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  #251  
Old 12-27-2019, 10:39 AM
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The Holdo maneuver did sort of break Star Wars space battles, but it was so incredible cool both in building and relieving tension and in visual/audio brilliance that I forgive it. Presumably some explanation can or has been made that retcons away the SW-breaking nature of it.
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Old 12-27-2019, 12:27 PM
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Apparently, when they show the Ewoks at the end, you can see that the star destroyer up above their moon has been destroyed by "the Holdo maneuver". So it got used again.
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Old 12-27-2019, 12:31 PM
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Ian McDiarmid's performance as Palpatine in the prequels is what I enjoyed most about the prequels.

That being said I think he(and the character) was wasted in Rise of Skywalker(ROS). Palpatine's return should have been the focus of the whole sequel trilogy not just one movie. ROS felt like they tried cramming 2(Or 3) movies worth of plot into one film.(I did enjoy it though.)

It's obvious there is not one creative force behind Star Wars and that each movie is written on its owns without any thought of where to develop the next film. I wonder where there go from here with the Star Wars franchise.
  #254  
Old 12-27-2019, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Mahaloth View Post
Apparently, when they show the Ewoks at the end, you can see that the star destroyer up above their moon has been destroyed by "the Holdo maneuver". So it got used again.
How could you tell that was destroyed by the Holdo maneuver, and not conventional combat?
  #255  
Old 12-27-2019, 12:48 PM
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Doh, you're right. I'm conflating it with Luke's first fight with Vader (when he loses his hand).
Also not dressed in white.
  #256  
Old 12-27-2019, 12:49 PM
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How could you tell that was destroyed by the Holdo maneuver, and not conventional combat?
I do remember thinking that's how it looked, too---sort of a whiteish glowing line bisecting the SD. I quickly resolved to ignore it.
  #257  
Old 12-27-2019, 01:15 PM
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I know I've seen something really similar to the Emperor being suspended by a giant mechanical arm in the middle of an arena before. It is concept art from ROTJ, something from the EU, or something else? I mentioned it on Facebook, and a friend agreed they'd seen something similar as well. Maybe in a video game?
maybe you're thinking of Spacehunter: Adventures in the Forbidden Zone

https://fictionmachine.files.wordpre...ehunter_02.jpg
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Old 12-27-2019, 01:51 PM
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I give it a solid meh, better than TLJ, but nothing special.
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  #259  
Old 12-27-2019, 02:01 PM
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How could you tell that was destroyed by the Holdo maneuver, and not conventional combat?
It looks cut in half.
  #260  
Old 12-27-2019, 02:10 PM
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I always thought it was the giving into hatred rather than the actual killing that led to turning to the dark side. Presumably for Rey or Luke before her to successfully strike down old Sheev they would have had to use some kind of inner rage to have enough strength to strike successfully. A cool dispassionate attempt would have probably failed. On the other hand, if it was somehow possible to kill Palpatine without flying into a rage, that wouldn't lead to falling to the dark side.
Yeah, I'm sure you're right. I just find that a hilariously messed-up philosophy. Kill as many people as you'd like--even after you learn a lot of them were conscripted as children and want to escape--as long as you're not angry when you kill them. But be angry enough about the Granddaddy of Genocide that you kill him? Oooh, dark side time!
  #261  
Old 12-28-2019, 07:57 AM
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Loved it. Hit all the right beats for me. Ridley was great.

Did I want that particular BBE? Not really. But it really did nothing to diminish my enjoyment, because I'm both an adult who knows the world doesn't just revolve around what I want; AND because I'm still that 7 y.o. kid coming out of the cinema making lightsaber noises, and there was some cool 'saber action in this one.


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In the theater, I found Kylo Ren's reforged helmet kind of distractingly fake looking. I mean, the red lines in the creases looked like glowy plastic.
I thought it was a lovely shout-out to the Japanese roots of the series.

Last edited by MrDibble; 12-28-2019 at 08:00 AM.
  #262  
Old 12-28-2019, 08:11 AM
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There was Yaddle and now the child in the Mandalorian.
vs Mace Windu and possibly some others.
There's Willrow Hood.

Yes, that guy totally has a canon name and backstory.
  #263  
Old 12-28-2019, 08:36 AM
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It's obvious there is not one creative force behind Star Wars and that each movie is written on its owns without any thought of where to develop the next film. I wonder where there go from here with the Star Wars franchise.
This is really the fundamental disconnect for these three movies. Even though I enjoyed them - and really enjoyed some of the turn-it-on-its-head of TLJ - not having an overall plan really worked against consistent tone.

It's encouraging that the later announcements of Rian Johnson to put together a trilogy and the Game of Thrones guys - since rescinded - to do one. People may disagree with the choices, sure, but the idea that one creative force should oversee an entire arc is a good one that should be helpful.
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Old 12-28-2019, 10:01 AM
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I though the Force Awakens and Rise of Skywalker were ok movies, but ultimately very forgettable and mediocre. Last Jed is my favourite of the new trilogy. Despite some serious missteps, I thought Rian Johnson was taking it in a very interesting direction, and I especially liked Luke's arc in that movie. The trilogy needed a more solid overall vision and direction.
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Old 12-28-2019, 10:10 AM
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I loved the movie. Like any other "wrap-up" movie, there are people who are going to hate it because the ending wasn't the ending THEY wanted.
There's also people who didn't have any preconceived ideas on how the trilogy should end and just thought it was a bad movie with poor pacing, editing, story-writing and fairly lackluster action sequences (undercut by the poor pacing and editing).

The people who seemed to like it the most are people leaning into the nostalgia factor and seeing this or that character get their moment.
  #266  
Old 12-28-2019, 10:34 AM
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There's also people who didn't have any preconceived ideas on how the trilogy should end and just thought it was a bad movie with poor pacing, editing, story-writing and fairly lackluster action sequences (undercut by the poor pacing and editing).

The people who seemed to like it the most are people leaning into the nostalgia factor and seeing this or that character get their moment.
Agreed. Maybe those people disliked how the movie seemed like five scripts fused together. How it had an ancient dagger that marked a spot that only just existed a few decades earlier. How every plot point was we need the thing to do the thing. How Kylo's growth happened in seconds. How Rey solemnly buries Leia's saber in a place she never saw or visited. I could go on. My disappointment is with the movie as it was, not what I wanted it to be because I honestly had no notions of what I wanted it to be.
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Old 12-28-2019, 10:35 AM
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Face it. The Star Wars 9 movie series has one great movie (and it isn't Empire. Giant space worms? A non-ending ending?). The entire universe is living off the reputation of that one 1977 movie.

I admit I'm part of the problem. I keep expecting them to make a good one again. I see them all. I own them all. But none of them are that good.
  #268  
Old 12-29-2019, 08:32 AM
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Maybe those people disliked how the movie seemed like five scripts fused together. How it had an ancient dagger that marked a spot that only just existed a few decades earlier. How every plot point was we need the thing to do the thing. How Kylo's growth happened in seconds. How Rey solemnly buries Leia's saber in a place she never saw or visited. I could go on. My disappointment is with the movie as it was, not what I wanted it to be because I honestly had no notions of what I wanted it to be.
Yes, that is exactly what I didn't like about all three of the new films. Plus every new film seemed to shit on the last.


For all their flaws, the original trilogy (and Rogue One) at least had a cohesive story across all three films. It developed the relationships between the core characters (Luke, Leia, Han, Chewie, C3P0, and R2D2).
It had a consistent enemy (the Galactic Empire, run by Palpatine, with Vader as his enforcer).
The battles had a strategic logic (in the context of the Star Wars universe) and grand scale.
Characters that needed growth and development, grew and developed over the course of the three films - Luke becoming a Jedi and his relationship with his father. Han and Leia's angry romance. Chewbacca basically staying a sidekick and the droids as comic relief.
When they introduced a new character (like Lando), his story continued into the next film. Or in other cases (like Jaba or Palpatine), these were characters who were at least referenced as significant plot points previously. They just didn't materialize out of thin air.
Lucas picked one kind of film for each movie to be. A New Hope is a group of heroes coming together to rescue the princess. Empire is a chase film/road trip movie (with a training film layered on). Jedi is a Guns of Navarone style commando war movie.



The problem I have with the latest trilogy is basically what you describe. It's a bunch of disjointed scenes, bad storytelling, and half-assed reveals disguised by cool action scenes and snappy JJ Abrams dialogue.

Each act is just finding some McGuffin to direct us to where the next action set piece will take place.
Has Poe Dameron been in the same room with Ray for more than ten seconds?
Why does Rey believe Kylo is anything but a irredeemable monster?
Every "battle plan" seems to consist of "oh we can just sneak a team of dipshits with no military training aboard some giant base chock full of stormtroopers and blast their way to the magic button that blows up the fleet or whatever.
How did Palpatine create a fleet of thousands of star destroyers without anyone noticing? I feel like you would actually need the resources of a galactic empire to accomplish that.
Why did the First Order need to hollow out a planet for their planet-killing weapon when they could have just grafted awkwardly large planet-killing guns to some ancient star destroyers?
What did Luke know about Rey's lineage and when?
Why is there a knife carved to look like some Death Star wreckage that points to a map of the secret Sith base? How did anyone know where to stand to line this thing up? Did they hide the map in the wreckage or was in on the Death Star when it blew and someone hunted down all the pieces to find it?
Why should a care that Rose only got a minute and a half of screen time? Was she important to the plot? Boba Fett only got like ten minutes of screen and fans actually like him
Why would Rey bury Luke and Leia's lightsabers on a planet she's never been, on a farm where Luke spent the first 19 years of his life trying his best to get away from? Because that's where Luke was raised by two people he cared so much about that the sight of their burnt skeletons elicited a "well...nothing left for me here."
I could go on..




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Where the sequels did have originality they often invalidated the SW universe, like the asinine Holdo Maneuver. Rogue One was a much better movie than any of the sequels.
What is the issue that people have with the "Holdo Maneuver"? Certainly ramming ships suicidally into each other is a legitimate tactic in warfare. Remember that the Executor was disabled in Jedi after an A-Wing crashed through the bridge while the shields were down.

I'd also expect it to be a relatively rare tactic because a) you need a ship of sufficient size to bust through the enemy ship's shields and b) such large ships are relatively rare and valuable to the Rebellion.
  #269  
Old 12-29-2019, 09:07 AM
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What is the issue that people have with the "Holdo Maneuver"? Certainly ramming ships suicidally into each other is a legitimate tactic in warfare. Remember that the Executor was disabled in Jedi after an A-Wing crashed through the bridge while the shields were down.

I'd also expect it to be a relatively rare tactic because a) you need a ship of sufficient size to bust through the enemy ship's shields and b) such large ships are relatively rare and valuable to the Rebellion.
It's also easy to fanwank that the super-mega-Star Destroyer she rammed was uniquely vulnerable to that kind of attack. Really, it didn't bother me at all - and it produced one of the top 5 visuals in Star Wars history.
  #270  
Old 12-29-2019, 10:18 AM
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How did Palpatine create a fleet of thousands of star destroyers without anyone noticing? I feel like you would actually need the resources of a galactic empire to accomplish that.
Not really. As I brought up in a SW thread years ago, the Star Wars setting has 1.) highly advanced robotics and artificial intelligence 2.) cheap portable antigravity and 3.) extremely fast FTL. These three things should result in a post-scarcity, post-singularity society. Want a fleet of a million Star Destroyers or a thousand Death Stars? Drop an automated droid factory* on a suitable planet. Set it up to build mining and refining droids and use the materials that they mine to build more droid factories. When you have enough of those, start disassembling the planet and solar system to build your death fleet. Any moderately wealthy person should be able to do it. Lando probably would have had enough money himself just by selling Cloud City. The problem with Star Wars is that everyone doesn't have a gigantic robotic death fleet.

*(as was used to build battle droids in the prequel movies)


(ETA: and if you need human crews for your ships for some reason, you can clone them by the millions--just one more job for the army of droids.)

Last edited by Darren Garrison; 12-29-2019 at 10:20 AM.
  #271  
Old 12-29-2019, 12:04 PM
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How did Palpatine create a fleet of thousands of star destroyers without anyone noticing? I feel like you would actually need the resources of a galactic empire to accomplish that.

Why did the First Order need to hollow out a planet for their planet-killing weapon when they could have just grafted awkwardly large planet-killing guns to some ancient star destroyers?
These two, I'm okay with. Palpatine sets up on an uninhabited world with a droid-run factory and a cloning facility, and lets both run for 30 years, he could pretty easily come up with a fleet that big. And the First Order didn't have the technology to miniaturize a Death Star canon to that degree.

If nothing else, the film deserves props for making the big doomsday weapons something other than a giant battlestation.

Quote:
What is the issue that people have with the "Holdo Maneuver"? Certainly ramming ships suicidally into each other is a legitimate tactic in warfare. Remember that the Executor was disabled in Jedi after an A-Wing crashed through the bridge while the shields were down.

I'd also expect it to be a relatively rare tactic because a) you need a ship of sufficient size to bust through the enemy ship's shields and b) such large ships are relatively rare and valuable to the Rebellion.
I was writing up an explanation for why the Holdo Maneuver is dumb, when I realized a perfect explanation for why nobody had done it before.

Up 'til now, hyperspace was a perfect escape. If you could jump, you got away - nobody could tell where you went. If you were in a tight spot, and you could jump to lightspeed, you jumped away. The Empire, by introducing hyperspace tracking, broke that paradigm. Jumping to hyperspace isn't jumping to safety anymore. If having a ship that can jump to lightspeed doesn't make you safe anymore, you might as well use the ship as a weapon.

It still doesn't answer the question, "Why not strap hyperdrives to asteroids?" though. Or make giant starship-shaped slugs of metal and put hyperdrives on those. But it does make that specific scene work better for me.
  #272  
Old 12-29-2019, 02:16 PM
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As I brought up in a SW thread years ago, the Star Wars setting has 1.) highly advanced robotics and artificial intelligence
I dunno; this is a society that hasn't mastered the USB drive yet.
  #273  
Old 12-29-2019, 04:37 PM
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I dunno; this is a society that hasn't mastered the USB drive yet.
The First Order had the tech and wherewithal to transform an entire planet into an FTL-capable battleship that could absorb a star and transfer its energy into a weapon that fires across hyperspace and destroys multiple planets in a single shot.

We're talking at least a 2 on the Kardashev scale.

Last edited by Smapti; 12-29-2019 at 04:37 PM.
  #274  
Old 12-29-2019, 07:03 PM
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The First Order had the tech and wherewithal to transform an entire planet into an FTL-capable battleship that could absorb a star and transfer its energy into a weapon that fires across hyperspace and destroys multiple planets in a single shot.
Call me when they can transfer a simple message without needing fifteen minutes and some giant data cables (or a blurry 96 bit rate hologram)

Last edited by Jophiel; 12-29-2019 at 07:04 PM.
  #275  
Old 12-29-2019, 07:55 PM
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Instead, we get Luke's one major accomplishment - restoring the Jedi order - undone in the first movie in the trilogy, and his other major accomplishment - killing the Emperor - undone in the third. At least he still has "letting a mass murderer go to Jedi heaven" to fall back on.
Luke didn't kill the Emperor, though. Vader did that. Luke's mission was never to kill Palpy, it was to confront Vader. His personal motives were to turn his father back to the light. He succeeded, and that can't ever be undone. I really don't understand this particular criticism.
  #276  
Old 12-30-2019, 07:56 AM
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Kevin Smith gives a pretty good synapsis of the film [basically SPOILERS for the entire film]:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UnqNZhnGZs

There are a couple of times where he's talking about some of the scenes with Leia and Han Solo where he starts sobbin' like a little bitch with a skinned knee and shit.
  #277  
Old 12-30-2019, 08:44 AM
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The other discussion on his channel is much better, since it includes Marc Bernardin...who is a bit more critical.

As Kevin Smith says at the beginning of the video you posted: he doesn't really do reviews...

Verstuurd vanaf mijn moto g(6) met Tapatalk
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Old 12-30-2019, 10:44 AM
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Why does Rey believe Kylo is anything but a irredeemable monster?
They have a deep psychic connection. I thought that was made quite obvious, I'm surprised you missed it.
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Old 12-30-2019, 12:59 PM
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Watching the movie was an enjoyable enough two hours, but on the whole it wasn't anything special. There were strategic missteps built into the premise, some of which may have been the least-bad answer to structural problems arising from not having planned out the final trilogy from the start, and having to adjust to the whiplash of different writer-director visions between Abrams and Johnson.

Ultimately, though, I could look past those if the movie itself was entertaining. Unfortunately I think that Rise of Skywalker failed on a basic block-and-tackle storytelling level. The only element of the movie that seemed to build over time was the relationship between Rey and Kylo, which on the whole I thought was handled pretty well. Virtually everything else consisted of disposable "gee whiz" moments that weren't really earned or structured to fit together well. It was as if Abrams came up with a boatload of images that he wanted to include that would evoke nostalgia for past movies or otherwise push that "Star Wars feeling" button, and then just strung them together without much thought for making a coherent movie out of them.

At no point in the movie did I ever feel that the characters were struggling with having to make a decision, with the stakes of that decision made clear to the audience. At no point did it feel like the characters' actions were motivated by their personalities or past experiences -- everything that happened was the result of the director pulling the strings, arranging the action figures as required for the next set piece and then yelling "action".

The result is that the film felt bumpy and illogical. But it's not conformity with reality that's required -- I can swallow a lot in a science fiction film. It's conformity with the rules of storytelling.

For example, there's a scene where Poe runs into an old flame / ex-criminal partner, Zorii. They fight, very briefly, and then Zorii's on Poe's side, helping him out. They talk about how they still don't trust each other, but it's never shown, and glossed aside pretty quickly. We learn Zorii has a valuable resource -- the medallion that will let her get off the planet. Within minutes she has turned the medallion over to Poe to help him get onto the Star Destroyer. It doesn't take much for her to hand over her only lifeline. The medallion is used in the next scene and then vanishes from the movie.

Later we see the planet that Zorii's on destroyed. So there's a consequence; she has died in order to aid the Rebellion and Poe personally. Poe doesn't make this connection. Minutes later Zorii shows up, with no explanation of how she escaped, and becomes part of the crew for the big battle at the end. There's no emotional resonance, no "You left me to die!", no inspiring sacrifice. It's just a bunch of things that happen, because that's the kind of thing that's supposed to happen in these movies.

There are countless examples of this sort of thing. Stuff happens because the guy pulling the strings thinks it will be thrilling for the audience, not because any of the characters would act this way. There are sacrifices, but they're virtually all unwound within minutes -- the Chewbacca fake-out is particularly egregious. There's no risk to anything.

Running into Lando in disguise is fun. But why wouldn't Leia tell Rey's party that Lando is on the planet and there to help them? Why wouldn't they just meet up? The only answer is that it's potentially more fun for the audience; there's no in-world answer that makes sense. Why does Rey have a two-minute fight with Dark Rey? Again, all for the audience -- the encounter doesn't have any effect on the characters, there's no revelation like Luke had in his similar encounter with Vader on Dagobah. It's all icing, no cake.

The image of Rey pinwheeling into the air and slicing the wing off of Kylo's tie fighter is awesome and memorable. But what was Kylo's plan there, to just buzz really low and knock her over? Was there any reason for this to happen other than "it looks cool, and gets us to the next confrontation scene in the desert?" I suppose if you put in the effort you could come up with something, but it would be adding material to the movie, not discovering stuff that was put in there deliberately.

When a character does something or says something in a piece of fiction, there needs to be two reasons for it. One, it has to be fun for the audience. Two, it needs to make sense in the context of the story. I feel like Abrams focuses entirely on the first thing and just assumes that will be enough. And to be fair, if you move fast enough, throw enough special effects in, and particularly if you have this deep well of nostalgia to draw on, then you can get away with that. For me at least, though, the good feeling fades quickly, like a sugar rush, and after an hour or so you're just left with that empty calorie feeling.
  #280  
Old 12-30-2019, 03:53 PM
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Well, The Chosen One was supposed to bring balance back to the force by destroying the Sith, which I assumed Vader/Anakin did in ROTJ by throwing Palpatine into the reactor core and making him explode. But seeing that Palpatine survived and is now ďall of the SithĒ, (his words), and he ultimately commits suicide by continually blasting lightning at Reyís lightsaber so that it reflects back at him, that would make Palpatine The Chosen One.
I like that thought.

But I keep thinking that all of the Jedi needed to be dead in order to all work together with Rey in the showdown. Didn't Vader do the critical parts of that?

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Maybe I'm easily please, but I absolutely loved it.

When Luke raised the X Wing echoing that amazing scene from Empire, I actually cried.
Definitely the film's best moment.

Overall, I enjoyed it. It did enough.
  #281  
Old 12-30-2019, 04:03 PM
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Ebb: Amazing. Every word of what you just said was right.
  #282  
Old 12-30-2019, 04:49 PM
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Ebb: Amazing. Every word of what you just said was right.
Hey, thank you!
  #283  
Old 12-30-2019, 06:46 PM
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Just saw it. Man, what a cliche. It was OK and I had fun watching it, but every major plot point resolved in the most utterly predictable way, and a lot of the dialogue was execrable. The Kylo Ren/Rey arc was the only storyline that had some development and left me guessing untll the end (though the final scenes were utterly predictable again).

As a general fan of movies where bad guys blow up in fireballs without much else going on, I can forgive a lot, and I didn't hate this movie. It wasn't truly awful the way Attack of the Clones was--I almost walked out of that one. This one was just meh. I'd watch it again, but I wouldn't pay for it.
  #284  
Old 12-31-2019, 03:50 AM
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Courtesy of Slate; The Lost Diaries of General Hux.

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Originally Posted by Armitage Hux
Dear Diary,

Am getting more and more annoyed with Kylo Ren. He is constantly stomping around the ship with his cloak billowing about him. Why canít I get my cloak to billow like that? Several laundry droids have tried a number of methods to make my cloak billow in that impressive manner, e.g. sewing weights into the lining. Their miserable failures have been noted.
It's a fun and amusing little read.
  #285  
Old 12-31-2019, 05:12 AM
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I think the difference between me and some of you is that "Because it looks cool" is all the reason I need for something to happen.
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Old 12-31-2019, 05:43 AM
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I think the difference between me and some of you is that "Because it looks cool" is all the reason I need for something to happen.
I agree - if it works. If we're complaining, then obviously it didn't look cool enough.
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Old 12-31-2019, 06:16 PM
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Don't understand the people who strongly dislike this movie. It was pretty much the same as all the other Star Wars movies. The ending was predictable but that was no big deal. And of course there were plenty of JJ Abrams lens flares.
  #288  
Old 12-31-2019, 07:35 PM
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I think the difference between me and some of you is that "Because it looks cool" is all the reason I need for something to happen.
I went in expecting the pew pews, and I got the pew pews. It met my expectations.

I went into Rian Johnson's movie expecting the pew pews, and I got some surprising commentary on how empires are built on the comfort of the wealthy, and on how the best-intentioned bloodline-nobility religions cause more harm than they prevent, plus the pew pews. It exceeded my expectations.
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Old 12-31-2019, 08:35 PM
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I went in expecting the pew pews, and I got the pew pews. It met my expectations.

I went into Rian Johnson's movie expecting the pew pews, and I got some surprising commentary on how empires are built on the comfort of the wealthy, and on how the best-intentioned bloodline-nobility religions cause more harm than they prevent, plus the pew pews. It exceeded my expectations.
TLJ would have been great if the characters hadnít been so stupid at just the right moment. Drop the yo'mamma jokes, give Hux his dignity back, let Kylo go five minutes without a tantrum, and maybe let Holdo have a grasp on Crew Resource Management. Then they never end up in a situation where Rose has to save Finn from saving everyone else and we can cut the movie at 2-hours even with Rey pondering Kylo's offer in the throne room, roll credits.
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Old 12-31-2019, 10:18 PM
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Liked it but didn't love it. A few criticisms/questions popped into my head while I was watching.

The pacing was too frantic. Remember when Luke and Ben chartered the Millenium Falcon to take them to Alderaan? During the journey, there was time for a game of holographic chess and for Luke to practice with his lightsaber. Now, when KR uses his force connection to discover where Rey is, he's on the scene about a minute later. That's barely enough time to get his helmet and cape on.

Rey seems to be lost and feel that she has no family or close friends, but she brings too much of it on herself, and goes off on her own all the time. When everyone else is saying "we have to get out of here now" she goes wandering off across the desert without a word and Chewbacca gets captured when he goes to get her. It seemed like a lazy way to build tension; have a character who never shares anything and expect me to feel sympathy for her when it leads to trouble. Compare that with Luke in RotJ telling his friends that Vader is on the Star Destroyer they're passing, or telling Leia that the he has to go confront him.

After spending the whole movie trying to find the secret path to Sith HQ, when the rebels get there there's a whole fleet of ships waiting for them, and with full crews. Was it explained how they got there?

If anger and fear lead to the Dark Side of the Force, Rey should have been easy pickings. Is there a more scared and pissed-off character in any of the movies?


In a way, I'm still sort of stunned that it's over. I was 11 when the first movie came out and it was the best thing ever. After it was a huge success, somewhere I read that there were going to be eight more movies; a trilogy of trilogies! But if they only made one movie every three years, it was going to take until 2001 to see them all, and that felt like forever. When I was sitting in the theater waiting for that opening chord, and the title, and the text crawling into the distance, I realized I'll never have that moment again. There'll be other movies in the SW universe, but the holy 9 are done. I'm glad so much of the cast lived long enough to see if finished.
  #291  
Old 12-31-2019, 10:42 PM
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TLJ would have been great if the characters hadnít been so stupid at just the right moment. Drop the yo'mamma jokes, give Hux his dignity back, let Kylo go five minutes without a tantrum, and maybe let Holdo have a grasp on Crew Resource Management. Then they never end up in a situation where Rose has to save Finn from saving everyone else and we can cut the movie at 2-hours even with Rey pondering Kylo's offer in the throne room, roll credits.
TLJ still doesn't make sense to me. The First Order is chasing the remnants of the Resistance fleet at sub-light speed. Meanwhile Finn and Rose can just sort of jet out to some casino planet and yadayadya yada.

But the First Order isn't low on fuel or short on ships. They couldn't hyperspace ahead and cut them off?
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Old 01-01-2020, 06:06 AM
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Finn has found a new battle--Social Justice Wars.
  #293  
Old 01-01-2020, 06:37 AM
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is that guy with the stupid fake voice going to do another 2 hour video telling us how bad this movie was?
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Old 01-01-2020, 08:28 AM
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is that guy with the stupid fake voice going to do another 2 hour video telling us how bad this movie was?
Those take awhile to make, but here is Mike(Mr. Plinkett) talking freely about the movie for over an hour.
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Old 01-01-2020, 11:55 AM
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The funny scene to me was when they ran a cable from ship to ship to transfer data. With all that tech they can't do it wirelessly? No bluetooth?
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Old 01-01-2020, 01:33 PM
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TLJ still doesn't make sense to me. The First Order is chasing the remnants of the Resistance fleet at sub-light speed. Meanwhile Finn and Rose can just sort of jet out to some casino planet and yadayadya yada.

But the First Order isn't low on fuel or short on ships. They couldn't hyperspace ahead and cut them off?
I donít disagree, but Iím just thinking generally in terms of what took me from a willing suspension of disbelief and "itís just the premise, roll with it," vs. "these people are too stupid to live and I donít know why I should care if they do or donít."

Johnson wanted to have a long-distance chase feature prominently in his movie, a la Master and Commander? Okay, Iíll grant the premise even though a thoughtful line of dialogue or better yet, a perfectly natural exchange of dialogue, about how the most obvious (to the viewer) solution wouldnít work because of *stuff* where *stuff* doesnít break any of the previous films would be nice. But I get it, sometimes you just have to roll with it for this kind of movie.

What I canít roll with is a series of plot contrivances born out of imbecilic characters, at least some of whom weíre supposed to think of as "smart" or at least cleaver. Thatís what ruined TLJ for me. Even the grossly out of place bombers I was fine with. What I was not fine with was Leia's apparent helplessness and inability to control the forces under her command (even if that meant leaving Poe with his proverbial you-know-what hanging out and about to get it smacked), even as we are supposed to get the impression sheís some great leader. What Johnson apparently wanted me to feel about so many characters, and how I actually felt, was so frequently at odds that it took me out of the movie and all I could do was pick it apart.

So Iím trying to limit my "nice to haves" to the bare essentials, to what it would have taken to keep me in the movie and maybe pay to see the next and final installment in the trilogy. As opposed to just reading up on spoilers and sniping at the franchise from an online message board.

Last edited by ASL v2.0; 01-01-2020 at 01:35 PM.
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Old 01-01-2020, 02:51 PM
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Hooray!
The Emperor is finally taken down!
Well, except that's how ROTJ ended. Three wasted movies just to take us back to where we started, except they killed off the best characters.

In the end it isn't quite a remake, more like a regurgitation of TOS. There are few scenes in these movies that weren't done in TOS or the prequels. But tis is what Disney does these days. They go looking to make a buck off of old properties by remaking them with flashy new technology.

Chop Suey Order: I think if you cut these movies into individual scenes you could watch them in random order and it wouldn't be any less coherent. It probably doesn't even matter to keep scenes from different movies separate. Throw them all together and when you've gotten over two hours just stop. That's one of the trilogy. It wouldn't really matter what scene you're on. The only thing that may make a difference is if William's score is giving you the right note to go out on.
Continuity is of no value in these movies. Actions have no consequences. Han's dead, except when he's back. They killed Chewie, except they didn't. Rey left her desert planet, only to find herself on others. Snoke was killed, but do that as many times as you like, they'll make more. The Empire is gone, except they have even bigger ships and now they are back in control. Even though they are inexplicably back in control we are repeating their comeback with even bigger ships, I guess to destroy every single inhabited planet in the old republic!

There are many hundred, maybe thousands, of super large planet killing ships crewed by tens of millions. If you wanted to find the Emperor there must be dozens of planets working on his fleet. Just stop by any one of them and they probably have a ship leaving for there every four hours.

So, in the end didn't the Emperor win?
He wanted Rey to kill him but she wouldn't do it. And people are saying he was stupid because if he would have just stopped shooting force lightning at Rey he wouldn't have died. But wasn't that just a way to get her to kill him?
Seems like this was his plan: Sow discontent with the republic and gain control. Subjugate the galaxy and destroy a few planets. Go into hiding for three decades to build a fleet with a few million stolen children. Maybe do some more planet destroying. Then become a pretty young woman and I'm guessing hang around in the cantina and be the center of attraction, maybe join the band and take up a singing career.
Shouldn't we be expecting the Emperor to start taking over Rey's body? Or maybe he needed a female descendent to carry his next incarnation? Which is creepier? I'm thinking the baby one.

Matt Smith, the Eleventh Doctor, was slated to be the bad guy for this movie. He could have been fantastic but they should have started introducing him in the first movie. Instead they cut him in favor of dredging up the Emperor and doing back flips to explain how he got there.

Reylo shippers got what they wanted, They should have given them more and got those two married.
[fanfic]
Mr. and Mrs. Ben and Rey Palpatine Kenobi Skywalker Organa Solo. They should have kissed and then ended the movie with a photo montage to "Happy Together" by the Turtles.
Photo 1: Rey and Ben getting married by Yoda.
Photo 2: Rey threw the bouquet which is caught by Nien Nunb, who is making eyes at Lando.
Photo 3: Thanksgiving Dinner. Ben And Rey get ready to carve the turkey. Padme is rising out of her seat accusingly thrusting a pear at a Vader robed Anikin across the table. Asoko has her hand on his shoulder defending him. Luke and Leia are embarrassed. Han looks board. Grampa Palpatine in a bib having a hard time with a spoonful of broth.
Photo 3: Outside, kids are playing, one is falling off a cliff but Rey and Ben (shirtless) are having too much fun and don't seem to care. Falling never killed anyone, except Mace.
Photo 4: Night time camping. Rey and ben are looking lovingly at each other, Two of the kids are clashing lightsabers, one red, one blue. The third kid is between them roasting a marshmallow on a stick from the saber heat.
[/fanfic]


It's an insult to call this the Skywalker saga. Don't put candles in a cow-pie and tell me it's birthday cake.
If anything this was the Palpatine saga. Probably the main character I care the least about. The Skywalkers turned out to be a bunch of nobodies that couldn't hold their force. Whenever they try to do something big they die.
If they wanted to do a "Skywalker Saga" the Skywalkers should have been front and center. When The Force Awakens started it was clear that this was about new characters and the old ones had just a supporting part. I rolled with it. It's a big galaxy with lots of interesting people in it. Only, there wasn't any point to it all when they are just inferior rehashes of the old characters.

There might be a JJ cut or even George cut but I can't imagine it would be worth the effort. Too many bad choices.
Someone must have thought Rey killing Chewie with Sith powers was a good idea. I hear people saying that would have been powerful character development for Rey. Maybe in movies with introspection. Even though, it was brutal enough the way it is. For one thing, everyone loves Chewbacca. Rey is being promoted as a positive role model for children, so none of this sits well. It's worse then if Luke went around stabbing Ewoks just for sport.

For all the taking back of events they could have kept Luke alive at the start of this film. So many crazy force powers going on here why not throw in another. They are just making up crap as they go along, only they aren't good at that. It might have made things easier.
I love her, but it's crazy that Carrie Fisher had more time in the movie she wasn't around to film then in the previous two she was there for. Leia is maybe a bad choice to be a Jedi. Her character was always a bit of a hot head and too committed to a cause. She is a fighter for what's right. She doesn't seem the type to just put her trust in the force and let it lead where it may. It would have taken about a day for her to turn to the dark side. She should have been the one to rally the galaxy to put down the Empire once and for all.

Finn, we are supposed to believe has force powers. Except now it's all about the blood line and Rey. Maybe like Dracula has Renfield, Rey has Finn and without her he has nothing.
Maybe the whole force being for everyone isn't such a hot idea. If it rises above empathy most people would misuse it. There would be a good deal of force choking and mind tricking going on for petty reasons.

Rey claims the Skywalker name. It would have been funny if Uncle Ben and Aunt Beru clones where there as part of some weird backup plan. Since they've got nothing to do now might as well take up moister farming again. They tell Rey to get to work.
Hell, make the old woman be Shmi Skywalker, because why the hell bother making sense now

Last edited by Aquadementia; 01-01-2020 at 02:56 PM.
  #298  
Old 01-01-2020, 03:06 PM
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So, in the end didn't the Emperor win?
He wanted Rey to kill him but she wouldn't do it. And people are saying he was stupid because if he would have just stopped shooting force lightning at Rey he wouldn't have died. But wasn't that just a way to get her to kill him?
No. The sound of the force lightning was loud enough to almost drown her out, but if you listen carefully, you can hear her shouting, "Stop hitting yourself! Stop hitting yourself!"
  #299  
Old 01-01-2020, 03:17 PM
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I think the difference between me and some of you is that "Because it looks cool" is all the reason I need for something to happen.
If it's keeping me in the moment then it works. If my mind starts drifting to "Wait, what about...?" then it's not working. I have enough things to do; I don't pay money and take time out to intentionally cross my arms and glare at the screen and find things to bitch about, I go to be entertained. I'm happy to be entertained by spaceships or superheroes or dragons or car chases but, if the movie isn't entertaining me enough for me to overlook the inevitable dumb/improbable dumb parts, then the movie is failing in "looking cool". This movie consistently failed in that regard.
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Old 01-01-2020, 03:22 PM
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I know he sold the company but I wonder does Lucas still get some money from each movie because it always says the characters were created by him? He could have signed away any future money when he sold the company.
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