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  #101  
Old 04-08-2020, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Blalron View Post
It's highly misleading to trot out this 30 trillion dollars figure for M4A without comparing it to the cost of the status quo. Medicare for All raises taxes, but it saves money overall because it eliminates premiums.
If it doesn't have a $30 trillion price tag then the point is moot.

But the fact is that there is no consensus on this among experts of all political stripes.

Cite.

I think healthcare is a right and for profit healthcare is immoral and want our system to emulate better ones in other countries. But it's naive to think that it will magically fix everything. It could very well cost more - and be worth every penny. Or it could cost less. Those big numbers are scary but that doesn't mean we should be scared - or that they are inaccurate.
  #102  
Old 04-08-2020, 03:21 PM
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No-one cares what you think. It was obnoxious. I doubt you’ll ever understand why, but that doesn’t matter. Nothing hinges on your understanding.
But my words will make or break the election?

Make up your mind: Either I wield the power to change minds and votes or nothing I say matters.

If it's the former, by golly, I voted for Bernie in the 2016 primary.
If it's the latter, then who cares what I say? Why do you care?

Your motivation is just to complain? Okay then.

Last edited by John_Stamos'_Left_Ear; 04-08-2020 at 03:23 PM.
  #103  
Old 04-08-2020, 03:24 PM
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And yet you seem determined to alienate Bernie supporters. That can do nothing but hurt Biden and help Trump. Does your hatred of "Shitbag Sanders" outweigh your desire to see Trump gone?
Yeah, Dale isnt helping.

Look, I admire Sanders for his great ideas, even if not always practical. What I hated what his constant negative attacks on Biden and others.

Sanders is a idea man. We should listen to his ideas and think of ways his ideas could be made practical.
  #104  
Old 04-08-2020, 03:25 PM
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OK, that's enough, people.

I know this is an 'emotions run high' moment for many of you (on both sides). I concede that.

But the personal cracks about other posters will stop. And it'll stop now.

I hope that's clear. I'd hate to boot several of you from P&E for a while.
  #105  
Old 04-08-2020, 03:26 PM
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Give him a cabinet position. Maybe a secretary. He's a great politician, but he wouldn't win. Glad he's out of the race.
  #106  
Old 04-08-2020, 03:27 PM
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But my words will make or break the election?

Make up your mind: Either I wield the power to change minds and votes or nothing I say matters.

If it's the former, by golly, I voted for Bernie in the 2016 primary.
If it's the latter, then who cares what I say? Why do you care?

Your motivation is just to complain? Okay then.
I’ve got better things to do than explain the most basic elements of human interaction, tact, and common decency to someone who is determined not to listen. And, again, you don’t have to understand why what you said was obnoxious, because nobody cares whether you understand anything or not. All you have to do is accept that people who know better than you agree that it was. You can then choose to either keep being obnoxious, or to refrain from being obnoxious. And if you can’t tell the difference then perhaps it’d behoove you to stop speaking altogether.

Last edited by Unreconstructed Man; 04-08-2020 at 03:28 PM.
  #107  
Old 04-08-2020, 03:42 PM
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Now we find out if Bernie means it when he says he'll support Biden. Will he support him by not tearing him down or will he support him actively out on the trail stirring up his group of voters.
Unfortunately at this point we donít know how much of a trail there will be.

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See, there's this thing called voting.
Voting? Yeah thatís something other people get to do. My primary was going to be in June and now probably July. I never get a say in who is running for president. I have to live with whoever gets picked by other parts of the country.


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Maybe Bernie as VP or at least start supporting government healthcare for all Americans.

Something to help Biden stand out from Trump.
Oh god no not VP. Can we please have someone under 80? Itís moot anyway since Biden will pick a woman.

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Give him a cabinet position. Maybe a secretary. He's a great politician, but he wouldn't win. Glad he's out of the race.
Bernie is an ideologue. No way he will take a cabinet post and work for Biden pushing his agenda. He would much rather be independent on the floor of the senate spouting off in front of a camera in an empty chamber. I have no doubt he will be behind Biden against Trump but he will never work for him.
  #108  
Old 04-08-2020, 03:42 PM
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Might run afoul of just noticed mod note.

Last edited by bobot; 04-08-2020 at 03:44 PM.
  #109  
Old 04-08-2020, 03:46 PM
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Sanders supporters in general: Why not vote for the candidate from the party upon whose coattails Bernie was riding? I mean, if pretending to be a Democrat was good enough for Bernie...
  #110  
Old 04-08-2020, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Unreconstructed Man View Post
Iíve got better things to do than explain the most basic elements of human interaction, tact, and common decency to someone who is determined not to listen. And, again, you donít have to understand why what you said was obnoxious, because nobody cares whether you understand anything or not. All you have to do is accept that people who know better than you agree that it was. You can then choose to either keep being obnoxious, or to refrain from being obnoxious. And if you canít tell the difference then perhaps itíd behoove you to stop speaking altogether.
Because your post was two minutes after my Mod Instruction I'm going to assume you didn't see it. But keep it civil from this point forward.
  #111  
Old 04-08-2020, 04:43 PM
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Sanders supporters in general: Why not vote for the candidate from the party upon whose coattails Bernie was riding? I mean, if pretending to be a Democrat was good enough for Bernie...
It's this kind of attitude which I'm sure is going to endear lots of Bernie voters to vote for essentially a status quo candidate who looks like he has early onset dementia.

You're the United States, and you're electing the equivalent of Constantin Chernenko to the position of President. You're terrified of structural change without realising that by putting it off you're just slowly running the US into the ground. Thanks boomers.
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  #112  
Old 04-08-2020, 05:03 PM
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It is now a choice between two people. Easy, right? Especially considering that one of the people is from the same ticket that Bernie rode. Easy.

Last edited by bobot; 04-08-2020 at 05:03 PM.
  #113  
Old 04-08-2020, 05:23 PM
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It is now a choice between two people. Easy, right? Especially considering that one of the people is from the same ticket that Bernie rode. Easy.
Yeah easy, easy voting for someone who's basically a veneer for vested interests, voting for someone who stripped bankruptcy protections for students and families, it's almost as if you're more afraid of Bernie than you are of Trump.

The "I'm all right Jack" Boomer mentality is alive and well in the democratic party, don't be surprised if you lose again to Trump in November.
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  #114  
Old 04-08-2020, 05:26 PM
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It is now a choice between two people. Easy, right? Especially considering that one of the people is from the same ticket that Bernie rode. Easy.
One of Heinlein's avatars (I think it was in Stranger in a Strange Land, which would make it Jubal Harshaw) said something to the effect that the difference between "bad" and "worse" is more significant than the difference between "good" and "better." True in this case, except that, as I texted to my daughter, in this case it's a difference between "meh" and "pukingly horrible."
  #115  
Old 04-08-2020, 05:38 PM
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... it's almost as if you're more afraid of Bernie than you are of Trump.

....
Bernie's not running anymore. Trump is. Easy.
This should be a landslide, but it may not be because people that yesterday supported a candidate on the Demcratic ticket, today won't support the Democrat. So point fingers all you want about Trump winning again.

Last edited by bobot; 04-08-2020 at 05:41 PM.
  #116  
Old 04-08-2020, 05:44 PM
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I met some former Bernie 2016 people on the Pete campaign. The questions we asked them were:
What worked?
What didn’t work?
What would you have improved on?

I think such a conversation could be useful.
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  #117  
Old 04-08-2020, 06:04 PM
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Rule #1: Never Vote for the Greater of Two Evils.

Tattoo that on your eyeballs if you have to, but never stop thinking it.
  #118  
Old 04-08-2020, 06:34 PM
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Bernie's not running anymore. Trump is. Easy.
This should be a landslide, but it may not be because people that yesterday supported a candidate on the Demcratic ticket, today won't support the Democrat. So point fingers all you want about Trump winning again.
Trump won primarily as a protest against the Dems and the Reps establishments ignoring voters concerns for too long, and your idea of a remedy of this is Joe Biden, a guy who has early on set dementia and who has really no real or original ideas to fundamentally change the system which has let so many people down.

This is typical of the Boomer mentality, it's all "Me me me me me" You expect people to just vote for Biden because Trumps bad, how about voting for Biden because he's going to placate the left base in the Democratic party and adopt some of their policies?
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  #119  
Old 04-08-2020, 06:43 PM
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So are you voting for Trump, or against? There are two choices here. This is easy.

Last edited by bobot; 04-08-2020 at 06:46 PM.
  #120  
Old 04-08-2020, 06:45 PM
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Regression toward the mean

That this is what weíve come to says a lot more about the culture of the country as a whole and the divisions within it than it does about the relative competencies of the candidates. Elizabeth Warren was smart, articulate, educated, experienced, personable, and met questions and challenges to how sheíd govern with detailed plans and policy statements. Somehow, this made her ďunelectableĒ. Go figure.

Stranger
I support this post. Warren was absolutely the best candidate in terms of how ably and competently she would have governed. She's a terrier at good policy while still being able to both work within organizations as well create good organizations that will execute good policy. Was she good a candidate? Apparently not good enough, but that doesn't speak to how well she would have governed which IMO is excellently.

That said: Biden or bust now.
  #121  
Old 04-08-2020, 06:47 PM
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Thank you for your rational and adult approach to the November election.

He will change one thing. Arguably the most important thing. He'll send Trump packing.
Yeah but a lot of us are unhappy where our options are either a fascist party or a weak, passive centrist party. Its why the country keeps moving to the right, because there is no mainstream pushback to move the nation to the left. In 2028 we're all going to look at the new GOP nominee and say 'you know, Trump wasn't that bad' the same way a lot of people said that about Bush in 2016.

https://i.redd.it/d09q0x9ekww11.jpg

My fear with Biden is that he is a gullible old man who will be tricked and scammed by Mitch McConnell constantly, even if the democrats control the senate and house and McConnell is just minority leader. I hope the democrats in the house, senate and white house are able to keep Bidens gullibility on a short leash the same way the GOP in the whitehouse tried to keep Trump's stupidity on a leash.

But I'm sure Mitch McConnell will talk to Biden and push for far right legislation and judges, Biden will say 'lets be bipartisan and do something more center right instead' and McConnell will say 'you win Joe, lets do a biptartisan center right thing together' and Biden will think he is some hero while McConnell and the other republicans laugh at him behind his back because he keeps pushing legislation and judges that are more conservative than they need to be.

Its going to be like if your grandpa is constantly telling you about this wonderful telemarketer he just met and how he needs to write them a $10,000 check. All that guys friends and family have to get together to tell him 'no grandpa, don't write that person a check. He isn't your friend he is just scamming you'. Thats what its going to be like with Biden. He will constantly sell out his own voters in the pursuit of empty bipartisanship I fear. I just hope that the democratic party can stop him.

Also all that metoo stuff feels empty with Biden as our nominee.

He is still vastly superior than Trump though.
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Last edited by Wesley Clark; 04-08-2020 at 06:49 PM.
  #122  
Old 04-08-2020, 06:51 PM
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Y...
My fear with Biden is that he is a gullible old man who will be tricked and scammed by Mitch McConnell ...
These guys are not unacquainted with each other. So you can have Trump/McConnell or Biden/McConnell. This really is easy.

Last edited by bobot; 04-08-2020 at 06:52 PM.
  #123  
Old 04-08-2020, 07:01 PM
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So are you voting for Trump, or against? There are two choices here. This is easy.
Biden, but you're just mortgaging the problems which brought Trump to power to future generations you've got a typical Boomer mentality.
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  #124  
Old 04-08-2020, 07:03 PM
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I met some former Bernie 2016 people on the Pete campaign. The questions we asked them were:
What worked?
What didnít work?
What would you have improved on?

I think such a conversation could be useful.
I'm not sure what your questions are about. What worked? What didn't?

To me, the big issue is that America isn't progressive enough for someone like Sanders right now. The older generation fears anything that might be considered socialism, and minority voters are more conservative. Bernie got fewer voters. Even if 55% of the democratic party considers themselves liberal, but they aren't voting like it.

But its more a question of time. People under 40 are much more Sanders supporters than older voters, just as older voters prefer Biden.

The goal of the Sanders movement in a lot of ways wasn't even to get Sanders elected. Even if Sanders became president, he wouldn't accomplish much of anything. The democratic congress isn't going to vote for his agenda, they won't even pass Sander's agenda in blue states with 80% democratic legislatures.

The purpose of the Sanders movement is to build a grassroots progressive movement for the federal, state and local level. To get people involved in politics, get people to donate hundreds of millions of dollars to counteract corporate funds, and get people to organize both in civics and in their community and at work.

Its kind of like movement conservatism. Reagan didn't appear out of nowhere, it took a lot of organizing to get there.

IMO, the US won't get a true progressive movement until the 2030s or 2040s. By then demographics will have changed and the oldest millennials will be nearly 60. The older generation who are more conservative (either conservative democrats or far right republicans) will mostly be gone and replaced by newer generations who have never known job security, reliable health care, affordable college or a sustainable economic system.
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  #125  
Old 04-08-2020, 07:08 PM
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IMO, the US won't get a true progressive movement until the 2030s or 2040s. By then demographics will have changed and the oldest millennials will be nearly 60.
Edit: all the Boomer generation would have gone.
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Last edited by Ryan_Liam; 04-08-2020 at 07:09 PM.
  #126  
Old 04-08-2020, 07:09 PM
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These guys are not unacquainted with each other. So you can have Trump/McConnell or Biden/McConnell. This really is easy.
I'm voting for Biden in the general (still voting for Bernie in the primary though). You don't have to convert me. Looking at Bidens policy issues, he policies really aren't bad.

https://joebiden.com/joes-vision/
  • Making the US 100% renewable by 2050
  • Passing health reform that lowers costs and covers 97% of people
  • $15 minimum wage
  • A trillion in infrastructure investments

My fear is Biden will abandon his principles for a slap on the back from Mitch McConnell, who will laugh at him behind his back with the other republicans.

If Biden can get his agenda items passed, that would be great. But even if he has the ability to do so, who knows if he will.
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  #127  
Old 04-08-2020, 07:10 PM
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Edit: all the Boomer generation would have gone.
Well them and the silent generation.

Not saying all boomers are bad, just that they are from a different generation. A significant fraction don't seem to understand or honestly even care what life is actually like for their kids and grandkids. So the solutions their kids and grandkids want to the real life problems they face are written off by older generations who don't understand those problems. Young people are clamoring for an attempt at a middle class life and a sustainable economic system.

And if my generation does the same thing to our kids and grandkids (we don't understand or care about their real world problems nearly as much as we care about ideology or identity politics), I will not resent them for feeling the same way about us.
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Last edited by Wesley Clark; 04-08-2020 at 07:12 PM.
  #128  
Old 04-08-2020, 07:11 PM
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My fear with Biden is that he is a gullible old man who will be tricked and scammed by Mitch McConnell constantly, even if the democrats control the senate and house and McConnell is just minority leader.
WTF? If McConnell is in the minority he'll be a bitter old man with no power. He may even resign. How often does Chuck Schumer trick or scam anybody? How could he?
  #129  
Old 04-08-2020, 07:17 PM
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My impression is one of Bidens weaknesses is he wants everyone to get along.

I'm guessing in this age of hyper partisanship, McConnell will give Biden the impression that he can have bipartisanship, just so long as he pushes for center-right if not outright right wing legislation and judicial nominees.

Maybe the democrats will recommend a centrist judge, but McConnell will tell him 'appoint a center right judge and the republicans in the senate will vote for him' and Biden is so desperate for 'bipartisanship' that he will sell out the people who voted for him to achieve it.

The republicans will laugh at him behind his back at how easily he sells out his own voters in exchange for approval from republicans.
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  #130  
Old 04-08-2020, 07:37 PM
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WTF? If McConnell is in the minority he'll be a bitter old man with no power. He may even resign. How often does Chuck Schumer trick or scam anybody? How could he?
Remember 2010 when the Dems had a 59-41 Senate majority and weren't able to get much done at all?

McConnell was minority leader then. Was he powerless? Did he resign? IIRC, the answers to both questions were 'no.'
  #131  
Old 04-08-2020, 07:38 PM
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My impression is one of Bidens weaknesses is he wants everyone to get along.

I'm guessing in this age of hyper partisanship, McConnell will give Biden the impression that he can have bipartisanship, just so long as he pushes for center-right if not outright right wing legislation and judicial nominees.

Maybe the democrats will recommend a centrist judge, but McConnell will tell him 'appoint a center right judge and the republicans in the senate will vote for him' and Biden is so desperate for 'bipartisanship' that he will sell out the people who voted for him to achieve it.

The republicans will laugh at him behind his back at how easily he sells out his own voters in exchange for approval from republicans.
Really? You couldnít be more wrong. Biden blocked Robert Bork. Bernie Sanders can choose to vote on Bidenís judicial nominees should he choose to show up to the Senate and do so.
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  #132  
Old 04-08-2020, 07:39 PM
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Why does everyone keep saying Biden has early onset dementia? He's 77. That's prime age for dementia. Early onset is defined as before 65.
  #133  
Old 04-08-2020, 08:16 PM
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IMHO, everything now hinges on Biden's VP pick. Chances are Trump or Biden won't last a 4 year term. Trump's got Pence (unless he replaces him with Don Jr. or Princess Ivanka) so Biden needs to come up with an inspiring VP pick. If I was him I'd promise to be a one term President.
  #134  
Old 04-08-2020, 08:26 PM
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Why does everyone keep saying Biden has early onset dementia? He's 77. That's prime age for dementia. Early onset is defined as before 65.
I'm still catching up on this thread but my guess is it's from his debate performances. With a large crowd, the guy sounded like a bumbling, stumbling idiot.

(ETA: and I'm merely guessing as to what those other people meant; but these are my impressions for this race's debates, and I saw almost all of them - may have missed one, maybe two at most)

But the last debate, with just Bernie and no audience to interrupt, he was fantastic. What a huge difference. Poised, calm, professional, not at a loss for words, on point, succinct, and with well-composed answers.

Last edited by Bullitt; 04-08-2020 at 08:27 PM.
  #135  
Old 04-08-2020, 08:36 PM
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His point is that Biden just has dementia, full stop, not "early onset" dementia. I don't think he does, for the record, but he is shit at talking. I've been watching his public addresses throughout this quarantine, they are very hit and miss. Sometimes he makes good points but they're perpetually sprinkled with his trademark Bidenisms.

John Bonham has been described as "playing like he never knew what was going to happen next, like he was teetering on the edge of a cliff." I think it was Dave Grohl who said this. It certainly is an exciting style, when it comes to playing drums. It's not so great for speaking. But that's just how Biden rolls.
  #136  
Old 04-08-2020, 08:46 PM
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I'm hearing that he is strongly leaning towards...
SPOILER:
Hillary
You know, at first I thought there's no way in hell that he would. But after a few seconds, you know, on some levels this choice would make a lot of sense and if managed appropriately by Joe ATPTB could form a formidable opponent. And if Biden wins, then Hillary is most likely the President in 2024 or 2028.


I think it makes a lot of sense.
  #137  
Old 04-08-2020, 08:46 PM
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Well, I'm relieved. With Biden at the helm I can now wholeheartedly wish for Democrat avalanche in November. I usually favor a balance but I want the Republicans to pay for letting an odious person like Trump to get their nomination. 50 years from now I want people to say "Remember what happened to the Republicans after Trump became president?"
  #138  
Old 04-08-2020, 08:48 PM
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...
My fear with Biden is that he is a gullible old man who will be tricked and scammed by Mitch McConnell constantly, even if the democrats control the senate and house and McConnell is just minority leader......
Biden has a lot of experience with Moscow Mitch and knows all his tricks, They aren't buddies. In fact, however, Biden has the best chance of getting stuff past Mitch, Biden knows where the bodies are buried.

Note that Moscow Mitch is older than Biden.
  #139  
Old 04-08-2020, 08:49 PM
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Why does everyone keep saying Biden has early onset dementia? He's 77. That's prime age for dementia. Early onset is defined as before 65.

No one is saying this but the fucking kremlin, it's one of their lies. You should know this. Why are you spreading this Putin lie?
  #140  
Old 04-08-2020, 09:01 PM
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No one is saying this but the fucking kremlin, it's one of their lies. You should know this. Why are you spreading this Putin lie?
Goddammit, am I speaking into the wind, here?

DrDeth, that's a warning for you for accusations of lying AND disobeying moderator instructions.

In lieu of giving you two warnings I am forbidding you from posting in Politics and Elections until 4/15/20. Don't push your luck.
  #141  
Old 04-08-2020, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Omar Little View Post
I'm hearing that he is strongly leaning towards...
SPOILER:
Hillary
I don't think she'd accept it.
  #142  
Old 04-08-2020, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by DrDeth View Post
Biden has a lot of experience with Moscow Mitch and knows all his tricks, They aren't buddies. In fact, however, Biden has the best chance of getting stuff past Mitch, Biden knows where the bodies are buried.

Note that Moscow Mitch is older than Biden.
Eight months, FWIW.
  #143  
Old 04-08-2020, 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Projammer View Post
Why does everyone keep saying Biden has early onset dementia? He's 77. That's prime age for dementia. Early onset is defined as before 65.
I think they're meaning early STAGE dementia.

Those of you who know more about this than I do can tell me more: Some people are saying that Biden stutters off camera and his verbal gaffes are a way to avoid it in live broadcasts and rallies.
  #144  
Old 04-08-2020, 09:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Bullitt View Post
You know, at first I thought there's no way in hell that he would. But after a few seconds, you know, on some levels this choice would make a lot of sense and if managed appropriately by Joe ATPTB could form a formidable opponent. And if Biden wins, then Hillary is most likely the President in 2024 or 2028.


I think it makes a lot of sense.
It is an absolutely certain election loser. Hillary Clinton had her shot, and she blew it. This truly would alienate the progressive wing. She does not deserve another chance, and she is already too old to be President. (So is Biden. So is Trump, and so was Sanders.)

He needs a running mate who isn't a fossil, isn't a loser, and actually helps win the election, preferably one who can deliver a swing state.
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  #145  
Old 04-08-2020, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by nearwildheaven View Post
I think they're meaning early STAGE dementia.

Those of you who know more about this than I do can tell me more: Some people are saying that Biden stutters off camera and his verbal gaffes are a way to avoid it in live broadcasts and rallies.
You know, it's not difficult to find info about Biden's stutter.
  #146  
Old 04-08-2020, 09:47 PM
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He needs to tell his Bros to get behind Biden and not sit home and pout on election day. The Pubbies are going to do enough to make sure Dem votes don't get counted. They don't need help from disgruntled Bernie supporters.
He needs to do it in mid-to-late October. Otherwise, it goes in one ear and out the other.

IMO, what he needs to do is to explain to his supporters that what they really need to do is to vote in the Progressive candidates in the House (and Senate, if there are any). It doesn't really matter who is President if the Congress doesn't match the ideology. Enough Progressives side with the Republicans, and it's, "Green New Deal, or No Deal for the One-Termer." Of course, that assumes that they can get anything through the Senate...

Quote:
Originally Posted by orcenio View Post
Nuts to that, Bernie 2024!
The question is, how many Bernie supporters are under the impression that they won't be able to primary out Biden in 2024 if he wins in 2020, so the only path to Bernie 2024 starts with Trump 2020 - and they make it a point to vote for Trump just to make sure it happens?

See above for an alternative, albeit much less likely, method to get Bernie nominated by the Democrats in 2024.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thorny locust View Post
He's still asking supporters to give him as many delegates as possible in the remaining primaries. (see just past minute 34 in the video, as well as a comment though not a quote in the written news story.) So I don't suppose we're entirely done with hearing people arguing about votes for Sanders.
He says he wants as many delegates as possible so they can have some say in the platform. Refresh my memory - when was the last time any candidate felt that they were bound by their party's platform?
  #147  
Old 04-08-2020, 09:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Bijou Drains View Post
This is the first time I can vote Green and will consider that. And spare me "you are only helping Trump" by voting green.
I'm a registered Green. What state are you in? Is it by any reasonable reckoning a swing state, one that could go for Trump or could go for Biden, depending upon how people vote?

I'm not. I live in New York. If New York comes anywhere close to casting its electoral votes for Trump, Biden is very dead in the water already and New York won't matter.

If you don't live in a swing state, you can vote Green and not be "helping Trump".
  #148  
Old 04-08-2020, 09:49 PM
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Originally Posted by RTFirefly View Post
Remember 2010 when the Dems had a 59-41 Senate majority and weren't able to get much done at all?

McConnell was minority leader then. Was he powerless? Did he resign? IIRC, the answers to both questions were 'no.'
How did McConnell trick or scam anyone then? He followed Senate rules, just as Schumer has done but with less leverage. Is there anyone in America who thinks that Schumer therefore tricked or scammed McConnell?
  #149  
Old 04-08-2020, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by AHunter3 View Post
I'm a registered Green. What state are you in? Is it by any reasonable reckoning a swing state, one that could go for Trump or could go for Biden, depending upon how people vote?

I'm not. I live in New York. If New York comes anywhere close to casting its electoral votes for Trump, Biden is very dead in the water already and New York won't matter.

If you don't live in a swing state, you can vote Green and not be "helping Trump".
Bijou is, I think, in NC, which is possibly a swing state. Maybe you could offer to trade votes?
  #150  
Old 04-08-2020, 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted by DrDeth View Post
Biden has a lot of experience with Moscow Mitch and knows all his tricks, They aren't buddies. In fact, however, Biden has the best chance of getting stuff past Mitch, Biden knows where the bodies are buried.

Note that Moscow Mitch is older than Biden.
Possibly. Possibly not.

https://www.newsweek.com/obama-aide-...onnell-1444441

https://inthesetimes.com/features/jo...rism-2020.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/18/u...mcconnell.html

https://theintercept.com/2019/06/24/...itch-mconnell/


Quote:
Reid felt like he had successfully pushed McConnell to the brink, buoyed by House Speaker John Boehner’s inability to get his unruly conference to agree to anything. It was now Sunday, December 30, and Democrats only had to hold out until Tuesday to find themselves in a dramatically improved political position, as the dawning of the new year would mean the tax cuts expired and automatically reverted to pre-Bush levels. At that point, it would be Republicans left pleading for rate cuts.

In desperation, McConnell reached out directly to Biden, calling him on the phone and explaining that Reid was refusing to be reasonable. Over the course of the day, McConnell and Biden struck a deal. “Biden gave Republicans everything they wanted in exchange for fixing the fiscal cliff problem,” the GOP operative recalled.

Biden, who served in the Senate from 1973 to 2009, and as vice president from 2009 until 2017, is now locked in his third Democratic primary contest for the presidential nomination. “The reason he has such good relationships with Republicans in the Senate is he never hesitates to put aside the highest priorities of his base in the interests of compromise,” the Republican operative said. “That’s also how you make life difficult in a primary.”
According to that, McConnell played Biden like a chump in 2010 when Harry Reid had McConnell in a vulnerable position. I see no reason this won't just keep happening over and over.
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Last edited by Wesley Clark; 04-08-2020 at 10:07 PM.
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