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  #151  
Old 12-22-2019, 10:22 AM
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For two decades we have claimed that if anyone other than George Lucas was incharge we would have a great movie (s).
As the sequel trilogy ends, we realise that was not true.

Sorry George.
The problem with the prequels was Lucas had too much control.

The problem with the sequels was that Lucas had no input.

The original trilogy had just the right balance.
  #152  
Old 12-22-2019, 11:20 AM
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The problem with the sequels was that Lucas had no input.
Nah, they didn't need him. Their main issue is that they were impatient. They were determined to get Episode VII in theaters by 2015. Because of that, they did not sit down and write out a story plan for all three movies. They got that one written, made zero plan for Episodes VIII or IX, and then made those up as they went.

When Rian Johnson began prep work on Episode VIII, he was asked what kind of guidance or requirements he was given from Disney. He said they told him nothing and said there he could make up whatever he wanted. They had to approve his script, but they did and he made the movie with huge creative freedom.

When it was out, he was asked what he think will happen with Episode IX and he honestly answered, "I have no idea. I am not involved in that movie at all."

I was surprised they did not hire JJ Abrams to make all three and pay Lawrence Kasdan to write all three. Film them concurrently and release them 2017-2019(one per year).

Lord of the Rings, style. Cheaper, cohesive vision, clear storyline through three movies.
  #153  
Old 12-22-2019, 11:29 AM
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I do want to say out of all the eye-rolling, out of nowhere, never-seen before stuff,....I liked the Force-Dyad thing.

Last edited by Dale Sams; 12-22-2019 at 11:29 AM.
  #154  
Old 12-22-2019, 11:29 AM
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These guys This guy put together a pretty funny studio pitch video:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=b2zZFtq13c4
"Spoiler alert! Step inside the pitch meeting that led to Star Wars: Rise of Skywalker!"
  #155  
Old 12-22-2019, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by jnglmassiv View Post
These guys This guy put together a pretty funny studio pitch video:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=b2zZFtq13c4
"Spoiler alert! Step inside the pitch meeting that led to Star Wars: Rise of Skywalker!"
Yeah yeah yeah....the pitch videos are great
  #156  
Old 12-22-2019, 11:35 AM
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I have made a poll to see what you all think happened with Palpatine being alive. Please feel free to vote.
  #157  
Old 12-22-2019, 11:45 AM
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My head canon won't allow 'clone'...there's enough crappy tropes. I like the second one....his spirit lived and acolytes returned it to his badly damaged body.
  #158  
Old 12-22-2019, 12:00 PM
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At the end, Lando asked Jannah, the woman who Finn met on Kef Bir, where she was from and she said, "I don't know." He replied, "Let's find out." So was that intended to set up the next movie, or at least a TV show?

Because the obvious (to me) subject for a followup would be rebuilding the Jedi knights.

And another thing I noticed was that someone gave Chewbacca a medal. I assume that was because in the first film, he didn't get one while Han and Luke did.
  #159  
Old 12-22-2019, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by N9IWP View Post
According to Wookieepedia, the moon that the Death Star II wreckage was on was Kef Bir (https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Kef_Bir) which is a different moon than the Forest moon with Ewoks.

Brian
If only there had been room in the movie for some line of dialog pointing that out.
  #160  
Old 12-22-2019, 12:06 PM
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At the end, Lando asked Jannah, the woman who Finn met on Kef Bir, where she was from and she said, "I don't know." He replied, "Let's find out." So was that intended to set up the next movie, or at least a TV show?
Possibly. There was a cut sub plot where it turns out she's Lando's daughter.

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And another thing I noticed was that someone gave Chewbacca a medal. I assume that was because in the first film, he didn't get one while Han and Luke did.
Yes, Leia was carrying it around right before she died. Maz took it and gave it to him. A terrible injustice righted.

Looking at the generally negative impressions here, I wonder if the kind of audience at a given screening makes a difference. The crowd at my theater was clapping, shouting, laughing and generally deeply into it. And I came out of the theater not thinking that I had seen some visionary masterpiece, but still I had a really fun time. And as that's what I went in hoping for and expecting; I was not dissatisfied in the least.

Last edited by Pork Rind; 12-22-2019 at 12:06 PM.
  #161  
Old 12-22-2019, 12:58 PM
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For two decades we have claimed that if anyone other than George Lucas was in charge we would have a great movie (s).
As the sequel trilogy ends, we realize that was not true.

Sorry George.
I won't go that far, but yeah. I've bagged on Lucas for years about his crappy prequel and even crappier directing. The last three movies just prove that there are even crappier directors out there. And writers.
  #162  
Old 12-22-2019, 01:04 PM
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I think the crowd can be important. I saw it in a theatre with a few other people (less than 10 total).

Maybe an initial negative reaction (to the ridiculous crawl for instance) also carries through and makes you more critical while watching

Still I think it was the general directions of the story (compared to what came before) that I found lacking...and not so much the nitpicky "wasn't that light saber destroyed" or "didn't you need a droid to fly an xwing" moments.

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  #163  
Old 12-22-2019, 01:08 PM
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I haven't read the thread yet but saw it last night and wow was it disappointing. First they basically under cut everything TLJ tries to do: instead of saying you know the Force belongs to everyone and the Jedi may have been a mistake, we are back to lineages and destinies. The Jedi and the Sith (with the Sith not being mentioned by name at all in this trilogy before now). Also they Poochied Rose back to her Home Planet and gave Finn a new girlfriend. TLJ has flaws but they undid the best things about it.
Oh, if you liked TLJ it is very likely you will HATE this movie. JJ slapped down as many layups from TLJ as Johnson did to TFA. Not just disagreeing, almost spitefully

And, you could tell Mark Hamill was relishing delivering his "Don't disrespect a Jedi weapon line."

This movie HAD to do a few things for me:

1. Explain why Rey is so naturally powerful.
2. Restore Luke's character as much as possible.

They didn't do that on perfectly, but they made a good attempt.
  #164  
Old 12-22-2019, 01:11 PM
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Nah, they didn't need him. Their main issue is that they were impatient. They were determined to get Episode VII in theaters by 2015. Because of that, they did not sit down and write out a story plan for all three movies. They got that one written, made zero plan for Episodes VIII or IX, and then made those up as they went.

When Rian Johnson began prep work on Episode VIII, he was asked what kind of guidance or requirements he was given from Disney. He said they told him nothing and said there he could make up whatever he wanted. They had to approve his script, but they did and he made the movie with huge creative freedom.

When it was out, he was asked what he think will happen with Episode IX and he honestly answered, "I have no idea. I am not involved in that movie at all."

I was surprised they did not hire JJ Abrams to make all three and pay Lawrence Kasdan to write all three. Film them concurrently and release them 2017-2019(one per year).

Lord of the Rings, style. Cheaper, cohesive vision, clear storyline through three movies.
Agreed. Whoever had the idea of "let each director do whatever" frankly should be fired.
  #165  
Old 12-22-2019, 01:22 PM
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Palpatine question:

Was there any chatter after episodes VII and VIII about Snoke being a stand in for palpatine? The reason I ask is my husband was rewatching the movies before seeing IX. I wasn’t watching, but I could hear it and hearing palpatine and Snoke so close together I noticed Snoke has a weird voice but I heard palpatine clearly in it at some point. I assume someone had to have noticed it before.
  #166  
Old 12-22-2019, 01:32 PM
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A minor point, but remember in TFA when the crashed Tie Fighter sank into the sand then blew the hell up? I knew that the one Rey set on fire wasn't going to blow up, but it logically should have. (That would make a nice How It Should Have Ended. Tie Fighter blows up, Rey becomes Force Ghost.)
  #167  
Old 12-22-2019, 01:51 PM
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Agreed. Whoever had the idea of "let each director do whatever" frankly should be fired.
Kathy Kennedy, most likely. It is beyond my imagining that they did not make all three at the same time.
  #168  
Old 12-22-2019, 03:16 PM
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A minor point, but remember in TFA when the crashed Tie Fighter sank into the sand then blew the hell up? I knew that the one Rey set on fire wasn't going to blow up, but it logically should have. (That would make a nice How It Should Have Ended. Tie Fighter blows up, Rey becomes Force Ghost.)
This is Rey here. No way she crash landed. I think she caught it on fire or something.
  #169  
Old 12-22-2019, 05:33 PM
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I won't go that far, but yeah. I've bagged on Lucas for years about his crappy prequel and even crappier directing. The last three movies just prove that there are even crappier directors out there. And writers.
You know what? At least Lucas managed to tell a coherent story. The execution may not have been great, but he knew what he wanted to say and he said it.
  #170  
Old 12-22-2019, 05:36 PM
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I just saw it. I'll give it a solid meh. It seemed like 2 movies jammed in one - so the pacing was completely off. I also wondered when Force powers got ultra jacked up. However, I did like the basic outline of the story and the ending was well done. But IMO it hit all a bunch of fan service notes it felt it had to and just made it over the line, but didn't do more than that.

I also agree it was a movie that wanted to pretend The Last Jedi didn't happen. The lack of a unifying vision for the sequel trilogy killed it.

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  #171  
Old 12-22-2019, 05:42 PM
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You know what? At least Lucas managed to tell a coherent story. The execution may not have been great, but he knew what he wanted to say and he said it.
I agree with this. His execution was off but I think the outline of Ep.1-3 had a good story to tell. A three movie arc about the rise of Anakin and his eventual fall to the dark side culminating in the rise of Darth Vader.
The new ones seem like they were pitched by Jerry Seinfeld. “It’s a Star Wars trilogy.... about nothing”

I could see years from now Disney attempting a re-boot of the sequels and these becoming very forgetable.
  #172  
Old 12-22-2019, 06:05 PM
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Also they Poochied Rose back to her Home Planet and gave Finn a new girlfriend.
Directors Cut will have a deleted scene with Rose saying "So, did Finn ever tell you about the time I saved him from certain suicide and said we'd only won this by saving the people we love? No? I guess he forgot."
  #173  
Old 12-22-2019, 06:10 PM
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I saw the movie earlier today and I have to say that I am surprised at my indifference to it. Essentially I feel like I saw a movie but I didn't get that childhood giddiness that I usually get from a Star Wars movie - the other time I had the same feeling was after Phantom Menace.

I was certain that Luke was going to make an appearance and he did. I was not expecting as much Leia as there was. And I was, for sure, not expecting Han.

Random thoughts:
In the theater I was thinking that I have no investment in the characters, I wonder why that was?

Was there too much Leia? Considering when Carrie passed away all her footage had to be left over from previous movies. Would we have gotten a better movie if she wasn't shoehorned in?

The 'surprises' of Chewie and C3PO were undone too quickly IMO.

I did like that shot of Rey with the twin suns....
  #174  
Old 12-22-2019, 06:27 PM
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I didn't see Rogue One. I started watching it once, and five minutes in decided I really didn't want to see it. I was watching it only because I should, because it was Star Wars. I didn't give a rat's ass about a Star Wars prequel that didn't involve the main characters. I didn't like the series so much anymore, why should I watch a movie that guarantees anyone I get to know and like are gonna die? Screw it..
I think you've done yourself a disservice because IMO Rogue One was the best of the post-trilogy films.

Overall I'm in the camp that says that Star Wars itself didn't do a great pass at building a universe, but that's fine. It was a great standalone film, Empire was a great sequel, ROTJ was... a needed resolution, but a mediocre one.

As a kid, all I wanted after that was more and more and more Star Wars, and as an adult I now see that was unrealistic. This world wasn't an intricated, extensible thing like Tolkien would have built, it was a couple of groundbreaking sci-fi films that were milked to death to keep a merchandise industry afloat.
  #175  
Old 12-22-2019, 06:37 PM
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I remain unimpressed with the works of Jar Jar Abrams. If he would just stay away from the Star Wars universe, that would be great.
  #176  
Old 12-22-2019, 06:51 PM
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Not sure if it was just my theater but no one made a chuckle at the obvious sight gags like C3P0 turning to see what everyone was looking at or Chewie ducking in the crowd. Anyone see those jokes actually land?
  #177  
Old 12-22-2019, 07:00 PM
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Not sure if it was just my theater but no one made a chuckle at the obvious sight gags like C3P0 turning to see what everyone was looking at or Chewie ducking in the crowd. Anyone see those jokes actually land?
I laughed at both. I think others did.

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I remain unimpressed with the works of Jar Jar Abrams. If he would just stay away from the Star Wars universe, that would be great.
And Star Trek, too.
  #178  
Old 12-22-2019, 07:23 PM
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Not sure if it was just my theater but no one made a chuckle at the obvious sight gags like C3P0 turning to see what everyone was looking at or Chewie ducking in the crowd. Anyone see those jokes actually land?
There were laughs all around me for both of those.
  #179  
Old 12-22-2019, 07:26 PM
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Not sure if it was just my theater but no one made a chuckle at the obvious sight gags like C3P0 turning to see what everyone was looking at or Chewie ducking in the crowd. Anyone see those jokes actually land?
My theater was very reserved, but there were laughs at those jokes. I laughed, too. Not hugely but a little laugh.
  #180  
Old 12-22-2019, 08:14 PM
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I remain unimpressed with the works of Jar Jar Abrams. If he would just stay away from the Star Wars universe, that would be great.
He’s done with Star Wars. After destroying Star Trek and destroying Star Wars, he decided that was too easy. So he’s moving to the already destroyed DC movies to take the challenge of seeing if it’s possible to destroy them any further.
  #181  
Old 12-22-2019, 08:21 PM
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I know I've seen something really similar to the Emperor being suspended by a giant mechanical arm in the middle of an arena before. It is concept art from ROTJ, something from the EU, or something else? I mentioned it on Facebook, and a friend agreed they'd seen something similar as well. Maybe in a video game?
  #182  
Old 12-22-2019, 08:53 PM
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Overall I'm in the camp that says that Star Wars itself didn't do a great pass at building a universe, but that's fine. It was a great standalone film, Empire was a great sequel, ROTJ was... a needed resolution, but a mediocre one.
Here's a New York Times OpEd piece (paywall warning) speculating on what if Star Wars was just a single movie released in 1977 and not a massive universe.

Among other things, it says, "Before 'Star Wars' became a commercial behemoth, most critics found it a charming diversion: The Times called it 'the most elaborate, most expensive, most beautiful movie serial ever made.' They were bemused to see such high production values — state-of-the-art special effects, a full orchestral score — lavished on subject matter previously associated with cardboard props. It was, unlike all the tragic masterworks of American cinema of that decade, innocent good fun."

That's how I remember it when my brother and I saw it in the local multiplex.
  #183  
Old 12-22-2019, 08:55 PM
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I have unusual opinions about Star Wars... or at least among my VERY fanboy friends and on the internet. I liked the prequels. ROTJ was my favorite of the OT (which came out when I was a young girl, so of course the warm fuzzies the Ewoks gave me imprinted on me permanently). I don't give a flying fuck about Boba Fett. I only saw the Christmas special last year. I don't know all the ships' names or the random characters who have one line. I haven't read a book or a comic and haven't finished a whole companion show... well, I will finish Mando this week but technically I haven't finished it this second. But I've seen every single movie from Jedi on in the theaters first run, even if I had to go alone. It's a weird balance because it's so binary, this SW fandom. It's full on nerd out or I don't watch sci-fi.

And I know it's not REALLY like that because it couldn't make the money it does without people like me. People who are slightly more than just casuals. But it FEELS like that.

Anyway, I really like TFA and TLJ and Rogue One. Solo was awful in most ways and I'd rather watch TPM than see Solo again. So going into ROS, I was pumped. And leaving it... not so much. I mean, I cried for probably the last half to 1/3 of the movie. But it didn't feel like genuine grief or feelings. It felt like I was being manipulated to cry. And it worked. The movie generally wrapped up exactly how I suspected it would, with some surprises, but it was unfulfilling. There was both TOO MUCH movie and TOO LITTLE at the same time.

What happened to Rose? Why did we need that other former storm trooper? Couldn't that have been Rose on the destroyers? Why did we need the hobbit popping up and taking up valuable screen time, however much I didn't mind his character? I loved Richard E Grant but... Phasma would have been fine bullying general Weasley. I know the OT was a mess in terms of being mapped out all three at once, but it really shows in this trilogy too that it happened here. You can't just bring the emperor back. You gotta hint at it in the previous two. Seriously. Just a hint.

The Leia scenes weren't as distracting and awful and weird as Lydia's scenes after the actress's death in the Sopranos, but... they weren't good. One of my biggest complaints about TLJ was not letting Leia die, however awful that would have been to see. It made sense in-story AND with real life. But alas, that didn't happen and they didn't handle it well. Sure, force-distracting Kylo was fine thematically, but all the other parts were just so... unnecessary and you could really feel how they were like "This is the footage we have. Let's work backwards from there."

Chewie's dead, no he's not. Rey's dead, no she's not. SNORE.

I didn't hate it. It just was a mess. I did like D-0. I found my spirit droid. I found the former stormtroopers and their animal attack on the destroyers really cool, the old vs new. I liked Rey taking the name Skywalker. The voices of the previous jedi was a genuinely earned emotional moment and I tear up now thinking about it. I liked the planet where they were having that 42-year party. And Ewoks and porgs and the little dude who mess with C3PO. The sight of all the destroyers was also terrifying.

But it was just ... both too long and too short. Either it needed a lot cut out or a lot added to make it two movies. I'm not crazy about a lot of the ret-conning, but that has literally been a part of things since Empire and I just have to deal with it.

I don't think it was a waste of my time and money and if a NEW movie came out next week I'd go see it. But I won't be buying super extra deluxe bonus editions of this over and over as one might do with the OT.

I'd have to rank it no higher than 6 of the 9 in the 3 trilogies. It might be 9th. And it might be 10th if I include R1 and Solo. So yay it wasn't the worst for me or at least not by a whole lot but still kind of sad it wasn't my favorite. Doesn't everyone go into each new one hoping it'll be the best?
  #184  
Old 12-22-2019, 09:04 PM
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I did like that shot of Rey with the twin suns....
Somehow the suns were literally doing a BB-8 impression in the shot before it. Binary suns would not be able to move from behind each other that quickly.
  #185  
Old 12-22-2019, 10:31 PM
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Here's a New York Times OpEd piece (paywall warning) speculating on what if Star Wars was just a single movie released in 1977 and not a massive universe.

Among other things, it says, "Before 'Star Wars' became a commercial behemoth, most critics found it a charming diversion: The Times called it 'the most elaborate, most expensive, most beautiful movie serial ever made.' They were bemused to see such high production values — state-of-the-art special effects, a full orchestral score — lavished on subject matter previously associated with cardboard props. It was, unlike all the tragic masterworks of American cinema of that decade, innocent good fun."

That's how I remember it when my brother and I saw it in the local multiplex.
Siskel and Ebert loved it and if I recall called it daring and great.
  #186  
Old 12-22-2019, 10:48 PM
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Here's a New York Times OpEd piece (paywall warning) speculating on what if Star Wars was just a single movie released in 1977 and not a massive universe...
I stood in a four-block line in '77 for the first Star Wars, without knowing anything about it except a short blurb on the news that called it "a cowboy movie in space".

We were so starved for character-driven, fun, non-boring Sci-Fi movies that we went a couple of times the first week. And became huge fans, arguing minor plot points, searching for action figures, and mentally exploring a new universe.

So even the first stand-alone movie turned us into fanboys.
  #187  
Old 12-22-2019, 11:32 PM
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Overall, I was _very_ disappointed.

Biggest problems:
-As others have pointed out, no overall story arc for the trilogy. The original trilogy was about Luke learning his powers and redeeming his father. The prequel trilogy was about the fall of Anakin Skywalker. This trilogy was about...?

I guess if anything, the prequel trilogy was about Rey learning her powers and redeeming Ben Solo. Which is the same arc as the original trilogy

-And that leads into my primary complaint which is... we just didn't see anything new. Each previous "main" movie has done something that no previous one did, with the arguable exception of TFA, in which case the new thing was just "oh, yeah, we're making Star Wars movies again". What in this movie was NOT a retread of a previous movie? One big arc was Kylo/Ben's redemption. Which we've already seen. There was a big space battle. There was a big light saber battle. There was a guy who used to be a smuggler. There was a massive destructive force disabled by one weak spot. And on and on.

-And the ending. So once palpatine turned his full fury, and the strength of all previous Sith, and all the strength he had just sucked from her and Kylo, on Rey, she defeated him by... crossing her light sabers like Wonder Woman? And he just kind of sat there not turning off his force lightning. And that was the end of the Sith, after countless millenia?


Smaller complaints:
-Lightspeed skipping? That violates both any real-world sense of how things should work, and also in-universe canon. Remember when Han Solo had to make careful calculations? If you want to include that scene because you think it's cool (and it really wasn't all that cool) at least throw in a quick nod that the falcon got upgraded with new hoodats which allow it.
-Where were the cool new ship/droid designs? One thing we can usually depend on from a Star Wars movie is SOME iconic image. I guess the new little droid who followed BB8 around was kinda cute
-The dagger mcguffin was _particularly_ stupid. So, let's get this straight: Forty years or so ago, the death star crashed. Someone realized that the magic crystal was still there, intact, in the emperor's office. That person decided that what they ought to do with that information was... leave it there, and then very carefully construct a dagger, of all things, covered with clues, telling people where to find it. Who constructed that? For whom? Why? And then in the meantime, did no one who was on this quest think to look in _the literally most obvious place in the entire universe_?
-If you're going to build the largest evil fleet the universe has ever seen, is it a good idea to build it inside the atmosphere of a hidden planet from which it won't easily be able to take off? Shouldn't you have started deploying the ships out into space as they got built?

Things I liked:
-The acting and quips were generally good and entertaining
-The bond between Rey and Kylo/Ben was interesting, and the idea of being able to physically transfer objects between them paid off in a very clever fashion

How it should have ended:
-Palpatine says "kill me and me and all the sith ever will infect you and you will be our host" (or whatever he said)
-Rey is conflicted
-The voice of Yoda (or Luke) (or someone) whispers in her ear "trust your instincts" or something like that
-Rey stabs palpatine
-Evil black spirits come from all around and go into Rey's head. Her eyes turn black. Ben yells "nooooooooooooooooo"
-Then force ghosts of Jedis start showing up, starting with the ones we're familiar with, and then more and more and more. Good chance for cameo returns from everyone ever. They also jump into her head.
-There's a super dramatic scene where her face is half black and and half white, with her eyes glowing, everyone fighting in her head
-Finally they all drain away, and she slumps down
-Things proceed as before
-But now the Jedi and Sith are truly gone. No more force ghosts. No more past generations looming over the current. The Jedi and Sith have truly balanced each other out at last
-And to be SUPER daring, and actually give a message to this entire arc of 9 movies, have Rey explain to someone that she has learned what the jedi did wrong all along. They were wrong to focus on calm and ignoring emotion and passion. That's what let the sith break off from them and monopolize that aspect of the force, calling it the "dark side". her new order of force users will be more central, more balanced.



(Final note: I was distracted by two huge parallels between the end of this movie and the end of the far better (imho) Avengers: Endgame. In both cases, a fight appears hopeless until a massive wall of reinforcements show up. And in both cases, the final showdown comes down to the bad guy saying "I am X" and then the hero turning his own attack against him after saying "_I_ am Y". And of course the movies are arguably the climaxes of the two biggest pop culture story arcs of all time, so... as a lifelong Star Wars fan, the comparison does not come out favorably.)
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  #188  
Old 12-23-2019, 02:40 AM
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When I came out of the movie my thought was ...

"Well, I quite liked Kylo Ren's haircut."

Last edited by Galanthus; 12-23-2019 at 02:40 AM.
  #189  
Old 12-23-2019, 06:04 AM
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Terribly disappointed.

The plot was a hot mess.

So, Palpatine, in complete secrecy to everyone in the Galaxy builds (and staffs) a giant armada of Star Destroyers. He also develops a ship sized planet busting weapon, natch. He puts one on every single ship. They are so powerful, but so poorly defended, that any ship with blasters can now take out a Star Destroyer. Anyone remember when they took out a Star Destroyer in RotJ? The admiral sitting back taking a breath because of how much effort it took to manage? No more! Now a ragtag bunch of ships can safely engage with the largest armada of Star Destroyers imaginable.

Palpatine, of course, has a giant armada of Fragile Star Destroyers, and plans to launch all of them (except one) at the same time, from a terribly vulnerable position. The except one is the advance unit they sent out to publicly destroy one planet in order to galvanize the resistance announce his plans to take over the galaxy.

The movie also suffers from force inflation. ANH, was a bunch of underdogs taking on The Empire. Actual underdogs, a group pinned down by a half dozen stormtroopers, escaping through the garbage chute. Now, guys are running through the halls dropping stormtroopers as fast as they show up. Force users are holding ships, curing wounds, transporting devices, stealing souls (or something) and zapping entire armadas. We even have dead guys doing stuff.

I'm also disappointed that the sacrifices and losses were erased. C-3PO has a really touching moment, and then just gets a slightly out of date backup. Chewie is dead, but then he's not. Oops, it was the wrong ship we WATCHED HIM GET INTO then launch. Ok, whatevs.

The acting was good, Leia was very well done, but I'm glad this triple trilogy is over.
  #190  
Old 12-23-2019, 07:09 AM
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Directors Cut will have a deleted scene with Rose saying "So, did Finn ever tell you about the time I saved him from certain suicide and said we'd only won this by saving the people we love? No? I guess he forgot."
Or that time I almost certainly condemned us all by thwarting Finn's attempt to stop the First Order and kill Kylo Ren by selfishly sacrificing himself? IHMO that would have been a much better ending for Finn than the tag-along role he had in this movie. Perhaps he's pissed at Rose for that.
  #191  
Old 12-23-2019, 07:34 AM
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All in all, I liked it. There's really only one way the saga could have ended: The Resistance wins, Ren redeems himself, Rey carries on. There's been so much conjecture and fan wank about her origins over the last few years that nothing would have really been a surprise. Being a Palpatine was...palatable. You could pretty much predict it once it was revealed that the Emperor would return in the trailers. It at least helped explain her Force abilities. I would have loved to hear more of that backstory regarding her parents and their relationship with Palpatine.

I was thrilled by the little things: Luke's X-wing being put back into service was my favorite (the new ones look stupid, IMHO, with a half intake fan on each wing that can't possibly spin). Other parts were disjointented - 3PO losing his memory, for example. I heard Abrams was trying to grant the veteran actors their character wishes and that Anthony Daniels wanted 3PO to be more heroic, so that perhaps explains that whole thing, though it did not fit well into the story. Neither did the whole "I can read the runes but can't tell you" unless that was an allegory to R2D2 literally knowing the entire backstory from the start of Episode 1 but not telling anyone ("Yeah, Luke, listen while we're flying this X-wing together, let me tell you about your father.")
  #192  
Old 12-23-2019, 07:46 AM
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Or that time I almost certainly condemned us all by thwarting Finn's attempt to stop the First Order and kill Kylo Ren by selfishly sacrificing himself? IHMO that would have been a much better ending for Finn than the tag-along role he had in this movie. Perhaps he's pissed at Rose for that.
This is a valid complaint with regard to TLJ, but once it makes it into the movie, you can't just ignore it...oh wait, I guess you can if you are JJ Abrahams.

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  #193  
Old 12-23-2019, 08:03 AM
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This is a valid complaint with regard to TLJ, but once it makes it into the movie, you can't just ignore it...oh wait, I guess you can if you are JJ Abrahams.

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He did not just ignore it, he pretty much undid it The scene at the end where Rose realizes Finn is going to fire the cannon at the command deck while still onboard the Star Destroyer was hilarious to me. I only wish Finn had said something more direct like "don't you dare try to stop me!"
  #194  
Old 12-23-2019, 08:24 AM
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It's clear that Rose could have simply been Zorrii Bliss and Jannah. Jannah was especially useless and unnecessary and Rose could have just been her and done everything she did.

Is it cynical that partway through I began to think they created Jannah so Finnn could have a black girlfriend? It didn't go that way....but for a moment there....
  #195  
Old 12-23-2019, 08:56 AM
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I was kind of going along with it for most of the movie but JJ just kept pushing his luck into excess ridiculousness and I think the jump the shark moment for me was alien horses and their riders galloping along the top of a star destroyer.
  #196  
Old 12-23-2019, 09:20 AM
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We saw the film Saturday. I have not read this thread.

We liked it. I was a bit surprised by the astral projection fights, and that Luke Skywalker had apparently died at some point. It turns out there was another movie, The Last Jedi, that we hadn't seen. From what I've read, the astral projection fights and Luke's death were introduced in that one.

When we went to the concession stand, I noticed one of the employees was dressed in a Rey costume. She seemed to be the only employee in costume. We thought it was cute. On the way out after the film, we saw two people from behind. The female was dressed as Princess Leia from the first film, and the boy was dressed in what appeared to be a cheap stormtrooper Halloween costume (without the helmet). Since we were behind them and a distance away, we couldn't tell their ages; but the boy seemed to be about 10-year-old size or less. The female was taller, and may have been a big sister or something.
  #197  
Old 12-23-2019, 09:29 AM
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To me, the big issue is that I have the distinct impression that TFA and ROS were the first and third segments in a coherent trilogy, but TLJ was some kind of filler-piece that didn't really bridge the gap between 1 and 3.

So coming out of TFA, you'd think the questions that need answering are:

1. Who is Rey?
2. Who is Snoke?
3. Who's really pulling the strings behind Snoke and the First Order?
4. What's up with Kylo Ren? Why did he turn to the Dark Side?


But then in TLJ, you got almost NO real exposition on 2 and 3 at all, and very little on 4 or 1 really. But we get a bunch of nonsense with code breakers, horses, gambling, etc...


So when we get to ROS, we have to basically spin up the answers to all 4 questions really quickly- and they basically broke a "rule" (of mine anyway) to do so, in that I feel that they ought to write things such that a perceptive and close-eyed fan can discern what the plot twist might be from clues in the dialogue, etc... But we got NONE of that- Palpatine still being alive and pulling the strings and Rey being his granddaughter was totally out of left field. Boooo.

And on top of that, we spend way too long on relatively pointless stuff just for the sake of spectacle, and not enough time doing exposition. It's like they didn't ever learn why "Empire Strikes Back" was the best of all 9 in a movie sense- while it has all the effects driven stuff, it was one of the best scripted and plotted movies- it did all it was supposed to do for the trilogy story arc, character development AND managed to do it all without being cheesy or sacrificing plot for effects. I'm guessing it's because they had no pretense of doing anything cute- there were no Ewoks or anything cute in the movie, and no time or effort spent on them, vs. the actual plot.

I did like one thing in particular though, about ROS; Lando managed to STILL be the coolest cat in the galaxy as an old man, and use that confidence and coolness to get shit done when it counted.
  #198  
Old 12-23-2019, 09:56 AM
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Is it cynical that partway through I began to think they created Jannah so Finnn could have a black girlfriend? It didn't go that way....but for a moment there....
But, she managed to find the only other Black guy in the entire universe. What are the odds? (and he's old enough to be her grandfather.)

Apparently the only "race" in the SW universe with less members is Yoda, who is the only one.
  #199  
Old 12-23-2019, 09:56 AM
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To me, the big issue is that I have the distinct impression that TFA and ROS were the first and third segments in a coherent trilogy, but TLJ was some kind of filler-piece that didn't really bridge the gap between 1 and 3.
Exactly right. It seemed like TLJ's problem is that it was trying to erase things from TFA that Rian Johnson didn't like and then ROS was trying to erase things from TLJ that JJ Abrams didn't like and it make it completely muddled.

JJ seemingly wanted a trilogy of fun action blockbusters calling back to the original trilogy, while Rian wanted a trilogy focused on 'grey Jedi'. Either of those trilogies would have been better than the directors going back and forth and cutting each other off at the knees.
  #200  
Old 12-23-2019, 10:05 AM
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I got to see it last night in a mostly empty theater. I thought that TFA and TLJ were fun popcorn films that you couldn't think about too much and that TLJ was by far the dumber of the two.

ROS was made in the same vein. I spent the first of the movie going "Well, that happened" finally I was able to get into the move for the last two-thirds. In the end my summary of the plot to a buddy who'd seen it on friday was "So, Palpatine wins and all the skywalkers are dead?" "Yep, pretty much". I am glad to have seen it in theaters and I'll buy it when it comes out on video but its a generic 8/10 that will probably rarely get watched.
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