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Old 04-19-2020, 01:37 PM
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Trump voters are most of the people upset about staying at home


So if they go out and get sick and die I won't shed many tears. How about you?
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Old 04-19-2020, 01:50 PM
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If they only harmed themselves, then I wouldn't be too upset. A "self-limiting problem," as they say.

The problem is that they don't only harm themselves.

What happens when they get sick and infect a lot of other people with no choice in the matter (like others in their household, or grocery store workers, transit workers, medical personnel, etc.)?
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Old 04-19-2020, 01:50 PM
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I don't want anyone to die, regardless of political affiliation. That being said, I am tired of having to counter my Facebook Trump friends' constant conspiracy theories about Bill Gates or claims that the virus issue is overblown.
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Old 04-19-2020, 02:13 PM
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Well then, welcome to the club Velocity. *

More seriously, what Neil deGrasse Tysen said has turned prophetic, except the part where he expected that Republicans with the know how would intervene before the situation was dire.

https://billmoyers.com/episode/neil-...ence-literacy/ [From the Transcript]
Quote:
BILL MOYERS: All right. According to the Pew Research Center, back in 2009, a comfortable majority of Republicans accepted human evolution as a fact. But now, a plurality rejects it [in 2014]. So I ask you, politics can trump science, can't it?

NEIL DEGRASSE TYSON: Well, in a free, elected democracy, of course. You vote who you want on your school board. There is no provision in the constitution for the government to establish what's taught in schools. That's all relegated to the states. Hence, we speak state to state about what's in their science textbook versus another.

And so that's the country we've all sort of bought into, if you will, or born into. I think it's a self-correcting phenomenon. Nobody wants to die, okay? So we all care about health. But above all else, among the Republicans I know, especially Republicans, nobody wants to die poor, okay?

So educated Republicans know the value of innovations in science and technology for the thriving of an economy and business and industry. They know this. If you put something that is not science in a science classroom, pass it off as science, then you are undermining an entire enterprise that was responsible for creating the wealth that we have come to take for granted in this country. So we're already fading economically. If this, if that trend continues, some Republican is going to wake up and say, "Look guys, we got to split these two. We have to. Otherwise, we will doom ourselves to poverty." And so I see it as a self-correcting, I don't know when it'll happen, but they know.





*

Yeah, I realize that hanging a lot with us you already figured out a long time ago how off base a lot of what Republicans are pushing is nowadays.

Last edited by GIGObuster; 04-19-2020 at 02:13 PM.
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Old 04-19-2020, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Bijou Drains View Post
So if they go out and get sick and die I won't shed many tears. How about you?
Cite that most of the people ignoring the stay at home orders are Republicans, or Trump supporters? The ones on TV demonstrating probably are, but those aren't the bulk of the people out and about.
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Old 04-19-2020, 02:27 PM
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You know what a good pandemic really needs? Lots of partisanship. That way, positions can be hardened, people can be even more stressed, and we'll all be sure to behave as irrationally as possible.

Go team.
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Old 04-19-2020, 02:29 PM
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To add to what Telemark said, if Republicans in rural areas go out and about, that's one thing. If anyone with the virus (Republican or not) goes about in an urban area, they can potentially infect 100x more people than they could in a rural area. In other words, urban cities with 70-90% Democratic populaces have the most to fear.

This thread reminds me of people who were gleeful over Hurricane Harvey hitting Texas and Florida three years ago ("those are Trump states!"), not realizing that the hardest-hit places were Democratic urban centers like Houston and Miami.
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Old 04-19-2020, 02:34 PM
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Cite that most of the people ignoring the stay at home orders are Republicans, or Trump supporters? The ones on TV demonstrating probably are, but those aren't the bulk of the people out and about.
I live in New York so the contrast is pretty clearcut. We have Andrew Coumo telling everyone they should stay home and we have Donald Trump telling people it's okay to go out (although I'll concede that what Trump says can change wildly from day to day).

So when I see people hanging out in a crowd in a public place without masks, I know that while they may not be a Trump supporter they're a Trump follower.
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Old 04-19-2020, 02:34 PM
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I'm not even sure they'll bear an equal share of the burden. Black people, for example, mostly don't support Trump but they're getting hit hard:

https://www.vox.com/coronavirus-covi...-cdc-infection
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Old 04-19-2020, 02:36 PM
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You know what a good pandemic really needs? Lots of partisanship. That way, positions can be hardened, people can be even more stressed, and we'll all be sure to behave as irrationally as possible.

Go team.
What can we do to stop the partisanship? We tried impeaching Trump and the other Republicans refused.
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Old 04-19-2020, 02:41 PM
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To add to what Telemark said, if Republicans in rural areas go out and about, that's one thing. If anyone with the virus (Republican or not) goes about in an urban area, they can potentially infect 100x more people than they could in a rural area. In other words, urban cities with 70-90% Democratic populaces have the most to fear.

This thread reminds me of people who were gleeful over Hurricane Harvey hitting Texas and Florida three years ago ("those are Trump states!"), not realizing that the hardest-hit places were Democratic urban centers like Houston and Miami.
Yes, if only there would have been a way to spirit away all the Democrats from those states, then everyone here could have had a big laugh watching Republicans drown. The fact that Democrats were hurt too was clearly the only moral problem with popping popcorn to watch a state be ravaged.

If Republicans are currently more likely than Democrats to demand an end to the lockdown, the obvious reason is that more of them tend to live in less populated areas where the risk is lower and the visible damage from the virus is harder to see, but the economic damage from the lockdown is obvious and growing.
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Old 04-19-2020, 03:17 PM
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This thread reminds me of people who were gleeful over Hurricane Harvey hitting Texas and Florida three years ago ("those are Trump states!")
Obviously you have a cite for this and aren't just making it up.
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Old 04-19-2020, 03:22 PM
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this poll says way more republicans than dems are worried things are moving too slowly to open things up.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/mee...virus-n1187011
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Old 04-19-2020, 05:01 PM
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So when I see people hanging out in a crowd in a public place without masks, I know that while they may not be a Trump supporter they're a Trump follower.
That doesn't follow. If you go to any outdoor recreation location in MA where I live you'll see dozens and dozens of cars parked and people milling about walking dogs and enjoying the sunshine and completely avoiding proper social distancing. And the bumper stickers on those cars are for Bernie, Warren, and COEXIST. People everywhere are people, and many of every political stripe get tired of being cooped up.

I don't think they are are following Trump's ideas of social distancing, but they don't think it applies to them or they simply don't care.
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Old 04-19-2020, 09:46 PM
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My mother recently said that wanting to go out and socialize before we have control of the situation is like wanting to take off your parachute because land is in sight, and I told her it is more like someone flipping out and trying to open the airplane door while in flight.
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Old 04-19-2020, 10:10 PM
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So when I see people hanging out in a crowd in a public place without masks, I know that while they may not be a Trump supporter they're a Trump follower.
My BIL soaks up way too much Fox shit but he's had to stay home since his bar closed and no others are open nearby. The nearest (not his type) tried staying open to serve biker clientele. Here comes sheriff, with padlocks. Bye-bye liquor license and business.

I doubt those bikers were Bernie Bros.

My (R) rural redneck county is loaded with Trimpist retirees. Even they mostly wear masks and keep distance. Morons congregating aren't necessarily GOPs, just morons.
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Old 04-20-2020, 06:47 AM
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I saw a meme regarding Michigan and the protests that said " how ironic that men are getting upset about a woman telling them what they can do with their bodies."
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Old 04-20-2020, 07:11 AM
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Some of them might just be folks listening to the CDC. There's a reason they haven't been recommending most of the quarantine measures. My hunch is that it's because, having studied the question much more extensively than any of us on this board, they've come to the realization that extreme measures cause more problems than they solve.
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Old 04-20-2020, 07:38 AM
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Some of them might just be folks listening to the CDC. There's a reason they haven't been recommending most of the quarantine measures. My hunch is that it's because, having studied the question much more extensively than any of us on this board, they've come to the realization that extreme measures cause more problems than they solve.
The CDC begs to disagree.

Fortunately, the large majority of those polled here support strong national measures:
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Originally Posted by Morning Consult Poll
The survey of 1,996 registered voters, conducted March 20-22, finds roughly 3 in 4 voters back a national quarantine, in which all public activity, save for essential travel such as trips to the grocery store and pharmacy, would be prohibited.

Though Democrats are more firmly in favor of a national quarantine, with 81 percent of the electorate saying they support such a measure, a majority of Republicans (72 percent) and independents (69 percent) are also supportive. The survey has a margin of error of 2 percentage points.
Granted, that's a couple of weeks ago, and the astroturf organizations have been busily proselytizing the Fox news crowd.
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Old 04-20-2020, 07:55 AM
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It's part fo the mind set of 'rugged individualism'. basically you are responsible for you. You go out you get sick it's on you. If you get someone else sick it's on them, because they went out too. No harm no foul. The opposite is responsibility to one's fellow man, you are responsible to those you affect to the degree you can know and act and them to you.

The problem is in this situation it's not like all the right is only associating from those on the right, but going to spread Covid everywhere they go.

In a very ironic way what they are protesting is the very thing their actions are supporting.
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Old 04-21-2020, 08:04 AM
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Now they want women to control their bodies , bunch of signs here

https://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/sign...rotests-across
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Old 04-21-2020, 08:12 AM
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Oh, but we can't say things like that! That's just wrong!

I guess it's only asahi who's the "sociopath" eh?
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Old 04-21-2020, 08:44 AM
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Now they want women to control their bodies , bunch of signs here

https://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/sign...rotests-across
I'm trying to decide what I think about the protestors wearing masks. Seems smart, but not on brand for a "open it all up" protest. And of course most of the people there weren't in masks.
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Old 04-21-2020, 08:47 AM
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You know what a good pandemic really needs? Lots of partisanship. That way, positions can be hardened, people can be even more stressed, and we'll all be sure to behave as irrationally as possible.

Go team.
One party is pushing people to keep to social distancing measures, pretty universally. The other one (with some notable exceptions) is pushing measures that will literally kill tens of thousands of people unnecessarily.

This shouldn't be partisan, but Republicans are, as a whole, so delusional, and so beholden to Trump's lies, that it is.
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Old 04-21-2020, 10:34 AM
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I saw a meme regarding Michigan and the protests that said " how ironic that men are getting upset about a woman telling them what they can do with their bodies."
Overheard in a workplace on the other side of the Mitten: "All those zombie movies were missing something all this time and we didn't realize it. All the protesters demonstrating for their right to become zombies."
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Old 04-21-2020, 12:01 PM
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To add to what Telemark said, if Republicans in rural areas go out and about, that's one thing. If anyone with the virus (Republican or not) goes about in an urban area, they can potentially infect 100x more people than they could in a rural area. In other words, urban cities with 70-90% Democratic populaces have the most to fear.
.
Which is why I’m particularly astounded that all those rural folks made a deliberate decision to travel to the urban centers of their states and spend the day mingling unprotected in a large crowd. Then they got in their cars and drove back to their rural hometowns where they intend to “defy the Dems“ by opening their businesses back up.

They’re trying to prove something. And if nothing happens they will feel vindicated and they’ll ballyhoo this as evidence that the whole thing was a hoax. It’s a gamble - but I don’t think they’ve fully considered what’s going to happen if they lose.

Last edited by Ann Hedonia; 04-21-2020 at 12:02 PM.
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Old 04-21-2020, 01:20 PM
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So if they go out and get sick and die I won't shed many tears. How about you?
Trump voters need to get back to work and pay taxes so that Democrats can continue to get welfare checks and food stamps.
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Old 04-21-2020, 01:30 PM
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Trump voters need to get back to work and pay taxes so that Democrats can continue to get welfare checks and food stamps.
Do you have any opinions about the possibility of the coronavirus resurging if people start congregating again?
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Old 04-21-2020, 01:48 PM
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Trump voters need to get back to work and pay taxes so that Democrats can continue to get welfare checks and food stamps.
Really putting the "sick" into "sick burn," reason.
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Old 04-21-2020, 02:10 PM
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Long time ago, some people would hold Chicken Pox parties, where they'd get all the kids together with a sick kid, so everyone would get the infection out of the way at the same time.

I think we should start calling these protests Coronavirus Parties.
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Old 04-21-2020, 02:44 PM
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This thread reminds me of people who were gleeful over Hurricane Harvey hitting Texas and Florida three years ago ("those are Trump states!"), not realizing that the hardest-hit places were Democratic urban centers like Houston and Miami.
And yet, they're still Trump states.

I've often heard people complain that Trump won the election because Democrats in key states didn't show up to vote. Perhaps if someone builds a fire under complacent people (or they're hit by a hurricane or some other disaster), they'll be more inclined to take an interest in deciding the course of government.
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Old 04-21-2020, 02:54 PM
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Cite that most of the people ignoring the stay at home orders are Republicans, or Trump supporters? The ones on TV demonstrating probably are, but those aren't the bulk of the people out and about.
Based entirely on my highly unscientific observational opinion as someone who runs a cash register in grocery store...

If you make a Venn diagram of "Trump supporters" and "fail to observe current health and hygiene rules and recommendations" the overlap between the two would significantly exceed 50%
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Old 04-21-2020, 02:59 PM
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Trump voters need to get back to work and pay taxes so that Democrats can continue to get welfare checks and food stamps.
It's true. The coal mining towns are booming and The Wall is well over 5000miles long and 6miles high by now. You must be exhausted from all the winning.
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Old 04-21-2020, 03:00 PM
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Well, one of them is my dad. I deplore his politics and we're on tenuous speaking terms right now, but no, I don't want him to die.
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Old 04-21-2020, 03:02 PM
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If Republicans are currently more likely than Democrats to demand an end to the lockdown, the obvious reason is that more of them tend to live in less populated areas where the risk is lower and the visible damage from the virus is harder to see, but the economic damage from the lockdown is obvious and growing.
Give it 2-3 weeks.

Of those idjits that left the relative safety of true rural America to participate in these anti-lockdown rallies a few of them will pick up the virus and bring it back to where they live, where they themselves will redistribute it into their packed church congregations on the following couple of Sundays. After which rural America will have more hotspots than an Australian bushfire.

I expect more than a few will try to tough it out at home, some will die there and some will die while being transported to the nearest hospital which won't be really near at all. The majority will eventually recover after suffering a very nasty "flu".
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Old 04-21-2020, 03:06 PM
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Trump voters need to get back to work and pay taxes so that Democrats can continue to get welfare checks and food stamps.
Rural areas pay far less in state and federal taxes than urban areas. Blue states generally contribute more money to the federal government than they get back.
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Old 04-21-2020, 03:29 PM
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Obviously you have a cite for this and aren't just making it up.
In a bizarre coincidence, it was the very same people who cheered while the WTC buildings collapsed.
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Old 04-21-2020, 03:30 PM
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It's true. The coal mining towns are booming and The Wall is well over 5000miles long and 6miles high by now. You must be exhausted from all the winning.
It has to be that big to keep the white walkers out.
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Old 04-21-2020, 03:32 PM
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Rural areas pay far less in state and federal taxes than urban areas. Blue states generally contribute more money to the federal government than they get back.
While that is true, it's also true that most poor people vote blue (at the moment).

That is shifting, though. People like Trump and Tucker Carlson are trying to move the Republicans towards socialist policies. Granted, they don't call it that, but Trump is a big believer in the idea that if you call a pig a "lion", then it's actually a lion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tucker Carlson
Thirty years ago, conservatives looked at Detroit or Newark and many other places and were horrified by what they saw. Conventional families had all but disappeared in poor neighborhoods. The majority of children were born out of wedlock. Single mothers were the rule. Crime and drugs and disorder became universal.

[...]

There was truth in this. But it wasnít the whole story. How do we know? Because virtually the same thing has happened decades later to an entirely different population. In many ways, rural America now looks a lot like Detroit.

This is striking because rural Americans wouldnít seem to have much in common with anyone from the inner city. These groups have different cultures, different traditions and political beliefs. Usually they have different skin colors. Rural people are white conservatives, mostly.

Yet, the pathologies of modern rural America are familiar to anyone who visited downtown Baltimore in the 1980s: Stunning out of wedlock birthrates. High male unemployment. A terrifying drug epidemic. Two different worlds. Similar outcomes. How did this happen? Youíd think our ruling class would be interested in knowing the answer. But mostly theyíre not. They donít have to be interested. Itís easier to import foreign labor to take the place of native-born Americans who are slipping behind.

[...]

And yet, and hereís the bewildering and infuriating part, those very same affluent married people, the ones making virtually all the decisions in our society, are doing pretty much nothing to help the people below them get and stay married. Rich people are happy to fight malaria in Congo. But working to raise menís wages in Dayton or Detroit? Thatís crazy.

Last edited by Sage Rat; 04-21-2020 at 03:33 PM.
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Old 04-21-2020, 03:49 PM
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Long time ago, some people would hold Chicken Pox parties, where they'd get all the kids together with a sick kid, so everyone would get the infection out of the way at the same time.

I think we should start calling these protests Coronavirus Parties.
Never mind. I just saw a much better term for the protestors: the Flu Klux Klan.
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Old 04-21-2020, 03:51 PM
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It has to be that big to keep the white walkers out.
I don't think it's the white walkers Trump supporters are worried about...
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Old 04-21-2020, 03:59 PM
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I think sheer stupidity is bipartisan, and is probably far more significant. I'm in a non-redneck part of NM, and I don't have any perception that people are skeptical or rebellious here. But every time I go out I see incredible levels of stupidity, failure to grasp the simple concept of keeping a few feet apart and avoiding unnecessary contact.

At all my local supermarkets, while the cashiers are now protected in some cases by plastic screens, they still have people bagging groceries at the end of checkout lanes. At the self checkout yesterday, there was a guy trying to be helpful - showing people how to use it, standing almost touching them and handling all their purchases. In both cases, if the person involved is shedding virus, they could easily infect thousands of people in a few days.

It seems that my state (NM) has deemed businesses either essential or non-essential, so far so good. But if a business is deemed "essential", there appears to be little to no supervision to ensure that they are operating intelligently. If infection levels rise to significant levels here I think we're going to have massive levels of transmission via "essential" businesses like supermarkets. At least until enough people are dying that people start thinking more carefully about what they are doing.

Last edited by Riemann; 04-21-2020 at 04:03 PM.
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Old 04-21-2020, 04:11 PM
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Do you have any opinions about the possibility of the coronavirus resurging if people start congregating again?
Considering that one poster was celebrating the possibility of Trump voters getting sick and dying and that being a good thing, I figured the subject of the thread was moot anyway.

The latest projection for the Kung Flu is 60,000 dead. That's an average American flu season. And regardless of what vaccines are available and what government flu shots are available (and I'll trust a government flu shot only with a gun to my head) the flu will continue to kill around 60,000 Americans.

Without an economy, people will die. Without a tax base, without a way to pay for all those wonderful services out there that protect us, we become a self inflicted Somalia.

And 98 percent of all who catch the Kung Flu have a complete recovery. At some point the cure is deadlier than the disease.

Waiting around until the virus completely disappears is just plain stupid. And it's dangerous.
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Old 04-21-2020, 04:13 PM
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Really putting the "sick" into "sick burn," reason.
Just keeping it real. Just presenting facts.
Create a thread and bash Trump supporters (who are the most intelligent people in America) and don't be surprised if you get a little resistance.
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Old 04-21-2020, 04:14 PM
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Long time ago, some people would hold Chicken Pox parties, where they'd get all the kids together with a sick kid, so everyone would get the infection out of the way at the same time.

I think we should start calling these protests Coronavirus Parties.
That BILL OF RIGHTS is a real bugger, huh? Applies to everyone, not just idiots.
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Old 04-21-2020, 04:18 PM
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And yet, they're still Trump states.

I've often heard people complain that Trump won the election because Democrats in key states didn't show up to vote. Perhaps if someone builds a fire under complacent people (or they're hit by a hurricane or some other disaster), they'll be more inclined to take an interest in deciding the course of government.
Those Democrats who stayed home did the country a favor. Hillary would have been an absolute disaster. We wouldn't have had an economy to shut down.

This time around, there are some Bernie bots who have said they will be voting for Trump. If the Democrats are stupid enough to try to wedge Andrew Cuomo into a brokered convention, the Trump landslide will be the biggest in history.
  #47  
Old 04-21-2020, 04:19 PM
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I just read that a meat-packing plant near Calgary has 484 (!!) infections among the workers. They are an 'essential' business, and claimed to be following more hygienic procedures, but workers were ignoring them, and many were carpooling to work.

A friend of mine is working on a 'necessary' construction project at a remote site. 1600 workers, and they pack them on crowded buses every day and bus them to the job site. I'm waiting for that to hit the news when an outbreak happens.
  #48  
Old 04-21-2020, 04:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Left Hand of Dorkness View Post
Never mind. I just saw a much better term for the protestors: the Flu Klux Klan.
The Democrats already own that franchise.
  #49  
Old 04-21-2020, 04:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reason10 View Post
Considering that one poster was celebrating the possibility of Trump voters getting sick and dying and that being a good thing, I figured the subject of the thread was moot anyway.

The latest projection for the Kung Flu is 60,000 dead. That's an average American flu season. And regardless of what vaccines are available and what government flu shots are available (and I'll trust a government flu shot only with a gun to my head) the flu will continue to kill around 60,000 Americans.

Without an economy, people will die. Without a tax base, without a way to pay for all those wonderful services out there that protect us, we become a self inflicted Somalia.

And 98 percent of all who catch the Kung Flu have a complete recovery. At some point the cure is deadlier than the disease.

Waiting around until the virus completely disappears is just plain stupid. And it's dangerous.
I've seen this same reasoning defect among people who follow RW media.

The flu killed from 24k to 62k (as I recall) during the last season with no social distancing measures.

Covid-19 is expected to kill 60k with massive and unprecedented social distancing measures.

Do you understand that Covid will kill many more people if we turn off the social distancing measures too soon? It seems like you think it's exactly as deadly as the flu.

Say another 150 thousand die. Is that okay with you? How many people need to die before you care?
  #50  
Old 04-21-2020, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by squeegee View Post
Rural areas pay far less in state and federal taxes than urban areas. Blue states generally contribute more money to the federal government than they get back.
Except that their WELFARE states gobble up most of that money. It generally balances out.
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