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  #51  
Old 04-08-2020, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by John_Stamos'_Left_Ear View Post
Excuse me but what did I say that was inflammatory? Please explain.
I'm genuinely shocked that you're asking what's inflammatory about "all the Bernie Bros who hung on every word as if they were ordained by a loving God who sends birds to perch on his podiums". Characterizing political opponents as credulous cultists and idol-worshippers is a time-honored method of holding them in contempt (Republicans used it to great effect during Obama's campaign and presidency). It destroys communication and undermines your own ability to understand the perspective of others.
  #52  
Old 04-08-2020, 11:51 AM
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Thats because Bernie would've fought income inequality, now they're celebrating that plutocracy will not be challenged. Thats not a good thing.
A strong market means a strong economy means companies are stronger, and that means there are jobs for many more people. Which is a good thing.

And, I do get your point.
  #53  
Old 04-08-2020, 11:54 AM
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This is the first time I can vote Green and will consider that. And spare me "you are only helping Trump" by voting green.
You're helping Trump. And I'm highly supportive of the Green agenda. Voting Green in a competitive election is one of the worst things someone who supports the environment can do aside from voting Republican.
  #54  
Old 04-08-2020, 11:58 AM
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Those projections include Bernie. They’re not without him. Let’s see the revised projections.
No they don't. They are general election polls between Trump and Biden.
  #55  
Old 04-08-2020, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Left Hand of Dorkness View Post
I'm genuinely shocked that you're asking what's inflammatory about "all the Bernie Bros who hung on every word as if they were ordained by a loving God who sends birds to perch on his podiums". Characterizing political opponents as credulous cultists and idol-worshippers is a time-honored method of holding them in contempt (Republicans used it to great effect during Obama's campaign and presidency). It destroys communication and undermines your own ability to understand the perspective of others.
Wow, saying "Bernie supporters listen to everything else he says, hopefully they'll listen to this too" is inflammatory? You probably need to relax because that is fucking mild.

Also, if any Bernie supporter decides that they won't vote for Biden because their feelings are hurt, I doubt there's anything I can do to change their mind either way.

Now, Bernie? He might be able to change their mind (which was my only point above).
  #56  
Old 04-08-2020, 12:03 PM
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Wow, saying "Bernie supporters listen to everything else he says, hopefully they'll listen to this too" is inflammatory?
What an odd thing to do, to put your own words in quotation marks, only it's not what you actually wrote. Had you written that, that would've meant you'd written something different.

I'm not under the impression that you're fairly evaluating your own words, though, so I won't throw good effort after bad.

Last edited by Left Hand of Dorkness; 04-08-2020 at 12:03 PM.
  #57  
Old 04-08-2020, 12:07 PM
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What an odd thing to do, to put your own words in quotation marks, only it's not what you actually wrote. Had you written that, that would've meant you'd written something different.

I'm not under the impression that you're fairly evaluating your own words, though, so I won't throw good effort after bad.
It's cool that you didn't actually comment on the substance of what I said. Makes me realize that you're wrong.

Toodles.
  #58  
Old 04-08-2020, 12:16 PM
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I'm no Bernie bro but it is quite full of crap paraphrasing what you actually said into something less obnoxious and then pretending what you actually said is therefore less obnoxious.

Last edited by CarnalK; 04-08-2020 at 12:17 PM.
  #59  
Old 04-08-2020, 12:19 PM
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A strong market means a strong economy means companies are stronger
Or it could just mean the 0.1%ers have way too much money and nowhere better to stash it, so they drive up the price of the shares.
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, and that means there are jobs for many more people. Which is a good thing.
And are there in fact more jobs for more people right now? The Dow going up hundreds of points today means nothing from an economic perspective. All it means is Bernie pulling out of the race put a bunch of plutocrats in a buying mood, is all.
  #60  
Old 04-08-2020, 12:28 PM
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Excuse me but what did I say that was inflammatory? Please explain.
Oh please. Seriously??


No point in my saying any more; if what LHoD said didn't get through, I'm not gonna bash my head on a brick wall either.
  #61  
Old 04-08-2020, 12:31 PM
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I'm no Bernie bro but it is quite full of crap paraphrasing what you actually said into something less obnoxious and then pretending what you actually said is therefore less obnoxious.
I don't think it was obnoxious. Lord knows, anyone who does stay away from Twitter, like, forever.
  #62  
Old 04-08-2020, 12:38 PM
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Well, a heads up: it was obnoxious. Doesn't matter that you are used to it.

But you know, toodles and all that.
  #63  
Old 04-08-2020, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Bijou Drains View Post
So much for not telling me I'm helping Trump.

BTW I was never for Sanders, I was for Yang.

I guess there is no point in me reading anymore of this thread, have fun with it.
You're helping Trump. It's your vote, and you're absolutely allowed to do what you want with it. But, you're using it to help Trump, so you don't get to dictate how those of us who would rather Trump not win respond to that fact.
  #64  
Old 04-08-2020, 12:49 PM
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Is anyone surprised I’m ecstatic and gloating? Both Corbyn and Bernie gone in the same week, two of the most vile shitstains in politics since 2015 are finally gone.

Message delivered: we don’t want your fucking revolution!!!
Congratulations, you've won. I am a Bernie Bro, and I still intend to vote for Bernie in the Pennsylvania primary in June if he's still on the ballot as a symbolic protest vote, but in November I will bend the knee toward Joe Biden. With gritted teeth, I will reluctantly vote for the neoliberal centrist who won't change a goddamn thing, because he's the lesser of two evils. Bask in your victory. You've earned it.

Last edited by Blalron; 04-08-2020 at 12:50 PM.
  #65  
Old 04-08-2020, 12:56 PM
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Is anyone surprised I’m ecstatic and gloating? Both Corbyn and Bernie gone in the same week, two of the most vile shitstains in politics since 2015 are finally gone.

Message delivered: we don’t want your fucking revolution!!!
Yeah, get rid of Trump, but otherwise, keep things pretty much as they are. We don't need any serious change in this country, amirite?

No wonder you were such a Buttigieg fanboy: a nice smiling face on the Plutocracy Protection Plan.
  #66  
Old 04-08-2020, 12:59 PM
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Congratulations, you've won. I am a Bernie Bro, and I still intend to vote for Bernie in the Pennsylvania primary in June if he's still on the ballot as a symbolic protest vote, but in November I will bend the knee toward Joe Biden. With gritted teeth, I will reluctantly vote for the neoliberal centrist who won't change a goddamn thing, because he's the lesser of two evils. Bask in your victory. You've earned it.
Thank you for your rational and adult approach to the November election.

He will change one thing. Arguably the most important thing. He'll send Trump packing.
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  #67  
Old 04-08-2020, 12:59 PM
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Congratulations, you've won. I am a Bernie Bro, and I still intend to vote for Bernie in the Pennsylvania primary in June if he's still on the ballot as a symbolic protest vote, but in November I will bend the knee toward Joe Biden. With gritted teeth, I will reluctantly vote for the neoliberal centrist who won't change a goddamn thing, because he's the lesser of two evils. Bask in your victory. You've earned it.
The only things he'll be able to change will be the same things that any other candidate, including your beloved Bernie, would be able to change. His first four years (and possibly the second term, if there is one) will be spent unraveling the shit show that Trump leaves behind, repairing all the damage that has been done to our country. Bernie would be unable to do any differently, and it's naive to think so.
  #68  
Old 04-08-2020, 12:59 PM
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It won't silence the twitter demons in his head.

*cue dalej42's 1000 yard stare interspersed with BernieBro tweets set to a discordant classical violin crescendo*

Last edited by orcenio; 04-08-2020 at 01:01 PM.
  #69  
Old 04-08-2020, 12:59 PM
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Yeah, get rid of Trump, but otherwise, keep things pretty much as they are. We don't need any serious change in this country, amirite?

No wonder you were such a Buttigieg fanboy: a nice smiling face on the Plutocracy Protection Plan.
Let's get back to normal and then figure out how much serious change might be needed (and possible)
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Old 04-08-2020, 01:07 PM
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I'm glad Sanders quit, because maybe we're on the downhill slope of almost every thread on Dem politics on the SDMB being co-opted and derailed by rabid Bernie-haters.

We'll now be free from non-stop anti-Bernie shit. Thank. Fucking. God.
  #71  
Old 04-08-2020, 01:10 PM
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The only things he'll be able to change will be the same things that any other candidate, including your beloved Bernie, would be able to change. His first four years (and possibly the second term, if there is one) will be spent unraveling the shit show that Trump leaves behind, repairing all the damage that has been done to our country. Bernie would be unable to do any differently, and it's naive to think so.
Exactly so. Why does anyone think that (in the next 4 years anyway) any Democratic candidate is going to get much more done than restore the federal government to a working system? So much time is going to be taking up with basically rebuilding federal agencies from the ground up.
  #72  
Old 04-08-2020, 01:15 PM
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Restoring the federal government to a working system would require huge changes. I'm sure that Biden would stop things from getting any worse, but we need more than that. We need to fix the damage that's already done.
  #73  
Old 04-08-2020, 01:20 PM
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I'm glad Sanders quit, because maybe we're on the downhill slope of almost every thread on Dem politics on the SDMB being co-opted and derailed by rabid Bernie-haters.

We'll now be free from non-stop anti-Bernie shit. Thank. Fucking. God.
Think you have some serious confirmation bias going. There's 2-3 dopers that have a hate on for Sanders but they don't remotely hijack almost every thread.
  #74  
Old 04-08-2020, 01:25 PM
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Restoring the federal government to a working system would require huge changes. I'm sure that Biden would stop things from getting any worse, but we need more than that. We need to fix the damage that's already done.
Any nominee is going to have fill vacant positions that have sat there for years, hindering the mission of tons of federal agencies (the EPA is almost nonfunctional at this point). This sort of thing isn't flashy or even require 'huge changes' - it requires meticulous attention to detail. It's something a Warren or Biden would be very good at. It's not about stopping things from getting worse but to even get it back to an Obama level of functionality is going to require 3-4 years of work itself.
  #75  
Old 04-08-2020, 01:41 PM
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The only things he'll be able to change will be the same things that any other candidate, including your beloved Bernie, would be able to change. His first four years (and possibly the second term, if there is one) will be spent unraveling the shit show that Trump leaves behind, repairing all the damage that has been done to our country. Bernie would be unable to do any differently, and it's naive to think so.
One of the most painful things I've heard from Biden from a left perspective is that he would veto a Medicare-for-all bill even if Congress passed it, and it arrived at his desk.

Last edited by Blalron; 04-08-2020 at 01:42 PM.
  #76  
Old 04-08-2020, 01:48 PM
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Not entirely. Democrats need to win state governorships and state legislatures so they can block state gerrymandering attempts in 2020.
Good point. People need to vote for Democratic for every office in every race in every community. No exceptions. no compromise.

Yes, that includes you Bijou Drains.
  #77  
Old 04-08-2020, 01:59 PM
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Think you have some serious confirmation bias going. There's 2-3 dopers that have a hate on for Sanders but they don't remotely hijack almost every thread.
I guess I have the confirmation bias going on too. Since 4 or 5 days after super Tuesday, I've been reading the Elections forum less and less. The constant gloating and having my nose rubbed over and over in the fact that Bernie lost by the Bernie haters just stopped being fun for me.
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  #78  
Old 04-08-2020, 02:04 PM
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Well, I don't have a serious dog in the fight but the griping after Super Tuesday wasn't entirely from hardcore Bernie haters. He should have fucking closed the campaign right then. It was hopeless and we're in the middle of a pandemic. What did holding out until today do?
  #79  
Old 04-08-2020, 02:06 PM
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Is anyone surprised I’m ecstatic and gloating? Both Corbyn and Bernie gone in the same week, two of the most vile shitstains in politics since 2015 are finally gone.

Message delivered: we don’t want your fucking revolution!!!
I'm starting to think you're a Trump supporter because your posts seemed to be designed to do only one thing. Get anyone who supported Bernie to not vote, vote 3rd party, or even vote for Trump.

Unfortunately for you it's not going to work on me, because I still hate Trump more and will be voting for Joe.
  #80  
Old 04-08-2020, 02:13 PM
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Thats because Bernie would've fought income inequality, now they're celebrating that plutocracy will not be challenged. Thats not a good thing.
...
Note that even if Bernie won, the President cant change the system unilaterally.

Many of Bernie's idealistic ideas would never pass Congress.


A "wealth tax" would have no chance of being passed.
  #81  
Old 04-08-2020, 02:14 PM
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This is the first time I can vote Green and will consider that. And spare me "you are only helping Trump" by voting green.
Nope, since that is a fact. And your snide little attacks on Biden only help trump too.
  #82  
Old 04-08-2020, 02:18 PM
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One of the most painful things I've heard from Biden from a left perspective is that he would veto a Medicare-for-all bill even if Congress passed it, and it arrived at his desk.
. . .because of the cost. He has said repeatedly that the estimated cost of $20-30 trillion dollars would be fiscally irresponsible and financially catastrophic, and that the time it would take to implement such a system would make people wait for years instead of helping them NOW by improving and modifying a system already in place. That's practicality speaking, not pie-in-the-sky schemes.
  #83  
Old 04-08-2020, 02:24 PM
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Why does it matter what he tells the "Bernie Bros"? They won't listen to him, any more than they've ever listened to him. They'll do whatever their boss Putin tells them.

But yes, of course he'll tell his actual supporters to vote for the Democratic nominee, just like he did last time.
He did. But he wouldn't ask his supporters to stop the attacks on Clinton.

I know several Bernie-bros, and no, they are not directly pawns of Putin. Yes, they gleefully passed on whatever fake news the Kremlin put out attacking Hillary and now Biden, but they are honest supported of Bernie. They have even said they will vote for Biden. Still, they couldn't stop attacking Biden or Hillary, even after it was obvious those two had won.
  #84  
Old 04-08-2020, 02:25 PM
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No they don't. They are general election polls between Trump and Biden.
OK
  #85  
Old 04-08-2020, 02:25 PM
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. . .because of the cost. He has said repeatedly that the estimated cost of $20-30 trillion dollars would be fiscally irresponsible and financially catastrophic, and that the time it would take to implement such a system would make people wait for years instead of helping them NOW by improving and modifying a system already in place. That's practicality speaking, not pie-in-the-sky schemes.
It's highly misleading to trot out this 30 trillion dollars figure for M4A without comparing it to the cost of the status quo. Medicare for All raises taxes, but it saves money overall because it eliminates premiums.
  #86  
Old 04-08-2020, 02:27 PM
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He's still asking supporters to give him as many delegates as possible in the remaining primaries. (see just past minute 34 in the video, as well as a comment though not a quote in the written news story.) So I don't suppose we're entirely done with hearing people arguing about votes for Sanders.

Other than that -- very relieved to see this. Biden wasn't my candidate this time around -- the closest I had to a favored candidate in this race was Warren, and I originally hoped that somebody better than Warren would surface. But Biden is the candidate we've got; and he's massively better than Trump. And there is no third-party candidate with a hope in hell of beating Trump; that's the choice we've got.
  #87  
Old 04-08-2020, 02:30 PM
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I think it's important not to take this s too badly and end up infighting.

The left has to decide how to respond now their compromise candidate has dropped out.

A first step would be to ensure the right understands they will need to appeal to all voters now.

Maybe Bernie as VP or at least start supporting government healthcare for all Americans.

Something to help Biden stand out from Trump.
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Old 04-08-2020, 02:35 PM
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It's highly misleading to trot out this 30 trillion dollars figure for M4A without comparing it to the cost of the status quo. Medicare for All raises taxes, but it saves money overall because it eliminates premiums.
It could yes, by re-jiggering the economy in a massive way. It wouldn't be easy.

He also didnt say he would veto M4A, read his actual words:

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/10/bide...on-health.html

“I would veto anything that delays providing the security and the certainty of health care being available now,” Biden responded. “If they got that through in by some miracle or there’s an epiphany that occurred and some miracle occurred that said, ‘OK, it’s passed,’ then you got to look at the cost.”

Biden added: “I want to know, how did they find $35 trillion? What is that doing? Is it going to significantly raise taxes on the middle class, which it will? What’s going to happen?”


“Our opponents do not speak for us and should never be allowed by the press to put words in the Vice President’s mouth. He did not say ‘veto,’” Bates said. “He made clear that his urgent priority is getting to universal coverage as quickly as possible and he explained why he firmly believes our approach should be to build on the profound benefits of the Affordable Care Act with a Medicare-like public option.”

So, Biden didnt say he would Veto M4A unless it "delays providing the security and the certainty of health care being available now,”.
  #89  
Old 04-08-2020, 02:36 PM
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It's highly misleading to trot out this 30 trillion dollars figure for M4A without comparing it to the cost of the status quo. Medicare for All raises taxes, but it saves money overall because it eliminates premiums.
Doing nothing and keeping the current system will cost 50 trillion in health care costs over the next decade. Medicare for all will cost 30 trillion.

We're going to end up paying tens of trillions of dollars no matter what we do. At least with medicare for all we save 20 trillion that we can use to pay down the debt, fund education, fund renewables, etc.
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Old 04-08-2020, 02:37 PM
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I just hope Biden makes a good decision WRT his Veep candidate.
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Old 04-08-2020, 02:39 PM
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I'm starting to think you're a Trump supporter because your posts seemed to be designed to do only one thing. Get anyone who supported Bernie to not vote, vote 3rd party, or even vote for Trump.

Unfortunately for you it's not going to work on me, because I still hate Trump more and will be voting for Joe.
You either think its important to stop Trump from another four years and the GOP from packing the supreme court for our entire lifetimes or you don't, if someone hurting your widdle feelings plays any part at all in this decision you were a lost cause to begin with.
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Old 04-08-2020, 02:47 PM
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I don't think it was obnoxious
No-one cares what you think. It was obnoxious. I doubt you’ll ever understand why, but that doesn’t matter. Nothing hinges on your understanding.
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Old 04-08-2020, 02:48 PM
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You either think its important to stop Trump from another four years and the GOP from packing the supreme court for our entire lifetimes or you don't, if someone hurting your widdle feelings plays any part at all in this decision you were a lost cause to begin with.
Huh? And here I thought I'd just got done saying my widdle feelings weren't hurt and I would be voting for Joe. Guess I need to work on my writing.
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Old 04-08-2020, 02:59 PM
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I just hope Biden makes a good decision WRT his Veep candidate.
I'm hearing that he is strongly leaning towards...
SPOILER:
Hillary
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Old 04-08-2020, 03:00 PM
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I'm starting to think you're a Trump supporter because your posts seemed to be designed to do only one thing. Get anyone who supported Bernie to not vote, vote 3rd party, or even vote for Trump.

Unfortunately for you it's not going to work on me, because I still hate Trump more and will be voting for Joe.
That’s funny. Worked my ass off for Pete, voted Joe in Illinois primary and would have voted for Shitbag Sanders had he gotten the nomination
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Old 04-08-2020, 03:04 PM
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I'm hearing that he is strongly leaning towards...
SPOILER:
Hillary
This is you parodying Trump, right? Because otherwise it's just idiotic.
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Old 04-08-2020, 03:06 PM
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I'm hearing that he is strongly leaning towards...
SPOILER:
Hillary
No, that's not true.
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Old 04-08-2020, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Blalron View Post
Congratulations, you've won. I am a Bernie Bro, and I still intend to vote for Bernie in the Pennsylvania primary in June if he's still on the ballot as a symbolic protest vote, but in November I will bend the knee toward Joe Biden. With gritted teeth, I will reluctantly vote for the neoliberal centrist who won't change a goddamn thing, because he's the lesser of two evils. Bask in your victory. You've earned it.
(Emphasis Mine) The kids in cages appreciate your sacrifice.

I mean, have you even paid attention to the shit that went down during the Trump presidency? Even a little?
  #99  
Old 04-08-2020, 03:08 PM
Fugazi is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Denver
Posts: 1,475
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalej42 View Post
That’s funny. Worked my ass off for Pete, voted Joe in Illinois primary and would have voted for Shitbag Sanders had he gotten the nomination
And yet you seem determined to alienate Bernie supporters. That can do nothing but hurt Biden and help Trump. Does your hatred of "Shitbag Sanders" outweigh your desire to see Trump gone?
  #100  
Old 04-08-2020, 03:12 PM
John_Stamos'_Left_Ear is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blalron View Post
One of the most painful things I've heard from Biden from a left perspective is that he would veto a Medicare-for-all bill even if Congress passed it, and it arrived at his desk.
Yeah, how about the full quote:
Quote:
"I would veto anything that delays providing the security and the certainty of health care being available now," Biden said.

"If they got that through by some miracle, there was an epiphany that occurred, and some miracle occurred that said okay, it passed, then you got to look at the costs. I want to know, how do they find the $35 trillion? What is that doing? Is it going to significantly raise taxes on the middle class, which it will. What’s going to happen?"

Politifact
He wants to ensure nobody is denied healthcare while fighting for something which will never pass anyway, and he wants to be able to pay for it. Meet those conditions and he will sign it.

I don't care if you don't believe me (or him) it won't happen so it's a bullshit talking point with no basis in reality. But if you're gonna use bullshit talking point hypotheticals, at least use the entire quote.
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