Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #51  
Old 04-07-2020, 06:39 PM
Yankees 1996 Champs is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 265
I think de Blasio's heart is in the right place.

Mayor de Blasio was right when he said in 2014 after Eric Garner's killer did not get indicted by the grand jury this:

De Blasio had called the Garner case “profoundly personal for me,” saying that because of “the dangers [Dante] may face, we’ve had to literally train him . . . in how to take special care in any encounter he has with the police officers who are there to protect him.”

https://nypost.com/2014/12/04/police...r-eric-garner/

But he is not effective mayor.

Most New York City mayors think they can be president. Giuliani ran in 2008. de Blasio and Bloomberg ran for president in 2020. It failed.

Americans don't want New York City mayors as presidents.
  #52  
Old 04-07-2020, 07:51 PM
JRDelirious is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Distanced
Posts: 16,472
Quote:
Originally Posted by Velocity View Post
De Blasio almost seems to have imagined that the virus cares about things like skin color, as if the fact that minority kids needed school and lunches would make the virus compassionately shy away from infecting them.
Really??

Come on -- he suffered a calamitous failure of both nerve and imagination: the school closures would affect all public school students, though it's true it would hit harder those in the lower socioeconomic rungs which in NYC happen to be disproportionately minorities. But being somehow unable to come up with a plan to address that, he did not dare to inflict short-term distress on some of his few remaining allied communities either. Simple political cowardice when confronted by his own shortcomings, not "woke racism", IMO.

Last edited by JRDelirious; 04-07-2020 at 07:52 PM.
  #53  
Old 04-07-2020, 09:49 PM
Damuri Ajashi is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 21,649
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravenman View Post
It’s clear to me that other posters are struggling to make sense of this thread, when the OP posts links to articles about De Blasio’s poor response to this crisis and then throws a few jabs about racism in there. Others have wondered what De Blasio, the pandemic, and racism are doing in a single thread.

Note that I was not actually saying whether the OP is right or wrong on anything, so your accusation of an ad hominem is nothing more than a poisoning of the well. So there.
Just to clarify. When I say that DeBlasio is the Democratic version of Trump, it is not just his incompetence, it is also his racism.

DeBlasio subscribes to a woke SJW version of racism.

Last edited by Damuri Ajashi; 04-07-2020 at 09:50 PM.
  #54  
Old 04-07-2020, 09:51 PM
Damuri Ajashi is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 21,649
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravenman View Post
Whether you are right or wrong is aside from the point - nobody knows what the fuck you are talking about with you mashing up articles about COVID and accusations of people being “woke.” I was trying to explain that this thread is more of an airing of grievances than those things actually having a coherent link between the two.



You’re going to have to dig up some quotes of De Blasio saying neo-Confederates are good people and so on for me to take that seriously. Trump is among the most prominent racists in the country. Posting links to COVID response doesn’t help.
He is not the exact same type of racist as Trump, he subscribes to a woke SJW version of racism.
  #55  
Old 04-07-2020, 09:54 PM
ITR champion is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Indiana
Posts: 10,480
Quote:
Originally Posted by iiandyiiii View Post
From what I've read, de Blasio's handling has been pretty bad, but this looks like just bad management -- nothing to do with being "woke" or whatever.
New York City's health officials certainly have been focused on being woke of late. First there was Mary T. Bassett, commissioner of the Dept. of Health and Mental Hygiene from 2014 to 2018, notable for giving a TED talk on "Why Your Doctor Should Care About Social Justice" and other things of that sort. She was followed by Oxiris Barbot, who puts stuff like this in her bio:
As an innovative public health leader, Dr. Barbot has championed addressing health inequities in major cities along the east coast. Most recently, she served as the First Deputy Commissioner of the New York City Department of Health and Mental Hygiene. In this role, she served at the helm of the agency’s efforts to eradicate health inequities across New York City. Such efforts include but are not limited to revamping Take Care New York 2020 (#TCNY2020), the City’s data-driven blueprint for achieving health equity, and spearheading the creation of the Center for Health Equity which operationalizes the Department’s commitment to racial justice,
In February she encouraged people to get out and party. In March she was saying things like "There’s no indication that being in a car, being in the subways with someone who’s potentially sick is a risk factor."

Bill de Blasio has given NYC a government that's totally focused on social justice and fighting racism everywhere regardless of whether or not it exists, and now they have a health department leader who knows more about fighting inequality than about coronavirus.
  #56  
Old 04-07-2020, 09:57 PM
Damuri Ajashi is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 21,649
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johanna View Post
[not in citation given]
He is not a ku klux klan racist. He is a woke sjw racist.

He espouses this narrative that the reason that blacks and hispanics cannot succeed academically is the white supremacy that permeates this society. Then even poorer asian kids (asians are the poorest demographic in NYC) come along and turn him into a liar by doing well academically.

https://www.city-journal.org/admissi...alized-schools
  #57  
Old 04-08-2020, 04:50 AM
iiandyiiii's Avatar
iiandyiiii is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 37,873
Quote:
Originally Posted by ITR champion View Post
New York City's health officials certainly have been focused on being woke of late. First there was Mary T. Bassett, commissioner of the Dept. of Health and Mental Hygiene from 2014 to 2018, notable for giving a TED talk on "Why Your Doctor Should Care About Social Justice" and other things of that sort. She was followed by Oxiris Barbot, who puts stuff like this in her bio:


As an innovative public health leader, Dr. Barbot has championed addressing health inequities in major cities along the east coast. Most recently, she served as the First Deputy Commissioner of the New York City Department of Health and Mental Hygiene. In this role, she served at the helm of the agency’s efforts to eradicate health inequities across New York City. Such efforts include but are not limited to revamping Take Care New York 2020 (#TCNY2020), the City’s data-driven blueprint for achieving health equity, and spearheading the creation of the Center for Health Equity which operationalizes the Department’s commitment to racial justice,


In February she encouraged people to get out and party. In March she was saying things like "There’s no indication that being in a car, being in the subways with someone who’s potentially sick is a risk factor."



Bill de Blasio has given NYC a government that's totally focused on social justice and fighting racism everywhere regardless of whether or not it exists, and now they have a health department leader who knows more about fighting inequality than about coronavirus.
Social justice views have nothing to do with efforts to fight a pandemic. I think de Blasio sucks for his bad management decisions. Maybe that includes incompetent hiring. But none of that has anything to do with views about social justice.
__________________
My new novel Spindown
  #58  
Old 04-08-2020, 09:17 AM
JRDelirious is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Distanced
Posts: 16,472
Yeah, I mean, it's not as if you could not advocate social justice AND run the damn city properly while working on that.

Unless that is what's being claimed? That concern for Social Justice is fundamentally incompatible with good governance?


Someone can both be competent and effective and aspire to building social justice. Of course that requires being able to exercise good judgement on what hills you want to die on and be willing to take the heat from your allies when the right decision is not the nice decision. That Blas apparently did not assemble that sort of a team is a very negative mark on his ability to govern.

Last edited by JRDelirious; 04-08-2020 at 09:18 AM.
  #59  
Old 04-08-2020, 01:56 PM
Damuri Ajashi is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 21,649
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRDelirious View Post
Yeah, I mean, it's not as if you could not advocate social justice AND run the damn city properly while working on that.

Unless that is what's being claimed? That concern for Social Justice is fundamentally incompatible with good governance?
No of course not. Some people can walk and chew gum at the same time. This guy has more trouble doing it than most. If you're constantly looking at every issue the social justice angle, you might end up looking at a public health issue from a social justice angle and fucking it up.

Quote:
Someone can both be competent and effective and aspire to building social justice. Of course that requires being able to exercise good judgement on what hills you want to die on and be willing to take the heat from your allies when the right decision is not the nice decision. That Blas apparently did not assemble that sort of a team is a very negative mark on his ability to govern.
You think his public health team is bad? You should get a load of his education team.
  #60  
Old 04-08-2020, 09:44 PM
RioRico is offline
Suspended
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: beyond cell service
Posts: 3,193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damuri Ajashi View Post
He is not a ku klux klan racist. He is a woke sjw racist.
Cite?
  #61  
Old 04-09-2020, 06:27 AM
Ruken is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: DC
Posts: 8,477
Quote:
Originally Posted by RioRico View Post
Cite?
https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb...d.php?t=881543
Here's where he defines the term. Also, he cites "tons of evidence" (actual quote) there.

Last edited by Ruken; 04-09-2020 at 06:27 AM.
  #62  
Old 04-09-2020, 07:51 AM
mhendo is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 25,749
The OP reminds me of one of those Social Justice Warriors who can't help but look at everything in life through the lens of their own particular obsession.

For him, the obsession is Social Justice Warriors, and it pretty clearly colors his "analysis" of whatever he happens to be talking about.

This thread is just an anti-SJW rant disguised as a criticism of Bill De Blasio. It's a shame that he did it so badly, because De Blasio deserves plenty of criticism, but Damuri's single-minded hammering managed to distract the thread from the real issues. Luckily, some other people managed to get it on track and actually discuss De Blasio's policies and failings.
  #63  
Old 04-09-2020, 04:40 PM
Damuri Ajashi is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 21,649
Quote:
Originally Posted by RioRico View Post
Cite?
DeBlasio has the ability to create new magnet schools but decided he wants to change the admissions criteria of the top public school in NYC (with 75% asian enrollment) to reduce the asian population and improve the black and hispanic population. And his administration minimizes the efforts of poor asian immigrant kids and the sacrifices their families make in doing so.

https://www.politico.com/states/new-...e-forum-965825

https://www.theatlantic.com/educatio...iction/585460/

https://www.city-journal.org/admissi...alized-schools

This is why I think DeBlasio is an SJW woke racist.
  #64  
Old 04-09-2020, 04:46 PM
Damuri Ajashi is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 21,649
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhendo View Post
The OP reminds me of one of those Social Justice Warriors who can't help but look at everything in life through the lens of their own particular obsession.
I am particular sensitive to racism and I undersand that othrs are not but I think they should be.

Quote:
For him, the obsession is Social Justice Warriors, and it pretty clearly colors his "analysis" of whatever he happens to be talking about.
It might have something to do with how I define SJWs. In my opinion SJWs are mostly middle class privileged white folks who have so much white guilt that they become stupid.

Quote:
This thread is just an anti-SJW rant disguised as a criticism of Bill De Blasio. It's a shame that he did it so badly, because De Blasio deserves plenty of criticism, but Damuri's single-minded hammering managed to distract the thread from the real issues. Luckily, some other people managed to get it on track and actually discuss De Blasio's policies and failings.
This thread was an anti-BdB rant. See the OP. I mentioned the racism and i wish I hadn't because those two words "woke racist" seems to have hit a nerve and eclipsed everything else in the OP.
  #65  
Old 04-09-2020, 04:47 PM
mhendo is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 25,749
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damuri Ajashi View Post
...those two words "woke racist" seems to have hit a nerve...
Yeah, who could have predicted that?
  #66  
Old 04-09-2020, 04:56 PM
Ravenman is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 28,143
Remember when this thread was allegedly about de Blasio and COVID-19?

Last edited by Ravenman; 04-09-2020 at 04:57 PM.
  #67  
Old 04-09-2020, 05:13 PM
Damuri Ajashi is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 21,649
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruken View Post
https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb...d.php?t=881543
Here's where he defines the term. Also, he cites "tons of evidence" (actual quote) there.
Wait isn't that the thread where you claimed to have "busted me" on my cite of Espenshade? Somehow you equated Espenshade saying that statistical evidence is not a smoking gun with an admissions that he doesn't believe his statistical evidence.

Do you honestly think that there isn't discrimination against asians in admissions at competitive colleges?

If we had this much evidence for discrimination against blacks, you would be marching in the streets.
  #68  
Old 04-09-2020, 05:15 PM
Damuri Ajashi is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 21,649
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhendo View Post
Yeah, who could have predicted that?
Yes and it was a mistake. I wish I hadn't done it. not because I don't think it's true but because people can't seem to focus on anything else.
  #69  
Old 04-09-2020, 05:52 PM
Chingon is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: the hypersphere
Posts: 1,088
Lol, u knew what you were doing.
  #70  
Old 04-10-2020, 05:44 AM
Ruken is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: DC
Posts: 8,477
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damuri Ajashi View Post
Wait isn't that the thread where you claimed to have "busted me" on my cite of Espenshade? Somehow you equated Espenshade saying that statistical evidence is not a smoking gun with an admissions that he doesn't believe his statistical evidence.

Do you honestly think that there isn't discrimination against asians in admissions at competitive colleges?

If we had this much evidence for discrimination against blacks, you would be marching in the streets.
By all means, advertise the thread.
  #71  
Old 04-10-2020, 07:45 AM
Ruken is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: DC
Posts: 8,477
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damuri Ajashi View Post
Do you honestly think that there isn't discrimination against asians in admissions at competitive colleges?
If you want to make an assertion about this, then it's your job to back it up with evidence that stands against scrutiny. Nobody is going to make the argument for you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damuri Ajashi View Post
If we had this much evidence for discrimination against blacks, you would be marching in the streets.
This is what we call an appeal to hypocrisy. It's not a formal fallacy, in that it's a reasoning error rather than flawed deductive argument.

Last edited by Ruken; 04-10-2020 at 07:45 AM.
  #72  
Old 04-10-2020, 05:25 PM
Damuri Ajashi is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 21,649
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chingon View Post
Lol, u knew what you were doing.
Are you saying I'm lying?
  #73  
Old 04-10-2020, 05:39 PM
Damuri Ajashi is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 21,649
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruken View Post
If you want to make an assertion about this, then it's your job to back it up with evidence that stands against scrutiny. Nobody is going to make the argument for you.
The arguments were made. They rely on statistical evidence because so far only one admissions dean has come out and admitted that this discrimination exists. If we had this much statistical evidence of discrimination against women, gays or any other minority, you would be marching in the streets.

What more proof do you want?

Quote:
This is what we call an appeal to hypocrisy. It's not a formal fallacy, in that it's a reasoning error rather than flawed deductive argument.
Doesn't "appeal to hypocrisy"="tu quoque"

tu quoque is a fairly common fallacy

This is not tu quoque.

I am saying that I have already met the standard that you would set for racism against any other group, I am not defending my actions by pointing at you and saying "well you do it too"
  #74  
Old 04-10-2020, 06:17 PM
Chingon is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: the hypersphere
Posts: 1,088
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damuri Ajashi View Post
Are you saying I'm lying?
I'm saying you're smart enough to craft your posts in a manner that reflects what you want to portray.

It's a compliment really.
  #75  
Old 04-10-2020, 07:59 PM
JRDelirious is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Distanced
Posts: 16,472
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damuri Ajashi View Post
Doesn't "appeal to hypocrisy"="tu quoque"
Not really. Not that I am saying you incurred in this either, but it has been seen in these boards more as a strategy to disarm the other side by accusing them of being hypocrites.


And may I say, from my own side, I have often myself questioned people and organizations who get hung up on being Wokey McWokeface 24/7 about Every Damn Thing.

But the particular phrase you used, yes, it was unfortunate; came across grating and distracting. Not the least because coming from another minority community there are those among us that are themselves just as guilty of that, and sometimes more annoyingly as they then will impugn our group membership if we don't get with the program. (And FWIW, you used earlier another two word phrase, that also took me out of the flow for a moment, as in, "wait, he's not saying it ironically"?)

Last edited by JRDelirious; 04-10-2020 at 08:02 PM.
  #76  
Old 04-10-2020, 08:23 PM
Acsenray is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 37,558
nm
__________________
*I'm experimenting with E, em, and es and emself as pronouns that do not indicate any specific gender nor exclude any specific gender.

Last edited by Acsenray; 04-10-2020 at 08:23 PM.
  #77  
Old 04-10-2020, 11:39 PM
Damuri Ajashi is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 21,649
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruken View Post
If you want to make an assertion about this, then it's your job to back it up with evidence that stands against scrutiny. Nobody is going to make the argument for you.

This is what we call an appeal to hypocrisy. It's not a formal fallacy, in that it's a reasoning error rather than flawed deductive argument.
So based on the statistical evidence and Enright else you know, do you think there is discrimination against Asian college applicants at computing colleges?

You keep avoiding that question?
  #78  
Old 04-10-2020, 11:42 PM
Damuri Ajashi is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 21,649
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRDelirious View Post
Not really. Not that I am saying you incurred in this either, but it has been seen in these boards more as a strategy to disarm the other side by accusing them of being hypocrites.
I am asking him to apply the same standards he would use to identify discrimination against other groups to identify discrimination against asians.

Quote:
And may I say, from my own side, I have often myself questioned people and organizations who get hung up on being Wokey McWokeface 24/7 about Every Damn Thing.

But the particular phrase you used, yes, it was unfortunate; came across grating and distracting. Not the least because coming from another minority community there are those among us that are themselves just as guilty of that, and sometimes more annoyingly as they then will impugn our group membership if we don't get with the program. (And FWIW, you used earlier another two word phrase, that also took me out of the flow for a moment, as in, "wait, he's not saying it ironically"?)
Which two words phrase?

I m more annoyed when white people impugn our group membership than when other minorities do it.

Last edited by Damuri Ajashi; 04-10-2020 at 11:44 PM.
  #79  
Old 04-11-2020, 11:13 AM
Ruken is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: DC
Posts: 8,477
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damuri Ajashi View Post
So based on the statistical evidence and Enright else you know, do you think there is discrimination against Asian college applicants at computing colleges?

You keep avoiding that question?
As I taught to the freshmen who didn't pick this up in high school, a perfectly acceptable result of a study, if not a terribly sexy one, is, to quote our friend Espenshade, "we don’t have sufficient empirical evidence to support that claim." This does not obligate making a different claim. It also does not mean that the original hypothesis isn't correct.
  #80  
Old 04-12-2020, 12:08 AM
Damuri Ajashi is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 21,649
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruken View Post
As I taught to the freshmen who didn't pick this up in high school, a perfectly acceptable result of a study, if not a terribly sexy one, is, to quote our friend Espenshade, "we don’t have sufficient empirical evidence to support that claim." This does not obligate making a different claim. It also does not mean that the original hypothesis isn't correct.
Here is the full quote in cotext:
Quote:
In an interview Friday, Espenshade said his research found that, controlling other factors, Asian-American applicants seemed to face a disadvantage in college admissions. Still, Espenshade said researchers lack access to other application materials, including essays and letters of recommendation, making it difficult to draw further conclusions.

“I stop short of saying that Asian-American students are being discriminated against in the college application process because we don't have sufficient empirical evidence to support that claim,” Espenshade said.
So yes, statistics frequently cannot prove things in much the same way that statistics cannot prove that smoking causes cancer.

So let me ask you for the third time. Do you think that competitive colleges discriminate against asians or not?

Would you require any more evidence than what we already have before you believed that discrimination existed against any other race?
  #81  
Old 04-12-2020, 07:04 AM
Ruken is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: DC
Posts: 8,477
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damuri Ajashi View Post
So yes, statistics frequently cannot prove things in much the same way that statistics cannot prove that smoking causes cancer.
And yet, social scientist collect data all the damn time that do support various claims. "Prove" is a tricky word anyway; we're talking about "support".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damuri Ajashi View Post
So let me ask you for the third time. Do you think that competitive colleges discriminate against asians or not?
We don't have sufficient empirical evidence to support that claim

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damuri Ajashi View Post
Would you require any more evidence than what we already have before you believed that discrimination existed against any other race?
If a poster makes a claim here that a different group is being discriminated against, and presents a study whose author flat out states that the study does not support that claim, I will point out that poster's science fail. Will that poster learn something? Or buckle down, falsely claim to have provided "tons of cites", JAQ, imply others are behaving hypocritically, and generally entertain members of the board who actually are scientists? That's not up to me.
  #82  
Old 04-12-2020, 07:33 AM
Ravenman is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 28,143
If Bill de Blasio has been using his mayoral powers to keep Asian-American kids out of good colleges, count me as both opposed and confused.
  #83  
Old 04-13-2020, 12:19 PM
Damuri Ajashi is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 21,649
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruken View Post
And yet, social scientist collect data all the damn time that do support various claims. "Prove" is a tricky word anyway; we're talking about "support".

We don't have sufficient empirical evidence to support that claim
Quote:
If a poster makes a claim here that a different group is being discriminated against, and presents a study whose author flat out states that the study does not support that claim, I will point out that poster's science fail. Will that poster learn something? Or buckle down, falsely claim to have provided "tons of cites", JAQ, imply others are behaving hypocritically, and generally entertain members of the board who actually are scientists? That's not up to me.
"Espenshade said his research found that, controlling other factors, Asian-American applicants seemed to face a disadvantage in college admissions"

What he can't support is the notion that it's racism that is causing this disadvantage. When we see these inexplicable disparities with ANY OTHER RACE, we don't really hesitate to call it racism. But with Asians, it's just inexplicable.

People like you are why racism can continue to exist.
  #84  
Old 04-13-2020, 12:20 PM
Damuri Ajashi is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 21,649
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravenman View Post
If Bill de Blasio has been using his mayoral powers to keep Asian-American kids out of good colleges, count me as both opposed and confused.
He has been using his mayoral power to try and keep asians out of the top NYC magnet high schools.
  #85  
Old 04-13-2020, 01:36 PM
Jonathan Chance is online now
Domo Arigato Mister Moderato
Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: On the run with Kilroy
Posts: 23,682

The Moderator Speaks


Quote:
Originally Posted by Damuri Ajashi View Post
"Espenshade said his research found that, controlling other factors, Asian-American applicants seemed to face a disadvantage in college admissions"

What he can't support is the notion that it's racism that is causing this disadvantage. When we see these inexplicable disparities with ANY OTHER RACE, we don't really hesitate to call it racism. But with Asians, it's just inexplicable.

People like you are why racism can continue to exist.
That’ll earn you a warning, Damuri Ajashi. Do not insult other posters.
  #86  
Old 04-13-2020, 01:42 PM
Chingon is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: the hypersphere
Posts: 1,088
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damuri Ajashi View Post
"Espenshade said his research found that, controlling other factors, Asian-American applicants seemed to face a disadvantage in college admissions"



What he can't support is the notion that it's racism that is causing this disadvantage. When we see these inexplicable disparities with ANY OTHER RACE, we don't really hesitate to call it racism. But with Asians, it's just inexplicable.



People like you are why racism can continue to exist.
But you claim this disparity (when it comes to black people) is NOT due to racism but the fact black culture produces toxic students.

Last edited by Chingon; 04-13-2020 at 01:43 PM.
  #87  
Old 04-13-2020, 02:04 PM
Ruken is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: DC
Posts: 8,477
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damuri Ajashi View Post
"Espenshade said his research found that, controlling other factors, Asian-American applicants seemed to face a disadvantage in college admissions"

What he can't support is the notion that it's racism that is causing this disadvantage.
He's a good scientist who understands the difference between:
these results are consistent with X causing Y
and
these results support the claim that X causes Y
One gets the study published, the other, without different results, gets curbstomped by the reviewers if they're doing their job.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Damuri Ajashi View Post
When we see these inexplicable disparities with ANY OTHER RACE, we don't really hesitate to call it racism. But with Asians, it's just inexplicable.
I note the change in pronouns.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damuri Ajashi View Post
People like you are why racism can continue to exist.
I believe that using poor science, or using good science poorly, to fight racism helps the racists. See the "stop helping" thread. Better arguments get the job done better.

Last edited by Ruken; 04-13-2020 at 02:06 PM.
  #88  
Old 04-13-2020, 04:16 PM
Damuri Ajashi is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 21,649
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chingon View Post
But you claim this disparity (when it comes to black people) is NOT due to racism but the fact black culture produces toxic students.
The differences in black admission rates is clearly indicated by scores, grades and other objective criteria. I'm saying the reason they test so poorly is in part because of their culture. What do YOU think is the reason for their poor scores, grades, etc?
  #89  
Old 04-13-2020, 09:23 PM
Damuri Ajashi is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 21,649
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Chance View Post
That’ll earn you a warning, Damuri Ajashi. Do not insult other posters.
I think you may want to read my post more carefully. I can explain it to you if you want.
  #90  
Old 04-13-2020, 09:40 PM
Damuri Ajashi is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 21,649
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chingon View Post
But you claim this disparity (when it comes to black people) is NOT due to racism but the fact black culture produces toxic students.
Where do i say that disparities in test results for blacks are due to toxic culture?

I have blamed other social ills like high crimes rates, teen pregnancy, children born out of wedlock on a toxic culture (and switched over to " unhealthy, counterproductive and self destructive elements of black culture" because the word toxic was triggering some posters).
  #91  
Old 04-13-2020, 10:07 PM
Damuri Ajashi is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 21,649
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruken View Post
He's a good scientist who understands the difference between:
these results are consistent with X causing Y
and
these results support the claim that X causes Y
One gets the study published, the other, without different results, gets curbstomped by the reviewers if they're doing their job.
And my question is do you require this level of evidence before you identify discrimination against other groups? Because i don't think you do.

Quote:
I note the change in pronouns.
Not sure why that's relevant but do you believe that asians are being discriminated against in college admissions? Or do you always require sufficient empirical evidence to support a claim before you believe it?

Quote:
I believe that using poor science, or using good science poorly, to fight racism helps the racists. See the "stop helping" thread. Better arguments get the job done better.
Wait, so you think that pointing to a study showing the sort of disparity we see in college admissions is HURTING the fight against racism because it such a weak argument that the racists will go "OMFG these guys will latch onto anything to claim racism"

Are you kidding?

When you create this much room for racists to be racist and allow them to continue being racist as long as they don't provide incontrovertible proof of their racism, then you are helping the racists a lot more than relying on statistical data.

AFAICT, most of this board (myself included) seem to be happy to rely on statistical data to conclude that racism is why black men are more frequently the victims of police brutality. Do you think there is sufficient empirical data to "support the claim" that racism is the cause of elevated incidents of police brutality against black men?

It's when statistics are used poorly that you undermine your own argument. For example, the improper use of statistics to try and prove that the incidence of police shooting black men has something to do with racism.

When you seem to condone racism against asians it undermines the argument against racism. Why are you defending racism against asians?
  #92  
Old 04-14-2020, 10:06 AM
Ruken is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: DC
Posts: 8,477
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damuri Ajashi View Post
And my question is
Nobody is obligated to or interested in playing the JAQ game. You are free to collect your own evidence and make your own arguments. At this point you have stated or implied that my behavior and others' is hypocritical, or, more generously, inconsistent, multiple times. Without the merest drop of evidence. If you're sitting on "tons of evidence" about what I do or do not require elsewhere, let's see it. But we all know you don't have any. Because you've had multiple opportunities to back up your ad hominem and have thus far utterly and comically failed to do so.

And even if you were able to pull it off, it doesn't change what Espenshade says about his own work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damuri Ajashi View Post
Why are you defending racism against asians?
LOL
  #93  
Old 04-14-2020, 03:25 PM
Damuri Ajashi is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 21,649
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruken View Post
Nobody is obligated to or interested in playing the JAQ game. You are free to collect your own evidence and make your own arguments. At this point you have stated or implied that my behavior and others' is hypocritical, or, more generously, inconsistent, multiple times. Without the merest drop of evidence.
I am more than implying you are hypocritical. I am saying that the standards you apply to find discrimination against asians is significantly higher than the standard you apply to find discrimination against other groups.

What do you call a person who thinks that a low bar of evidence is sufficient to find racism against one group but requires a higher bar of evidence to establish racism against another group.

Quote:
If you're sitting on "tons of evidence" about what I do or do not require elsewhere, let's see it. But we all know you don't have any. Because you've had multiple opportunities to back up your ad hominem and have thus far utterly and comically failed to do so.
I have pointed to several studies that show disparities between scores and acceptance rates.

I have cited a former ivy league associate dean of admissions who flat out stated at there is a bias against asians in the admissions process.

I have pointed to a history of discrimination by ivy leagues against model minorities.

Short of a secret email between all these schools talking about how to keep out the chinks, what more evidence do you think it would take to convince you that there is discrimination against asians in college admissions?

Quote:
And even if you were able to pull it off, it doesn't change what Espenshade says about his own work.

LOL
You can't take one sentence out of context and pretend it summarizes the whole of his views. It's intellectually dishonest to pretend to only see the words that look like they support your position.

The article i think you are quoting from is https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2...rd-admissions/

In an interview Friday, Espenshade said his research found that, controlling other factors, Asian-American applicants seemed to face a disadvantage in college admissions. Still, Espenshade said researchers lack access to other application materials, including essays and letters of recommendation, making it difficult to draw further conclusions.

“I stop short of saying that Asian-American students are being discriminated against in the college application process because we don't have sufficient empirical evidence to support that claim,” Espenshade said

The way i read that is that he doesn't have sufficient empirical evidence and its because he is being denied the data he needs to rule out other possibilities.

It is clear from all the data that he does have access to that there is a racial disparity with no apparent explanation. It is heavily suggested that bias and discrimination is the culprit

Last edited by Damuri Ajashi; 04-14-2020 at 03:27 PM.
  #94  
Old 04-14-2020, 04:43 PM
Ruken is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: DC
Posts: 8,477
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damuri Ajashi View Post
I am more than implying you are hypocritical. I am saying that the standards you apply to find discrimination against asians is significantly higher than the standard you apply to find discrimination against other groups.
You have no evidence on which to base this conclusion. But if you think you can prove it, give it a go.

SPOILER:
You can't.
  #95  
Old 04-14-2020, 05:21 PM
Jonathan Chance is online now
Domo Arigato Mister Moderato
Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: On the run with Kilroy
Posts: 23,682
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damuri Ajashi View Post
I am more than implying you are hypocritical. I am saying that the standards you apply to find discrimination against asians is significantly higher than the standard you apply to find discrimination against other groups.

What do you call a person who thinks that a low bar of evidence is sufficient to find racism against one group but requires a higher bar of evidence to establish racism against another group
Damuri Ajashi, just yesterday I told you via PM this was unacceptable. This is a second warning.

You are also banned from PE and GD for one month. You may return on 5/14/20. Violate those at risk of your posting privileges being revoked.
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:29 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@straightdope.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Copyright © 2019 STM Reader, LLC.

 
Copyright © 2017