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  #51  
Old 04-13-2020, 12:17 PM
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Or, add one amateur team to each League to make it 2x16 for 2020, not from an MLB affiliated minor league, and give them the MLB minimum salary

Something like the LI Ducks and the Sonoma Stompers, the respective 2019 champions of independent leagues in the East and the West
Mariners would probably still struggle against those teams.
  #52  
Old 04-13-2020, 12:42 PM
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But if they're doing this might as well put all 30 in the Phoenix area, the short rides were a good idea. The 3 east coast teams in Florida are pretty long rides. Tampa to Roger Dean Chevy Stadium is over 3 hours with no traffic. (Jupiter, FL)
Yeah, I think packing everyone into Phoenix is the better solution. The big issue is the fact there are only 10 facilities (11 if you count Chase Field). With no attendance, you don't have to worry too much about turning the seats over for a 2nd game, but how do you warm the players up? I guess there are plenty of practice fields at each facility.
  #53  
Old 04-13-2020, 12:52 PM
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Yeah, I think packing everyone into Phoenix is the better solution. The big issue is the fact there are only 10 facilities (11 if you count Chase Field). With no attendance, you don't have to worry too much about turning the seats over for a 2nd game, but how do you warm the players up? I guess there are plenty of practice fields at each facility.
There's only 11? I thought there was more. Maybe that's why they're backing off the Arizona only idea. You really should have 15. On the other hand, could do day/night on the fields and get 15 games a day played.

So the Yanks Spring Training complex is actually 2 fields, are any of the ones in Arizona more than one field?

Last edited by What Exit?; 04-13-2020 at 12:52 PM.
  #54  
Old 04-13-2020, 12:58 PM
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I don't think day/night games in AZ in May would be a great idea. Of course, baseball in Florida once you get past spring is another hellhole. Not to mention the virus is going to be alive and well in FL for some time, no matter how they try to insulate the players, coaches, and umpires.
  #55  
Old 04-13-2020, 12:59 PM
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There's only 11? I thought there was more.
From what I can see on the Wikipedia article on the Cactus League, there are five shared stadiums in Arizona:
- White Sox and Dodgers share Camelback Ranch
- Reds and Indians share Goodyear Ballpark
- Royals and Rangers share Surprise Stadium
- Diamonbacks and Rockies share Salt River Fields at Talking Stick
- Padres and Mariners share Peoria Sports Complex
  #56  
Old 04-13-2020, 02:16 PM
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So the Yanks Spring Training complex is actually 2 fields, are any of the ones in Arizona more than one field?
Most of the facilities have multiple fields, just not with full amenities (dugout, bullpen, cameras, etc.). I'm sure several of the facilities could adapt and get a 2nd field equipped with everything, but it would definitely be 2nd rate stuff.

I went to spring training this spring, and the 4 games I went to were in 4 of the shared parks. Camelback Ranch and Salt River were both amazing facilities. Peoria and Surprise weren't very impressive. But I'll take watching a game played on a high school field if it's MLB baseball.

Last edited by Munch; 04-13-2020 at 02:19 PM.
  #57  
Old 04-13-2020, 02:22 PM
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Mariners would probably still struggle against those teams.
To hear many Mets fans talking, Jared Kelenic (sent over to the Mariners in the trade for Robinson Cano and Edwin Diaz) will probably win ROY, MVP, Cy Young, and play all nine positions in every game of a World Series sweep for Seattle while Cano collects upwards of 30M to sit on a bench, so there's that you can hang your hat on for the near future.

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  #58  
Old 04-13-2020, 06:09 PM
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I went to spring training this spring, and the 4 games I went to were in 4 of the shared parks. Camelback Ranch and Salt River were both amazing facilities. Peoria and Surprise weren't very impressive. But I'll take watching a game played on a high school field if it's MLB baseball.
Is it MLB baseball, just because it's played by MLB players? In different parks than usual, on a different schedule of games, against a different field of opponents, played with different rules (full time DH for the 15 NL teams), probably with adjusted roster sizes to account for a more packed schedule (28-30 men), games that you not only can't see live, but would be played in an empty park?

I mean yes it'd be high level professional play, I'm sure. But a lot of why I follow MLB versus watching rec league games isn't just the level of play but the camraderie of being amid other fans (or seeing them on TV and projecting myself there), and the historical context of MLB seasons of the past. In a putative "Cactus League playoff race" between the SF Giants and the Texas Rangers, there'd be mostly WTF, "this could never happen before or again" amusement.

Would I watch it? I guess I would. Would I be nearly as invested in the results? No way. More like watching and hoping the US team does well in the World Baseball Classic. I'd be rooting for a win but an elimination loss wouldn't really sting, which conversely limits how excited winning would make me, yeah?
  #59  
Old 04-14-2020, 07:47 AM
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Is it MLB baseball, just because it's played by MLB players? In different parks than usual, on a different schedule of games, against a different field of opponents, played with different rules (full time DH for the 15 NL teams), probably with adjusted roster sizes to account for a more packed schedule (28-30 men), games that you not only can't see live, but would be played in an empty park?
Yes, absolutely. It's the same game - played at the same high level. The circumstances would be weird - but they're already pretty fucking weird, aren't they? I'm the only person in my house that's been within 6 feet of another human being for the last 40 days. That's really weird - I'm pretty sure I could get used to empty stands.
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Would I be nearly as invested in the results? No way. More like watching and hoping the US team does well in the World Baseball Classic. I'd be rooting for a win but an elimination loss wouldn't really sting, which conversely limits how excited winning would make me, yeah?
I'm a Royals fan - I'm not all that concerned about this "winning" you speak of. But I am interested in developing our young players, watching a season unfold (from whatever unholy origami it's been mashed up into at the moment), and having some fun interacting with the fantasy baseball players I've made friends with over the years.
  #60  
Old 04-26-2020, 10:53 PM
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Vin Scully is out of the hospital.

He says he's sworn off the head-first slide after this.
  #61  
Old 04-27-2020, 07:33 AM
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Vin Scully is out of the hospital.

He says he's sworn off the head-first slide after this.
67 years announcing baseball, think about this for a moment. Talk about living the dream.
  #62  
Old 04-27-2020, 07:40 AM
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I remember a baseball TV announcer talking about taking vacation during the season. I thought "this job is a vacation"
  #63  
Old 04-29-2020, 11:57 PM
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So, is this finally the way out of the excessive patriotism and soldier worship from post 9/11? Spend this abbreviated season if we have one or next season worshipping the doctors/nurses but that can be dropped a lot easier than the military.

Maybe a future without God Bless America?
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  #64  
Old 04-30-2020, 07:40 AM
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Oh god - no, they'll ramp up the jingoism. Instead of God Bless America only on Sundays, it'll be back to every day.
  #65  
Old 04-30-2020, 10:26 AM
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Oh god - no, they'll ramp up the jingoism. Instead of God Bless America only on Sundays, it'll be back to every day.
Then they’ll make up all the lost revenue with me guzzling down those $10 beers to tolerate all that schmaltz.

And it would be stupid. COVID is a worldwide epidemic, not an attack on the USA like 9/11
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  #66  
Old 04-30-2020, 10:59 AM
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Some very early and entirely unsubstantiated rumors now of home stadiums with empty seats, reshuffled three divisions of ten teams each based entirely on geography, no games outside of each division to reduce both travel and exposure, with the hope of a start before July.

I wouldn't mind gettin me some baseball back, if this plan or something like it can go thru.

Apparently players are highly averse to a Phoenix league, don't want to be apart from their families for that long. Completely understandable, that.

Last edited by Hellestal; 04-30-2020 at 11:00 AM.
  #67  
Old 04-30-2020, 11:18 AM
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Some very early and entirely unsubstantiated rumors now of home stadiums with empty seats, reshuffled three divisions of ten teams each based entirely on geography, no games outside of each division to reduce both travel and exposure, with the hope of a start before July.

I wouldn't mind gettin me some baseball back, if this plan or something like it can go thru.

Apparently players are highly averse to a Phoenix league, don't want to be apart from their families for that long. Completely understandable, that.
I’ve heard the 3 ten team divisions rumors as well. We’ve known for a while that this is the direction MLB wants to move towards, eliminating the AL and NL and making the DH universal. A short season would be a good time to experiment and make it easier to make a full time adjustment.

Baseball purists will scream and they’ll be loud. We’re still debating the DH and interleague play.

I’m in favor of the changes. I’m sure MLB wants to be more like the NHL and NBA and reduce the number of games played on the opposite coast. A ten PM west coast start or a 4 pm east coast start hurts ratings for the regional sports networks and their big $$$. But, as a fan, I’d also like it. It’ll also make make up games easier, we all know that days off are far and few between as the season goes on and making up a game rained out in April might mean the Angels have to fly to Boston in August to make up a game on a previously scheduled mutual off day.
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  #68  
Old 04-30-2020, 11:22 AM
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Some very early and entirely unsubstantiated rumors now of home stadiums with empty seats, reshuffled three divisions of ten teams each based entirely on geography, no games outside of each division to reduce both travel and exposure, with the hope of a start before July.

I wouldn't mind gettin me some baseball back, if this plan or something like it can go thru.

Apparently players are highly averse to a Phoenix league, don't want to be apart from their families for that long. Completely understandable, that.
This plan is wholly dependent on every jurisdiction allowing such things, of course.

I'm fine with whatever they do if it's reasonably safe. I just want to watch some baseball.
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Old 04-30-2020, 11:43 AM
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Are/Were there any other major league sports anywhere that were divided like the old AL and NL where they only played in the WS and All Star games? Maybe some non US leagues did that. I'm sure the NL teams are happy to see the Yankees and Red Sox come to town. AL teams are happy to see Dodgers, Cubs and Cards. Name teams like those boost ticket sales. Not to mention Mets/Yanks, Giants/As , Cincy/Cleveland, etc.
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Old 04-30-2020, 12:00 PM
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On the plus side, no-fan games will make it a lot easier to tell if someone is taking video from the stands.
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Old 04-30-2020, 06:04 PM
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Are/Were there any other major league sports anywhere that were divided like the old AL and NL where they only played in the WS and All Star games? Maybe some non US leagues did that. I'm sure the NL teams are happy to see the Yankees and Red Sox come to town. AL teams are happy to see Dodgers, Cubs and Cards. Name teams like those boost ticket sales. Not to mention Mets/Yanks, Giants/As , Cincy/Cleveland, etc.
The NFL and AFL, briefly. They were like the old AL-NL for the first three years of Super Bowls.
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Old 04-30-2020, 06:10 PM
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The NFL and AFL, briefly. They were like the old AL-NL for the first three years of Super Bowls.
First four years, actually. The agreement which led to the merger of the AFL into the NFL was reached in June, 1966, though it didn't go into effect until the 1970 season. However, the agreement also featured a "World Championship Game" between the two leagues' champions in each of the four seasons which would occur before the merger took effect; that game was eventually named the Super Bowl.

Last edited by kenobi 65; 04-30-2020 at 06:13 PM.
  #73  
Old 04-30-2020, 06:56 PM
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Are/Were there any other major league sports anywhere that were divided like the old AL and NL where they only played in the WS and All Star games? Maybe some non US leagues did that. I'm sure the NL teams are happy to see the Yankees and Red Sox come to town. AL teams are happy to see Dodgers, Cubs and Cards. Name teams like those boost ticket sales. Not to mention Mets/Yanks, Giants/As , Cincy/Cleveland, etc.
From 1942 to 1948 the Negro American League and Negro National League operated as separate leagues and met in a Negro World Series.

The two Japanese leagues operate separately -- only one using the DH -- and meet in a "World Series". I don't recall the name of the series.
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Old 04-30-2020, 07:42 PM
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It's just the Japan Series.

Although they operate mostly separately they do have interleague play, so they no longer meet Bijou Drains's condition of being the way the AL and NL used to be. They've had interleague play for ten years or so, I think.
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  #75  
Old 05-03-2020, 11:34 PM
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Today I learned that Hall of Famer Andre Dawson is now a funeral director in Florida.

Here's an interview with him on the CBC, about how he wound up running a funeral home, and about how they're having to deal with COVID-19.

Last edited by kenobi 65; 05-03-2020 at 11:35 PM.
  #76  
Old 05-11-2020, 03:46 PM
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Owners gave OK to 82 game schedule starting early July with no fans. Playoffs go to 14 teams, 2 extra wildcard teams per league. Players have to agree with this idea.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/...preps-see-next
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Old 05-11-2020, 10:04 PM
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My guess is the players won't. MLB can't do this at all unless the players play for a fraction of their usual money. Not 82/162, but half again of THAT. At most. MLB offered to share the revenues with players and they have already said, literally today, that they consider that a salary cap and so will not accept it.

Of course, as a Blue Jays fan, I worry they won't be allowed to play at all. Ontario has already said "No sports or concerts in the foreseeable future." They are hard core.
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Old 05-11-2020, 10:16 PM
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Illinois is the same way with the Chicago mayor and the Illinois Governor trying to outdo each other. I guess I’ll watch but having games in Indianapolis or Columbus isn’t the same.

I assume they’d use AAA parks. I don’t even know the dimensions of the South Bend Cubs stadium.
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Old 05-12-2020, 09:29 AM
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Yeah this looks like it might get ugly. I sympathize with the players here. They already agreed to a reduction. Owners are saying they did not foresee games without fans, despite the possibility being pretty obvious at the time. As long as owners aren't sharing windfalls I don't see why players should subsidize their losses.
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Old 05-12-2020, 10:22 AM
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On the other hand it is not a good look for very rich players and even richer owners arguing over money when 80k Americans are dead and the unemployment rate is 14% and rising.
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Old 05-12-2020, 10:41 AM
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The whole half season modified playoff format idea is in jeopardy because, surprise of surprises, they are squabbling over money. The owners want a payment schedule that is designed to make the players absorb some of the financial loss along with the owners. They, of course, are insulted and outraged at any suggestion involving them making less money, circumstances be damned. As far as I'm concerned, they can take the whole summer off. I just want my beloved football back in August.
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Old 05-12-2020, 10:55 AM
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I'd happily sacrifice football forever for half a season of baseball.
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  #83  
Old 05-12-2020, 11:45 AM
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Illinois is the same way with the Chicago mayor and the Illinois Governor trying to outdo each other. I guess I’ll watch but having games in Indianapolis or Columbus isn’t the same.

I assume they’d use AAA parks.
Toronto's AAA stadium is in Buffalo (it's quite nice) but the State of New York is scarcely less hard core, and although Buffalo is just an hour from me it might as well be on Mars because the border's closed. If need be, the Jays will very likely host their home games at their brand new spring training site in Dunedin, FL. If fans can't go I guess it doesn't really matter where "home" is.

Again, though, it appears the union are going to be assholes about this. I side with the players' union 99% of the time and think the owners are almost always lying, but in this case the union's insistence they be paid in full on a prorated basis is ridiculous. MLB gets at least a third of its revenue, and likely a bit more, from tickets and concessions. Paying the players full freight makes it 100 percent likely they will lose gobs of money, and so it would make no sense for them to have a season at all.
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Old 05-12-2020, 12:14 PM
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How much do the players get paid if there is no season at all?
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Old 05-13-2020, 05:16 AM
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To be honest, MLB is on a steady course of destruction, I don't really miss their presence in my life. All of the ways in which baseball has evolved into an American cultural institution have been taken apart, and piled into bones that are now being picked clean. If you don't know what I'm talking about, find somebody your fatheer's/grandfahter's age to explain it to you.
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Old 05-13-2020, 06:23 PM
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Armando Galarraga wants MLB to recognize his perfect game. Jim Joyce agrees.

I would have no problem with this whatsoever, for several reasons. One, it was indisputably a blown call. Two, there is no harmed party, i.e. a pitcher or team getting a loss (Jason Donald would lose an infield single, but I doubt he would care.) And lastly, since Galarraga retired the next hitter, it changes no other outcomes. There were 26 outs before Joyce had his brainfart. There is a video in the linked article with comments from some baseball folk. Joe Maddon said he'd hoped when they introduced video replay, that they would also announce the first reversed call: the Galarraga play.

Some will say it's a slippery slope and that the floodgates will open with demands for rectified calls. If you're in that camp I'd like hear an example or two that could plausibly be awarded without controversy from a 'harmed' party. This wasn't just a perfect game; it was a perfect failure.
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Old 05-14-2020, 11:48 AM
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I'm not sure I care what MLB recognizes. I know he threw a perfect game, he knows it, we all know it. In fact, it was the most perfect game ever; he got 28 men out, not 27.

Quote:
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To be honest, MLB is on a steady course of destruction, I don't really miss their presence in my life. All of the ways in which baseball has evolved into an American cultural institution have been taken apart, and piled into bones that are now being picked clean. If you don't know what I'm talking about, find somebody your fatheer's/grandfahter's age to explain it to you.
My Dad didn't like baseball. Back in the day, fewer people attended MLB games than is now the case.

Of course many people do not care for baseball, but that has always been true. Many people do like baseball, and as long as that is true there will be a major leagues. It might not always be organized the way it is now, but it will exist.
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Old 05-16-2020, 10:30 PM
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Armando Galarraga wants MLB to recognize his perfect game. Jim Joyce agrees.

I would have no problem with this whatsoever, for several reasons. One, it was indisputably a blown call. Two, there is no harmed party, i.e. a pitcher or team getting a loss (Jason Donald would lose an infield single, but I doubt he would care.) And lastly, since Galarraga retired the next hitter, it changes no other outcomes. There were 26 outs before Joyce had his brainfart. There is a video in the linked article with comments from some baseball folk. Joe Maddon said he'd hoped when they introduced video replay, that they would also announce the first reversed call: the Galarraga play.



Some will say it's a slippery slope and that the floodgates will open with demands for rectified calls. If you're in that camp I'd like hear an example or two that could plausibly be awarded without controversy from a 'harmed' party. This wasn't just a perfect game; it was a perfect failure.
It could have been scored as a no-hitteer immediatly, if the official scorer had any balls. Call it "E-1", the pitcher could have retired the runner "with ordinary effort", but didn't. Also, Joyce had it fully within his power and authority to call the umps together and ask in anybody "had a better view" and then immediately reverse his call, amid nothing but appreciative cheers. It's on Joyce, who could have become the most respected man in baseball, instead of mus reviled. It speaks to the integrity of their thought process. Both these thoughts occurred me within seconds of the call on the field --- but thatt's because I think I would have been motivated by fairnesss, not my own pride..
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Old 05-17-2020, 02:55 AM
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To be honest, MLB is on a steady course of destruction, I don't really miss their presence in my life. All of the ways in which baseball has evolved into an American cultural institution have been taken apart, and piled into bones that are now being picked clean. If you don't know what I'm talking about, find somebody your fatheer's/grandfahter's age to explain it to you.
Well, hello sunshine.
My dad detests baseball, pretty much every sport. I think he only watched football to have something to talk about at work. He’d much rather be reading hard sci fi, but wanted to have something to talk about at the office.

My grandfathers were apathetic about baseball.

Yeah, we all know we won’t have thousands of people gathered in Times Square watching baseball scores being displayed on a billboard.

Even the world I grew up in, featuring endless Cubs, Braves and Mets games on the 1980s superstations is long gone. There wasn’t much else to entertain teens on long summer breaks, baseball and pro wrestling were about it unless you got really into game shows or old sitcom reruns.

So, yes, baseball won’t be the dominant sport or American conversation going forward. Even NFL football won’t be as dominant with the concussion stories. And, depending on what happens with college education, the Saturday afternoon college football ritual may slowly dissipate.

But, in many ways, it’s better. Almost every MLB game is televised now. MLB TV makes it possible to see every team so you’re not limited to your local team. If you live in Chicago and the Dodgers are having a good year, you can follow them easier, they’re not just ‘late’ in your morning paper.
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Old 05-17-2020, 02:00 PM
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Those who get MLB TV: they're running World Series games today. 1979 Game 7 is on right now with 2016 Game 7 next, 2014 Game 7 after that, and 1964 Game 7 at 11 Eastern.
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Old 05-17-2020, 02:11 PM
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Those who get MLB TV: they're running World Series games today. 1979 Game 7 is on right now with 2016 Game 7 next, 2014 Game 7 after that, and 1964 Game 7 at 11 Eastern.
On the stream or the cable channel?
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Old 05-17-2020, 02:14 PM
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Cable.
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Old 05-17-2020, 02:16 PM
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I can't remember the last time I heard Cosell announcing anything.
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Old 05-17-2020, 02:42 PM
Bijou Drains is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skywatcher View Post
I can't remember the last time I heard Cosell announcing anything.
Maybe because he's been dead for 25 years?
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Old 05-17-2020, 02:50 PM
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Why the snark? I'm just waxing nostalgic about the game I'm watching.
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Old 05-17-2020, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Skywatcher View Post
I can't remember the last time I heard Cosell announcing anything.
When Joe Frazier passed, ESPN aired some of his classic fights with Ali. So 2011 for me. I also was watching a doc on Ali within the last 2 years, so many snippets of Cosell during that.
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