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  #201  
Old 10-16-2018, 02:34 PM
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the really liberal people are never going to like who the Dems nominate , last time most were for Sanders. So it's no surprise they complained about Obama and Clintons. But all of 3 of them were left of center in my book.

In 2016 our local liberal weekly paper endorsed Clinton in the primary and some acted like they had endorsed Satan.
  #202  
Old 10-16-2018, 02:41 PM
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the really liberal people are never going to like who the Dems nominate , last time most were for Sanders. So it's no surprise they complained about Obama and Clintons. But all of 3 of them were left of center in my book.
.
Yes, they were moderate liberals. So indeed, left of center. But on a scale of 1-10,they were 4's and Trump is a 9.

So the Dems are running more moderate candidates than the GOP is.
  #203  
Old 10-16-2018, 02:59 PM
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I'm calling it. (Colorado has the 2nd-fastest growing economy in the Country.)
John Hickenlooper for the Big Job.
Kamala Harris as his V.P.

That's it, the final answer. The next two years will be anticlimax. Remember you heard it here ... second. (I was Ninja'ed by ElvisL1ves.)

@ Mods, close the thread please.

Sounds good to me.
  #204  
Old 10-16-2018, 05:02 PM
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Julian Castro is likely to run in 2020. Former HUD secretary Also was San Antonio mayor

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/former-...wrong-in-2016/
  #205  
Old 10-16-2018, 08:35 PM
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If I were running against Trump and had to debate him, literally the first thing I would say - my opening statement - would be "Donald, how does Melania feel about the fact that you fuck other women?"

This is the time to be audacious. Any Democratic nominee who literally did that, and other things like it, would destroy the election.

What would actually happen if a candidate said that during a debate? Would the moderators shut it down or something? What are they going to do, say "we're going to cancel this whole debate because of that?" The crowd would be howling with laughter (and boos), it would be a madhouse, but what would they actually do?

We need the kind of candidate who would consider all of that...and then say it anyway.
  #206  
Old 10-16-2018, 08:44 PM
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If I were running against Trump and had to debate him, literally the first thing I would say - my opening statement - would be "Donald, how does Melania feel about the fact that you fuck other women?"
You would lose lots of votes if you used "fuck".
  #207  
Old 10-16-2018, 08:58 PM
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Bullshit.

There isn't a single person in this country - who is not already in the bag for Trump - who would see that exchange in the debate and think, "well, I'm not voting for this guy because he said 'fuck.'" That's not how it is. All the old books have been thrown out here. There are no rules anymore. The country would eat that shit up. It would fire up Democratic voters like nobody's business.
  #208  
Old 10-17-2018, 08:42 AM
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Trump didn't lose any votes for his language.
  #209  
Old 10-17-2018, 10:42 AM
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Instead of "fuck", just say "make love" using sarcastic air quotes. A more effective insult and avoids the bannable word.
  #210  
Old 10-17-2018, 10:48 AM
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If I were running against Trump and had to debate him, literally the first thing I would say - my opening statement - would be "Donald, how does Melania feel about the fact that you fuck other women?"

.
She was asked about his affairs the other day and did not deny them. She said she had more important issues to worry about.

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  #211  
Old 10-17-2018, 11:13 AM
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She was asked about his affairs the other day and did not deny them. She said she had more important issues to worry about.
Like how to get around the pre-nup.
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  #212  
Old 10-17-2018, 11:13 AM
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That's very different than putting Trump on the spot with the question RIGHT off the bat at the beginning of the first presidential debate with the entire country watching.

I concede that it could backfire though if Trump's response was "how do you feel about the fact that your wife fucks other men?"

Which is the kind of thing he would do, actually.
  #213  
Old 10-18-2018, 02:39 PM
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Not Hickenlooper. I disqualified him when he and John Kasich began kicking around the idea of a Kasich/Hickenlooper joint ticket. If Kasich has become a "moderate Republican," then the battle is already lost. (Check his record.) That Hickenlooper would even consider such a joint run disqualifies him in my view based on his bad judgment.

I want to see a Mark Warner/Tammy Duckworth ticket. They're both young and have actual government experience. Both could be safely sacrificed from the Senate by 2020 and replaced by Democrats. They know how things get done. They understand the importance of diplomacy in a global world.

Warner is wealthy, but he has voted against his own personal best interests as a senator (tax bill, e.g.). Duckworth brings the military cred. Plus they're both simply stellar individuals, IMHO.
Cite? I remember hearing people talk about such a ticket, but I never heard that Hickenlooper himself ever expressed strong interest in running. If so, I agree that should disqualify him.
  #214  
Old 10-18-2018, 02:46 PM
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they would probably find a way to blame Duckworth for her combat wounds.

That's what worked when they ran against Max Cleland for the GA senate seat. He lost both legs above the knees in Vietnam. They said it was his own fault.
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Old 10-18-2018, 02:57 PM
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I'm calling it. (Colorado has the 2nd-fastest growing economy in the Country.)
John Hickenlooper for the Big Job.
Kamala Harris as his V.P.

That's it, the final answer. The next two years will be anticlimax. Remember you heard it here ... second. (I was Ninja'ed by ElvisL1ves.)

@ Mods, close the thread please.
I'm liking this ticket, though I would prefer it to be the other way around. Thinking in terms of getting racial, gender, and ideological balance.

Here is 538's list of people who appear to be running for President at the current time (which isn't to say that most of them won't see which way the wind is blowing and drop out before ever formally announcing). Despite the fact that it seems ridiculously early, it takes a long time to ramp up a Presidential campaign these days, so I think it's almost certain that the eventual nominee will be on this list:

Lawyer Michael Avenatti; South Bend, Indiana, Mayor Pete Buttigieg; Montana Gov. Steve Bullock; former Vice President Joe Biden; New Jersey Sen. Cory Booker; former Secretary of Housing and Urban Development Julian Castro; Colorado Gov. John Hickenlooper; Los Angeles Mayor Eric Garcetti; New York Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand; California Sen. Kamala Harris; Former Attorney General Eric Holder; former New Orleans Mayor Mitch Landrieu; Sen. Jeff Merkley of Oregon; former Maryland Gov. Martin O’Malley; Rep. Seth Moulton of Massachusetts; Rep. Tim Ryan of Ohio; Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders; Rep. Eric Swalwell of California; businessman and pro-impeachment activist Tom Steyer; Massachusetts Sen. Elizabeth Warren; Sen. Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota, Washington Gov. Jay Inslee, former Virginia Gov. Terry McAuliffe, Sen. Brian Schatz of Hawaii

Removing everyone whom I don't see a reason to take seriously based on resume:

Montana Gov. Steve Bullock; former Vice President Joe Biden; New Jersey Sen. Cory Booker;Colorado Gov. John Hickenlooper; New York Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand; California Sen. Kamala Harris; Sen. Jeff Merkley of Oregon; former Maryland Gov. Martin O’Malley; Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders; Massachusetts Sen. Elizabeth Warren; Sen. Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota, Washington Gov. Jay Inslee, former Virginia Gov. Terry McAuliffe, Sen. Brian Schatz of Hawaii

Biden, Sanders, and Warren are too old. Merkley represents the progressive wing, and I don't think they particularly want a white guy who isn't Bernie Sanders. McAuliffe is too closely linked to the Clintons. Gillibrand I think is going to be too easy to paint as insincere based on how much her positions have evolved. I don't know anything about O'Malley, Inslee, or Schatz, and O'Malley already ran once.

Montana Gov. Steve Bullock; New Jersey Sen. Cory Booker;Colorado Gov. John Hickenlooper; California Sen. Kamala Harris; Sen. Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota,

Either Bullock/Harris or Hickenlooper/Harris would be a good combo (or the other way around). Likewise Klobuchar/Booker or vice versa. Of course, if Harris is at the top of the ticket, there's no shortage of moderate white guys to pair her with.

Tammy Duckworth would be a good VP choice for Sanders or Merkley, but with anyone else you're going to have either two women, two minorities, or two moderates on the ticket.

Last edited by Thing Fish; 10-18-2018 at 02:59 PM.
  #216  
Old 10-18-2018, 03:02 PM
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The TV debates normally only allow people who do above a certain level in polls. But I wonder if they might put a few extras for entertainment like Avenatti.

Also recall in 2016 the GOP had the "kids table" debate because they had too many running. I think only Carly Fiorina got moved up to the main debates.
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Old 10-18-2018, 04:35 PM
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Back when I was in Montana, one of the gubernatorial debates was on campus, so I figured what the heck, why not go. It was the first debate, before the culling, so there were a couple of Republicans, a couple of Democrats, and about five stark raving loonies. It was entertaining, to be sure.
  #218  
Old 10-18-2018, 04:57 PM
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Cite? I remember hearing people talk about such a ticket, but I never heard that Hickenlooper himself ever expressed strong interest in running. If so, I agree that should disqualify him.
First reference: ABC News on George Stephanopoulos Report, February 25, 2018.

Another reference: Business Insider, April 2, 2018.

More teasing: CNN, August 25, 2018.

And on the same day -- finally -- Hickenlooper dispels the notion. The Hill, August 25, 2018.

I won't argue that Kasich always seemed more keen than Hickenlooper. But Hickenlooper fueled the speculation and did not affirmatively deny the claim for 6 months. Based on that, I believe he was seriously considering it, only waiting to see if there was any discernible support for such an idea.

Not the guy I want at the top of any ticket. <Trump voice>We'll see what happens, though.</Trump voice>

Last edited by Aspenglow; 10-18-2018 at 04:58 PM.
  #219  
Old 10-18-2018, 05:16 PM
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Aspenglow, your last link is misdated. Hickenlooper shot the idea down on August 25, 2017.
  #220  
Old 10-18-2018, 05:18 PM
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Aspenglow, your last link is misdated. Hickenlooper shot the idea down on August 25, 2017.
You're correct. In fact, all dates are incorrect. But the point still stands.

Last edited by Aspenglow; 10-18-2018 at 05:19 PM.
  #221  
Old 10-18-2018, 08:41 PM
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Biden, Sanders, and Warren are too old.
Either Bullock/Harris or Hickenlooper/Harris would be a good combo (or the other way around). Likewise Klobuchar/Booker or vice versa. Of course, if Harris is at the top of the ticket, there's no shortage of moderate white guys to pair her with.

Tammy Duckworth would be a good VP choice for Sanders or Merkley, but with anyone else you're going to have either two women, two minorities, or two moderates on the ticket.
No, they are not.

Harris doesn't have the chops or the state to be Prez. Coming from CA gets you nuthin. You need to come from a Southern or Rust belt state. Colorado is no biggie but it can be a swing state. The critical states are: Colorado, Florida, Iowa, Michigan, Minnesota, Ohio, Nevada, New Hampshire, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, Virginia, and Wisconsin . Any southern state is also good.

And why Harris? Can you name anything she has done? Any big speeches or bills? Are you in favor just because of her sex, race, and political leanings?


And Harris is super anti-gun, which will cost her the moderate gun owner crowd.

Last edited by DrDeth; 10-18-2018 at 08:42 PM.
  #222  
Old 10-18-2018, 08:55 PM
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The Dems have a big problem in that the type of candidate they need to actually win is someone like Bill Clinton - a southern governor with a track record of relative moderation from the center left. Someone like Phil Bredesen would work.

The problem is that the Democrats have moved hard left, and a person like that would never get the nomination. So I expect the Democrats to put up someone like Kamala Harris or Cory Booker or Elizabeth Warren - and lose again.

Going after Trump's character is not going to work, since there's not a single Republican out there who isn't aware of Trump's faults. They don't care. You guys keep dredging up scandal after scandal, and it makes no impact on the electorate at all. Trump's character issues have been fully discounted. Unless you can find a dead body, it won't matter.

Democrats have to get back to politics and win by convincing the public that they will be better stewards of the economy. That's what people actually care about. Show them why you are a better choice if you want their vote. Screaming at Republicans, chasing them out of restaraunts, clawing at the Supreme Court doors - these are loser moves that are alienating everyone who isn't already in your base.
  #223  
Old 10-18-2018, 09:27 PM
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No, they are not.

Harris doesn't have the chops or the state to be Prez. Coming from CA gets you nuthin. You need to come from a Southern or Rust belt state. Colorado is no biggie but it can be a swing state. The critical states are: Colorado, Florida, Iowa, Michigan, Minnesota, Ohio, Nevada, New Hampshire, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, Virginia, and Wisconsin . Any southern state is also good.

And why Harris? Can you name anything she has done? Any big speeches or bills? Are you in favor just because of her sex, race, and political leanings?


And Harris is super anti-gun, which will cost her the moderate gun owner crowd.
So, assuming the list I cited above is correct, we're down to Hickenlooper and Klobuchar. There's a bumper sticker for you. The home state thing is overrated. The last two Democratic nominees were from big blue States, and Trump won without carrying New York.

I like Harris because of her political leanings, and to be perfectly honest I do think it's important for the sake of turning out the base that the ticket not be a couple of old white guys. I also like Booker. I would like Sanders, Merkley or Warren too, but I judge them as too old and/or worse general election candidates than Harris.

And I also think some ideological balance would be good for the ticket. So if you want a centrist white guy for the top of the ticket, which a lot of people here seem to, Harris checks all the balance boxes.
  #224  
Old 10-18-2018, 09:39 PM
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So, assuming the list I cited above is correct, we're down to Hickenlooper and Klobuchar. There's a bumper sticker for you. The home state thing is overrated. The last two Democratic nominees were from big blue States, and Trump won without carrying New York.

I like Harris because of her political leanings, and to be perfectly honest I do think it's important for the sake of turning out the base that the ticket not be a couple of old white guys. I also like Booker. I would like Sanders, Merkley or Warren too, but I judge them as too old and/or worse general election candidates than Harris.

And I also think some ideological balance would be good for the ticket. So if you want a centrist white guy for the top of the ticket, which a lot of people here seem to, Harris checks all the balance boxes.
I would accept Harris as veep, but not for Prez.

Also Duckworth.

Biden is not too old.
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Old 10-18-2018, 09:50 PM
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T

The problem is that the Democrats have moved hard left, and a person like that would never get the nomination. So I expect the Democrats to put up someone like Kamala Harris or Cory Booker or Elizabeth Warren - and lose again.

Going after Trump's character is not going to work, since there's not a single Republican out there who isn't aware of Trump's faults. They don't care. You guys keep dredging up scandal after scandal, and it makes no impact on the electorate at all. Trump's character issues have been fully discounted. Unless you can find a dead body, it won't matter.
We nominated Hillary Clinton, a moderate liberal. So, no the Dems have not moved hard left.

Yes, Kamala Harris or Elizabeth Warren - will result in a Dem loss.

Yes, it will. Sure it wont change his core voter.

But it can change the millions of Independents, progressives, and such that voted 3rd party or stayed home last election. It can also change the votes of a few moderate GOpers. But all the Dems need is for the Independents, progressives, and such... and the Dem moderate stalwarts- to vote dem. The Dems dont need to move a single GOP voter.
  #226  
Old 10-18-2018, 10:10 PM
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I would accept Harris as veep, but not for Prez.

Also Duckworth.

Biden is not too old.
Saying that someone is acceptable as VP but not as President seems odd...you know the VP's job description, right? Or do you just mean electability-wise? And if Biden isn't too old, then Sanders isn't, either, so Sanders-Duckworth for the win! But they are.
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Old 10-18-2018, 10:22 PM
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Besides, Harris is a former State Attorney General. Who knows how to deal with guys like Trump better than a prosecutor?
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Old 10-18-2018, 10:44 PM
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Saying that someone is acceptable as VP but not as President seems odd...you know the VP's job description, right? Or do you just mean electability-wise? And if Biden isn't too old, then Sanders isn't, either, so Sanders-Duckworth for the win! But they are.
Because Harris has not enough experience. Why do you like her- be specific.

Sanders is too leftist and lost the last time. Many Dems are also unhappy with him as he didnt try to curbs his fans and also took too long to concede.

Sanders is a decent guy, and got what he wanted on the platform.
  #229  
Old 10-19-2018, 06:18 AM
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Harris doesn't have the chops or the state to be Prez.
Yeah, well, look who does.

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And Harris is super anti-gun, which will cost her the moderate gun owner crowd.
There is no such thing.
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Old 10-19-2018, 08:50 AM
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I respectfully ask Thing Fish to make one emendation.

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...
Here is 538's list of people who appear to be running for President ...:

... former Secretary of Housing and Urban Development Julian Castro; ... New York Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand; California Sen. Kamala Harris; ... Sen. Jeff Merkley of Oregon; ... Sen. Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota, ..., Sen. Brian Schatz of Hawaii

Removing everyone whom I don't see a reason to take seriously based on resume:
...
I've shown six candidates, five of whom survive to your "take seriously" list.
* Castro -- big-city Mayor , Cabinet secretary.
* Harris - state Attorney General; Senator
* Gillibrand -- attorney for Philip Morris; legislator
* Merkley -- Oregon NGO's, legislator
* Klobuchar -- county Attorney, U.S. Senator
* Schatz -- Lt. Governor of small very-blue state; appointed Senator

I'm not overly impressed with "Senator" (Recall that JFK, BHO and Harding were the only modern-era Senators to be elected to the Big Job) but will agree that Harris clearly has the 2nd-best resume in the above list.

The very best resume? (And why don't you take him seriously??) Julian Castro. By far. Big-city Mayor trumps State Atty Gen. Active Cabinet Secretary trumps Senator. There were some other ex-Mayors on the list. Any others from one of the seven largest cities in these United States?

Julian Castro. He is running for President. But who for the 2nd name?

Biden-Castro : would be outstanding if Biden weren't too old.
Castro-Harris : might be perfect but will the racists think both are "ethnic"?
Hickenlooper-Castro : who gets the top spot?

I'm not sure of the exact pairing. But these are the names to look at: Castro, Biden, Harris, maybe Hickenlooper. Cross everyone else off the list, please.
  #231  
Old 10-19-2018, 11:12 AM
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I'm not overly impressed with "Senator" (Recall that JFK, BHO and Harding were the only modern-era Senators to be elected to the Big Job) but will agree that Harris clearly has the 2nd-best resume in the above list.

The very best resume? (And why don't you take him seriously??) Julian Castro. By far. Big-city Mayor trumps State Atty Gen. Active Cabinet Secretary trumps Senator.
Hang on: I’ll grant that, like you just said, “Senator” has been in short supply on the modern-era list of Elected-To-The-Big-Job folks.

But compared to Cabinet Secretary? Just how many of those folks would appear on a similar modern-era Elected-To-The-Big-Job list?

(And, look, fair enough on leaving out Truman and LBJ and Nixon, since their time in the Senate wasn’t the point — but it’s still there, as a credential, in the modern era. When, in the modern era, has a Cabinet Secretary stint been that?)
  #232  
Old 10-19-2018, 12:57 PM
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Yeah, well, look who does.

There is no such thing.


Yes there is, like me, for example.
  #233  
Old 10-19-2018, 12:58 PM
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Julian Castro. He is running for President. But who for the 2nd name?

Biden-Castro : would be outstanding if Biden weren't too old.
Castro-Harris : might be perfect but will the racists think both are "ethnic"?
Hickenlooper-Castro : who gets the top spot?

I'm not sure of the exact pairing. But these are the names to look at: Castro, Biden, Harris, maybe Hickenlooper. Cross everyone else off the list, please.
Castro would be fine.

I dont think Biden is too old- IF paired with a younger Veep.

Again- why bring up Harris? What, exactly has she done?
  #234  
Old 10-19-2018, 04:17 PM
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... Again- why bring up Harris? What, exactly has she done?
Kamala Harris was District Attorney of the City and County of San Francisco for 7 years, and Attorney General of the largest state for 6 years. U.S. Senator may be a more prestigious job than Attorney General of California, but if you think it's a more challenging job let me just shake my head.

I'm not knowledgeable to judge the job Ms. Harris did as a 13-year top prosecutor. I know there was some controversy. Like many in law enforcement, Ms. Harris isn't fond of guns; I guess that disqualifies her in the eyes of many.

As for Cabinet secretaries being "promoted" to President, I guess Taft and Hoover are the only 20th-century examples. Castro, BTW, has a twin brother in the news for asking for an intelligence probe into Jared Kushner and the possible naming of Khashoggi as Trump's enemy. Maybe vehement anti-Trumpism is a minus. (Maybe just having a twin brother is a drawback for some peculiar reason.)

And to be clear, my zeroing in on Castro, Harris, and Hickenlooper isn't due to any great infatuation. It's due to desperation: If not them, Who?
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  #235  
Old 10-19-2018, 04:24 PM
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Kamala Harris was District Attorney of the City and County of San Francisco for 7 years, and Attorney General of the largest state for 6 years. U.S. Senator may be a more prestigious job than Attorney General of California, but if you think it's a more challenging job let me just shake my head.

I'm not knowledgeable to judge the job Ms. Harris did as a 13-year top prosecutor. I know there was some controversy. Like many in law enforcement, Ms. Harris isn't fond of guns; I guess that disqualifies her in the eyes of many.
Well, I can tell you that Harris isnt all that popular even here in CA, even among Democrats. And she has done nothing of real note as AG or senator.

Her main qualifications seem to be:

1. Black
2. Female.
3. Great PR firm.

Not that she is terrible, mind you. As a Veep, to "balance the ticket" and get 4-8 years more experience, she could be just fine.


Actually most LEOs like guns- but only in their hands.
  #236  
Old 10-19-2018, 05:29 PM
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And to be clear, my zeroing in on Castro, Harris, and Hickenlooper isn't due to any great infatuation. It's due to desperation: If not them, Who?
Mike Bloomberg? Phil Bredesen? John Hickenlooper? Bill Nelson? All would have a much better chance than the people you mentioned.

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  #237  
Old 10-19-2018, 06:44 PM
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If Julian Castro runs, could we count on him to win Texas? If so, that would be a big plus for him.

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Well, I can tell you that Harris isnt all that popular even here in CA, even among Democrats. And she has done nothing of real note as AG or senator.

Her main qualifications seem to be:

1. Black
2. Female.
3. Great PR firm.

Not that she is terrible, mind you. As a Veep, to "balance the ticket" and get 4-8 years more experience, she could be just fine.
She seems slightly more charismatic than some of the other toutees. Anyway, all my suggested pairings with her at all, show her in the VP slot. And I don't want her as VP unless the #1 slot is taken by a white male. I'm not prejudiced but I think a large portion of voters are.

I just don't see who our knight in shining armor will be. America sure needs one now. Are we sure Admiral McRaven is out of the running?
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andros had more faith in an American jury than I had; and he was right. I'm happy to lose a bet and hope this trend continues.
  #238  
Old 10-19-2018, 06:57 PM
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Mike Bloomberg? Phil Bredesen? John Hickenlooper? Bill Nelson? All would have a much better chance than the people you mentioned.
I think Hickenlooper's chance is about equal to one of my mentionees.
I Googled the two names you mentioned that I'd never heard of. Googling "phil bredesen for president" gets just one real hit — a newspaper item from a Nashville newspaper in 2002 when Bredeson was a frisky 58 year-old. Bill Nelson may be a great guy, but he's even older than Bredeson.

Strong turn-out among young people is key to Democratic victory. Yes, they turned out for Bernie Sanders, but would they turn out for a moderate near-octogenerian?
  #239  
Old 10-19-2018, 07:31 PM
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Strong turn-out among young people is key to Democratic victory. Yes, they turned out for Bernie Sanders, but would they turn out for a moderate near-octogenerian?

They'd turn out for Biden- IF the party balanced him with a young progressive.

And i think that is out best best- a moderate/liberal white dude, from a southern or rust belt state= with a young, energetic, minority and/or female progressive.
  #240  
Old 10-22-2018, 12:36 PM
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I respectfully ask Thing Fish to make one emendation.



I've shown six candidates, five of whom survive to your "take seriously" list.
* Castro -- big-city Mayor , Cabinet secretary.
* Harris - state Attorney General; Senator
* Gillibrand -- attorney for Philip Morris; legislator
* Merkley -- Oregon NGO's, legislator
* Klobuchar -- county Attorney, U.S. Senator
* Schatz -- Lt. Governor of small very-blue state; appointed Senator

I'm not overly impressed with "Senator" (Recall that JFK, BHO and Harding were the only modern-era Senators to be elected to the Big Job) but will agree that Harris clearly has the 2nd-best resume in the above list.

The very best resume? (And why don't you take him seriously??) Julian Castro. By far. Big-city Mayor trumps State Atty Gen. Active Cabinet Secretary trumps Senator. There were some other ex-Mayors on the list. Any others from one of the seven largest cities in these United States?

Julian Castro. He is running for President. But who for the 2nd name?

Biden-Castro : would be outstanding if Biden weren't too old.
Castro-Harris : might be perfect but will the racists think both are "ethnic"?
Hickenlooper-Castro : who gets the top spot?

I'm not sure of the exact pairing. But these are the names to look at: Castro, Biden, Harris, maybe Hickenlooper. Cross everyone else off the list, please.
I mean, I'd be open to considering him (as well as LA Mayor Eric Garcetti, but historically "big city Mayor" hasn't been a launching pad to the Presidency. OTOH, the Dems are increasingly a party of urbanites, so maybe it's time that could change.
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Old 10-22-2018, 01:24 PM
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I'm not sure I like the idea of a mayor for President (at least, not without some other office in between). Sure, the larger cities like New York or LA are bigger than most states, and nobody blinks at a governor running. But those large cities are also very much unlike the rest of the country, and it would make it hard to portray such a candidate as caring about rural, or even smaller urban, issues.
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Old 10-22-2018, 03:36 PM
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I would also be worried that a big city mayor has a track record of corruption or dealing with corrupt people, because big cities in America seem to be cesspits of corruption.
  #243  
Old 10-22-2018, 04:08 PM
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"a noun, a verb and 9/11" AKA America's mayor Rudy G ran in 2012 and went nowhere.
  #244  
Old 10-22-2018, 07:07 PM
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I'm not sure I like the idea of a mayor for President (at least, not without some other office in between). Sure, the larger cities like New York or LA are bigger than most states, and nobody blinks at a governor running. But those large cities are also very much unlike the rest of the country, and it would make it hard to portray such a candidate as caring about rural, or even smaller urban, issues.
FTR, we're talking about a big-city mayor from Texas who was also Secretary of Housing and Urban Development. If the favorite-son status would sway Texas (would it? I dunno) it should be very tempting to run Castro.

Nobody's claiming that Julian Castro is the Messiah born again. I'm just looking for any alternative to Joe Biden whose 76th birthday is less than a month away.
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Old 10-22-2018, 07:23 PM
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And let me point out:

The first time I saw Dukakis debate Bush, I felt confident he would lose. Kerry also lacked "Presidential stage presence." In 2016, O'Malley, Webb, Kaine, JEB! — none of them looked remotely Presidential to me.
As long as I've been alive, the more charismatic candidate has won, every time!
In the other thread I posted links to YouTubes for those who wanted to listen to Julian Castro. Those touting Booker, Klobuchar, whoever? I don't seem them proudly showing off their candidates' charisma.
  #246  
Old 10-22-2018, 07:49 PM
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I want to see Mitch Landrieu, former mayor of New Orleans. He's a guy who cuts across cultural and racial barriers, and he has balls.
  #247  
Old 10-22-2018, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by septimus View Post
And let me point out:

The first time I saw Dukakis debate Bush, I felt confident he would lose. Kerry also lacked "Presidential stage presence." In 2016, O'Malley, Webb, Kaine, JEB! — none of them looked remotely Presidential to me.
As long as I've been alive, the more charismatic candidate has won, every time!
In the other thread I posted links to YouTubes for those who wanted to listen to Julian Castro. Those touting Booker, Klobuchar, whoever? I don't seem them proudly showing off their candidates' charisma.
Quick search for Kamala Harris on the stump ... found this from 2016 at the CA Democrats Convention, start at about 4:00 in. Yeah she's good, real good, on the stump. And proven in other contexts, able to think on her feet.

I'm really warming up to her.

Just compared her speech to Julian Castro's speech at the 2012 convention. He's fine, but she's better. More relaxed. More ... real. And she comes off stronger.

But you are right - nominations and general elections are not won on the basis of resumes. They are won by those who can hit the chords that resonate with enough of the electorate, who have a vision they can express with believable passion.

Not hearing that level of charisma or toughness youtubing Hickenlooper or Bullock either.
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Old 10-22-2018, 08:18 PM
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Mitch Landrieu.

Trust me on this one.
  #249  
Old 10-22-2018, 08:19 PM
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Maybe a Kamala-Mitch ticket?
  #250  
Old 10-22-2018, 08:29 PM
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The Dems have a big problem in that the type of candidate they need to actually win is someone like Bill Clinton - a southern governor with a track record of relative moderation from the center left. Someone like Phil Bredesen would work.

The problem is that the Democrats have moved hard left, and a person like that would never get the nomination. So I expect the Democrats to put up someone like Kamala Harris or Cory Booker or Elizabeth Warren - and lose again.

Going after Trump's character is not going to work, since there's not a single Republican out there who isn't aware of Trump's faults. They don't care. You guys keep dredging up scandal after scandal, and it makes no impact on the electorate at all. Trump's character issues have been fully discounted. Unless you can find a dead body, it won't matter.

Democrats have to get back to politics and win by convincing the public that they will be better stewards of the economy. That's what people actually care about. Show them why you are a better choice if you want their vote. Screaming at Republicans, chasing them out of restaraunts, clawing at the Supreme Court doors - these are loser moves that are alienating everyone who isn't already in your base.
This is correct. This is how Trump's polemic works, because initially he divided the Republicans, but they rallied around him. The division is among the opposition: how do they respond to Trump? That is *the* question. Do they respond with a centrist white guy or a hard left woman/minority. The hard truth is that a hard left woman/minority guy might drive away white centrists and independents - and simply depress turnout among others.

People point out that Trump's approval rating is the lowest ever, and I say 'So what?' He won with the lowest approval rating ever. Hell, he won even though he lost the national vote. The hard reality is that Trump can win election after election after election with only a 40-45% approval rating. We're in a new age. About 10 or 20 years ago, party leaders were assured of at least - minimum 45-50% of the vote because people were loyal to parties. Not anymore.

Trump could have 40-45% approval, but then we'd have half of his opposition saying we should move to the center and half saying we should move to the hard left. Trump's 40-45% can beat a divided progressive front. That's why I opposed Bernie Sanders' protest campaign. All he did was divide the vote. And unfortunately, I think opposition is still divided.
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