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Old 12-18-2019, 07:52 PM
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Star Wars The Rise of Skywalker (SPOILERS!)


Surprised to see there wasnít a spoiler thread for SW TROS already. Iím not a hardcore fan of the series but Iíve seen every episode and was lucky to see the premiere the other night. Here are my thoughts and comments.

The Good
・Some good action sequences, especially the one where Rey and Kylo fight on the Death Star wreckage.
・Han Solo returns as a vision to help Kylo become Ben again.

The Bad
・Opening screen crawl starts by suddenly announcing the existence of Palpatine with no reasoning, and itís never explained throughout the movie.
・Leia is training Rey in the art of lightsaber who herself was trained by Luke, which was shown in less than 15 seconds of flashback.
・Really thin plot line which is basically go find a device to find another device that will lead you to big boss Palpatine.
・No Anakin except as voice of Jedi past. (And I only found out because he was listed in the credits.)
・They made Hamill wear a cheap wig to make ghost Luke look like fat Jesus
・Palpatine and Rey are just too powerful. Palpatine can down ships in the sky through force lightening and Rey can resurrect a dead Ben who she killed herself.
・Sheís Rey Skywalker at the end. Really?

The Downright Ugly
・Rey is Palpatineís granddaughter? What?
・Palpatine effectively kills himself because he doesnít know when to stop shooting lightening when it's being reflected back at him by Rey.
・Ben and Rey kiss when he gives up his life to save hers and itís every bit cringe-worthy as it sounds.
・It turns out Anakin wasnít the chosen one and the first two trilogies were lies.

Overall score and comment
3/10
For those expecting a satisfying conclusion to the Skywalker saga, be forewarned, itís a trap!
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Old 12-18-2019, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Saturn Dreams View Post
It turns out Anakin wasnít the chosen one and the first two trilogies were lies.
Waitówhat!? Then who was?

For the record, Iím asking because I donít plan to see the movie any time soon, and donít care about spoilers.
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Old 12-18-2019, 08:40 PM
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Haven't seen it but have been aware of plot details for a little while.

Yup. You nail it.

I thought ROTJ was dumb with its handful of "What???" Moments

This has triple, quadruple! Video Game plotting.....bringing back Palpatine thus negating the end of ROTJ. New, unseen before Force powers....Palpatines granddaughter!! Palpatine being behind everything ....GROOOOANNN...

And now I get to hear years of "It's the fans fault cause they "made" Abrams pander to them."

Those evil, toxic incel fans. Yeah because AV and Slate and Salon et al are never toxic
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Old 12-18-2019, 09:26 PM
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Wait—what!? Then who was?

For the record, I’m asking because I don’t plan to see the movie any time soon, and don’t care about spoilers.
Well, The Chosen One was supposed to bring balance back to the force by destroying the Sith, which I assumed Vader/Anakin did in ROTJ by throwing Palpatine into the reactor core and making him explode. But seeing that Palpatine survived and is now “all of the Sith”, (his words), and he ultimately commits suicide by continually blasting lightning at Rey’s lightsaber so that it reflects back at him, that would make Palpatine The Chosen One.

Last edited by Saturn Dreams; 12-18-2019 at 09:30 PM. Reason: word
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Old 12-18-2019, 10:30 PM
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Waitówhat!? Then who was?

For the record, Iím asking because I donít plan to see the movie any time soon, and donít care about spoilers.
The whole prophecy thing was dumb and Star Wars should have made a choice

I prefer:

Prophecies are dumb and they just get people killed (sort of the GoT route)

OR

He DID bring balance to the Force by wiping out so many Jedi

or finally...he ultimately did so by killing Palpatine.


HERE'S something I never thought of...the common dude? He should HATE Jedi. They're all about redemption and "I feel the good in you father/ Ben Solo/whatever...

The common dude wants justice and vengeance.


Meanwhile in OUR world you're cancelled for a racist joke you told 20 years ago.
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Old 12-18-2019, 10:35 PM
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Huh.
Okay, I responded to it differently. I'd put it as not quite as good as The Force Awakens, and slightly better overall than The Last Jedi*.

Yes, I was annoyed the Rey turned out to be Palpatine's granddaughter. I thought (and think) that it would have been much better if Rey had not come from one of the "royal lines" of the Star Wars universe. Johnson's message was that a hero can come from anywhere; I like that, and it's pretty much true.
Still, the movie overall was good enough fun to let me past that. The banter between Finn, Poe, Rey, and all was great fun, and those characters have good chemistry together. The action scenes were at least good, and usually great. Leia got a good sendoff, and her character didn't seem forced at all - neat trick, considering all they had to work with was previously filmed scenes.

Overall, 7/10.


*Overall, quite good, but the Canto Bight sequence really dragged it down.
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Old 12-18-2019, 10:48 PM
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I might still see it but man that ending sounds like it was written by a committee of 8 year olds with action figures.

"They fight!! He sucks the life out of them!! They fight!!! ZAPZAP ZAP AIEEEEEEE!! They die!!! NOOoooooo!!! Ben brings her back to life!!! They kiss!!! Muahhhh muahhhh smoochy smooochy!! He dies!!"

Kind of like this
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Old 12-19-2019, 02:43 AM
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I quite liked the first third, but that part whizzed by very fast. It felt like the Star Wars newspaper comic strips I used to read in the early 80s. It seemed like if JJ had directed The Last Jedi it would have been mostly that kind of whizz-bang heroics.

The next third answered all the big questions, but they were questions I didn't desire any answers to, and in the end I didn't like the answers that were given.

The last third was chaotic formulaic madness that I'm still not sure holds up to scrutiny and needs a liberal dose of hand-wavium.

Overall, though, it was an enjoyable romp that thrilled me, so I give it a good 7 out of 10.

I am a huge fan of The Last Jedi. The subversion of expectations while serving up the basic formula of Star Wars and of second acts of trilogies made it unpredictable and exciting and a real departure that excited. Whereas The Rise Of Skywalker, a title I still don't understand yet, went not only back to formula and predictability, but was guessed at by fanboys, screamed for, no less, from across the back alleys of the internet. All those idiot sad grown-ups who said they were going to crowdfund a remake of The Last Jedi would have made a haphazard cacophony like this.

Overall I liked it, and may even grow to love it, but I was sadly disappointed by some of the fundamentals. I did not like Palpatine. I did not like the maguffins. I did not like Rey's family history. I did not like the "set-up, immediate resolution" formula that was repeated multiple times (Chewie's dead, now he's alive; Threepio's memory is wiped, now it's back; The map thing is destroyed, oh here's another one; Kylo's ship crashed into a fireball, oh he's fine; Zorii Bliss's planet blew up, oh she's right here; We've escaped from Kylo Ren, but he's followed me right behind, multiple times etc etc etc).

The pressure to conclude everything was palpable and maybe outweighed any potential elegance of the story. It needed an extra movie, or a more deft screenwriter.
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Old 12-19-2019, 11:10 AM
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Wow...that was.. eh, weird?

It really felt like a big F you to Last Jedi. I am not sure it is more like two child like directors bickering about what star wars should be, or justJJ trying to appease the child like fans that are still stuck in the temper tantrum they got in after the last movie.

In any case, it just felt like a bad movie with far too many "come again?" moments. Altough I probably need to see it again to assess it as a stand alone movie...this time around it mostly landed as an "answer" to last Jedi. I think the Forbes review is pretty spot on... altough I do feel bad Star Wars is still better than no Star Wars.

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Old 12-19-2019, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by GuanoLad View Post
I am a huge fan of The Last Jedi. The subversion of expectations while serving up the basic formula of Star Wars and of second acts of trilogies made it unpredictable and exciting and a real departure that excited. Whereas The Rise Of Skywalker, a title I still don't understand yet, went not only back to formula and predictability, but was guessed at by fanboys, screamed for, no less, from across the back alleys of the internet. All those idiot sad grown-ups who said they were going to crowdfund a remake of The Last Jedi would have made a haphazard cacophony like this.
I wish people would stop trying to blame this on "fanboys," as if "normal people" and other casual fans who limit themselves to the movies, donít give two shits about their favorite fanfic (which they donít have) being expelled from canon, or indeed even follow the Star Wars universe beyond the films couldnít possibly find flaws in it.

Disney botched this trilogy. The writing was crap, and even the much vaunted Rogue One didnít, as you say of this latest venture, "hold up to scrutiny." The characters are generally well-acted (with the exception of Carrie Fischer's hack Leia and Harrison Ford's equally dull portrayal as Solo), the trouble is that, as written, they donít get to "act" like people. Now, I might be able to excuse that, or at least turn my brain off long enough to enjoy the films as an experience, but the storyline that should have connected the three episodes together was apparently the last thing Disney was worried about. Much more important to insert BB-8 into a walker so they could sell toys.

This isnít a fringe group of costume-wearing "fans" vs "all us normal people" (my words) with Disney as a poor little mouse caught up in the cross-fire and ultimately caving to the all-powerful "fan base", but rather a major corporation doing a shitty job of managing what has become its intellectual property.

The story that fans ruined the trilogy or fans somehow coerced Disney into making a bad movie through fear is tantamount to a false consciousness.

So can we all please stop deflecting blame away from Disney? It's infested with rot, and that rot is spilling over into casual conversations between normal people who just happen to disagree on how enjoyable their Star Wars films have been, and to what extent they are or are not flawed in some objective way. I say I donít like the writing, and it didnít make sense that Holdo would act so toxic towards Poe and yet be lauded as a great leader, and that that and other highly questionable elements made it hard for me to enjoy the films; some podcaster with his hand out hoping for early screening tickets from Disney says, "Admiral Holdo was a brilliant leader, and I should know because my cousins dog used to be owned by a veteran, and if thatís not evidence enough, just consider that everyone who appeared on screens with her was in awe of her, even Leia (never mind that the script was written to have them be in awe of her, and that her actions didnít square with her reputation and how that derailed things is precisely the point at issue). Anyone who tries to argue otherwise just feels threatened by the idea of a woman being empowered over men."
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Old 12-19-2019, 12:45 PM
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Haven't seen it but I did read all the spoilers beforehand. This confirms them. And I've read reviews. Sounds messy, not what I would have wanted, but I will definitely go see it.


Bringing Palpatine back is wildly unnecessary. Making Rey his granddaughter is equally unnecessary. And it is a criminal shame what they did with Luke's character in this sequel trilogy. So misused.
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Old 12-19-2019, 01:08 PM
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see this is where disneys cherrypicking of the discarded "expanded universe"comes back to bite it in the ass

theres a book or 3 where they discover that the emperor had been cloning for him self for decades because the power he had would his physical body and luke or someone brings him back and becomes his father for a bit ...

and moving ships with the force is for pikers in jedi/sith lore theres people who can destroy an entire planet with their minds just by getting pissed at people

Last edited by nightshadea; 12-19-2019 at 01:09 PM.
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Old 12-19-2019, 01:21 PM
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Most of us have no grounding in the EU. Most of us donít care. These films arenít bad because they discarded a bunch of glorified fanfic, theyíre bad because the writing is mediocre at best and the trilogy as a whole lacks coherence.
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Old 12-19-2019, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by nightshadea View Post
see this is where disneys cherrypicking of the discarded "expanded universe"comes back to bite it in the ass

theres a book or 3 where they discover that the emperor had been cloning for him self for decades because the power he had would his physical body and luke or someone brings him back and becomes his father for a bit ...

and moving ships with the force is for pikers in jedi/sith lore theres people who can destroy an entire planet with their minds just by getting pissed at people
Clones clones clones....ARGGGGHHHH

If they needed to bring him back, do it as some sort of "Sauron thing"...he attached himself to Vader,

'When you burnt the body, I thought that was the end of meeee. But noooo, Yoda and Anakin himself and Obi Wannnnn were there as well. Just enough power for me to use to keep my non-corporeal form alive. For years I skulked til I arrived here. And i brought something back with me from the dark."

And then i don't know. Whoever the most famous Sith from ancient lore (not Maul. Not again.) steps out of the shadows. The good guys defeat him.

Rey throttles, yes STRANGLES Palpatine (Keeping with Rian's tone of 'we're beyond that good-dark side bullshit now.') and kills him. I'd like to see her use force lightning, but that might confuse the audience TOO much and have them thinking for the rest of the GD film that she's secretly evil.

Or some such shit.


Edit: And i HATE the title. Just typical crap meaningless drivel meant to be inspirational but makes no sense on examination. The end of the Skywalker saga (And what horseshit THAT is too, yo call it that) is called "Rise of Skywalker"??? Featuring a cringy last line that makes...not so much sense.

Last edited by Dale Sams; 12-19-2019 at 02:25 PM.
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Old 12-19-2019, 02:42 PM
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These films arenít bad because they discarded a bunch of glorified fanfic, theyíre bad because the writing is mediocre at best and the trilogy as a whole lacks coherence.
This is exactly why I can't take all the complaints about new movies seriously. You are literally describing the originals, do you think they suck too?
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Old 12-19-2019, 02:45 PM
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This is exactly why I can't take all the complaints about new movies seriously. You are literally describing the originals, do you think they suck too?
The more I talk with people like you, yes, the less I think of the originals. Happy?
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Old 12-19-2019, 02:56 PM
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The more I talk with people like you, yes, the less I think of the originals. Happy?
It's fine to say you just don't like Star Wars, but if you are one of those people who think the originals are great and the new ones suck then the issue lies with you.
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Old 12-19-2019, 02:58 PM
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I reject your hypothesis.
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Old 12-19-2019, 03:01 PM
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This is exactly why I can't take all the complaints about new movies seriously. You are literally describing the originals, do you think they suck too?
Return of the Jedi DOES suck. It's saved some by Luke on the Death Star and the final battle. BUT: The lonnnnng opening, Hans emasculation, (not helped by Ford looking bored), Vaders emascualtion, ewoks, yub yub, a second death star...

ROS triples down on the eye-rolling nonsense.

Last edited by Dale Sams; 12-19-2019 at 03:02 PM.
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Old 12-19-2019, 03:11 PM
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I wish people would stop trying to blame this on "fanboys,"
I wasn't blaming fanboys, I was pointing out how JJ Abrams story ideas matched what certain specific groups of fans were specifically asking for.

Also, denying you're a fanboy then behaving exactly like a fanboy is not helping.
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Old 12-19-2019, 03:37 PM
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I wasn't blaming fanboys, I was pointing out how JJ Abrams story ideas matched what certain specific groups of fans were specifically asking for.

Also, denying you're a fanboy then behaving exactly like a fanboy is not helping.
Depends on your definition of fanboy is, I suppose. If it’s "someone who responds critically to bad writing in Star Wars movies," then I guess guilty as charged. But I would note there is a wide gap between the false dichotomy that DigitalC offers, whereby one must either think the OT films were flawless, or that they just plain suck, and that, whatever your vote, you must vote in lock step on the NT, too.

I don’t own merchandise. I don’t watch the cartoons. I don’t have Disney+ or by extension watch whatever is on it. Though I do watch YouTube videos about Star Wars, among other film criticism, it’s a fairly limited set and none of the channels are specifically devoted to Star Wars (Red Letter Media, Lindsay Ellis, and Renegade Cut are the ones I subscribe to). The only Star Wars media I have consumed, beyond the theatrically released films, are the Ewok movies. As a kid, I loved them, along with Return of the Jedi, because of the furry Ewoks (I was born in the 80s, sue me). As an adult, I acknowledge there are flaws in the OT too, find that RotJ is particularly tiring in spite of my childhood devotion to the Ewoks, and see that the Ewok movies are just a hot mess which I can’t even stand to look at anymore.

That I do not agree that the OT "sucks", either on a subjective enjoyment level or as filmmaking craft, does not mean I must therefore agree the NT is "just as good" lest I be decried as intellectually dishonest or biased. It’s the sort of false dichotomy and equivocation that the real "fanboys" (those blindly devoted to all things Star Wars) rely on to trumpet the charge for Disney and it’s latest venture into a galaxy far away.

I say the Emperor has no clothes. You (general you, here) point to a hole in one of the Emperor’s old, discarded garments and say "Hey, look! There’s a hole here, too. So I guess that means that you must think the a Emperor never had any clothes."

No. There is a difference between a few holes here and there in the old fabric, and walking around stark raving naked in the new. I am happy to acknowledge the flaws in the OT, but I do not grant that they are quite so gaping as those in the NT.

Last edited by ASL v2.0; 12-19-2019 at 03:42 PM.
  #22  
Old 12-19-2019, 03:49 PM
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They are the same holes, its the same damn outfit.
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Old 12-19-2019, 03:55 PM
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I will say this thread is making me appreciate TLJ more.

My biggest complaint there was some middle-brow gibberish "Thats how were gonna beat them" (huh), Canto Blight and the corner Rian stuck ep 9 in

Thats not so bad compared to other movies,
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Old 12-19-2019, 05:32 PM
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It's fine to say you just don't like Star Wars, but if you are one of those people who think the originals are great and the new ones suck then the issue lies with you.
I donít understand this line of reasoning. I cannot dislike the new trilogies if I liked the former ones?
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Old 12-19-2019, 09:12 PM
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Old 12-19-2019, 09:13 PM
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I donít understand this line of reasoning. I cannot dislike the new trilogies if I liked the former ones?
I've just never heard anyone articulate a single complaint about new movies that did not also apply in spades to the originals. Just look at ASL's complaints, he's describing the original movies as much as the new ones.
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Old 12-19-2019, 10:49 PM
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I've just never heard anyone articulate a single complaint about new movies that did not also apply in spades to the originals. Just look at ASL's complaints, he's describing the original movies as much as the new ones.
Take this as analogy:

Just because the new trilogy and the old trilogy both ended with a show down with "the Emperor" does not mean they are the same. But your argument, in a nutshell, seems to boil down to that, as if there is no distinction in how the two trilogies got us to that end or how the characters developed along the way. The mere fact that it ends in a showdown with the Emperor means that I must love or hate them both equally, to follow your logic as I’m seeing it.

Last edited by ASL v2.0; 12-19-2019 at 10:50 PM.
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Old 12-19-2019, 11:11 PM
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Here are your criticisms of the current trilogy:
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  • The writing was crap
  • The characters are generally well-acted (with the exception of Carrie Fischer's hack Leia and Harrison Ford's equally dull portrayal as Solo), the trouble is that, as written, they donít get to "act" like people.
  • the storyline that should have connected the three episodes together was apparently the last thing Disney was worried about. Much more important to insert BB-8 into a walker so they could sell toys.
Each one of those are equally applicable to the original trilogy too. Poor acting and writing, no pre-planned connection through the trilogy. It's not that they match exactly plot point for plot point, it's that the general sense of why you dislike the new stuff is what Star Wars has been guilty of from day one.

I personally adore the original trilogy, was very disappointed in the prequels, and have really enjoyed the new trilogy. Though there are flaws in all of them, it's about the balance between the good and bad things (ironically), and I assess them individually. My criticisms are, I hope, subjective and personal, and aren't always logical or consistent. I will not say anything is objectively bad if they have a strong popular following, all I can truly say is that I didn't like it. Far too often the haters of the new trilogy have argued they're objectively ruined and awful and consider that as giving a fair criticism. They are wrong to do so, and need to grow up and learn to be more circumspect.
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Old 12-19-2019, 11:14 PM
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Far too often the haters of the new trilogy have argued they're objectively ruined and awful and consider that as giving a fair criticism. They are wrong to do so, and need to grow up and learn to be more circumspect.
But they (the new trilogy films) kind of are (objectively bad). And that last bit is an ad hominem.

Last edited by ASL v2.0; 12-19-2019 at 11:14 PM.
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Old 12-19-2019, 11:20 PM
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I haven't seen the new movie, but this seems to have evolved into a discussion of the whole series, which seems to happen with every new Star Wars release - perhaps necessarily. That being the case, I don't feel like this is the thread-shit it might otherwise be. I apologize if I'm wrong.

I was 12 when Star Wars came out. I was the target audience, a nerdy sci-fi loving bookish boy. LOVED it. Liked Empire a lot, and over time, I grew to like it even more, but that was the end of my love of all things Star Wars.

They suck. They all suck in significant ways. Ewoks, Jar-Jar, Podracing and an annoying kid version of Darth FUCKING Vader, bad acting: bad acting EVERYWHERE!, Boba/Jango-Fett, clones, midichlorians, the younglings!, NOOOOOOOO! Recycling the friggin' Death Star like a bad sci-fi Groundhog Day. . .recycling elements in general that didn't seem so much like a recurring theme than lazy, lazy writing.

I've grown to like Adam Driver a great deal in other things, but I think he's badly miscast in this series (I haven't seen Skywalker, but I can't see how it could change my mind). Feel like the whole Rey/Ben connection wasn't done NEARLY as well as they might have. Interesting idea, badly handled. Don't like what they did with Luke, though he went out like a bad-ass, at least. There's more, but why bother?

My friend is a Star Wars fan, and he winces when I get started on Star Wars. There's little after Empire that I can't spend 5 minutes eviscerating, but I think it's because I WAS such a huge fan. Hate isn't true, bitter, distilled hate unless it started from love. I thought the Solo movie, of all things, was the third-best movie of the series. Thank Christ it bombed though, or else I'd have to endure seeing a Boba-Fett movie talked about everywhere.

I didn't see Rogue One. I started watching it once, and five minutes in decided I really didn't want to see it. I was watching it only because I should, because it was Star Wars. I didn't give a rat's ass about a Star Wars prequel that didn't involve the main characters. I didn't like the series so much anymore, why should I watch a movie that guarantees anyone I get to know and like are gonna die? Screw it.

For the most part, just shitty, shitty movies with mostly good/great effects. If the first Star Wars wasn't such a huge game-changer in so many ways(incredible effects, a big-budget sci-fi movie, one of the biggest, earliest summer blockbuster movies, huge cultural touchstone), I wonder if we'd still be talking about it today. I loved the first two movies, and continue to love both sci-fi and fantasy movies to this day, but I'm astounded by how bad this series is, and yet it still gets serious money to make, serious attention, and serious box-office returns - and serious criticism.

Couldn't they have got some of the great old Sci-Fi writers involved at some point? Leigh Brackett was involved in Empire (the last GOOD one) before she passed, and the movie contained several major elements from her treatment. DC Fontana just recently passed, Harlan Ellison was around a good long time - just budget in the necessary court costs. I loved Star Wars, but there's no hate like hate distilled from love. What a monumental waste.

And yes, I'll probably see Skywalker too. This series is verging on codependency now.
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Old 12-20-2019, 12:11 AM
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I just got back from an early showing and I thoroughly loved it. I think, as with TLJ, a lot of people are going in expecting a Great Film from a series that has always been a B-movie about space wizards with laser swords that just so happens to have a big budget. It was fun and I had fun.

I was a little disappointed that Rey turned out to be related to Somebody Important after all, but it certainly wasn't a twist I saw coming. (I always had her pegged as a reincarnation of Anakin.) There's got to be an entire story to be told about how Palpatine convinced someone to bear his child, and I'd love to see that tale get told at some point, perhaps in a novel or in a comic.

If there's one major complaint I have, it's that 3PO getting mind-wiped just to have R2 reload him from a backup was a copout, and it raises the question of why R2 never did that when he was mind-wiped the first time back in Episode 3. I also would've liked more explanation of how and why ol' Sheev created Snoke, though the half-grown Snokes in his cloning vat were a nice touch. The flashback scene to younger Luke and Leia looked way too artificial - it's almost as if the CGI they were using has gotten worse since Rogue One. Other than that, though, the visual effects were well-handled, and the violence felt a lot more real and impactful than it has in the past.

Ben's redemption was well-handled, and Palpatine's self-destruction was a nice callback to Episode 3 where he almost did the same thing but for Anakin turning on the Jedi to save him. The reveal of what the title means at the very end wasn't what I was expecting, but it makes sense - all this time that Rey's been searching for her identity, she wound up building one of her own. (And it wasn't like she was gonna go around calling herself Rey Palpatine, after all.)

All of Leia's scenes had been shot back during the making of TFA, so it's surprising how well they fit into this movie - Abrams must have had some idea of how Ep 9 would wind up going, possibly as a backup plan in case Treverow lost the project.

Did anyone else notice the female couple share a kiss during the celebration at the Resistance base? I thought it was a nice touch and an overdue acknowledgement that, despite what George Lucas said ages ago, gay people do exist in Star Wars.

I thought it was a fitting conclusion to the saga, and I can't wait to see what's in the future of Star Wars.
  #32  
Old 12-20-2019, 12:59 AM
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I've just never heard anyone articulate a single complaint about new movies that did not also apply in spades to the originals. Just look at ASL's complaints, he's describing the original movies as much as the new ones.
That may be so, but that really wasnít the question I donít think itís fair to say that if you liked the OT, you have to like the ST too just because you personally havenít heard a unique and distinct criticism that applies to one trilogy and not the other. There are a lot of holes that argument.

But Iím digressing. The point of this thread was to discuss TROS and see what people liked and didn't like. I wasnít looking to pit one trilogy series against another, although it might be unavoidable.
  #33  
Old 12-20-2019, 01:17 AM
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I just saw this. I thought it was terrible. Hyperactive, ADD, disjointed and nonsensical.

There was no sense of plot, or drama, or tension. Everything happened at breakneck speed and it felt like no camera angle lasted more than 5 seconds. It was like watching a 2-hour fireworks display.

The ďbanterĒ was painful and some of it was so awkwardly trying to emulate modern Twitter-speak that it took me out of the movie (e.g. ďThey fly now?!Ē during the stormtrooper chase)

The plot made no sense and seemed to serve only to create an excuse for an endless string of ďimpressiveĒ CGI vistas, battle sequences, and forced ďweightyĒ moments (apparently nothing was weighty enough to merit more than 5 seconds of screen time though!) Among the absurdities - how did Palpatine - basically 1 guy, out of power and cut off from the Empire - secretly build and staff an entire mega-fleet of star destroyers, with each of them carrying their own planet destroying super weapon that previously required a small artificial moon to power and operate?

Maybe Iím turning into a cranky old man at age 32, but my god, this sucked.

Last edited by Absolute; 12-20-2019 at 01:18 AM.
  #34  
Old 12-20-2019, 01:29 AM
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Among the absurdities - how did Palpatine - basically 1 guy, out of power and cut off from the Empire - secretly build and staff an entire mega-fleet of star destroyers, with each of them carrying their own planet destroying super weapon that previously required a small artificial moon to power and operate?
One assumes he had discovered Exagol (which is probably the new canon's equivalent of Korriban judging from the ancient giant sculptures) before the Battle of Endor, seeing as the Wayfinder was on the Death Star at the time, and was probably planning the Final Order fleet as a backup in case he failed to turn Luke and crush the Rebellion. Honestly, it's not too different than what he did in the old EU novels. The Final Order's fleet is probably staffed mostly by clones aside from the officer corps, which the First Order had plenty of to spare.
  #35  
Old 12-20-2019, 02:59 AM
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Did I catch that right, they have a Fleet of Star Destroyers with Death Star Lasers now?
Gaah.

Why I decided not to watch this film was really simple - there was no way to make it a good ending after TLJ. Whatever you think about the movies on their own, TLJ did kill any way to make a satisfying, smoothly linked third part of the ST.

And that is something that cannot be said about the OT - Empire Strikes Back was a perfect Setup for a finale, and ROTJ delivered on this conclusion to a Heroes journey.

Which is the absolute Problem of this new trilogy - Rey, Poe and Finn do not go through any interesting development. And Kylos development is - haphazard to say the least.

Where is the development of Rey as a Skywalker? She does not at any time create a connection to Luke OR Leia. If she should honor anyone it should be Ben, so she should adopt his Name.

Both Rian Johnsons direction or JJ's direction could have led to interesting trilogies, but by having two artistically and philosophically opposed guys head the movies and not realising this, Disney dropped the ball.
  #36  
Old 12-20-2019, 03:13 AM
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At some point early on in the movie, I started to think of the film as the sequel to the alternate-universe Episode 8 that J.J. Abrams would have directed, and not the Episode 8 that was actually made. All that jumbled exposition and veers in character development? That's just because I didn't see the previous film.

It helped a bit.
  #37  
Old 12-20-2019, 03:31 AM
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Just got back and my short review is, "Um... Wow??"

(Forgive late-night rambling...)

So many awesome moments and so many corny-ass moments. I think, at some points, some comic relief from Porgs would've been preferable to some silly dialogue.

I will point out that the KyloRey kiss was not one of romantic attraction. It was love, er... of some sort, as I felt it. They're related, she couldn't save his soul, he could only save her, yadda yadda. It's not like they were ever going to have Jedi/Sith kids. Him dying after all that looked totally dopey and cheesy. But the kiss was not some teenage-crush ender.

Also cheesy was the, "Hey, look! Other people want to help and they all showed up at the same time!" Groan. I was waiting to see Darth Santa Claus streak by real quick in an X-Wing just to hint at how equal we all really are! Double groan.

But overall, I should digress. Why bother to hate or dissect this? It's Star Wars, not Shakespeare or Star Trek or Firefly. It's got Muppets, and good ones!

And let's all remember throughout this thread that (paraphrasing) "We are the spark that creates the light of fighting ignorance..." or something.

TL/DR - I still loved it. Nothing looks or sounds like Star Wars and, hey, I was 6.5 years old when I saw Episode IV. I'm turning 49 for episode IX, so let's end it, huh? Salute to Daisy Ridley. I thought she was the best in this one.
  #38  
Old 12-20-2019, 03:40 AM
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I will point out that the KyloRey kiss was not one of romantic attraction. It was love, er... of some sort, as I felt it. They're related, she couldn't save his soul, he could only save her, yadda yadda. It's not like they were ever going to have Jedi/Sith kids. Him dying after all that looked totally dopey and cheesy. But the kiss was not some teenage-crush ender.
Rey is Sheev's granddaughter and Ben is the grandson of Anakin, who Sheev "fathered" using the Force. I guess that makes them second cousins once removed.

Which I guess means that that nonexistent spoiler people thought they found in Disney Infinity four years ago was kinda true after all.

Quote:
Also cheesy was the, "Hey, look! Other people want to help and they all showed up at the same time!" Groan. I was waiting to see Darth Santa Claus streak by real quick in an X-Wing just to hint at how equal we all really are! Double groan.
Honestly, I would've loved it if the Enterprise, or Serenity, or the TARDIS, or Battlestar Galactica had been part of that fleet.

Last edited by Smapti; 12-20-2019 at 03:45 AM.
  #39  
Old 12-20-2019, 04:33 AM
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The reveal of what the title means at the very end wasn't what I was expecting, but it makes sense - all this time that Rey's been searching for her identity, she wound up building one of her own. (And it wasn't like she was gonna go around calling herself Rey Palpatine, after all.)

I thought it was a fitting conclusion to the saga, and I can't wait to see what's in the future of Star Wars.
My bolding. And LOLOL! I thought the same thing at the end. "Hi. Palpatine. Rey Palpatine." Nah. Won't work too well around the post-first order Imperial time of galaxy rule.

And it was fitting. I was quite happy with all the saber sequences. I thought Driver and Ridley were awesome. (Of course, more Luke Skywalker would've been cool... whatevs.)
  #40  
Old 12-20-2019, 04:34 AM
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Maybe I'm easily please, but I absolutely loved it.

When Luke raised the X Wing echoing that amazing scene from Empire, I actually cried.
  #41  
Old 12-20-2019, 04:53 AM
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Rey is Sheev's granddaughter and Ben is the grandson of Anakin, who Sheev "fathered" using the Force. I guess that makes them second cousins once removed.
D'OH! I am so confused by these bloodlines, I thought Boba Fett and R5-D4 might even be second cousins!


Quote:
Honestly, I would've loved it if the Enterprise, or Serenity, or the TARDIS, or Battlestar Galactica had been part of that fleet.
I wouldn't have blinked if spaceships resembling Chitty Chitty Bang Bang and Herbie or even the Willy Wonka boat appeared in the massive help-fleet. Seriously annoying, because they kept mentioning "sending out the signal but no one has responded", so I guess we should expect it. Still, I'll say it's as good an ending as Jedi. My best to the Progs and, oh yeah, dismantle that stupid junkyard D-Oh droid they made. A Roomba would be more useful. (Sorry!)

Last edited by Locrian; 12-20-2019 at 04:54 AM.
  #42  
Old 12-20-2019, 04:56 AM
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dismantle that stupid junkyard D-Oh droid they made. A Roomba would be more useful. (Sorry!)
N-no thank you.
  #43  
Old 12-20-2019, 06:39 AM
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Maybe I'm easily please, but I absolutely loved it.

When Luke raised the X Wing echoing that amazing scene from Empire, I actually cried.
I also loved this scene, especially since I spent much of Episode 8 waiting for the X-wing to matter and was disappointed when it didn't.

Most enjoyable of the final 3 movies for me, enough that I can forgive some of the more egregious plot issues.
  #44  
Old 12-20-2019, 07:11 AM
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so reys empress of the galaxy now? i havent see nany of the new movies.. but its still the rebel alliance vs the empire? they never founded the "new republic" after jedi right ?

Last edited by nightshadea; 12-20-2019 at 07:12 AM.
  #45  
Old 12-20-2019, 07:23 AM
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I pretty much lost interest after the 1st 3, and barely made it through the 2d 3 w/ my geek kid's assistance. Totally uninterested in the last 2 - as well as however many one-offs. Don't mean to yuck anyone's yum. Just saying that I've lost track of any supposed through-storyline. When it comes to On-Demand or the DVD makes it to the library, if my wife chooses to watch it some evening, I probably won't leave the room, and will probably mildly enjoy it as a 2 hr time-waster.
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  #46  
Old 12-20-2019, 09:55 AM
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I just got back from an early showing and I thoroughly loved it. I think, as with TLJ, a lot of people are going in expecting a Great Film from a series that has always been a B-movie about space wizards with laser swords that just so happens to have a big budget. It was fun and I had fun...
Yeah, I was watching sports at a bar beforehand (late showing), and everyone there was excited for me that I was going to "have fun at Star Wars!". I said I felt like an eight year old kid.

That attitude kept with me throughout the movie, with only a few missteps to remind me that I was watching a Disney/JJ* Production...

*minor gripes I had:
I would've rather had Rey's parents "nobodies". JJ really should have kept Rian's iconoclastic reveal intact.

Does JJ need to give all his favorite actors a paycheck? It pulled me out of the film every time I noticed another of his pals from the casts of Alias and Lost (and now Felicity, too).

And wait, where was Force Broom Kid (from the stables at the end of TLJ)?


But so many positives to thoroughly outweigh them.

The cast (and the casting) were great, the Emo Soap Opera aspects were dealt with quicker than in the Last Jedi. The action, the little callouts, the new characters, all were creative. But more importantly, the heart of what made the originals fun and exhilarating was kept intact.

I've got a couple of cinephile friends who immediately tear apart a mov... excuse me film... because it wasn't perfect. Or wasn't what they thought should be made. Well, I'd suggest shelving your inner cynic and being an eight year old kid.

As my bar buddies would say, "Have fun at Star Wars!"
  #47  
Old 12-20-2019, 10:39 AM
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I've got a couple of cinephile friends who immediately tear apart a mov... excuse me film... because it wasn't perfect. Or wasn't what they thought should be made. Well, I'd suggest shelving your inner cynic and being an eight year old kid.

As my bar buddies would say, "Have fun at Star Wars!"
You say "embrace your inner child" (or words to that effect), another poster says "grow up." Both as a pre-requisite to seeing and enjoying this film and itís trilogy. Color me confused.

(Not really, I actually agree more with you: the less you can manage to think about it, the better.)
  #48  
Old 12-20-2019, 12:46 PM
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I saw it last night and was sobbing through most of it. Not a tear trickling down my face, but full-on, shoulders shaking, sobbing. Partly for the feels within the movie, but a lot of it was that this was a movie I have been waiting for for more than 40 years. A constant presence throughout my life since I was 8 years old, always knowing "there will be more to come," and now...done. (disclaimer: I know that as long as the Mouse can make money, there will always be more. But they're not SW. They're SW Universe)

I understand picking the new trilogy apart (in my house, we don't talk about Eps. 1-3): the cheesiness, the parallels to 4-6, the plot holes, the unanswered questions. But as other posters have said, a lot of people hold the original trilogy up as perfection, and an example of all that is holy. They weren't.

SPOILER:
They weren't ever supposed to be.


They were cheesy. They were inconsistent. They were formulaic. But they were fun. They told a good story. A simple, cliche-riddled tale of humble beginnings, a rise to power (for want of a better word), battle between good and evil against overwhelming odds (with the obligatory main character's internal conflict) and the eventual triumph of the light over the dark.

These movies followed the same classic formula. (So did Eps 1-3, but they were just plain unwatchable, IMO) So I'm going to come to the defense of Rise of Skywalker and say that I loved it. Enough nods to the Originals: "Red 5 is in the air" was beautiful, as an acknowledgement that a legendary X-wing was still recognized, and the whiners can STFU, 'cos Chewy got his medal.

My take on it is that it ended the story. It ended well, the good guys won, and the trilogy of trilogies is complete.
[Kwiil]I have spoken.[/Kwiil]
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Old 12-20-2019, 12:55 PM
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Last edited by Swampwolf; 12-20-2019 at 12:56 PM. Reason: double-post
  #50  
Old 12-20-2019, 12:56 PM
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As somebody who thought that The Last Jedi was poorly written trash, I *did* enjoy that The Rise of Skywalker spent so much of its narrative sticking a giant middle finger to the previous movie. The highlight for me was the not-so-subtle dig by Charlie-from-LOST and Finn at the Holdo Maneuver, which single-handedly destroyed the SW continuity even as JJ did what he could to overcome that (the continuity is still trashed by it btw).

I read all the leaks so I knew the entire plot beforehand. Consequently nothing surprised me here and I didn't particularly like the movie.

Note that I don't think that *any* of the sequel trilogy films are especially good and that the best Disney Star Wars content so far has been the two spin-off movies. I am only a casual Star Wars fan at any rate but I just thought that TLJ was well and truly terrible, even as I think it didn't have too much to build off of anyway after TFA.

So, in order of my preferences of the film's, I'd rate them as TROS (which I give a 6.5/10) --> TFA (6/10) --> TLJ (1/10).
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