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  #51  
Old 05-05-2020, 07:18 PM
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I very clearly live in the US, and no, most Bernie supporters who've bailed on the party aren't in Russia.
Why did you say to an American, ď Vladimir Putin is not the reason your country and its politics are in shambles...Ē if you live here? I canít even imagine what youíre driving at.
  #52  
Old 05-05-2020, 09:29 PM
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I expect they'd already decided it would be a woman (maybe not which woman), and wanted to prevent the chance of a potential poor debate performance being the headline. I think it was probably an excellent tactical move by the Biden team, and as much as I don't like Biden, that move makes me at least feel better about the political acumen of his team.
I go the opposite way. I think it was a screw-up. Let's face facts; Biden's a good politician but he's a poor candidate. One of his big problems as a candidate is he throws out a lot of verbal gaffes. And I feel this was one of them.

He and his team may have decided on picking a woman VP. There's nothing wrong with that; lots of VP choices are made for reasons that can be described as "pandering". Pence was picked to appeal to evangelicals. Biden himself was picked to balance out Obama's race and inexperience.

But putting aside the making of the decision, it was announced in just about the worst possible way. Biden should never have announced he was going to pick "a woman"; he should have waited until he made his pick, gotten her agreement to run, and then announced he was picking this specific person - who just happened to be a woman.

By announcing he was making being a woman a qualification, he's damaged the reputation of whoever he picks (and there's a good chance some women might decline the offer for that reason). However qualified she is, there will now be the perception that she only got the job because it was set aside for a woman.

While there would have been inevitable accusations that this was just pandering and identity politics, Biden could have refuted them if he hadn't said this. He could have gone with the "I didn't pick her because she's a woman. I picked her because she was the best person for the job" line. But he's throw that chance away and handed the Republicans a sound-bite that will dog the rest of the campaign.
  #53  
Old 05-06-2020, 05:16 AM
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I go the opposite way. I think it was a screw-up. Let's face facts; Biden's a good politician but he's a poor candidate. One of his big problems as a candidate is he throws out a lot of verbal gaffes. And I feel this was one of them.



He and his team may have decided on picking a woman VP. There's nothing wrong with that; lots of VP choices are made for reasons that can be described as "pandering". Pence was picked to appeal to evangelicals. Biden himself was picked to balance out Obama's race and inexperience.



But putting aside the making of the decision, it was announced in just about the worst possible way. Biden should never have announced he was going to pick "a woman"; he should have waited until he made his pick, gotten her agreement to run, and then announced he was picking this specific person - who just happened to be a woman.



By announcing he was making being a woman a qualification, he's damaged the reputation of whoever he picks (and there's a good chance some women might decline the offer for that reason). However qualified she is, there will now be the perception that she only got the job because it was set aside for a woman.



While there would have been inevitable accusations that this was just pandering and identity politics, Biden could have refuted them if he hadn't said this. He could have gone with the "I didn't pick her because she's a woman. I picked her because she was the best person for the job" line. But he's throw that chance away and handed the Republicans a sound-bite that will dog the rest of the campaign.
I think, in general, the people susceptible to believing this kind of thing already believe it (these are the ones who think Obama wouldn't have been elected if he was white). I think this excites more Biden skeptics (like me - I'm still not at all a fan, but I feel far less bad about him than I did before that) than it potentially turns off.

If Biden is undisciplined enough to throw out something like this off the cuff, rather than planned, then he's an even worse candidate than I fear, and who knows what will happen.
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  #54  
Old 05-06-2020, 09:24 AM
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I go the opposite way. I think it was a screw-up. Let's face facts; Biden's a good politician but he's a poor candidate. One of his big problems as a candidate is he throws out a lot of verbal gaffes. And I feel this was one of them.
Whiole I agree it was a bad move, I'm not sure this qualifies as a "gaffe," does it? A gaffe is a spontaneous thing that just sounds awful or hideously stupid. This strikes me as being more of a strategic-level error.
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Old 05-06-2020, 11:04 AM
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If Biden is undisciplined enough to throw out something like this off the cuff, rather than planned, then he's an even worse candidate than I fear, and who knows what will happen.
Biden's poor campaigning skills would be a serious problem is he was campaigning against somebody like Obama or Reagan or Kennedy. They were all excellent campaigners.

But Biden will be campaigning against Trump, who will say more dumb things in a typical day than Biden will say in the whole campaign.
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Old 05-06-2020, 11:10 AM
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With all due respect - and I mean it, I don't know you as a person, I have no idea what you're like and I don't mean this to be personal, but :

That's the kind of comment that would come from someone who's been asleep for the past 4 years.
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Old 05-06-2020, 03:00 PM
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The idea of announcing seems like a non issue to me.

He is looking to "tick boxes" with past experiences and being female is one of those boxes. It is a qualification that is important to him.

When looking to fill a role, it seems that bringing diverse perspectives, or a background that you don't have is a relevant thing to look for. If you come from an urban area, growing up rural might matter, as might being a minority, or speaking a second language or being female or any other demographic / pyschcograpic
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Old 05-06-2020, 07:50 PM
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Because it's long past time for there to be a woman in that role.
  #59  
Old 05-06-2020, 08:04 PM
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That's the kind of comment that would come from someone who's been asleep for the past 4 years.
Are you disputing that Trump says a lot of dumb things? Because I can provide cites.
  #60  
Old 05-06-2020, 09:59 PM
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I went back and watched that debate again. Here’s my thoughts on reflection.

1. It wasn’t a gaffe or just something Biden blurted out. He came into the debate knowing he was making that announcement.

2. One reason was Biden wanted to slam the door shut on the Medicare 4 all talk. COVID is the threat now and wasting more hot air on fantasy health care plans is pointless.

3. Biden surely knew that a lot of Democrats wish they’d both sat this out. Having the last two remaining being septuagenarian white men didn’t thrill a lot of the Democratic base. Announcing a woman would be the VP threw the coldest bucket of ice water on a potential Biden//Sanders ticket. It also let voters know that Biden himself knows it’s time to pass the torch to a new generation and when he runs with a woman VP, he’s serious about putting more cracks in the glass ceiling.

4. Biden told Sanders the primaries are OVER. He’s the nominee and he’s pivoting to the general. The look on Biden’s face after the announcement and the rest of the debate showed that Biden was moving on. No more debates, Bernie can run in as many primaries as he wants but Bernie is going on the ignore list.

5. Yes, Biden won the night by his announcement. No one in the MSM was talking or writing about M4A and how it might affect COVID as Bernie was talking about it. Veep speculation began that following morning.
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  #61  
Old 05-07-2020, 09:17 AM
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I went back and watched that debate again. Hereís my thoughts on reflection.

1. It wasnít a gaffe or just something Biden blurted out. He came into the debate knowing he was making that announcement.

2. One reason was Biden wanted to slam the door shut on the Medicare 4 all talk. COVID is the threat now and wasting more hot air on fantasy health care plans is pointless.

3. Biden surely knew that a lot of Democrats wish theyíd both sat this out. Having the last two remaining being septuagenarian white men didnít thrill a lot of the Democratic base. Announcing a woman would be the VP threw the coldest bucket of ice water on a potential Biden//Sanders ticket. It also let voters know that Biden himself knows itís time to pass the torch to a new generation and when he runs with a woman VP, heís serious about putting more cracks in the glass ceiling.

4. Biden told Sanders the primaries are OVER. Heís the nominee and heís pivoting to the general. The look on Bidenís face after the announcement and the rest of the debate showed that Biden was moving on. No more debates, Bernie can run in as many primaries as he wants but Bernie is going on the ignore list.

5. Yes, Biden won the night by his announcement. No one in the MSM was talking or writing about M4A and how it might affect COVID as Bernie was talking about it. Veep speculation began that following morning.
You make a great point. Biden did exactly what he was supposed to -- pivoted the conversation away from real change to ensure our corporate overlords remain happy. Thank you, Democratic Establishment!

Doesn't change anything, of course -- its Biden or Bust now. Beating Trump is critical.
  #62  
Old 05-07-2020, 10:02 AM
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You make a great point. Biden did exactly what he was supposed to -- pivoted the conversation away from real change to ensure our corporate overlords remain happy. Thank you, Democratic Establishment!

Doesn't change anything, of course -- its Biden or Bust now. Beating Trump is critical.
As a reminder, Bernie Sanders is an elected member of the US Senate. That gives him opportunities every day to speak out and have conversations, hopefully more effectively than on a message board.

By the way, heís also free to write all the damn bills he wants to implement those changes.
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  #63  
Old 05-07-2020, 12:54 PM
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Trump about to go after Biden with major ad campaign. I'm guessing part of it is he's a career politician. May even bring up his sons cocaine use
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Old 05-08-2020, 02:43 AM
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Why did Biden announce a female VP? Maybe he thought it was a good idea.

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Trump about to go after Biden with major ad campaign. I'm guessing part of it is he's a career politician. May even bring up his sons cocaine use
Donny is demonstrably scared shitless of Biden, so much so that he was impeached for his efforts. Ad campaign? Meh. I hope Biden has a VERY good security detail and brave food tasters. Maybe I should poll Dopers on the odds for both being alive in November.
  #65  
Old 05-09-2020, 08:55 PM
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What he did by definition IS Sexist


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My guess is that he already had a short list, and it was like mostly women anyway. They, put on the spot, he just said it would be.

and of course- it's time the USA stopped it's sexist ways and elected a woman to the White house.
Don't know if you've thought of this, or maybe you think "Sexist" is a One way charge, but what he did when announcing that he WOULD pick a woman, is in essence announcing that no Man, no matter how good, would ever be picked even over the worst woman. That IS Sexist.

Are you somehow thinking that we solve Sexism by simply reversing who we become sexist against?

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  #66  
Old 05-10-2020, 02:18 AM
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Why do I feel an MRA hijack about to commence?
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  #67  
Old 05-10-2020, 06:05 AM
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Don't know if you've thought of this, or maybe you think "Sexist" is a One way charge, but what he did when announcing that he WOULD pick a woman, is in essence announcing that no Man, no matter how good, would ever be picked even over the worst woman. That IS Sexist.



Are you somehow thinking that we solve Sexism by simply reversing who we become sexist against?
Our maybe he'd already determined that the best candidates were women.
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Old 05-10-2020, 11:29 AM
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There is nothing sexist at all about saying that you want your VP to be a woman. It simply states that a female perspective is important enough to you that it will outweigh any other slight differences in overall "scores" when evaluating your choices. It could only be seen as objectionable if you believe:

(a) there is no possible value to be placed on having a different perspective in the office of the VP

OR

(b) there is no female candidate whose qualifications put her within whatever value you place on (a) of the best male candidate (implicit within this is that there no chance that the best candidate is actually a woman)

Biden has placed a certain value on (a) and is very confident that there are multiple female candidates that are qualified enough to be VP. And that's without going into the obvious and inarguable electoral benefit of a female VP candidate, as well as any tactical arguments about changing debate topics, news cycles, etc.
  #69  
Old 05-15-2020, 04:14 AM
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Biden should pick the one man he could get away with selecting at this time...Barack Obama.
While Obama cannot legally run for president, the law does not forbid him from running for VP.
Trump and the far right would throw a fit.
The Obama-Pence debate would be a complete joke!!!
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Old 05-15-2020, 05:44 AM
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It's probably because of the sexual assault, his history of groping women and his lack of appeal with younger voters.
  #71  
Old 05-15-2020, 11:29 AM
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Biden should pick the one man he could get away with selecting at this time...Barack Obama.
While Obama cannot legally run for president, the law does not forbid him from running for VP.
Trump and the far right would throw a fit.
The Obama-Pence debate would be a complete joke!!!
Obama is not eligible. ( realize there's a debate about that)

The 12th Amendment concludes:

Quote:
But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States.
I would love to see Obama on the ticket, but I'm sure Obama has no interest. (and probably isn't' eligible.)
  #72  
Old 05-15-2020, 12:26 PM
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If Trump wins this year will he blame all his problems on the Trump 1st term admin?
  #73  
Old 05-15-2020, 11:30 PM
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Two, and more importantly: he failed to take into account the fact that the tide of current events in the months leading up to the election could potentially shape a stellar VP choice who would then be locked out because it might be a man. Let's say that in the next few months, one of the state governors does an absolutely amazing job of rising to the occasion, truly distinguishing that state's mitigation efforts above all the others. Let's say just hypothetically that Jay Inslee, for instance, in the course of governorship during this pandemic, comes up with some kind of amazingly creative and effective plan that leads to a situation when, after the initial dust has settled in a few months, the whole country is looking at Washington State and saying, "wow, they did something right - their response to the virus was head and shoulders above the rest of the country."

Imagine this is a poker game. It's Hold 'em. Biden has his cards. The coronavirus is the flop. The mitigation efforts are the turn. The resolution is the river. But wait, none of that matters because Biden folded as soon as he got his cards.
There's an obvious solution that the left would just eat up with a spoon.

Have Islee publicly state that he identifies as a woman. Problem solved!
  #74  
Old 05-16-2020, 06:55 AM
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It's long, long past time for a woman prez and VP. It's entirely reasonable to take that into account when considering choices.
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Old 05-16-2020, 12:16 PM
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There's an obvious solution that the left would just eat up with a spoon.

Have Islee publicly state that he identifies as a woman. Problem solved!
I think Inslee has done a pretty good job as governor. Before he even locked down the State, he got buy in from Microsoft, Amazon, Boeing and other business leaders to initiate mandatory work from home corporate policies within 72 hours.

However, I don't see him with national star power. Certainly hasn't dominated like Cuomo.
  #76  
Old 05-16-2020, 12:23 PM
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It's long, long past time for a woman prez and VP. It's entirely reasonable to take that into account when considering choices.
I agree. But I see no advantage of announcing it so early in the campaign. He didn't need to do it to win the primary. As others have said, keep your options open and if it turns out to be a woman when a pick is announced this summer, great.
  #77  
Old 05-21-2020, 02:59 PM
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No surprise , he is vetting Amy Klobuchar
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Old 05-21-2020, 05:19 PM
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I agree. But I see no advantage of announcing it so early in the campaign. He didn't need to do it to win the primary.
Maybe he didn't need to make this commitment so early in the campaign nor to win the primary. BUT the move knocked out Sanders, and prevented a repeat of 4 years ago where it was dueling banjos to the Democratic Convention.

Add it to one of Hillary's failings was the inability to stop Sanders months earlier.
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Old 05-21-2020, 05:28 PM
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Our maybe he'd already determined that the best candidates were women.
The best qualified is Susan Rice, although I doubt he will pick her.
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Old 05-21-2020, 05:45 PM
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Maybe he didn't need to make this commitment so early in the campaign nor to win the primary. BUT the move knocked out Sanders, and prevented a repeat of 4 years ago where it was dueling banjos to the Democratic Convention.

Add it to one of Hillary's failings was the inability to stop Sanders months earlier.
In fairness it seems the decision for Sanders to coalesce around Biden was far easier for him to do because they are personal friends.

Quote:
Meanwhile, a small group of senior aides had been pushing Sanders for months to go harder on Biden.

The problem: Sanders actually liked him. Personally, they got along better than he ever did with Hillary Clinton, aides have said. (The former vice president falls into an exclusive category for the Vermont senator: the people who were nice to Sanders before he mattered, as two aides put it recently.)
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article...biden-campaign

You could look at that cynically as an example of the old boys club. But another way is that networking seems to be Biden's biggest strength. He ran against Obama in the 2008 Primary but they became arguably the closest POTUS-VP team ever. He ran to help defeat his longtime friend John McCain who remained his friend and who was eulogized by Biden (and Obama) at his funeral. He had a bruising political battle with Sanders which is now over and they are now working together to defeat the common enemy in November. If Biden picks Kamala Harris as his running mate it would be another example of how somebody who for a short period was a formidable opponent turns into his partner. He has political opponents but Trump is probably his first real enemy. Hillary had enemies for twenty years.

Last edited by Boycott; 05-21-2020 at 05:49 PM.
  #81  
Old 05-21-2020, 05:48 PM
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No surprise , he is vetting Amy Klobuchar
Biden, and his campaign, are definitely dumb enough to pick the woman who's as exciting as a bowl of potatoes.

I can see the "virtual rallies" already...half an hour of Klobuchar spinning folksy yarns about her grandparents working in a coal mine, and telling us about various individuals that she knows in the Midwest who are undergoing great hardship, followed by Biden saying "the fact is that, in fact", for another half hour. Throw in some references to "the black and brown community" and promises to ban assault weapons.
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Old 05-21-2020, 05:54 PM
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Maybe he didn't need to make this commitment so early in the campaign nor to win the primary. BUT the move knocked out Sanders, and prevented a repeat of 4 years ago where it was dueling banjos to the Democratic Convention.

Add it to one of Hillary's failings was the inability to stop Sanders months earlier.
I guess she shouldíve promised to put a woman on the ticket.
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Old 05-21-2020, 06:58 PM
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The vetting process is expected to go on for another month. People getting carried away thinking it's confirmed Klobuchar. One of Tammy Duckworth's colleagues blurted out a week ago she is being interviewed but that didn't get as much chatter and headlines.
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Old 05-21-2020, 07:09 PM
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More and more, I'm thinking Michigan's Governor Whitmer is the way to go.
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Old 05-21-2020, 07:26 PM
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More and more, I'm thinking Michigan's Governor Whitmer is the way to go.
If the idea is to win a state, Florida is a bigger one. So - Val Demings.

However, Biden probably thinks a governor or senator will strike middle America as more plausible.
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Old 05-21-2020, 07:55 PM
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If the idea is to win a state, Florida is a bigger one. So - Val Demings.

However, Biden probably thinks a governor or senator will strike middle America as more plausible.
No. Whitmer. She's already much more popular that Chump in polling, and from what I've read, losing Michigan early on severely limits the paths to victory for him.
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Old 05-21-2020, 09:54 PM
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Florida = 29 EC votes
Michigan = 16 EC votes

Would love to see the math on the projected EC votes based on black, hispanic, asian or high level military (general or equivalent). What EC influence likely to have vs delivering on one State?
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Old 05-21-2020, 10:44 PM
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Michigan is already so pro-Whitmer and pro-Biden that Michigan would probably turn into a slam-dunk if she were the Veep candidate. Can the same thing be said about Florida and Demings? Would there be a larger Midwest effect from Whitmer? I can't see other Southern states going Biden solely because of Demings.
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  #89  
Old 05-22-2020, 06:12 AM
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If they're already pro-Biden, then making them a "slam dunk" is less valuable than turning a state that is more up in the air. It's just running up the score in a blue state--a problem Clinton had.
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Old 05-22-2020, 06:27 AM
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Looking at the math I'm inclined to agree, but it's very close. If Michigan had just two more electoral votes I'd say securing it would be more valuable than a decent chance at another state, but even with Michigan, Biden would have to win two more swing states or Florida. If it had two more electoral votes, you'd then only have to win two more swing states or Florida or Pennsylvania.
  #91  
Old 05-22-2020, 06:45 AM
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Let’s just say I had to stay off Twitter last night. The Klobuchar vetting caused the heads of Warren supporters to explode. For those not on liberal Twitter, let’s just say that Warren has easily won the Twitter primaries.

You’d think that Biden not only started vetting Klobuchar but also had named her to the ticket and is getting a divorce so they can elope!
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  #92  
Old 05-22-2020, 03:15 PM
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One example: Biden's Bet Path to Victory Lies through Michigan, says Pundit
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