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  #251  
Old 05-20-2019, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by ivylass View Post
Forgive me if this has been mentioned, but I thought for sure the dragon was going to blast Jon.
I didn't expect that. Drogon seems to recognize him as a Targaryen and tends to behave like a pet with him.
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  #252  
Old 05-20-2019, 11:14 AM
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Besides, as far as their function goes, as you say, the Nights Watchmen used to keep the Wildings in check, and they had a very hostile relationship. In fact his brothers murdered Jon after he allied with them. But that was then, and this is now. The Wildings assisted the North in defeating the Night King, and then peacefully returned to their homes.
They're the same people they were before. I assume they'll resume raids in short order, at least some of them. And in couple generations, all those who fought along the Northmen will be dead, and presumably the Wildlings will behave in the same way they did in the past.
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  #253  
Old 05-20-2019, 11:16 AM
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I was expecting her to follow Sansa. But being commander of the king's guard means permanent celibacy.
Given how her one sexual relationship worked out, she's probably okay with that.
  #254  
Old 05-20-2019, 11:19 AM
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Why do they need a master of whisperers or whatever when Bran can go all minority report whenever he needs to? I find the prospects of that kind of creepy BTW.
  #255  
Old 05-20-2019, 11:21 AM
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Why do they need a master of whisperers or whatever when Bran can go all minority report whenever he needs to? I find the prospects of that kind of creepy BTW.
And why was he looking for Drogon? were they going to try to hunt it?
  #256  
Old 05-20-2019, 11:24 AM
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I just wondered why we were wasting so much time watching Tyrion laying on the floor. If they were going for something specific in the scene, they never followed through.
I think it was a callback to his time in the sky cells at the Eyrie. I actually just watched that episode recently because my wife wanted to watch Viserys's head melt again on a whim, and it's the same episode. Tyrion also was imprisoned and expected to die a few other times in the series, so it was kind of a "one more time in jail awaiting execution for old times sake" scene.
  #257  
Old 05-20-2019, 11:27 AM
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They're the same people they were before. I assume they'll resume raids in short order, at least some of them. And in couple generations, all those who fought along the Northmen will be dead, and presumably the Wildlings will behave in the same way they did in the past.
I got the impression that Jon was going with them to stay. Tormund had told him he had the "true north" in him. So I can't imagine them raiding anywhere while Jon is alive. And, really, why would they? Jon told Tormund they were free to settle in the lands south of the wall. I think Sansa would be ok with that. The North lost a lot of people in the Battles of the Bastard and the Night King. There should be plenty of land if they want it. The only reason they raided before was to piss off the Night's Watch anyway. They weren't taking resources.
  #258  
Old 05-20-2019, 11:29 AM
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that stuff happens all time time not sure why people are so upset. Braveheart had a guy in jeans under his tunic. And a van was in a scene too.
Ben Hur has a guy wearing a wristwatch, I seem to recall. Indiana Jones is clearly behind glass in some of the snake pit shots. This stuff isn’t all that important.
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  #259  
Old 05-20-2019, 11:29 AM
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It's been mentioned that Dorne should have been up in arms about the North seceding, but Yara should have taken objection to that too--the primary condition of her support of Dany's cause was that Dany promised to recognize Yara as queen of an independent Iron Islands. There is absolutely no reason she would have rolled over and accepted fealty to the wheelchair throne with no concessions.
I think both of them realized that with the new set-up, they had a shot at the throne without having to go to war for it. They were willing to go along with Bran being king because they could then rebuild, rearm and get back to playing power games for the next opening. What they don't realize, of course, is that opening might not happen for a few centuries. Oops.
  #260  
Old 05-20-2019, 11:31 AM
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I think both of them realized that with the new set-up, they had a shot at the throne without having to go to war for it. They were willing to go along with Bran being king because they could then rebuild, rearm and get back to playing power games for the next opening. What they don't realize, of course, is that opening might not happen for a few centuries. Oops.
And again, the war that they're avoiding now isn't just against each other: it's against each other, plus the Unsullied, plus the Dothraki. Maybe everybody is really really keen on not having another war while these two foreign armies are in Westeros.
  #261  
Old 05-20-2019, 11:33 AM
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But once again, Tarly is just a vassal, not on par with the lords of Dorne, Highgarden, Winterfell, etc...
Royce is a Vassal as well. Brienne and Davos as nobodies. We don't know who the 3 other lords are, but they're also not the Lords of any of the 7 kingdoms. Even if those people were Karstarks or Florents or whatever, Tarly is at least on an equal footing to them.
  #262  
Old 05-20-2019, 11:36 AM
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And why was he looking for Drogon? were they going to try to hunt it?
I think that was supposed to be sort of a joke, taking place at the "let's all laugh at the hijinks of the small council" meeting. That's something that just fell really flat for me. Throughout the series they managed to intertwine drama and comedy with great effect. After the somber events of this episode and nobody really getting a happy ending, trying to lighten the mood was just jarring.
  #263  
Old 05-20-2019, 11:38 AM
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Speaking of Brienne, I guess we're to assume old man Tarth died sometime in the preceding seasons and we didn't hear of it? Is she the Lady of Tarth now?
  #264  
Old 05-20-2019, 11:40 AM
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And again, the war that they're avoiding now isn't just against each other: it's against each other, plus the Unsullied, plus the Dothraki. Maybe everybody is really really keen on not having another war while these two foreign armies are in Westeros.
Not only in Westeros but in King's Landing, still pissed off and with nothing to lose. The only kingdom with an semi-intact army was the North.
  #265  
Old 05-20-2019, 11:43 AM
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I got the impression that being embedded in a tree is what gave the three-eyed Raven his immortality. Could be wrong though.
  #266  
Old 05-20-2019, 11:43 AM
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Not only in Westeros but in King's Landing, still pissed off and with nothing to lose. The only kingdom with an semi-intact army was the North.
Dorne should have had a fully intact army, they weren't involved in any battles the entire time. And the Vale would have been more intact than the North.
  #267  
Old 05-20-2019, 11:45 AM
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  #268  
Old 05-20-2019, 11:54 AM
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I'm still not sure if he secretly wanted The Hand job...
Old Tyrion seemed to be back when he asked for wine from his jail cell, so pretty sure he wouldn't turn down a handjob.

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Any else surprised the writers resisted the urge to make Ayra or Brienne pregnant?
I thought both had to be deflowered for a better reason than just declaring a sexuality. I even expected dramatic premature rupture of membranes that was all the fashion in a few Netflix movies last year, so very surprised yes.

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Why do they need a master of whisperers or whatever when Bran can go all minority report whenever he needs to? I find the prospects of that kind of creepy BTW.
Another new to me entry on the list of things that don't fit.
  #269  
Old 05-20-2019, 11:55 AM
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But once again, Tarly is just a vassal, not on par with the lords of Dorne, Highgarden, Winterfell, etc...
Weren't the Tarlys named warden of the south by Cersei in return for betraying Olenna? Granted, everything is up in the air with Cersei dead (and Bronn promised Highgarden), but that point, with no Tyrells, they're the most powerful family in the Reach.
  #270  
Old 05-20-2019, 11:59 AM
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Not only in Westeros but in King's Landing, still pissed off and with nothing to lose. The only kingdom with an semi-intact army was the North.
Not sure where you get that idea, the northern army has taken the most casualties out of anyone. From the red wedding, to the battle of the bastards which was basically north on north to the battle of winterfell, they should have had almost nothing left. Dorne should be the strongest remaining kingdom, the North damn near the bottom.

Last edited by DigitalC; 05-20-2019 at 12:00 PM.
  #271  
Old 05-20-2019, 11:59 AM
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George R.R. Martin said that he wrote Game of Thrones in part because he hated the ending to Lord of the Rings, where once the big bad was dead, peace descended on the land and everyone lived happily ever after. He said, "What about the Orcs? Do they slaughter them?" His point was that power attracts conflict, and there are no clean happy endings - just more politics.

So it is ironic that the showrunners gave Game of Thrones a Lord of the Rings ending, complete with a book being presented at the end that purports to be the story we just watched, and with all the games ending and everyone suddenly bowing to the new King while others prepare their ships for leaving the kingdom. Very pat, very Tolkien-ish.
  #272  
Old 05-20-2019, 12:03 PM
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So it is ironic that the showrunners gave Game of Thrones a Lord of the Rings ending, complete with a book being presented at the end that purports to be the story we just watched, and with all the games ending and everyone suddenly bowing to the new King while others prepare their ships for leaving the kingdom. Very pat, very Tolkien-ish.
That's absolutely the opposite of what I got from the ending.
  #273  
Old 05-20-2019, 12:04 PM
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Bronn is a thief and a murderer and has no loyalties or trustworthiness. After his bit before Winterfell I thought they would find a way for Jamie or Tyrion to get rid of him.
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  #274  
Old 05-20-2019, 12:05 PM
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So it is ironic that the showrunners gave Game of Thrones a Lord of the Rings ending, complete with a book being presented at the end that purports to be the story we just watched, and with all the games ending and everyone suddenly bowing to the new King while others prepare their ships for leaving the kingdom. Very pat, very Tolkien-ish.
On the bright side, I guess they're a natural fit for Star Wars since they cribbed Dany's death scene from Force Awakens.
  #275  
Old 05-20-2019, 12:10 PM
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Bronn is a thief and a murderer and has no loyalties or trustworthiness. After his bit before Winterfell I thought they would find a way for Jamie or Tyrion to get rid of him.
Yeah. Maaaybe Tyrion pays his debt and gives Bronn Highgarden, but making him Master of Coin makes no sense at all. He'll definitely embezzle money for himself. Doesn't bode well for the management of the Six Kingdoms if they're that bad at appointing advisors.

Or maybe that's Tyrion's way of getting rid of him. Basically entrap him with a grift he can't ignore, then execute him when Bran catches him.
  #276  
Old 05-20-2019, 12:13 PM
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Yeah. Maaaybe Tyrion pays his debt and gives Bronn Highgarden, but making him Master of Coin makes no sense at all. He'll definitely embezzle money for himself. Doesn't bode well for the management of the Six Kingdoms if they're that bad at appointing advisors.
The show started with Littlefinger as the Master of Coin; Bronn doesn't strike me as much worse than that.

Of course, we saw examples of Bronn shaking his head and stating how awful the job is when Tyrion held that job. So that's not great.
  #277  
Old 05-20-2019, 12:16 PM
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The show started with Littlefinger as the Master of Coin; Bronn doesn't strike me as much worse than that.

Of course, we saw examples of Bronn shaking his head and stating how awful the job is when Tyrion held that job. So that's not great.
Bronn's a worse choice in one sense. He's transparently corrupt so it indicates horrible judgement in picking him. Littlefinger tried to hide his corruption so you could forgive picking him because he hid his tracks enough to appear to be good at the job.

Bronn might be better in that he's probably not good enough to not get caught.
  #278  
Old 05-20-2019, 12:17 PM
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Dorne should have had a fully intact army, they weren't involved in any battles the entire time. And the Vale would have been more intact than the North.
I thought the Dornish Continental Expeditionary Force was wiped out by Euron Greyjoy's first ambush.
  #279  
Old 05-20-2019, 12:20 PM
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I thought the Dornish Continental Expeditionary Force was wiped out by Euron Greyjoy's first ambush.
Hmm. This may be accurate. Ellaria and the Sand Snakes were on Yara's ship. Were the rest of the ships all Dornish?

Man, Euron was so lame. I wonder what his in show K/D ratio was. Like 200:1?
  #280  
Old 05-20-2019, 12:25 PM
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Same way they always did? Besides the plant we saw says winter is over
I'm thinking the lack of human corpses to feed scavengers and carnivores, what with them being reanimated, ended up starving more animals than usual. Those starved animals were then animated from the dead (hello undead polar bear!), creating a vicious cycle and exacerbating the problem since the undead were aggressive and murderous. And those animals that survived until the Night King died still got screwed because all that delicious carrion was exported to Winterfell.

This may not be a problem since many Wildlings died traveling South, and then getting caught up in multiple wars where they won by the skin of their teeth. If the remaining Wildling population is small enough, they may not stress the shrunken fauna populations that survived the years long winter.
  #281  
Old 05-20-2019, 12:27 PM
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There were so many circular themes to the series, with scenes and incidents coming full circle from the first episode to the last, that it was fitting that the Iron Throne, which was created by a dragon was ultimately destroyed by one.
  #282  
Old 05-20-2019, 12:30 PM
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Bronn is a thief and a murderer and has no loyalties or trustworthiness. After his bit before Winterfell I thought they would find a way for Jamie or Tyrion to get rid of him.
I kinda had the same reaction at first but then I recalled his conversation at crossbow point with Jaime and Tyrion. What struck me was when he expressed (to horribly paraphrase) that it was so he could then marry and sire children and his future generations will no longer be viewed as a sell-sword. I could be wrong since it's been a long 12 seasons but it seemed to me this was a forward thinking view he had never expressed caring about before. In the past titles, land, etc., were all about enriching himself for his own desires. That conversation revealed to me he was seeing the world differently now and he had an opportunity to move beyond his past through his children/dynasty.
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  #283  
Old 05-20-2019, 12:33 PM
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And again, the war that they're avoiding now isn't just against each other: it's against each other, plus the Unsullied, plus the Dothraki. Maybe everybody is really really keen on not having another war while these two foreign armies are in Westeros.
You are talking about the same armies that twiddled their thumbs in Kings Landing for several weeks against all reason and logic, yes? The Unsullied that executed prisoners who opposed their queen, but kept the guy who *killed* their queen alive? The Dothraki who, having been named Dany's bloodriders in their entirety, were bound by their cultural obligation to kill Jon and then themselves? If they weren't going to kill anyone before the council, why would they decide to go rogue afterwards?

There was no in-universe reason for the whole of Westeros to sit in suspended animation for however long it took to round up some nobles to have a council. With both competing monarchs dead, and their closest advisors either dead or imprisoned by hostile forces, their was a power vacuum that should have collapsed into chaos in hours.
  #284  
Old 05-20-2019, 12:40 PM
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Why do they need a master of whisperers or whatever when Bran can go all minority report whenever he needs to?
It's probably useful to have someone to at least advise him on what to look into. The goings on of everyone since forever is a lot of data to comb through. MOW would be able to throw him a bone regarding what seems to be particularly important.
  #285  
Old 05-20-2019, 12:43 PM
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Sorry if this has already been mentioned. Danaerys gives her we-will-now-conquer-the-world speech in High Valeryan which neither Tyrion nor Jon speak. Yet when Tyrion is talking with Jon in his prison cell, he refers to what she said as if both he and Jon understood it.
  #286  
Old 05-20-2019, 12:44 PM
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And why was he looking for Drogon? were they going to try to hunt it?
I think it was more just a sense of wanting to know exactly where it is and what it's up to. All of the armies in Westeros have stood down, so there's "peace", in the short term at least.

The one thing that could seriously throw a wrench in the works is a pissed off dragon rampaging across the countryside burning things indiscriminately. So it's advantageous to know if he's still flying around the countryside with Daenaerys still gripped in his claw, or if he's decided to head back "home" to Essos, where he's "somebody else's problem".
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Old 05-20-2019, 12:44 PM
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So it is ironic that the showrunners gave Game of Thrones a Lord of the Rings ending, complete with a book being presented at the end that purports to be the story we just watched, and with all the games ending and everyone suddenly bowing to the new King while others prepare their ships for leaving the kingdom. Very pat, very Tolkien-ish.
I agree, and I think giving the Golden Company elephants would have been extremely on the nose, which is why they didn't.

I'm not complaining though because I like Tolkienish endings. The true GoT ending, I think, would be Dany winning the throne, immediately offing Jon and Tyrion, and then going up and nuking Winterfell. I guess GRRM got soft.
  #288  
Old 05-20-2019, 12:48 PM
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Sorry if this has already been mentioned. Danaerys gives her we-will-now-conquer-the-world speech in High Valeryan which neither Tyrion nor Jon speak. Yet when Tyrion is talking with Jon in his prison cell, he refers to what she said as if both he and Jon understood it.
Tyrion speaks some Valyrian; he was shown in a number of scenes butchering the language to various people. It wouldn't surprise me that he can understand it better than he can speak it...so I can accept that he got the gist of the speech even if he didn't catch every word.
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Old 05-20-2019, 12:51 PM
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Tyrion speaks some Valyrian; he was shown in a number of scenes butchering the language to various people. It wouldn't surprise me that he can understand it better than he can speak it...so I can accept that he got the gist of the speech even if he didn't catch every word.
But he says to Jon something like "did she sound like someone who was done with war?" Jon also looks deeply disturbed as she's speaking, as if he understood what she was saying.
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Old 05-20-2019, 12:52 PM
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It wasn't expressed in dialog in the show, but I am trying to think up reasons why Bran gets to be King:

1) Bran is one of the few Lords of Westeros remaining that no one hates on a personal level;

2) The other Lords possibly felt that Bran was a Noob, and easy enough to outwit or ignore. Or, alternatively, the six realms may go ahead and treat Bran as a figurehead king, pay a little lip service, and imagine that they can gain a little more autonomy.

3) Any future "High King" can be from any of the houses, giving these Lords hope that their offspring may have a turn at the job. Or, if necessary, they can elect another "empty suit", while maintaining the status quo.

With Bran seeming to be at ease with the North declaring it's independence, maybe this reinforces the assumption by the Lords to think he will be fine with the overall decentralizing of power in Westeros.
  #291  
Old 05-20-2019, 01:03 PM
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Tyrion speaks some Valyrian; he was shown in a number of scenes butchering the language to various people. It wouldn't surprise me that he can understand it better than he can speak it...so I can accept that he got the gist of the speech even if he didn't catch every word.
I think the bloodlust was apparent in the reaction of the Dothraki to her speech. It was not the reaction to being told that this was the time to settle down, make peace and rebuild.
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Old 05-20-2019, 01:11 PM
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With this entire season, the problem hasn't been where they ended up, simply how they got there.

Bran is king? I can see GRRM making a case for that. I know there are other players in the books that didn't make it into the TV show, but you get the sense that this is a war of attrition, and book Bran may have spent time building a coalition to make his rise to power believable in a world where all of the powerhouses have bludgeoned themselves out of the picture. What's not believable is the idea that a small council of lords can just up and decide who's king in Westeros. That's not the world we've seen -- remember "Anyone who says 'I am the King' is no King", and Cersei's "Power is power" lines. Bran might make a great king, and everyone there could agree on that, but Ned Stark would have also made a great king and his head ended up on a stick. Because that's what happens to good men in Westeros who aren't willing to play the game. Bran has not played the game, he doesn't get to win.

I have other examples but this show is getting me too riled up, I gotta step away.
  #293  
Old 05-20-2019, 01:13 PM
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2) The other Lords possibly felt that Bran was a Noob, and easy enough to outwit or ignore. Or, alternatively, the six realms may go ahead and treat Bran as a figurehead king, pay a little lip service, and imagine that they can gain a little more autonomy.
Considering the show starts shortly after one civil war and just before another one, it's never quite clear to me how much power the King actually has. If the kingdom needs something like money, food, or soldiers, it seems like all they can do is ask the Great Houses nicely.
  #294  
Old 05-20-2019, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburban Plankton View Post
I think it was more just a sense of wanting to know exactly where it is and what it's up to. All of the armies in Westeros have stood down, so there's "peace", in the short term at least.

The one thing that could seriously throw a wrench in the works is a pissed off dragon rampaging across the countryside burning things indiscriminately. So it's advantageous to know if he's still flying around the countryside with Daenaerys still gripped in his claw, or if he's decided to head back "home" to Essos, where he's "somebody else's problem".
I think Drogon took her back to Old Valyria. Since no one goes there anymore, it would be a safe place to put her. And we saw him flying around there when Tyrion and Jorah were passing by in the boat so it might be like home for him.
  #295  
Old 05-20-2019, 01:18 PM
Dale Sams is offline
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Originally Posted by clairobscur View Post
But once again, Tarly is just a vassal, not on par with the lords of Dorne, Highgarden, Winterfell, etc...
Tarly is a House. And they also have a castle and hereditary Valyrian sword. And they were lords of The Reach until Bronn got the title

Highgarden was an empty castle like Stormreach. Dorne is a huge country. Winterfell is a city with a castle.
  #296  
Old 05-20-2019, 01:19 PM
DrCube is offline
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Originally Posted by Caldris bal Comar View Post
There was no in-universe reason for the whole of Westeros to sit in suspended animation for however long it took to round up some nobles to have a council. With both competing monarchs dead, and their closest advisors either dead or imprisoned by hostile forces, their was a power vacuum that should have collapsed into chaos in hours.
I think that's a testament to Grey Worm/Torgo Nudho's administrative abilities. And his iron grip on Dany's remaining forces.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emiliana View Post
Sorry if this has already been mentioned. Danaerys gives her we-will-now-conquer-the-world speech in High Valeryan which neither Tyrion nor Jon speak. Yet when Tyrion is talking with Jon in his prison cell, he refers to what she said as if both he and Jon understood it.
I assume Tyrion understands some High Valyrian. There are mentions early in the series about it being a sort of Latin or Greek that educated lordlings are taught. Jon probably got some lessons on it, but was too focused on training as a soldier to care much about ancient languages. But it seemed Tyrion had to explain Dany's speech to Jon, because he didn't get it. "Did she sound like someone who was done fighting?"

What I didn't understand is why the Dothraki understood her speech. I guess they've spent enough time in the company of Unsullied to pick up some Valyrian?
  #297  
Old 05-20-2019, 01:24 PM
DigitalC is offline
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Tyrion said "did that sound like she was done with war", he didn't need to understand the tone and reaction said everything.
  #298  
Old 05-20-2019, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Acsenray View Post
Please sit, uncle was a very well-delivered line
I don't have the context for this. Why did Sansa feel entitled to order her uncle like that?
  #299  
Old 05-20-2019, 01:37 PM
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Was it just me, or did they make Greyworm much less sympathetic this episode than in all previous seasons?
  #300  
Old 05-20-2019, 01:37 PM
Ashtura is offline
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Originally Posted by Polerius View Post
I don't have the context for this. Why did Sansa feel entitled to order her uncle like that?
Because she didn't like him and knew nobody else did either. He was set up from the beginning to be an incompetent blowhard.

Last edited by Ashtura; 05-20-2019 at 01:38 PM.
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