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  #151  
Old 03-28-2020, 03:56 PM
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All Biden needs to do is say "it's absolutely false, and right now we are in the midst of a life and death crisis and we don't have time for this bullshit." Never apologize, never back down. If he does ANYTHING other than this, he's a self destructive fool. And anyone trying to hamstring Biden, from the left, on this, might as well be going around yanking out ventilator tubes.

I have resigned to the fact that Biden is our only horse here so stay the fuck out of his way.
I can't really disagree with any of this.
  #152  
Old 03-28-2020, 04:00 PM
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  #153  
Old 03-28-2020, 05:17 PM
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So, Tara Reade went to Time's Up about these allegations in January and was told that they couldn't take the case on account of it would jeopardize their standing as a nonprofit to bring a case against someone running for president. Coincidentally, I'm sure, the Biden campaign has poured over $800,000 into the coffers of SKD Knickerbocker, the parent organization that runs Time's Up, in that same exact time frame. Huh, coincidences sure are interesting, aren't they?

She brought this up last year in support of Lucy Flores and was attacked and doxxed by Biden supporters subsequently. Gosh, no reason to back off from pursuing it, right?

And, for the record, I'm now 61 years old but if, at any time, I'd discovered that Jack Hotchkiss, a man who used to live across the street from us, was running for high office or was being considered for a SCOTUS post you betcha ass I'd be out there disclosing that the fucker molested me when I was seven. Something I didn't disclose at the time because, well, I was seven and didn't really know what the fuck all THAT was about aside from the fact that I really didn't like it and didn't disclose it later because, well, what point would there be? It happened, it sucked and I went on with my life. But if I saw that shitbird on the tv grinning and gesticulating and asking people to vote for him you can wager your last thin dime that I'd be freaked out enough to get right on it letting people know they were being asked to vote for a pedophile who thought that showing his erect dick to little girls, shoving his hands down their pants and who did that in front of his four year old son--and who likely did the same things to my little sister too, who spent a lot of time at his house since she used to play with his kid. Because sometimes shit gets buried in your head and you get on with your life and it takes something out of the ordinary, like seeing your rapist on tv every fucking day and thinking about what it would be like if that rapist was the fucking president, to get the shambling zombie memory to come blasting out of the dirt and into the light of day.

And those of you who doubt her and how all this works are no doubt fucking lucky because it's never happened to you. Isn't that NICE for you, but don't think for one fucking moment that you're qualified to speak on the subject.

Oh, and my first husband's father was a Russian immigrant and I thought he was a pretty good guy, still do. Loved Babushka's kulich and piroshki, thought the whole family were nice people. I like my across the street neighbors too, also Russians who don't speak a word of English beyond "hi" and "thank you." Since I have such favorable views of these Russian people it obviously must be concluded that I've never been molested or sexually assaulted because having warm feelings toward Russia and/or Russians simply cancels out any and all sexual traumas, is that how it works? Shame on the lot of you.
  #154  
Old 03-28-2020, 05:17 PM
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All Biden needs to do is say "it's absolutely false, and right now we are in the midst of a life and death crisis and we don't have time for this bullshit." Never apologize, never back down. If he does ANYTHING other than this, he's a self destructive fool. And anyone trying to hamstring Biden, from the left, on this, might as well be going around yanking out ventilator tubes.

I have resigned to the fact that Biden is our only horse here so stay the fuck out of his way.
You think he should say she's "full of shit"?
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  #155  
Old 03-28-2020, 05:17 PM
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NY primary moved to June 23 from April . So does Sanders stay until late June? I say he does . That's only 3 weeks before the Dem convention.
That’s a given. The Shitbag is already in rat fuck mode
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  #156  
Old 03-28-2020, 05:24 PM
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The ‘story’ has been out for three days and no one from a respectable news outlet has mentioned it. As if there aren’t 1000s of reporters on Twitter desperate for a different story than Corona. Even red rose Twitter has kinda backed off, just their usual trolling with creepy GIFs and memes.
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  #157  
Old 03-28-2020, 05:28 PM
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You think he should say she's "full of shit"?
Yeah I think he should. And I criticized Biden harshly for saying that to the auto worker because it's fucking stupid to go into a factory and start talking down to the employees and blabbering about gun control, which I think Biden should shut up about in the first place but since his positions are well known, he can at least NOT double down on them moving forward. It was a boneheaded move and potentially alienated a lot of voters.

You really think it's comparable to a personal allegation by an individual of a completely unprovable sexual assault? How many people do you think are going to say, "you know, Biden wasn't nice to that woman who accused him of rape...think I'll vote for Trump instead"?

Anyone who did NOT anticipate the inevitable deployment of false sexual-assault ratfuck allegations against the Democratic nominee - WHOEVER it was - a long time ago, is hopelessly naive anyway. The best position moving forward is to deny and pivot.
  #158  
Old 03-28-2020, 05:35 PM
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The ‘story’ has been out for three days and no one from a respectable news outlet has mentioned it. As if there aren’t 1000s of reporters on Twitter desperate for a different story than Corona. Even red rose Twitter has kinda backed off, just their usual trolling with creepy GIFs and memes.
Deliberate MSM and establishment suppression to protect a rapist, says the progressives and radicals.
  #159  
Old 03-28-2020, 06:00 PM
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The best position moving forward is to deny and pivot.
This presumes this isn't the first domino in an utter shitstorm (i.e. if Biden has a real history of sexual assault). Maybe it isn't, but if it is, the party needs to find out ASAP and take action to make sure we don't have a serial assaulter candidate. And that's speaking purely from a mercenary-political perspective. From a moral perspective, this any every other allegation must be taken seriously and thoroughly investigated.

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  #160  
Old 03-28-2020, 06:09 PM
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...

And, for the record, I'm now 61 years old but if, at any time, I'd discovered that Jack Hotchkiss, a man who used to live across the street from us, was running for high office or was being considered for a SCOTUS post you betcha ass I'd be out there disclosing that the fucker molested me when I was seven. Something I didn't disclose at the time because, well, I was seven and didn't really know what the fuck all THAT was about aside from the fact that I really didn't like it and didn't disclose it later because, well, what point would there be? It happened, it sucked and I went on with my life. But if I saw that shitbird on the tv grinning and gesticulating and asking people to vote for him you can wager your last thin dime that I'd be freaked out enough to get right on it letting people know they were being asked to vote for a pedophile who thought that showing his erect dick to little girls, shoving his hands down their pants and who did that in front of his four year old son--and who likely did the same things to my little sister too, who spent a lot of time at his house since she used to play with his kid....
Sure, it's understandable that when you first see someone on the National stage your memory might be jogged or you might decide to do something.

Except Joe Biden has been on the national stage since 2008, and she was working with him in the SENATE in 1993, when the alleged incident happened. Then she got out of American politics are she decided she loved Putin. The US Senate aint exactly dogcatcher.
  #161  
Old 03-28-2020, 06:41 PM
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Sure, it's understandable that when you first see someone on the National stage your memory might be jogged or you might decide to do something.

Except Joe Biden has been on the national stage since 2008, and she was working with him in the SENATE in 1993, when the alleged incident happened. Then she got out of American politics are she decided she loved Putin. The US Senate aint exactly dogcatcher.
Joe Biden was definitely on the national stage in 1987 during the Bork hearings as well as the Thomas hearings in 1991. He wasn’t some anonymous Senator Crapo
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  #162  
Old 03-28-2020, 08:08 PM
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Joe Biden was definitely on the national stage in 1987 during the Bork hearings as well as the Thomas hearings in 1991. He wasn’t some anonymous Senator Crapo
On? He was chair of the Judiciary committee, he was center stage.

CMC fnord!
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Old 03-28-2020, 08:30 PM
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Except Joe Biden has been on the national stage since 2008
Which some might argue is itself a reason for someone to be afraid of coming forward, especially when young and steeped in an environment they know won’t take them seriously.
  #164  
Old 03-28-2020, 08:45 PM
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My friend says it's a plot by the Russians
My friend says its a plot by the DNC.
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  #165  
Old 03-28-2020, 08:47 PM
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The ‘story’ has been out for three days and no one from a respectable news outlet has mentioned it. As if there aren’t 1000s of reporters on Twitter desperate for a different story than Corona. Even red rose Twitter has kinda backed off, just their usual trolling with creepy GIFs and memes.
I heard about it on the Rachel Maddow show.
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Old 03-28-2020, 08:54 PM
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The ‘story’ has been out for three days and no one from a respectable news outlet has mentioned it. As if there aren’t 1000s of reporters on Twitter desperate for a different story than Corona. Even red rose Twitter has kinda backed off, just their usual trolling with creepy GIFs and memes.
Newsweek and Vox covered it, but whether it snowballs is unclear.
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Old 03-28-2020, 10:33 PM
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Which some might argue is itself a reason for someone to be afraid of coming forward, especially when young and steeped in an environment they know won’t take them seriously.
That was given as to why they'd come forward after 17 years. And so then, it's a really bad reason to come forward now.
  #168  
Old 03-29-2020, 06:35 AM
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That was given as to why they'd come forward after 17 years. And so then, it's a really bad reason to come forward now.
There is no bad reason to come forward, at any time, for women to speak out about their experiences.
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Old 03-29-2020, 07:09 AM
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This sounds eerily like the things the Republicans were saying about the testimony of Christine Blasey Ford ...
Ms. Blasey Ford also wrote (or was accused of writing) love letters to Vladimir Putin? Cite?
  #170  
Old 03-29-2020, 07:42 AM
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This may be exactly the break the Bernie Sanders campaign is looking for!

It's kind of sickening, actually, how readily and eagerly Bernie's supporters are pushing this story online. It's just like 2016, all over again.
I despise Bernie, but i think it should be investigated.

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Something is going to happen to force Joe to drop out, and the Party will end up ad hoc nominating someone else entirely. Maybe some governor whose name ends in a vowel because he happens to inspire a lot of people at the time.
yup. There's no reason Biden's delegates, or Warren's, or Buttigiegs's, or any superdelegates have to vote for Bernie.

I think it would be politically easier for to vote for one of the other candidates who has some delegates than a completely new candidate, like Cuomo, but I'm pretty sure the rules allow them to nominate Cuomo, or anyone else.

Which I guess means that even though i think this should be investigated, I don't think Biden should drop out yet. Let him rack up some more delegates while the investigation takes place.
  #171  
Old 03-29-2020, 08:43 AM
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This is not a good development for Biden, and let's face it: he's not exactly a candidate anyone's going to really be enthusiastic about.

Maybe this would be a good time for Biden to feel unwell, bow out, and give someone else (not Bernie) a shot while there's time.

There are no good options for Dems right now.
  #172  
Old 03-29-2020, 08:53 AM
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Newsweek and Vox covered it, but whether it snowballs is unclear.
The Newsweek and Guardian bits (I didn't see it on Vox) were focused more on "Women want to speak about abuse by people in power" than the actual merits of the claims.
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Old 03-29-2020, 09:04 AM
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I'm sure some of the news sites and Dem people are going to poke around but unless a bombshell really turns up, very little oxygen should be given to this story. I am for listening to women but she's going to tell two different stories in the same election run? Ridiculous.
  #174  
Old 03-29-2020, 09:04 AM
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The Newsweek and Guardian bits (I didn't see it on Vox) were focused more on "Women want to speak about abuse by people in power" than the actual merits of the claims.
I'm on record as being skeptical, but there's nothing that leads me to believe that her claims are outright bullshit either. And given the accounts of other women, it's pretty clear he had creepy tendencies at one time in his life.
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Old 03-29-2020, 11:44 AM
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There are no good options for Dems right now.
Boy you've changed.
  #176  
Old 03-29-2020, 11:51 AM
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I'm not really concerned about changing the way society treats accused people, since society generally supports and defends powerful men accused of sexual assault. The exceptions are extremely rare.
Are you not concerned with how society treats accused rich powerful men or how society treats the accused? Because most times, the accused is not a rich powerful man.

Rule of law is pretty important in this context considering this nation's history of how it treats poor and minority men accused of sexual misconduct. Especially against white women (we generally don't seem to raise as much dust over accusations by poor or minority women).

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  #177  
Old 03-29-2020, 11:54 AM
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Ms. Blasey Ford also wrote (or was accused of writing) love letters to Vladimir Putin? Cite?
Wait, you think THAT's the part that sounds eerily similar?

Come on, you're better than this? Or am I confusing you with someone else?
  #178  
Old 03-29-2020, 12:19 PM
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Are you not concerned with how society treats accused rich powerful men or how society treats the accused? Because most times, the accused is not a rich powerful man.

Rule of law is pretty important in this context considering this nation's history of how it treats poor and minority men accused of sexual misconduct. Especially against white women (we generally don't seem to raise as much dust over accusations by poor or minority women).
This is all entirely irrelevant for this thread.
  #179  
Old 03-29-2020, 01:08 PM
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There is no bad reason to come forward, at any time, for women to speak out about their experiences.
Sure there is, when it didnt happen, and you are coming forward only to help your buddies Putin & Sanders.
  #180  
Old 03-29-2020, 01:24 PM
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I'm sure some of the news sites and Dem people are going to poke around but unless a bombshell really turns up, very little oxygen should be given to this story.
That's my guess. I'm sure it's being investigated because media joints want to break big stories. I also think it's telling that the couple stories about it so far have been just picking around the edges rather than "Biden Sexually Assaulted Woman!". Suggests, to me, that no one has found enough to it to risk coming up to bat.
  #181  
Old 03-29-2020, 01:39 PM
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Sure there is, when it didnt happen, and you are coming forward only to help your buddies Putin & Sanders.
That's not speaking out about their experiences. We don't know the details behind this accusation. Until we do, speculating with denigrating attacks on the woman speaking out is wrong and adds to that giant pile of shit that society already throws at women who speak out about their experiences.

I've said this over and over again, and you (among others) don't seem inclined to either understand or care about the effect your words can have on other woman who have experienced or may experience assault or abuse. That's a shame. Some things are more important than politics (and ignoring this accusation without a serious and thorough investigation is politically stupid anyway).
  #182  
Old 03-29-2020, 02:00 PM
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Grey, gray and muddy grey's are almost a sure thing to find in sexual assault charges. What is the requirement of proof before deciding that the person should be removed, re-allocated, or not confirmed as the judge/president/candidate/santiation worker etc?
Proof, schmoof. There is no question that Kavanaugh was nominated by the America-hating Fuckstick. That fact alone is reason why he should not have been confirmed.

Ipso facto.
  #183  
Old 03-29-2020, 04:26 PM
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NY Times , Wash Post, etc may be looking into her story and they are not yet ready to print anything until they finish looking into it.
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Old 03-29-2020, 07:36 PM
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If the media is going to do a close investigation into Biden’s alleged sexual shenanigans, could they also finally do a serious job on Trump’s?
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  #185  
Old 03-29-2020, 07:40 PM
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This is horseshit. People are dying RIGHT NOW because of Trump's bullshit. They are DYING. They are ceasing to exist. They can't watch the news; they can't do anything because they are decomposing into skeletons. Allegations of anything that happened years ago are utterly irrelevant and "the media" should stop helping get Trump elected again.
  #186  
Old 03-29-2020, 08:17 PM
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Boy you've changed.
Not really, though. asahi has long been posting some pretty intensely crazy stuff.

In this case, though, I suspect he might not be very far off the mark. Biden appears to be a cipher. Individual-ONE it a massive negative, but Biden does not look like much of anything at all. Given a choice between nothing and not-nothing, it seems like the voters prefer the latter, because, who wants nothing?
  #187  
Old 03-29-2020, 09:06 PM
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That's not speaking out about their experiences. We don't know the details behind this accusation. Until we do, speculating with denigrating attacks on the woman speaking out is wrong and adds to that giant pile of shit that society already throws at women who speak out about their experiences.
...
I notice all this is coming from a Sanders supporter.
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Old 03-29-2020, 09:36 PM
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I notice all this is coming from a Sanders supporter.
So what? Bernie is not going to be the D nominee. Unlike those other guys, Democrats generally prefer to put up comparitively decent candidates, and fully vetting them early on is a good thing.
  #189  
Old 03-29-2020, 09:43 PM
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I notice all this is coming from a Sanders supporter.
Please stop with that bullshit. This is not coming from the Sanders camp.

Having said that, what ‘andy’ and others are saying about Biden and this allegation is some of the stupidest shit I’ve ever read from anyone on the left —- and I argued with Shayna in mid November 2016, the peak of leftward stupidity.

Joe Biden, to anyone with any sense for people at all, is a fundamentally decent older guy whose boundaries for personal contact are based on social norms from decades ago. Just like Al Franken, and also just like Al he’s going to be shunned and vilified and never forgiven by idiots who can’t distinguish between warmth and abuse. Fucking stupid fucks just might help reelect Donald J. Trump, an actual and admitted abuser of women.

Americans are largely stupid. Don’t be a stupid American. Be a patriotic American and vote for the Democratic candidate for POTUS. And be even more patriotic and vote for your Democratic candidate for House representative and for Senator, and for your state elected offices.

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  #190  
Old 03-29-2020, 10:50 PM
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...Joe Biden, to anyone with any sense for people at all, is a fundamentally decent older guy whose boundaries for personal contact are based on social norms from decades ago...
This is what I believe, fwiw. I also believe those social norms were fundamentally sexist in a lot of ways, but even decent people tend to follow the social norms they grew up with.
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Old 03-29-2020, 10:55 PM
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All these mentions of vetting as if it were completely foolproof.

The alleged incident occurred decades ago with Biden and Reade the only people present. She didn't make any report at the time.

"Mr Biden. Have you ever sexually assaulted another person?"

What else was he going to say besides "Nope!"

The vetting committee can't ask every person he has ever been in contact with if Joe ever did anything to them.


Do I believe it happened? Dunno.

Did I think someone would come forward with a complaint against Handsy Joe before November? Absolutely. He's as much a poster boy for inappropriate contact with females as Trump.

Do I think all SCOTUS nominees will face allegations for the foreseeable future, no matter who POTUS is? Also absolutely. It's currently the go to page of the political playbook.
  #192  
Old 03-30-2020, 05:01 AM
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I notice all this is coming from a Sanders supporter.
Yeah. I was a Franken supporter too, and I responded to his allegations exactly the same way. I liked congressman Conyers too, and I responded to his allegations exactly the same. You might have noticed that I've responded to every allegation of sexual assault in the exact same way, regardless of the politics of the individual.

I've noticed that you have not.
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  #193  
Old 03-30-2020, 05:52 AM
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Even when it smells like a bullshit political hit job, andy responds the same way! Beat that you unwoke bastards!
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Old 03-30-2020, 06:04 AM
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Even when it smells like a bullshit political hit job, andy responds the same way! Beat that you unwoke bastards!
Ha!
  #195  
Old 03-30-2020, 08:46 AM
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Well, this is a little different.

See, a long time lapse is understandable if the accussee is now just thrust upon the national stage, like Kavanaugh or Thomas. But this happened in 1993. Since then, Biden was Veep for 8 years- why not speak out then? And then Biden ran for President in 2016- why not speak out then? And why not speak out when Biden began his 2020 campaign.

But why oh why would a Sanders supporter chose this moment, when Biden has pretty much won and sanders has no real chance- to speak out? why? It's obvious.
Yes, it is obvious that someone chose to make this political. JUST like the Kavanaugh hearing, don't you agree?
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Old 03-30-2020, 08:57 AM
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I'm not really concerned about changing the way society treats accused people, since society generally supports and defends powerful men accused of sexual assault. The exceptions are extremely rare.
As a parallel, this is exactly the reason that this won't get nearly the traction you want to provide for real change. Racism was/is treated the same way and we are still bumbling our way through that because you can't just turn the tables and call it fair. AA, is a racist way to go about providing diversity. Believing the woman but doing nothing to insulate the accused is having the same effect.

Fair is fair, across the board.
  #197  
Old 03-30-2020, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Kearsen1 View Post
As a parallel, this is exactly the reason that this won't get nearly the traction you want to provide for real change. Racism was/is treated the same way and we are still bumbling our way through that because you can't just turn the tables and call it fair. AA, is a racist way to go about providing diversity. Believing the woman but doing nothing to insulate the accused is having the same effect.

Fair is fair, across the board.
Without conflating racism, affirmative action and why progressives are always getting everything wrong, provide a way to make it safe for women to come forward with allegations of sexual assault and have the accused be "insulated" from negative impact. Demonstrate how this process can be made more fair to all parties involved.
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  #198  
Old 03-30-2020, 10:37 AM
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It's entirely likely that the Trump campaign/GOP has a bunch of women ready to come forward with such accusations against Biden, not just one woman (they understand, as well as anyone else, that accusations are much likelier to stick when made by many instead of just a few or one.) It would be very difficult for the Biden campaign to effectively dismiss all of them, even if most or all of them are false.
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Old 03-30-2020, 10:52 AM
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It's entirely likely that the Trump campaign/GOP has a bunch of women ready to come forward with such accusations against Biden, not just one woman (they understand, as well as anyone else, that accusations are much likelier to stick when made by many instead of just a few or one.) It would be very difficult for the Biden campaign to effectively dismiss all of them, even if most or all of them are false.
This has been predicted before, that #MeToo opens up the possibility of weaponizing fictional allegations -- and that it's somehow easy to manufacture credible accusations. I don't buy it. This would require finding women who have had verifiable contact with Biden in the past, a willingness to lie in a life-changing way for politics, and eliminate the traces of connections with the political fixers trying to make it happen. People willing to be this evil generally have plenty in their history that would sink their credibility. We've seen it before with the hoaxes against Mueller and others. Journalists don't just publish any old allegation they here -- they (the good ones, anyway) do their due diligence and verify its credibility on multiple angles.

We'll see, but if there are suddenly tons of credible allegations, then IMO the likeliest explanation is that Biden did some shitty things. A lot easier to believe an old white guy was grabby vice some massive and perfectly executed political conspiracy.

I take no opinion on the credibility of this particular allegation. I expect journalists (and hopefully the party) are still analyzing it.
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Old 03-30-2020, 10:54 AM
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Believing the woman but doing nothing to insulate the accused is having the same effect.
The accused are already mostly insulated -- to the nth degree if they're wealthy and influential. If you think someone's being treated unjustly, I'm all ears, but my eyes and ears tell me that accused folks like Trump, Kavanaugh, and many others, with very few exceptions, face zero consequences unless there are piles of rock-solid evidence against them, ala Weinstein and Cosby.
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