Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-14-2020, 10:58 PM
RealFDRdem is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 58

"Let's lose with Joe!" what the 2020 campaign slogan should be


Hey everyone new poster here. I honestly think this is the campaign slogan the DNC should run with. Maybe add "at least he isn't the other guy". How in the world people were convinced that a bumbling mediocrity like Joe Biden, who can't keep his hands off little girls, has pissed off every important Democratic constituency, can't speak a coherent sentence, and was chosen by Obama as VP precisely because he was a relatively conservative Democrat, is the "electable" candidate speaks loudly to the sheep mentality of a large part of the Democratic electorate. If I honestly thought their "electable" candidates were actually electable then I might go along with this mentality. But "electablitiy" seems to boil down to being a militaristic corporate bootlicker who won't rock the boat and I really don't think that's what a majority of Americans are looking for! Every four years I practically beg people not to let the powers that be turn their brains to mush and every four years I see a somewhat glazed-eye look that tries to tell me that the corporate and DNC anointed "moderate" is the electable one more or less because that's what they're told. Critical thinking skills seem to be in short supply these days. One has to go back 50 years for the liberal boogeyman loser but the safe moderate loser happens all the time.
  #2  
Old 04-14-2020, 11:06 PM
Smapti is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Olympia, WA
Posts: 16,927
...So you'll be voting for Trump, then?
  #3  
Old 04-14-2020, 11:13 PM
Happy Fun Ball is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: The down hill slope
Posts: 3,216
Quote:
Originally Posted by RealFDRdem View Post
Hey everyone new poster here. I honestly think this is the campaign slogan the DNC should run with. Maybe add "at least he isn't the other guy". How in the world people were convinced that a bumbling mediocrity like Joe Biden, who can't keep his hands off little girls, has pissed off every important Democratic constituency, can't speak a coherent sentence, and was chosen by Obama as VP precisely because he was a relatively conservative Democrat, is the "electable" candidate speaks loudly to the sheep mentality of a large part of the Democratic electorate. If I honestly thought their "electable" candidates were actually electable then I might go along with this mentality. But "electablitiy" seems to boil down to being a militaristic corporate bootlicker who won't rock the boat and I really don't think that's what a majority of Americans are looking for! Every four years I practically beg people not to let the powers that be turn their brains to mush and every four years I see a somewhat glazed-eye look that tries to tell me that the corporate and DNC anointed "moderate" is the electable one more or less because that's what they're told. Critical thinking skills seem to be in short supply these days. One has to go back 50 years for the liberal boogeyman loser but the safe moderate loser happens all the time.
Da, preach it comrade! We of the democrat party must do better in choosing party leader.
  #4  
Old 04-14-2020, 11:19 PM
Nonsuch is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Portland, OR, USA
Posts: 5,897
Please link to previous posts of you practically begging people.
  #5  
Old 04-14-2020, 11:40 PM
RealFDRdem is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smapti View Post
...So you'll be voting for Trump, then?
Of course not. I live in a safe state so I have the freedom to vote my conscience by either voting Green or writing in Bernie. If I lived in a swing state I would vote for Biden. But I wouldn't knock on any doors for him, I wouldn't passionately try to get others to vote for him, and I certainly won't send him any money. He gets enough from the corporations that have made him their stooge.

Last edited by RealFDRdem; 04-14-2020 at 11:40 PM.
  #6  
Old 04-14-2020, 11:42 PM
RealFDRdem is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nonsuch View Post
Please link to previous posts of you practically begging people.
Um did you see the "new poster here" part? I don't live on the internet I actually talk to people in person.
  #7  
Old 04-14-2020, 11:44 PM
RealFDRdem is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 58
The truth of the matter which should be obvious to anyone paying attention is that the establishment democrats would rather lose with Biden than win with Bernie (or any real progressive). Many of them know they would be shown the door when the party of FDR rises again.
  #8  
Old 04-14-2020, 11:49 PM
AHunter3's Avatar
AHunter3 is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: NY (Manhattan) NY USA
Posts: 21,241
Until we get ranked choice voting this is what you get. Voters afraid of voting for their first choice because they sense that someone else they could at least stomach stands a better chance of winning in the general election.

Be that as it may, Sanders came with his own baggage. If I'd been a ranked choice voter in the Dem primaries I'd have cast Liz Warren#1, Bernie Sanders #2, probably Amy Klobuchar #3.
  #9  
Old 04-15-2020, 12:09 AM
Johnny Bravo's Avatar
Johnny Bravo is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: The Swamp
Posts: 7,997
"Of course I would vote for Biden if I wasn't in a safe state. But I am, so instead I'll run around trying to convince everyone I can reach that Biden is a sack of shit who nobody should vote for."

Uh huh.
  #10  
Old 04-15-2020, 12:18 AM
RealFDRdem is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Bravo View Post
"Of course I would vote for Biden if I wasn't in a safe state. But I am, so instead I'll run around trying to convince everyone I can reach that Biden is a sack of shit who nobody should vote for."

Uh huh.
I never said nobody should vote for him, if I lived in a swing state I would hold my nose and do just that. But when someone is a cheerleader for the Iraq War, in the pocket of credit card companies, and kicks off his campaign in the home of a Comcast exec (I could go on and on - and will if need be) then "sack of shit" might be not far off the mark. My argument is that he's a terrible candidate that I expect to lose, just as I expected Hillary and Kerry to lose. I was belittled constantly in 2016 for sticking to that and told over and over that the my detractors would have the last laugh. I admitted she might win the popular vote but was almost sure to lose the electoral college (it was much closer than I expected). We all know how that turned out... People need something to vote for to show up at the polls, not just something to vote against.
  #11  
Old 04-15-2020, 12:26 AM
wolfpup's Avatar
wolfpup is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 11,731
Quote:
Originally Posted by RealFDRdem View Post
The truth of the matter which should be obvious to anyone paying attention is that the establishment democrats would rather lose with Biden than win with Bernie
Or maybe most of them can read polls and understand demographics, and would prefer to win with Biden rather than lose with Bernie, even if Bernie is their ideological preference.
  #12  
Old 04-15-2020, 12:52 AM
septimus's Avatar
septimus is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the Land of Smiles
Posts: 21,525
Dear newcomer, Please accompany your screed(s) with citations. It will aid our understanding to learn where you get your ideas.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RealFDRdem View Post
... How in the world people were convinced that a bumbling mediocrity like Joe Biden, who can't keep his hands off little girls, has pissed off every important Democratic constituency, can't speak a coherent sentence, ... the sheep mentality ... a militaristic corporate bootlicker ... the powers that be turn their brains to mush ... Critical thinking skills seem to be in short supply these days. ....
But has he stopped beating his wife? And why did this "militaristic" vote against the 1991 war? Was he encouraging Saddam to invade Saudi because he wanted an even bigger war?

I do agree with your comment about thinking; but my advice is to defer the effort of thinking: First improve your fact-finding.

This source ranks Biden as more liberal than about 3/4 of Senators during his terms in the Senate. Here's a source that gives a variety of ratings:

If he was a "corporate bootlicker" somewhat forgot to tell the corporate-bootlicking organizations that rank politicians:
Quote:
American Shareholders Association 30% 2004
Fiscally Conservative Americans for Prosperity 0% 2007-2008
Americans for Tax Reform 0% 2007
Competitive Enterprise Institute 0% 1994
FreedomWorks 0% 2007
GOPUSA 0% 2008
National Journal 0% 2008
National Tax Limitation Committee F 2008
National Taxpayers Union F 2007
Partnership for America 0% 2005-2006
Republican Liberty Caucus 0% 2007
The Cato Institute 0% 2003-2004
The Club for Growth 0% 2008
Do the following ratings look like those of a man out to destroy SocSec?
Quote:
National Committee to Preserve Social Security and Medicare 100% 2001-2002
National Council of Senior Citizens 90% 2000
Here are some of his Civil Rights ratings:
Quote:
American Civil Liberties Union 91% 2007-2008
Americans for Democratic Action 80% 2008
Common Cause 100% 2001
Global Exchange 100% 2006-2012
Human Rights Campaign 95% 2007-2008
League of United Latin American Citizens 100% 2003-2004
League of Women Voters 100% 2007
National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP) 100% 2005-2006
National Organization for Women 100% 2007-2008
People for the American Way 85% 2001-2002
The Public Affairs Alliance of Iranian Americans 100% 2005-2006
UnidosUS (formerly known as National Council of La Raza) 100% 2005
United To End Genocide (formerly known as the Save Darfur Coalition and Genocide Intervention Network) A+ 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by RealFDRdem View Post
The truth of the matter which should be obvious to anyone paying attention is that the establishment democrats would rather lose with Biden than win with Bernie (or any real progressive). Many of them know they would be shown the door when the party of FDR rises again.
So you think the "establishment democrats" opposed Sanders out of fear he would defeat Trump? And are happy with Biden, thinking it may mean Trump victory? It sounds like acceptance of Trump victory is one thing you and the "establishment" have in common.
  #13  
Old 04-15-2020, 12:55 AM
DWMarch is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Nanaimo, BC
Posts: 2,205
I support progressive causes in general and I would like to see Democrats embracing more progressive policies. However, as a Canadian I have noticed that in America, "socialism" is a very dirty, scary word. I have also noticed that Republicans do not hesitate to take advantage of this fear by labeling everything in the Democratic platform one kind of socialism or another. They have convinced enough people that if the US embraces any progressive causes the country instantly turns into Venezuela. The United States of America is not ready for a progressive candidate yet. The closest you will get is someone like Trump, whose idea of "progressive" is to steal anything not nailed down and burn the rest.

Speaking of the burn, did you see what happened with Bernie? He won a primary or two and this funny math started appearing. Pundits said "well, if you combine all the other candidates together, Bernie actually lost." And what happened a week later? All the other candidates did combine (by dropping out) and Bernie lost. It should not have been a surprise that the anti-establishment guy got stomped out by the establishment. It's not a bug, it's a feature. But I see Bernie and Biden making nice and I hope that any bad blood between their camps can be set aside for now because defeating Trump is the only thing that should matter. While it may be true that Biden won't be the progressive champion America needs, he will restore sanity to a government where it is currently in very short supply. I think that is literally the most you can hope for right now.
  #14  
Old 04-15-2020, 02:22 AM
Lamoral's Avatar
Lamoral is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Fenario
Posts: 3,419
Biden's weakness as a candidate has absolutely nothing to do with his policies - nothing at all to do with his policies - it's everything to do with his total lack of personal charisma. Most Americans don't give a flying fuck what the guy's policies are.
  #15  
Old 04-15-2020, 02:24 AM
RealFDRdem is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfpup View Post
Or maybe most of them can read polls and understand demographics, and would prefer to win with Biden rather than lose with Bernie, even if Bernie is their ideological preference.
How did those polls work out in 2016?
  #16  
Old 04-15-2020, 02:27 AM
Broomstick's Avatar
Broomstick is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NW Indiana
Posts: 30,541
Quote:
Originally Posted by RealFDRdem View Post
Um did you see the "new poster here" part? I don't live on the internet I actually talk to people in person.
You joined this forum on 4/14/20 - in other words, literally just yesterday as I write this - so far the only thing you have done is claim to be a Democrat and then blast the leading candidate as a loser and unelectable. Uh huh.

How much are the Republicans paying you to post here?

Sure, insisting on in-person voting during a global pandemic while shutting down most polling places in urban places looked like a good prospect for your team to win, but it turns out a crapload of Democrats showed up anyway despite the risk of illness and/or potential death to vote your party's candidates down. I get it - it seemed like a surefire way to win and now you're floundering around in desperation, including attempting to undermine confidence on what is perceived to be a liberal forum on the internet. I get it - you're trying to make a bale of hay and straw is in short supply these days so you're grasping at every single one.

But by and large we're smarter here than Fox News watchers and Walmartians. You're going to have be slightly less obvious about what you're doing.
  #17  
Old 04-15-2020, 02:29 AM
RealFDRdem is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by septimus View Post
Dear newcomer, Please accompany your screed(s) with citations. It will aid our understanding to learn where you get your ideas.



But has he stopped beating his wife? And why did this "militaristic" vote against the 1991 war? Was he encouraging Saddam to invade Saudi because he wanted an even bigger war?

I do agree with your comment about thinking; but my advice is to defer the effort of thinking: First improve your fact-finding.

This source ranks Biden as more liberal than about 3/4 of Senators during his terms in the Senate. Here's a source that gives a variety of ratings:

If he was a "corporate bootlicker" somewhat forgot to tell the corporate-bootlicking organizations that rank politicians:

Do the following ratings look like those of a man out to destroy SocSec?

Here are some of his Civil Rights ratings:


So you think the "establishment democrats" opposed Sanders out of fear he would defeat Trump? And are happy with Biden, thinking it may mean Trump victory? It sounds like acceptance of Trump victory is one thing you and the "establishment" have in common.
There are many things to address here but lets just get this last sentence out of the way. Don't worry I'll be back to address some other points (especially the ridiculous idea of listing Republican/conservative organizations rating of ANY Democrat. And the fact that you slipped in that he was more liberal than "about" 75% of senators - which would put him at best in the middle of the Democratic party ideologically, probably somewhat in the bottom half). Of course they would rather win with Biden but if the choice is between winning with Bernie or losing with Joe, they'll pick losing with Joe every time.
  #18  
Old 04-15-2020, 02:35 AM
RealFDRdem is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Broomstick View Post
You joined this forum on 4/14/20 - in other words, literally just yesterday as I write this - so far the only thing you have done is claim to be a Democrat and then blast the leading candidate as a loser and unelectable. Uh huh.

How much are the Republicans paying you to post here?

Sure, insisting on in-person voting during a global pandemic while shutting down most polling places in urban places looked like a good prospect for your team to win, but it turns out a crapload of Democrats showed up anyway despite the risk of illness and/or potential death to vote your party's candidates down. I get it - it seemed like a surefire way to win and now you're floundering around in desperation, including attempting to undermine confidence on what is perceived to be a liberal forum on the internet. I get it - you're trying to make a bale of hay and straw is in short supply these days so you're grasping at every single one.

But by and large we're smarter here than Fox News watchers and Walmartians. You're going to have be slightly less obvious about what you're doing.
Right Broomstick, I'm just a Republican troll here to bad-mouth that champion of the left - Joe Biden. Apparently you're not nearly as smart as you think. Given the choices of course I want Biden to win, I just don't think he will. For that matter I don't think Bernie would have been a shoo-in this year either. In 2016 I would have put Bernie's chances at 85%+. This year maybe 50-60%, due to his increased age and the power of incumbency. Biden, on the other hand perhaps 20%.
  #19  
Old 04-15-2020, 02:37 AM
RealFDRdem is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 58
It always amazes me how people can be proven wrong virtually every four years and still act like they know what they're talking about...
  #20  
Old 04-15-2020, 02:41 AM
RealFDRdem is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 58
I think it's fairly obvious that people thought Obama was further to the left in 2008, which is why he won. I think it was his personal charisma, his skills as a politician, and the power of incumbency that was responsible for his 2012 victory. It just FELT good when Obama was president. But there were many policies that would have caused howls if they came from a Republican.
  #21  
Old 04-15-2020, 03:27 AM
RealFDRdem is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 58
One place I will give credit where it is due is that regardless of his policies, Biden is actually treating the left and Bernie with some respect (Unlike Hillary). We'll see if this goes beyond tone and reaches into believable substance (such as his VP pick) and just maybe he'll be able to squeak this out. But if he doesn't will you "moderates" please look in the mirror and admit that you were wrong, rather than trying to blame Russia, "Bernie Bros", or whoever else you feel takes the responsibility off your shoulders?
  #22  
Old 04-15-2020, 03:32 AM
septimus's Avatar
septimus is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the Land of Smiles
Posts: 21,525
For most of us, Biden was never a first choice. I liked Elizabeth Warren, but eventually it was apparent she wasn't attracting voters — I blame the stupidity of the American voter.

For me, Sanders' left-wing policies were never a problem. They wouldn't be enacted anyway. (Improved health-care funding is MORE likely to happen under a moderate who can unite than under a leftist who will frighten moderates.)

The reason we settled on Biden is: Rightly or wrongly, we think his chances will be better than Bernie's in November. Your reversal of this fact shows great ignorance and confusion. Opiners were stating this reasoning quite clearly: Do you think they were all lying? Is there some hidden cabal, invisible to top politicos, with the motives you ascribe?

Many MANY Americans, rightly or wrongly, despise the idea of socialism and, while eager to vote for a Democratic moderate, would never vote for Sanders after the GOP-Kremlin propaganda blitz that would be launched. Capische?

And I read that 15% of Bernie supporters will vote for Trump. It sounds like you are also implicitly advising those who read your newsletter to let Trump win. This is what is so astounding about you Bernie supporters. In a restaurant where only meatloaf and dogshit are on the menu, you tell the waiter: "No lobster thermidor? Well then, bring me either the meatloaf or the dogshit — it doesn't matter."
  #23  
Old 04-15-2020, 03:58 AM
septimus's Avatar
septimus is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the Land of Smiles
Posts: 21,525
Quote:
Originally Posted by RealFDRdem View Post
... (especially the ridiculous idea of listing Republican/conservative organizations rating of ANY Democrat.
Whatever that means. You're unhappy that the Competitive Enterprise Institute rated Senator Biden at 0%? Or you think all D's get the Zero?
Here are CEI's latest ratings: Note one Minnesota Democratic Congressman gets 46%.

Quote:
And the fact that you slipped in that he was more liberal than "about" 75% of senators - which would put him at best in the middle of the Democratic party ideologically, probably somewhat in the bottom half).
Almost right. The more liberal than "about" 75% (Why did you need the extra quote marks?) is "almost"() synonymous with "exactly median Democrat" in these partisan days. As shown at the link. I could have phrased it either way, but thought you might click the link if you cared enough to attempt arithmetic.

But, what in tarnation is so horridly wrong with the D's picking as their candidate someone who's in the middle of the D's on the issues? Yes, we get that the leftists would prefer a leftist. And the blue-dogs would prefer a blue-dog. I'm in the (fringe?) camp that prefers a candidate who might win in November. Is that so unspeakably mushy-brained?

Last edited by septimus; 04-15-2020 at 03:59 AM.
  #24  
Old 04-15-2020, 05:56 AM
Smapti is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Olympia, WA
Posts: 16,927
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smapti View Post
...So you'll be voting for Trump, then?
Quote:
Originally Posted by RealFDRdem View Post
Of course not. I live in a safe state so I have the freedom to vote my conscience by either voting Green or writing in Bernie.
...So you'll be voting for Trump, then.

Last edited by Smapti; 04-15-2020 at 05:58 AM.
  #25  
Old 04-15-2020, 06:35 AM
AK84 is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 17,021
This is one of the reasons why we are a collapsing board. Can we not devour the newbies? Broomstick sheesh.
  #26  
Old 04-15-2020, 06:41 AM
Jonathan Chance is offline
Domo Arigato Mister Moderato
Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: On the run with Kilroy
Posts: 23,668
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Fun Ball View Post
Da, preach it comrade! We of the democrat party must do better in choosing party leader.
That'll earn you a warning, Happy Fun Ball. Per the new sticky it's forbidden to call people Russian trolls or bots or whatever. Please don't do it again.
  #27  
Old 04-15-2020, 06:43 AM
Jonathan Chance is offline
Domo Arigato Mister Moderato
Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: On the run with Kilroy
Posts: 23,668

The Moderator Speaks


Quote:
Originally Posted by Broomstick View Post
How much are the Republicans paying you to post here?
And this will earn you a warning, Broomstick. Please do not insult other posters nor accuse them of lying.
  #28  
Old 04-15-2020, 06:45 AM
Jonathan Chance is offline
Domo Arigato Mister Moderato
Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: On the run with Kilroy
Posts: 23,668

The Moderator Speaks


All of that said, I think the OP counts more as a rant than anything else. I'll send it off to The BBQ Pit and make it Miller's problem.
  #29  
Old 04-15-2020, 06:48 AM
BobLibDem is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Home 07 NCAA HockeyChamps
Posts: 22,347
Biden's chances are infinitely better than Bernie's. You simply cannot win as a Democrat without significant turnout among blacks. Bernie has been unable to improve his standing with minorities and once it got down to a two person race he had no chance. Had he been the nominee, minority turnout would be tepid at best. Biden's policies are plenty liberal for me without going into whack-a-doodle it'll never happen territory. Biden will achieve positive change, how much will depend on whether Turtle McTurtleface is still Majority Leader.
  #30  
Old 04-15-2020, 06:59 AM
asahi's Avatar
asahi is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: On your computer screen
Posts: 13,259
Quote:
Originally Posted by RealFDRdem View Post
Of course not. I live in a safe state so I have the freedom to vote my conscience by either voting Green or writing in Bernie. If I lived in a swing state I would vote for Biden. But I wouldn't knock on any doors for him, I wouldn't passionately try to get others to vote for him, and I certainly won't send him any money. He gets enough from the corporations that have made him their stooge.
You basically acknowledged that Biden is a better choice than Trump, but you instead devote time and energy to mocking Biden and not attacking the greater of two evils.

You're either a troll or a Trump supporter.
  #31  
Old 04-15-2020, 07:15 AM
septimus's Avatar
septimus is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the Land of Smiles
Posts: 21,525
I've decided to convert this thread into a Poll. Those who answer 'No' on Question 1 are ineligible to answer Questions 2 & 3.

Question 1: Have you watched this video?
⧠ Yes.
⧠ Loved it! I skipped the first 90 seconds to get to the political message.
⧠ Didn't need to. Already caught the 2-minute excerpt on cable news.
⧠ Of course not. My mind's already made up.

Question 2: Compare your credentials with the speaker in the video.
⧠ It's close, but the opinion of the 44th President of the United States is worthier than mine.
⧠ I'm smarter than fatso on The Young Turks. Who's this guy with the funny ears?
⧠ That guy orchestrated the Massacre in Benghazi. I never did that.

Question 3: Did the video change your mind about anything?
⧠ I was already a strong Biden supporter. The video made me even more fervent.
⧠ Obama, Trump, Biden — they're all the same. I'm still planning to write-in Lady Gaga for President.
⧠ Is this question a joke? Do you have a cite that anything posted at SDMB has ever changed anyone's mind?
  #32  
Old 04-15-2020, 07:15 AM
QuickSilver's Avatar
QuickSilver is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 21,266
Quote:
Originally Posted by asahi View Post
You basically acknowledged that Biden is a better choice than Trump, but you instead devote time and energy to mocking Biden and not attacking the greater of two evils.

You're either a troll or a Trump supporter.
Nah, he's just a Sandersnista who needs time to heal so he can finally stop trying to make Bernie happen. Grief is a multi-step process. I think this is the anger stage.
__________________
St. QuickSilver: Patron Saint of Thermometers.
  #33  
Old 04-15-2020, 07:45 AM
Unreconstructed Man is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 685
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfpup View Post
Or maybe most of them can read polls and understand demographics, and would prefer to win with Biden rather than lose with Bernie, even if Bernie is their ideological preference.
Those polls are Biden vs Bernie, not Biden vs Trump and Bernie vs Trump.

And the biggest reason why Biden beats Bernie in those head-to-heads is because people think Biden is more “electable”. That is to say, group A supports Biden because they think group B supports him, and group B supports Biden because they think group A supports him. No-one particularly wants him on his merits, which is why he’ll run an anaemic campaign that won’t excite anyone, and that, in turn, is why he’s going to get steamrollered by Donald Trump.
  #34  
Old 04-15-2020, 07:48 AM
Unreconstructed Man is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 685
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobLibDem View Post
Biden's chances are infinitely better than Bernie's. You simply cannot win as a Democrat without significant turnout among blacks.
Jesus...blacks only support him because they think whites’ll support him!. If blacks and white liberals actually voted for who they fucking WANTED rather than who they think the other group will vote for we wouldn’t be in this mess.

This is what happens when liberals try to be smart
  #35  
Old 04-15-2020, 08:10 AM
QuickSilver's Avatar
QuickSilver is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 21,266
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unreconstructed Man View Post
Jesus...blacks only support him because they think whites’ll support him!. If blacks and white liberals actually voted for who they fucking WANTED rather than who they think the other group will vote for we wouldn’t be in this mess.

This is what happens when liberals try to be smart
Stop trying to justify why Bernie lost the black vote. Given the choice between two old white men, they went with the more moderate candidate. Black voters, particularly in the south, are more conservative than you wish they were. The entire fucking country is more moderate than you wish it to be. THAT is why we're in this mess. Not because people refuse to vote their conscience.
__________________
St. QuickSilver: Patron Saint of Thermometers.
  #36  
Old 04-15-2020, 08:13 AM
Ike Witt's Avatar
Ike Witt is online now
Charter Member
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Lost in the mists of time
Posts: 15,574
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Chance View Post
That'll earn you a warning, Happy Fun Ball. Per the new sticky it's forbidden to call people Russian trolls or bots or whatever. Please don't do it again.
Can you please point to this? I have just looked and I do not see any new sticky talking about Russian trolls.
  #37  
Old 04-15-2020, 08:14 AM
naita is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Norway
Posts: 6,990
Okay, let us repeat this for anyone with brains still participating in this thread.
  • Username RealFDRDemocrat
  • Joined literally yesterday
  • Immediately posted this thread

Do you really still think it's worth participating? I mean, being quarantined is boring, but ... really?
  #38  
Old 04-15-2020, 08:19 AM
QuickSilver's Avatar
QuickSilver is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 21,266
Quote:
Originally Posted by naita View Post
Okay, let us repeat this for anyone with brains still participating in this thread.
  • Username RealFDRDemocrat
  • Joined literally yesterday
  • Immediately posted this thread

Do you really still think it's worth participating? I mean, being quarantined is boring, but ... really?
What, you don't believe he voted for FDR?
__________________
St. QuickSilver: Patron Saint of Thermometers.
  #39  
Old 04-15-2020, 08:32 AM
Jophiel's Avatar
Jophiel is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Chicago suburbia
Posts: 20,033
Quote:
Originally Posted by RealFDRdem View Post
How did those polls work out in 2016?
Pretty well, actually. Clinton won the popular vote by the amount suggested by national polls. She lost the Rust Belt states within the Margin of Error. The issue wasn't the polls, it was that she assumed WI, MI, PA were safe and didn't react to moving poll numbers there. The Trump campaign DID make a big push for those states in the final weeks because, again, they saw the polling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lamoral View Post
Biden's weakness as a candidate has absolutely nothing to do with his policies - nothing at all to do with his policies - it's everything to do with his total lack of personal charisma.
That's a pretty bizarre estimation, in my view. Biden has always been a well liked guy which was a big part of his work with Congress. People liked him and trusted him and felt respected by him. He has a way of not only having people like him but also making people feel like Biden likes them.

Obviously it's not universal and people opposed to his policies are going to try to bang the "Creepy Joe!" drum but saying the guy lacks charisma is sort of boggling.

Last edited by Jophiel; 04-15-2020 at 08:33 AM.
  #40  
Old 04-15-2020, 08:33 AM
Morgyn is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: In the time stream
Posts: 6,215
Quote:
Originally Posted by RealFDRdem View Post
Of course not. I live in a safe state so I have the freedom to vote my conscience by either voting Green or writing in Bernie. If I lived in a swing state I would vote for Biden. But I wouldn't knock on any doors for him, I wouldn't passionately try to get others to vote for him, and I certainly won't send him any money. He gets enough from the corporations that have made him their stooge.
Then you're a fool. Last election people thought PA was safe, so I know a number of people who did just what you're proposing to do.

Trump won in PA.

Fuck your holier than thou, gotta be a pure unicorn or I just won't have it, even if Bernie DID say vote for Biden, attitude. If Trump wins again, it'll be because of people like YOU. You're not getting married to him, so the fact that he doesn't check all your boxes or doesn't "inspire" you doesn't matter one whit. Keeping Trump OUT does.
  #41  
Old 04-15-2020, 08:52 AM
John DiFool's Avatar
John DiFool is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 18,686
So, the new poster is, at a minimum, 97 years old (had to be at least 21 in 1944 to vote for FDR...).
  #42  
Old 04-15-2020, 08:59 AM
dalej42 is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 16,469
Quote:
Originally Posted by RealFDRdem View Post
Hey everyone new poster here. I honestly think this is the campaign slogan the DNC should run with. Maybe add "at least he isn't the other guy". How in the world people were convinced that a bumbling mediocrity like Joe Biden, who can't keep his hands off little girls, has pissed off every important Democratic constituency, can't speak a coherent sentence, and was chosen by Obama as VP precisely because he was a relatively conservative Democrat, is the "electable" candidate speaks loudly to the sheep mentality of a large part of the Democratic electorate. If I honestly thought their "electable" candidates were actually electable then I might go along with this mentality. But "electablitiy" seems to boil down to being a militaristic corporate bootlicker who won't rock the boat and I really don't think that's what a majority of Americans are looking for! Every four years I practically beg people not to let the powers that be turn their brains to mush and every four years I see a somewhat glazed-eye look that tries to tell me that the corporate and DNC anointed "moderate" is the electable one more or less because that's what they're told. Critical thinking skills seem to be in short supply these days. One has to go back 50 years for the liberal boogeyman loser but the safe moderate loser happens all the time.
Now that we’re in the Pit, I’ll call you a troll and a rather pathetic one at that. Even the whiniest Bernie Bro on Twitter can generally use proper English.
__________________
Twitter:@Stardales IG:@Dalej42 He/Him/His
  #43  
Old 04-15-2020, 09:09 AM
septimus's Avatar
septimus is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the Land of Smiles
Posts: 21,525
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morgyn View Post
Then you're a fool. Last election people thought PA was safe, so I know a number of people who did just what you're proposing to do.

Trump won in PA.
I was screaming about PA's importance. I started in October 2015, 13 months before the election:

Quote:
Originally Posted by septimus View Post
Pennsylvania is surely "in play." If the GOP can win it somehow, they win the White House. If they lose Pennsylvania, along with every state that had a smaller GOP percentage vote in 2012 than Pennsylvania had, they lose the White House. Just like its nickname implies, Pennsylvania is the Key stone for this election.

That's not to say GOP victory is impossible without Pennsylvania. If the election is close, you may assume that GOP will take North Carolina, Ohio, and Florida. Given those states and Virginia, they'd only need one more swing state; it wouldn't have to be the Keystone State. Tiny New Hampshire would push them over, as would any of Colorado, Iowa, Nevada, Minnesota, or Wisconsin. (With neither Pennsylvania nor Virginia, the GOP would probably have to win at least three other swing states.)

TL;DR: Don't let your guard down. November 2016 still looks like a coin-toss. Complacency in Pennsylvania would be a huge mistake.
I was immediately rebuked:
Quote:
Originally Posted by RTFirefly View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by septimus View Post
Just like its nickname implies, Pennsylvania is the Key stone for this election.
I disagree. ... Pennsylvania's size and relative consistency in demographic terms make it unlikely that Pennsylvania is winnable for the Republicans in anything less than a pretty substantial GOP win.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElvisL1ves View Post
The only way they win it is if they benefit from a large enough national tide "somehow" that makes it irrelevant. PA is not in play except to the extent the nation is in play.
Over the next 12 months, I continued to point out that Pennsylvania was the key tipping state. (Nothing arcane about the deduction: it was self-evident to anyone who understood Nate Silver's graphics.) Nobody ever agreed with me, but many disagreed.

Sorry, folks. I feel like my services are wasted here.
  #44  
Old 04-15-2020, 09:10 AM
iiandyiiii's Avatar
iiandyiiii is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 37,855
I have a suspicion that this "new poster" may not actually be a new poster. But it's just a suspicion... anyone else share it?
  #45  
Old 04-15-2020, 09:28 AM
kaylasdad99 is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Anaheim, CA
Posts: 33,231
Quote:
Originally Posted by septimus View Post
I've decided to convert this thread into a Poll. Those who answer 'No' on Question 1 are ineligible to answer Questions 2 & 3.

Question 1: Have you watched this video?
⧠ Yes.
⧠ Loved it! I skipped the first 90 seconds to get to the political message.
⧠ Didn't need to. Already caught the 2-minute excerpt on cable news.
⧠ Of course not. My mind's already made up.

Question 2: Compare your credentials with the speaker in the video.
⧠ It's close, but the opinion of the 44th President of the United States is worthier than mine.
⧠ I'm smarter than fatso on The Young Turks. Who's this guy with the funny ears?
⧠ That guy orchestrated the Massacre in Benghazi. I never did that.

Question 3: Did the video change your mind about anything?
⧠ I was already a strong Biden supporter. The video made me even more fervent.
⧠ Obama, Trump, Biden — they're all the same. I'm still planning to write-in Lady Gaga for President.
⧠ Is this question a joke? Do you have a cite that anything posted at SDMB has ever changed anyone's mind?
Ummm, your poll isn't working for me. Also, is it even POSSIBLE to insert a Poll into the middle of an existing thread (okay, when you posted that, it was actually on the END of an established thread, but still)?

That said, that was a really good speech.
  #46  
Old 04-15-2020, 09:33 AM
Jackmannii's Avatar
Jackmannii is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: the extreme center
Posts: 33,400
Quote:
Originally Posted by Broomstick View Post
How much are the Republicans paying you to post here?
The G.O.P. is pouring millions of dollars into influencing obscure, largely left-wing message boards.

Be very afraid.
  #47  
Old 04-15-2020, 09:51 AM
Mind's Eye, Watering is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,605
Quote:
Originally Posted by RealFDRdem View Post
Of course not. I live in a safe state so I have the freedom to vote my conscience by either voting Green or writing in Bernie. If I lived in a swing state I would vote for Biden. But I wouldn't knock on any doors for him, I wouldn't passionately try to get others to vote for him, and I certainly won't send him any money. He gets enough from the corporations that have made him their stooge.
Traitor Trump (R - Impeached) appreciates your continued support, MAGAtrash.
  #48  
Old 04-15-2020, 10:00 AM
Great Antibob is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5,723
Quote:
Originally Posted by iiandyiiii View Post
I have a suspicion that this "new poster" may not actually be a new poster. But it's just a suspicion... anyone else share it?
I know I'm somehow in the mood for a Sloppy Joe.
  #49  
Old 04-15-2020, 11:38 AM
asahi's Avatar
asahi is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: On your computer screen
Posts: 13,259
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackmannii View Post
The G.O.P. is pouring millions of dollars into influencing obscure, largely left-wing message boards.

Be very afraid.
Not just obscure, largely left-wing message boards but ones that frequently time out.
  #50  
Old 04-15-2020, 11:45 AM
septimus's Avatar
septimus is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the Land of Smiles
Posts: 21,525
Quote:
Originally Posted by asahi View Post
Not just obscure, largely left-wing message boards but ones that frequently time out.
Maybe if we promised to be nicer to the trolls, the Kremlin would help finance our upgrade.
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:35 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@straightdope.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Copyright © 2019 STM Reader, LLC.

 
Copyright © 2017