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  #151  
Old 01-23-2019, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Penfeather View Post
Everyone knows its called Symbology.
I call it Nameology.
  #152  
Old 01-24-2019, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Crafter_Man View Post
There's evidence On Top of Spaghetti, which was published in 1962, is actually a parody of The Pizza Song, which was released in 1961 by Dick Biondi. The Pizza Song, in turn, was a parody of On Top of Old Smokey.

If this is accurate, then On Top of Spaghetti is a parody of a parody, and I further wonder if this is the only case of a parody of a parody.
The Battle of New Orleans was more of a novelty song than a parody but there was a parody called The Battle of Kookamonga

More of a tribute than a parody but there's a Bugs Bunny cartoon that uses Spike Jones Hawaiian War Chant which is another parody that's more well known than the original.
  #153  
Old 01-29-2019, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by erysichthon View Post
Here's a list of over 100 covers of MacArthur Park.

I love Dave Barry, but his notorious "worst song" poll is largely responsible for the myth that MacArthur Park is an obscure, unpopular song. It isn't and it never was.
I don't think I've heard it presented unironically since about 1974. And then only because there was a cat on WJW radio in Cleveland named MacArthur and he used it as the theme song for his talk show. With intentional irony, IIRC.
  #154  
Old 01-29-2019, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Lamia View Post
Those were at least remembered by people who studied Gothic literature, but (according to Wikipedia) some of the other novels mentioned in Northanger Abbey -- like Castle of Wolfenbach...
Ah, the original first-person shooter in Gothic Literature. I recall the game slowing way down when Matilda reloaded her flintlocks in real time. Eliza Parsons had a long career, publishing Castle of Wolfenbach in 1793 and Creating a Worksheet in Excel 2002 more than two centuries later.

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Even as a first grader watching them on prime time, I always thought The Flintstones were a ripoff of The Honeymooners. Enough that I'd get mad and ask grownups why that was legal.
It was even more obvious when the lost tapes reappeared. Every last one of them, IIRC, corresponded to a Flintstones episode, down to the dialog.

Last edited by dropzone; 01-29-2019 at 05:41 PM.
  #155  
Old 01-29-2019, 09:41 PM
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Betty Boop is a lot more famous than Helen Kane, the 20s vaudeville singer with the baby-doll flapper look, high breathy voice, and the boop-boop-a-doop catchphrase.
  #156  
Old 01-29-2019, 09:49 PM
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Spaceballs. Have the young kids these days even heard of Star Wars?

I've seen old interviews where Hetfield said that Metallica is basically the two Heads, Diamond and Motor, smooshed together.

Last edited by Drunky Smurf; 01-29-2019 at 09:52 PM.
  #157  
Old 01-31-2019, 09:26 AM
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I image many people associate "Oh, the humanity" with WKRP's turkey drop and not the Hindenberg disaster. Ditto "As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly" and not GWTW's "...I will never be hungry again."
  #158  
Old 02-01-2019, 05:59 PM
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How many people know the poem Casabianca?


Okay, and how many know:

The boy stood on the burning deck
His heart was all a-quiver
He gave a cough, his leg fell off
And floated down the river.


or one of 100 other versions?
  #159  
Old 02-04-2019, 08:40 AM
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Yogi Bear vs. Yogi Berra. And if you believe the similarity in names was a coincidence, I will sell you a bridge.
  #160  
Old 05-07-2020, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by kaylasdad99 View Post
The screenplay was based on a novel by Arthur Hailey, in fact, who later went on to write the novel Airport.
Yes, so I assumed Airplane was a parody of Airport. I'd never heard of Zero Hour back then.
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  #161  
Old 05-07-2020, 03:12 PM
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This surely counts. Even those of us who have read Fraser have surely no more than skimmed Hughes.

Except that I'm not sure I'd describe Fraser as a "parody" of Hughes. The Flashman novels are more of an "anti-riff" on him rather than a detailed parody. Fraser was running with elements of Hughes, but, more importantly, was satirising other elements of Victorian culture. Hughes was only the starting point.
I read Tom Brown once, but it's dated and boring to a American. However, I have reread and own most Flashman books.

The first Flashman book is more of the parody, after that, nope.

Last edited by DrDeth; 05-07-2020 at 03:13 PM.
  #162  
Old 05-07-2020, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Rhythmdvl View Post
By the way, if you haven't seen the side-by-side Zero Hour/Airplane! comparison it's worth the watch---you'll appreciate Airplane! on a whole new level!
That was great, thank you!
  #163  
Old 05-07-2020, 03:54 PM
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What bugs me is that that this scene is very often used by wags by substituting the original subtitles to ones used to carry some parodic humor about another subject. So much so that most people know that scene only as a stand-alone clip, and not that it's part of a great film. When told of the film, they're completely indifferent.
Actually, I became aware of the movie from those clips, and was prompted to watch it because of them. Yes, it's great. Particularly chilling is Goebbels and his wife murdering their six children before committing suicide.
  #164  
Old 05-07-2020, 03:57 PM
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And note, what we think of as a parody isnt always a true parody. I give several levels or types:

Pastiche: This is a loving tribute to the original. Solar Pons is a pastiche of Sherlock Holmes.

Parody: this makes fun or- in either a gentle or save way- the original.

Travesty: This takes the original and changes it is a way that would be horrific to the original author: The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen makes a travesty of H Rider Haggards hero.Wicked: The Life and Times of the Wicked Witch of the West is a travesty of Wizard of Oz. Nicer word than "travesty" is "revisionist"

Ripoff: purely for money, some travesties may be ripoffs. Does it give credit to the original?

Now, none of the characters in Watchmen are original- and no credit- iirc- is give to the originals. Does that make Watchman a Pastiche, a Parody or a Travesty?
  #165  
Old 05-08-2020, 04:35 AM
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Originally Posted by DrDeth View Post
Now, none of the characters in Watchmen are original
Yes, they are. The original impetus was to use the Charlton characters, but the Watchmen characters morphed enough from those that they were original characters by the time the comic was published, not just pastiches (in as much as any comic character has been original since the 40s). And everyone was quite open about that process, so accusations of "no credit" are unfounded, IMO.
  #166  
Old 05-08-2020, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by MrDibble View Post
Yes, they are. The original impetus was to use the Charlton characters, but the Watchmen characters morphed enough from those that they were original characters by the time the comic was published, not just pastiches (in as much as any comic character has been original since the 40s). And everyone was quite open about that process, so accusations of "no credit" are unfounded, IMO.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watchmen
Moore based Rorschach on Ditko's creation Mr. A;[27] Ditko's Charlton character The Question also served as a template for creating Rorschach.[15] ... Nite Owl was based on the Ted Kord version of the Blue Beetle. P


"everyone was quite open about that process"- so the Watchmen comics explained that?
  #167  
Old 05-08-2020, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by DrDeth View Post
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watchmen
Moore based Rorschach on Ditko's creation Mr. A;[27] Ditko's Charlton character The Question also served as a template for creating Rorschach.[15] ... Nite Owl was based on the Ted Kord version of the Blue Beetle. P


"everyone was quite open about that process"- so the Watchmen comics explained that?
"based ... on". "served as a template". "was based on"

Gosh, that sounds exactly like what I said.

And by "open", I mean no-one has ever denied the foundation of the Charlton characters. And there was enough talk about it in the fandom at the time. Not a big secret.

Quote:
He said, “Can you change the characters around and come up with some new ones?” At first I wasn’t sure whether that would work, but when Dave and I got together and started just planning these things out, it all really snapped into place and worked fine. I’m much happier now doing it with original characters.
My emphasis

But your notion that the first issue should have contained some kind of giant holo-foil "The part of Mr A is now played by Rorschach" disclaimer is laughable.

Ha. There, see, I laughed.

Last edited by MrDibble; 05-08-2020 at 03:07 PM.
  #168  
Old 05-08-2020, 03:19 PM
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This might be a generational thing, but I can tell you I knew "Duck Dodgers in the 24˝th Century" long before I'd heard of Buck Rogers.

I don't think this has been mentioned yet (but I only skimmed most of the thread), but IIRC Weird Al's "White and Nerdy" is more well known that "Ridin'".
  #169  
Old 05-08-2020, 03:30 PM
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How about "that great parody" that George Harrison did of "He's So Fine"?
  #170  
Old 05-08-2020, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by MrDibble View Post
"based ... on". "served as a template". "was based on"

Gosh, that sounds exactly like what I said.

And by "open", I mean no-one has ever denied the foundation of the Charlton characters. And there was enough talk about it in the fandom at the time. Not a big secret.

My emphasis

But your notion that the first issue should have contained some kind of giant holo-foil "The part of Mr A is now played by Rorschach" disclaimer is laughable.

Ha. There, see, I laughed.
You didnt use any of those terms or words. So, it doesnt sound at all like what you said.

If you are stealing someone's work, it's not enuf to "have it discussed in fandom". Trust me, my stuff is stolen all the time, I know about copyright and plagiarism.

Note that the original Captain Marvel was considered close enough to Superman that a copyright suit was filed and Fawcett stopped using him and sold him to DC.

Captain Marvel (aka Shazam) isnt Superman, they are fairly different. But the point was that Marvel was based on Supes- and that won the case (settled out of court, Fawcett conceded).

So, yeah, Rorschach isnt exactly Mr. A or the Question- but he is based upon them- that would be enough to lose, based upon the Fawcett suit. Obviously since DC owned both watchman and those characters, they werent gonna sue. But some decent regard for others people creative efforts demands at least a mention- but of course Moore has no decent regard for anyone else but himself and his inflated ego.
  #171  
Old 05-08-2020, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by DrDeth View Post
...So, yeah, Rorschach isnt exactly Mr. A or the Question- but he is based upon them- that would be enough to lose, based upon the Fawcett suit. Obviously since DC owned both watchman and those characters, they werent gonna sue....
Nitpick: DC has never owned Mr. A.

Last edited by Dropo; 05-08-2020 at 03:43 PM.
  #172  
Old 05-08-2020, 04:36 PM
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The comic market was tanking so Fawcett got out of the business. They may have ended up winning the suit if they had continued to fight it, it just wasn't worth continuing.
  #173  
Old 05-09-2020, 02:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDeth View Post
You didnt use any of those terms or words. So, it doesnt sound at all like what you said.
Me: The original impetus was...
You (quoting Wiki): Based on...
Also You: Didn't use the same words, not the same.
Me: SMFH.
Quote:
If you are stealing someone's work
If you are begging the question...
Quote:
So, yeah, Rorschach isnt exactly Mr. A or the Question- but he is based upon them- that would be enough to lose, based upon the Fawcett suit.
No. You have a complete misunderstanding of the Fawcett suit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiki
Judge Hand did not find that the character of Captain Marvel itself was an infringement,
The key point in the Fawcett suit was that some Captain Marvel stories were actual copies of Superman stories.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ibid.
specific stories or super feats could be infringements, and this would have to be determined in a retrial
Said retrial never happened, BTW, so drawing any conclusions about what is and isn't considered ripping-off in comics from it is risible.

Heh. There, I risled.
Quote:
Obviously since DC owned both watchman and those characters, they werent gonna sue.
Ditko retains rights to Mr A. He's never sued Moore for plagiarism. And if he did, it would be laughed out of court. Because everyone's been quite open about the whole process of Watchmen's character creation.
Quote:
Moore has no decent regard for anyone else but himself and his inflated ego.
This isn't really about the minutiae of copyright, is it?
  #174  
Old 05-09-2020, 06:32 AM
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Learn something new daily. Wow, I thought for sure Airplane! was based on Runway Zero-Eight.

Aha, it was, sort of. That is, the plot of Zero Hour is the same exact storyline as Runway Zero-Eight. Must be a story behind that one. It's all Arthur Hailey. Did he just keep writing the same damn story over and over again? I mean, Airport is also highly similar.
  #175  
Old 05-16-2020, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by sciurophobic View Post
How many people have seen Zero Hour?
Do we need to if we've seen Airplane!?
  #176  
Old 05-16-2020, 08:21 PM
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This might be a generational thing, but I can tell you I knew "Duck Dodgers in the 24˝th Century" long before I'd heard of Buck Rogers.

I don't think this has been mentioned yet (but I only skimmed most of the thread), but IIRC Weird Al's "White and Nerdy" is more well known that "Ridin'".
I'm going to agree with the earlier poster that, while many of Al's songs are very well known (and done), I don't know that any of them are more well-known than the originals or at least the originals are not obscure/forgotten.

"Ridin" was a #1 single and Grammy winner and the phrase "Ridin Dirty" is something that is well-known and used today. I have a couple 30-something white co-workers who used that exact phrase in a Facebook post yesterday. While Chamillionaire is somewhat of a 1-hit wonder , though in my circles he was known for his earlier music with Paul Wall and he did have a 2nd Gold album and a couple more charting/certified singles, he is now well-known in the business world for ventures like his investment in Maker Studios and association with VCs.

I'm a 40 year-old white guy who at one point probably knew "Eat It" as well as the original, but I'd never say it reached anywhere close to the original. And during the release of "Ridin" I was an underground hip-hop snob, so I only was exposed to it unintentionally.
  #177  
Old 05-19-2020, 02:43 PM
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I love Dave Barry, but his notorious "worst song" poll is largely responsible for the myth that MacArthur Park is an obscure, unpopular song. It isn't and it never was.
I know I'm replying to a years-old post here, but what the hell:

Besides being a bad song, there was only one criterion for eligibility for Dave Barry's "worst songs" polls: it had to have gotten enough airplay to be remembered. Which put a limit on how obscure it could be, and also meant that regardless of how many people thought the song sucked even at the time, enough people liked it that it kept on getting played.
  #178  
Old 05-20-2020, 12:57 AM
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Can a faithless adaptation be considered a parody? Thinking about Starship Troopers here...
  #179  
Old 05-20-2020, 05:48 AM
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Can a faithless adaptation be considered a parody? Thinking about Starship Troopers here...
I would say no. It's just satire.

If parts of it are a parody, they'd be a parody of wartime propaganda films.
  #180  
Old 05-21-2020, 09:55 PM
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In the movie "Half Baked", Jim Brewers character quits his job with a Tom Cruise line from "Jerry Maguire":
" I'm not gonna do what everyone thinks I'm gonna do......"

At the time the movie was made, anyone would have gotten the reference. Today, "Half Baked" is a classic, and "Jerry Maguire"s popularity has not held on. I doubt many folks remember what the line was from, even if they saw JM back in 1996
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