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  #101  
Old 03-19-2020, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by FastDan1 View Post
Yes. Eric, with the dumbest move in Survivor history.

Sandra just moved way up the list IMO.
I wasn't referring to Sandra giving away her Immunity to get immediately voted out, I meant that Denise played immunity for Jeremy as her sole ally, after he had voted for her. Must have been awkward around the fire later.

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Originally Posted by DrDeth View Post
It upset me that they used real rice in the challenge, a giant waste of food.
Maybe the survivors filled their pockets with rice while they were opening the bag.

Remember the Piranha Challenge where you had to rip pieces of meat off a roast with your teeth, then carry them to a scale in your mouth. Whichever team had the most meat after a certain time won. In addition to immunity, you won all the meat you had transported. Mm, meat that's been in someone else's mouth.
  #102  
Old 03-19-2020, 02:45 PM
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I think Parvati may have had a slim shot if, during the discussion with Wendell to say a name, she took a long look at Yul, and then a long look at Nick, and told them that if they were nervous it was only because the guy who admitted that he was willing to stab someone in the face was contemplating stabbing someone in the face. Then say that rather than spending two fire tokens for Wendell's vote, she would name Wendell as the target and offer Yul and Nick a fire token each, but only if they BOTH voted for Wendell. Probably wouldn't have worked, but she didn't have much to work with. And I wasn't paying attention, did she actually have two tokens?
  #103  
Old 03-19-2020, 03:43 PM
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I'm not sure "Denise played immunity for Jeremy as her sole ally". I think Denise knew Jeremy would vote for her. She only did it to prevent the tie in case Sandra voted for Jeremy.
  #104  
Old 03-19-2020, 05:02 PM
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I'm not sure "Denise played immunity for Jeremy as her sole ally". I think Denise knew Jeremy would vote for her. She only did it to prevent the tie in case Sandra voted for Jeremy.
Ah, so she wasn't trying to keep Jeremy alive, she was just throwing another shovelful of dirt into Sandra's grave. Makes sense.
  #105  
Old 03-19-2020, 05:12 PM
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I'm not sure "Denise played immunity for Jeremy as her sole ally". I think Denise knew Jeremy would vote for her. She only did it to prevent the tie in case Sandra voted for Jeremy.
Yup. She wanted to make sure that her vote was the decisive vote. The only way to do that was to play an idol for both herself and Jeremy. She knew that they were all either voting for her or Jeremy (with Jeremy voting for her either way).

I'm still shocked that Sandra didn't vote for Jeremy. I can't see any reason for her not to do that other than hubris. She could always tell him that she did it in case Denise had an idol without revealing that the idol came from her.
  #106  
Old 03-19-2020, 06:06 PM
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By the way, when you sell an idol and agree to be paid half up front and half after TC, what the other side hears is "idol for sale at half price". Dumb mistake to make, and I knew right then who was likely to be voted off.

LOL, yeah. And more fundamentally: what on earth was she thinking to purposely set up a dynamic where Denise had the sole power to choose who went home? (Or not "home", but the Edge.)


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I was a bit worried for my favorite Yul during his TC when Wendell kept asking Parvati for a name. Why didn't she just say Yul? She has to know she is likely the vote, so why be so scared to say a name. If you don't trust Wendell that's fine, but at least give it a shot. Maybe Wendell blinks.

I'm really curious as to why Wendell was saying all that stuff. Unless it was completely cooked up with his alliance as a total act, it makes him look weaselly and untrustworthy.
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  #107  
Old 03-19-2020, 06:17 PM
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Sandra play was really bizzarre... I still dont understand why people give idols to other players willingly in this game??

She had an idol and it had to be used this time. Because of the numbers a new merge is likely coming so I rather use the idol and stay in the game to fight another day.

Instead she gives it to an adversary.... it was truly an idiotic move.
  #108  
Old 03-20-2020, 03:01 PM
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It upset me that they used real rice in the challenge, a giant waste of food.
Better than using fake rice that would pollute the island? <shrug>

I really enjoyed the wheeling and dealing with the fire tokens. They finally seem to be mattering. Sandra did get Denise to agree not to vote her off. The fact that Denise reneged doesn't make it a dumb move, IMHO. Sandra just misjudged what Denise would do, that's part of Survivor.
  #109  
Old 03-20-2020, 03:33 PM
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Giving away her idol wasn't that bad of a move. Having no contingency in place in case Denise voted against her was a TERRIBLE move.
  #110  
Old 03-20-2020, 05:53 PM
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Sandra couldn't really vote for Jeremy as a backup. The tribe was split 3-2. It ended up being a 4-1 vote for Denise because Jeremy threw the vote on her to save himself, but the other three couldn't be sure on that. If Sandra votes for Jeremy then the vote would be 2-2-1, Denise's 2 would be idol'ed, and whoever Denise/Jeremy vote for goes home anyways.
  #111  
Old 03-20-2020, 06:48 PM
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Yeah, agreed. So the only real reason for Denise to play an idol on Jeremy is if Sandra's intel was really just a decoy, a faint. Sandra's real error was in telling Denise everyone was voting for her and giving her an idol, thus letting her control who goes home.
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  #112  
Old 03-20-2020, 06:50 PM
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Better than using fake rice that would pollute the island? <shrug>
Couldn't they use sand?
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  #113  
Old 03-20-2020, 06:50 PM
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Better than using fake rice that would pollute the island? <shrug>
....
There's this thing called "sand".
  #114  
Old 03-22-2020, 12:35 PM
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My guess is that sand wouldn't have worked as well for the challenge (either being more difficult to squeeze through the hole when wet, or stab with the knife to find the ball). They've used sandbags plenty before.
  #115  
Old 03-22-2020, 12:55 PM
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Good point; some of the bags were even (briefly) floating unattended at points. I don't think sand would have worked.
  #116  
Old 03-23-2020, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by magnusblitz View Post
Sandra couldn't really vote for Jeremy as a backup. The tribe was split 3-2. It ended up being a 4-1 vote for Denise because Jeremy threw the vote on her to save himself, but the other three couldn't be sure on that. If Sandra votes for Jeremy then the vote would be 2-2-1, Denise's 2 would be idol'ed, and whoever Denise/Jeremy vote for goes home anyways.
Yeah, that's probably true.

But I think on the range of likely outcomes Jeremy voting to save himself is a lot more bankable than Denise going along with the "vote whoever you like, but not me" craziness. But of course since Sandra came up with the plan she probably thought it was as sure thing. Either way, it was an inexplicable and completely unnecessary plan that rightly blew up in her face.

It does seem like some players (the more famous ones, basically) have decided that some winners are "better" than others, and are underestimating folks like Ben, Sophie, Denise, and Michele (and maybe, somehow, Yul?).
  #117  
Old 03-24-2020, 05:52 PM
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Yeah, it's annoying--and weird that Sandra would say it out loud in front of everyone. Very arrogant, which is her style. It doesn't strike me as the best way to play the game, which makes it pretty hard to understand how she won the first two times she played (if I were her, BTW, I would have retired undefeated after that second time, and only come back for gimmicks like the deal with Rob last season).


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So the only real reason for Denise to play an idol on Jeremy is if Sandra's intel was really just a decoy, a faint.

I know how to spell "feint", but my iPhone does not and I didn't catch it.
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  #118  
Old 03-24-2020, 07:11 PM
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(if I were her, BTW, I would have retired undefeated after that second time, and only come back for gimmicks like the deal with Rob last season).
But she already lost on her third try, so she is no longer undefeated anyway. I suspect the reason she agreed to participate in this season had more to do with the prospect of her not being the only player with multiple wins.

Barring the highly unlikely event that Sandra gets back in the game and wins, there will be a second two-time winner, and that person will have won $3 million to her $2 million. It will surely be a blow to her ego.
  #119  
Old 03-24-2020, 07:51 PM
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Right, I'm saying she shouldn't have come back that third time. I know this is her fourth time playing (and fifth season).
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  #120  
Old 03-25-2020, 01:15 PM
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Former Survivor (and Amazing Racer) Eliza Orlins is running for Manhattan District Attorney.

Could Jack McCoy be worried? Nah.

https://www.instagram.com/p/B9XL7uTALt0/
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  #121  
Old 03-25-2020, 02:41 PM
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Just for my amusement, I drew up a list of players in the order of the season they won.

Ethan [3]...........Out 4th
Sandra [7 & 20]...Out 8th
Amber [8]..........Out 2nd
Danni [11]..........Out 3rd
Yul [13]
Parvati [16]........Out 7th
Rob [22]............Out 6th
Sophie [23]
Kim [24]
Denise [25]
Tyson [27]...........Out 5th
Tony [28]
Natalie [28].........Out 1st
Jeremy [31]
Michele [32]
Adam [33]
Sarah [34]
Ben [35]
Wendell [36]
Nick [37]


Just looking at that, Yul should be kind of nervous.
  #122  
Old 03-25-2020, 02:53 PM
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Is anyone else wondering how they're going to handle the finale if everything is still locked down? Obviously no audience, but they may not even be able to get the entire cast together.
  #123  
Old 03-25-2020, 04:53 PM
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FTR, Natalie Anderson won Season 29 not 28.

Saw a preview for tonight's Immunity Challenge, a repeat from David vs Goliath on youtube.

Transfer water on a very big and heavy (but shallow) saucer over an obstacle course and the do a puzzle. I wonder if they were able to throw their shirt in the saucer which should reduce some of the water sloshing.

I hated that challenge is DvG. The team that lost was Natalie Cole, Angelina, Nick, and Mike White. It did give us a memorable Vote-out

"Natalie, Can I have your jacket?"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44CR4Evf7LU
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  #124  
Old 03-25-2020, 04:55 PM
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Is anyone else wondering how they're going to handle the finale if everything is still locked down? Obviously no audience, but they may not even be able to get the entire cast together.
ZOOM!

We would get at least one benefit of no audience. No Probst interviews with some snotty random kid.
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  #125  
Old 03-25-2020, 06:43 PM
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That's true! IIRC the most recent finale was mercifully free of those kinds of time-wasters.


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Just for my amusement, I drew up a list of players in the order of the season they won.

Ethan [3]...........Out 4th
Sandra [7 & 20]...Out 8th
Amber [8]..........Out 2nd
Danni [11]..........Out 3rd
Yul [13]
Parvati [16]........Out 7th
Rob [22]............Out 6th
Sophie [23]
Kim [24]
Denise [25]
Tyson [27]...........Out 5th
Tony [28]
Natalie [28].........Out 1st
Jeremy [31]
Michele [32]
Adam [33]
Sarah [34]
Ben [35]
Wendell [36]
Nick [37]


Just looking at that, Yul should be kind of nervous.

Really interesting.

I think of Rob as very old school and Sophie as totally new school, but their wins were only one season apart! Of course, Rob was quite the veteran by that point, while Sophie was a brand new player. (I do wonder if there should be a "middle school" concept, as Sophie was--surprisingly to me--actually barely after the midpoint of the 40 seasons at this point.)

It's also pretty interesting that in the sixteen seasons from 22-37, only John Cochran and Mike Holloway are not represented this year. Cochran is a clear favorite who already played more than once and came back in another season in a "coach" role, so I assume in his case he was invited but had some kind of conflict. That leaves Mike Holloway as the only winner from that whole stretch who was probably just not invited, for being too boring (ouch). I myself don't really remember him much at all, even though I watched that whole season (and every episode of every other season except China).
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  #126  
Old 03-25-2020, 08:01 PM
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Yul should be kind of nervous.

Good call!
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  #127  
Old 03-25-2020, 08:39 PM
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FTR, Natalie Anderson won Season 29 not 28.
Yes. Sorry! Typo.

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Good call!
Thanks! I think its pretty much the only call I've made about Survivor that was correct.

Impressive scoring three of the fire tokens by Rob. (Darn him.)

BTW, has anyone been keeping track of the fire tokens? I looked on Wikipedia, but that might be about the only stat they aren't showing.

I'm wondering if the number of tokens you have will have a linear sort of effect on whatever challenge they use to pick who comes back in the game. I mean, instead of a binary option of 'you can buy an advantage for three tokens', it could be something like 'buy as much of an advantage as you want and can afford.' Like, oh, it's one of those challenges like balance something as long as you can, but you get to start two minutes after the rest of the field for each fire token you fork over.

Which gives you another decision to make: should you go for broke? Or do you decide to hold some back because you think you could win with just a two or four minute edge, and then you'd still have a token or two to use after you rejoin the game?
  #128  
Old 03-25-2020, 09:18 PM
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Its surprising that the only survivors that been able to EARN more tokens are the one that are on EoE. The players still in the game have only been able to Spend Tokens or get "bequeathed" tokens.

IIRC, this is the fire tokens balances

EoE
Natalie 4 (Sold advantages to Sandra, Jeremy, Sarah + 1 from Wood Challenge)
Rob 3 (three tonight)
Amber 1 (wood challenge)
Ethan 1 (Wood challenge)
Danni 1 (Wood Challenge)
Tyson 1 (tonight)
Parvati 0
Yul 0
Sandra 0 (out of game)
11 Subtotal

Michelle 4 (Original + 3 bequeathed from Parvati)
Nick 2 (original + 1 bequeathed from Tyson
Wendell (1 original)
7 subtotal

Sophie 2 (original + 1 bequeathed from Yul tonight)
Adam (1 original)
Ben (1 Original)
Sarah (1, bequeathed from Yul tonight, she spent the other on the steal a vote)
5 subtotal

Jeremy (1 original, got one from Natalie but returned it for the Safe w/o Power advantage)
Tony (1 original)
Kim (1 Original)
Denise (1 original The one that she got bequeathed by Danni was given to Sandra)
4 subtotal

27 tokens Grand Total


There were 20 original tokens plus 8 total tokens added from the Wood Challenge a few weeks ago and the Scavenger hunt tonight. Tyson spent one token on Peanut Butter.

27 tokens

Quote:
I think Sandra raises the flag on EoE. I think her chances of winning an EoE challenge is near zero, and she must realize that as well.
I wonder who said that? :-)
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  #129  
Old 03-25-2020, 09:24 PM
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Missed the edit window

Michelle has 3 tokens and Wendell has 2 tokens

Michelle gave one to Wendell in tonights episode.
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  #130  
Old 03-25-2020, 09:32 PM
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So glad Sandra left the show. Good riddance at this point.
  #131  
Old 03-25-2020, 10:13 PM
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I wonder who said that? :-)

Kudos!


And great list, thanks!

Have they said whether tokens can be stolen? They keep calling them money for this new society, so why not? Money gets stolen in our society all the time.
  #132  
Old 03-25-2020, 11:49 PM
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It's not surprising Sandra would bail out on Edge, but it looked like she wasn't even willing to sit down and hang out for a little while first! I almost wonder if she might have stayed a little longer had Rob not shamed her in front of everyone for her boneheaded move (he was absolutely right that it was dumb, but he could have held back a little).

While it's certainly true that she was not going to have any realistic chance to win the challenge to get back in the game, part of the deal with appearing on the show is to provide entertainment for viewers whether you win or not. And part of the entertainment is EoE. So considering how scornful Probst has been toward players like Naonka and Purple Kelly who quit in the past, I wonder how he feels about her leaving, especially leaving without staying another round or two first.
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  #133  
Old 03-26-2020, 12:57 AM
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Yul

I don't think Probst would be scornful towards Sandra quitting. Quitting is clearly something they envisions as part of EoE. The situation is very different from quitters like Naonka and Kelly who were still alive in the game, versus being all but dead (and yes, Sandra was not going to win the challenge to return) and in an even more dire situation food/rest/shelter wise.

Last edited by magnusblitz; 03-26-2020 at 12:59 AM.
  #134  
Old 03-26-2020, 01:22 AM
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I think Probst et al really want people to at least stay a couple days there first, give it "the old college try". Then if they quit, citing how intolerably difficult it is there, it juices up the drama in terms of our imagining how tough it is to endure for the others remaining behind. But to walk straight from TC to the EoE folks sitting around the fire, and then to go raise the flag without even spending the night (or, it looked like, more than about five minutes)? I don't think that's going to sit super well with Probst, even if he might not say so because of Sandra's legendary status.
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  #135  
Old 03-26-2020, 01:29 AM
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Originally Posted by StarvingButStrong View Post
Just for my amusement, I drew up a list of players in the order of the season they won.

Ethan [3]...........Out 4th
Sandra [7 & 20]...Out 8th
Amber [8]..........Out 2nd
Danni [11]..........Out 3rd
Yul [13]
Parvati [16]........Out 7th
Rob [22]............Out 6th
Sophie [23]
Kim [24]
Denise [25]
Tyson [27]...........Out 5th
Tony [28]
Natalie [28].........Out 1st
Jeremy [31]
Michele [32]
Adam [33]
Sarah [34]
Ben [35]
Wendell [36]
Nick [37]


Just looking at that, Yul should be kind of nervous.
Whoa! Nostradamus in the house!

Last edited by JpnDude; 03-26-2020 at 01:29 AM. Reason: Bolding by ME
  #136  
Old 03-26-2020, 08:33 AM
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I don't think that's going to sit super well with Probst, even if he might not say so because of Sandra's legendary status.
I REALLY didn't care for Sandra's proclamation that she was still the Queen, that she would always be the Queen.

Now I want a woman to win this season just so there's another woman with two wins. A New Queen, as it were. Ha!
  #137  
Old 03-26-2020, 09:56 AM
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Just looking at that, Yul should be kind of nervous.
What else can you tell us, future-man?
  #138  
Old 03-26-2020, 10:29 AM
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I think Probst et al really want people to at least stay a couple days there first, give it "the old college try". Then if they quit, citing how intolerably difficult it is there, it juices up the drama in terms of our imagining how tough it is to endure for the others remaining behind. But to walk straight from TC to the EoE folks sitting around the fire, and then to go raise the flag without even spending the night (or, it looked like, more than about five minutes)? I don't think that's going to sit super well with Probst, even if he might not say so because of Sandra's legendary status.
FWIW, Probst told Dalton Ross that he wasn't surprised, and that it doesn't change her legacy at all.

And Sandra told Ross that she knew there was no way she'd win a challenge to get back in, and she was sick of being in Fiji. Oddly, she complained that she'd be on EoE for another 23 days. What day did they do the return challenge on the original EoE? And weren't the losers sent to the resort/Ponderosa afterwards, since they were now completely out of the game?
  #139  
Old 03-26-2020, 11:00 AM
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In the original EoE season, there were two challenges to get back into season.

Once at the merge (approximately Day 19) where Rick Devens won the challenge

The EoE people had the opportunity to stay on the EoE. Two players quit (Big Wendy and Keith) right after the challenge. The rest stayed (Chris Wunderwood, Aubrey, David, Reem etc).

Another 23 days. Not quite that long on EoE, but potentially another 3 weeks IF SHE WON one of the challenges (FAT CHANCE) to get back in and she got to FTC



The 2nd EoE challenge to get back into the game happened at Final 5, approximately Day 36. Chris Underwood won.
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  #140  
Old 03-26-2020, 11:15 AM
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I don't care much for the idea of a legacy when you sit out every challenge, fail to use your only strength (pitting naive players against one another through misinformation), and then bail once you get played like a rookie (handing over your immunity idol)... Sandra is all-talk, literally and in action... she went out with a whimper and a scolding.
  #141  
Old 03-26-2020, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by notfrommensa View Post
In the original EoE season, there were two challenges to get back into season.

Once at the merge (approximately Day 19) where Rick Devens won the challenge

The EoE people had the opportunity to stay on the EoE. Two players quit (Big Wendy and Keith) right after the challenge. The rest stayed (Chris Wunderwood, Aubrey, David, Reem etc).

Another 23 days. Not quite that long on EoE, but potentially another 3 weeks IF SHE WON one of the challenges (FAT CHANCE) to get back in and she got to FTC



The 2nd EoE challenge to get back into the game happened at Final 5, approximately Day 36. Chris Underwood won.
Ah thanks, I totally forgot that 2 people had returned from EoE. Weren't we theorizing at the time that after Rick Devens had come back, they were just going to let everyone else stay but never let them back into the game?
  #142  
Old 03-26-2020, 12:34 PM
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Ah thanks, I totally forgot that 2 people had returned from EoE. Weren't we theorizing at the time that after Rick Devens had come back, they were just going to let everyone else stay but never let them back into the game?
I'm not sure, but I will say that it is bad news for the show that the best and most interesting players are all over on Exile. I think at most, two of them will return...

I'm hoping for Ethan and Yul, but will accept almost anyone over there making a comeback.
  #143  
Old 03-26-2020, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Mahaloth View Post
I'm not sure, but I will say that it is bad news for the show that the best and most interesting players are all over on Exile. I think at most, two of them will return...
Best I'll give you, but most interesting? I think you're forgetting one Tony Vlachos, inventor of the Spy Shack, Spy Shack 2, Spy Bunker, and most recently the Spy Pile of Palm Fronds.
  #144  
Old 03-26-2020, 01:01 PM
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I find it interesting (but maybe not surprising) that looking at the list of contestants by order of seasons they won, I'm now down to hoping one of the Sophie-Kim-Denise trio win, and they're the "oldest" ones left. I like Jeremy too, but everyone after him (except maybe Sarah) I don't care for. Michelle and Nick are boring, Wendell and Ben are jerks, and Adam's whiny. Wonder why that is... just shifting demographics or change in editing.
  #145  
Old 03-26-2020, 06:34 PM
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I adore Michele, so I don't have that problem and I am beyond thrilled that she escaped having her torch snuffed this week.


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Originally Posted by muldoonthief View Post

Yes (and as I say, with her legendary status and legions of fans, Jeff is playing with fire if he says anything negative about her). But he also said:


"So after 16 years, if Sandra is done, I’m good with that."


When Rob was saying he was done, Jeff continued to plead with him to play again. Take that for what you will.
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  #146  
Old 03-26-2020, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by SlackerInc View Post
....

Yes (and as I say, with her legendary status and legions of fans, Jeff is playing with fire if he says anything negative about her). But he also said:


"So after 16 years, if Sandra is done, Iím good with that."


When Rob was saying he was done, Jeff continued to plead with him to play again. Take that for what you will.
Legions of fans? Everyone I know despises her.

Lazy and gets her way by lying.
  #147  
Old 03-26-2020, 09:55 PM
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Legions of fans? Everyone I know despises her.

Lazy and gets her way by lying.
Well isnt that what the game is all about?
  #148  
Old 03-26-2020, 09:55 PM
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I don’t like her either, but look on Twitter and podcasts, and you will see huge numbers of people lamenting the downfall of “the queen”. Some of the prominent figures in Survivor media warned people not to attack her in their mentions (replies) at the risk of being blocked.
  #149  
Old 03-27-2020, 01:50 PM
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Man, Yul was in a tough spot. It's one of the nasty side effects of a three-way split going into the marge - super small tribes at these last final TCs. Yul basically had no shot once it became clear that Michelle was never going to vote against Wendell (which I'm not sure I get, but clearly their past history is still a factor). No way is Nick going to force a tie in that situation, since he doesn't have any real affection for Yul either.

Yul also pointed out the factor that has been overriding in this season (a bit to it's detriment I think) - existing relationships both inside and outside the game have mattered as much if not more than what has happened during the game. In a "normal" season I think the combination of Wendell's sketchy TC talk last episode and his trash-talking failure this episode (after already doing the same thing earlier during a challenge) would have been enough to get him snuffed. But because he happened to land with Michelle on a 4-person tribe he's safe through no real work of his own. You could even say he's been pretty lousy at keeping Michelle on his side, which based on what we've seen and heard from her should be a lay-up.
  #150  
Old 03-27-2020, 01:56 PM
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Throughout this season, Probst has been driving home the idea of how much the game has changed, evolved, sped up, etc.
At first I thought he was definitely overstating this factor. But it's become clear that the new-school players have been completely dominating the old-school players. For all the talk of the "legendary" status of Rob, Sandra, Parvati, Amber, et al, they're the ones sitting at EoE (or gone home), while the ones who helped transition the game into the more complex, fast-paced entity it has become play on.
Like them or not, the old folks just haven't been able to keep up.
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