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  #101  
Old 05-15-2020, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Ashtura View Post
Well, if you want an answer from actual conservatives, give this a read

https://news.yahoo.com/obamagate-not...214627867.html

Note: I am not endorsing or claiming anything in here is legitimate. But it is a bit more substantive than "he wore a tan suit", or "because he's black", etc.
From your link

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None of this means that Obama committed some specific crime; he almost assuredly did not.
  #102  
Old 05-15-2020, 09:09 AM
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Asahi can correct me if I’m wrong, but I think he meant that, deep down, even Trump supporters know there’s no there there — but they feel compelled to act and talk as if there were a there there.
Basically, yes, that's what I'm getting at.

The truth is vague and subjective in Trump Land. I can only go with the observations of some members of my family and some old friends I've seen post on Facebook.

But basically, they probably know that they're buying into conspiracy theories without any evidence to support them, but they ascribe negative, fiendish attributes to their targets ("Killary", Obama the Communist Socialist Dictator, etc), believing that these conspiracies *could* be true. It's enough to believe that Obama, Hillary, Bill, pick a Democratic governor, and Biden are capable of doing things that are part of a conspiracy theory -that passes for truth in Trump Land.

The reason they believe that Democrats are capable of such atrocities is that, deep down inside, they know that Republicans are equally capable of viciously attacking and smearing their opponents, and many times, that's exactly what right wing voters what they want them to do. They just assume that Democrats and liberals would want to do the same in return. It's a type of projection.

Believing that Hillary Clinton had Seth Rich murdered or that she ran a child sex trafficking ring in a pizza shop need not have facts to support them - if it's humanly possible, they assume that progressives are doing it. They want to believe that. It helps them justify whatever shitty views of humanity they have.

Last edited by asahi; 05-15-2020 at 09:13 AM.
  #103  
Old 05-15-2020, 09:44 AM
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I think the idea is that just the way people link Nixon with Watergate and they know it's something bad (although I'll bet 90% of Americans walking around today don't know what the "Watergate" crime was or why it's named that), they'll link the vaguely nefarious, accusatory "Obamagate" with "Obama"-- made extra simple for the stupid set because his name is part of it. Not saying trump is capable of this level of reasoning and foresight, but his lackeys and minions are promoting it.
This is Trumps entire life. Blame someone else. He has fucked up from day one, and now, of course he has to blame someone. I think he actually believes it though. Stupid people born into privilege believe they can do no wrong. Not all people born into privilege are stupid though. Many go on to do great things.

Someone fed this to him though. "Distract them, rile up your supporters and give them something to cling to".

I REALLY want a reporter in a news conference/Trump rally, to stand up for the truth, call him a liar, and state that "This Obamagate bullshit is just an attempt to distract from your own incompetence, failures and crimes. It is not in any newspapers and only exist in your feeble brain". He can then be applauded by other reporters and escorted out by the Secret Service. Wherein he will become a hero to actual Americans that care about out county.
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  #104  
Old 05-15-2020, 10:24 AM
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Believing that Hillary Clinton had Seth Rich murdered or that she ran a child sex trafficking ring in a pizza shop need not have facts to support them - if it's humanly possible, they assume that progressives are doing it. They want to believe that. It helps them justify whatever shitty views of humanity they have.
It doesn't even have to be humanly possible. The pizza shop accused of being part of the ring didn't even have a basement.

I've said it before, stupid's forever but ignorance can be fixed... but then there's willful ignorance.
  #105  
Old 05-15-2020, 11:24 AM
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It doesn't even have to be humanly possible. The pizza shop accused of being part of the ring didn't even have a basement.

I've said it before, stupid's forever but ignorance can be fixed... but then there's willful ignorance.
It didn't need to have a basement: one version I tripped over — Og knows, I wasn't looking for it — held that the "basement" was actually on Mars, and the "basement door" was a teleport. In even a slightly more rational atmosphere I would have written this off as a whoosh, but I wouldn't have been surprised if it had been a) serious, and b) believed by a fair number of MAGAsses.
  #106  
Old 05-15-2020, 01:01 PM
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Since no-one has said it yet, I just want to express how utterly disgusting all this is.

That trump supporters are happy to handwave everything that happened with Russia (obstructed justice in 11 ways, 7 members of Trump's team indicted, Barr now letting off a guy who plead guilty twice)...and everything that happened with Ukraine (even most trump supporters accept a QPQ happened for trump's personal benefit, then multiple, blatant attempts to obstruct justice at many levels, followed by a "trial" with no witnesses and no documents allowed), and now a pandemic response that has led to tens of thousands of deaths....

This is the worst scandal in history!? What the fuck is wrong with these people?

Ok, sorry...guess I need to find a Pit thread.
  #107  
Old 05-15-2020, 07:36 PM
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I saw something elsewhere that seems to perfectly answer the question of what Obamagate is:

"Obamagate is a slogan in search of a scandal."

I'd say that it's a pretty good answer.
  #108  
Old 05-16-2020, 08:09 AM
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Since no-one has said it yet, I just want to express how utterly disgusting all this is.

That trump supporters are happy to handwave everything that happened with Russia (obstructed justice in 11 ways, 7 members of Trump's team indicted, Barr now letting off a guy who plead guilty twice)...and everything that happened with Ukraine (even most trump supporters accept a QPQ happened for trump's personal benefit, then multiple, blatant attempts to obstruct justice at many levels, followed by a "trial" with no witnesses and no documents allowed), and now a pandemic response that has led to tens of thousands of deaths....

This is the worst scandal in history!? What the fuck is wrong with these people?
As I've said before, they get something of psychological value out of siding with Trump. I don't think every Trump supporter is hopelessly racist, but an overwhelming majority have anxieties about the demographic shifts that have occurred over the last 40-50 years. Even for whites who are living from food stamp payment to food stamp payment, they fear losing their "rank" in society.

Something *is* wrong with that, though.
  #109  
Old 05-16-2020, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Mijin View Post
Since no-one has said it yet, I just want to express how utterly disgusting all this is.

That trump supporters are happy to handwave everything that happened with Russia (obstructed justice in 11 ways, 7 members of Trump's team indicted, Barr now letting off a guy who plead guilty twice)...and everything that happened with Ukraine (even most trump supporters accept a QPQ happened for trump's personal benefit, then multiple, blatant attempts to obstruct justice at many levels, followed by a "trial" with no witnesses and no documents allowed), and now a pandemic response that has led to tens of thousands of deaths....

This is the worst scandal in history!? What the fuck is wrong with these people?

Ok, sorry...guess I need to find a Pit thread.
What’s wrong is that they’ve been led to believe that all the stuff above is to Trump what Birtherism and the tan suit are to Obama supporters. Whether you then place more blame on the people telling the lies or the people who believe them is up to you.
  #110  
Old 05-16-2020, 07:22 PM
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Yer all overthinking it.

"A slogan in search of a scandal." That's good. That might even be true. But last night, I drank a quart of Old Overcoat and inflicted a head injury on myself, and then watched several hours of Fox News in order to simulate the mindset... and the answer slid neatly into place. It did. And it made SENSE, and EVERYTHING! Really quite simple.

Obamagate is, in fact, "The brazen and corrupt act of permitting, aiding, and abetting, nay, ENCOURAGING.... a NEGRO... to be PRESIDENT of the UNITED STATES!

TWICE!!!

And after eight YEARS of this ATROCITY, attempting to follow it UP by putting a woman, A WOMAN IN THERE!!!"

Makes perfect sense. That's why he doesn't have to explain it. More than HALF of ALL AMERICANS were IN on the conspiracy.....
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  #111  
Old 05-16-2020, 09:04 PM
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I think you're right. Obama's crime was...




...wait for it...





Being President While Black!


Twice!



He can't deny it!
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  #112  
Old 05-16-2020, 09:47 PM
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I think you're right. Obama's crime was...




...wait for it...





Being President While Black!


Twice!



He can't deny it!
The only flaw I can find in this theory is that it makes perfect sense.

The current president often does NOT make sense, and he's far from logical, even when he's lucid.

So maybe the theory about "A slogan in search of a scandal" is better. At least it doesn't have to make sense. It just has to be believed by the faithful.
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  #113  
Old 05-16-2020, 11:02 PM
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Well, and his mother's name was Stanley. What the hell kind of name is that? Obviously his parents were gay, so that makes him a gay black muslim. That is just all kinds of wrong. He should be locked up for perpetrating that big a fraud on the country.
  #114  
Old 05-17-2020, 12:12 AM
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The definitive report on Obamagate was given on the Daily Social Distancing Show:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_Be2e87A38
  #115  
Old 05-17-2020, 01:41 AM
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The definitive report on Obamagate was given on the Daily Social Distancing Show:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_Be2e87A38
While that was entertaining, the Foxsplanation part hurt my brain.

Then again, so does Fox News.
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  #116  
Old 05-17-2020, 04:02 AM
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Obama shared a meal with Anthony Bourdain in Vietnam, therefore he's a filthy communist sympathizer??

Other than that, I've got nothing.

Hey, can someone enlighten me re the Tan Suit thing? It didn't blip my radar here downunder.
  #117  
Old 05-17-2020, 05:29 AM
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Obama tan suit controversy
Basically, Obama wore a tan suit for a news conference about ISIS and Republicans went ape-shit over how unpresidential it was.
  #118  
Old 05-17-2020, 08:43 AM
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Obama tan suit controversy
Basically, Obama wore a tan suit for a news conference about ISIS and Republicans went ape-shit over how unpresidential it was.
Well, THAT was fun to revisit. Imagine the hoopla if he had worn seersucker and a boater.
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Last edited by Ukulele Ike; 05-17-2020 at 08:44 AM. Reason: added the boater. couldn’t resist the image
  #119  
Old 05-17-2020, 08:56 AM
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Well, THAT was fun to revisit. Imagine the hoopla if he had worn seersucker and a boater.
Even worse, a big Panama with a purple hatband.
  #120  
Old 05-17-2020, 09:57 AM
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Looking forward to hearing from you again in 2040!
  #121  
Old 05-17-2020, 02:19 PM
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Obamagate is about a racist man that somewhere somehow MAYBE understands that he will never be one tenth of the man Obama is. I really hope that somewhere in Trumps reptilian 'brain' he realizes this. Good fucking luck trying to punch up Donald.

The GOP wants to distract from his incompetence and failures. Playing to his idiot racist supporters is just the thing to do. They are still complaining about Clinton emails, and need some other CT to allow them to sleep at night. Straight out of the Republican playbook.
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  #122  
Old 05-17-2020, 03:31 PM
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Obama tan suit controversy
Basically, Obama wore a tan suit for a news conference about ISIS and Republicans went ape-shit over how unpresidential it was.
That's not tan. I was expecting something along the lines of baby-poo brown, not the beige that I see in the linked pic.

Now if it had been tan, then I'd understand the outrage.
  #123  
Old 05-17-2020, 03:39 PM
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I think the idea is that just the way people link Nixon with Watergate and they know it's something bad (although I'll bet 90% of Americans walking around today don't know what the "Watergate" crime was or why it's named that), they'll link the vaguely nefarious, accusatory "Obamagate" with "Obama"-- made extra simple for the stupid set because his name is part of it. Not saying trump is capable of this level of reasoning and foresight, but his lackeys and minions are promoting it.

It shows about as much imagination as the First Lady calling her campaign “Be Best,” to piggyback on Michelle Obama’s “Be Better.” Adding the suffix “-gate” is silly since the Watergate was the name of the hotel where all the spying went on. It has no meaning in and of itself.
  #124  
Old 05-17-2020, 03:49 PM
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...Adding the suffix “-gate” is silly since the Watergate was the name of the hotel where all the spying went on. It has no meaning in and of itself.
*BEEP* Disqualified as a reason.

In today's America the fact that something has no meaning in and of itself is a reason/explanation/comment that has no meaning in and of itself. See how that works? You're welcome.
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  #125  
Old 05-17-2020, 05:02 PM
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It doesn't even have to be humanly possible. The pizza shop accused of being part of the ring didn't even have a basement.
[Tinfoil hat]THAT'S WHAT THEY WANT US TO BELIVES[/Tinfoli Hat]

But yeah, I have people who I've known for years doing all sorts of mental gymnastics to agree with Trump.
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  #126  
Old 05-17-2020, 07:27 PM
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I've been keeping a copy of this text around for the past couple of years because it needs to be deployed frequently. Sartre wrote this about anti-Semites but it applies perfectly to fascists in general and our American fascists in particular.

Quote:
Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past. It is not that they are afraid of being convinced. They fear only to appear ridiculous or to prejudice by their embarrassment their hope of winning over some third person to their side.

—Jean-Paul Sartre, "Anti-semite and Jew"
Earlier in the conversation here someone wished that a reporter would stand up at a press conference and say, "This is bullshit." A few days ago we finally saw how that would work out: Trump simply declared the press conference over and walked out. He definitely loftily indicated that the time for argument is past.

In short, "Obamagate" is transparently bullshit and is intended exactly that way. That it's irrational is the point.
  #127  
Old 05-17-2020, 08:06 PM
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I've been keeping a copy of this text around for the past couple of years because it needs to be deployed frequently. Sartre wrote this about anti-Semites but it applies perfectly to fascists in general and our American fascists in particular.

Quote:
Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past. It is not that they are afraid of being convinced. They fear only to appear ridiculous or to prejudice by their embarrassment their hope of winning over some third person to their side.

—Jean-Paul Sartre, "Anti-semite and Jew"
Earlier in the conversation here someone wished that a reporter would stand up at a press conference and say, "This is bullshit." A few days ago we finally saw how that would work out: Trump simply declared the press conference over and walked out. He definitely loftily indicated that the time for argument is past.

In short, "Obamagate" is transparently bullshit and is intended exactly that way. That it's irrational is the point.
Succinct and perfectly said. Thank you for sharing it. I shall keep it handy going forward, too.
  #128  
Old 05-17-2020, 08:15 PM
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I've been keeping a copy of this text around for the past couple of years because it needs to be deployed frequently. Sartre wrote this about anti-Semites but it applies perfectly to fascists in general and our American fascists in particular.

Quote:
Quote:
Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past. It is not that they are afraid of being convinced. They fear only to appear ridiculous or to prejudice by their embarrassment their hope of winning over some third person to their side.

—Jean-Paul Sartre, "Anti-semite and Jew"
Earlier in the conversation here someone wished that a reporter would stand up at a press conference and say, "This is bullshit." A few days ago we finally saw how that would work out: Trump simply declared the press conference over and walked out. He definitely loftily indicated that the time for argument is past.

In short, "Obamagate" is transparently bullshit and is intended exactly that way. That it's irrational is the point.
That quotation certainly hits the nail right on the head. Especially this: "...it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words."

This is why Biden and the Dems can't use trump's methods to defeat him. They have to render trump impotent. They have to move the contest off the board, off the playing field, outside the game. I don't know how -- my imagination is limited because I still believe in words.
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Last edited by ThelmaLou; 05-17-2020 at 08:16 PM.
  #129  
Old 05-17-2020, 09:15 PM
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You're all talking about it, and thus it becomes real.
  #130  
Old 05-18-2020, 10:25 AM
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“When I use a word,” Humpty Trumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less.”

“The question is,” said Alice, “whether you can make words mean so many different things.”

“The question is,” said Humpty Trumpty, “which who is to be master—that’s all.”
  #131  
Old 05-18-2020, 10:33 AM
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  #132  
Old 05-18-2020, 10:47 AM
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... Biden and the Dems can't use trump's methods to defeat him. They have to render trump impotent. They have to move the contest off the board, off the playing field, outside the game. I don't know how -- my imagination is limited because I still believe in words.
It is painfully simple: do not speak of him. Do not respond to him. Do not mention his name. If asked about him, talk about your ideas on the particular subject, gibing away from him. Treat him as though he does not matter, that it is not all about HIM, that we are headed away from this ugly place. What? No, I do not care one iota if that guy fucks pigs, let him have his fun. Just make sure my glazed ham is thoroughly cooked.
  #133  
Old 05-18-2020, 11:06 AM
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https://www.vox.com/conversations/20...-fascism-truth

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We also discuss the role of truth in a liberal democracy, and why illiberal regimes thrive on confusion and cynicism.

His message is simple: If there is no truth, there are no facts; if there are no facts, there is no rule of law; and if there is no rule of law, you can’t maintain a liberal democracy.
But let's not forget: it's not just gun-toting MAGAbots who are susceptible to schemes against truth and fact-based reality (and incidentally, this is where democracy can really fall apart):

Quote:
The mechanism by which you dissolve people's certainty about truth is that you get them to believe lots of untrue things. The final goal is total cynicism.

...

So even people who feel like they want to resist have a certain amount of trouble because in Trump, they hear a kind of distant echo of things they once might have heard in a lecture hall, and they're not really sure what to think about the establishment or democracy or political elites.
To see how this works, check out those Tara Reade threads.

Here's Garry Kasparov's insightful comments on propaganda and truth:

https://twitter.com/Kasparov63/statu...50564284702720

Quote:
The point of modern propaganda isn't only to misinform or push an agenda. It is to exhaust your critical thinking, to annihilate truth.
The earlier post referencing antisemitism was spot on.

I agree that anyone who "believes" in Obamagate knows that there's likely been no actual legal crime committed. That's why I said earlier that they probably know that Trump just pulled the allegation straight out of his ass and that there's no actual evidence of a crime being committed.

But at the same time, it's a big mistake to dismiss the seriousness of their thinking. They're not joking around. They might be having some fun with words but they are deadly serious about demonizing those with whom they have grievances. Due to a variety of technological, social, economic, and political changes that have hit us with great force and at dizzying speed, fissures have developed and we have become a fractured society. Mistrust grows and some of those wounds are becoming gangrenous.

One consequence is that there is deep mistrust of people who don't appear to be like us or are recognizably different in some apparently meaningful way. In this situation, people become hyper-defensive. And they assume that they are under attack. They assume that whatever they can imagine doing to someone they consider to be a nemesis, they can just as easily imagine being done to them by that person, which only serves to intensify the bunker mentality. It's literally people adopting a battlefield mentality, except that we're not on live battlefields -- not yet anyway.
  #134  
Old 05-18-2020, 11:10 AM
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That quotation certainly hits the nail right on the head. Especially this: "...it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words."

This is why Biden and the Dems can't use trump's methods to defeat him. They have to render trump impotent. They have to move the contest off the board, off the playing field, outside the game. I don't know how -- my imagination is limited because I still believe in words.
Just keep speaking truth. Over and over and over again.

There is no better truth to exploit than what's happening right now, right in front of everyone.

I am bullish on Trump's ability to take a debacle and turn it into a full-scale meltdown for the ages. He will do that. He will try to lie about it, and he could possibly get away with it. But he's less likely to if people keep fearlessly holding his nose to the giant pile of shit that he (they) have dropped on our carpet. Keep rubbing their fucking noses in it.
  #135  
Old 05-18-2020, 11:12 AM
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It is painfully simple: do not speak of him. Do not respond to him. Do not mention his name. If asked about him, talk about your ideas on the particular subject, gibing away from him. Treat him as though he does not matter, that it is not all about HIM, that we are headed away from this ugly place. What? No, I do not care one iota if that guy fucks pigs, let him have his fun. Just make sure my glazed ham is thoroughly cooked.
Yes, I wish they would do this. Trump is a headline whore and unfortunately all he has to do is fart and it makes headlines. Even the MSM are guilty of this. He prefers that the headlines praise him, but he doesn't care if they vilify him. As long as he gets them. And if a few hours minutes go by when he's not in the headlines, he'll tweet something outrageous and make everyone jump. He's fiddling and we've all been dancing to his tune waaaaay too long!
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  #136  
Old 05-18-2020, 01:28 PM
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You're all talking about it, and thus it becomes real.
I understand your point, but remember that John Kerry believed that answering the false Swift Boat claims (made up out of whole cloth by Jerome Corsi) was beneath his dignity, so he didn't. And we saw how that went.
  #137  
Old 05-18-2020, 02:36 PM
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I understand your point, but remember that John Kerry believed that answering the false Swift Boat claims (made up out of whole cloth by Jerome Corsi) was beneath his dignity, so he didn't. And we saw how that went.
I don't know if Corsi made up the bullshit Swift Boat claims, but he certainly wrote the book that publicized them.

The claims, and television ads, were out there before Corsi's book.

It's also worth noting that retired admiral William Schaacte, an SBVT member and bullshit artist about Kerry's service in Vietnam, was a partner in a lobbying firm. His clients received tens of millions of dollars in defense contracts from the Bush adminstration after the election. Just a bit of payment for services rendered, I guess.

Also, one of his partners in the firm, David Norcross, was convention chair for the Republican convention that year.
  #138  
Old 05-18-2020, 02:43 PM
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I don't know if Corsi made up the bullshit Swift Boat claims, but he certainly wrote the book that publicized them.

The claims, and television ads, were out there before Corsi's book.

It's also worth noting that retired admiral William Schaacte, an SBVT member and bullshit artist about Kerry's service in Vietnam, was a partner in a lobbying firm. His clients received tens of millions of dollars in defense contracts from the Bush adminstration after the election. Just a bit of payment for services rendered, I guess.

Also, one of his partners in the firm, David Norcross, was convention chair for the Republican convention that year.
Interesting stuff.

I remember Corsi bragging about it, but I don't have a cite to hand. He certainly fanned the flames if he wasn't the outright liar about it. Disgusting.

When his name cropped up in connection with Trump, I wasn't surprised.
  #139  
Old 05-18-2020, 03:32 PM
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I understand your point, but remember that John Kerry believed that answering the false Swift Boat claims (made up out of whole cloth by Jerome Corsi) was beneath his dignity, so he didn't. And we saw how that went.
And we did not see the universe where John Kerry got pulled down a rabbit hole by answering the false Swift Boat claims, and are now sitting here talking about how he lost by being dragged through the mud and morass of trying to defend himself against bad faith claims.
  #140  
Old 05-18-2020, 05:46 PM
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Yes, I wish they would do this. Trump is a headline whore and unfortunately all he has to do is fart and it makes headlines. Even the MSM are guilty of this. He prefers that the headlines praise him, but he doesn't care if they vilify him. As long as he gets them. And if a few hours minutes go by when he's not in the headlines, he'll tweet something outrageous and make everyone jump. He's fiddling and we've all been dancing to his tune waaaaay too long!
it needs to be done like this
  #141  
Old 05-18-2020, 08:18 PM
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I thought this was a good discussion of the Trump et al. strategy behind "Obamagate": https://prospect.org/politics/unmask...ss-biden-media
  #142  
Old 05-18-2020, 10:11 PM
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It's plainly obvious that the purpose of this thread is to militantly ignore and misdirect an issue, so much for "Fighting Ignorance".
Looking at it without the handicap of intractable partisanship. this "Obamagate" makes Nixon's Watergate look like rank amateurism and needs to be examined, but of course that would likely bring down many beloved narratives and force some serious introspection so that's not going to happen, not here anyway.
  #143  
Old 05-18-2020, 11:51 PM
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Yes, I wish they would do this. Trump is a headline whore and unfortunately all he has to do is fart and it makes headlines. Even the MSM are guilty of this. He prefers that the headlines praise him, but he doesn't care if they vilify him. As long as he gets them. And if a few hours minutes go by when he's not in the headlines, he'll tweet something outrageous and make everyone jump. He's fiddling and we've all been dancing to his tune waaaaay too long!
I disagree in two ways.

Trump is the president. If he were just some Alex Jones online crank, then we can ignore him, sure. But, as president, Trump's words often presage the government's actions so are highly significant.
And even if we were to argue that the media should just focus on the actions then, it's not that simple. For instance, when Trump says that Governers that are nice to him will receive greater support, or that the FBI agents involved in Flynn's case should be convicted of treason, these things have great influence on behaviour even if he doesn't follow up on them; because he has power and these kinds of threats can be intimidating. If the media doesn't report it, then the public is unaware of such bullying, and the erosion of checks and balances and the rule of law.

The other way I disagree is that I think the press is actually making a good stab at ignoring a lot of Trump's nonsense at this point.
There have been days where trump has posted 100+ tweets of craziness, and the actual tweets aren't reported anywhere; the headline is just, essentially "Another day of Trump madness".
Also the claims are usually treated critically. When trump accused Obama of wiretapping him in 2017 (I think), the whole media blew up and there was a lot of speculation about what evidence he had.
Now when trump makes such claims the media comes at it more from the perspective of "Is there any reason to take this fever dream seriously?"

All that said, there is one important thing in that we can't allow debunking trump to push out the real stories: the many injustices and corruption going on. Even pointing out that the emporer is naked sometimes takes away time from doing that.
  #144  
Old 05-19-2020, 12:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Ale View Post
It's plainly obvious that the purpose of this thread is to militantly ignore and misdirect an issue, so much for "Fighting Ignorance".
Looking at it without the handicap of intractable partisanship. this "Obamagate" makes Nixon's Watergate look like rank amateurism and needs to be examined, but of course that would likely bring down many beloved narratives and force some serious introspection so that's not going to happen, not here anyway.
Just on the wild case this isn't sarcasm...cite?
  #145  
Old 05-19-2020, 07:56 AM
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Just on the wild case this isn't sarcasm...cite?


You won't get one. They came into a thread that asks for an explanation of what "Obamagate" actually is, just to respond that they didn't need to explain it because it's so obvious what it is.

O-gate is nothing more than the most recent manifestation of their fact-free dismissals of everything Obama. They spent his entire time in office simply declaring that he was a "disaster", the "worst president ever", that America was a "laughingstock", without even attempting to explain why, because they knew they didn't need to explain it. Then, as soon as Trump was elected, they started simply declaring that Trump was the best ever, that America was "great" again, that America was "respected" again, and again, provided no explanation or evidence for these claims. Because it was never about the evidence.

And it's not about the evidence now.
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  #146  
Old 05-19-2020, 09:00 AM
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Obama Lives in Trump’s Head
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Obama is everything that Trump is not: intellectual, articulate, adroit, contemplative and cool. He also happens to be a black man. The fact that he could not only ascend to the height of power but also the heights of celebrity and adoration vexed Trump.

Trump set about to demonstrate that none of that mattered, none of it could supersede the talents of a confident counterfeit. He convinced himself that Obama was the convenient recipient of affirmative action adulation from a world thirsty for racial recompense, an assuaging of white guilt.

Trump has held this view well before anyone heard the name Barack Obama. In 1989, Trump said in an NBC News interview, “A well-educated black has a tremendous advantage over a well-educated white, in terms of the job market.” Trump went so far as to say that “I’ve said on occasion, even about myself, if I was starting off today I would love to be a well-educated black because I really believe they do have an actual advantage today.”
...
So... trump wants to BE Obama. Well, who wouldn't-- the guy is the essence of stylish, intellectual cool. No wonder trump can't get Obama out of his head! He's everything trump wants to be and is not-- including black!
Quote:
...
These [2016] voters* chose the opposite of Obama, they chose the moral and intellectual antithesis, someone who could arrest the advance that Obama represented: an ascension of multicultural power and a coming erasure of white advantage and the dominance of white culture, all of which establishment forces had either allowed or encouraged.

Trump was elected to restore the cultural narrative of the primacy of whiteness.

Now, with the colossal disaster of his Covid-19 response threatening his re-election prospects, Trump is attempting to draft Obama once again as his primary opponent.
....




* Although, one must point out, NOT a majority of voters.
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  #147  
Old 05-19-2020, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Ale View Post
It's plainly obvious that the purpose of this thread is to militantly ignore and misdirect an issue, so much for "Fighting Ignorance".
Looking at it without the handicap of intractable partisanship. this "Obamagate" makes Nixon's Watergate look like rank amateurism and needs to be examined, but of course that would likely bring down many beloved narratives and force some serious introspection so that's not going to happen, not here anyway.
Asking the public what the nature of an alleged scandal is (since our President can't be bothered to explain it) somehow equals an attempt to "ignore and misdirect" on the issue? That doesn't make the slightest bit of sense.

Clearly you believe there is indeed a scandal of some sort. I will assume that you have the ability to explain to others what it is.

What do you believe are the main elements of this alleged scandal?
What specific crime or crimes do you believe have been committed, and by whom?

Last edited by El_Kabong; 05-19-2020 at 09:55 AM.
  #148  
Old 05-19-2020, 09:53 AM
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Obama Lives in Trump’s HeadSo... trump wants to BE Obama. Well, who wouldn't-- the guy is the essence of stylish, intellectual cool. No wonder trump can't get Obama out of his head! He's everything trump wants to be and is not-- including black!
Trump's pathology is weird; he's a narcissist and he has an inferiority complex.
  #149  
Old 05-19-2020, 10:15 AM
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Trump's pathology is weird; he's a narcissist and he has an inferiority complex.
He is all things to all people-- including himself!
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  #150  
Old 05-19-2020, 10:29 AM
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Trump's pathology is weird; he's a narcissist and he has an inferiority complex.
I always figured the two go hand in hand. Deep down inside they at least suspect they're not as good as "other people" which is why they brook no criticism of them or their actions.
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