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Old 04-14-2020, 05:25 PM
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Details of UK Labour party scheming against Corbyn revealed


https://news.sky.com/story/labour-le...ssier-11972823

Leaked emails and WhatsApp messages discussed how to smear Corbyn as antisemitic and torpedo the party's chances of winning an election with him as leader.

Half of the anitsemitism complaints came from one person. Labour centrists were dismayed at his success in the 2017 election and realised they had to do anything to stop him.

I can't imagine this will lead to much self reflection among those who just went along with the whole Corbyn is a loon / antisemitic thing. I get that it was great ammunition for Zionists and reactionaries but they just shifted the debate so easily. It turned into "Well, Labour is full of antisemites but..." or "Corbyn is fringe left wing loony but..."

Twist is, the phone call was coming from your own house all along.
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Old 04-14-2020, 05:59 PM
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Some of the Corbyn cult are butthurt? That’s not a shock. The PLP wanted him gone, Corbyn lost two elections and there’s no doubt he would have clung to power if 2019 had been closer.
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Old 04-14-2020, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Manwich View Post
https://news.sky.com/story/labour-le...ssier-11972823
I can't imagine this will lead to much self reflection among those who just went along with the whole Corbyn is a loon / antisemitic thing.
Thanks dalej42
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Old 04-14-2020, 06:22 PM
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Corbyn is a loon/anti-semite.
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Old 04-14-2020, 06:27 PM
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Thanks dalej42
Corbyn would have won if it just wasnít for the conspiracy.
Remind him of anybody?
https://youtu.be/udSzNpqstpo
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Old 04-14-2020, 07:00 PM
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Yeah, the absolute gall of US opponents of Sanders to use almost exactly the same tactic of smearing their target as antisemitic was breathtaking. It is so easy to do and the media so willingly goes along with it that the fact that it was baseless (in Corbyn's case) or it was baseless and he's Jewish for fuck's sake didn't really matter.
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Old 04-14-2020, 08:36 PM
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Yeah, the absolute gall of US opponents of Sanders to use almost exactly the same tactic of smearing their target as antisemitic was breathtaking. It is so easy to do and the media so willingly goes along with it that the fact that it was baseless (in Corbyn's case) or it was baseless and he's Jewish for fuck's sake didn't really matter.
Are you claiming that Corbyn himself is Jewish? I can find no evidence that Corbyn has ever claimed a religion. He may support terrorism based on religion but I canít find any claim to support that Corbyn has any religious beliefs.
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Old 04-15-2020, 03:33 AM
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At best it is further proof, if proof were needed, that Corbyn was a massively divisive figure for the Labour party. Claims of anti-semitism were the least of his problems. Those claims never forced him to project an aura of creepy, dismissive, arrogant, peevishness whenever he was on TV or dither and equivocate like a bell-end whenever he had hard questions to answer about comments and actions made in the past, never forced him to keep the company he kept or the appointments he had made.

In any case the report is not published, the content is not known, the manner of its construction is not known and let's remember that it was put together by an outgoing leadership with a vested interest in trying to protect the legacy of a failing leader and hopefully continue the project into the future. Look at the names who signed the open letter. For the sake of the Labour party it would need to be transparently non-partisan and would need to look closely at intereference from all factions equally. Hence Starmer is suggesting precisely that, quite right.

Those who are pushing its conclusions strongly are those who want to stop any further purge of Corbynites and their replacement in the ruling bodies. They want to maintain influence. (and how curious that it gets leaked now eh?)

The OP seems predisposed to agree with the report's conclusion completely. I'm not so trusting of it and given the Corbyn factions behaviours over the previous 5 years this sounds much more like an attempt at salvage and a claim of "not my fault, some big boys did it and ran away". Corbynites were never going to leave quietly, not their style.

A full and completely independent inquiry will be the best way to find out the facts and that is what the current leadership is saying.
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Old 04-15-2020, 04:18 AM
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It's bad to sabotage a party because you don't like the policies its members voted for and think you know better
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Old 04-15-2020, 04:56 AM
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It's bad to sabotage a party because you don't like the policies its members voted for and think you know better
Is that a dig at the Corbyn faction or the other groups?
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Old 04-17-2020, 04:18 AM
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Find out that the Labor party has been white anted by conservatives who admittedly prefer a Tory government and blame the victims for speaking out.
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Old 04-17-2020, 07:09 AM
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Find out that the Labor party has been white anted by conservatives who admittedly prefer a Tory government and blame the victims for speaking out.
Not sure what you are trying to say here. Do you think that is what has happened or what the independent inquiry will find out.

I'm not sure what you mean by "white anted" either.
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Old 04-17-2020, 10:36 AM
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Are you still saying that it was inaccurate?
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Old 04-17-2020, 10:56 AM
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Are you still saying that it was inaccurate?
No. I'm saying we dont know what is in it, nor how it was collected, nor whether any agenda sits behind it, nor why it was leaked. I don't know enough to make a judgement on accuracy one way or the other.

That's why an independant inquiry that is fully transparent would be the best way to progress. When the findings are then made public we'll be able to come to a reasonable conclusion and know what went on.

Are you saying that it is accurate?
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Old 04-17-2020, 11:20 AM
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Yes, calling the press on someone crying on the toilet.

Despicable and you should not defend it.
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Old 04-17-2020, 03:09 PM
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Yes, calling the press on someone crying on the toilet.

Despicable and you should not defend it.
What am I supposedly defending? I literally have no idea what you are talking about.
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Old 04-17-2020, 03:39 PM
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One conspiracy I might believe in is that somehow the UK just happened to have these lunatics in charge of her majesty's opposition during the exact period of history the UK has just gone through. And the country will pay dearly for it.
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Old 04-17-2020, 05:08 PM
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What am I supposedly defending? I literally have no idea what you are talking about.
If you aren't interested in what they did, why would you reply?
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Old 04-17-2020, 05:43 PM
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The British Labour Party was just an incompetent mess under Jeremy Corbyn. This just looks like further proof of that.

Quote:
The investigation, which was completed in the last month of Mr Corbyn's leadership, claimed to have found "no evidence" of antisemitism complaints being treated differently to other forms of complaint, or of current or former staff being "motivated by antisemitic intent".
Inaccurate, and not the first time the Labour Party said this. It boils down to saying there's no anti-semitism because they say there's no anti-semitism.

This made as much sense as Jeremy Corbyn "supporting" Remain. (Nope: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-36633238 ) Much of the blame goes to his hand-picked communications chief, Seamus Milne, who literally sabotaged the Labour Remain side of the referendum. (I hate using the term "sabotage" because it sounds about as rational as chemtrails, but in this case, that's actually what happened.) At best Corbyn simply allowed that to happen, but we all know he wasn't a Remainer.

I'm not seeing any faction within Labour coming out of the last five years looking good. If the Corbynistas keep attacking like this, they will guarantee a second Boris Johnson majority in four or five years.
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Old 04-17-2020, 05:53 PM
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It's bad to sabotage a party because you don't like the policies its members voted for and think you know better
That's almost like Bernie Bros who won't vote for the party's candidate because they know better.
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Old 04-17-2020, 06:26 PM
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That's almost like Bernie Bros who won't vote for the party's candidate because they know better.
Yep, except this time it was attacks from centrists inside the party. They hated that Corbyn was the massive favourite of the party members.
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Old 04-17-2020, 06:29 PM
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I'm not seeing any faction within Labour coming out of the last five years looking good. If the Corbynistas keep attacking like this, they will guarantee a second Boris Johnson majority in four or five years.
It's not OK it happened just because you don't like left wing policies and want neoliberal Labor back.
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Old 04-17-2020, 07:03 PM
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Kinda sounds like Trump blaming the Deep State ó those awful centrists who arenít committed to the bossí agenda!
  #24  
Old 04-18-2020, 03:21 AM
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If you aren't interested in what they did, why would you reply?
You are missing the point by a country mile, I am interested in what happened but I don't trust this report and you haven't even linked to it anyway.

You seem to be a Corbyn supporter so I understand that you are tempted believe the worst of his opponents no matter how spurious or biased. But If you want to know what what actually happened then you should be asking for a transparent and independant inquiry and let it cover the behaviour of all factions without fear or favour.

I'm waiting before I pass judgement because I don't know what happened and I don't trust the way in which this report was constructed, nor the motives of those behind it.
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Old 04-18-2020, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Manwich View Post
https://news.sky.com/story/labour-le...ssier-11972823

Leaked emails and WhatsApp messages discussed how to smear Corbyn as antisemitic and torpedo the party's chances of winning an election with him as leader.

Half of the anitsemitism complaints came from one person. Labour centrists were dismayed at his success in the 2017 election and realised they had to do anything to stop him.

I can't imagine this will lead to much self reflection among those who just went along with the whole Corbyn is a loon / antisemitic thing. I get that it was great ammunition for Zionists and reactionaries but they just shifted the debate so easily. It turned into "Well, Labour is full of antisemites but..." or "Corbyn is fringe left wing loony but..."

Twist is, the phone call was coming from your own house all along.
There's no question that JC was undermined and constantly beleaguered by an absolute shower of self-serving, duplicitous shitehawks from within his own party. That is a matter of record. Where you will see some differences of opinion, though, is on whether this merits anything more than a big So What?

IOW if you're a polarising figure who has no parliamentary power base, so can't maintain party unity and discipline, lacks the personal attributes to lead and take people with him, and can't build a functional parliamentary apparatus, then WTF are you doing there in the first place? The reports surfacing now make for very ugly reading (even allowing for the fact they are largely hearsay atm), but let's face it are largely to be expected when you elect a weak non-politician to lead the labour party.

That all being said, one has to admit to the absolute shithousery at play here. Like I think we can all understand ruthless ambition in a politician - Blair asphyxiating Brown in a surround play, or Gove shanking Johnson in the front, post Cameron. So if a labour politician wanted to do likewise and take a greataxe to JC and his entire rabble of sadness then that is one thing, boldly take the reins and get the show back on the road. Blood, guts and pieces of pancreas bestrewn across the lobby floors.
But what we see here are unelected non-entities not doing their jobs, engaging in filthy business and for what? So Tom Watson (LOL) can pull the strings of the chicken coup?

It's a tragic situation all round and one that any labour party supporter is best off trying to move on from IMHO. I can see how that will be impossible for some and can't fault them for it really - how many extra seats did JC need to get a minority government over the line in 2017, about ten ? That is not many votes at all, 1000s in all likelihood as many were razor thin majorities. Well within reach of a coordinated labour campaign. So some bitter water under the bridge there that KS will need to deal with internally.

Last edited by Busy Scissors; 04-18-2020 at 07:56 PM.
  #26  
Old 04-18-2020, 10:34 PM
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IOW if you're a polarising figure who has no parliamentary power base, so can't maintain party unity and discipline, lacks the personal attributes to lead and take people with him, and can't build a functional parliamentary apparatus, then WTF are you doing there in the first place? The reports surfacing now make for very ugly reading (even allowing for the fact they are largely hearsay atm), but let's face it are largely to be expected when you elect a weak non-politician to lead the labour party.
This. So many times this. In a Westminster parliamentary system, electing the leader by a one-party-member/one-vote system is madness. The leader of the party has to have support from the MPs. Having a leadership system where the rank and file can choose a leader who is opposed by most of the elected MPs is a recipe for disaster. There will be a couple of years of infighting, whether covert or public, and a loss of the general election.
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Old 04-18-2020, 10:59 PM
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This. So many times this. In a Westminster parliamentary system, electing the leader by a one-party-member/one-vote system is madness. The leader of the party has to have support from the MPs. Having a leadership system where the rank and file can choose a leader who is opposed by most of the elected MPs is a recipe for disaster. There will be a couple of years of infighting, whether covert or public, and a loss of the general election.
Letís assume in the USA you could pay $5 to join the Democratic Party and vote for the leader. Thereís no doubt that AOC would be Speaker of the House. And that would be a disaster.
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