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  #51  
Old 11-02-2016, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by YogSothoth View Post
In any normal election year, this would be reported on 24/7 on all the networks. 2016 is weird. This simply confirms what we've all suspected about Trump, but for some reason Clinton's email non-scandal is juicier? I really wonder about the intelligence of some of these TV station managers, why run yet another email story instead of this explosive Trump revelation?
Did you read this thread or just the OP?
  #52  
Old 11-02-2016, 12:50 PM
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Frankenstein Monster and Merneith, I think we can all agree that the articles and other information that is publicly available has been short or vague on technical details. I think that it is important to remember that it is said this is a mail server. It behaves very oddly for a publicly available mail server (this probably won't work from home for most people, most ISPs block port 25):

Code:
~$ telnet 66.216.133.29 25
Trying 66.216.133.29...
Connected to 66.216.133.29.
Escape character is '^]'.
521 lvpmta14.lstrk.net does not accept mail from you (XXX.XXX.XXX.XXX)
Connection closed by foreign host.
(Obfuscation mine)

I submitted nothing in that connection, no host identifier, no HELO or EHLO, no carriage return, nuttin. It at least exposed the host name it identifies itself by (which incidentally resolves to a different IP) in exchange.

As a sometime security admin who's administered literally thousands of servers, that's odd goddamn behavior for a publicly available mail server. From a security standpoint, if you're not going to accept mail from me, why allow me to connect to the port at all and open yourself up to a potential exploit or denial of service? Just block it at the firewall and don't let them waste your resources opening the connection in the first place. Let them waste their resources opening connections you are discarding without replying. If they're big boys, or have hired them, they can just overload your connection if all they want to do is destroy you, but have the cut-off of what destroys you set as high as possible. If I weren't worried about becoming part of the story (and almost certain more clever monkeys than I have started), I'd start trying to find out how poorly this box is set up just based on that.

Now, that doesn't mean that it's nefarious, but if it didn't act this way before people started asking about the server: it implies that the operators got paranoid, but aren't particularly careful or smart.

I will say that the authors saying the server was located in Trump Tower is wishful thinking. It might, but through the same technologies that make that possible, it could also be sitting in my living room in Texas (but I'm smart enough to put it in decent data center). However, it seems obvious that this server was associated with a Trump-controlled domain at some point.

But either way, since the info we're getting is either incomplete or slightly incoherent, you might have to do your own research to make any headway on this story. Plus, even after they dumbed it down, it might contain too much inside baseball to be decipherable to the general public.

Last edited by scabpicker; 11-02-2016 at 12:52 PM.
  #53  
Old 11-02-2016, 01:16 PM
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Trump is a Spammer!

That would cost him support, bigly.
  #54  
Old 11-02-2016, 01:17 PM
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Null route him!
  #55  
Old 11-02-2016, 01:25 PM
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Good info scabpicker, and I have to say it certainly looks odd, but if a Russian interest wanted to secretly communicate with people in the Trump organisation this is a highly incompetent way to do it, setting up an open mail server that only accepts connections from certain IP addresses. Thats like painting a target on yourself.

Now while the Trump organisation may well be incompetent, I would expect the Russians to be more careful. Literally they would have been much better off using a freely available strong encryption solution like Photon Mail or Signal. Millions of people use these systems, so traffic analysis is difficult, and the math is solid, there is reason to believe that even the NSA cannot break these, but even if they can, the task of picking out the correct signals to decrypt out of the millions of people that use these services would be much harder than just monitoring a mail server with a fixed IP, packet sniffing it and throwing brute force at whatever you capture.

Last edited by coremelt; 11-02-2016 at 01:27 PM.
  #56  
Old 11-02-2016, 01:28 PM
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Hell, if you really want it to be secret, onion-route it.
  #57  
Old 11-02-2016, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by scabpicker View Post
Frankenstein Monster and Merneith, I think we can all agree that the articles and other information that is publicly available has been short or vague on technical details. I think that it is important to remember that it is said this is a mail server. It behaves very oddly for a publicly available mail server (this probably won't work from home for most people, most ISPs block port 25):

Code:
~$ telnet 66.216.133.29 25
Trying 66.216.133.29...
Connected to 66.216.133.29.
Escape character is '^]'.
521 lvpmta14.lstrk.net does not accept mail from you (XXX.XXX.XXX.XXX)
Connection closed by foreign host.
(Obfuscation mine)

I submitted nothing in that connection, no host identifier, no HELO or EHLO, no carriage return, nuttin. It at least exposed the host name it identifies itself by (which incidentally resolves to a different IP) in exchange.

As a sometime security admin who's administered literally thousands of servers, that's odd goddamn behavior for a publicly available mail server. From a security standpoint, if you're not going to accept mail from me, why allow me to connect to the port at all and open yourself up to a potential exploit or denial of service? Just block it at the firewall and don't let them waste your resources opening the connection in the first place. Let them waste their resources opening connections you are discarding without replying. If they're big boys, or have hired them, they can just overload your connection if all they want to do is destroy you, but have the cut-off of what destroys you set as high as possible. If I weren't worried about becoming part of the story (and almost certain more clever monkeys than I have started), I'd start trying to find out how poorly this box is set up just based on that.

Now, that doesn't mean that it's nefarious, but if it didn't act this way before people started asking about the server: it implies that the operators got paranoid, but aren't particularly careful or smart.

I will say that the authors saying the server was located in Trump Tower is wishful thinking. It might, but through the same technologies that make that possible, it could also be sitting in my living room in Texas (but I'm smart enough to put it in decent data center). However, it seems obvious that this server was associated with a Trump-controlled domain at some point.

But either way, since the info we're getting is either incomplete or slightly incoherent, you might have to do your own research to make any headway on this story. Plus, even after they dumbed it down, it might contain too much inside baseball to be decipherable to the general public.
It's true that I have not admined thousands of servers. I'm willing to let this go until more info appears. That said - I do think this warrants more investigation and I also think it would be reasonable for the FBI to pursue this with, say, half the concern they've put into other server-related investigations in which they did not just shrug and say, "oh, well, I'm sure this weird server has an innocent explanation."

I was hoping that Ars Tech would say something more about this, too.
  #58  
Old 11-02-2016, 02:25 PM
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It behaves very oddly for a publicly available mail server (this probably won't work from home for most people, most ISPs block port 25):
I don't think it behaves oddly at all. I think it shows that that server is smartly and securely configured and that Listrak is a well run, competent operation.

What I think happens is that the SMTP server performs a reverse DNS lookup on the incoming connection and then perhaps further validations (e.g. DNS MX lookup, existence of SPF) on the incoming domain.

Those are smart security checks, very easy to code in the SMTP server but not so straightforward, if not impossible as firewall rules AFAIK.

I tried that telnet thing too, from two "plain" IP addresses (no PTR records), and I got the same results you did.

Unfortunately I don't have shell access to any properly configured outgoing email server so I can't try it out realistically. Anybody else?
  #59  
Old 11-02-2016, 04:05 PM
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I was hoping that Ars Tech would say something more about this, too.
I scanned through the election thread and found some brief notice taken of it, including one poster mentioning that he had recommended it to the editors. However, it seems like it might be too partisan for the ars news pages. They put up controversial content but it looks like they shy off partisanship. And Foer, the Slate author, looks like he has a toupée hair up his ass, so that kind of compromises the original story a bit.
  #60  
Old 11-02-2016, 04:50 PM
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I'm gonna throw one more thing out here. Didn't notice it right away (since it's such a target rich environment) but this really sets off my alarm bells. As in, somebody is really constructing cherry picked bits of data and using it to goad people into the scandal. Really pulling our leg, with malice aforethought - on purpose. Criminal intent. Dirty deeds, done dirt cheap!

Quote:
Originally Posted by The scandalmonger
Are you sure the Trump-Email.com domain really belongs to the Trump Organization?

We have 100% confidence. You can verify the complete whois record by going to the Godaddy.com website and clicking on WHOIS. While whois records can be forged, we also judge authenticity based on the resources used by each domain name. A very detailed analysis has been made of thousands of Trump Organization domain names, vendors and hosting resources, confirming that this domain without question belongs in the same group.

Excerpt from Trump-Email.com whois record:
Code:
Registrant Name: Trump Orgainzation
Registrant Organization: Trump Orgainzation
Registrant Street: 725 Fifth Avenue
Registrant City: New York
Registrant State/Province: New York Registrant State/Province: New York
Registrant Postal Code: 10022
Registrant Country: US Registrant Country: US
Registrant Phone: +1.2128322000
Now I am the first one to note that whois info is not significant. Nobody puts accurate info in there, since it's meaningless and it's a real spam and scam magnet, among other reasons. I own a domain myself, and this it what I do. (These days, my registrar even does it for me automatically.)

Except...

There is one little piece of whois info that actually is important and significant.

Coincidentally, it's just the little piece that was left out by the scandalmonger above and that proves the domain does NOT belong to Trump!

Due to an amazingly poorly thought out ICANN rule, you have to put in valid e-mail addresses into your whois records, and actually read those e-mails sent there. Otherwise, you risk losing your registration. (Almost happened to me.)

Now let's have a look at the complete whois record for "Donald Trump":

Code:
Domain Name: TRUMP-EMAIL.COM
Registry Domain ID: 1565681481_DOMAIN_COM-VRSN
Registrar WHOIS Server: whois.godaddy.com
Registrar URL: http://www.godaddy.com
Update Date: 2016-06-29T14:27:44Z
Creation Date: 2009-08-14T20:06:37Z
Registrar Registration Expiration Date: 2017-07-01T03:59:59Z
Registrar: GoDaddy.com, LLC
Registrar IANA ID: 146
Registrar Abuse Contact Email: abuse@godaddy.com
Registrar Abuse Contact Phone: +1.4806242505
Domain Status: clientTransferProhibited http://www.icann.org/epp#clientTransferProhibited
Domain Status: clientUpdateProhibited http://www.icann.org/epp#clientUpdateProhibited
Domain Status: clientRenewProhibited http://www.icann.org/epp#clientRenewProhibited
Domain Status: clientDeleteProhibited http://www.icann.org/epp#clientDeleteProhibited
Registry Registrant ID: Not Available From Registry
Registrant Name: Trump Orgainzation
Registrant Organization: Trump Orgainzation
Registrant Street: 725 Fifth Avenue
Registrant City: New York
Registrant State/Province: New York
Registrant Postal Code: 10022
Registrant Country: US
Registrant Phone: +1.2128322000
Registrant Phone Ext:
Registrant Fax:
Registrant Fax Ext:
Registrant Email: emcmullin@cendyn.com
Registry Admin ID: Not Available From Registry
Admin Name: Emily McMullin
Admin Organization: Cendyn
Admin Street: 1515 N Federal Highway
Admin Street: Suite 419
Admin City: Boca Raton
Admin State/Province: Florida
Admin Postal Code: 33432
Admin Country: US
Admin Phone: (561) 750-3173
Admin Phone Ext:
Admin Fax:
Admin Fax Ext:
Admin Email: ssl.admin@cendyn.com
Registry Tech ID: Not Available From Registry
Tech Name: Emily McMullin
Tech Organization: Cendyn
Tech Street: 1515 N. Federal Highway
Tech Street: Suite 419
Tech City: Boca Raton
Tech State/Province: Florida
Tech Postal Code: 33432
Tech Country: US
Tech Phone: +1.5617503173
Tech Phone Ext:
Tech Fax:
Tech Fax Ext:
Tech Email: ssl.admin@cendyn.com
Name Server: NS1.CDCSERVICES.COM
Name Server: NS2.CDCSERVICES.COM
Name Server: NS3.CDCSERVICES.COM
DNSSEC: unsigned
URL of the ICANN WHOIS Data Problem Reporting System: http://wdprs.internic.net/
>>> Last update of WHOIS database: 2016-11-01T10:00:00Z <<<
See the bolded e-mail addresses?

Now what would be the more obvious conclusion as to who controls the registration?

Dirty deeds and they're done dirt cheap... Dirty deeds and they're done dirt cheap...
  #61  
Old 11-02-2016, 08:29 PM
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I don't think it behaves oddly at all. I think it shows that that server is smartly and securely configured and that Listrak is a well run, competent operation.
No, it's a dumb, amateurish config. If you're going to block a service from other computers, there's no reason to let them access the port in the first place. Restrict at the application after the firewall as an additional check, but the firewall is your first place to restrict access.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankenstein Monster View Post
What I think happens is that the SMTP server performs a reverse DNS lookup on the incoming connection and then perhaps further validations (e.g. DNS MX lookup, existence of SPF) on the incoming domain.

Those are smart security checks, very easy to code in the SMTP server but not so straightforward, if not impossible as firewall rules AFAIK.
It's not doing any of those checks, from what I can see. We didn't get to where it would know any of the information to even do an MX or SPF or what's normally accepted as a complete PTR lookup, because we hadn't hit the HELO/EHLO exchange, much less the From: exchange. The box I was connecting from is a properly configured mail server, anyway. This server appears to 86 the connection based on the connecting IP only. That implies that it has a list of IPs that are allowed to connect to it, and I'm not on it.

Last edited by scabpicker; 11-02-2016 at 08:31 PM.
  #62  
Old 11-03-2016, 12:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Frankenstein Monster View Post
... Now let's have a look at the complete whois record for "Donald Trump":

Code:
...
Registrant Fax Ext:
Registrant Email: emcmullin@cendyn.com
...
See the bolded e-mail addresses?
...
Wait, what the fuck? Evan McMullin? The guy who might win Utah's electors?

odd

Last edited by eschereal; 11-03-2016 at 12:33 AM.
  #63  
Old 11-03-2016, 12:47 AM
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Except that the name of the admin is listed two lines down: "Emily McMullin" who apparently lives in Boca Raton, which is where Cendyn is located.

I have no opinion if Cendyn was abusing the Trump name in the service of spam or if they are fronting for Trump's people but not seeing how the email address name means a dang thing in any way whatsoever.
  #64  
Old 11-03-2016, 12:56 AM
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It's quite a common name -- there are 11 Emily McMullins on LinkedIn -- this particular one is VP of interactive design & development at Cendyn, which appears to be an Internet marketing company. I doubt she's any relation to the Utah dude.
  #65  
Old 11-03-2016, 12:57 AM
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Wait, what the fuck? Evan McMullin? The guy who might win Utah's electors?

odd
Well, the name says "Emily McMullin", but it might be one of Evan's moms or something, I suppose.
  #66  
Old 11-03-2016, 04:00 AM
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No, it's a dumb, amateurish config.
You're right, I spoke too soon. On second thought, I agree with your opinion on this config. Still doesn't mean this is a super secret chatserver between Trump and Putin to exchange shirtless pics and atom bomb plans (carefully disguised to look like an amateurish email server!)

Also, this Emily McMullin?

Last edited by Frankenstein Monster; 11-03-2016 at 04:05 AM.
  #67  
Old 11-03-2016, 04:12 AM
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I have no opinion if Cendyn was abusing the Trump name in the service of spam or if they are fronting for Trump's people but not seeing how the email address name means a dang thing in any way whatsoever.
I assume you understood my explanation of why the e-mail is important? My point was that here's a guy/gal blatantly trying to mislead us, not somebody innocently concluding Trump has something to do with these servers.
  #68  
Old 11-03-2016, 04:47 AM
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The scammer could have said, "Look people! Trump! It says Trump right here! Well actually it says Cendyn, but Cendyn = Trump! Connect the dot, people!"

Instead (s)he carefully manipulated out the Cendyn angle.

It's almost as if this was made to be debunked. I'm starting to feel silly already.

Last edited by Frankenstein Monster; 11-03-2016 at 04:51 AM.
  #69  
Old 11-03-2016, 10:28 AM
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You're right, I spoke too soon. On second thought, I agree with your opinion on this config. Still doesn't mean this is a super secret chatserver between Trump and Putin to exchange shirtless pics and atom bomb plans (carefully disguised to look like an amateurish email server!)
Oh yeah, it doesn't look nefarious, just not a very thoughtful config. I am largely of the opinion that since the server's reported behavior changed as soon as it was asked about, it's IP and/or domain were then assigned to a different server. So, we're not looking at the server that was involved in the original behavior. If that config makes sense for anyone, it's a spammer.

Which brings me to whether the Cendyn (who appear to be bulk mailers*, if not spammers) angle means much. It doesn't mean much for or against the supposed story. The e-mail address that is in the registration doesn't signify that the person actually manages the DNS for or owns the domain. For all we know, the registration was used for the email campaign, then handed over after it was complete. Plus, I've seen lots of completely useless contact info in whois lookups.


*Generally defined as a spammer who will stop if asked.

Last edited by scabpicker; 11-03-2016 at 10:31 AM.
  #70  
Old 11-03-2016, 11:45 AM
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It's almost as if this was made to be debunked. I'm starting to feel silly already.
Or intended to neuter criticism a la the Dan Rather papers. Get people worked up about a potential link to Russia, then show that that link is false et voila - any other accusations of links to Russia can be presumed to be false no matter what the actual evidence.

[FTR the above is idle speculation, not a thing I am claiming is definitely true.]
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Old 11-03-2016, 12:05 PM
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Or intended to neuter criticism a la the Dan Rather papers. Get people worked up about a potential link to Russia, then show that that link is false et voila - any other accusations of links to Russia can be presumed to be false no matter what the actual evidence.

[FTR the above is idle speculation, not a thing I am claiming is definitely true.]
I think the simpler, and likelier explanation, is simply that libs got worked up over nothing.
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Old 11-03-2016, 01:36 PM
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I think the simpler, and likelier explanation, is simply that libs got worked up over nothing.
Maybe we should hold eight Congressional investigations into it. Just to be sure.
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Old 05-28-2017, 06:57 PM
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Bump...

I was thinking about this server tonight, decided to read what the Straight Dope had to say about it, and I'm glad I did.

This thread is completely fascinating from a viewpoint of six months later. Any of the original posters care to update their thoughts on this story?

I was wondering about the possibility that this server is what Kushner needed to replace when he asked the Russians to set up a covert communications channel. When he realized he and Pops were going to office at the White House, other arrangements had to be made to maintain a secure channel to Russia, now that the Trump Tower server was no longer available.

I mean, Jared wanted to set up the covert channel in December. What's to say he wasn't trying to replace something he was going to lose?

Pure speculation, but this story has gotten a lot more important since the WaPo revelations this past Friday.

Thoughts?

Last edited by JohnT; 05-28-2017 at 07:01 PM.
  #74  
Old 05-28-2017, 07:16 PM
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I have little doubt that this is part of the story. One of the most interesting parts, is that there was a third party on this little communication channel, Spectrum Health. Owned by the Devos family.
  #75  
Old 05-28-2017, 07:24 PM
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Spectrum Health. Owned by the Devos family.
I don't think this is true. They're major donors, to the point of having the children's hospital named after matriarch Helen, but I don't think they own it.
  #76  
Old 05-28-2017, 07:26 PM
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I have little doubt that this is part of the story. One of the most interesting parts, is that there was a third party on this little communication channel, Spectrum Health. Owned by the Devos family.
It does make you wonder. We do have families in this country who seem to aspire to oligarchy, if they're not already there. They may feel more akin to Russian oligarchs than to the American people or system.
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  #77  
Old 05-28-2017, 07:27 PM
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"Spectrum is a medical facility chain led by Dick DeVos, the husband of Betsy DeVos, who was appointed by Trump as U.S. education secretary."

I mean, these amazing coincidences are pretty amazing, no? I mean, the alternative to this being nefarious is that there is an absolutely unexplained connection between Russia and Trump Tower that also happens to have an absolutely unexplained link to the family of the completely unqualified woman named to the cabinet.

Last edited by Fiveyearlurker; 05-28-2017 at 07:30 PM.
  #78  
Old 05-28-2017, 09:51 PM
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Bump...

I was thinking about this server tonight, decided to read what the Straight Dope had to say about it, and I'm glad I did.

This thread is completely fascinating from a viewpoint of six months later. Any of the original posters care to update their thoughts on this story?

I was wondering about the possibility that this server is what Kushner needed to replace when he asked the Russians to set up a covert communications channel. When he realized he and Pops were going to office at the White House, other arrangements had to be made to maintain a secure channel to Russia, now that the Trump Tower server was no longer available.

I mean, Jared wanted to set up the covert channel in December. What's to say he wasn't trying to replace something he was going to lose?

Pure speculation, but this story has gotten a lot more important since the WaPo revelations this past Friday.

Thoughts?
It's been important all along, but the FBI wanted to downplay it. They're still looking into it. Here's an article from March -

Sources: FBI investigation continues into 'odd' computer link between Russian bank and Trump Organization

Quote:
Originally Posted by CNN article linked above
Federal investigators and computer scientists continue to examine whether there was a computer server connection between the Trump Organization and a Russian bank, sources close to the investigation tell CNN.

Questions about the possible connection were widely dismissed four months ago. But the FBI's investigation remains open, the sources said, and is in the hands of the FBI's counterintelligence team -- the same one looking into Russia's suspected interference in the 2016 election.

One U.S. official said investigators find the server relationship "odd" and are not ignoring it. But the official said there is still more work for the FBI to do. Investigators have not yet determined whether a connection would be significant.

The server issue surfaced again this weekend, mentioned in a Breitbart article that, according to a White House official, sparked President Trump's series of tweets accusing investigators of tapping his phone.

So this is maybe what set Donald off on his accusations that Obama wire tapped him.
I thought about updating the thread when I read this, but I was too demoralized at the time. But in retrospect, Donald's accusations really sort of got the public ball rolling on his Russian connections.




As for the de Vos connection - don't forget that Betsy's brother Erik Prince also was trying to set up a back channel for Donald and Vlad via the Seychelles.

I don't chat with my Mom as often as those two chat with each other, and she lives here.
  #79  
Old 05-28-2017, 10:33 PM
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"Spectrum is a medical facility chain led by Dick DeVos, the husband of Betsy DeVos, who was appointed by Trump as U.S. education secretary."
That is false. He previously sat on the Board of Directors, and was even Chair for a while, but Spectrum Health is not "led by Dick DeVos."

Spectrum Health's current board.

Now the amount of money donated by the DeVos family, everyone knows who pulls the strings in Grand Rapids, but for CNN to say he runs the place is incorrect.
  #80  
Old 05-28-2017, 11:25 PM
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Your own link shows that Dick DeVos is still listed on the board of Spectrum Health as an Emeritus Trustee. He's a permanent board member, even if he's currently not the official chairman. (And he only stepped down recently, since he was elected chair in September 2015 for a two year term).

Here's an article about that -

http://www.grbj.com/articles/83491-h...board-officers

Quote:
Originally Posted by that article above DeVos' position w/ Spectrum

DeVos’ history with Spectrum

DeVos joined the system board in 2010.

He is an emeritus member of both the Spectrum Health Foundation Board of Trustees and Helen DeVos Children’s Hospital Foundation Board of Trustees, where he also served as chair.

Richard Breon, president and CEO of Spectrum Health, said DeVos “has been a valuable and committed leader on multiple boards for Spectrum Health.”
I'll agree that it's a stretch to say that DeVos personally runs Spectrum but there's no denying that DeVos is a major power at Spectrum. His connection to the Trump admin via his wife's cabinet position (and her brother's attempt to connect Vlad & Donald) just makes the corruption smell a little sharper.
  #81  
Old 05-29-2017, 08:16 AM
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Your own link shows that Dick DeVos is still listed on the board of Spectrum Health as an Emeritus Trustee. He's a permanent board member, even if he's currently not the official chairman. (And he only stepped down recently, since he was elected chair in September 2015 for a two year term).

Here's an article about that -

http://www.grbj.com/articles/83491-h...board-officers



I'll agree that it's a stretch to say that DeVos personally runs Spectrum but there's no denying that DeVos is a major power at Spectrum. His connection to the Trump admin via his wife's cabinet position (and her brother's attempt to connect Vlad & Donald) just makes the corruption smell a little sharper.
Like I said, the DeVos family pulls a lot of strings and has a lot of influence with their money, but my point was: to say that he "led" Spectrum health is incorrect (even as board chair) and that the DeVos family "owned" Spectrum is also incorrect. That's all. No need to stretch stories for this family and administration, when there's so much batshit insane stuff right there in the truth. Fighting ignorance and all that.

Last edited by Happy Lendervedder; 05-29-2017 at 08:16 AM.
  #82  
Old 05-29-2017, 09:46 PM
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The point, for the purposes of this thread is that Trump Tower's mystery server, like Donald Trump's friends, the DeVos family, is directly connected to Spectrum Health.
  #83  
Old 05-30-2017, 08:48 AM
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Just goes to show you. When you have a reputation for high-mindedness, for honesty in your private and public life, for transparency in your relationships....people might hear a story like this and easily shrug it off or expect a good reason for it. When your whole life has been devoted to building an edifice of lies, thuggery, bullying, skulduggery, illegal business dealings and failure to keep your promises....well, then, something like this is just more fuel for the funeral byre, or, at least, the march to the 2018 polls. Thrump, and most of the Republicans who support him, are only worthy of being trampled into the ground.
  #84  
Old 05-30-2017, 04:21 PM
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There is no Trump Tower server. Never was. Nobody ever said there was.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Merneith View Post
It's been important all along, but the FBI wanted to downplay it. They're still looking into it. Here's an article from March -

Sources: FBI investigation continues into 'odd' computer link between Russian bank and Trump Organization
Good article by CNN. Note it correctly refrains from saying the server was in the Trump Tower (it notes the server was located in a data center in Pennsylvania). Stupid detail I know, but it still grates me as a nerd when people add these blatantly wrong facts to their conspiracies.

Quote:
From May 4 until September 23, the Russian bank looked up the address to this Trump corporate server 2,820 times -- more lookups than the Trump server received from any other source.

As noted, Alfa Bank alone represents 80% of the lookups, according to these leaked internet records.

Far back in second place, with 714 such lookups, was a company called Spectrum Health.

Spectrum is a medical facility chain led by Dick DeVos, the husband of Betsy DeVos, who was appointed by Trump as U.S. education secretary.

Together, Alfa and Spectrum accounted for 99% of the lookups.
There is no possible logical explanation for this. My conclusion: somebody planted those faked DNS queries (spoofed IP addresses and all) in order to try and manufacture a Trump scandal.

Last edited by Frankenstein Monster; 05-30-2017 at 04:22 PM.
  #85  
Old 05-30-2017, 09:49 PM
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Yeah, that's probably it. And when Erik Prince was in the Seychelles trying to set up a back channel for Vlad & Donald, they probably just wanted to swap Pokemon.
  #86  
Old 05-30-2017, 09:59 PM
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The point, for the purposes of this thread is that Trump Tower's mystery server, like Donald Trump's friends, the DeVos family, is directly connected to Spectrum Health.
You don't think it's significant that CNN exaggerated Mr. DeVos' role?
  #87  
Old 05-30-2017, 11:14 PM
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No, because I don't think CNN really exaggerated Dick DeVos' role, either in Spectrum, where's he's a permanent trustee board member (with a hospital named after his mom,) or in Donald's repeated attempts to evade US intelligence by establishing private party lines to Vladimir Putin.

I don't think it's an exaggeration on CNN's part to call De Vos a leader of Spectrum Health, given that I quoted the CEO of Spectrum describing De Vos as a "valuable and committed leader" on the occasion of his (De Vos') election as chairman of the board of trustees.
  #88  
Old 02-20-2018, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Frankenstein Monster View Post
Good article by CNN. Note it correctly refrains from saying the server was in the Trump Tower (it notes the server was located in a data center in Pennsylvania). Stupid detail I know, but it still grates me as a nerd when people add these blatantly wrong facts to their conspiracies.



There is no possible logical explanation for this. My conclusion: somebody planted those faked DNS queries (spoofed IP addresses and all) in order to try and manufacture a Trump scandal.
The son-in-law of the founder of Alfa bank was arrested by Mueller's team today for, in part, not turning over September 2016 emails to the investigators.

I am sure this is purely coincidental to the events detailed in this thread, many of which also occurred in September 2016.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/20/polit...tes/index.html
  #89  
Old 02-21-2018, 06:42 PM
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Plenty of scandal among Trump and his pals, but the fake Trump Tower secret server ain't one.

(I read your link. It was about the 2012 Scadden report fallout, which is a Manafort scandal. Not much to do with Trump, as such, except for his poor judgment in hiring Manafort.)

I'm not taking a position on Trump's scandals. I'm taking a position on people presenting plainly false statements about tech that I understand.

It now seems the basic facts of this scandal were not even true.

Turns out those two secret machines, Alfa and Spectrum Health, were not the only ones making the DNS requests after all, as had been stated (and which I thought was not possible). Plus, the requests happened continuously over a long period of time, not on a few specific occasions.

This site shows some purported DNS logs. I took a quick peek with awk|sort|uniq showing that one set indeed has only Alfa and Spectrum, but another one has those two along with others. (Which is the correct one?) In all cases they show continuous traffic over a four month period.

This account says another researcher found more than 19 requesters. It also mentions and debunks some further plainly false scandal embellishments, like the Spectrum machine being a Tor node (hey, who made that up?) Plus they have actual samples of spam sent with the offending Trump domain name.

There was no secret communication between Trump and Alfa Bank. It was open communication with many parties, resulting from Trump's email contractor sending out ordinary business email spam to contacts all over the world.

Whatever one believes about Trump scandals, this one's fake.
  #90  
Old 02-21-2018, 07:05 PM
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I am quite fine in conceding your overall point of your expertise and technical analysis of the server(s), but the fact remains that neither of us can attest to what the intentions were of the people who (a) set it/them up, or (b) sent emails. Even the Intercept gets this, however obliquely:

Quote:
Could it be that Donald Trump used one of his shoddy empire’s spam marketing machines, one with his last name built right into the domain name, to secretly collaborate with a Moscow bank? Sure. At this moment, there’s literally no way to disprove that. But there’s also literally no way to prove it, and such a grand claim carries a high burden of proof.
(Obliquely: Such a grand claim that this server has NOTHING to do with Trump/Russia also carries a high burden of proof. Which, in fact, is the standard of this Board.)

Admitting that Trump is a walking scandal which affects his pals and then declaring this server had absolutely nothing to do with Trump's "issues" with Russia is, well, inconsistent. At best we can both agree that, frankly, not enough is yet known to either damn or exonerate and that this merely shows the toxicity of being, however remotely, associated with Donald J Trump.
  #91  
Old 02-22-2018, 07:21 AM
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....declaring this server had absolutely nothing to do with Trump's "issues" with Russia....
Okay, I see where I declared that.

You're right, I got carried away. We don't have much info about what that Trump server did. We have no communication logs or disk contents or list of running processes. We have no proof that it WASN'T a secret Trump/Russia communications channel.

What we have is people deliberately distorting what little info there is, and making blatantly false claims about it.
  #92  
Old 02-22-2018, 08:23 AM
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Well, saying the smoke in Trump tower may be tied to the conflagration in the White House isn't exactly "blatantly making a false claim."
  #93  
Old 02-22-2018, 09:57 AM
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I meant the blatantly false statements about what some technical detail or another means ("That's a Tor exit node!"). I can't find the original .xyz mirror anymore to find examples, but anyway whole thing has now turned out to be one giant false claim ("Eighty-seven percent of the DNS lookups involved the two Alfa Bank servers!") so it's really just one big scam.
  #94  
Old 04-28-2020, 06:32 PM
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In followup:

1) The FBI does seem to have legitimately ruled out the Trump server connection, according to Horowitz.
2) Accusations against Alfa Bank were first brought up directly by Hillary Clinton's people and given directly to Steele to investigate.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/n...lusion-in-2016

3) That all said, Mueller did confirm that Eric Prince and Steve Bannon had some weird, mystery meeting with one of the heads of Alfa in the Seychelles.
  #95  
Old 04-29-2020, 08:04 AM
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Meh, in reality it is the chicanery from the Republicans that tells me that a lot of what they claim about Clinton is just politics, there might be some truth to their accusations but their captain Ahab behavior makes a lot of people to support Clinton in the end.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...=.45256a9e26cb

A comic in Something Positive said it better, ""Between 2 "evils", I choose the competent one.""

Trump does not even get close to competent people, and that is another reason why one should not vote for him, his cabinet will be the stuff of nightmares.
logically wouldn't you want to choose the incompetent one so that LESS evil actually gets accomplished?
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