#151  
Old 04-08-2020, 10:09 PM
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You know, at first I thought there's no way in hell that he would. But after a few seconds, you know, on some levels this choice would make a lot of sense and if managed appropriately by Joe ATPTB could form a formidable opponent. And if Biden wins, then Hillary is most likely the President in 2024 or 2028.


I think it makes a lot of sense.
Please no. She had her chance. Its going to be hard enough to get the progressive wing behind Biden.

Biden would be better off picking a female progressive. Warren is nice but with this virus her age is an issue.
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  #152  
Old 04-08-2020, 10:17 PM
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Possibly. Possibly not.

https://www.newsweek.com/obama-aide-...onnell-1444441

https://inthesetimes.com/features/jo...rism-2020.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/18/u...mcconnell.html

https://theintercept.com/2019/06/24/...itch-mconnell/




According to that, McConnell played Biden like a chump in 2010 when Harry Reid had McConnell in a vulnerable position. I see no reason this won't just keep happening over and over.
Just to add to this, reading the fourth article is a good piece of info.

Democratic senators were pretty upset with how incompetent and submissive Biden was in doing McConnells bidding in extending the Bush tax cuts.

Quote:
As details of the deal [that Biden worked out with McConnell] began leaking out, progressive Democratic senators were floored. A large group of them — including Sanders, Sens. Sherrod Brown of Ohio, Jeff Merkley of Oregon, Sheldon Whitehouse of Rhode Island, Al Franken of Minnesota, and Tom Harkin of Iowa — stormed over to Reid’s office.

The deal was awful, they told Reid, and it had to be stopped. Reid told them what had happened, that it was out of his hands and that McConnell had gone around him to Biden. He said he was working on improving it and would be in touch throughout the day.

Years later, Reid still regrets how it went down. “If we’d have gone over the cliff, we’d have had resources to do a lot of good things in the country — infrastructure development — but it didn’t work out that way,” Reid said. Letting all the tax rates go back to pre-Bush levels would have yielded the Treasury around $3 trillion over 10 years. Instead, the deal ultimately brought in around $600 billion (or would have, if taxes hadn’t been slashed again by Republicans in 2018). Without the deal, taxes on dividend payments to the rich would have been set at 39.6 percent. Under the terms of the deal, they would be set at 20 percent, meaning that the super-wealthy would be paying lower tax rates on their passive dividend income than some working people would pay on their salaries.

I asked Reid how Biden defended the strategy that day.

“It wasn’t one that I agreed with,” he replied politely, “so you’d have to ask some of his people.”

His people declined to comment.
This behavior is going to continue. The republicans will scam Biden like the gullible, naive chump he is and he will sell out his voters in the name of 'bipartisanship', even if it pisses off and alienates democrats in congress and likely democratic voters.

I mean, he is still better than Trump by a huge margin. But I wouldn't expect him to accomplish much. McConnell scammed Biden when the GOP only had 41 senators.
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  #153  
Old 04-08-2020, 11:07 PM
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It is an absolutely certain election loser.
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Please no. She had her chance.
You guys might be right, but I think it is an idea that has some merits. We'll see who he picks. And you're probably right, he probably won't pick her.
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Old 04-08-2020, 11:08 PM
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The question is, how many Bernie supporters are under the impression that they won't be able to primary out Biden in 2024 if he wins in 2020, so the only path to Bernie 2024 starts with Trump 2020 - and they make it a point to vote for Trump just to make sure it happens?

See above for an alternative, albeit much less likely, method to get Bernie nominated by the Democrats in 2024.
Well Bernie 2028, then. Problem solved.
  #155  
Old 04-08-2020, 11:10 PM
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Too old. Way too old.
  #156  
Old 04-08-2020, 11:29 PM
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  #157  
Old 04-09-2020, 12:16 AM
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In wake of Bernie dropping out, Jill Stein is now calling upon progressives to leave the Democratic Party.
  #158  
Old 04-09-2020, 01:28 AM
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The #demexit people would be funny if they didn’t have a chance to be truly dangerous.
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Old 04-09-2020, 04:30 AM
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Biden supporters please get cracking with the reasons why Biden is good.

The lesser of two evils stuff is not going to cut it.
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Old 04-09-2020, 05:09 AM
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How did McConnell trick or scam anyone then? He followed Senate rules, just as Schumer has done but with less leverage. Is there anyone in America who thinks that Schumer therefore tricked or scammed McConnell?
Look, I'm only responding to what you said about McConnell having no power once the GOP is in the minority. He has the power, just as he did in the minority from 2010-2014, to bring the Senate to a halt, to make sure not a damn thing gets through, no matter how badly the Dems want it.

This is why Harry Reid got rid of the filibuster for lower court appointments in 2013: McConnell was blocking their confirmation, wholesale. Only killing the filibuster for this particular purpose restored the Dems' power to put judges on the federal District Courts and Circuit Courts of Appeals.

The filibuster is still in place for regular legislation. As long as that's true, a Minority Leader has a great deal of power. Other than for judicial appointments, he can grind the Senate to a halt, and make sure none of the legislation the majority party wants can get through.

The difference between Schumer and the Democrats and McConnell and the GOP is that the Dems aren't going to threaten to blow up the whole system just to get their way, the way McConnell did with the debt limit, for instance.

This isn't a criticism, btw - neither party should be willing to do shit like that. But if one party is and the other isn't, it gives a tremendous negotiating advantage to the party that is willing to blow shit up.
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Old 04-09-2020, 05:15 AM
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On another subject, Hillary would be a lousy VP pick. The problem is that a lot of people really hate her, including a lot of Bernie supporters whose votes we need.
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Old 04-09-2020, 05:23 AM
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Biden supporters please get cracking with the reasons why Biden is good.

The lesser of two evils stuff is not going to cut it.
Let’s discuss it here: https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb...4#post22238404
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  #163  
Old 04-09-2020, 05:27 AM
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On another subject, Hillary would be a lousy VP pick. The problem is that a lot of people really hate her, including a lot of Bernie supporters whose votes we need.
Hillary Clinton isn’t going to be VP.
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  #164  
Old 04-09-2020, 05:48 AM
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John Bonham has been described as "playing like he never knew what was going to happen next, like he was teetering on the edge of a cliff."
I've also heard this to describe the guitar solo in Heartbreaker.

In normal times, this would hurt Biden. It still might, but less so than if he weren't running against someone who talks like a grade schooler.
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Old 04-09-2020, 05:56 AM
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Hillary Clinton isn’t going to be VP.
I'm aware of that. Do you have anything to contribute to whether she'd be a good or bad VP pick, completely aside from the unlikelihood that it would happen?
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Old 04-09-2020, 06:06 AM
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Biden supporters please get cracking with the reasons why Biden is good.

The lesser of two evils stuff is not going to cut it.
It depends on how evil and the gulf in between the two evils. In this case I do believe it does cut it.
  #167  
Old 04-09-2020, 06:43 AM
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Biden supporters please get cracking with the reasons why Biden is good.

The lesser of two evils stuff is not going to cut it.
It absolutely does "cut it." If I have to choose between chemotherapy and a slow agonizing death from colon cancer, I'm not gonna demand that my doctor explain why chemotherapy is a lot of fun, and I'm not going to decide to treat myself with cocaine and blowjobs instead of chemotherapy.

We don't have a choice between a great candidate and a terrible candidate. The chance of victory going to someone that a leftist like me will like is, to ten decimal places, 0%.

I gotta choose to push the trolley to Bidenville or Trumptown. It ain't going anywhere else. If I decide not to push it toward the lesser of two evils, I'm complicit in the evils of Trumptown when it arrives there.
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Old 04-09-2020, 06:52 AM
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Biden supporters please get cracking with the reasons why Biden is good.

The lesser of two evils stuff is not going to cut it.
If Trump wins, he'll probably get to replace RBG and maybe Breyer on SCOTUS. Biden would nominate decent judges, rather than corporate-friendly fanatics and shills.
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Old 04-09-2020, 07:40 AM
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I honestly don't understand if she is naive or a Russian asset. Probably both. Pretty sad she is this dumb.
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Old 04-09-2020, 07:51 AM
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Whether Jill Stein is sincere and just really, really dumb, or malevolent (i.e. a Russian/Republican plant), she should be mocked and ignored.
  #171  
Old 04-09-2020, 07:59 AM
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It absolutely does "cut it." If I have to choose between chemotherapy and a slow agonizing death from colon cancer, I'm not gonna demand that my doctor explain why chemotherapy is a lot of fun, and I'm not going to decide to treat myself with cocaine and blowjobs instead of chemotherapy.

We don't have a choice between a great candidate and a terrible candidate. The chance of victory going to someone that a leftist like me will like is, to ten decimal places, 0%.

I gotta choose to push the trolley to Bidenville or Trumptown. It ain't going anywhere else. If I decide not to push it toward the lesser of two evils, I'm complicit in the evils of Trumptown when it arrives there.
for most people it does cut it, but you need to win. Hillary Clinton won 66 million votes. Fine and good, but she needed an additional 80,000 in the northern midwest to win the election.

Biden to his credit doesn't seem to scare people the way Hillary did. So I hope Biden doesn't lose rural whites by as large a margin as Hillary did (but Biden will still lose them). But Democrats need to look for ways to increase turnout among young people, blacks and liberals, especially in the midwest states of MN, MI, WI, PA.

Running on 'at least our candidate isn't Trump' didn't get enough votes to compensate for the unfairness of the electoral college.
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Old 04-09-2020, 08:21 AM
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Here are eight key swing states, showing ev's and an average of recent polls:
NV 6 Biden+4
WI 10 Biden+3
MI 16 Biden+3
NC15 Biden+2
AZ 11 Biden+2
FL 29 Biden+1
PA 20 Trump+2
NH 4 Trump+2
If Biden gets the first four on this list, he'll have 269 ev's total (if my arithmetic is correct), not quite enough.

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If you don't live in a swing state, you can vote Green and not be "helping Trump".
Mr. Drains lives in North Carolina (NC) allegedly. Play around with the above numbers and see that NC is suddenly a very key swing state. Biden can lose PA and FL and AZ and still win the White House with NC and NH!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
As I read this thread, I kept thinking of the iconic line at the end of the great Jack Nicholson movie: "Forget it Jake; it's America."
  #173  
Old 04-09-2020, 08:26 AM
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I'm surprised NC is leaning more to the left than PA. In 2012 Obama won PA by 5.4% and lost NC by 2%.
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  #174  
Old 04-09-2020, 08:36 AM
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for most people it does cut it, but you need to win. Hillary Clinton won 66 million votes. Fine and good, but she needed an additional 80,000 in the northern midwest to win the election.

Biden to his credit doesn't seem to scare people the way Hillary did. So I hope Biden doesn't lose rural whites by as large a margin as Hillary did (but Biden will still lose them). But Democrats need to look for ways to increase turnout among young people, blacks and liberals, especially in the midwest states of MN, MI, WI, PA.

Running on 'at least our candidate isn't Trump' didn't get enough votes to compensate for the unfairness of the electoral college.
I'm not entirely sure what you're getting at here. You seem to be trying to rebut my argument by telling me that my argument won't persuade 100% of the people out there.

Well....no. It won't. But that's not a refutation of the argument's merits, but is rather a meta-observation about how persuading people works.

Of course nobody, including me, is suggesting that this one single point will suffice for winning the 2020 presidential election. I didn't intend to offer it as a magic bullet. I was just offering it to rebut one specific argument against voting for Biden.
  #175  
Old 04-09-2020, 08:53 AM
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Biden supporters please get cracking with the reasons why Biden is good.

The lesser of two evils stuff is not going to cut it.
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Originally Posted by Left Hand of Dorkness View Post
It absolutely does "cut it." If I have to choose between chemotherapy and a slow agonizing death from colon cancer, I'm not gonna demand that my doctor explain why chemotherapy is a lot of fun, and I'm not going to decide to treat myself with cocaine and blowjobs instead of chemotherapy.

We don't have a choice between a great candidate and a terrible candidate. The chance of victory going to someone that a leftist like me will like is, to ten decimal places, 0%.

I gotta choose to push the trolley to Bidenville or Trumptown. It ain't going anywhere else. If I decide not to push it toward the lesser of two evils, I'm complicit in the evils of Trumptown when it arrives there.

Yes, yes, a thousand times yes!

"The lesser of two evils" is a cop-out framing. It implies that there is no discernible difference in outcome between choices.

If you truly believe that a Biden presidency is just as bad as a Trump presidency, then I doubt anything anyone can say will convince you otherwise. But, if you don't think that they are equally awful, then it's not a "lesser of two evils" question. It's simply deciding which is the better option for president.

No candidate is perfect. No candidate will solve all the problems for every constituent.

I ask you, Manwich: tell me why I should prefer at Trump presidency as opposed to a Biden presidency?
  #176  
Old 04-09-2020, 09:01 AM
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I'll throw this quote out as long as it's needed:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebecca Solnit
I think of voting as a chess move, not a valentine. It’s just a little part of the picture of how we make the world.
Biden doesn't earn your vote. I didn't vote for Warren in the primary because I thought she was a good person. Your vote doesn't have little hearts on it; nor is it a trophy that you award your favorite player.

Your vote is an action you can take to nudge the world in a particular direction. You can vote for someone you find loathsome, if you think that by doing so, more people will be able to feed their children healthy food. You can vote for a creepy handsy uncle if he's less likely to put people in cages for fleeing injustice.

No valentines. Play chess.

Edit: Manwich, I encourage you to read Solnit's brilliant article.

Last edited by Left Hand of Dorkness; 04-09-2020 at 09:02 AM.
  #177  
Old 04-09-2020, 09:16 AM
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I'm not entirely sure what you're getting at here. You seem to be trying to rebut my argument by telling me that my argument won't persuade 100% of the people out there.

Well....no. It won't. But that's not a refutation of the argument's merits, but is rather a meta-observation about how persuading people works.

Of course nobody, including me, is suggesting that this one single point will suffice for winning the 2020 presidential election. I didn't intend to offer it as a magic bullet. I was just offering it to rebut one specific argument against voting for Biden.
My point is we tried in 2016 to make 'at least the candidate isn't Trump' as the main motivator for why people should vote. It didn't win. Yes Hillary got 66 million votes, but she needed 67 million.

The question is how do democrats get that final 1-2 million votes they need to win?
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  #178  
Old 04-09-2020, 09:25 AM
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My point is we tried in 2016 to make 'at least the candidate isn't Trump' as the main motivator for why people should vote. It didn't win. Yes Hillary got 66 million votes, but she needed 67 million.

The question is how do democrats get that final 1-2 million votes they need to win?
In 2016 a lot of people thought Donald was some affable showman who would just shake things up. Republicans thought they just needed a guy with enough working digits to sign whatever tax cuts they sent his way. There was a lot of "why not, what do we have to lose?" in the minds of voters. Now 3+ years in, we can see that we elected a psychopathic criminal fascist grifter. It isn't "what do we have to lose?" any more, it's "how the fuck can we afford four more years of this?" The horrors of voting for Donald were quite abstract in 2016, they're very much concrete in 2020.
  #179  
Old 04-09-2020, 09:29 AM
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My point is we tried in 2016 to make 'at least the candidate isn't Trump' as the main motivator for why people should vote.
Who's "we"? No we didn't. It was one argument among very many, as it is here. It's totally false to claim that this was the main motivator, or to lay responsibility for Clinton's loss on this claim.
  #180  
Old 04-09-2020, 09:41 AM
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I'm surprised NC is leaning more to the left than PA. In 2012 Obama won PA by 5.4% and lost NC by 2%.
Yes, this surprised me also. Three polls from early March show Biden as +2, +3 or +4 in North Carolina; while on about the same dates Biden was +6, -2, +0 or +5 in Pennsylvania. But Trump is +2 or +2 in the very recent Pennsylvania polls. So part of the difference is that NC hasn't been polled since Trump had his big Covid-19 boost.

Another part of the explanation: Both Pennsylvania and North Carolina had significant voter suppression programs in 2016. Perhaps the NC program was better at targeting D voters specifically. Since then NC has replaced its R Governor with a D, so the 2020 election should be fairer.

Bottom line — My earlier posts were misguided: It looks like NC may be an easier win for the Ds than Pennsylvania! But NC has 5 fewer ev's than PA, so that leads to a 269-269 electoral college tie in the typical scenario. Tiny New Hampshire suddenly looks very important!

ETA: But let's not get our hopes up. Mr. Drains plans to give NC to Trump out of spite.

Last edited by septimus; 04-09-2020 at 09:44 AM.
  #181  
Old 04-09-2020, 09:48 AM
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I mean don't do more of that, describe the policies of Biden that you like.
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Old 04-09-2020, 09:51 AM
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Yes, Biden should discuss his policies. Thanks for the awesome game plan.
  #183  
Old 04-09-2020, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Wesley Clark View Post
I'm surprised NC is leaning more to the left than PA. In 2012 Obama won PA by 5.4% and lost NC by 2%.
This 7.4% differential had shrunk to just 3.0%(*) in 2016. Rust-belters are increasingly bitter, while the Mid-Atlantic attracts successful younger people?
(* - That 3.0% differential increases to 3.8% if Johnson's votes are allotted to R and Stein's to D.)

Last edited by septimus; 04-09-2020 at 09:53 AM.
  #184  
Old 04-09-2020, 10:06 AM
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I'm not a sophisticated student of US politics, but there's something I don't understand.

If Sanders is conceding to Biden, and Biden is now the presumptive Democratic nominee, what is the benefit to the Democratic party by Sanders remaining on the primary ballot and seeking delegates going forward? Would it not substantially strengthen the party's position for Sanders to back out of the process now and endorse Biden so that the party has a unified appearance both within and outside the party?
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Old 04-09-2020, 10:10 AM
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Biden supporters please get cracking with the reasons why Biden is good.

The lesser of two evils stuff is not going to cut it.
  • Because Biden is able to get from one end of a sentence to the other without digressing into a 40,000 word screed about how great he is.
  • Because Biden has experience with international relationships and will be able to start the critical rebuild of those relationships that Trump has destroyed.
  • Because Biden knows to let the experts lead the way on things like public health.
  • Because Biden is not a self-centered egomaniac more concerned with his ratings and how he is perceived than he is with getting the job done.
  • Because Biden will obey the law and the Constitution when it comes to naming department secretaries and won't fill a cabinet with "acting" secretaries who either don't know anything about the department and its responsibilities or are actively trying to destroy the department.
  • Because Biden will not object to nor block Congress performing its Constitutional oversight function.
  • Because Biden is willing to work with people of the opposite party and has worked with them while in Congress and as Vice President and will not engage in schoolyard bullying and name calling.
  • Because Biden is at least willing to admit when he makes a mistake.
  • Because Biden allows reality to direct his decision making rather than his misinformed gut and wishful thinking.
  • Because Biden will not use the power of the office to bully people inside or outside the country nor will he use it to enrich himself and his family by appointing them to positions they are totally unqualified for.

I could think of more, but seriously, at this point the choices are Trump or Biden and no one in this country except for the cult followers of Trump should need convincing. Why do you?
  #186  
Old 04-09-2020, 10:12 AM
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Biden supporters please get cracking with the reasons why Biden is good.

The lesser of two evils stuff is not going to cut it.
Because he won't appoint Supreme Court justices who support pro-life, anti-immigrant, voter suppression/gerrymandering and corporate personhood stances.

And that should be more than enough for anyone who claims to be liberal or progressive.
  #187  
Old 04-09-2020, 10:28 AM
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If Sanders is conceding to Biden, and Biden is now the presumptive Democratic nominee, what is the benefit to the Democratic party by Sanders remaining on the primary ballot and seeking delegates going forward?
There are a few more things going on at the convention besides nominating the candidate. The platform is hammered out and Sanders believes that he can have more influence in shaping the platform if he carries more delegates. The party can't kick him off the ballot (at least not without awful optics) and by now he'd probably have to stay on anyways due to the deadlines having passed already. It's not ideal for the Democrats but it's not really hurting them either.
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Old 04-09-2020, 10:29 AM
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I'm not a sophisticated student of US politics, but there's something I don't understand.

If Sanders is conceding to Biden, and Biden is now the presumptive Democratic nominee, what is the benefit to the Democratic party by Sanders remaining on the primary ballot and seeking delegates going forward? Would it not substantially strengthen the party's position for Sanders to back out of the process now and endorse Biden so that the party has a unified appearance both within and outside the party?
That is what's happening, Sanders isn't going to seek delegates/votes anymore. However, he'll still be technically on the ballot in the remaining contests, just too much trouble to change them.

You might be confused because they call it "suspending" a campaign rather than outright call it quits? They always do that for legal/financial reasons but it's effectively quitting.
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Old 04-09-2020, 10:30 AM
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Thanks Morgyn. I disagree with some of your points but even if I didn't, I don't think a list of why Biden is more reasonable and obeys norms better than Trump is going to help him win. It just seems like 2016 a over again.

We need to talk about vulnerable people's life threatening concerns right now.
  #190  
Old 04-09-2020, 11:05 AM
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re: Biden policies. If you look at his platform, you'll note it's a more progressive platform than Obama ran on in 2008 or 2012. He would, when he got into office, rebuild the federal government. The EPA would likely benefit the most (State Dept second most). You would have a resurrection of Obama era environmental executive orders. Biden would push for Obama second term goals - such as immigration reform (and he'd end anti-immigration Trump executive orders) and free community college at the least. He would push for a public option to the ACA while re-strengthening it.

Sure, that's not a revolution, but it's going to take one Hell of an effort to get us back to the end of Obama's administration. The foundation needs to be rebuilt.

Last edited by ISiddiqui; 04-09-2020 at 11:06 AM.
  #191  
Old 04-09-2020, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Manwich View Post
We need to talk about vulnerable people's life threatening concerns right now.
Lol, "we"? Two weeks ago you were talking about how Bernie had it all sewn up because Biden was missing in action and wondering if Bernie should pivot to confronting Hillary. Maybe you don't take the lead on campaign strategy.
  #192  
Old 04-09-2020, 11:09 AM
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Thanks Morgyn. I disagree with some of your points but even if I didn't, I don't think a list of why Biden is more reasonable and obeys norms better than Trump is going to help him win. It just seems like 2016 a over again.

We need to talk about vulnerable people's life threatening concerns right now.
Okay. I can visit Biden's website and cut and paste long sections of his plans, but that seems counterproductive. There's 29 different pages linked from there, with plans for everything from climate change to K12 education to Latin America to infrastructure development. Which area are you interested in?
  #193  
Old 04-09-2020, 11:15 AM
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This is interesting: Biden's Agenda for the Catholic Community. I clicked on this, cringing, expecting to see some sop thrown to pro-lifers or anti-SSMarriagers.

Nope. It starts off by describing his own Catholic faith and then frames Catholic concerns with these headers:
Quote:
* Build an economy where everyone comes along and we protect the “least of these
* Respect the dignity of work and give workers back the power to earn what they’re worth
* Ensure that affordable, quality health care is a right for all Americans
* Pursue a humane immigration policy that keeps families together, strengthens our economy, and secures our border
* Serve as stewards of our creation and protect our planet against climate change
I gotta say, I like that.
  #194  
Old 04-09-2020, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Left Hand of Dorkness View Post
Okay. I can visit Biden's website and cut and paste long sections of his plans, but that seems counterproductive. There's 29 different pages linked from there, with plans for everything from climate change to K12 education to Latin America to infrastructure development. Which area are you interested in?
Yes but how many of those principles will Biden happily abandon because he values 'bipartisanship' more than getting things done?

I'm afraid the GOP will keep pressuring him to move further and further rightward in the name of 'bipartisanship' and Biden will happily abandon his voters and abandon democrats in congress to make McConnell happy. He has done it before, as the articles I posted showed.

https://theintercept.com/2019/06/24/...itch-mconnell/

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Biden, who served in the Senate from 1973 to 2009, and as vice president from 2009 until 2017, is now locked in his third Democratic primary contest for the presidential nomination. “The reason he [Biden] has such good relationships with Republicans in the Senate is he never hesitates to put aside the highest priorities of his base in the interests of compromise,” the Republican operative said. “That’s also how you make life difficult in a primary.”
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Last edited by Wesley Clark; 04-09-2020 at 11:29 AM.
  #195  
Old 04-09-2020, 11:31 AM
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Yes but how many of those principles will Biden happily abandon because he values 'bipartisanship' more than getting things done?

I'm afraid the GOP will keep pressuring him to move further and further rightward in the name of 'bipartisanship' and Biden will happily abandon his voters and abandon democrats in congress to make McConnell happy. He has done it before, as the articles I posted showed.
I didn't post that link to show that he's a bedrock of principle. I posted it because Manwich wrote, "describe the policies of Biden that you like."

Yeah, Biden's gonna go veering into territory I dislike, just like Bill Clinton and Barack Obama did. I have no illusions on the matter (I think). My vote is a very small, but crucial, part of how I engage with politics. We also need to be engaging in movement-building and activism that keeps the pressure on him to enact the progressive policies he's espousing now.
  #196  
Old 04-09-2020, 11:32 AM
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Yes! Like stuff from your first post.

No, bad, not like second post.

" affordable, quality health care is a right for all Americans"

It's such a weak waffley statement. Why can't USA do healthcare? Trump will destroy that shit.
  #197  
Old 04-09-2020, 11:33 AM
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You know, at first I thought there's no way in hell that he would. But after a few seconds, you know, on some levels this choice would make a lot of sense and if managed appropriately by Joe ATPTB could form a formidable opponent. And if Biden wins, then Hillary is most likely the President in 2024 or 2028.


I think it makes a lot of sense.
No, just stop it. It makes no sense at all. Hillary shouldn't be allowed within a time zone of the convention and should be exiled to an island with no internet for the rest of the campaign. Nothing against her personally, but she's absolute election poison. (And yes, I know she won the popular vote in 2016. But she lost the election to the least qualified person ever to run.)
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  #198  
Old 04-09-2020, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Manwich View Post
Yes! Like stuff from your first post.

No, bad, not like second post.

" affordable, quality health care is a right for all Americans"

It's such a weak waffley statement. Why can't USA do healthcare? Trump will destroy that shit.
Manwich, you gotta do more work. That was a header from a paragraph on a page that wasn't primarily about health care. I gave you the direct link to his master page of position statements. Did you navigate to the page that's specifically about health care and read it? Taking a header for a paragraph on his page about issues important to Catholics and calling it "waffley" and "weak" is ridiculous.

Edit: Here, I'll even lead you straight to it. Read his position statement on healthcare, in full. You might disagree with it, but it looks neither weak nor waffley to me. I disagree with it, but it's a fully-fleshed-out position that would be a significant improvement over either what we currently have, or over what we'd have under another four years of McConnell/Trump.

Last edited by Left Hand of Dorkness; 04-09-2020 at 11:37 AM.
  #199  
Old 04-09-2020, 11:48 AM
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Talking about tax credits for health care is bad strategy.
  #200  
Old 04-09-2020, 12:09 PM
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Talking about tax credits for health care is bad strategy.
Even if true, so what? Lots of people use bad strategy. How is that relevant to anything?

This election will not turn on nuances of policy (like the primaries didn't) It will turn on the questions competence, decency, and normality. Biden got the nomination because more people thought he could sell that message.

He was practically no one's first choice. But we're not talking Biden v. Romney here, it's Biden v. Trump.
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