Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-07-2020, 09:10 AM
Hamlet is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Where the Wild Things Are
Posts: 14,817

NFL - OFFSEASON of Mist and mellow fruitfulness


Gotta get my Keats on.


Well, the Kansas City Chiefs are the Super Bowl Champs and damn, they look good. Congrats to Andy Reid, he's been so good for so long, it's nice to see him finally win the big game. I hope he's as good a person as he appears to be at first glance. And, although it's beating a dead horse at this point, I still smile anytime I read about how the Bears could have had Patrick Mahomes instead of Mitch Trubisky.

It should be an interesting off-season, especially with some huge names at the QB position possibly being free agents. Tom Brady. Phillip Rivers. Drew Brees. I'm guessing Brees resigns for another year, but it looks like Brady and Rivers could very well be with new teams next year. Add in the likes of Marcus Mariota, Ryan Tannehill, and Teddy Bridgewater and there could be a ton of QB's available in free agency. We know teams like the Raiders (ah, John Gruden), Dolphins, and Titans will likely be in the market. Should be fun to see who gets overpaid.

Then you have guys like Dak Prescott and Jameis Winston who will likely get the franchise tag as they negotiate long term contracts. I will smile when the Cowboys make Dak the highest paid player in the NFL.

The team I think has a very interesting off-season is the Titans. They have to decide if one outlier year is enough to pay Ryan Tannehill top 5 QB money (I'm guessing they franchise him to get another year of evidence). They have to decide whether to make Derrick Henry the highest paid RB in the league (they will, but they shouldn't). They also have a pretty good young defense that could use improving.

Aside from the QB situation, this offseason will likely have to deal with the collective bargaining agreement. The NFL will likely want to add a game, and the NFLPA will likely want to reduce Goodell's powers to suspend/punish players, allow pot smoking, have even less training camp, and cut further into revenue sharing. It should be fun to see what each side gets in negotiations. Or if we get a work stoppage in the fall.

Then there will be the combine and draft. I'm a bit shocked how much the draft has grown in public awareness. It's kinda fun though, guessing who will be a stud (Jerry Jeudy), who will be a bust (any first round QB not named Burrow or Tagovailoa), and who will be this year's sleeper (no clue yet). We'll likely have a separate thread for that, though.

What to do with pass interference replay, onside kick rules, and the XFL will be relatively minor things in this offseason too. I likely won't watch a lick of the XFL, but I'll probably get into the draft, as always.

Should be an interesting off-season.
  #2  
Old 02-07-2020, 09:28 AM
Superdude's Avatar
Superdude is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Fortress of Solidude
Posts: 11,113
One source I've read suggests that Phillip Rivers is going to land either in Tampa Bay, or Indianapolis. Not sure how excited I should be as a Colts fan about that. He's been a little rough lately, and we could plug more holes with the money we'd save keeping Jacoby Brissette for another season or two and searching for a quarterback via the draft.
__________________
It's chaos. Be kind.
  #3  
Old 02-07-2020, 10:06 AM
Atamasama's Avatar
Atamasama is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,474
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamlet View Post
Well, the Kansas City Chiefs are the Super Bowl Champs and damn, they look good. Congrats to Andy Reid, he's been so good for so long, it's nice to see him finally win the big game. I hope he's as good a person as he appears to be at first glance.
I’ve heard many testimonials from people who have worked with him or otherwise spent a lot of time with him and he does seem to be a good person. Very likeable and relatable. Kind of like Jeff Fisher, except he knows how to win games. I was really happy for him too. Also Mahomes, who I thought deserved a ring, but mostly Reid.
  #4  
Old 02-07-2020, 12:08 PM
DCnDC's Avatar
DCnDC is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: The Dueling Grounds
Posts: 13,765
Full 1st round draft order:

1. Bengals
2. Redskins
3. Lions
4. Giants
5. Dolphins
6. Chargers
7. Panthers
8. Cardinals
9. Jaguars
10. Browns
11. Jets
12. Raiders
13. Colts
14. Buccaneers
15. Broncos
16. Falcons
17. Cowboys
18. Dolphins (Via Steelers)
19. Raiders (Via Bears)
20. Jaguars (Via Rams)
21. Eagles
22. Bills
23. Patriots
24. Saints
25. Vikings
26. Dolphins (Via Texans)
27. Seahawks
28. Ravens
29. Titans
30. Packers
31. 49ers
32. Chiefs
  #5  
Old 02-07-2020, 03:48 PM
jaycat is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,747
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCnDC View Post
Full 1st round draft order:

1. Bengals
2. Redskins
If only the Skins could draft a new owner...
  #6  
Old 02-08-2020, 04:01 PM
dalej42 is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 16,478
Not NFL really, but the last thing I want, less than a week after the Super Bowl is more football. The new XFl may last a season, maybe.
__________________
Twitter:@Stardales IG:@Dalej42 He/Him/His

Last edited by dalej42; 02-08-2020 at 04:02 PM.
  #7  
Old 02-08-2020, 11:51 PM
racepug is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: the State of Columbia
Posts: 1,491
On Pro Football Weekly's penultimate show of the season they focused on soon-to-be-available free agents and on talent coming out in the draft. Hub Arkush said that he's never seen so much overall quarterback talent available in free agency as he sees this year but when I saw the list the only quarterback I saw that I'd be at least somewhat excited about if I were a G.M. or a head coach is Teddy Bridgewater. To me all the other veteran free agent QBs are either marginal talents (guys like Marcus Mariota) or are WELL past their prime (e.g. Philip Rivers and Tom Brady). I've read that the Rayyyy-daaaahhhhs are looking at bringing Tom Brady back to California but I really don't think that would be a good move on their part. As for Philip Rivers, last I heard rumors are that he might be going to Tampa Bay but from what I've read he's definitely done in San Diego. . .uh, I mean - Los Angeles.

Last edited by racepug; 02-08-2020 at 11:55 PM.
  #8  
Old 02-09-2020, 12:10 PM
kenobi 65's Avatar
kenobi 65 is offline
Corellian Nerfherder
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Brookfield, IL
Posts: 17,753
Quote:
Originally Posted by racepug View Post
I've read that the Rayyyy-daaaahhhhs are looking at bringing Tom Brady back to California but I really don't think that would be a good move on their part.
Especially since they will actually be playing in Nevada, not California.

Last edited by kenobi 65; 02-09-2020 at 12:10 PM.
  #9  
Old 02-10-2020, 08:10 PM
Omniscient is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Chicago, IL, USA
Posts: 17,735

Stream of consciousness for 2/10


Dark days in Chicago right now. The weather sucks as is to be expected, and supposed to have subzero temps this week. The winter sports are doing nothing to warm the cockles, the Bulls are a disaster and have maybe the worst front office in the league. The All Star game lands in Chicago just in time for the deep freeze but no Bulls will be in attendance. The Blackhawks are scuffling due to a prolonged stay in salary cap hell. College hoops are a bit of a sanctuary but it's been a rough week for the Illini. We don't even have an XFL team to distract us.

Speaking of the XFL, I watched a fair bit of the inaugural weekend and I have a couple thoughts. One, I like having football to watch after the Super Bowl without the WWE overtones. Two, that was some awful, awful play out there. Even a bad college team drops fewer balls, skips fewer passes and generally knows how not to do the worst possible thing on special teams. Also, that Marc Trestman halftime speech, wow. Worth keeping an eye on though.

The QB carousel. The Bears are highly involved in all these talking-head driven storylines and I have to say it's pissing me off. Not because of the criticism but because too many stupid, casual football fans are sucked into the vortex and I'm sick of the small talk. Here's the Cliff Notes version...

1. Drew Brees is resigning with the Saints. He's not coming to Chicago or anywhere else. This is all just bored jackasses with Twitter starting rumors. If he were available, I'm not sure I'd be excited about Brees starting 8 games outside on the Soldier Field turf.

1b. Teddy Bridgewater is not the answer. Let someone else shoot themselves in the foot by giving him "franchise QB" money for 4-5 years. He's NEVER BEEN GOOD. Before he got hurt in Minny he wasn't good. When he filled in for Drew Brees he wasn't special, he had exactly 1 good game as a passer against an awful Tampa team. Trubisky is seriously better than Bridgewater.

2. Tom Brady is resigning with the Patriots. This one is marginally less certain than Brees, but still, it's not happening. Plus Brady was in the bottom 1/3rd of starting QBs last year. Say what you want about his weapons, but he simply wasn't great. If you're the Raiders or Chargers looking to goose PSLs in a new stadium I get it, but from a pure football POV I don't think Brady is a guy that fixes your problems. Making things worse, he's asking for $30M+ anywhere outside New England.

3. Phillip Rivers is on the market, but he ain't coming to Chicago either. Dude has been threatening retirement for like 3 years now. He moved back to Florida. He's not loading up the charter bus and toting the family and his pastor to Halas Hall. If he plays, it's in Miami, and I wouldn't count on it. Fitzpatrick might be better at this point. Also, Cutty would be furious if we signed him.

4. Cam Newton isn't on the market yet but with the ouster of Rivera it's probably gonna happen. Now, this is the only one that in my mind makes any sense at all. But that's just barely. He isn't really a better passer than Mitch is at this point, in fact in 2018 they were basically the exact same QB on paper. Cam's accuracy is down, his arm strength is down and his body is breaking down. Maybe a year off fixes it, but probably not. Maybe a new system helps, but probably not. Also the Panthers likely will be looking for a trade partner and they'll probably find one before releasing him. I don't want to give away any assets for a massive question mark like Cam.

5. Marcus Mariota is available. No, just no.

6. Case Keenum is available. Seriously, fuck off.

7. Ryan Tannehill is available. He'll be franchised for certain, on the off chance he's available I might actually think about this one.

8. Jameis Winston is available. Also probably will be franchised, but if not....stay away, very, very far away.

9. Dak Prescott is not available but no way the Cowboys are dumb enough to let him walk. That said, I agree with Hamlet that I wouldn't want to be the guy to have to pay him $40M a year for the next half-decade.

10. Andy Dalton isn't a Free Agent but could be had in a trade. If this is our answer at QB we should probably just fold up stakes and call it a good run, maybe football just isn't our thing. He's old and he's not exactly good. Convincing the fan base that Andy Dalton will make you a Super Bowl contender is such a loser move that I can't stomach it.

I think the Dalton thing pretty well encapsulates my thoughts on the matter. Grabbing another team's cast off at QB is not a winning strategy. And for all the names in this free agent class, almost all of them are available because of badly declining play and/or because they have clearly proven that they aren't "the guy". The grass is not always greener.

It's not the solution I want but the only path forward for the Bears that doesn't see them digging their hole even deeper is to stay the course with Mitch, take your lumps, and draft a QB or two in draft and cross your fingers. Rinse, lather, repeat in 2021.

Last thought, I was pulling for the 49ers in the Super Bowl. I didn't really have a strong opinion either way but I was kinda pulling for Robbie Gould to get a ring and Jimmy G is a local kid. The anarchist in me also kind of liked the idea of Jimmy G winning just as Brady was packing it in. That said, I did find myself pretty happy to see Andy Reid win one. Seems like a mensch and probably not a guy who would deserve the title of "greatest coach to never win one". Will be interesting to see how many rings Mahomes ends up with.
  #10  
Old 02-10-2020, 11:37 PM
FoieGrasIsEvil's Avatar
FoieGrasIsEvil is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Land of Cheese Coneys
Posts: 18,228
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superdude View Post
One source I've read suggests that Phillip Rivers is going to land either in Tampa Bay, or Indianapolis. Not sure how excited I should be as a Colts fan about that. He's been a little rough lately, and we could plug more holes with the money we'd save keeping Jacoby Brissette for another season or two and searching for a quarterback via the draft.
Rivers is definitely an upgrade over Brissett. Perhaps keep Brissett and tank for Trevor Lawrence?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaycat View Post
If only the Skins could draft a new owner...
Bengals too!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dalej42 View Post
Not NFL really, but the last thing I want, less than a week after the Super Bowl is more football. The new XFl may last a season, maybe.
Man, not me. Love football too much. XFL proved to be more entertaining than I originally thought.

Quote:
Originally Posted by racepug View Post
As for Philip Rivers, last I heard rumors are that he might be going to Tampa Bay but from what I've read he's definitely done in San Diego. . .uh, I mean - Los Angeles.
Rivers would be an upgrade on either Tampa Bay or Indy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Omniscient View Post
Dark days in Chicago right now. The weather sucks as is to be expected, and supposed to have subzero temps this week. The winter sports are doing nothing to warm the cockles, the Bulls are a disaster and have maybe the worst front office in the league. The All Star game lands in Chicago just in time for the deep freeze but no Bulls will be in attendance. The Blackhawks are scuffling due to a prolonged stay in salary cap hell. College hoops are a bit of a sanctuary but it's been a rough week for the Illini. We don't even have an XFL team to distract us.

Speaking of the XFL, I watched a fair bit of the inaugural weekend and I have a couple thoughts. One, I like having football to watch after the Super Bowl without the WWE overtones. Two, that was some awful, awful play out there. Even a bad college team drops fewer balls, skips fewer passes and generally knows how not to do the worst possible thing on special teams. Also, that Marc Trestman halftime speech, wow. Worth keeping an eye on though.

The QB carousel. The Bears are highly involved in all these talking-head driven storylines and I have to say it's pissing me off. Not because of the criticism but because too many stupid, casual football fans are sucked into the vortex and I'm sick of the small talk. Here's the Cliff Notes version...

1. Drew Brees is resigning with the Saints. He's not coming to Chicago or anywhere else. This is all just bored jackasses with Twitter starting rumors. If he were available, I'm not sure I'd be excited about Brees starting 8 games outside on the Soldier Field turf.

1b. Teddy Bridgewater is not the answer. Let someone else shoot themselves in the foot by giving him "franchise QB" money for 4-5 years. He's NEVER BEEN GOOD. Before he got hurt in Minny he wasn't good. When he filled in for Drew Brees he wasn't special, he had exactly 1 good game as a passer against an awful Tampa team. Trubisky is seriously better than Bridgewater.

2. Tom Brady is resigning with the Patriots. This one is marginally less certain than Brees, but still, it's not happening. Plus Brady was in the bottom 1/3rd of starting QBs last year. Say what you want about his weapons, but he simply wasn't great. If you're the Raiders or Chargers looking to goose PSLs in a new stadium I get it, but from a pure football POV I don't think Brady is a guy that fixes your problems. Making things worse, he's asking for $30M+ anywhere outside New England.

3. Phillip Rivers is on the market, but he ain't coming to Chicago either. Dude has been threatening retirement for like 3 years now. He moved back to Florida. He's not loading up the charter bus and toting the family and his pastor to Halas Hall. If he plays, it's in Miami, and I wouldn't count on it. Fitzpatrick might be better at this point. Also, Cutty would be furious if we signed him.

4. Cam Newton isn't on the market yet but with the ouster of Rivera it's probably gonna happen. Now, this is the only one that in my mind makes any sense at all. But that's just barely. He isn't really a better passer than Mitch is at this point, in fact in 2018 they were basically the exact same QB on paper. Cam's accuracy is down, his arm strength is down and his body is breaking down. Maybe a year off fixes it, but probably not. Maybe a new system helps, but probably not. Also the Panthers likely will be looking for a trade partner and they'll probably find one before releasing him. I don't want to give away any assets for a massive question mark like Cam.

5. Marcus Mariota is available. No, just no.

6. Case Keenum is available. Seriously, fuck off.

7. Ryan Tannehill is available. He'll be franchised for certain, on the off chance he's available I might actually think about this one.

8. Jameis Winston is available. Also probably will be franchised, but if not....stay away, very, very far away.

9. Dak Prescott is not available but no way the Cowboys are dumb enough to let him walk. That said, I agree with Hamlet that I wouldn't want to be the guy to have to pay him $40M a year for the next half-decade.

10. Andy Dalton isn't a Free Agent but could be had in a trade. If this is our answer at QB we should probably just fold up stakes and call it a good run, maybe football just isn't our thing. He's old and he's not exactly good. Convincing the fan base that Andy Dalton will make you a Super Bowl contender is such a loser move that I can't stomach it.

I think the Dalton thing pretty well encapsulates my thoughts on the matter. Grabbing another team's cast off at QB is not a winning strategy. And for all the names in this free agent class, almost all of them are available because of badly declining play and/or because they have clearly proven that they aren't "the guy". The grass is not always greener.

It's not the solution I want but the only path forward for the Bears that doesn't see them digging their hole even deeper is to stay the course with Mitch, take your lumps, and draft a QB or two in draft and cross your fingers. Rinse, lather, repeat in 2021.

Last thought, I was pulling for the 49ers in the Super Bowl. I didn't really have a strong opinion either way but I was kinda pulling for Robbie Gould to get a ring and Jimmy G is a local kid. The anarchist in me also kind of liked the idea of Jimmy G winning just as Brady was packing it in. That said, I did find myself pretty happy to see Andy Reid win one. Seems like a mensch and probably not a guy who would deserve the title of "greatest coach to never win one". Will be interesting to see how many rings Mahomes ends up with.
Andy Dalton WILL be your QB next season. He's actually better than Trubisky and will fare better in Chi-town with a better cast around him.
__________________
Posting From Above The Browns

Last edited by FoieGrasIsEvil; 02-10-2020 at 11:37 PM.
  #11  
Old 02-11-2020, 09:32 AM
racepug is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: the State of Columbia
Posts: 1,491
3. Phillip Rivers is on the market, but he ain't coming to Chicago either. - https://sports.yahoo.com/where-will-...142833251.html
  #12  
Old 02-11-2020, 09:46 AM
racepug is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: the State of Columbia
Posts: 1,491

Changes to MNF?


A while back someone on this board mentioned that Sunday night, not Monday night, currently features the premier game of the week in the N.F.L. Apparently others agree: https://sports.yahoo.com/report-nfl-...215510781.html
  #13  
Old 02-11-2020, 09:58 AM
racepug is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: the State of Columbia
Posts: 1,491
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenobi 65 View Post
Especially since they will actually be playing in Nevada, not California.
{sigh} In my virtual Greatest Players of All Time league I've been referring to that franchise as the OakLAnd Raiders. Since they're moving to a place outside of California for the first time I plan on calling them the "Southwest Raiders" from now on.
  #14  
Old 02-11-2020, 10:01 AM
Atamasama's Avatar
Atamasama is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,474
Quote:
Originally Posted by racepug View Post
{sigh} In my virtual Greatest Players of All Time league I've been referring to that franchise as the OakLAnd Raiders. Since they're moving to a place outside of California for the first time I plan on calling them the "Southwest Raiders" from now on.
Calivegas Raiders
  #15  
Old 02-11-2020, 10:48 AM
racepug is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: the State of Columbia
Posts: 1,491
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atamasama View Post
Calivegas Raiders
You know, that just might work!
  #16  
Old 02-13-2020, 09:26 AM
DCnDC's Avatar
DCnDC is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: The Dueling Grounds
Posts: 13,765
A lot of people seem to think the Redskins will, or at least should, trade out of the #2 pick. While a good case can probably be made either way, I think it's going to be moot; the Redskins are NOT taking a QB, and everyone knows it. That being the case, anyone who wants to move up to take Tua or whoever can just deal with the Lions or Giants at #3 or #4 at a reduced price.

While I believe he's as good as advertised, I seriously doubt anyone is so enamored with Chase Young that they'll give 3 first rounders+ to Washington for him; Mike "I'd still make that Ricky Williams trade again" Ditka ain't running anything anymore.
  #17  
Old 02-13-2020, 01:05 PM
dalej42 is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 16,478
Quote:
Originally Posted by racepug View Post
A while back someone on this board mentioned that Sunday night, not Monday night, currently features the premier game of the week in the N.F.L. Apparently others agree: https://sports.yahoo.com/report-nfl-...215510781.html
It was me among many others. That’s always been my rebuttal to having a team and growing the game in England. What’s often the best matchup of the week starts at 1 am London time. That’s a pretty hard ceiling as far as fan growth.
__________________
Twitter:@Stardales IG:@Dalej42 He/Him/His
  #18  
Old 02-14-2020, 09:59 AM
dalej42 is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 16,478
Skins release Josh Norman

And in ancient NFL non-news Kaepernick is writing a book. Another chance to ring the register
__________________
Twitter:@Stardales IG:@Dalej42 He/Him/His
  #19  
Old 02-14-2020, 04:48 PM
Hamlet is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Where the Wild Things Are
Posts: 14,817
Just a little rant here, so feel free to ignore this post and move on:

I am sick and tired of how some people in the media cover and debate the NFL and the players in the NFL. Some examples to illustrate what I mean:

The headline says it all: Mock Drafts predicting Raiders may select offensive and defensive playmakers.

Just how useless and stupid does an analyst have to be to conclude that the Raiders may select an offensive and a defensive player? They do so, every fucking draft. Are they concerned the Raiders may draft a mascot or maybe a spoon from Alabama's team cafeteria? Jesus wept.

Which leads me to point the second: Mock Drafts are as useless and stupid as concluding the Raiders might draft an offensive and defensive player. So many people wasting so much time guessing what will occur, as if that has any relevance or insight whatsoever. You want to tell me your opinion of the game tape, great. You want to tell me you think the Packers are going to draft Laviska Shenault in the first round? Fuck you! That's utterly useless and based on nothing but deciding a team need and guessing who might be there at that need. It's so dumb.

I also hate commentators reliance on stupid ways of judging players and outright homerism rather than, I don't know, using analytics and watching/referencing game tape. This piece emphasizes the problem. I'll be honest, I am completely unfamiliar with the writer, so it may be totally tongue in cheek and it's actually mocking the stuff I hate. If so, he does an excellent job highlighting just how stupid it is. Here's an example:

"“It’s not that I hate him as a person. I have no idea what he’s like as a person,” said Aaron Schatz, the head of Football Outsiders and an NFL analyst for ESPN, when asked to defend his criticisms of Allen. “He certainly seems like a hard worker. There’s never been any stories that he’s not. I just don’t think he’s ever going to have the accuracy to be a quality starting NFL quarterback.”


Son of a biscuit.

The man just won 10 games and reached the playoffs in his first full season as a starter. He led game-winning drives in the fourth quarter of five of them.

Sure, he makes mistakes. But he’s only 23. He has plenty of time to improve, and he must improve. Even he admits that. But he was a high first-round draft pick for a reason."


To counter a statistical analysis of his accuracy, the writer points out that Josh Allen (and apparently just Josh Allen, not the Bills) won 10 games. It is so fucking stupid it makes my teeth ache. Wins are an atrocious way to judge QB play, right down there with whether the QB has a bitching mustache or how many "r's" they have in their name. And the cherry on top of the idiot cake was the "he was drafted in the first round" being a more accurate measure of worth compared to actual play in the NFL. They're the kind of people who spend $1,000 on a glass of wine and declare that it has to be good because they spent $1,000 on it. Oof.

Finally, this one, about the Packers (It may be paywalled, so I'll just use the headline): "Could Rashan Gary thrive at inside linebacker?" Dude is one year into his career, showed some abilities, (clearly not enough to earn a first round draft pick), and fans are asking about him moving positions. If Gary were a QB, fans would be wetting themselves to make excuses for his sub-optimal play (See: Josh Allen, Mitchell Trubisky, Marcus Mariota), but since he's not, they're all set to make a rash judgment and move his position. The reactionary bullshit is so effin annoying.

TLDR: Don't be a homer. Analytics = Good. Wins judging QB = bad. Reactionary bullshit is bullshit.

Now back to your regularly scheduled NFL Offseason thread.
  #20  
Old 02-15-2020, 12:53 PM
SuntanLotion is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: mentor ohio
Posts: 513
In local news, Miles Garrett has been reinstated to the Browns.
__________________
Divide and conquer. Power to the people
  #21  
Old 02-15-2020, 01:37 PM
dalej42 is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 16,478
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamlet View Post
Just a little rant here, so feel free to ignore this post and move on:

I am sick and tired of how some people in the media cover and debate the NFL and the players in the NFL. Some examples to illustrate what I mean:

The headline says it all: Mock Drafts predicting Raiders may select offensive and defensive playmakers.

Just how useless and stupid does an analyst have to be to conclude that the Raiders may select an offensive and a defensive player? They do so, every fucking draft. Are they concerned the Raiders may draft a mascot or maybe a spoon from Alabama's team cafeteria? Jesus wept.

Which leads me to point the second: Mock Drafts are as useless and stupid as concluding the Raiders might draft an offensive and defensive player. So many people wasting so much time guessing what will occur, as if that has any relevance or insight whatsoever. You want to tell me your opinion of the game tape, great. You want to tell me you think the Packers are going to draft Laviska Shenault in the first round? Fuck you! That's utterly useless and based on nothing but deciding a team need and guessing who might be there at that need. It's so dumb.

I also hate commentators reliance on stupid ways of judging players and outright homerism rather than, I don't know, using analytics and watching/referencing game tape. This piece emphasizes the problem. I'll be honest, I am completely unfamiliar with the writer, so it may be totally tongue in cheek and it's actually mocking the stuff I hate. If so, he does an excellent job highlighting just how stupid it is. Here's an example:

"“It’s not that I hate him as a person. I have no idea what he’s like as a person,” said Aaron Schatz, the head of Football Outsiders and an NFL analyst for ESPN, when asked to defend his criticisms of Allen. “He certainly seems like a hard worker. There’s never been any stories that he’s not. I just don’t think he’s ever going to have the accuracy to be a quality starting NFL quarterback.”


Son of a biscuit.

The man just won 10 games and reached the playoffs in his first full season as a starter. He led game-winning drives in the fourth quarter of five of them.

Sure, he makes mistakes. But he’s only 23. He has plenty of time to improve, and he must improve. Even he admits that. But he was a high first-round draft pick for a reason."


To counter a statistical analysis of his accuracy, the writer points out that Josh Allen (and apparently just Josh Allen, not the Bills) won 10 games. It is so fucking stupid it makes my teeth ache. Wins are an atrocious way to judge QB play, right down there with whether the QB has a bitching mustache or how many "r's" they have in their name. And the cherry on top of the idiot cake was the "he was drafted in the first round" being a more accurate measure of worth compared to actual play in the NFL. They're the kind of people who spend $1,000 on a glass of wine and declare that it has to be good because they spent $1,000 on it. Oof.

Finally, this one, about the Packers (It may be paywalled, so I'll just use the headline): "Could Rashan Gary thrive at inside linebacker?" Dude is one year into his career, showed some abilities, (clearly not enough to earn a first round draft pick), and fans are asking about him moving positions. If Gary were a QB, fans would be wetting themselves to make excuses for his sub-optimal play (See: Josh Allen, Mitchell Trubisky, Marcus Mariota), but since he's not, they're all set to make a rash judgment and move his position. The reactionary bullshit is so effin annoying.

TLDR: Don't be a homer. Analytics = Good. Wins judging QB = bad. Reactionary bullshit is bullshit.

Now back to your regularly scheduled NFL Offseason thread.
I cringe at the amount of mock draft crap. I miss the days where ESPN would show obscure sports rather than endless hours of mock draft stuff in the mornings and afternoons. Now, get off my lawn!
__________________
Twitter:@Stardales IG:@Dalej42 He/Him/His
  #22  
Old 02-15-2020, 02:11 PM
Atamasama's Avatar
Atamasama is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,474
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalej42 View Post
I cringe at the amount of mock draft crap. I miss the days where ESPN would show obscure sports rather than endless hours of mock draft stuff in the mornings and afternoons. Now, get off my lawn!
I want pro lawn darts and jai alai dammit.
  #23  
Old 02-18-2020, 05:48 PM
Ellis Dee is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: New England
Posts: 14,753
I'd like to see all the old QBs just retire. Kind of sick of all of them, but especially Brady. (Brees, Rivers, Big Ben, even Rodgers maybe after a farewell season.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by racepug View Post
A while back someone on this board mentioned that Sunday night, not Monday night, currently features the premier game of the week in the N.F.L. Apparently others agree: https://sports.yahoo.com/report-nfl-...215510781.html
I love the idea of flexing MNF, but yeah, that would suck for ticket holders to get flexed from 1pm Sunday to 8:20pm Monday night (11:20pm West coast!) with only two weeks notice. People have jobs.

From that article:
Quote:
ESPN is reportedly sweetening the pot for its ask by offering to take “Monday Night Football” off of cable and back on the ABC airwaves if it gets flex scheduling in return.
If I'm reading this right, the pot was sweetened by offering to air the ESPN broadcast on ABC instead of ESPN. (ESPN commentators calling the game, etc...) My guess is they'd simulcast it on both channels, but maybe not.

Either way, I also love the idea of putting MNF back on free tv.
  #24  
Old 02-18-2020, 06:51 PM
dalej42 is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 16,478
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atamasama View Post
I want pro lawn darts and jai alai dammit.
Aussie rules football was kinda cool. Does kickboxing still exist or has that been taken over by MMA?
__________________
Twitter:@Stardales IG:@Dalej42 He/Him/His
  #25  
Old 02-20-2020, 08:51 PM
dalej42 is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 16,478
Here’s the NFL’s opening bargaining agreement.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/20/nfl-...c-testing.html

17 game season-No! No one plays in the pre season anyway these days, especially that 4th game.

Marijuana testing, just get rid of it. Just Say No was from the 1980s.
__________________
Twitter:@Stardales IG:@Dalej42 He/Him/His
  #26  
Old 02-20-2020, 10:07 PM
Little Nemo is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Western New York
Posts: 86,291
Are NFL players barred from playing in the XFL?

Obviously I don't expect to see Patrick Mahomes throwing passes for the DC Defenders. But suppose I was a third tier player on an NFL roster, somebody who sits on the bench a lot and makes around $500,000 a year. I'm never going to be a star in the NFL.

But if I'm good enough to play in the NFL, even at this level, I'm a really outstanding football player. Certainly good enough to be a starter in the XFL and maybe even a franchise player. So a XFL team might be willing to pay me $100,000 a year to play with them during the NFL's off season. In addition to the extra money, I might be tempted by the possibility of being a big fish in a small pond rather than a small fish in a big pond.

However, I'm not going to give up my NFL career for the XFL. I want to play in both leagues. Would the NFL allow this? There have been players who played in the NFL and Major-League Baseball so the NFL must not have a "one team only" rule. But do they bar players from playing professional football with another league, even if the schedules don't overlap?

And if my dreams of a dual NFL/XFL career are shattered, how about a CFL/XFL combination?
  #27  
Old 02-21-2020, 12:31 AM
Ellis Dee is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: New England
Posts: 14,753
I imagine it's part of that same standard clause you hear about that says you won't go skydiving or ride a motorcycle or whatever. ie: Risky behavior can void your contract.
  #28  
Old 02-21-2020, 12:37 AM
racepug is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: the State of Columbia
Posts: 1,491
https://sports.yahoo.com/two-big-nam...111917668.html

I think the Raiders are fools to offer an aging QB that kind of money and I think that T.B. would be a fool to take that offer. As with others I hope that J.J. gives Dak everything he asks for down in Arlington - I think doing so would go over like a lead balloon.
  #29  
Old 02-21-2020, 09:46 AM
enalzi is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 8,662
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Nemo View Post
Are NFL players barred from playing in the XFL?

Obviously I don't expect to see Patrick Mahomes throwing passes for the DC Defenders. But suppose I was a third tier player on an NFL roster, somebody who sits on the bench a lot and makes around $500,000 a year. I'm never going to be a star in the NFL.

But if I'm good enough to play in the NFL, even at this level, I'm a really outstanding football player. Certainly good enough to be a starter in the XFL and maybe even a franchise player. So a XFL team might be willing to pay me $100,000 a year to play with them during the NFL's off season. In addition to the extra money, I might be tempted by the possibility of being a big fish in a small pond rather than a small fish in a big pond.

However, I'm not going to give up my NFL career for the XFL. I want to play in both leagues. Would the NFL allow this? There have been players who played in the NFL and Major-League Baseball so the NFL must not have a "one team only" rule. But do they bar players from playing professional football with another league, even if the schedules don't overlap?

And if my dreams of a dual NFL/XFL career are shattered, how about a CFL/XFL combination?
I remember when the AAFL folded, players had to get released from their contracts before an NFL team could sign them.
  #30  
Old 02-21-2020, 05:25 PM
Omniscient is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Chicago, IL, USA
Posts: 17,735
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalej42 View Post
Here’s the NFL’s opening bargaining agreement.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/20/nfl-...c-testing.html

17 game season-No! No one plays in the pre season anyway these days, especially that 4th game.

Marijuana testing, just get rid of it. Just Say No was from the 1980s.
I find it kind of strange that the NFL is so obsessed with the 17 and 18 week schedules. I don't have a super serious negative reaction to it like it seems a lot of people do, but it seems like they should start with something much more obtainable and just add back a second bye week.

Adding back a second bye week does a few good things.
1. It extends the TV schedule by 1 extra week which adds most of the revenue.
2. It gives players extra time to recover mid-season and hopefully reduces injuries and maybe increases the quality of play a tiny bit.
3. It acclimates the fans and the players to a longer season, thereby making the addition of another game week for each team less jarring if they do that for the next CBA.

Sure, you're not getting the benefit of an additional game's worth of ticket sales and local radio coverage this way, but that's not the biggest ticket item. I suspect that the bye week TV numbers are still pretty strong in markets with a bye team today.

Not sure what I'm missing.
  #31  
Old 02-21-2020, 05:51 PM
Omniscient is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Chicago, IL, USA
Posts: 17,735
[QUOTE=Hamlet;22139466]They do so, every fucking draft. Are they concerned the Raiders may draft a mascot or maybe a spoon from Alabama's team cafeteria? Jesus wept.[/quote[

That's a really specific example.

Quote:
Which leads me to point the second: Mock Drafts are as useless and stupid as concluding the Raiders might draft an offensive and defensive player. So many people wasting so much time guessing what will occur, as if that has any relevance or insight whatsoever. You want to tell me your opinion of the game tape, great. You want to tell me you think the Packers are going to draft Laviska Shenault in the first round? Fuck you! That's utterly useless and based on nothing but deciding a team need and guessing who might be there at that need. It's so dumb.
I agree with all the criticism of Mock Drafts. They are dumb and objectively they aren't really useful at predicting anything about the draft. BUT, I don't think that's the point and I'm pretty okay with it. Here's why.

Think of a Mock Draft like one of those thousand stupid Listicles that pop up on blogs every other hour. On paper they are dumb. You can't really objectively rank most of this stuff and the premise is inherently flawed....but, they can still be fun to read and share. Their goal isn't actually to rank things in any authoritative way, their goal is to spur conversation and to create a format that really easy for people to scan and consume with a minimum of effort.

Mock Drafts are exactly that. Most scouting services and analysts have a "Big Board" and draft profiles that break down each player, review the game tape, and often provide some pretty insightful analysis. They are great and I love them. But they have a few inherent problems.

1. They don't change very often. Maybe you learn something new about a guy and he moves up or down a spot or two, but that's not really that interesting to most people.
2. They don't really relate to any specific NFL team. If you're a casual fan (or even an avid fan that doesn't monitor CFB that closely) you probably aren't pro-actively scouring the internet for new insight into prospects. You're really just looking out for press releases and trending stories about your favorite team.
3. They don't have a narrative structure. You can't really tell a story about a single prospect except to talk about his past. You can sort of tell a story about how each positional player ranks against their peers, but that's basically a listicle. You can't really talk about the kid's potential impact without knowing where he'll play.
4. There's not much personality or name recognition there. Those casual fans probably only know the names of one or two prospects. That's it.

Now the Mock Draft framework fixes all those problems. For example.

1. You can shake up the snow globe every single day if you want and by swapping just a couple selections you end up with a totally different article. Lots of content to be created. Lots of opportunities to trigger water cooler discussions.
2. They inherently @mention every single NFL team. All the content aggregators and social media feeds and local beat reporters can pick up your article and push it to their readers/viewers. Fans affinity is to their team, this gives them something to get emotionally invested in.
3. They allow the writer to tell a story. You're not just talking about the measurables of a 21 year old kid. You're talking about the internal politics and business of 32 football teams. You're @mentioning dozens of famous veteran players who will be challenged or replaced. You're talking about how the target teams might change and how their 2020 season might play out. The mock draft pick is just the spark that starts the discussion.
4. You can talk about team owners, GMs, coaches, veteran players and agents. It's not just about the kid. It's about how that kid might change all the relationships inside the team, might displace some players, might make or break a coach or GM's career. It oozes with personal drama.

That's maybe not a great defense of the objective merits of a Mock Draft, but it's a compelling reason why they are really interesting to read for a lot of people and why they make sense to keep writing them. Mock Drafts are like pop music....sometimes that's just the right kind of distraction for the moment. I still enjoy them.
  #32  
Old 02-24-2020, 12:00 AM
Little Nemo is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Western New York
Posts: 86,291
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Dee View Post
I imagine it's part of that same standard clause you hear about that says you won't go skydiving or ride a motorcycle or whatever. ie: Risky behavior can void your contract.
NFL players are barred from risky behavior like playing professional football?
  #33  
Old 02-24-2020, 12:24 AM
dalej42 is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 16,478
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omniscient View Post
I find it kind of strange that the NFL is so obsessed with the 17 and 18 week schedules. I don't have a super serious negative reaction to it like it seems a lot of people do, but it seems like they should start with something much more obtainable and just add back a second bye week.

Adding back a second bye week does a few good things.
1. It extends the TV schedule by 1 extra week which adds most of the revenue.
2. It gives players extra time to recover mid-season and hopefully reduces injuries and maybe increases the quality of play a tiny bit.
3. It acclimates the fans and the players to a longer season, thereby making the addition of another game week for each team less jarring if they do that for the next CBA.

Sure, you're not getting the benefit of an additional game's worth of ticket sales and local radio coverage this way, but that's not the biggest ticket item. I suspect that the bye week TV numbers are still pretty strong in markets with a bye team today.

Not sure what I'm missing.
I think the NFL has the schedule perfect now. Season starts right after Labor day and wraps up right around the 1st of the year, then the playoffs start after the buzzkill of the end of the holiday season and back to work. But, hey, you’ve got NFL playoffs. An extra week means that early January is now the dreaded last game of the season where starters often sit out for the playoff bound teams and hopeless teams are rolling out a 4th string QB.
__________________
Twitter:@Stardales IG:@Dalej42 He/Him/His

Last edited by dalej42; 02-24-2020 at 12:25 AM.
  #34  
Old 02-24-2020, 12:27 AM
dalej42 is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 16,478
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Nemo View Post
NFL players are barred from risky behavior like playing professional football?
Although it’s a baseball analogy, Sparky Lyle wrote in The Bronx Zoo that his contract prohibited all risky behavior and he could basically play baseball, play tiddlywinks, and have sex with his wife and that’s it.
__________________
Twitter:@Stardales IG:@Dalej42 He/Him/His
  #35  
Old 02-29-2020, 09:38 AM
LoneRhino is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 220
There are a few reasons why the Raiders might sign Tom Brady.

1- Jon Gruden has a huge man-crush on him. Chris Simms talks about how when he played for Gruden in Tampa he showed a clip of Brady walking off the field, gushing about how he just looked like the perfect QB.

2- Imagine how much money they would make selling Brady jerseys. You would start seeing them everywhere almost instantly.

3- Most importantly, Derek Carr is a good, but not great QB. Signing Brady for 2 years would give you a good shot at the playoffs while transitioning to another QB.
  #36  
Old 02-29-2020, 04:05 PM
garygnu is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Port Orchard, WA
Posts: 11,674
Quote:
Originally Posted by bernadette1977 View Post
...
I've read that the Rayyyy-daaaahhhhs are looking at bringing Tom Brady back to California but I really don't think that would be a good move on their part.
No, it wouldn't be a good move to bring Brady to California because the Raiders play in Nevada.
__________________
°o°
  #37  
Old 03-06-2020, 02:40 PM
racepug is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: the State of Columbia
Posts: 1,491
Yahoo!'s look at where "key" free agents might (should) end up before next season: https://sports.yahoo.com/top-20-logi...180714752.html
  #38  
Old 03-06-2020, 06:30 PM
FlikTheBlue is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,166
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaycat View Post
If only the Skins could draft a new owner...
With the second pick of the 2020 NFL draft, the Washington Redskins draft Jerry Jones .
  #39  
Old 03-16-2020, 07:47 AM
Hamlet is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Where the Wild Things Are
Posts: 14,817
So the Titans jump into the "Let's overpay our QB" pool. They signed Ryan Tannehill to a 4 year, $118 million dollar contract with $62 million guaranteed and roughly $29.5 million a year average. That puts him somewhere between 5th and 10th highest paid QB's. Considering they got him and a 6th round pick for a 4th and 7th round draft pick, that's a heckuva payday.

Does anyone here believe Tannehill is an elite QB? Does anyone here think he's a special player who deserves to be in the top 10? I certainly don't.

But he has the thing that makes QB's in the NFL better than most others. Experience. The guy has started 98 NFL games, knows how to play, and can run the Titans play action pass system well. He doesn't need to have a cannon arm, or pinpoint accuracy, or necessarily be consistently great. He's got experience. And a very good offensive line, a very, very good running game, and had one very good season. The Titans, if their defense plays very well, can win the Super Bowl with him. But not because of him.

And any team in the NFL could have had him for cheap.

I think Tannehill, who had the best year of his career last year, will regress back to the kind of player he was for the prior 4 seasons and his 2019 will be considered an outlier year that helped him make bank (I'm looking at you Joe Flacco and Eli Manning). But kudos for him for getting the money.

Last edited by Hamlet; 03-16-2020 at 07:48 AM.
  #40  
Old 03-16-2020, 11:57 AM
Hamlet is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Where the Wild Things Are
Posts: 14,817
Also big news: By a vote of 1,019 to 959, the players' union voted to approve the CBA. That's a really close vote, especially considering that about 500 players didn't vote. The new CBA will go until 2030.

Some changes:

1) Possible 17 game season starting 2021 (with a increasing player percentage of revenues if adopted).
2) Increase in player percentage of revenues from 47% in 2020 to 48 in 2021 and possibly 18.5% (if 17 game seasons is used).
3) Increase in league minimum salaries.
4) Increase in performance based pay.
5) Roster increase from 53 to 55.
6) Fewer padded practices, dropping from 28 to 16 and from 3 hours to 2.5.
7) Reduced penalties for positive THC tests. Higher % count.

Seems like the players did OK, and the owners got another game. Hopefully win/win. I think the decrease in padded practice will result in some very ugly football early in the season, but such is life. At least the NFL has another 10 years of an agreement.
  #41  
Old 03-16-2020, 01:53 PM
wolfman is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,284
David Johnson and Stuff for Deandre Hopkins and less Stuff.

I am absolutely shocked you would ever let Hopkins go in this day and age. An unquestioned top tier receiver with a good partnership with your young stud quarterback, for a health challenged RB?. I wonder if there was more behind the scenes they aren't talking about.
  #42  
Old 03-16-2020, 02:33 PM
Hamlet is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Where the Wild Things Are
Posts: 14,817
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfman View Post
David Johnson and Stuff for Deandre Hopkins and less Stuff.

I am absolutely shocked you would ever let Hopkins go in this day and age. An unquestioned top tier receiver with a good partnership with your young stud quarterback, for a health challenged RB?. I wonder if there was more behind the scenes they aren't talking about.
I do not understand in the least what the Texans are thinking. Unless Hopkins drove a bus full of nuns off a cliff or slept with Watson's Mom, it makes no sense. Bill OBrien is not long for the NFL.
  #43  
Old 03-16-2020, 06:10 PM
DCnDC's Avatar
DCnDC is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: The Dueling Grounds
Posts: 13,765
I am equally baffled. I think someone better check on whoever's running things in Houston, they may be having a stroke.

"Let's trade away the best player this franchise has ever had for a 28-year-old, injury-prone running back who really only had one good year."
  #44  
Old 03-16-2020, 06:54 PM
Atamasama's Avatar
Atamasama is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,474
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamlet View Post
I do not understand in the least what the Texans are thinking. Unless Hopkins drove a bus full of nuns off a cliff or slept with Watson's Mom, it makes no sense. Bill OBrien is not long for the NFL.
Remember this is the same guy that traded Jadeveon Clowney to the Seahawks last year for two backup defensive players who Seattle were probably going to cut, and a 3rd round pick, and also agreed to cover half of Clowney’s salary. He doesn’t make good decisions. Houston needs a GM.
  #45  
Old 03-16-2020, 07:11 PM
kenobi 65's Avatar
kenobi 65 is offline
Corellian Nerfherder
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Brookfield, IL
Posts: 17,753
The Bears, feeling like they need to upgrade tight end, signed Jimmy Graham (who was recently released by the Packers) to a 2-year contract.

Did they actually *look* at Graham's game film from last year? He looked old and slow, regularly vanished for long stretches, and was clearly a shadow of his onetime great self. Another year on the odometer isn't going to make him any better.

Link to story on the deal: https://wgntv.com/sports/bears-to-si...r-deal-report/

Last edited by kenobi 65; 03-16-2020 at 07:11 PM.
  #46  
Old 03-16-2020, 07:29 PM
Atamasama's Avatar
Atamasama is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,474
The Bears are also interested in finally moving on from hapless Mitch, looking to replace him either with Bridgewater or Foles.

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/...11466wf1g94u9i
I think Teddy would be a good choice.
  #47  
Old 03-16-2020, 07:47 PM
Chisquirrel is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 3,012
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenobi 65 View Post
The Bears, feeling like they need to upgrade tight end, signed Jimmy Graham (who was recently released by the Packers) to a 2-year contract.

Did they actually *look* at Graham's game film from last year? He looked old and slow, regularly vanished for long stretches, and was clearly a shadow of his onetime great self. Another year on the odometer isn't going to make him any better.

Link to story on the deal: https://wgntv.com/sports/bears-to-si...r-deal-report/
“Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.”

- Napoleon Bonaparte
  #48  
Old 03-17-2020, 06:32 AM
DCnDC's Avatar
DCnDC is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: The Dueling Grounds
Posts: 13,765
Graham had some good years, but Tony Gonzalez he ain't.
  #49  
Old 03-17-2020, 12:52 PM
Southern Yankee is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: The Haw
Posts: 4,885
So long, Cam. (Panthers say "Scram!")

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/...newton-unhappy
  #50  
Old 03-17-2020, 12:53 PM
Southern Yankee is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: The Haw
Posts: 4,885
Double post

Last edited by Southern Yankee; 03-17-2020 at 12:54 PM. Reason: Server wackiness
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:40 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@straightdope.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Copyright © 2019 STM Reader, LLC.

 
Copyright © 2017