instead of something basic and less prone to trouble? And yet again, why is the fight for 'medicaid only for felonious robots'? The idea that felons deserve better treatment than non-felons doesn't make any sense, and definitely is not the 'obviously right' answer that it's being portrayed as. "There is no robot Medicaid" would be a sensible crusade, "There is no robot Medicaid for felons, but I don't care about robots who haven't tried to rob people" doesn't have the same ring to it.

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I won't argue that any of this is a perfect analogy to the real world, but why does it need to be? The whole reason he made it about AI instead of people is that he hates direct comparisons. He's just appealing to the general idea that ex-cons are mistreated, and established what that looks like in his world.
As far as bodies go, May isn't being treated any worse than the many AIs we've seen who have not tried to steal large sums of money to acquire military hardware for personal use. What he's showing in this case is that ex-cons are treated slightly better than regular AIs (she did get a human-like body for free), not that 'ex-cons are mistreated'.

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Actually making parallels just invites the complaints like yours.
If you're going to try to make a point about serious issues, then you should expect people to try to figure out what you're trying to say about the serious issue.
  #2407  
Old 02-28-2020, 09:29 AM
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In-universe, because the way May and Roko view it is a matter of rights and not something for which you should depend on either charity or private patronage, nor something that you should say that the socioeconomically "unsuccesful" should settle for the crappiest bare minimum at the threshold of subsistence.
That is an incorrect summary of their position. What we've seen is that May and Roko apparently view it as a matter of rights FOR FELONS ONLY but not for 'the socioeconomically unsuccessful' in general. As I said in my initial post, the issue is the fact that they view it as a matter of rights only for AIs who have done something bad, not AIs in general. But they're only fighting to get this aid FOR EX-CONS and not for robots in general, and making arguments specific to ex-cons (like Roko's data on recidivism rates). If the problem was that felons didn't get the 'medicaid' that other robots do, then it would work fine - but that hasn't been shown to be the case.

The strip has clearly shown repeatedly that AIs who are at a 'normal' or 'low' level of economic success cannot afford to buy a chassis like May wants on their own. Every example of an AI buying one in the strip has involved someone else's money. And we see plenty of AIs who are not in a human-like chassis in the strip as a matter of course, I didn't add the idea to the world.

"Everyone gets a human-like body if they want one" is a sensible position. "Everyone who commits a felony gets a human-like body if they want one, but the rest of you better hope you have a rich friend willing to give a gift, well-off friend willing to make a major loan, or get in an accident caused by someone with good insurance if you want one" or "I tried to steal money from people, therefore I deserve a luxury, but you plebes who didn't try and fail to take someone's stuff should just suffer" just isn't sensible or sympathetic.
  #2408  
Old 02-28-2020, 11:57 AM
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Human-like bodies are explicitly a luxury, not somewhat of a luxury. The cost of Momo's body was enough to shock Hannelore when she bought it, and Momo has been paying off the body for some time. Roko's new body was so nice because of good insurance, it isn't something she would have been able to afford on her own. Far from 'anybody who wants a human-like body can get one', the people we've seen get one have had someone else with a lot of money pay for it - I don't think we've actually seen a single robot buy their own human-like body, other than spookybot who is essentially a demi-god.
I don't think the comic has portrayed human bodies as an explicit luxury. Most of the AIs we see in the comic - counting background robots and one-off characters - have human bodies, which implies that's more the default than something special that only a lucky few can afford. The business model for Faye and Bubbles' repair shop doesn't seem based on serving high-end clientele, either. Roko's body is explicitly high end, Momo's body was on the upper edge of what Marigold could afford, but we don't really know how high-end that's supposed to be. But May's body certainly isn't a luxury - it's a pile of crap that's constantly falling apart or malfunctioning. That's not something we've seen with, really, any other AI's body, which all seem to be pretty robust, even when abused. Punchbot would need lots of repairs after a fight, but didn't seem to have any problems with his body between fights. Pintsize's chassis can be punted across the room or stuffed with chocolate frosting, and it doesn't give him any long-term operational problems. Whereas May's leg just falls off sometimes for basically no reason, which is the sort of problem that seems to only affect her - and, by extension, other ex-con AIs - and is not just a function of being a poor/working class robot.
  #2409  
Old 02-28-2020, 12:06 PM
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In any case, I enjoyed today’s giant robot bear.
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  #2410  
Old 02-28-2020, 12:08 PM
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On further review with the other moderators, I find that you have already been given multiple instructions to stop the creepy behavior to women. I am therefore upgrading this to a Warning. We are also instituting a formal topic ban: you are hereby prohibited from any further creepy behavior towards women, including (but not limited to) sexual objectivication or bringing up sex with regard to a woman. Do not say anything about a woman that you would not say about a man in the same situation. Yes, this is a broad injunction. If you are unsure whether something would violate it, don't post it
  #2411  
Old 02-28-2020, 12:16 PM
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Okey doke. I’ll stick to the recipe threads. Thanks for the clarification.
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  #2412  
Old 02-28-2020, 12:18 PM
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Human-like bodies are explicitly a luxury, not somewhat of a luxury. The cost of Momo's body was enough to shock Hannelore when she bought it, and Momo has been paying off the body for some time.
Actually, Marigold (not Hannelore) forgave that debt almost immediately in exchange for a Harem Fighter video game. So it couldn't have been that pricey.
  #2413  
Old 02-28-2020, 01:08 PM
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I don't think the comic has portrayed human bodies as an explicit luxury. Most of the AIs we see in the comic - counting background robots and one-off characters - have human bodies, which implies that's more the default than something special that only a lucky few can afford. The business model for Faye and Bubbles' repair shop doesn't seem based on serving high-end clientele, either.
I have no idea where you're getting 'a lucky few', I certainly didn't say that. A new car costs $20-$50k, and is definitely a luxury. But they're not so rare that you don't see them all the time, and there are plenty of businesses that service cars that function without focusing on 'high end clientele'. What May is doing is saying "I got out of prison, and they just gave me an old clunker. I could take the bus or walk, but instead of doing what non-felon plebs have to do, I deserve a new car for... reasons".

Quote:
Roko's body is explicitly high end, Momo's body was on the upper edge of what Marigold could afford, but we don't really know how high-end that's supposed to be. But May's body certainly isn't a luxury -
Punchbot has a non-human body. So does Pintsize. So did Momo and Winston originally. Why doesn't May get a body like one of those, or even Momo's or Winston's cast off original body if her current body is 'not a luxury'? Again, I don't see why should May get a luxury body for free when the others don't.

Like I keep saying, if the idea is "AIs should have a human like body if they want without having to buy it", I find that a sensible position. But I can't get behind "AIs should have a human like body if they want and have committed a felony, otherwise they have to buy it or use someone else's money". "If you are a disembodied AI that wants a human-like body, either commit a felony or use someone else's money to get one" just doesn't seem like a good policy if you want to discourage felonies being done.

Quote:
and, by extension, other ex-con AIs - and is not just a function of being a poor/working class robot.
It doesn't affect most other ex-con AIs because most ex-con AIs either have another body to return to or don't want a body. This has been explained in comic and mentioned in the thread already. And it clearly affects poor/working class robots, because they're shown as not being able to afford on their own what May believes she's entitled to by virtue of being a felon.
  #2414  
Old 02-28-2020, 01:14 PM
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Actually, Marigold (not Hannelore) forgave that debt almost immediately in exchange for a Harem Fighter video game. So it couldn't have been that pricey.
Or she could have felt bad about it being a loan and decided to turn a loan for an expensive item into a gift. If a human-like chassis really only costs as much as a video game (under $100) then why is May even bothering to repair the chassis when she got that much from her face sitting (and non-sitting) adventures with pPntsize?
  #2415  
Old 02-28-2020, 01:45 PM
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I have no idea where you're getting 'a lucky few', I certainly didn't say that. A new car costs $20-$50k, and is definitely a luxury. But they're not so rare that you don't see them all the time, and there are plenty of businesses that service cars that function without focusing on 'high end clientele'. What May is doing is saying "I got out of prison, and they just gave me an old clunker. I could take the bus or walk, but instead of doing what non-felon plebs have to do, I deserve a new car for... reasons".
May doesn't want a brand new car, she wants one where the wheels aren't constantly falling off. Your assuming that the "looks human" part is a special luxury, but I don't think that's supportable from what we've seen in the comic. Momo and Winslowe couldn't afford the human bodies they eventually upgraded into, but those were relatively expensive, high-end bodies. Could Momo have gotten a crap-pile body like the one May currently has, without having to rely on Marigold's generosity? Possibly, but she'd probably have preferred to keep her chibi-bod rather than deal with one that's breaking down all the time. Could May get an anthroPC chassis? Possibly, but she'd probably be stuck with a worn out piece of crap that breaks all the time, like her current human body.
  #2416  
Old 02-28-2020, 01:59 PM
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When Momo originally asked for the new Mitsubishi PX-3500, Marigold said she'd have to take out a loan for $30,000 to pay for it.

A few strips later, when she settled on what was later described as a Sony KawaiiPC HPC-4100X, the price was so high it made blood shoot out of Marigold's nose. So the price had to be significantly higher than $30k.

But tucked in that sequence of comics is an essay from the author which seems to imply that once AI's achieve sentience, they get to choose what they do, which seems to include a free body at that time. And the salesrobot in the store has moved from being a forklift, to the AI on a nuclear ballistic missile sub to her current chassis. Presumably she was being paid for being a forklift and running a submarine, which is how she afforded the body she's in now?
  #2417  
Old 03-09-2020, 12:22 AM
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Saw Pixar's Onward today. Every time the Mom elf was on screen, I was like 'Oh hey, it's Faye.'
  #2418  
Old 05-18-2020, 08:48 AM
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So last week, Claire passed her test, and they had a party to celebrate. She didn't want to make Faye uncomfortable by having it at a bar, so they went to Coffee of Doom and had a weed party. I understand that alcohol and weed are very different, and that there's not really a chemical dependency issue with weed like there is with alcoholism. But it struck me as odd. I no longer have any alcoholics in my life, and no longer smoke weed or hang out with any smokers. Was this as short-sighted as I initially feel it was? Are weed and alcohol different enough (at least to the extent that they can be abused) that it's not an issue?
  #2419  
Old 05-18-2020, 12:57 PM
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Speaking only from anecdotal personal experience: I used to be a occasional-to-frequent binge drinker, and my wife is a severe alcoholic with a bit over two years of sobriety now. Neither of us has had any issues with marijuana. We have both tried it in the past, and don't feel any urge to use it as a "replacement" for alcohol.
  #2420  
Old 05-18-2020, 02:39 PM
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COVID-19 has driven all thoughts of this strip from my mind, lol. When this thread popped up I was "oh, yeah! QC!"
  #2421  
Old 05-18-2020, 04:28 PM
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From other forums, I gather that the author generally seems to be writing from experience on this topic, having given up alcohol, tried marijuana and had a bad trip, but finally convinced to try it again, and it now being something he does socially. So, at the very least, he doesn't find it a problem.
  #2422  
Old 05-19-2020, 10:55 AM
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So last week, Claire passed her test, and they had a party to celebrate. She didn't want to make Faye uncomfortable by having it at a bar, so they went to Coffee of Doom and had a weed party.
I wouldn't call it a "weed party". As far as I can tell, only Tai and Claire are actually smoking. But yeah, I don't think "addictive substances" is Faye's trigger, it's booze specifically.
  #2423  
Old 05-20-2020, 06:54 PM
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COVID-19 has driven all thoughts of this strip from my mind, lol. When this thread popped up I was "oh, yeah! QC!"
This happened to me with Oglaf. I forget about it for weeks. On the plus side, I get to read 5 or 6 strips in a row.

QC, however, is part of my morning ritual.
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  #2424  
Old 05-21-2020, 04:38 AM
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This happened to me with Oglaf. I forget about it for weeks. On the plus side, I get to read 5 or 6 strips in a row.

QC, however, is part of my morning ritual.
Happened to me with Scenes from a Multiverse (which appears to be stuck in the Zones of Adorable, so I haven't been missing a lot.)
  #2425  
Old 05-21-2020, 07:17 AM
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This happened to me with Oglaf. I forget about it for weeks. On the plus side, I get to read 5 or 6 strips in a row.

QC, however, is part of my morning ritual.
With Oglaf, this always happens at the start of the year, because they're the only one I follow that take a Christmas holiday. Otherwise, my morning always consists of QC and the 3 S'es - Schlock, SDMB and Something Positive. Although SP has gone into intermittency.
  #2426  
Old 05-21-2020, 03:00 PM
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I don't forget Oglaf because I use the RSS feed to remind me via email. I originally thought it was an irregular comic like OotS, and I always do that with them. When I realized it releases every Sunday, I enjoyed it enough not to be a problem.

I did forget my dailies (including MWF or TTS) for a bit while sick until I got a computer set up in my room with my webcomic bookmarks. All it takes is for me to wonder about one of them to then jump through them all. Except, for some reason, xkcd which I seem to miss for as much as a week before checking in.

QC is on top of Reddit for me, so the only way I miss that one is if I don't log into Reddit--something I only ever don't do on mobile, because all the mobile versions suck.
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