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  #51  
Old 12-05-2019, 09:42 PM
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Actually, I can see one of the family members approaching Marta after the will-reading and saying "Look, by cutting us out entirely, Harlan's left us with nothing to lose, so we could drag this out for years through the court system. I suggest you take half of the cash and the home and a significant minority position in the publishing house, which Walt can continue to run. Divide up the rest among us and we'll sign whatever documents we need to give up any future claims. If Walt's right about movie and TV adaptations of Harlan's work being worth a lot of money down the road, the publishing house will be worth a lot more and perhaps we can negotiate to buy out your share in the future. Meantime, you'll have this house and about $30 million and you won't have to deal with us for several years at least. Or take the home and the cash and give us the publishing house, and we can go our separate ways right now."
In order to do that, one of the family members would have to see Marta as a real person, worth dealing with as an equal. It was very clear that none of them could conceive of her as anything more than a servant. They could no more engage with her rationally than they could bring Harlan back to life.

Besides which, all of them had gone in an instant from being comfortably wealthy to destitute. That's a real shock to the system when you're a rich white asshole. Ransom had a night to get used to it; he'd been warned that he was being cut out of the will anyway, and had a scheme in place. For the rest of them it was like falling out of a plane.
  #52  
Old 12-05-2019, 09:54 PM
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Well, Walt and Toni (the daughter-in-law) got some advance warning that they were being cut off. I don't recall if Linda had independent wealth (wasn't she a realtor or something?) but her cheating husband Morris was aware of the threat to cut him off from her wealth and by extension Harlan's.

But you're right that none of them (except maybe the liberal-arts granddaughter Katherine, and possibly not even her) saw Marta as anything more than an employee.
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  #53  
Old 12-05-2019, 10:30 PM
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But you're right that none of them (except maybe the liberal-arts granddaughter Katherine, and possibly not even her) saw Marta as anything more than an employee.
Katherine knew that she was supposed to see Marta as something other than a wage slave from "lesser stock" (my words), but *never really internalized it. She was a caricature of the liberal elite we had a thread about not too long ago. The problem wasnít so much that she was liberal, elite, or liberal and elite, but that she was a hypocrite who, in addition to being insulated from the true consequences of the rhetoric she put forth by social prejudices in her favor, also actively sought to extend her privilege when push came to shove.

*It's also possible she did internalize it and did see Marta as no less worthy than herself, but lacked the courage of her convictions. But then, lack of courage doesn't really explain how/why she (however reluctantly on the surface) gave up what she knew about Marta's mom to the rest of the family. So Iím going with "hypocrite" who somehow manages to sleep at night just by telling herself "Iím not a bad person, Iím just not as brave as some others."

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  #54  
Old 12-06-2019, 07:39 AM
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But Blanc says later that none of them knew how to read a toxicology report.
Yes, that's what I mean.

Everybody that cares believes Marta's story. No one involved has read and recognized the significance the report, including Ransom, but now he knows what it WILL say, because of Marta's private confession. Blanc is the first independent to understand what the report means - that Marta did not give a fatal OD.

If Marta did not give a fatal OD that means one of two things - she made a mistake the fatal night, and really did give the right bottle and got all crossed up in the panic, or she actually did pick the wrong bottle by label, but she picked the right bottle by content because of skill - she could tell just by the look which was which. Blanc proved that the second was true with the test in the study.

So if she accidentally picked the morphine bottle, but did not give an OD, that means somehow the actual contents of the bottles were switched. And who had access? Blanc knew everyone's story and where they said they were. The one that didn't fit was Ransom's.

Knowing that the tox report would show no morphine, Ransom had to switch gears and actually protect Marta instead of framing her. Blanc didn't learn that until after the slow speed car chase.

The original plan was Ransom would frame Marta for the "accidental" OD, whether is was ruled murder or negligence, either way she would not inherit. Ransom hired Blanc to "find the truth" and uncover Marta's "crime". When Marta confessed to Ransom that she actually made a mistake (and he knew she wasn't lying) he was sunk. It would be ruled a suicide, and Mart would inherit.

All these pieces were in the air, and the tox report was the final piece that made everything fit. To a mind like Blanc's, the whole puzzle solved itself right in front of him all at one. Like when Adrian Monk gets the final piece, and the smile comes over his face. they both know that THAT is the one true solution.
  #55  
Old 12-06-2019, 12:16 PM
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When Marta confessed to Ransom that she actually made a mistake (and he knew she wasn't lying) he was sunk. It would be ruled a suicide, and Mart would inherit.
While I agree that this is how it was presented (and appreciate your excellent summary of how Blanc figured it out), I'm now wondering about this part.

Wouldn't it be possible for the family to claim that Marta's confessed mix-up caused Harlan to commit suicide? That is, that her telling Harlan that he was about to die of an overdose caused him to kill himself. Even though she was wrong, I'm not sure there was any hard evidence that could show that the contents of the vials were switched rather than Marta just got the vials mixed up. So her negligence (twice, if you count not having the antidote) caused his death.

If Ransom just plays dumb and lawyers up I think there's still a chance he gets off, especially since the housekeeper ended up dying and couldn't finger him. And that the family gets the inheritance back through the slayer rule.

I suppose that's why Marta faking the housekeeper's survival was so critical - that's the moment Ransom knows he's well and truly fucked.
  #56  
Old 12-06-2019, 01:15 PM
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While I agree that this is how it was presented (and appreciate your excellent summary of how Blanc figured it out), I'm now wondering about this part.

Wouldn't it be possible for the family to claim that Marta's confessed mix-up caused Harlan to commit suicide? That is, that her telling Harlan that he was about to die of an overdose caused him to kill himself. Even though she was wrong, I'm not sure there was any hard evidence that could show that the contents of the vials were switched rather than Marta just got the vials mixed up. So her negligence (twice, if you count not having the antidote) caused his death.

If Ransom just plays dumb and lawyers up I think there's still a chance he gets off, especially since the housekeeper ended up dying and couldn't finger him. And that the family gets the inheritance back through the slayer rule.

I suppose that's why Marta faking the housekeeper's survival was so critical - that's the moment Ransom knows he's well and truly fucked.
Other than Ransom trying to stab Marta.

I like your point, and with enough money the family could drag probate out forever.
  #57  
Old 12-06-2019, 01:28 PM
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Other than Ransom trying to stab Marta.

I like your point, and with enough money the family could drag probate out forever.
But the only one of them who has money is Linda, because she has her own company.

Last edited by Rick Kitchen; 12-06-2019 at 01:28 PM.
  #58  
Old 12-06-2019, 02:16 PM
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ISTM that everyone thought it was (supposed to be) a big problem that the toxicology report, and later the lab, were destroyed and/or unavailable.


In real life, someone had to prepare said report and he or she could easily be located and deposed to determine what the report said. It would be possible, I suppose, that they might not remember if they'd done a lot of reports but it seems unlikely.
  #59  
Old 12-06-2019, 02:27 PM
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Are you willing to entertain a hypothetical question based on the movie? So at the end, Marta has $60 million but her mother is an undocumented alien. Is there anything that really good lawyers can do to allow her mother to stay in the US? Or would she have to leave the US, even if only for a short time?
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Old 12-06-2019, 02:39 PM
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Are you willing to entertain a hypothetical question based on the movie? So at the end, Marta has $60 million but her mother is an undocumented alien. Is there anything that really good lawyers can do to allow her mother to stay in the US? Or would she have to leave the US, even if only for a short time?
Well, with $60 million, Marta can set her mother up in luxury in her home country, be it Uruguay or Paraguay or Brazil or Mesopotamia or whatever. Marta's mom might get barred from the U.S. but can move to probably anywhere else on Earth and live in comfort.
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  #61  
Old 12-06-2019, 03:22 PM
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Well, Walt and Toni (the daughter-in-law) got some advance warning that they were being cut off. I don't recall if Linda had independent wealth (wasn't she a realtor or something?) but her cheating husband Morris was aware of the threat to cut him off from her wealth and by extension Harlan's.
Walt and Toni had been told that they weren't going to get to keep suckling at Harlan's teat, but I think they probably still thought they'd be comfortably taken care of once he died with their "fair share" of his estate. They were clearly shocked at the reading of the will, unlike Ransom who had been told flat out that he wasn't getting anything once Harlan died.

Linda did have her own successful real estate business, started with a million dollars of seed money from Harlan. It's unclear whether that was a loan that was paid back, but it does undermine a bit of the "self-made person" mystique that all of the sponging relatives seemed to promote.
  #62  
Old 12-07-2019, 01:03 PM
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- In the final interrogation scene with Ransom, Le Blanc went through a lot of business of removing his jacket, rolling up his sleeves and tucking in his tie. I felt for sure this was going to lead up to a demonstration where he would inject himself with the "wrong" drug to prove a point, though I hadn't quite pieced together how that would work. But then he reversed the process without an apparent point. Did I miss something here?
That was just to (barely) satisfy the standard stipulation that Daniel Craig puts in all his contracts that at some point during the movie he has to get partly or wholly undressed.
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  #63  
Old 12-07-2019, 04:17 PM
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The set design of the house reminded me of Sleuth...
One character says something to the effect of "Geez, the old guy lives in a CLUE board!"

Just saw it last night. Glad it was so much fun; I convinced the wife to go based on this thread. She was impressed by Craig, and also Johnny Storm (what's his real name? He's one of those Chrises...). She'd only seen him as Cap'n America.
  #64  
Old 12-07-2019, 07:52 PM
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It's unclear whether that was a loan that was paid back, but it does undermine a bit of the "self-made person" mystique that all of the sponging relatives seemed to promote.
Yes. Thatís the joke. I didnít literally laugh out loud the first time I heard one (and then another) of his children casually announce themselves as "self-made", but I came pretty close. There was a certain mirthfulness to the succeeding exhale.

Now, to be fair, Linda really had made something of the running start her father gave her, but it does seem a fairly adept, if overt, social commentary on how people tend to overlook their own privilege (even if we just now limit it to "economic" privilege) in assessing their achievements. There was a lot of that in this filmónot so subtle social commentary. And yet it was enjoyable, because the narrative was well-crafted, coherent, and sustained my interest throughout. Unlike, say, The Last Jedi.
  #65  
Old 12-07-2019, 10:40 PM
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SPOILER:
I figured out that the vials of medicine had been switched.
Something that might be very simple, but after watching the film and discussing it with my friend and checking it around, I haven't really got it: why reinjecting anything? Wasn't enough with the switching of the bottle tags? It got me thinking even during the movie, because I felt it wasn't clear enough...

Cheers and lots of mysteries for you all!
  #66  
Old 12-07-2019, 10:53 PM
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Katherine knew that she was supposed to see Marta as something other than a wage slave from "lesser stock" (my words), but *never really internalized it. She was a caricature of the liberal elite [...]
*It's also possible she did internalize it and did see Marta as no less worthy than herself, but lacked the courage of her convictions. But then, lack of courage doesn't really explain how/why she (however reluctantly on the surface) gave up what she knew about Marta's mom to the rest of the family.
I didn't get the idea that she'd told at some point during the proceedings; more like she had mentioned it earlier, between finding out and the movie. It's the kind of thing that could be mentioned while talking politics; she and Hippie-Leech could have been talking about The Horrors Of Immigration Politics for example and she dropped "yeah, I mean, look at Marta's mom, she's undocumented and blahblahyadda".

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Just saw it last night. Glad it was so much fun; I convinced the wife to go based on this thread. She was impressed by Craig, and also Johnny Storm (what's his real name? He's one of those Chrises...). She'd only seen him as Cap'n America.
Evans, and yeah, he's a good actor, even if the pretty face tends to be distracting from the actual, you know, acting.
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Last edited by Nava; 12-07-2019 at 10:55 PM.
  #67  
Old 12-08-2019, 11:50 AM
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Something that might be very simple, but after watching the film and discussing it with my friend and checking it around, I haven't really got it: why reinjecting anything? Wasn't enough with the switching of the bottle tags? It got me thinking even during the movie, because I felt it wasn't clear enough...

Cheers and lots of mysteries for you all!
What do you mean reinjecting?
  #68  
Old 12-08-2019, 12:02 PM
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Ransom didn't switch the bottle tags. He emptied each bottle into a syringe and reinjected the contents into the other bottle. (Not sure how you could cleanly remove and replace the bottle tags or labels.)

Last edited by Dewey Finn; 12-08-2019 at 12:03 PM.
  #69  
Old 12-08-2019, 12:51 PM
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On reflection, Ransom should have just killed Marta first and then Harlan (or both together in a fire or car crash or something). It would probably be a lot easier to contest Harlan's will (or at least come to a quick settlement with Marta's mom) if Marta had died in an "accident".
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  #70  
Old 12-08-2019, 01:31 PM
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Of course Ransom could have done other things, but what he did was arrange for what he thought as a foolproof way to ensure that he got his inheritance, by making the one who was bound to get it appear to be the most responsible for the death. He just didnít count on that darn nurse, so good at her job that she could tell the difference between one liquid concoction and another just by feel (and yet, somehow, careless enough to inject a substance into someone's arm without even bothering to glance at the labelóa very narrow margin of failure indeed).

We could discuss the finer points of how Ransom might have gone about his scheme, but then weíd be discussing a different movieóa movie that Rian Johnson might have made, but didnít. With that said, I think itís fair to assume, given the movie Johnson did make, that even if Ransom had come up with a different scheme, he still would have been caught in the end by a grizzled, yet somewhat quirky investigator who teamed up with some plucky, downtrodden, and ultimately innocent young person.

It wouldnít be Scooby Doo if Scooby didnít show up with those darn kids and keep the villain from getting away with it all.
  #71  
Old 12-08-2019, 01:51 PM
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Well, if we're going to go that route, where we're not debating what Ransom could/should have done (if Ransom was a real person and not a fictional character) but what would have made a good entertaining movie, I stand by my earlier comment that what I would have liked is more over-the-top black comedy in which every family member has been trying to kill Harlan but the person who actually succeeds is Marta, purely by accident. The big twist is that Blanc figures this out but decides he'd rather keep quiet and let Marta inherit everything because she's the only decent person in the household. You could even keep the ending with her sipping from the "My House, My Rules" mug with a hint of ambiguity that maybe it wasn't an accident after all.
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  #72  
Old 12-08-2019, 02:22 PM
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Honestly, I thought Ransom's method made perfect sense. That it failed was because it had to, not necessarily because it was a bad plan on its face. Iím just really not super interested in talking about all the various ways in which plots Johnson didnít choose might still have failed (and may or may not have been more prone to failures).

The 100% fatal car accident, for instance has the problem that (1) itís maybe not so easy to cause a car to crash in a single-vehicle collision and yet definitely kill everyone inside, (2) there is, as you note, still the problem of Marta' heirs having a claim to the money, which could perhaps be dealt with through coercion and threats, but next thing you know some SJW (a real SJW, not just some liberal elite wannabe who doesnít have the stomach for it like his cousin) gets involved and the case drags on for years, and (3) not that he knew it, but his neo-nazi cousin overheard the argument about the inheritance, so if both Harlan and his unknown-to-all-but-Ransom heir had ended up dead together, that sure would have looked suspicious for Ransom. And even without knowing that someone DEFINITELY overheard key parts of the conversation, Ransom must have known others knew he had an argument. So he would have been the prime suspect, absent Marta with her finger on the needle.

And Iím sure you can come back and counter all of those points (a not all inclusive list of reasons why a car accident, for example, might be a bad plan) I just made, or point out ways in which the OD idea was an even worse idea, but, again, how much effort to we really want to expend discussing a movie that didnít happen and wasn't made, with imaginary facts that we donít have access to?

I say again, I thoughtóand still thinkóthat Ransom's chosen method made perfect sense, and had as much "right" to succeed as any other reasonably conceivable murder plot, if not more. I donít see the need to re-write the Knives Out for Rian Johnson anymore than I feel the need to come up with contrived or retconned explanations for why certain parts of The Last Jedi that apparently made no sense somehow actually make perfect sense if only you assume certain facts that the writer/director himself didnít bother to incorporate into the story he chose to tell, but maybe made it into the novelization as a one line (and obviously contrived) explanation for something. God I hate Last Jedi...

So what were we talking about again?

Last edited by ASL v2.0; 12-08-2019 at 02:27 PM.
  #73  
Old 12-08-2019, 02:31 PM
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Honestly, I thought Ransom's method made perfect sense.
And I don't disagree; it was everything Ransom did afterward that made no sense. I can picture him talking to Marta to learn what had actually happened, but once he finds out that she blames herself for Harlan's death, he should have backed off immediately, not doubled down by killing the housekeeper, quadrupled down by confessing to killing the housekeeper, nor infinity-downed by trying to stab Marta in front of two cops and a detective.
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Old 12-08-2019, 03:43 PM
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Well, if we're going to go that route, where we're not debating what Ransom could/should have done (if Ransom was a real person and not a fictional character) but what would have made a good entertaining movie, I stand by my earlier comment that what I would have liked is more over-the-top black comedy in which every family member has been trying to kill Harlan but the person who actually succeeds is Marta, purely by accident. The big twist is that Blanc figures this out but decides he'd rather keep quiet and let Marta inherit everything because she's the only decent person in the household. You could even keep the ending with her sipping from the "My House, My Rules" mug with a hint of ambiguity that maybe it wasn't an accident after all.
I think this would have undermined one of Johnson's key storytelling priorities--that unlike Agatha Christie mysteries (where we rarely get to know the victim and the suspects are on equal footing so game for scrutiny), he portrays Marta as a profoundly sympathetic figure--even before he does the bait & switch and we're led to conclude she's the accidental killer.

Having all the characters try to kill Harlan immediately turns the film into a farce, and that completely unroots it from a reality where we care about the end result. Marta stops being a person with real problems and becomes just another piece in a self-indulgent theatrical where the director bends over backwards showing how clever he is. That might have been "fun" but also probably a bit boring and not something that would be worth revisiting. Does anyone really care about any of the characters in Orient Express, for example? Their motive is eventually revealed as rooted in anguish but while the execution of the twist may have been a genuinely clever one at the time, Poirot becomes a mouthpiece for the emotion channelling the longing for justice because we don't see much of it in the suspects themselves.

What Johnson has achieved here is easy to take for granted for its degree of difficulty. I loved Columbo mysteries, but we were always invested in having the bad guy go down, especially due to their arrogance. They were easy foils. Positioning the suspect as someone we "know" did it and balancing the mystery with our hopes of her somehow getting away with it is both incredibly clever but also very human in painting her with more dimensions than the genre usually affords. Who knows if Johnson could repeat the effort if this were to become a modest franchise, but I would certainly like to find out.
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Old 12-08-2019, 04:05 PM
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What do you mean reinjecting?
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Ransom didn't switch the bottle tags. He emptied each bottle into a syringe and reinjected the contents into the other bottle. (Not sure how you could cleanly remove and replace the bottle tags or labels.)
I meant what Dewey Finn described, although at some moment it looked too like he also covered one tag with another one (I remember the image of the second tag being removed), and that "double process" is the one that confused me so much...

Thanks both for answering!
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Old 12-08-2019, 04:12 PM
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The wife and I watched it yesterday afternoon. Loved it. One question though. In that last shot of the family standing outside looking up at Marta, was the old lady with them? I hope she was still inside, with Marta planning to care for her.
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Old 12-08-2019, 04:19 PM
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I think this would have undermined one of Johnson's key storytelling priorities--that unlike Agatha Christie mysteries (where we rarely get to know the victim and the suspects are on equal footing so game for scrutiny), he portrays Marta as a profoundly sympathetic figure--even before he does the bait & switch and we're led to conclude she's the accidental killer.

Having all the characters try to kill Harlan immediately turns the film into a farce, and that completely unroots it from a reality where we care about the end result. Marta stops being a person with real problems and becomes just another piece in a self-indulgent theatrical where the director bends over backwards showing how clever he is. That might have been "fun" but also probably a bit boring and not something that would be worth revisiting.
Well, we can agree to disagree one what makes a movie entertaining. I enjoyed Kind Hears and Coronets a lot more than the two or three versions of Murder on the Orient Express I've seen over the years. I can enjoyed a black comedy a lot more than a convoluted mystery, especially one that relies on the rather unlikely contrivance of a character who has her own built-in lie detector.
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  #78  
Old 12-29-2019, 05:34 PM
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I'm a bit late to the party, having just seen the movie, but I had a couple of sticking points I'm not clear on.

I don't remember Marta getting close enough to Harlan's body to get any blood splashed on her shoe, so how did that happen?

If Marta was so familiar with the drugs to be able to identify them by slight differences in color or viscosity, wouldn't she have realized that the contents had been switched, or at least have checked everything again?

IANA pharmacist, but why would the packaging and labeling of a dangerous drug like morphine be so very similar to a standard drug?
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Old 12-29-2019, 06:20 PM
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I'm a bit late to the party, having just seen the movie, but I had a couple of sticking points I'm not clear on.

If Marta was so familiar with the drugs to be able to identify them by slight differences in color or viscosity, wouldn't she have realized that the contents had been switched, or at least have checked everything again?
I think it was that she DID correctly identify them by sight/weight. That's why she didn't give him a fatal OD. But when she saw the labels, then she got confused. She doubted herself. And once you get yourself crossed up like that, it's hard to straighten it out, especially when death is on the line.

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Old 12-29-2019, 07:41 PM
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I think it was that she DID correctly identify them by sight/weight. That's why she didn't give him a fatal OD. But when she saw the labels, then she got confused. She doubted herself. And once you get yourself crossed up like that, it's hard to straighten it out, especially when death is on the line.
Yes. That's why I thought she would have then looked at the full vial labeled [regular drug] and perhaps noticed it didn't look/feel like what she was accustomed to and realized something was amiss and taken the time to sort it out.
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Old 01-08-2020, 03:09 PM
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Well, if we're going to go that route, where we're not debating what Ransom could/should have done (if Ransom was a real person and not a fictional character) but what would have made a good entertaining movie, I stand by my earlier comment that what I would have liked is more over-the-top black comedy in which every family member has been trying to kill Harlan but the person who actually succeeds is Marta, purely by accident. The big twist is that Blanc figures this out but decides he'd rather keep quiet and let Marta inherit everything because she's the only decent person in the household. You could even keep the ending with her sipping from the "My House, My Rules" mug with a hint of ambiguity that maybe it wasn't an accident after all.
We'll have to agree to disagree with what makes a movie entertaining. One of the reasons I loved this movie is because it completely undermines the lazy, hackneyed tale you just outlined. For a while, when the film was showing that virtually everyone had a motive for wanting Harlan dead, I assumed this was where they were going, and I was so relieved to find out it wasn't.
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Old 01-08-2020, 04:38 PM
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We'll have to agree to disagree with what makes a movie entertaining. One of the reasons I loved this movie is because it completely undermines the lazy, hackneyed tale you just outlined. For a while, when the film was showing that virtually everyone had a motive for wanting Harlan dead, I assumed this was where they were going, and I was so relieved to find out it wasn't.
Ditto. That would have felt...too farcical. I really liked that Knives Out managed to be funny and lighthearted without being too "zany."

It's also worth noting that (hundred-year-old Agatha Christie spoilers alert?) that would have been pretty damn close to the ending of Murder on the Orient Express with a dash of The Mousetrap.
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Old 01-09-2020, 10:06 AM
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I don't remember Marta getting close enough to Harlan's body to get any blood splashed on her shoe, so how did that happen?
I believe they showed a dramatic spurt when Harlan slit his throat. I believe we are supposed to believe the spray reached all the way to her shoe. I think I recall some comments about how the spatter/spray ruled out homicide (or perhaps just confirmed suicide).
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Old 01-09-2020, 12:19 PM
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I believe they showed a dramatic spurt when Harlan slit his throat. I believe we are supposed to believe the spray reached all the way to her shoe. I think I recall some comments about how the spatter/spray ruled out homicide (or perhaps just confirmed suicide).
The splatter of the blood (according to the detective) was such that if someone had been there committing the act, it would have been inconsistent with what the blood pattern looked like.

Marta looked too far away from her viewpoint at the door to get that one single tell-tale drop on her sneaker but later when she revisits the room with BB, the room looks a lot smaller than it did before, so it's a pretty easy thing to forgive imho. Ditto the strength of the fridge magnet to erase the VHS tape so quickly.
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Old 01-10-2020, 04:00 PM
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We'll have to agree to disagree with what makes a movie entertaining. One of the reasons I loved this movie is because it completely undermines the lazy, hackneyed tale you just outlined.
Yeah, I'm not sure the descriptor "lazy" should be thrown around without taking into account that the only reason the movie's plot works is that a character is physically incapable of lying, except for temporary plot-dependent interludes.
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Old 01-12-2020, 02:14 PM
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Yeah, I'm not sure the descriptor "lazy" should be thrown around without taking into account that the only reason the movie's plot works is that a character is physically incapable of lying, except for temporary plot-dependent interludes.
?? I'm pretty sure they were consistent with her liepuke. Sometimes she was able to suppress the gag reflex temporarily, but she always appeared to be making an effort to do so, just as people do in real life when they're trying not to throw up.

It was a ridiculous plot conceit, but I had no problem with the way it was used: instead of being a lazy workaround to plot problems, it was instead used both to drive tension and to enable plot twists. It was a MacGuffin excellently used.
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Old 01-12-2020, 06:40 PM
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It was a ridiculous plot conceit, but I had no problem with the way it was used: instead of being a lazy workaround to plot problems, it was instead used both to drive tension and to enable plot twists. It was a MacGuffin excellently used.
And also for a payoff at the end as she got to throw up on Ransom.

She did that, right? Not just in front of, but on?
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Old 01-12-2020, 07:27 PM
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And also for a payoff at the end as she got to throw up on Ransom.

She did that, right? Not just in front of, but on?
Oh, she aimed true.
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Old 02-28-2020, 09:08 PM
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Watched this tonight and had a great time. All the acting and the twisty plot were right up my alley, and Iíll likely watch it again.

And a sequel is coming!
https://deadline.com/2020/02/knives-...on-1202853566/
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Old 03-01-2020, 02:26 PM
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I don't remember Marta getting close enough to Harlan's body to get any blood splashed on her shoe, so how did that happen?
THIS blood drop bothers me to no end. It makes no sense to me because she absolutely didn't look close enough to Harlan to get any blood on her shoe. And that tiny spot is supposedly the reason Blanc knows the truth? I didn't buy that. Without any testing, a spot so tiny could be easily explained away and could have come from anywhere, including Marta's home.
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Old 03-02-2020, 01:09 AM
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I enjoyed this video detailing easter eggs in Knives out and you might too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5TDifgs7Wg

It made me realize that when Marta finds Fran dying, Fran can be heard to tell Marta: "You did this" but it's actually "Hugh did this".
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Old 03-02-2020, 05:12 PM
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Saw it last night and loved it. Can we go back to basics for a moment? Why was Harlan disinheriting Linda? What was her transgression/failing?
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Old 03-02-2020, 07:08 PM
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Watched this tonight and had a great time. All the acting and the twisty plot were right up my alley, and Iíll likely watch it again.

And a sequel is coming!
https://deadline.com/2020/02/knives-...on-1202853566/
Spoons out
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Old 03-03-2020, 09:30 AM
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Spoons out
I think they're probably planning ahead for the full six movie series:

Pipe Down
Wrench in the Works
Pistol Grip
Corpse Candle

and the stunning conclusion in:

End of the Rope
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Old 03-03-2020, 09:47 AM
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Saw it last night and loved it. Can we go back to basics for a moment? Why was Harlan disinheriting Linda? What was her transgression/failing?
There wasnít one. The idea was to "let" his children get out from under his shadow and do something great on their own, rather than rely on his wealth as a crutch. Linda perhaps already had (albeit with a million dollar loan from Dad).
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Old 03-03-2020, 01:01 PM
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I think they're probably planning ahead for the full six movie series:

Pipe Down
Wrench in the Works
Pistol Grip
Corpse Candle

and the stunning conclusion in:

End of the Rope
They could do the full

2 Sharp 2 Out
Knives Out: Julienne cut
The Knives and the Out
Knives Five
Knives Out 6
Out 7
The Food ate with Knives
Kn9
Untitled tenth film
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Old 03-03-2020, 02:12 PM
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There wasnít one. The idea was to "let" his children get out from under his shadow and do something great on their own, rather than rely on his wealth as a crutch. Linda perhaps already had (albeit with a million dollar loan from Dad).
Ah. Thank you.
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Old 03-04-2020, 12:01 PM
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I enjoyed this video detailing easter eggs in Knives out and you might too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5TDifgs7Wg

It made me realize that when Marta finds Fran dying, Fran can be heard to tell Marta: "You did this" but it's actually "Hugh did this".
Didn't they explain that right in the movie itself?
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Old 03-04-2020, 01:00 PM
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Didn't they explain that right in the movie itself?
I'll have to rewatch it. If so, thanks for the correction.
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Old 03-04-2020, 01:14 PM
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Didn't they explain that right in the movie itself?
Yes. It was a significant plot point, in the final confrontation with Hugh/Ransom. Marta flashes back to Fran's last words, and then says something along the lines of, "Fran didn't say 'you did this', she said 'Hugh did this.' You always made the staff call you Hugh."
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