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  #151  
Old 05-17-2020, 08:55 PM
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Washington isn’t like Hollywood. You don’t sleep your way to the top.
I guess you've never heard of Mitch McConnell.
  #152  
Old 05-17-2020, 09:19 PM
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I’ve met people like Tara Reade. They’re toxic. You try to help a broken bird and you get bit. There’s always a sob story that’s constantly changing and you wonder if they even know what the truth is.
They're always involved in things like mare rescue groups also. I mean, I'm glad those kind of groups exist but they're magnets for dramatic fabulists. Being a member of an animal rescue group would be, for a woman I was interested in dating or even just being social friends with, not exactly a red flag, but sort of an orange flag.
  #153  
Old 05-17-2020, 10:06 PM
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They're always involved in things like mare rescue groups also. I mean, I'm glad those kind of groups exist but they're magnets for dramatic fabulists. Being a member of an animal rescue group would be, for a woman I was interested in dating or even just being social friends with, not exactly a red flag, but sort of an orange flag.
You know, that’s a good point. When I managed a standardized test center, we had lots of temporary employees and it was always the do gooders that were the hardest to work with. One guy in particular came from some sort of ministry background and he ended up trying to psychoanalyse every single student essay thinking he’d found the next Columbine shooter because the kid wrote a fantasy about being Voldemort. It got ugly, with him demanding I forward multiple papers per day back to the respective school systems. When he didn’t think I was taking it seriously enough, he broke into the office after hours and faxed a multitude of papers at 1 in the am.
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  #154  
Old 05-18-2020, 08:41 AM
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Some people are crusaders; others are "crusaders" concealing their sense of victimization.

Reade is your classic "victim," forever throwing pity parties for herself. I wouldn't want to suggest that every activist or do-gooder is like her. I've known grievance collectors who were anything but do-gooders or humanitarians.

When someone sees himself or herself as a victim, they can justify pretty much all kinds of shit. They never take personal responsibility for anything.

"Your rent was too high"

"My wages were too low - I deserved better"

You can believe those things quite fairly, IMO, but it stops being fair when you start lying and cheating people out of things they've earned through their own hard work.
  #155  
Old 05-18-2020, 07:35 PM
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Wow, now Reade’s lawyers are trying a cease and desist order against the animal rescue shelter. Isn’t there a saying about stop digging when you find yourself in a hole?

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/0...-letter-266447
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  #156  
Old 05-18-2020, 10:24 PM
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Wow, now Reade’s lawyers are trying a cease and desist order against the animal rescue shelter. Isn’t there a saying about stop digging when you find yourself in a hole?

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/0...-letter-266447

"These harassing, intimidating and false statements are unlawful and are clearly intended to tarnish and impugn Ms. Reade’s character and reputation,” the letter, signed by attorney Douglas Wigdor, states. “

And hypocrites to boot, being as they are in the harassing, intimidating and false statements business.

“I find it very ironic that her attorney is trying to bully witnesses when he is claiming that is what’s happening to her in the Joe Biden case,” Hummer’s attorney, Pat Harris told POLITICO. “The last thing in the world that Tara Reade wants to do is meet Lynn Hummer in the courtroom.

Last edited by DrDeth; 05-18-2020 at 10:25 PM.
  #157  
Old 05-19-2020, 06:17 AM
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It seems like Anita Dunn is doing a better job protecting Biden than she did Harvey Weinstein. Still an odd move on the part of Biden's team.

You guys know Tara Reade so well though, you've really been able to project your thoughts right into her and discover so much.
  #158  
Old 05-19-2020, 06:26 AM
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I’d be interested to know where all this trenchant skepticism was during the Kavanaugh hearings...
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Old 05-19-2020, 07:21 AM
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I’d be interested to know where all this trenchant skepticism was during the Kavanaugh hearings...
The evidence is different in the Kavanaugh case. There were multiple complaints of a similar nature. There were multiple similar complaints against Biden, too, but they consisted of hair sniffing and shoulder rubbing, which I acknowledge is creepy - but it's not sexual assault.

Reade is the only one who has claimed that sexual assault took place. I admit that for a while I was waiting for the other shoe to drop, but it hasn't so far. And that's likely because there is no other shoe, and there wasn't really a first shoe to begin with.
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Old 05-19-2020, 07:25 AM
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It seems like Anita Dunn is doing a better job protecting Biden than she did Harvey Weinstein. Still an odd move on the part of Biden's team.

You guys know Tara Reade so well though, you've really been able to project your thoughts right into her and discover so much.
You apparently haven't read the investigative reporting that we've taken the time to present to skeptics such as yourself. If you're going to be so cynical that you automatically dismiss everything out of hand, then that brings you closer to troll territory. You're not adding anything new here.
  #161  
Old 05-19-2020, 07:40 AM
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That's OK. I believe both Biden and his investigators. Your opinion is actually irrelevant to me.
This breeds the hypocrisy that gets thrown the way of the Democrats. Between Wesley's I don't care, I'm voting for him anyway and your I don't care, reality means little to me, the fact of the matter is that it's A-OK when YOUR guy but oh hell no when it's the other guy.

Stinky.

When speaking about sexual harassment, there is no but my guy did it less.
  #162  
Old 05-19-2020, 07:57 AM
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When speaking about sexual harassment, there is no but my guy did it less.
Actually, yes, there is. Biden was never accused of statutory rape.
  #163  
Old 05-19-2020, 08:10 AM
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Actually, yes, there is. Biden was never accused of statutory rape.
It matters not. Either he is guilty or he is not. Both of them should be unfit for public office. But especially Biden since he hitched his horse, wagon, house, and cars to the #metoo movement. And don't let iiandyiii lead you down a false trail, BELIEF was very clearly the first step in that movement.

Any stance less than that is hypocritical.

All I see in this thread is deflection, misdirection and disbelief.

Where was any of this when it wasn't your guy under the microscope?

I look forward to hearing all about how it was different, how the people are different, how the stories are different.
You guys haven't called her a slut yet but this is still slut shaming, just using different vocabulary words.

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  #164  
Old 05-19-2020, 08:14 AM
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There should be NO person or people in this thread saying "well, even if he did it, I'm going to vote for him anyways", but that is almost all it is.

Hypocrites all.
  #165  
Old 05-19-2020, 08:31 AM
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Trump is clearly more unfit for public office so Biden is the only reasonable choice to get him out. Lesser of two evils and all that with Trump so low that he's below the bottom of the barrel.

This is not a popularity contest, except to narcissists like Trump.

Last edited by Skywatcher; 05-19-2020 at 08:35 AM.
  #166  
Old 05-19-2020, 08:37 AM
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There should be NO person or people in this thread saying "well, even if he did it, I'm going to vote for him anyways", but that is almost all it is.

Hypocrites all.
Congratulations, Kearsen1. You've just managed to insult maybe 25 people in this thread at once.

While I don't take issue with your position, I do mind your making accusations and pejorative statements vs other posters. I'm giving you a warning and you should really either dial it back, reword it or take it to the Pit.
  #167  
Old 05-19-2020, 08:46 AM
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It matters not. Either he is guilty or he is not. Both of them should be unfit for public office. But especially Biden since he hitched his horse, wagon, house, and cars to the #metoo movement. And don't let iiandyiii lead you down a false trail, BELIEF was very clearly the first step in that movement.

Any stance less than that is hypocritical.

All I see in this thread is deflection, misdirection and disbelief.

Where was any of this when it wasn't your guy under the microscope?

I look forward to hearing all about how it was different, how the people are different, how the stories are different.
You guys haven't called her a slut yet but this is still slut shaming, just using different vocabulary words.
Always fun to see men tell others how #MeToo is and should be. Care to pontificate on the experiences and challenges of other groups of hundreds of millions of whom you have zero personal experience as a part?
  #168  
Old 05-19-2020, 09:04 AM
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And don't let iiandyiii lead you down a false trail, BELIEF was very clearly the first step in that movement.
Indeed..."Believe Women" is actually a slogan of the #MeToo movement.

Clearly you completely misunderstand it though.

Only the fringiest of people will say you just believe any accusation a woman says.

Nearly all #MeToo adherents will tell you it means the accusation should always be taken seriously and dutifully investigated. That's it.

Yet you seem to be under the impression that any accusation by a woman is all it takes. You could not be more wrong about that.
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  #169  
Old 05-19-2020, 09:54 AM
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The hashtag was #BelieveWomen because #TakeAllAllegationsSeriouslyAndRefrainFromDenigratingAccusersJustForSpeakingOut was a bit too long. Maybe there could have been a better hashtag, but no one significant has ever said "all women must be believed without question no matter what they say".
  #170  
Old 05-19-2020, 10:01 AM
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As author Douglas Adams so correctly put it in his Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy series...
Arthur: "Why don't people get rid of the lizards?"
Ford: "It honestly doesn't occur to them," said Ford. They've all got the vote, so they all pretty much assume that the government they've voted in more or less approximates to the government they want."

Seriously, we cannot do any better than this? Really? Trump and Biden are the best we can put forward as candidates to be our highest leader?! Can we please for once just not vote for a lizard?
  #171  
Old 05-19-2020, 10:08 AM
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As author Douglas Adams so correctly put it in his Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy series...
Arthur: "Why don't people get rid of the lizards?"
Ford: "It honestly doesn't occur to them," said Ford. They've all got the vote, so they all pretty much assume that the government they've voted in more or less approximates to the government they want."

Seriously, we cannot do any better than this? Really? Trump and Biden are the best we can put forward as candidates to be our highest leader?! Can we please for once just not vote for a lizard?
What 2008 & 2012 weren't good enough for you?
  #172  
Old 05-19-2020, 10:26 AM
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Seriously, we cannot do any better than this? Really? Trump and Biden are the best we can put forward as candidates to be our highest leader?! Can we please for once just not vote for a lizard?
As Bill James - noted baseball analyst and as much of a patron saint of Sabermetrics as anyone, once wrote (I paraphrase) back in 1988...

"We have a former President of Yale, a world-class heart surgeon and the former President of Columbia Pictures running major league baseball but we get Bush and Dukakis as Presidential candidates? What the hell, America?"
  #173  
Old 05-19-2020, 10:33 AM
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As Bill James - noted baseball analyst and as much of a patron saint of Sabermetrics as anyone, once wrote (I paraphrase) back in 1988...

"We have a former President of Yale, a world-class heart surgeon and the former President of Columbia Pictures running major league baseball but we get Bush and Dukakis as Presidential candidates? What the hell, America?"
"It is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it... anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job."

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  #174  
Old 05-19-2020, 10:46 AM
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You apparently haven't read the investigative reporting that we've taken the time to present to skeptics such as yourself. If you're going to be so cynical that you automatically dismiss everything out of hand, then that brings you closer to troll territory. You're not adding anything new here.
Asahi, this could easily be read as an accusation of trolling.

Never do this sort of thing again. I hope that's clear.
  #175  
Old 05-19-2020, 10:54 AM
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1988 seems an odd election to pick. Two very qualified candidates. I hate the incessant, ‘Is this the best we can do?’ That’s a lazy whine. There’s lots of aspects involved in a job in elected office. Sometimes the very best and brightest would be horrible elected officials.

Yeah, Trump is awful. But he won. He had a very qualified opponent in 2016 and has one again in 2020.
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  #176  
Old 05-19-2020, 11:08 AM
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As Bill James - noted baseball analyst and as much of a patron saint of Sabermetrics as anyone, once wrote (I paraphrase) back in 1988...

"We have a former President of Yale, a world-class heart surgeon and the former President of Columbia Pictures running major league baseball but we get Bush and Dukakis as Presidential candidates? What the hell, America?"
OTOH, baseball seriously considered making Bush's son their Commissioner (which may have ended up better for the country as a whole if they did).
  #177  
Old 05-19-2020, 11:13 AM
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1988 seems an odd election to pick. Two very qualified candidates. I hate the incessant, ‘Is this the best we can do?’ That’s a lazy whine. There’s lots of aspects involved in a job in elected office. Sometimes the very best and brightest would be horrible elected officials.
In fact there is a book about that .

Yes, in 1988, 1992, 2008, and 2012 you had two candidates who were generally well thought of and had popularity in their respective parties (at least until some gaffes during the general campaign - such as Dukakis' tank picture or Romney's 47% comment). Even in 2000 you had elements of that.
  #178  
Old 05-19-2020, 11:34 AM
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In fact there is a book about that .
And an excellent one.

https://www.amazon.com/What-Takes-Wa...s=books&sr=1-4
  #179  
Old 05-19-2020, 11:57 AM
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In the Kavanaugh case, I did in fact consider the possibility that the main witness against Kavanaugh was lying. But it didn't matter, because if Kavanaugh were lying to manufacture evidence against himself, it still pointed to the conclusion that he was unfit for high office.
  #180  
Old 05-19-2020, 12:26 PM
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I’d be interested to know where all this trenchant skepticism was during the Kavanaugh hearings...
My trenchant skepticism was focused on Kavanaugh's qualifications (or lack thereof) and his history as a partisan hack. Thanks for asking, UM!
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  #181  
Old 05-19-2020, 12:31 PM
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It's hard to believe anyone cannot see this is a made-up accusation that is among the first salvo in what will prove to be a very dirty campaign on Chump's part.
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  #182  
Old 05-19-2020, 12:35 PM
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It's hard to believe anyone cannot see this is a made-up accusation that is among the first salvo in what will prove to be a very dirty campaign on Chump's part.
And it's not only the first salvo because Trump got caught loading the barrel a few months ago- we had an impeachment over it and everything.
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  #183  
Old 05-19-2020, 01:08 PM
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That is President Tweety for now on. Biden has nicknamed him.
  #184  
Old 05-19-2020, 01:10 PM
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That is President Tweety for now on. Biden has nicknamed him.
  #185  
Old 05-19-2020, 01:14 PM
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You guys know Tara Reade so well though, you've really been able to project your thoughts right into her and discover so much.
I wouldn't claim to know her well. I would say that the more I learn about her and her claims, the less credible I find them to be.
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Old 05-19-2020, 01:21 PM
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It's hard to believe anyone cannot see this is a made-up accusation that is among the first salvo in what will prove to be a very dirty campaign on Chump's part.
Well, we also had Christine "I'm not a Witch" O'Donnell and her niece and their "Biden talked about my niece's boobs at an event! Every second of it forever seared into my memory! Wait, he wasn't at that event? Well, it was the year BEFORE that then! He was halfway across the country during that event? Well, it totally happened anyway!!!" story.
  #187  
Old 05-19-2020, 01:51 PM
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I’d be interested to know where all this trenchant skepticism was during the Kavanaugh hearings...
I am so tired of Kavanaugh being brought up here since the circumstances are considerably different. Especially as in Kavanaugh's case she came forward as soon as his name hit national news. However, in that case I said (and posted) her memories were so old as to be worthless and her testimony should not be counted upon. Same here but with like a half dozen other reasons for not believing Reade.
  #188  
Old 05-19-2020, 01:57 PM
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  #189  
Old 05-19-2020, 02:02 PM
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It matters not. Either he is guilty or he is not. Both of them should be unfit for public office. But especially Biden since he hitched his horse, wagon, house, and cars to the #metoo movement. ...
....
Ok, so the GOP and Kremlin pays off a known liar to make a false accusation vs a Candidate, so sure, let's disqualify him. So then another false accusation, and another and another and another. Until no Dem candidates are left standing. There is already proof that GOP operatives have done exactly that in the case of Dr Fauci.

And so Biden is worse since he is a known supporter of womens rights and trump is just the opposite?
  #190  
Old 05-19-2020, 03:36 PM
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Ok, so the GOP and Kremlin pays off a known liar to make a false accusation vs a Candidate, so sure, let's disqualify him. So then another false accusation, and another and another and another. Until no Dem candidates are left standing. There is already proof that GOP operatives have done exactly that in the case of Dr Fauci.

And so Biden is worse since he is a known supporter of womens rights and trump is just the opposite?
And Lindsey Graham specifically said that that was going to be their strategy.
  #191  
Old 05-19-2020, 04:30 PM
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  #192  
Old 05-19-2020, 06:59 PM
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Yep, and they paid off "Roe" also:
https://www.latimes.com/entertainmen...X-zvjH-jaVmg5A

https://www.thedailybeast.com/jane-r...hristian-right
AKA Jane Roe finds documents disclosing at least $456,911 in “benevolent gifts” from the anti-abortion movement to McCorvey.
  #193  
Old 05-21-2020, 06:18 AM
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I think it's fine to say we don't know and it is certainly weird to say I am going after Biden in any way.

We don't need everything wrapped up in a nice neat little package, that's for TV.

But just because I read an article about how Tara Reade was bad at paying for sick horses and lied to landlords about her rent situation and I don't jump to disbelieving her it doesn't mean I am a bad man.

What if someone got fingered by Biden and then got rich horse people to pay her sick horse money to a vet? They still got fingered without consent.

Biden certainly has a reputation for liking to proposition staffers:
https://www.counterpunch.org/2016/10...l-in-st-louis/

It is harmful to victims of sexual assault to say you know nothing happened here.

We don't know.
  #194  
Old 05-21-2020, 06:49 AM
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Biden certainly has a reputation for liking to proposition staffers:
https://www.counterpunch.org/2016/10...l-in-st-louis/
Is that the citation you meant to post? Because I don’t think it means what you think it means.

That’s an opinion piece from October 2016 which uses a HRC-Trump “townhall” debate to launch a supercilious, misinformed and kinda lame attack-from-the-left on Clinton. More to the point, the author of this (I mention again) opinion piece never even mentions Biden. He spends a paragraph giving unwarranted weight to allegations against former VP Al Gore (which he brings up in response to Al’s work on behalf of Clinton 2016 campaign), perhaps that’s what you were pointing at?

If this is typical of your informational sources, maybe it would be appropriate to reexamine some of the things you “know” about politics. Just a suggestion.

Last edited by xenophon41; 05-21-2020 at 06:51 AM. Reason: Removed excessive personal examination.
  #195  
Old 05-21-2020, 06:59 AM
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Is that the citation you meant to post? Because I don’t think it means what you think it means.

That’s an opinion piece from October 2016 which uses a HRC-Trump “townhall” debate to launch a supercilious, misinformed and kinda lame attack-from-the-left on Clinton. More to the point, the author of this (I mention again) opinion piece never even mentions Biden.
The piece mentions “Joe Biden (who had a notorious reputation for “hitting on” senate staffers, including the wife of a longtime CounterPunch writer)”.
  #196  
Old 05-21-2020, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by The Other Waldo Pepper View Post
The piece mentions “Joe Biden (who had a notorious reputation for “hitting on” senate staffers, including the wife of a longtime CounterPunch writer)”.
OK. Found it. Thank you, and I should've used the browser's "Find on this page" function the first time.

My comment stands. An unsupported slur in a hit piece column (used in the same way the allegations against Gore are used, to smear Clinton by association and innuendo) is no basis for declaring "Biden certainly has a reputation..." for any specific behavior. It's like citing Trump's unpaid building contractors about his proclivity for paying off porn stars; maybe there's something there, but your source is entirely speculative and biased. You might as well be ghost writing a Maureen Dowd column.
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  #197  
Old 05-21-2020, 07:46 AM
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Indeed..."Believe Women" is actually a slogan of the #MeToo movement.

Clearly you completely misunderstand it though.

Only the fringiest of people will say you just believe any accusation a woman says.

Nearly all #MeToo adherents will tell you it means the accusation should always be taken seriously and dutifully investigated. That's it.

Yet you seem to be under the impression that any accusation by a woman is all it takes. You could not be more wrong about that.
Ahh yes, I understood it perfectly. How many of you are pushing for investigation?

Versus the myriad of people saying "I'm voting for him anyway", or simply disbelieve.

Tell me more about #metoo! While you then gloss over the fact that the belief (that would lead to an investigation) has been pushed aside because it's your team.
  #198  
Old 05-21-2020, 07:51 AM
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Ok, so the GOP and Kremlin pays off a known liar to make a false accusation vs a Candidate, so sure, let's disqualify him. So then another false accusation, and another and another and another. Until no Dem candidates are left standing. There is already proof that GOP operatives have done exactly that in the case of Dr Fauci.

And so Biden is worse since he is a known supporter of womens rights and trump is just the opposite?
You misunderstand.

I don't think an accusation should be enough to disqualify ANYONE. But if it is good enough for the other guy, it better be good enough for YOUR guy too.

And yet, where was all this staunch belief of the same for Kavanaugh.

Not a single thing PROVEN, but here we have all manner of people telling us how he shouldn't have been and shouldn't be on the bench.

And then hypocritically want to explain the differences. Until you get some proof, expect laughter.
  #199  
Old 05-21-2020, 07:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Kearsen1 View Post
Ahh yes, I understood it perfectly. How many of you are pushing for investigation?

Versus the myriad of people saying "I'm voting for him anyway", or simply disbelieve.

Tell me more about #metoo! While you then gloss over the fact that the belief (that would lead to an investigation) has been pushed aside because it's your team.
I think ALL accusations against Presidential candidates should be investigated fully, and the results published for the voting public to see.

How does that sound?
  #200  
Old 05-21-2020, 07:59 AM
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In the reality that I observed, the same people wanting unbiased investigation of the allegations against Kavanaugh (and who may have thought his record in government and in response to the allegations disqualified him from SCOTUS) are also wanting unbiased investigation of the Reade allegation. The differences between those two cases have been mentioned already, but those differences do exist and account for the differing levels of credulity afforded to each set of allegations by those people (me included).
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