Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-26-2020, 07:27 PM
ThelmaLou's Avatar
ThelmaLou is online now
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Neither here nor there
Posts: 18,363

What should be the main talking points of the 2020 Dem Pres candidate (presumably Biden)?


Just going all out on "trump is an idiot, a danger to the country, he has screwed everything up," etc., etc. isn't going to be enough. Being the anti-trump is a start, but it's not going to be enough. Name-calling his disgusting, pathetic, dangerous, demented predecessor, no matter now accurate, isn't going to be enough.

The Democratic candidate has to fairly REEK of decisive Leadership, with a capital "L." He (I'm going to say "he," because it has to be Biden, and Bernie has to get the fuck out of the way) has to inspire confidence, trust. He has to be more than Ford to trump's Nixon, because in Ford's day, the whole Executive Branch wasn't in shambles-- just the presidency. Ford didn't have to be a great leader, just a normal human being. There was still a Cabinet, agencies, a Justice Department. The 2020 Democratic candidate will have to outline how he is going to RESTORE the highest levels of government to functionality. To return the country to normalcy for openers, but also to show how the Democrats, once they have restored normalcy, can believably deliver a good future.

FFS, the Democratic party has to get its shit together and present a credible, confidence-inspiring course of action that can, at least from time to time, shove trump out of the headlines that he is so good at grabbing.

What should Biden and the party outline as the components of that restorative course of action?











The country is so divided... I don't have much hope that this is even possible. Biden cannot shout down trump. And anyway, if the Dems don't hang on to the House and take the Senate, this whole discussion is moot. Sorry for being Debbie Downer-- had to get that off my chest. I fear that if trump is still alive in November, he will win reelection, just because no one else will be able to get a word in edgewise.

Last edited by ThelmaLou; 03-26-2020 at 07:29 PM.
  #2  
Old 03-26-2020, 09:32 PM
ThelmaLou's Avatar
ThelmaLou is online now
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Neither here nor there
Posts: 18,363
Hmmm...getting an idea of the scope of the problem...
  #3  
Old 03-26-2020, 09:39 PM
Little Nemo is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Western New York
Posts: 86,410
Leadership will, justifiably, be a primary issue. Because Trump has shown that he lacks that needed quality in a crisis.

I suggested before that the Democrats should push the issue of sex crimes. It's an important issue. It's an issue where they can show a clear divide between how the Democrats have responded and how the Republicans have failed. It's an issue that Trump can't distance himself from. And it's an issue that can cut into the Republican base.

If the Democrats get control in Washington, I think one of their most important priorities has to be voting rights. The Republicans have been engaged in an ongoing campaign of manipulating the election system. We need to build some big strong walls around our ability to vote before the Republicans render elections meaningless.
  #4  
Old 03-27-2020, 05:22 AM
Manwich is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Japan
Posts: 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThelmaLou View Post
To return the country to normalcy for openers, but also to show how the Democrats, once they have restored normalcy, can believably deliver a good future.
I think this is the key - avoid this. Normalcy wasn't working for a lot of Americans who had precarious employment at best even before Trump. He obviously preyed on people's racism and economic insecurity. But the USA is already great line won't work for them.

Why "normalcy" first? Why not tangible policies that will benefit Americans who are suffering most right now? Nothing vague, nothing labyrinthinely means tested or otherwise complicated.

Biden can sell the cure to Corona impact with a smile: health care, job security for casual workers, higher minimum wage.

You can't beat Trump on leadership, go on policy for a change.
  #5  
Old 03-27-2020, 06:14 AM
msmith537 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 28,158
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manwich View Post
You can't beat Trump on leadership, go on policy for a change.

Trump has a sort of vacuous, superficial, self important leadership style that is effective when nothing of significance needs to get done. The kind that's suitable for the CEO of a family-owned company, host of a reality TV show, or president of a fraternity. That is to say, he exhibits the trappings of someone who is "successful", tells people what they want to hear, and mocks and belittles anyone who doesn't agree with him. And there is a certain subset of people who will follow that. And for the most part, when the economy was humming along and there's no major catastrophe out there, that's fine.

Trump does not have actual leadership required for an actual crisis. The kind that is required for making tough choices, giving people difficult news and inspiring them to pull through it. He can't Tweet or bullshit his way around COVID-19. At best Trump can try to throw blame around and defer it away from himself.

For a great example of actual leadership, look at NY governor Andrew Cuomo's handling of the crisis.


For a more conservative perspective, I look to a handful of friends who cling to bizarre conservative talking points and my wife's family who are dumb-as shit PA / Northern NJ hicks. The thing is, they will likely continue to vote for Trump because they are a) insane and b) dumb as shit. And what I mean is that no matter how bad things get, many will not vote Democrat because some of them think crazy shit like the Democrats will use FEMA to take all their guns and make the world Socialist. Or they will start locking up dissidents in the Federal Reserve. Or the dumb as shit ones like my simple inlaws will just vote Republican because that's just what they do and they believe anything Fox News or anyone else projecting conservative authority tells them.



I'm not a political consultant, but I suspect that whoever runs against Trump (presumably Biden) will need to project strong leadership that will get the country back on its feet, while allowing Trump to portray himself as the inept empty suit that he is.
  #6  
Old 03-27-2020, 06:25 AM
Manwich is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Japan
Posts: 551
I'm not saying you can't beat Trump on leadership because he is, or even seems to be, a good leader. He objectively is not.

I'm saying it won't work because it clearly doesn't matter. American re-elected a senile President and a hereditary faux-buffoon after leading the country into a war based on lies. Leadership does not matter.

Talk about what you want to happen.
  #7  
Old 03-27-2020, 06:41 AM
RTFirefly is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Maryland
Posts: 41,333
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manwich View Post
Biden can sell the cure to Corona impact with a smile: health care, job security for casual workers, higher minimum wage.
Yeah, riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

Look, the main COVID-19 impact isn't going to be economic. It's going to be hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions, of dead Americans. Almost surely the latter if Trump remains in office.

As soon as the House passes and Trump signs the relief bill, the Democratic Party needs to speak with a unified voice: Trump's catastrophic 'leadership' will cost hundreds of thousands of American lives, and he must be removed ASAP. If he will not resign, then the Cabinet must invoke the 25th Amendment. If neither of those happens, then the House will impeach, and the Senate must remove.

Then when the deaths get into the hundreds of thousands - as they will - the Democrats will have gotten in front, and saddled Trump, the Senate Republicans, and the GOP as a whole with the responsibility.
  #8  
Old 03-27-2020, 07:38 AM
ThelmaLou's Avatar
ThelmaLou is online now
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Neither here nor there
Posts: 18,363
Thanks for these thoughtful replies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RTFirefly View Post
...
As soon as the House passes and Trump signs the relief bill, the Democratic Party needs to speak with a unified voice: Trump's catastrophic 'leadership' will cost hundreds of thousands of American lives, and he must be removed ASAP. If he will not resign, then the Cabinet must invoke the 25th Amendment. If neither of those happens, then the House will impeach, and the Senate must remove.

Then when the deaths get into the hundreds of thousands - as they will - the Democrats will have gotten in front, and saddled Trump, the Senate Republicans, and the GOP as a whole with the responsibility.
I agree that this has to happen first. It should have happened already. It should happen today!

But what about AFTER... what about the presidential campaign? "Anybody but trump" will work for a while, but it won't be enough. As I said somewhere else, if trump is raptured soon and Pence takes over, HE will turn out to be the "anybody but trump," and will likely get elected on that basis alone. Then he will be McConnell's new hand puppet.

The Dems have to offer more than what their candidate WON'T be.
  #9  
Old 03-27-2020, 08:26 AM
Shodan is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Milky Way Galaxy
Posts: 40,870
Quote:
Originally Posted by RTFirefly View Post
Yeah, riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

Look, the main COVID-19 impact isn't going to be economic. It's going to be hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions, of dead Americans. Almost surely the latter if Trump remains in office.

As soon as the House passes and Trump signs the relief bill, the Democratic Party needs to speak with a unified voice: Trump's catastrophic 'leadership' will cost hundreds of thousands of American lives, and he must be removed ASAP. If he will not resign, then the Cabinet must invoke the 25th Amendment. If neither of those happens, then the House will impeach, and the Senate must remove.

Then when the deaths get into the hundreds of thousands - as they will - the Democrats will have gotten in front, and saddled Trump, the Senate Republicans, and the GOP as a whole with the responsibility.
Hmm.

So, right after Congress passes the Corona relief bill, with massive bipartisan support, the Democrats will rely on a groundswell of opinion to take time away from everything else for the House to hold impeachment hearings, vote, pass it to the Senate, then somehow all the Republicans and those Democrats in the Senate who voted to acquit last time are convinced to vote to remove this time, based on no new evidence, and Trump is removed. And Pence becomes President.

Then hundreds of thousands die anyway, and then Democrats can proudly point to the fact that what they focused on didn't do any good.

Not sure I agree 100% with your detective work there, Lou.

Regards,
Shodan

Last edited by Shodan; 03-27-2020 at 08:26 AM.
  #10  
Old 03-27-2020, 08:43 AM
Jonathan Chance is offline
Domo Arigato Mister Moderato
Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: On the run with Kilroy
Posts: 23,692
Gotta admit, pushing for impeachment right now just smacks of irrationality. We get it, he's a moron and you hate him. Hell, *I* think he's a moron and I hate him. But I also know that's a damn stupid approach to take if you want to win elections.

Instead, Biden should focus on positive actions he plans to take. Let him stick to 'I'll do THIS for you and THAT for you' like he's singing about Bonnie Lasses going this way and that way. Let the rest of the team - Plouffe and others - run the negative ads. Trump, being so negative, will make it easy to make a strong distinction for Biden when he's positive about the things he's going to do. Please like positivity and WANT to respond to it. That's part of Trump's charm, believe it or not. Biden needs to sit back, maintain a straightforward, optimistic message and allow Trump to set himself up.

The do some mockery in the debates a la 'Malarkey' where he appears genial and working class and see what Trump gives him.
  #11  
Old 03-27-2020, 09:11 AM
ThelmaLou's Avatar
ThelmaLou is online now
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Neither here nor there
Posts: 18,363
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Chance View Post
Gotta admit, pushing for impeachment right now just smacks of irrationality. We get it, he's a moron and you hate him. Hell, *I* think he's a moron and I hate him. But I also know that's a damn stupid approach to take if you want to win elections.

Instead, Biden should focus on positive actions he plans to take. Let him stick to 'I'll do THIS for you and THAT for you' like he's singing about Bonnie Lasses going this way and that way. Let the rest of the team - Plouffe and others - run the negative ads. Trump, being so negative, will make it easy to make a strong distinction for Biden when he's positive about the things he's going to do. Please like positivity and WANT to respond to it. That's part of Trump's charm, believe it or not. Biden needs to sit back, maintain a straightforward, optimistic message and allow Trump to set himself up.

The do some mockery in the debates a la 'Malarkey' where he appears genial and working class and see what Trump gives him.
Yes. This.

From an article about Boris Johnson in the New York Times today. Sound familiar?
Quote:
...The problem is that he [Johnson] has been preparing for the wrong part. The man came to power playing Falstaff, a double-dealing, comically entertaining, shameless rogue; now he is suddenly onstage as Henry V, the wartime king whose solemn judgment, intense focus, charisma and conviction must lead his nation in a time of crisis. Mr. Johnson does not know how to play that part, and it shows. This is not a rehearsal. His careless, inexcusable reluctance to track and halt the virus earlier will have cost lives.....
This is what Biden needs to be, "Henry V, the wartime king whose solemn judgment, intense focus, charisma and conviction must lead his nation in a time of crisis," but the party needs specific steps, plans, a strategy to take the country out of this black hole, and it needs to present that strategy clearly and sell it during the campaign. The campaign needs a clearly articulated program to beat trump if he survives to run again or to beat Pence if he is president in November.

"Clearly articulated"... ogod...

Last edited by ThelmaLou; 03-27-2020 at 09:14 AM.
  #12  
Old 03-27-2020, 09:16 AM
Shodan is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Milky Way Galaxy
Posts: 40,870
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Chance View Post
Instead, Biden should focus on positive actions he plans to take. Let him stick to 'I'll do THIS for you and THAT for you' like he's singing about Bonnie Lasses going this way and that way.
Like what, for instance?

If he wants to get specific, that's great, but then he has to get specific. Spend more? Continue the lock down longer, or lift it sooner? (If he says "I'll lift it as soon as the curve flattens" that isn't different from Trump.) Implement M4A? Address global warming?

Positivity is great, too. "I would have done everything better and sooner" isn't all that positive. "I wouldn't have cut funding for the CDC to fight global pandemics" might fly, providing nobody notices that funding for the CDC wasn't cut.

Hindsight's 20/20, of course, so maybe he can sell it. But talking about what he is going to do to address the crisis is different from talking about what he would have done, unless he can point to somewhere where he mentioned the issue sooner than Trump, or other world leaders.

Regards,
Shodan
  #13  
Old 03-27-2020, 09:19 AM
ThelmaLou's Avatar
ThelmaLou is online now
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Neither here nor there
Posts: 18,363
NM

Last edited by ThelmaLou; 03-27-2020 at 09:20 AM.
  #14  
Old 03-27-2020, 09:26 AM
Jonathan Chance is offline
Domo Arigato Mister Moderato
Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: On the run with Kilroy
Posts: 23,692
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shodan View Post
Like what, for instance?

If he wants to get specific, that's great, but then he has to get specific. Spend more? Continue the lock down longer, or lift it sooner? (If he says "I'll lift it as soon as the curve flattens" that isn't different from Trump.) Implement M4A? Address global warming?

Positivity is great, too. "I would have done everything better and sooner" isn't all that positive. "I wouldn't have cut funding for the CDC to fight global pandemics" might fly, providing nobody notices that funding for the CDC wasn't cut.

Hindsight's 20/20, of course, so maybe he can sell it. But talking about what he is going to do to address the crisis is different from talking about what he would have done, unless he can point to somewhere where he mentioned the issue sooner than Trump, or other world leaders.

Regards,
Shodan
You'll pardon me if I don't accept your advice on, well, anything when it comes to democratic politics and positive electioneering.

Being positive isn't about what he would have done. It's about establishing a vision and looking forward. No one accomplishes anything by saying 'what he would have done'. Biden needs to maintain that positive worldview and sell it. Problems DO have solutions. Difficulties CAN be overcome. He IS the one who can do it.

That's all people really want. The belief - justified or not (in the case of Trump, completely un-) - that they can vote for someone who believes he can move the needle in a positive direction. They'll vote for confidence long before they'll vote for competence. If competence were the deciding factor the progressive contender would have been Warren, not Bernie.
  #15  
Old 03-27-2020, 09:41 AM
RTFirefly is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Maryland
Posts: 41,333
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Chance View Post
Gotta admit, pushing for impeachment right now just smacks of irrationality. We get it, he's a moron and you hate him.
He is a moron. But I've never hated him.

OTOH, I hate the fact that hundreds of thousands more people will die if he remains in office, than if he were removed right now, even to be replaced by Mike Pence.

This should fucking matter. I'm confused as to why anything else should.

This would be the House giving the Senate one last opportunity to reduce the scale of the oncoming catastrophe. End of story.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shodan View Post
So, right after Congress passes the Corona relief bill, with massive bipartisan support, the Democrats will rely on a groundswell of opinion to take time away from everything else for the House to hold impeachment hearings, vote
How much time is needed? Two or three hours to list the ways that Trump not only has botched our response to the coronavirus, but continues to diddle around instead of doing basic stuff like invoking the Defense Production Act and setting a national shutdown so that everyone can be home for the same three weeks, and all the head games he plays with governors about how "if you're nice to me, I might help you out, and if I don't think you've groveled enough, I'll punish the people of your state."

This should be done and sent to the Senate this weekend.
Quote:
then somehow all the Republicans and those Democrats in the Senate who voted to acquit last time
JFTR, "those Democrats in the Senate who voted to acquit last time" is the empty set.
Quote:
are convinced to vote to remove this time, based on no new evidence
No new evidence?? We've got his coronavirus track record, right up to the moment the Senate votes.
Quote:
and Trump is removed. And Pence becomes President.

Then hundreds of thousands die anyway, and then Democrats can proudly point to the fact that what they focused on didn't do any good.
That the deaths will get into six figures is pretty much baked in at this point. I'd like them to not reach seven figures. If Trump is actually removed and Pence becomes President, I will take that as a win, even if Pence is elected to a term of his own in November. Because Pence will at least do the basics that any President, Republican or Democrat, would do in a situation like this. And that will save hundreds of thousands of lives.

Last edited by RTFirefly; 03-27-2020 at 09:42 AM.
  #16  
Old 03-27-2020, 09:51 AM
RTFirefly is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Maryland
Posts: 41,333
It's really simple, folks: Trump is the main obstacle to a coherent national response to the crisis we're in with the coronavirus. Therefore, Job 1 is to remove Trump, or to at least give the U.S. Senate the opportunity to do so.

What happens next is up to them. If they remove Trump, then thank the Lord. If they don't, then so many people will have died by November that the election will be about who's to blame. And the Democrats will have made that crystal-clear.
  #17  
Old 03-27-2020, 09:53 AM
ThelmaLou's Avatar
ThelmaLou is online now
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Neither here nor there
Posts: 18,363
I agree with absolutely everything re trump and the danger of having him continue as president.

With respect, and at the risk of being accused of "junior modding," can we resist that side road-- at least in this thread-- and get back to the question: "What specific points do the Dems need to make to sell their candidate (Biden) as the one who can get the country back on track (whether Biden is running against trump or Pence)?"
  #18  
Old 03-27-2020, 10:16 AM
Jonathan Chance is offline
Domo Arigato Mister Moderato
Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: On the run with Kilroy
Posts: 23,692
Quote:
Originally Posted by RTFirefly View Post
He is a moron. But I've never hated him.

OTOH, I hate the fact that hundreds of thousands more people will die if he remains in office, than if he were removed right now, even to be replaced by Mike Pence.

This should fucking matter. I'm confused as to why anything else should.
Because, against all efficacy, we impeached him a few months ago and it failed. Regardless of anything else, doing it again now will only work against us in November. AND it would fail again.

Every single time I hear someone - well-meaning and honest, surely - railing at the sky about how Trump STILL needs to be removed now I know we've just lost 2 or 3 more votes in November FOR NO GAIN.

The world isn't what we wish it to be. Nor is voter behavior. Impeachment was a mistake. It accomplished nothing. Doing it again would be a catastrophe and AGAIN accomplish nothing.
  #19  
Old 03-27-2020, 10:22 AM
Shodan is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Milky Way Galaxy
Posts: 40,870
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Chance View Post
You'll pardon me if I don't accept your advice on, well, anything when it comes to democratic politics and positive electioneering.
No one ever does, worse luck.
Quote:
Being positive isn't about what he would have done. It's about establishing a vision and looking forward. No one accomplishes anything by saying 'what he would have done'. Biden needs to maintain that positive worldview and sell it. Problems DO have solutions. Difficulties CAN be overcome. He IS the one who can do it.
This is rather different from
Quote:
Instead, Biden should focus on positive actions he plans to take. Let him stick to 'I'll do THIS for you and THAT for you' like he's singing about Bonnie Lasses going this way and that way.
because there isn't any THIS or THAT.

Focusing on positive actions you are going to take is not the same thing as "I am confident we can solve our problems and make America great again! No Malarkey!"

Regards,
Shodan
  #20  
Old 03-27-2020, 10:34 AM
Ashtura is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Delaware, USA
Posts: 2,982
Record players, leg hairs, Corn Pop, poor kids vs white kids, Super Thursday, etc.
  #21  
Old 03-27-2020, 11:00 AM
RTFirefly is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Maryland
Posts: 41,333
ThelmaLou, I need to reply to this. Then I'll shut up, even though this is what I quite honestly think that this is what the Dems need to do about November.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Chance View Post
Because, against all efficacy, we impeached him a few months ago and it failed.
I don't get the significance of this. We knew it would fail then! We did it because impeaching him was the right thing to do.

This is far more true this time than it was then. That's a damned high bar to clear, but when your own President is a clear and present danger to the country, you don't sit on your hands, even if you've already impeached him for something else.
Quote:
Regardless of anything else, doing it again now will only work against us in November.
I don't see how. I see how there would be (metaphorical) lynch mobs waiting for GOP Senators.
Quote:
AND it would fail again.
Yes, it would. And people all over the country would be looking at their GOP Senators and saying, "my granny died because of YOU." And having to restrain themselves from punching the Senators in the face.
  #22  
Old 03-28-2020, 07:25 PM
ThelmaLou's Avatar
ThelmaLou is online now
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Neither here nor there
Posts: 18,363
From another thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by racepug View Post
I feel much the same way about Herr Drumpf that the OP does and I'm not optimistic that he'll be beaten in November, either, not least because the Democrats did their usual LOUSY job of coming up with a presidential candidate. Could "Gaffey Joe" win in November? Sure. I suppose anything's possible. I mean, even the Mango Moron didn't actually believe he'd win last time. But am I expecting Gaffey Joe to win? He's a limp noodle with absolutely NO message to sell to the U.S. electorate so - Nope. Not at all. Again, thanks, Democratic Party. . .for absolutely NUTHIN'.
My bold.

Okay, so what should his message BE? C'mon, peeps!
  #23  
Old 03-29-2020, 02:59 AM
septimus's Avatar
septimus is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the Land of Smiles
Posts: 21,586
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Chance View Post
Originally Posted by Shodan
... "I wouldn't have cut funding for the CDC to fight global pandemics" might fly, providing nobody notices that funding for the CDC wasn't cut....

Regards,
Shodan
You'll pardon me if I don't accept your advice on, well, anything when it comes to democratic politics and positive electioneering.
Moreover, Mr. Shodan's claim that funding for CDC was not cut is simply false. Is there a way to find ALL opinions by fact-checking sites re: claims about CDC funding? Mr. Shodan has cherry-picked one claim. Here's another:
Quote:
Amid warnings from public health officials that a 2020 outbreak of a new coronavirus could soon become a pandemic involving the U.S., alarmed readers asked Snopes to verify a rumor that U.S. President Donald Trump had ďfired the entire pandemic response team two years ago and then didnít replace them.Ē
...
TRUE.
What has been the trend in CDC funding? "FY 2017 Budget request for CDC and the Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry (ATSDR) is $11.9 billion ... The Fiscal Year (FY) 2018 Budget for CDC and the Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry (ATSDR) is $11.1 billion." That's already a large cut. Due to a reorganization FY 2019 and 2020 figures aren't comparable; I'll let a better Googler track that down. Please do NOT copy spin from the official CDC website: this is now controlled by lying lackeys of the autocrat.

Here's an excerpt (with my emphasis) from http://thenationshealth.aphapublications.org that will give some idea of Trump Administration's funding for public health:
Quote:
Trump released his fiscal year 2020 federal budget proposal in March [2019], recommending huge cuts across the federal government, including a 12 percent cut to the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services and a [further] 10 percent cut for the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

On programs that impact many social determinants of health, Trumpís budget proposes more huge reductions, including a $777 billion cut to Medicaid over 10 years, as well as nearly $600 billion in net Medicare spending reductions. According to the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, Trumpís 2020 budget would cut Social Security assistance for people with disabilities, cut billions from Temporary Assistance for Needy Families, raise the rent for low-income households receiving housing assistance, and cut the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program by $220 billion over the next decade.

Other public health-related agencies under the ax in the White House budget include a 31 percent reduction at the Environmental Protection Agency, an 18 percent cut for the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development, and a 15 percent cut to the U.S. Department of Agriculture.

The budget proposes a $1 billion cut to the Health Resources and Services Administration, a $4.7 billion cut to the National Institutes of Health, including a nearly $900 million cut for the National Cancer Institute, and a cut of $65 million at the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration.
  #24  
Old 03-29-2020, 04:10 AM
Superdude's Avatar
Superdude is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Fortress of Solidude
Posts: 11,132
Quote:
Originally Posted by RTFirefly View Post
ThelmaLou, I need to reply to this. Then I'll shut up, even though this is what I quite honestly think that this is what the Dems need to do about November.

I don't get the significance of this. We knew it would fail then! We did it because impeaching him was the right thing to do.



This is far more true this time than it was then. That's a damned high bar to clear, but when your own President is a clear and present danger to the country, you don't sit on your hands, even if you've already impeached him for something else. I don't see how. I see how there would be (metaphorical) lynch mobs waiting for GOP Senators. Yes, it would. And people all over the country would be looking at their GOP Senators and saying, "my granny died because of YOU." And having to restrain themselves from punching the Senators in the face.
It would fail again because the Republicans aren't going to remove Trump as POTUS under ANY circumstances. They might be willing to censure him if he were to grab McConnell by the jowls and open spray fart into Mitch's neckrolls. Maybe.

And then Trump would be able to use that second failed impeachment attempt as even more fodder for his rants. Two impeachment attempts in the same year, both unsuccessful, would let him coast to reelection because he could spin it as "the Democrats are so inept that all they can do is try to remove me from office. They don't care about the country. It's personal. They couldn't get me on the Russia hoax. They failed at impeaching me before. All they want is revenge because they were made to look like fools and have no ideas!"
__________________
It's chaos. Be kind.
  #25  
Old 03-29-2020, 07:23 AM
ThelmaLou's Avatar
ThelmaLou is online now
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Neither here nor there
Posts: 18,363
Okay, now I'm getting irritated.

Yes, trump needs to go. There are 452 ZILLION threads here that say that in multiple ways. Some of the first ones to say it were mine. Got it.

NEW SUBJECT: Most (I agree, sadly, it's not all) of us agree that a Democrat needs to win the White House in November (and the Senate and keep the House). I've heard on the board that Biden is lame, the Democrats are lame, and they have no clear message to the American people stating why a Democrat should be installed in the White House in 2021.

Okay. What should Biden and the Dems be saying?

How will a Democratic administration make any difference to the American public except for not having to read DJT's tweets every day?

What SPECIFICALLY should be the Democratic platform, talking points, issues, assurances (not promises - those don't work)? What can/will a new administration DO to get the country back to normal, undo the damage of the trump years, and put us on a positive course for the future? Running on just being "not-trump" isn't going to be enough.

Or else just admit, "I don't have any freakin' idea, 'cause we're down to our last roll of TP, so get out of my face about the election! I can't even think about it while I'm in lockdown!"

And then this thread can die a natural death until October...
  #26  
Old 03-29-2020, 08:58 AM
str8cashhomie is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 244
To be honest, I don't know what the slogan should be, but I think the most important issue to emphasize is healthcare. I thought Buttigieg's "Medicare for all who want it slogan" was pretty powerful, but obviously that's more tailored to democratic primary voters - maybe it would work on GE voters but it might not have universal appeal. I also wonder if just saying "public option" as much as you can would work. Ideally you'd find something that means "public option" or "healthcare for all who want it" but is a little more vague so that people don't get bogged down with policy specifics.
  #27  
Old 03-29-2020, 09:05 AM
ThelmaLou's Avatar
ThelmaLou is online now
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Neither here nor there
Posts: 18,363
Thank you for that. After this public health crisis, I'm sure medical coverage is on lots of people's minds.
  #28  
Old 03-29-2020, 10:31 AM
Crane is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 1,324
It's like one of those situations they pose in management courses:

"You're hiking a mountain trail and you meet a giant, fierce, threatening bear. What do you do?"

You eat the bear! and that's what the Dems have to do - EAT THE FUCKING BEAR!

The critical issue is all Trump/COV19 and that's the message:

Dems will restore the CDC, rebuild the health care infrastructure, restore and enlarge the Pandemic Response Team, vaccinate the entire population, increase the number of doctors and nurses in training, greatly expand the teaching of science in schools, restore the Constitutional structure of government - because - Trump was unable to understand the COV19 science and acted in ways that caused the pandemic to spread and become so severe - out of ignorance Trump fired the Pandemic Response Team - Trump defunded the CDC - Trump denied the existence of the threat - Trump delayed action - Trump is the icon of failed leadership.

I agree that the Dems get nowhere whining about Trump, but the positive message has to be used to crush the Trump image. They have to Eat the Bear!
  #29  
Old 03-29-2020, 12:36 PM
ThelmaLou's Avatar
ThelmaLou is online now
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Neither here nor there
Posts: 18,363
I like it.
  #30  
Old 03-29-2020, 03:47 PM
Shodan is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Milky Way Galaxy
Posts: 40,870
Quote:
Originally Posted by septimus View Post
Moreover, Mr. Shodan's claim that funding for CDC was not cut is simply false. Is there a way to find ALL opinions by fact-checking sites re: claims about CDC funding? Mr. Shodan has cherry-picked one claim. Here's another:
It is always entertaining to see people post cites that prove what they say is wrong, with such triumph.
Quote:
Due to a reorganization FY 2019 and 2020 figures aren't comparable; I'll let a better Googler track that down. Please do NOT copy spin from the official CDC website: this is now controlled by lying lackeys of the autocrat.
And then out into the even more entertaining world of conspiracy theories.

As I said, this kind of thing works with some people. Of course, those who rely on fake news for their world view are not confined to one side of the political aisle or the other.

Regards,
Shodan
  #31  
Old 03-29-2020, 06:55 PM
Jonathan Chance is offline
Domo Arigato Mister Moderato
Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: On the run with Kilroy
Posts: 23,692

The Moderator Speaks


Stay on target, people.
  #32  
Old 03-29-2020, 07:10 PM
Larry Borgia's Avatar
Larry Borgia is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Washington DC
Posts: 11,105
What does Biden need to say? First he needs to outline everything the Trump administration has done wrong in dealing with this crisis. Then he needs to outline a clear plan for dealing with this pandemic and the next, which will come. He needs to look the camera in the eye and give a message that is clear direct and measured.

I'm very proud of myself for typing all that with a straight face.
  #33  
Old 03-30-2020, 06:43 AM
Boycott is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 610
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Borgia View Post
What does Biden need to say? First he needs to outline everything the Trump administration has done wrong in dealing with this crisis. Then he needs to outline a clear plan for dealing with this pandemic and the next, which will come. He needs to look the camera in the eye and give a message that is clear direct and measured.

I'm very proud of myself for typing all that with a straight face.
He's been doing the TV round this past week. Did a virtual town hall with Anderson Cooper on Friday night. Basically said all the right things ... but he does not hold office now. I think the campaign has to be careful that a) they don't appear to politicize while the pandemic is climbing and b) they don't step on the toes of governors and mayors who are having to plead for the federal government to step up.

There's only so much Biden can say before people tune out since he is not able to make direct decisions.
  #34  
Old 03-30-2020, 09:53 AM
Crane is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 1,324
Boycott,

Good point, but he can praise the Governors and Mayors and totally ignore Trump.
  #35  
Old 03-30-2020, 10:19 AM
ThelmaLou's Avatar
ThelmaLou is online now
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Neither here nor there
Posts: 18,363
Trump Won the Internet. Democrats Are Scrambling to Take It Back.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/30/u...-strategy.html
Quote:
...Mr. Biden has only 4.6 million Twitter followers to Mr. Trumpís 75 million, 1.7 million Facebook fans to Mr. Trumpís 28 million, and nothing resembling the presidentís robust ecosystem of amplifying accounts.
...

As Mr. Biden closes in on his partyís nomination, that digital mismatch underscores one of the Democratsí biggest general-election challenges: They are up against a political figure who has marshaled all the forces of the modern web to refract reality and savage his opponents. Yet they are starting from a deficit, struggling to regain their once-formidable online edge.

Now closing this technological divide has taken on deepening urgency, with public life shut down against the threat of the coronavirus. Already, Mr. Bidenís allies have expressed anxiety about his ability to break into the national conversation around the pandemic as it reverberates from the presidentís daily briefings to social media feeds.
...

In interviews with more than 30 leaders across all the factions, Democrats and progressives were cautiously optimistic that their technological machinery would be in fighting shape for the general election. None, though, said it was yet where it needed to be.

It will almost certainly fall to Mr. Biden to bring it all together.

....
I don't know if this article is paywalled. If you can access it and have the stomach for it, it details the conservative/Republican tidal wave that took control of the digital side of messaging and campaigning. It will curl your hair.

The point being that it won't matter what the Democratic message is if they and Biden can't be "heard" over the daily din that is trump's cacophanous campaign machine, the Soundtrack of Our Lives.

Reader comments suggest that Bernie is the candidate who CAN command the digital audience, casting him as the winner FDR to trump's Hoover, leaving inconsequential Biden in the dust. And Bernie doesn't plan to give up. We are fucked.

I'm starting to think this whole thread is moot... I might have to lie down for a while...
  #36  
Old 03-30-2020, 12:11 PM
ThelmaLou's Avatar
ThelmaLou is online now
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Neither here nor there
Posts: 18,363
Waiting for xanax to kick in...

Maybe these are some issues that need to be in the Dem platform. (Formatting in original)

For some, coronavirus pushes new issues to top of national agenda
Quote:
The coronavirus pandemic is helping shift policy priorities for some Americans, according to results from an online caucus the Glover Park Group provided to Axios.

Why it matters: Crises can force the nation to acknowledge bipartisan problems that are often neglected due to lack of a political motivation to solve them.

The big picture: Equal numbers of respondents (72%) cited each side of the crisis as a top concern ó be it getting sick or losing someone close, or the economic damage inflicted by the lockdown.
  • Worker protections and paid leave: According to the survey, paid leave and worker pay top the list of actions that Americans want to see businesses take to ease the crisis.
  • Manufacturing: According to the report, more Americans are concerned about American dependence on supply chains outside of the U.S.
  • Broadband inequality: School closures and remote work across the country are showcasing how inequities in access to high-speed broadband can impact access to education and work during a time of crisis.
  • Education: The Glover Park Group research found that parents are worried about the long-term impact the coronavirus will have on the achievement gap.
  • Mental health is becoming a bigger national concern as more Americans are forced to remain isolated away from loved ones and support systems.

The bottom line: The windows for change can be short, so it's unclear whether Americans will keep wanting these changes after the crisis calms down.
....
  #37  
Old 03-30-2020, 12:44 PM
Shodan is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Milky Way Galaxy
Posts: 40,870
Do you have any more information about this online caucus? I can't tell if it is intended to represent anything.

The Glover Park group mentioned is a PR firm founded by members of the Clinton and Gore administration and campaigns, so they might be closer to an advocacy group than a survey group. The part about education in particular struck me as odd - that parents would be concerned, not about the shut down's impact on education in general, but on "the achievement gap" in particular.

Also, "thousands may die, but what worries me is that not everyone has access to high-speed internet".
Quote:
According to the survey, paid leave and worker pay top the list of actions that Americans want to see businesses take to ease the crisis.
As usual, the devil is in the details. If Biden wants to push this, how does it work, and where does the pay come from?

If it is increased unemployment insurance, but in a new way, OK, but how is it better than what is being done now?

Regards,
Shodan
  #38  
Old 03-30-2020, 01:07 PM
Akaj's Avatar
Akaj is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: In the vanishing middle
Posts: 1,064
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crane View Post
Dems will restore the CDC, rebuild the health care infrastructure, restore and enlarge the Pandemic Response Team, vaccinate the entire population, increase the number of doctors and nurses in training, greatly expand the teaching of science in schools, restore the Constitutional structure of government - because - Trump was unable to understand the COV19 science and acted in ways that caused the pandemic to spread and become so severe - out of ignorance Trump fired the Pandemic Response Team - Trump defunded the CDC - Trump denied the existence of the threat - Trump delayed action - Trump is the icon of failed leadership.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThelmaLou View Post
Waiting for xanax to kick in...

Maybe these are some issues that need to be in the Dem platform. (Formatting in original)

For some, coronavirus pushes new issues to top of national agenda
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shodan View Post
The Glover Park group mentioned is a PR firm founded by members of the Clinton and Gore administration and campaigns, so they might be closer to an advocacy group than a survey group. The part about education in particular struck me as odd - that parents would be concerned, not about the shut down's impact on education in general, but on "the achievement gap" in particular.

Also, "thousands may die, but what worries me is that not everyone has access to high-speed internet". As usual, the devil is in the details. If Biden wants to push this, how does it work, and where does the pay come from?

If it is increased unemployment insurance, but in a new way, OK, but how is it better than what is being done now?
(quotes snipped)

I agree with a lot of what Crane says and think Shodan makes a good point. Let's not make this about leveraging distress and outrage about COVID-19 into areas that comfortably align with existing Dem objectives (social safety net, inequality, etc.). Let's propose a comprehensive plan (on the order of military preparedness) that makes sure we recover from this pandemic and that we're not crippled by the next one. The second part would include:
  • Guarantees that no one (regardless of whether or how they have health insurance) would be denied prompt testing and appropriate care
  • Capacity built into the healthcare system to ensure that its main priority is patient care for everyone who needs it, not simply profits
  • Incentives for recruiting and educating more doctors, nurses and other clinicians who, like members of our military, run into the thick of the crisis when everyone else is taking shelter
That's just off the top of my head. How would all this come about? How much would it all cost? No idea. But laying out a coherent vision like this for the future would be a stark contrast to the way Trump & Co have bumbled their way through this crisis, and while critics might nibble at the particulars who could really argue with the general scope?
__________________
I'm not expecting any surprises.
  #39  
Old 03-30-2020, 02:26 PM
Crane is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 1,324
"Promote the general welfare"
  #40  
Old 03-31-2020, 10:44 AM
Wrenching Spanners is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: London
Posts: 844
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThelmaLou View Post
What should Biden and the party outline as the components of that restorative course of action?
1. A jobs program. Millions of Americans are going to be unemployed after the Corona Virus subsides because the businesses they work for couldn't handles a weeks or months long shutdown. Those people aren't going to want to be unemployed or on welfare. A program to see their employment restored into new jobs will be both necessary and popular.

2. Infrastructure projects. Somewhat tied to the above. Establish a plan to spend money repairing roads, fixing up parks, cleaning up blighted areas, and improving telecommunication abilities. Make it clear that an company awarded a contract for an infrastructure project will need to hire additional employees.

3. A nationwide child care program, supported by childcare training. Again, this is about getting people back to work. This would be both directly, by moving people into childcare jobs, and indirectly, by enabling people who have to make a trade-off between expensive child care versus a job to avoid that trade-off.

4. An entrepreneurs initiative. Not direct handouts to businesses, but a program of cheap start-up loans, access to cheap health insurance for employees, deferred payroll taxes, streamlined licenses and regulations, and access to government procurement proposals.

5. Support for manufacturing, especially for health-care equipment. This shouldn't be about eliminating the import of better, cheaper foreign made products. But if the trade-off is between a better domestic product or a cheaper foreign one, weight the choice towards the better domestic product. Also consider tariffs or other restrictions against countries with poor pollution or human rights records. And make protection of proprietary knowledge a key government policy.
  #41  
Old 03-31-2020, 11:03 AM
CarnalK's Avatar
CarnalK is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 20,168
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shodan View Post
Also, "thousands may die, but what worries me is that not everyone has access to high-speed internet". As usual, the devil is in the details. If Biden wants to push this, how does it work, and where does the pay come from?
I think the point was, more people can die during a crisis if they don't have the option to work/school/shop from home. Nowadays, would anyone even raise an eyebrow if high-speed internet was part of a big infrastructure improvement plan?
  #42  
Old 03-31-2020, 11:07 AM
iiandyiiii's Avatar
iiandyiiii is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 37,932
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarnalK View Post
I think the point was, more people can die during a crisis if they don't have the option to work/school/shop from home. Nowadays, would anyone even raise an eyebrow if high-speed internet was part of a big infrastructure improvement plan?
Exactly. Lack of steady internet access is just another way that being poor can cost you money. With the internet, I routinely research the best price/value for something I want to buy. Or the best doctor/specialist nearby. I can find the exact car I want, within 50 miles, with the internet. But without it, I'd have to go to the nearby used car lots and hope they're not selling me a pile of junk. Just as an example. Improved internet access would save lives by reducing unnecessary contact, and help the economy by enabling more people to take part.
  #43  
Old 03-31-2020, 11:43 AM
Anny Middon is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,380
First, Trump has already started to co-opt the Dem's point that he has mismanaged the COVID-19 crisis. Where once he was claiming that it was a hoax and only a few Americans would die, he's now saying that "only" 100,000 dead is a huge victory for his administration.

I've long thought and still think that Biden's campaign needs to stress looking to the future, that our best times as a country are yet to be, and that America will help lead the world into that better and brighter future.

After all, what is "Make America Great Again" but a look to the past? It's a past that never really existed, and even if it did exist, we can't travel back in time. And even if we could travel back to those days, no one really wants to. I can remember the 50's a bit, and even as a privileged white person I can tell you they weren't that friggin' great.
  #44  
Old 03-31-2020, 05:17 PM
Akaj's Avatar
Akaj is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: In the vanishing middle
Posts: 1,064
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anny Middon View Post
First, Trump has already started to co-opt the Dem's point that he has mismanaged the COVID-19 crisis. Where once he was claiming that it was a hoax and only a few Americans would die, he's now saying that "only" 100,000 dead is a huge victory for his administration.

I've long thought and still think that Biden's campaign needs to stress looking to the future, that our best times as a country are yet to be, and that America will help lead the world into that better and brighter future.

After all, what is "Make America Great Again" but a look to the past? It's a past that never really existed, and even if it did exist, we can't travel back in time. And even if we could travel back to those days, no one really wants to. I can remember the 50's a bit, and even as a privileged white person I can tell you they weren't that friggin' great.
Biden's only talking point might only have to be: When America needed a leader, Trump proved he wasn't one.
__________________
I'm not expecting any surprises.
  #45  
Old 03-31-2020, 05:27 PM
iiandyiiii's Avatar
iiandyiiii is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 37,932
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akaj View Post
Biden's only talking point might only have to be: When America needed a leader, Trump proved he wasn't one.
That's a great line!
__________________
My new novel Spindown
  #46  
Old 03-31-2020, 05:59 PM
CarnalK's Avatar
CarnalK is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 20,168
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akaj View Post
(quotes snipped)

I agree with a lot of what Crane says and think Shodan makes a good point. Let's not make this about leveraging distress and outrage about COVID-19 into areas that comfortably align with existing Dem objectives (social safety net, inequality, etc.). Let's propose a comprehensive plan (on the order of military preparedness) that makes sure we recover from this pandemic and that we're not crippled by the next one.
These aren't at odds. You can leverage outrage while still proposing a comprehensive plan. That's why you shouldn't be persuaded by someone like Shodan. He doesn't, even as an intellectual exercise, want to give good advice to Democrats. He wants Democrats to think Republican plans are a good idea. Or just get Dems to do stupid suicidal stuff.

Last edited by CarnalK; 03-31-2020 at 06:00 PM.
  #47  
Old 03-31-2020, 06:03 PM
Akaj's Avatar
Akaj is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: In the vanishing middle
Posts: 1,064
Quote:
Originally Posted by iiandyiiii View Post
That's a great line!
Thanks -- let's start printing bumper stickers!
__________________
I'm not expecting any surprises.
  #48  
Old 04-01-2020, 06:57 AM
Wrenching Spanners is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: London
Posts: 844
Quote:
Originally Posted by iiandyiiii View Post
Exactly. Lack of steady internet access is just another way that being poor can cost you money. With the internet, I routinely research the best price/value for something I want to buy. Or the best doctor/specialist nearby. I can find the exact car I want, within 50 miles, with the internet. But without it, I'd have to go to the nearby used car lots and hope they're not selling me a pile of junk. Just as an example. Improved internet access would save lives by reducing unnecessary contact, and help the economy by enabling more people to take part.
But are you talking about the telecommunications infrastructure aka fibre-optics, subsidised Internet access, or free Internet for everyone? I agree with treating the Internet as a utility, and that people should have the same access to high speed Internet as they do to electricity. I could also get behind providing a cheap Internet package to the unemployed as part of job-finding assistance, although I'm not sure Biden should campaign on something that nuanced. Subsidised Internet access to the poor sounds a lot like a handout, and there's a lot of blue-collar disfavour, especially among white blue-collar workers, to government benefit programs that can be categorised as handouts. https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-...-poverty-poll/ That's Joe Biden's most needed demographic. Free Internet for everyone? Democrats are in the process of rejecting big state programs as represented by Bernie Sanders. The last thing Biden's going to want is to be viewed as a big state proponent by the general public.

Last edited by Wrenching Spanners; 04-01-2020 at 06:59 AM.
  #49  
Old 04-01-2020, 07:52 AM
QuickSilver's Avatar
QuickSilver is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 21,370
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrenching Spanners View Post
The last thing Biden's going to want is to be viewed as a big state proponent by the general public.
Joe "This is a really big fucking deal!" Biden? That Biden?
__________________
St. QuickSilver: Patron Saint of Thermometers.
  #50  
Old 04-01-2020, 09:10 AM
Pantastic is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 4,937
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akaj View Post
Biden's only talking point might only have to be: When America needed a leader, Trump proved he wasn't one.
Remember, getting people to say "Ugh, they both suck" is the ideal strategy for Trump, so just pointing out that Trump sucks isn't likely to work. If the campaign ends up being about 'look, I'm not Donald Trump and he sucks' instead of 'here's why I'm a great leader and you should vote for me' I predict another red victory.
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:22 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@straightdope.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Copyright © 2019 STM Reader, LLC.

 
Copyright © 2017