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  #251  
Old 05-22-2020, 04:01 PM
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I've uncovered further evidence of Biden lying so now we don't know who to believe.

It's so tricky with all these people who are definitely lying about sexual abuse because they lied in the past.

In Biden's case now it is because he lied about getting arrested in South Africa for being a not-racsist and being good at college school work.

Pattern of lying, don't believe him.
  #252  
Old 05-22-2020, 04:17 PM
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I've uncovered further evidence of Biden lying
Wow, exciting! Have you told the New York Times? But if you want a big payoff, probably best to go directly to the Trump reelection campaign.
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Old 05-22-2020, 04:55 PM
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Just to clarify, K9, were we to discover that Biden had actually assaulted someone, I'd rather a brokered convention select a back-up myself. But assuming it's too late for that, if it's down to Biden v Trump, then that choice is still easy. I would think it's a shitty individual against a shitty individual, but I'd be voting for a sane and progressive party against a shitty party, so yeah, one-time sex offender over a guy who brags about sex offenses on a hot mic who represents a party of sociopaths - every time.
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Old 05-22-2020, 05:09 PM
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Just to clarify, K9, were we to discover that Biden had actually assaulted someone, I'd rather a brokered convention select a back-up myself. But assuming it's too late for that, if it's down to Biden v Trump, then that choice is still easy. I would think it's a shitty individual against a shitty individual, but I'd be voting for a sane and progressive party against a shitty party, so yeah, one-time sex offender over a guy who brags about sex offenses on a hot mic who represents a party of sociopaths - every time.
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Old 05-22-2020, 06:01 PM
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I've uncovered further evidence of Biden lying so now we don't know who to believe
You realize, it's not just "Oh, Reade lied about her dress size" or "Reade lied about having read Moby Dick" or "Reade lied about having seen Cheap Trick in concert". This is about Reade lying about things to grift people and Reade lying about her time working in Biden's office and Reade lying about her credentials as they tie to assault and abuse survivors. And, of course, Reade's ever-changing story regarding the alleged assault. If you can tie Biden talking about S. Africa or college or plagiarizing from speeches, etc to his defense of these allegations then you should do that. Throwing out some "Biden told a lie lol now I guess it's a tie!" nonsense just looks weak.
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Old 05-22-2020, 07:35 PM
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Wow, exciting! Have you told the New York Times? But if you want a big payoff, probably best to go directly to the Trump reelection campaign.
Yes I think you are mostly there in understanding. This isn't about cheerleading for a side or getting paid to say things. It's about dismissing claims of sexual harassment for bad reasons.

It's harmful to victims of abuse. You don't have to have a perfect past to have been a victim.

That tense feeling of how to tie reality to ingrained thoughts is good if you don't fight it too much. It's like a seatbelt holding you. Gentle does it and there's no latch to open the seatbelt. Possibly a bad analogy.
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Old 05-22-2020, 07:57 PM
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It's about dismissing claims of sexual harassment for bad reasons.
But she's clearly got no credibility, and the specific details in her allegations are implausible -- that's a good reason to

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It's harmful to victims of abuse. You don't have to have a perfect past to have been a victim.
But her story isn't real, so you can stop worrying about her and focus more on real victims.

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That tense feeling of how to tie reality to ingrained thoughts is good if you don't fight it too much. It's like a seatbelt holding you. Gentle does it and there's no latch to open the seatbelt. Possibly a bad analogy.
?
  #258  
Old 05-22-2020, 10:07 PM
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I'm pretty sure the point is "Some actresses and some people on Twitter are hypocrites, therefore all liberals everywhere are hypocrites"

It's pretty much the same as almost every political argument. People can post hundreds of wrong things actual Republican/conservative members of government do, and someone posts a tweet from some liberal moron and says "See! Both parties are the same!"
This seems unfair. 48 Democrat senators voted against Kavanaugh; the most stated reason for voting again Kavanaugh was due to the testimony of one person. Susan Collins was lambasted for daring to confirm him. Democrats were certainly willing to act like all women should be believed when it was politically expedient. Now...not so much. So yeah, I'd say at least on this stage both parties are equally hypocritical (although in different ways).

If Democrats were to come out and say "Mea culpa; we were wrong to put so much weight behind a single accusation. We will try not to do that again." then they'd be better than the Republicans. I'm not holding my breath.
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Old 05-23-2020, 07:33 AM
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Talking about the strategist who worked to keep rapist Harvey Weinstein clean now working for Biden:
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We know this, eh?

Cite, please
Anita Dunn is her name

Last edited by tomndebb; 05-23-2020 at 07:07 PM. Reason: Note regarding this post appears in Post #288.
  #260  
Old 05-23-2020, 08:29 AM
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Talking about the strategist who worked to keep rapist Harvey Weinstein clean now working for Biden:


Anita Dunn is her name
Comrade, in Mother Russia, slip show you.
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  #261  
Old 05-23-2020, 09:15 AM
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Comrade, in Mother Russia, slip show you.
Woah.
  #262  
Old 05-23-2020, 09:22 AM
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Comrade, in Mother Russia, slip show you.
QS, normally this would violate the new Russsia policy but I can understand.

Please be careful going forward.
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Old 05-23-2020, 09:42 AM
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QS, normally this would violate the new Russsia policy but I can understand.

Please be careful going forward.
Thanks for the leeway. Will do.
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  #264  
Old 05-23-2020, 10:32 AM
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Sorry, wrong link. Crikey you people are touchy about Russia. Cold war is over dudes.
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article...rvey-weinstein
  #265  
Old 05-23-2020, 10:57 AM
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That article is old, incomplete, and misleading, and goes back to when Weinstein's troubles were just beginning. He reached out to Dunn for PR support and she basically told him to go away and own up to his misdeeds and had nothing further to do with him. How you interpret that as "worked to keep rapist Harvey Weinstein clean" is incomprehensible.
  #266  
Old 05-23-2020, 11:14 AM
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How you interpret that as "worked to keep rapist Harvey Weinstein clean" is incomprehensible.
Nah, it's pretty easy to comprehend. Reade's sham is exposed so now it's "somethingsomething Biden something Anita Dunn somethingsomething Weinstein!"

In more positive news, they're going to be reviewing the court cases Reade was involved in so hopefully anyone wrongly convicted because of her lies can find justice and at least one attorney for a convicted person is going to be subpoenaing her academic records so we can learn the truth. Shame it had to come out of her smear attempts on Biden but someone perhaps finding justice is something of a silver lining.
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Old 05-23-2020, 11:55 AM
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Nah, it's pretty easy to comprehend. Reade's sham is exposed so now it's "somethingsomething Biden something Anita Dunn somethingsomething Weinstein!"

In more positive news, they're going to be reviewing the court cases Reade was involved in so hopefully anyone wrongly convicted because of her lies can find justice and at least one attorney for a convicted person is going to be subpoenaing her academic records so we can learn the truth. Shame it had to come out of her smear attempts on Biden but someone perhaps finding justice is something of a silver lining.
And even worse, a guilty person may go free. All because of Reade’s twisted world of lies, half truths and scams.

I hope her law degree gets revoked as well.
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  #268  
Old 05-23-2020, 12:17 PM
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Yes I think you are mostly there in understanding. This isn't about cheerleading for a side or getting paid to say things. It's about dismissing claims of sexual harassment for bad reasons.

It's harmful to victims of abuse. You don't have to have a perfect past to have been a victim.
This. As I have said before, I don't believe Raede. But if these allegations were against a Republican the #metoo movement would be making statements like this. Just because she ripped off her landlord doesn't mean she cannot be sexually assaulted; just because she lied about her credentials doesn't mean she cannot be sexually assaulted; predators prey on imperfect people because they know that nobody will believe them, etc.

They may get Biden elected this year, but thank goodness this is the absolute death of the #metoo hypocrites.
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Old 05-23-2020, 12:21 PM
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But Kavanaugh's response to them absolutely was damning. When the best defense you have against "He tried to rape me at an underaged drinking party" is to produce a list of all of your many underaged drinking parties during that time frame, that's a problem. And when your best answer to "Are you an alcoholic?" is "I like beer. Do you like beer?", it should be clear that you have no place in any courtroom, much less the Supreme Court.
I'm not following this at all. If you are accused of raping someone at an underaged drinking party and the allegation is false, but you are interested in full disclosure, what is wrong with saying: Yes, admittedly I did drink and attend parties where alcohol was served when I was underage, and I did frequently, however I never sexually assaulted or attempted to sexually assault anyone." Seems reasonable to me.

If you are asked if you are an alcoholic, again, it seems reasonable to say, "No, but I do enjoy beer a good bit."

You sort of drifted from it being damning evidence of guilt to an indictment on his temperament to be a judge. As far as the temperment issue, there is a world of difference in sitting as a neutral third party hearing conflicting evidence and responding to allegations against you personally that you know are false.
  #270  
Old 05-23-2020, 01:10 PM
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thank goodness this is the absolute death of the #metoo hypocrites.
...so an utterly minuscule portion of #MeToo supporters. #MeToo is surviving and thriving as more and more Americans realize and learn how prevalent sexual assault and rape (and their junior cousins like sexual harassment) are, and how utterly monstrously most survivors are treated.

Unfortunately the Trumpers and the GOP are being left behind. But that's a choice you're making, to be a part of that -- you can make a different choice, if you want, and join us in a future that makes a real effort to treat women better, and to hold men and institutions accountable for abuse and other bad behavior.
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Old 05-23-2020, 01:52 PM
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...so an utterly minuscule portion of #MeToo supporters. #MeToo is surviving and thriving as more and more Americans realize and learn how prevalent sexual assault and rape (and their junior cousins like sexual harassment) are, and how utterly monstrously most survivors are treated.

Unfortunately the Trumpers and the GOP are being left behind. But that's a choice you're making, to be a part of that -- you can make a different choice, if you want, and join us in a future that makes a real effort to treat women better, and to hold men and institutions accountable for abuse and other bad behavior.
The lesson from this incident will do no such thing. This incident teaches that if you make an allegation against a Republican, it will be believe as true, but if it is against a Democrat, you will not be believed.

I know you mean well, but by dismissing Raede but blindingly believing Ford, those on your side have exposed it for the subjective evaluation that it is.

How many people in this thread and the prior one said that even if Joe Biden was guilty of raping her, they would vote for him anyways? Is that a success in your estimation? Is that treating women better or holding men accountable?

And before this becomes a but he's better than Trump, these individuals could easily start lobbying the DNC not to nominate someone who, under his own proposals, would be expelled from a university.
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Old 05-23-2020, 02:13 PM
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The lesson from this incident will do no such thing. This incident teaches that if you make an allegation against a Republican, it will be believe as true, but if it is against a Democrat, you will not be believed.

I know you mean well, but by dismissing Raede but blindingly believing Ford, those on your side have exposed it for the subjective evaluation that it is.

How many people in this thread and the prior one said that even if Joe Biden was guilty of raping her, they would vote for him anyways? Is that a success in your estimation? Is that treating women better or holding men accountable?

And before this becomes a but he's better than Trump, these individuals could easily start lobbying the DNC not to nominate someone who, under his own proposals, would be expelled from a university.
Maybe a handful of Democrats approached this in a hypocritical way. But most, on this board and elsewhere, were much more nuanced. Most Democrats, both in office and us "little folks", advocated the same thing for both the Ford and Reade allegations (and those against Trump, for that matter) -- treat them seriously and investigate them thoroughly.

Investigating this one thoroughly appears to have worked out well for Biden, at least so far. The artificial restrictions placed on the Ford allegations that prevented an actual serious and thorough investigation by the FBI may have worked out for Kavanaugh (he was ultimately confirmed, of course)... but if he's totally innocent of the accusations, maybe an unhindered, serious, and thorough investigation would have supported his story. So maybe a real investigation would have worked better for him (then again, maybe not, if he really did do some of that stuff while drunk).

The Democrats are still on the right side of this issue, at least compared to Republicans. Does it really not bother you at all that Democrats treat allegations and accusations seriously, even against their own, while Republicans do not? It should. It should bother anyone who cares about decency and treatment of women. And if it does bother you, what are you doing about it? What do you plan to do about it? Will it ever affect the way you vote -- and if not, why not?
  #273  
Old 05-23-2020, 02:16 PM
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The lesson from this incident will do no such thing. This incident teaches that if you make an allegation against a Republican, it will be believe as true, but if it is against a Democrat, you will not be believed.
Right, because Al Franken and John Conyers never happened.
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Old 05-23-2020, 02:18 PM
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How many people in this thread and the prior one said that even if Joe Biden was guilty of raping her, they would vote for him anyways? Is that a success in your estimation? Is that treating women better or holding men accountable?
All of those people believe Trump is guilty of multiple sexual assaults, so I'm not sure what you think your point is. If both major candidates are rapists, you're a hypocrite if you don't throw your vote away on whomever the Greens or Libertarians are nominating?
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Old 05-23-2020, 02:26 PM
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Maybe a handful of Democrats approached this in a hypocritical way. But most, on this board and elsewhere, were much more nuanced. Most Democrats, both in office and us "little folks", advocated the same thing for both the Ford and Reade allegations (and those against Trump, for that matter) -- treat them seriously and investigate them thoroughly.

Investigating this one thoroughly appears to have worked out well for Biden, at least so far. The artificial restrictions placed on the Ford allegations that prevented an actual serious and thorough investigation by the FBI may have worked out for Kavanaugh (he was ultimately confirmed, of course)... but if he's totally innocent of the accusations, maybe an unhindered, serious, and thorough investigation would have supported his story. So maybe a real investigation would have worked better for him (then again, maybe not, if he really did do some of that stuff while drunk).

The Democrats are still on the right side of this issue, at least compared to Republicans. Does it really not bother you at all that Democrats treat allegations and accusations seriously, even against their own, while Republicans do not? It should. It should bother anyone who cares about decency and treatment of women. And if it does bother you, what are you doing about it? What do you plan to do about it? Will it ever affect the way you vote -- and if not, why not?
What investigation was had into Biden? Do I understand you to say that the FBI conducting an investigation is not a real investigation but one done by the New York Times is?

My response to this issue is to education young women. Take precautions. If you are sexually assaulted, make an immediate outcry, preserve evidence, etc. Don't expect anyone to believe you 25 or 35 years later.


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Right, because Al Franken and John Conyers never happened.
Call me when you do it when it means something. Both of those guys were replaced by Democrats so they could be the burnt offerings to the #metoo movement without any harm befalling the party. If the Minnesota Governor had been a Republican who would have replaced Franken, I am convinced that we would have heard a lot of the same stuff, "you can't tell where his hands are in the picture, his accusers are Russian operatives, he was a comedian!, it was a different time, etc."

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All of those people believe Trump is guilty of multiple sexual assaults, so I'm not sure what you think your point is. If both major candidates are rapists, you're a hypocrite if you don't throw your vote away on whomever the Greens or Libertarians are nominating?
I stated exactly what to do. Demand that the DNC not nominate him. Demand he resign. I'm not saying Bernie. I'm saying come up with a different candidate to support. You don't have to vote for Trump or waste your vote on a third party.
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Old 05-23-2020, 02:41 PM
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The lesson from this incident will do no such thing. This incident teaches that if you make an allegation against a Republican, it will be believe as true, but if it is against a Democrat, you will not be believed.

I know you mean well, but by dismissing Raede but blindingly believing Ford, those on your side have exposed it for the subjective evaluation that it is.....
First of all, I also dismissed Ford- memories that old are worthless.

Next- both were investigated. After the media looked into both Ford seemed believable, and Kavanagh admitted to be a big party hardy guy. In the end, the charges against Kavanaugh were not considered worthy. Ford also brought forth her accusation as soon as K became national news, and Ford didnt materially change her story.

Reade OTOH, has been shown to be a first class liar, lying about nearly everything. She somehow forgot that assault when Biden was up for Veep, then came out with a hugging story, then changed that to forcible rape as soon as Biden was the presumptive nominee. Her memory is also so old as to be worthless. One of Reades lawyers had worked for the kremlin, the other was a bit trump supporter. Reade also admitted have a sexual crush on Putin. Reade story has also been investigated and found to be impossible as to location. and so forth.

So both stories were looked into, and Ford came out more believable but not enuf to stop Kavanaugh, as Ford had no evidence and it occurred so very long ago. Reade story is clearly false. She isnt believable at all.

This is exactly what is supposed to happen. Women are supposed to be given a fair chance to tell their "me too" stories and they should be fairly investigated. So, the two stories are not that same, and the Democrats are not hypocritical for accepting one (which was weak, due to it's age,but plausible) and rejecting the other as it is clearly 100% fake.

If we just accept all stories- no matter how unbelievable- no Democrat will ever be elected again, as the GOP and kremlin will simply come up with a paid accuser against all candidates. Just as they did with Dr Fauci, and IMHO with Reade. The GOP seems to think that accusations of this sort are a reason to vote for their candidate, not against. You cant fight that sort of viewpoint.

So everyone -stop with the Kavanaugh comparisons, they are not on the same level at all.
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Old 05-23-2020, 02:48 PM
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What investigation was had into Biden? Do I understand you to say that the FBI conducting an investigation is not a real investigation but one done by the New York Times is?
.....


I stated exactly what to do. Demand that the DNC not nominate him. Demand he resign. I'm not saying Bernie. I'm saying come up with a different candidate to support. You don't have to vote for Trump or waste your vote on a third party.
Several very good reporters conducted a investigation into both Reade and Biden. Hundreds of people were interviewed. Reades story was disproved.

If the Dems do that- trump wins. Period. First of all, the Sanders supporters (30%)will get REALLY butthurt if it aint Bernie. And the rest of the Dems (60%) dont like Bernie.

Next- whoever it is, the kremlin or the GOP or both will simply pay yet another woman to lie and claim rape. perhaps if the candidate is a woman, they will get a male, but the result will be the same. You dont think they can do this vs Sanders?

If the Dems give in- after such a patently false accusation- then why not keep using it? Lock at Roe- Paid off by the Evangelicals, and the Dr Fauci rape accuser- paid for by GOP operatives.

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Old 05-23-2020, 02:49 PM
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What investigation was had into Biden? Do I understand you to say that the FBI conducting an investigation is not a real investigation but one done by the New York Times is?
There was no serious investigation by the FBI into Ford's allegations -- it was artificially restricted in time and scope. They didn't even interview Ford!

For whatever reason, journalists have really dug into Reade's allegations. Maybe because Biden is still a candidate, and the election is still in the future? With Kavanaugh, it all happened pretty damn fast, and then he was confirmed -- and I only recall a relatively lesser amount of journalistic investigations into Ford and her allegations. Maybe the news considered it past and done.

But whatever those reasons are, lots of new info about Reade and her allegations have come out since she made her accusations. After Ford's allegation, and after a couple of others came out against Kavanaugh, he was confirmed shortly after, and then there wasn't much else.

If the FBI hadn't been restricted in time and scope, they could have interviewed EVERYONE, including Judge, Ford, and Kavanaugh themselves, as well as digging into employment records and other records (which journalists often can't get) which might have narrowed down the potential timeframe of the alleged assault, which could further be used to narrow down potential attendees/witnesses, etc. All standard investigation stuff, which journalists sometimes can't do as well as law enforcement.

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My response to this issue is to education young women. Take precautions. If you are sexually assaulted, make an immediate outcry, preserve evidence, etc. Don't expect anyone to believe you 25 or 35 years later.
This is very convenient for you. It means you never have to challenge Trump or the Republican party in general about how they handle these things. You're making this very easy on yourself, very easy on your party, and very easy on Trump.

I choose to challenge my party and my leaders to treat women better, to own up to past mistakes, and to recognize how poorly our society treats women. Why not join me? Why choose to make it so easy for admitted abusers like Trump?
  #279  
Old 05-23-2020, 03:05 PM
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So everyone -stop with the Kavanaugh comparisons, they are not on the same level at all.
Only when you look at them through a partisan lense. Both were uncompelling IMHO, Ford's no less or more so than Raede's. Ford had supported several liberal causes and did not politically support Kavanaugh, but none of any of that would be enough in a typical #metoo context. Women of all political persuasions can be sexually assaulted, and will change their stories, tell contradictory stories, and will wait until someone is being appointed to a higher position, either out of malice if it is false, or out of a sense of duty to prevent the person from attaining the higher office if it is true.

There is simply nothing that makes Ford's or Raede's story any different in a dispassionate non-partisan context.

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Several very good reporters conducted a investigation into both Reade and Biden. Hundreds of people were interviewed. Reades story was disproved.

If the Dems do that- trump wins. Period. First of all, the Sanders supporters (30%)will get REALLY butthurt if it aint Bernie. And the rest of the Dems (60%) dont like Bernie.

Next- whoever it is, the kremlin or the GOP or both will simply pay yet another woman to lie and claim rape. perhaps if the candidate is a woman, they will get a male, but the result will be the same. You dont think they can do this vs Sanders?

If the Dems give in- after such a patently false accusation- then why not keep using it? Lock at Roe- Paid off by the Evangelicals, and the Dr Fauci rape accuser- paid for by GOP operatives.
And you don't think the Dems have any dirty trick machines?

Look, if the GOP was paying off so many people, why can't they pay off yet another accuser against Biden, but vet this one so she hasn't left a paper trial and leave out any specificities just like Ford did? Raede's story has not been "disproved" by any sense of that word. What you are saying is that in your subjective judgment (and I share that judgment) that her story is false. It could have happened.

Sure having Biden withdraw would lead to more false allegations---the exact argument made by Kavanaugh supporters---but Biden has to lie in the bed of his own making here.

As another poster said upthread, if he would come out and say something like, "Wow, I didn't realize how someone could make a patently false allegation like that for no reason. Now that I understand it, we need to tweak some of the things we are doing and dial back some of the rhetoric here." But he isn't, and he should be called out on it. How many innocent young men have been expelled from college because of what Joe Biden has helped to enact into law? These questions are more than fair.
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Old 05-23-2020, 03:14 PM
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This is very convenient for you. It means you never have to challenge Trump or the Republican party in general about how they handle these things. You're making this very easy on yourself, very easy on your party, and very easy on Trump.

I choose to challenge my party and my leaders to treat women better, to own up to past mistakes, and to recognize how poorly our society treats women. Why not join me? Why choose to make it so easy for admitted abusers like Trump?
Let's just focus on this (and no, Trump has not "admitted" to abusing women; I have no interest in doing the "you can grab 'em by the pussy debate" which has been done to death, was grandiose bragging to Billy Bush about how women consented to allow him to do what he wanted because he was a celebrity. "They don't care.").

How are women not "taken seriously" in your estimate? Because in my profession, when an allegation is made against a man, he is in big trouble and had better be ready to prove his innocence. Look at Crystal Magnum for example. Completely ridiculous allegation, but if those guys had not been rich and hired good attorneys and good investigators, they would have done prison time. If instead of Duke students, they were black kids living in the Triangle who pooled enough money together to hire strippers, they would still be in prison.

So explain, from your experience, how when a woman makes an allegation of sexual assault is she not "taken seriously"? Yes, they question her. They have to establish the elements of the crime. Yes, like any accuser for any crime, they will look for possible motives to falsify. Where does this summary dismissal happen?
  #281  
Old 05-23-2020, 03:28 PM
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Only when you look at them through a partisan lense. Both were uncompelling IMHO, Ford's no less or more so than Raede's. Ford had supported several liberal causes and did not politically support Kavanaugh, but none of any of that would be enough in a typical #metoo context. ....

There is simply nothing that makes Ford's or Raede's story any different in a dispassionate non-partisan context.



And you don't think the Dems have any dirty trick machines?

Look, if the GOP was paying off so many people, why can't they pay off yet another accuser against Biden, but vet this one so she hasn't left a paper trial and leave out any specificities just like Ford did? Raede's story has not been "disproved" by any sense of that word. What you are saying is that in your subjective judgment (and I share that judgment) that her story is false. It could have happened.

Sure having Biden withdraw would lead to more false allegations---the exact argument made by Kavanaugh supporters---but Biden has to lie in the bed of his own making here.
....
Ford wasn't proven to be a serial liar.

Yes, indeed Reade's story has been disproven. Altho she tried to be vague as to when and where so it couldnt be disproven, investigators have shown that her location is totally false, it could not possibly have happened in even her vague description of where. Investigated and disproven.


The GOP has paid women to make false rape claims. The Dems havent had anything even vaguely like that.

Dont worry, they will. Once the media has more or less dumped Reade- and that pretty much has happened- the GOP will put up another accuser. Maybe not rape, but something else. Swiftboating worked, they wont stop.

Trump is a admitted sexual abuser, and he brags about it. He bragged about "grabbing them by the pussy". But the MAGA hat wearers still support him, they glorify in his tales of sexual assault. You are a trump voter?

Biden admitted he is a hugger- and not checking into seeing if those hugs, etc are wanted first. He has said he was wrong and has stopped. Hugging, even when unwanted, is not anything at all like violent rape.
  #282  
Old 05-23-2020, 03:33 PM
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Let's just focus on this (and no, Trump has not "admitted" to abusing women; I have no interest in doing the "you can grab 'em by the pussy debate" which has been done to death, was grandiose bragging to Billy Bush about how women consented to allow him to do what he wanted because he was a celebrity. "They don't care.")....
Trump admitted and bragged about being a sexual voyeur in beauty contests, some of which were with underaged girls.

He also has TWENTYFIVE accusations.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald...ct_allegations

https://www.businessinsider.com/wome...t-list-2017-12

https://www.usnews.com/opinion/artic...sexual-assault
  #283  
Old 05-23-2020, 03:44 PM
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How are women not "taken seriously" in your estimate?
Most women still don't come forward, and when they do, their lives turn upside down. Only rarely does anything actually come of their allegations. Those rare incidents almost always make the news -- we don't hear about the great majority in which nothing happens except the woman's life being upended.
  #284  
Old 05-23-2020, 04:31 PM
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predators prey on imperfect people because they know that nobody will believe them, etc.
While broadly true, there's no evidence that this was the case here. Multiple staffers from that time expressed that Biden spent very little time with the junior staff and didn't really know them. Much less enough about them to find the one who is "imperfect" enough that no one would believe her story three decades later.
  #285  
Old 05-23-2020, 06:29 PM
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Let's just focus on this (and no, Trump has not "admitted" to abusing women; I have no interest in doing the "you can grab 'em by the pussy debate" which has been done to death, was grandiose bragging to Billy Bush about how women consented to allow him to do what he wanted because he was a celebrity. "They don't care."). ...
Neither in Trump's own words, nor in the accounts of his many accusers, is there any evidence that the women "consented."

You appear to be making an argument along the lines of 'if she doesn't scream, then she is consenting' or 'if she doesn't file charges immediately, then she consented.'

Is that appearance correct?---is that what you are arguing?
  #286  
Old 05-23-2020, 06:39 PM
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The idea that Trump even understands what consent means is too ludicrous to consider.
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  #287  
Old 05-23-2020, 06:42 PM
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The idea that Trump even understands what consent means is too ludicrous to consider.
I agree; Trump lives by the rule of the badly-behaved toddler (me do what me want).

But what I was asking about was the argument being advanced by UltraVires in that particular (quoted) post.
  #288  
Old 05-23-2020, 07:05 PM
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Talking about the strategist who worked to keep rapist Harvey Weinstein clean now working for Biden:


Anita Dunn is her name
I am not sure what you were attempting, here, but a link to a Wikipedia page in Russian violates the SDMB protocol of only posting in English. That the same page appears in English with no reference to Anita Dunn, the person you identified as the target of your information, almost makes it look as though you were playing games with both the language and the citation.
I will hold off citing you as a troll, but you had better be very careful to avoid this sort of "confusion" in the future.


[ Moderating ]
  #289  
Old 05-23-2020, 07:14 PM
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Sorry, wrong link. Crikey you people are touchy about Russia. Cold war is over dudes.
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article...rvey-weinstein
The Cold War is over, but if you may have paid attention to news reports from the last several years, you might be aware that there is substantial evidence that Russia has been interfering with the election process of the U.S.
I will accept that your Noted post, above, may have been simply a typo, but you might want to double check any post you submit in the future to make sure that you have not accidentally cited a similar reference.
  #290  
Old 05-23-2020, 11:24 PM
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It's not even the right Tara Reid.
  #291  
Old 05-24-2020, 12:23 AM
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The comparison to Kavanaugh doesn't make sense. That wasn't a case of Ford going to the media and the media putting out a poorly vetted story. That allegation leaked from Diane Feinstein's office. And there was no hard evidence Ford was lying (and no hard evidence she was telling the truth either.) A better comparison is the Katie Johnson allegation against Trump. She filed a lawsuit claiming Trump raped her when she was 13. There were so many red flags with the case, the media, including liberal outlets, mostly avoided covering it.

Yet the media covered the Reade allegations even though there were a ton of red flags. Reporters in Washington had to have known that the location where the assault supposedly happened had a lot of foot traffic, a heavy police presence, and even in 1993 a security camera system. They had to have known that Reade wouldn't have been asked to serve drinks at a fundraiser because union workers did those jobs. 1993 was the height of the Bob Packwood scandal when even minor complaints were taken seriously, which should have raised serious doubts about a formal complaint being filed. Despite all this, the media mostly waited a whole month before addressing the problems with the allegation.

The media, including liberals, avoided an allegation against Trump because there were so many red flags, but that same media, including liberals, treated Biden as guilty until he was proven innocent. There were calls for Biden to withdraw and headlines like "Democrats, It's Time to Consider a Plan B." Why the different treatment for Trump and Biden with equally sketchy allegations?
  #292  
Old 05-24-2020, 05:54 AM
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The comparison to Kavanaugh doesn't make sense. That wasn't a case of Ford going to the media and the media putting out a poorly vetted story. That allegation leaked from Diane Feinstein's office. And there was no hard evidence Ford was lying (and no hard evidence she was telling the truth either.) A better comparison is the Katie Johnson allegation against Trump. She filed a lawsuit claiming Trump raped her when she was 13. There were so many red flags with the case, the media, including liberal outlets, mostly avoided covering it.

Yet the media covered the Reade allegations even though there were a ton of red flags. Reporters in Washington had to have known that the location where the assault supposedly happened had a lot of foot traffic, a heavy police presence, and even in 1993 a security camera system. They had to have known that Reade wouldn't have been asked to serve drinks at a fundraiser because union workers did those jobs. 1993 was the height of the Bob Packwood scandal when even minor complaints were taken seriously, which should have raised serious doubts about a formal complaint being filed. Despite all this, the media mostly waited a whole month before addressing the problems with the allegation.

The media, including liberals, avoided an allegation against Trump because there were so many red flags, but that same media, including liberals, treated Biden as guilty until he was proven innocent. There were calls for Biden to withdraw and headlines like "Democrats, It's Time to Consider a Plan B." Why the different treatment for Trump and Biden with equally sketchy allegations?
I think the mainstream media basically ignored Reade for the first month because they took a quick look at it and realized it was a really flawed story and was pushed hard by The Intercept and other sketchy places on the intercept. Concurrently some of those pushing the story hardest were also pushing for Bernie to unsuspend his campaign and become the nominee.

But, the smoke got to be too much and some of the more mainstream blogs and commentators picked it up, too often waffling. ‘Something probably happened to make her feel uncomfortable’

But, then the Reade people overplayed their hand and getting it onto MSNBC was the beginning of the end. And, people who thought the story was sketchy from the get go did their probing and exposed Reade as someone who has an adult past full of lies, scams, half truths and manipulative behavior.

I do find it interesting that the Reade story starting getting pushed on Twitter right at the same time Bernie fired Sirota and Gray, his two most radical surrogates that had gone unhinged when Bernie suspended.

The Trump with the 13 year old was so sketchy that no one took it seriously and there was so much other material against Trump.
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  #293  
Old 05-25-2020, 09:24 AM
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As such there is nothing remotely odd about it, and your "murder by a neighbor" analogy is not on point.
I agree that there is nothing odd about it, but for a different reason: By saying that, instead of the opposite alternative, something like "she should just shut up", Biden looks reasonable and projects an air of innocence (or at least is trying to). Nothing more than that.
  #294  
Old 05-27-2020, 06:57 AM
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Reade being investigated by Monterey County for her role in expert testimony and they’ll perhaps subpoena her academic records. The article mentions perhaps only 3 quarters. I’m not sure how someone who only has 3 quarters could even fantasize about having graduated, it’s not similar to be in being one credit shy and having to take one last class. It’ll be real interesting to see what comes of her law school history as well.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/0...igation-283592
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