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  #101  
Old 05-17-2020, 03:20 PM
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Another trope which is annoying- there is some prophet, soothsayer, augury, whatever, and they come up with some balderdash- and in the end- it is ALWAYS correct. Prophecies- unless based upon educated calculations/guesswork - or extremely vague- have just about always been wrong.

No writer dares to drop a prophecy in his book, and at the end when someone asks "What about Mad Barkers prophecy?" - "OH, that nutcase?- they are always wrong."

On TV, when they go investigate something supernatural or UFO , etc, and find out it is totally mundane- there has to be a closing shot which shows something possible supernatural etc.
  #102  
Old 05-17-2020, 03:21 PM
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A man and a woman start out despising one another and then fall in love.
Cheers. For a much loved show, Cheers was full of tropes. Will they won't they, opposites attract, "dumb" character constantly with funny quips, "smart" character constantly put in his place.

I preferred Barney Miller, where the dumb character was really dumb and slower, the smart character actually knew what he was talking about, and the pretentious, ambitious character actually accomplished something.

Even on Gilligan's Island, the characters actually were what they were without the Cheers type subversion that is more of a trope than not doing it.
  #103  
Old 05-17-2020, 03:21 PM
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heres 2 more ..

the depiction of video games by people who never played any .... you see someone playing a ps2 with a sega genesis controller and there playing atari Pacman .....(that's never seen just heard )

Or the show has someone's grandma acting like shes playing when what she's doing and whats going on in the game has nothing do with each other ......... (shes just miming actions during the "attract mode"

here's another:
there's a drug dealer/courier usually a single teen/college age mom whos related or was childhood friends to the local wholesale supplier

she flaky so doesn't sell much just a few dime bags here and there to friends ... maybe enough to pay the rent and the electric bill

Well somehow the story gets around that shes the local cartel princess his rolling in cash so some morons decide to rob her and torture her and her kid to death because she won't tell them where the money stash she doesn't have is... because surprise there never was one ......
and god himself could come down and tell these fools she didn't have any real money but everyone's lying trying to get the money themselves

And the morons' defense throughout the whole thing from when they get picked up to being dragged off to prison is "if the dumb bitch has only just given up the money" (the exact line from the tv show) like that's a defense for sodomizing her with red hot silverware for 12 hours ......
  #104  
Old 05-17-2020, 03:34 PM
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Dang! I just posted about this the other day in another thread. Here goes again:

Crimes and mysteries would not get solved if it weren't for dead people. The detective/coroner/amateur sleuth is at a dead-end (pun unintended) when his deceased wife/parent/child/victim tells him that he really CAN figure it out. The answer is obvious and he/she knew it all along. Of course, the protagonist has regular conversations with this deceased person, so it's no surprise to the viewer.

Whenever I see this, I point out to my wife that I feel cheated. I've never had a conversation with the ghost of my late wife, my late parents, my deceased friends, or any person of the dead variety. They simply don't show up in my laundry room to have a casual chat.
  #105  
Old 05-17-2020, 03:38 PM
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Dang! ...

Whenever I see this, I point out to my wife that I feel cheated. I've never had a conversation with the ghost of my late wife, .....
Umm, err....

Italics mine.



  #106  
Old 05-17-2020, 03:43 PM
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Umm, err....

Italics mine.



If your wife or husband dies, they do let you marry another one. So it's entirely possible.
  #107  
Old 05-17-2020, 04:45 PM
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If your wife or husband dies, they do let you marry another one. So it's entirely possible.
I hope you saw the
  #108  
Old 05-17-2020, 04:50 PM
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I'd always wanted to see a movie where a bad guy has an elaborate plan that immediately falls apart the moment it starts, you see it all the time from the heroes perspective (the Scooby-Doo Plan I think it's called) but you never see the bad guy plan to be captured to get into the heroes lair, only to find out that instead of the heroes guarding himself it's somebody else entirely whom he has no real counter for.
There is a trope where a mystery is particularly mysterious because two people have conflicting plots - or because a plan the bad guy started was changed in the middle due to emergent circumstances. A recent movie used this idea, and the Father Brown mysteries used it too (The Point of a Pin, for example).
  #109  
Old 05-17-2020, 06:18 PM
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The thermonuclear countdown girl. That is the supremely calm women's voice with either a Middle Atlantic or English accent who voices the countdown clock of the device that is about to blow up the world.

Action hero fighting/getting out of their shackles/racing across town
Operator voice: "The nuclear bomb will go off in...... 5 minutes"
More action/ escaping/getting stuck in traffic jams
Operator voice: "The nuclear bomb will go off in........4 minutes"

We get the juxtaposition between the frantic action and the calm voice. Just don't.
Or the even worse variant (as seen in The Dark Knight Goes Boom)

The nuclear bomb will go off in five minutes!

*Everybody stands around while speeches are made.*

You have to travel a hundred miles out to sea so it won't destroy the entire city!

*More speeches, probably some hugging*

*Finally gets into plane that goes from 0 to 1000 in three seconds. Flies at super speed and drops the bomb into the ocean where for some reason it doesn't cause a tsunami. However, he's still standing right next to an exploding nuclear bomb he can't escape from*

Waves from a cafe in Italy.

That's the worst, but legions of films have ten minutes pass during the 60 seconds the timer is ticking off.
  #110  
Old 05-17-2020, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Long Time First Time View Post
The thermonuclear countdown girl. That is the supremely calm women's voice with either a Middle Atlantic or English accent who voices the countdown clock of the device that is about to blow up the world.

Action hero fighting/getting out of their shackles/racing across town
Operator voice: "The nuclear bomb will go off in...... 5 minutes"
More action/ escaping/getting stuck in traffic jams
Operator voice: "The nuclear bomb will go off in........4 minutes"

We get the juxtaposition between the frantic action and the calm voice. Just don't.
In "War Games" there's a woman in the final scenes whose job is apparently to tell us how much of the launch code WOPR has figured out - information that is displayed on the big screen in front of all of the characters.
  #111  
Old 05-17-2020, 06:38 PM
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Pregnant women. With exceedingly rare exception, they exist in any movie for only one of three reasons:
  • to go into labor at exactly the wrong moment.
  • to be taken hostage, usually eventually followed by the above.
  • as purely ancillary characters who are tragically the spouse/partner of a more important character that's going to die later. Usually involves a "last phone call" ending with "I promise you I'll be okay."
  #112  
Old 05-17-2020, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by DCnDC View Post
Pregnant women. With exceedingly rare exception, they exist in any movie for only one of three reasons:
  • to go into labor at exactly the wrong moment.
  • to be taken hostage, usually eventually followed by the above.
  • as purely ancillary characters who are tragically the spouse/partner of a more important character that's going to die later. Usually involves a "last phone call" ending with "I promise you I'll be okay."
That's one of the great things about Fargo - it totally subverts the pregnancy tropes.
  #113  
Old 05-17-2020, 06:41 PM
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In "War Games" there's a woman in the final scenes whose job is apparently to tell us how much of the launch code WOPR has figured out - information that is displayed on the big screen in front of all of the characters.
Yes, and it is cracking a passcode one digit at a time. Which isn't how that works.
  #114  
Old 05-17-2020, 06:45 PM
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Yes, and it is cracking a passcode one digit at a time. Which isn't how that works.
Yep. That issue already inspired a thread https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb...d.php?t=513503
  #115  
Old 05-17-2020, 06:55 PM
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That's one of the great things about Fargo - it totally subverts the pregnancy tropes.
Yes! Lovely. I saw this in the theater, and maybe two years later at home with the Ukulele Lady. She turned to me and said “If anything bad happens to McDormand, I’m going to kill you.”

“Shut up and watch.”
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  #116  
Old 05-17-2020, 08:53 PM
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a bomb goes off killing a group of innocent civilians. the hero finds a piece of the detonator mechanism 1/4" x 3/'8" and can identify it as one of seven such mechanisms evr manufactured and he knows just where they were available for purchase. six of those purchase were by a personal friend of the hero and the last was from an erstwhile partner who has left the organization due to a dispute withe the hero.
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  #117  
Old 05-17-2020, 08:59 PM
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This seems to be a more recent trend: The 'good guy' disarms the bad guy or eliminates them as a threat, yet goes ahead and kills them and is celebrated as a hero. Sorry, you've just become a murderer.
  #118  
Old 05-17-2020, 09:15 PM
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Bad guy plans that require EVERYTHING to go right to even remotely work, even worse if his plan involves knowing exactly what the heroes will do to the very second so he can plan elaborate subterfuge/escapes days in advance. Bonus points if his plan requires him to be captured in the first place to even get the plan started.

I'd always wanted to see a movie where a bad guy has an elaborate plan that immediately falls apart the moment it starts, you see it all the time from the heroes perspective (the Scooby-Doo Plan I think it's called) but you never see the bad guy plan to be captured to get into the heroes lair, only to find out that instead of the heroes guarding himself it's somebody else entirely whom he has no real counter for.

I made sure the first time I wrote a complex, powerful villain with elaborate plans to make sure they didn't survive contact with the enemy, because that's what always happens in real life. What makes them a good bad guy is their ability to adapt, improvise and overcome, just like what makes a good good guy.
  #119  
Old 05-17-2020, 09:44 PM
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The cop and their partner are looking for Joe Blow. They go to his work place, and see him doing whatever about, and Joe's about 10 yards from them. One of the cops says "Joe Blow? " Joe looks up and runs. Cue a chase. Next week, the same scenario. The cops never learn.
  #120  
Old 05-17-2020, 10:06 PM
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I'm pretty sure that there was no scene like that in The Lovely Bones.
I haven't seen that one, but I'll grant it's unlikely. It's compensated for in The Hobbit where in the first movie 15 characters end up dangling from a tree (that's on fire no less).
  #121  
Old 05-17-2020, 10:44 PM
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The precocious and insightful child, intelligent beyond his years, who is able to drive right to the heart of the adult's motivations and failings. I don't mean a teen, but a 10-year-old. Or younger.
  #122  
Old 05-18-2020, 06:25 AM
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Bookish people who can read all the languages.
I'd make an exception for Professor Theophilus Branestawm, the hero of the British series of childrens' books by Norman Hunter. Said gentleman is an archetypal hugely brilliant but utterly absent-minded and unworldly professor: among very many other accomplishments, he's fluent in something like 254 languages -- with 27 of them, he is the only person in the world who knows them. I love these books -- would consider that they rate a pass re the theme of this thread, because the Professor's immense linguistic knowledge is never of the slightest practical use in any way.
  #123  
Old 05-18-2020, 06:39 AM
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I'd make an exception for Professor Theophilus Branestawm, the hero of the British series of childrens' books by Norman Hunter. Said gentleman is an archetypal hugely brilliant but utterly absent-minded and unworldly professor: among very many other accomplishments, he's fluent in something like 254 languages -- with 27 of them, he is the only person in the world who knows them. I love these books -- would consider that they rate a pass re the theme of this thread, because the Professor's immense linguistic knowledge is never of the slightest practical use in any way.
If he's the only one who knows the language, how did he learn them and how can anyone else tell if he's actually fluent?

  #124  
Old 05-18-2020, 06:53 AM
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"I'm a mild mannered milquetoast, but I'll do anything to protect my FAMILY! To protect my KIDS!"
......

"You can't do that! This is horrible, psychotic behavior! You'll be a murderer, or worse!"

"I'm doing this for my FAMILY! Dammit, all I do, is for my KIDS!"

"Oh. Right-o, well, carry on, then."
......

[protagonist discovers heinous plot]

Dying Antagonist: [whispers hoarsely] It was ... all ... for my ... FAMILY ... for ... MAH KIDSSSSsssss ...

[heroic music swells, indicating moral redemption]
.....

From Cersei Lannister ("Game of Thrones") to Walter White ("Breaking Bad") to Marty Byrde ("Ozark") this one is goddamn every-fucking-where.

As someone with no children (intentionally) and no husband (not so much) I kinda wanna know where my get-outta-shit card might be. Apparently, if you're married with children, you're allowed to do whatevs ... as long as you frame it as being in the best interest of those children.
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  #125  
Old 05-18-2020, 07:04 AM
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"I'm a mild mannered milquetoast, but I'll do anything to protect my FAMILY! To protect my KIDS!"
......

"You can't do that! This is horrible, psychotic behavior! You'll be a murderer, or worse!"

"I'm doing this for my FAMILY! Dammit, all I do, is for my KIDS!"

"Oh. Right-o, well, carry on, then."
......

[protagonist discovers heinous plot]

Dying Antagonist: [whispers hoarsely] It was ... all ... for my ... FAMILY ... for ... MAH KIDSSSSsssss ...

[heroic music swells, indicating moral redemption]
.....

From Cersei Lannister ("Game of Thrones") to Walter White ("Breaking Bad") to Marty Byrde ("Ozark") this one is goddamn every-fucking-where.

As someone with no children (intentionally) and no husband (not so much) I kinda wanna know where my get-outta-shit card might be. Apparently, if you're married with children, you're allowed to do whatevs ... as long as you frame it as being in the best interest of those children.
You got to admit, Walter White is a bit of an outlier here (if you watch to the end)

" I did it for me. It was fun. I liked it..."
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  #126  
Old 05-18-2020, 07:05 AM
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This seems to be a more recent trend: The 'good guy' disarms the bad guy or eliminates them as a threat, yet goes ahead and kills them and is celebrated as a hero. Sorry, you've just become a murderer.
I think this is more of an "antihero" trope. One that comes to mind is a movie with Rutger Hauer and Gene Simmons, ummm...googling....ok, "Wanted: Dead or Alive". Jeez, 1987? Thought it was more recent than that. Anyway, don't know how necessary it is to spoiler tag a 33 yo movie in which the basic premise of the ending has already been described, but here goes:
SPOILER:
Ex-CIA bounty hunter Rutger Hauer captures criminal terrorist mastermind Gene Simmons, and hands him over handcuffed to authorities, in what feels like an anticlimactic ending. Then Rutger has a change of heart (I think spurred on by Simmons taunting him). Rutger takes out a grenade, jams it in his mouth, and pulls the pin. Everybody steps back and watches Gene's head asplode.

Last edited by solost; 05-18-2020 at 07:09 AM.
  #127  
Old 05-18-2020, 07:07 AM
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You got to admit, Walter White is a bit of an outlier here (if you watch to the end)

" I did it for me. It was fun. I liked it..."
Yeah, Breaking Bad was kind of meta in that it seeemd to actively play with tropes. Every time it seemed like a plot point was going to settle in a comfortable trope rut, there was a sudden left turn.
  #128  
Old 05-18-2020, 07:23 AM
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When all is forgiven for the villain at the end just because they had a moment of regret. Doesn't matter if they tortured kittens, experimented on infants, and caused the genocide of billions of people. The protagonist with a strong connection to the villain made a moving speech, and now the villain is one of the good guys again. Often the villain will get to do a heroic sacrifice at the cost of their life, so they never have to deal with the consequences of their atrocities.
I'm looking at you Darth Vader and Kylo Ren!

Last edited by BeagleJesus; 05-18-2020 at 07:24 AM.
  #129  
Old 05-18-2020, 07:32 AM
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Yes! Lovely. I saw this in the theater, and maybe two years later at home with the Ukulele Lady. She turned to me and said “If anything bad happens to McDormand, I’m going to kill you.”

“Shut up and watch.”
Well, she did have that awkward lunch with Mike Yanagita!
  #130  
Old 05-18-2020, 07:48 AM
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In "War Games" there's a woman in the final scenes whose job is apparently to tell us how much of the launch code WOPR has figured out - information that is displayed on the big screen in front of all of the characters.
Gwen DeMarco: [shouts] Look! I have one job on this lousy ship, it's *stupid*, but I'm gonna do it! Okay?
  #131  
Old 05-18-2020, 08:05 AM
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Gwen DeMarco: [shouts] Look! I have one job on this lousy ship, it's *stupid*, but I'm gonna do it! Okay?
Point taken...
  #132  
Old 05-18-2020, 08:13 AM
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The carefree bachelor hero, who has always played the field, finally falls genuinely in love for the first time in his life. All his friends and workmates are happy that he has finally found "the one".

Of course she dies at the end of the episode.
  #133  
Old 05-18-2020, 08:25 AM
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"Threat Level Midnight" from The Office contains as many cliches that can possibly be squeezed into it.
  #134  
Old 05-18-2020, 08:39 AM
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The carefree bachelor hero, who has always played the field, finally falls genuinely in love for the first time in his life. All his friends and workmates are happy that he has finally found "the one".

Of course she dies at the end of the episode.
Perfect example: every member of the Cartwright family on Bonanza. Being in a love relationship with Little Joe was especially deadly. I just watched a particularly gruesome one:
SPOILER:
Little Joe falls in love with the daughter of a neighboring rancher who's in a feud with Ben Cartwright, "Romeo and Juliet" style. The head ranch hand, who is egging the feud on for his own purposes, is also in love with the girl and apparently tries to rape her at one point, when LJ shows up and fights him. In the melee she manages to get herself pitchforked.
  #135  
Old 05-18-2020, 08:46 AM
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The cop and their partner are looking for Joe Blow. They go to his work place, and see him doing whatever about, and Joe's about 10 yards from them. One of the cops says "Joe Blow? " Joe looks up and runs. Cue a chase. Next week, the same scenario. The cops never learn.
But it's the only way Lenny stayed in half-decent shape on Law & Order.
  #136  
Old 05-18-2020, 08:47 AM
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SF movies/shows/books that are set after the great war that killed a lot of people
  #137  
Old 05-18-2020, 08:50 AM
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Perfect example: every member of the Cartwright family on Bonanza. Being in a love relationship with Little Joe was especially deadly.
The old "Cartwright Curse" https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.p...artwrightCurse
  #138  
Old 05-18-2020, 09:22 AM
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Or the even worse variant (as seen in The Dark Knight Goes Boom)

The nuclear bomb will go off in five minutes!

*Everybody stands around while speeches are made.*

You have to travel a hundred miles out to sea so it won't destroy the entire city!

*More speeches, probably some hugging*

*Finally gets into plane that goes from 0 to 1000 in three seconds. Flies at super speed and drops the bomb into the ocean where for some reason it doesn't cause a tsunami. However, he's still standing right next to an exploding nuclear bomb he can't escape from*

Waves from a cafe in Italy.

That's the worst, but legions of films have ten minutes pass during the 60 seconds the timer is ticking off.

Not exactly a direct response, but this made me think of the ONE TIME that the countdown in the movie was EXACTLY the real time it was supposed to be. At the end of William Cameron Menzies' original version of Invaders from Mars* you see them setting the timer on the bomb for 5 minutes. And, by gum, it's five minutes later in the movie that it actually blows up.

This was notable to me, because it made me appreciate just how long five minutes can be. If you're busy with something, five minutes is over in a flash. But if you're watching a movie, it can take an agonizingly long time (just look how long that one minute countdown takes during the "When I'm 64" sequence in Yellow Submarine). They had to fill in the time during those five minutes with flashbacks and stock footage of military maneuvers. You were pretty relieved when the ship actually blew up.




*An incredibly overrated film. It scared the heck out of me as a kid, but when I saw a showing of it at the Dryden Theater at Eastman House in Rochester -- a high-class art cinema venue where they have no snack bar, and people actually get dressed up to watch movies -- the usually sophisticated audience was yelling abuse at the film before it was halfway over. I'd forgotten (or missed) how overall stupid the movie is.
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  #139  
Old 05-18-2020, 09:29 AM
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Bad guy plans that require EVERYTHING to go right to even remotely work, even worse if his plan involves knowing exactly what the heroes will do to the very second so he can plan elaborate subterfuge/escapes days in advance. Bonus points if his plan requires him to be captured in the first place to even get the plan started.
Double bonus points when the Bad Guy's entire master plan requires manipulating the hero into doing something specific at the end of the movie, despite trying to kill the hero multiple times throughout the rest of the movie.
  #140  
Old 05-18-2020, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by purplehorseshoe View Post
"I'm a mild mannered milquetoast, but I'll do anything to protect my FAMILY! To protect my KIDS!"
......

"You can't do that! This is horrible, psychotic behavior! You'll be a murderer, or worse!"

"I'm doing this for my FAMILY! Dammit, all I do, is for my KIDS!"

"Oh. Right-o, well, carry on, then."
......

[protagonist discovers heinous plot]

Dying Antagonist: [whispers hoarsely] It was ... all ... for my ... FAMILY ... for ... MAH KIDSSSSsssss ...

[heroic music swells, indicating moral redemption]
.....

From Cersei Lannister ("Game of Thrones") to Walter White ("Breaking Bad") to Marty Byrde ("Ozark") this one is goddamn every-fucking-where.

As someone with no children (intentionally) and no husband (not so much) I kinda wanna know where my get-outta-shit card might be. Apparently, if you're married with children, you're allowed to do whatevs ... as long as you frame it as being in the best interest of those children.
I have now fallen completely in love with you.
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  #141  
Old 05-18-2020, 11:01 AM
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But it's the only way Lenny stayed in half-decent shape on Law & Order.
That's exactly why they hired the young and fit Ed Green--Lt. Van Buren knew very well that Lenny couldn't run more than ten feet without doubling over and wheezing in pain!

I mean, I love me some Jerry Orbach, but at that age, sprinting was just not his thing!
  #142  
Old 05-18-2020, 11:14 AM
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Let's not forget people running away from something, having to turn and look back multiple times while fleeing.

Just run away, dammit! Why risk tripping or running into a tree or falling down a hill because you needed to check over your shoulder that the baddie was still chasing you?
The converse is just as annoying: uber-badass flicks lit cigarette onto the gasoline he's poured around the crime scene he's created, igniting a huge explosion and conflagration. And as he trudges away menacingly, he doesn't even glance back to make sure a piece of falling debris isn't about to brain him. Because, he's so bad-ass, the debris is afraid of him.
  #143  
Old 05-18-2020, 12:18 PM
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The police team is entering a building where an armed suspect may be hiding. After getting in the door, the leader makes some complicated hand signal, points, and a team member nods and heads in that direction. There is never any confusion about who is to go where because these hand signals are perfect and there are always just enough officers to cover every direction.
For your viewing pleasure.
  #144  
Old 05-18-2020, 12:27 PM
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A story book my first grader was reading just now reminded me of this one, but the same trope exists in shows, movies, and books for adults.

One of the heroes comes up with a plan to overcome the problem or defeat the bad guy. The audience is told that there is a plan, but not what the plan is. This plan is hidden from the audience through unheard whispers, unseen documents, or a quick cut away from the exposition. The final act then consists of the heroes carrying out the clever plan, often with a surprise twist that would have been spoiled if the audience had heard it up front.
  #145  
Old 05-18-2020, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by echoreply View Post
A story book my first grader was reading just now reminded me of this one, but the same trope exists in shows, movies, and books for adults.

One of the heroes comes up with a plan to overcome the problem or defeat the bad guy. The audience is told that there is a plan, but not what the plan is. This plan is hidden from the audience through unheard whispers, unseen documents, or a quick cut away from the exposition. The final act then consists of the heroes carrying out the clever plan, often with a surprise twist that would have been spoiled if the audience had heard it up front.
Quoted from an old thread:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thudlow Boink View Post
It was from Scooby-Doo that I learned an infallible law of narrative construction that has served me well ever since:

Whenever Our Heroes think up an elaborate scheme, if we are presented with an explanation of the way the scheme is supposed to work, something will go wrong so that it does not work as planned. However if the scheme is not explained ahead of time, it will work according to plan.

It's pretty obvious why this is the case, but still, it has enabled me to predict with remarkable accuracy whether or not any scheme in any story is going to turn out to be successful.
  #146  
Old 05-18-2020, 12:41 PM
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I may have missed this one from earlier in the thread...

Newcomer/plucky underdogs lose to a more dominant, and almost always portrayed as the "bad guy," opponent in something, only to win a rematch where more is at stake (usually a championship of some sort). The thing about this is, it isn't always fictional; see Miracle for an example of this, complete with fluke goal followed by boneheaded coaching decision that you would shake your head at as unbelieveable if it wasn't a true story.
  #147  
Old 05-18-2020, 01:48 PM
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"Captain, you'd better come down here."
"What is it, Commander?"
"Uh... it's easier if you just come down and see, sir."
"No. If you can't tell me, in just a sentence or two, what it is that you want to show me, however extraordinary or dramatic, then you are so inarticulate that you probably shouldn't be an officer on this ship."
  #148  
Old 05-18-2020, 01:49 PM
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"Captain, you'd better come down here."
"What is it, Commander?"
"Uh... it's easier if you just come down and see, sir."
"No. If you can't tell me, in just a sentence or two, what it is that you want to show me, however extraordinary or dramatic, then you are so inarticulate that you probably shouldn't be an officer on this ship."
Damn straight.
  #149  
Old 05-18-2020, 02:01 PM
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A Christmas Carol. You don't have a unique take on it. I'm certain you believe you do, but I assure you, you do not.
  #150  
Old 05-18-2020, 02:26 PM
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Making friends with the principal character in Murder She Wrote. You'll either get murdered, framed for murder, or put on trial for murder.
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