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  #8251  
Old 05-18-2018, 09:26 AM
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Guy goes into the Trump National Doral Miami resort, spouts anti-Trump rhetoric, and starts shooting into the ceiling. Five cops respond, shooting and wounding the guy.

My two reactions:

1. Naturally, if only there had been a good guy with a gun in the club, they certainly could have shot the attacker well before the cops showed up.

2. For years, the gun nuts have been telling us we need guns to protect ourselves from government tyranny. Is this what they had in mind? 'Cuz, this is pretty much what it looks like. Some people want to protect themselves from a government that colludes with hostile foreign powers, views elected offices as a revenue stream, and herds immigrant children into military detention. Others want to protect themselves from affordable health care and a modestly graduated tax system. This is what the NRA expected, right?

Last edited by Defensive Indifference; 05-18-2018 at 09:26 AM.
  #8252  
Old 05-18-2018, 09:30 AM
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Oh. And another school shooting today.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/18/us/te...ing/index.html
  #8253  
Old 05-18-2018, 10:21 AM
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Fuckers. Another one and soon the cries will come out: "It's too soon to talk about gun control!" "Gotta arm the teachers!" "Haw, haw! You libs don't know about guns! This weapon would be legal under laws you want to make!" Whatever, it all boils down to children dying so that you gun nuts can fantasize about being Dirty Harry.
  #8254  
Old 05-18-2018, 10:29 AM
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2. For years, the gun nuts have been telling us we need guns to protect ourselves from government tyranny. Is this what they had in mind? 'Cuz, this is pretty much what it looks like.
The only "government tyranny" that people care about is the kind that wants to come and take their guns. Some future President could march all minorities in the country 2000 miles to a concentration camp, and that wouldn't raise as much of an outcry as a web site saying "Obama gonna take muh guns!"
  #8255  
Old 05-18-2018, 10:31 AM
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The only "government tyranny" that people care about is the kind that wants to come and take their guns. Some future President could march all minorities in the country 2000 miles to a concentration camp, and that wouldn't raise as much of an outcry as a web site saying "Obama gonna take muh guns!"
They didn't rise up the first time the government rounded up citizens and stuck them in camps, so why would they do it now?
  #8256  
Old 05-18-2018, 10:35 AM
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They didn't rise up the first time the government rounded up citizens and stuck them in camps, so why would they do it now?
That's exactly my point.
  #8257  
Old 05-18-2018, 10:45 AM
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Those are the kind of people you WANT as neighbors. The kind that stand up to ignorant noise pollution.
The only thing he did wrong was that he didn't have a silencer.
  #8258  
Old 05-18-2018, 10:20 PM
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Oh. And another school shooting today.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/18/us/te...ing/index.html
...and May 18th is a twofer. Georgia school graduation shooting - two shot, one dead.

Last edited by jasg; 05-18-2018 at 10:24 PM.
  #8259  
Old 05-23-2018, 05:16 PM
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Well, at least we know where the guns are coming from.
  #8260  
Old 05-26-2018, 09:41 AM
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While I was pursuing the latest post on the positive gun news of the day, I noted another headline

4-year-old accidentally shoots, kills 2-year-old brother after mistaking gun for toy

Headline is pretty self explanatory
  #8261  
Old 05-26-2018, 11:31 AM
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While I was pursuing the latest post on the positive gun news of the day, I noted another headline

4-year-old accidentally shoots, kills 2-year-old brother after mistaking gun for toy

Headline is pretty self explanatory
The best part:

Quote:
Neighbor Linda Eddy told WTVR shes known the Aponte family for more than a decade.

Theres no way they would leave a loaded gun out, she said. Theyre good people, good Christians good people, they take care of their children [and] make sure they have everything they need. I know this is going to be tragic to them.
No way a "good Christian" would take responsibility for the senseless death of a child.

I also noted that the Sheriff's department wants to help them, not charge them with a crime of not securing their guns resulting in death.

I sympathize with their loss, but not to the extent that they should be absolved of legal responsibility for it.
  #8262  
Old 05-26-2018, 12:28 PM
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I also noted that the Sheriff's department wants to help them, not charge them with a crime of not securing their guns resulting in death.
Are they white ?
( Can't check out, the link doesn't open because I'm in Europe )
  #8263  
Old 05-26-2018, 12:38 PM
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Are they white ?
( Can't check out, the link doesn't open because I'm in Europe )
I am going to say probably, but the story makes no mention of ethnicity. The victim's name was Tyler Aponte. The house was definitely white, though.
  #8264  
Old 05-26-2018, 02:49 PM
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Are they white ?
( Can't check out, the link doesn't open because I'm in Europe )
Not sure, but I would just as much chalk it up to middle class privilege that negates perceiving them as irresponsible and worthy of charging with a crime. If it were someone else's child, though, I do wonder if the Sheriff would still want to do everything he could to help them. As a neighbor with young children at my house, I'd be furious to learn that firearms were so readily available in their house.
  #8265  
Old 05-26-2018, 02:51 PM
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Not sure, but I would just as much chalk it up to middle class privilege that negates perceiving them as irresponsible and worthy of charging with a crime. If it were someone else's child, though, I do wonder if the Sheriff would still want to do everything he could to help them. As a neighbor with young children at my house, I'd be furious to learn that firearms were so readily available in their house.
It's a sad tragedy when one of your kids kills another one of your kids. What is it when one of your kids kills someone else's?
  #8266  
Old 05-26-2018, 04:28 PM
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From Bone's Happy, Happy, Gun, Gun thread,

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Originally Posted by Anglachel View Post
For those too busy to click links, the shooter injured two teenage girls and an adult. It was apparently random and the attacker was definitely mentally ill. The armed citizens who shot him had an easy job identifying him as he was carrying the weapon openly and had on eye and ear protection commonly used at gun ranges. Both of them went to vehicles to retrieve their firearms and went to confront the shooter. Reportedly, they first tried to convince him to drop his weapon before shooting him.
Yeah, so the heroes did good, killing a crazy person with a gun. A crazy person with a gun. No one seems to know how to fix that.
  #8267  
Old 05-26-2018, 05:40 PM
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It's a sad tragedy when one of your kids kills another one of your kids. What is it when one of your kids kills someone else's?
I guess it depends on how much hysterical grief you can muster.
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  #8268  
Old 05-26-2018, 10:51 PM
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Hey, don't look now, but an off-duty cop shot and killed an 'intruder' which happened to be his own brother, also a cop, who came to visit him.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/05/26...lice-say.html?

Trigger happy murderer can't even stop to identify his target before shooting his own damned brother. Fucking idiot.
  #8269  
Old 05-27-2018, 05:06 AM
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Hey, don't look now, but an off-duty cop shot and killed an 'intruder' which happened to be his own brother, also a cop, who came to visit him.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/05/26...lice-say.html?

Trigger happy murderer can't even stop to identify his target before shooting his own damned brother. Fucking idiot.
This should be in the Happy Happy Gun News thread. Gun nuts killing each other is good news. Did they have time to reproduce, or is Darwinian evolution get a boost?
  #8270  
Old 05-27-2018, 09:11 AM
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Hey, don't look now, but an off-duty cop shot and killed an 'intruder' which happened to be his own brother, also a cop, who came to visit him.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/05/26...lice-say.html?

Trigger happy murderer can't even stop to identify his target before shooting his own damned brother. Fucking idiot.
He's a cop, so it must be justified.

Of course, it was also a cop that was shot under the mistaken fear that it was an intruder, and that can never be justified.

[head 'plodse]
  #8271  
Old 05-27-2018, 10:33 AM
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The best part:

No way a "good Christian" would take responsibility for the senseless death of a child....
Maybe police and reporters need to do a better job of reporting religious affiliations of shooters.

I don't recall a lot of killings in America by Hindus, Sikhs or Buddhists. Maybe Lutherans are the problem? What about Presbyterians? Are Mormons even considered "Christian"?
  #8272  
Old 05-27-2018, 11:58 AM
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This should be in the Happy Happy Gun News thread. Gun nuts killing each other is good news. Did they have time to reproduce, or is Darwinian evolution get a boost?
They both had several decades of failing to die under their belts, so there was time for that. However, there could be knock-on effects on their spawns' lives that might ultimately result in some amount of gene pool skimming.
  #8273  
Old 05-27-2018, 03:03 PM
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Hey, don't look now, but an off-duty cop shot and killed an 'intruder' which happened to be his own brother, also a cop, who came to visit him.
If not for those last details, this would be proudly presented to us in the fetish thread as a DGU With One Death. The rule seems to be that those are Positive if there's a Bad Guy killed, although it's never clear since the providers of those charming anecdotes almost never seem willing to actually discuss and explore them.

From the perspective of the dead guy, though, it's just one more tally for the butcher.
  #8274  
Old 05-29-2018, 09:20 AM
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He's a cop, so it must be justified.

Of course, it was also a cop that was shot under the mistaken fear that it was an intruder, and that can never be justified.

[head 'plodse]
What the hell is wrong with you? You may create a paradox that will destroy the universe with that kind of thinking!
  #8275  
Old 06-03-2018, 07:01 AM
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FBI agent does back flip while dancing, shoots bar patron in leg.
  #8276  
Old 06-03-2018, 08:26 AM
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...and after the victim is shot, the agent holds both hands up in the air as if to say "Hey! Everything's cool, man!" and walks away.
  #8277  
Old 06-03-2018, 10:58 AM
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...and after the victim is shot, the agent holds both hands up in the air as if to say "Hey! Everything's cool, man!" and walks away.
He also shoved it back into the small of his back, and I didn't see a holster.

Wonder if he has some wicked burns now.
  #8278  
Old 06-03-2018, 12:15 PM
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The news clip states that "the gun was dislodged from its waistband holster and fell onto the floor" so no burns.

Though I imagine his ass is quite tender after getting chewed out by his supervisor.
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  #8279  
Old 06-03-2018, 03:56 PM
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Not as tender as the leg of the guy he shot, and who is lucky to have survived.

He's part of the story too, yanno.
  #8280  
Old 06-03-2018, 05:10 PM
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Justified shooting: the fellow was shot had been resisting arrest by flailing about on the dance floor.
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  #8281  
Old 06-05-2018, 03:08 AM
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Don't guns have "safeties"? Did the FBI Agent have the safety off to save a second in case Osama bin Laden's brother joined him on the dance floor?

Sorry if these questions are ignorant. Yes, yes, I know Americans shouldn't be allowed to offer opinions about guns unless they can dismantle an AR-15 blindfolded. (Just as legislator views on abortion aren't meaningful unless the legislator has a penis?)
  #8282  
Old 06-05-2018, 05:23 AM
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As reported, this appears to be another "the gun fell on the floor and went off" story. Particularly odd if it went off as he was reaching for it - after it fell but before he touched it.
  #8283  
Old 06-05-2018, 07:30 AM
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Don't guns have "safeties"? Did the FBI Agent have the safety off to save a second in case Osama bin Laden's brother joined him on the dance floor?

Sorry if these questions are ignorant. Yes, yes, I know Americans shouldn't be allowed to offer opinions about guns unless they can dismantle an AR-15 blindfolded. (Just as legislator views on abortion aren't meaningful unless the legislator has a penis?)
Some do some don't. Most revolvers have an 'internal safety' but will still go off if the trigger is pulled. Most (I think) pistols have a safety lever or button that prevents the trigger from firing the gun. Watching the video it looks like the gun was a pistol but hard to see. It seems to have gone off as he picked it up.
  #8284  
Old 06-05-2018, 07:55 AM
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I know Americans prefer it that way, but this incident makes a really good argument for not walking around with a round in the chamber.
  #8285  
Old 06-05-2018, 09:19 AM
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Some do some don't. Most revolvers have an 'internal safety' but will still go off if the trigger is pulled. Most (I think) pistols have a safety lever or button that prevents the trigger from firing the gun. Watching the video it looks like the gun was a pistol but hard to see. It seems to have gone off as he picked it up.
There are several styles of semi-auto handguns which have a safety built into the trigger (Glock being the one that started it). If there is a round in the chamber and you pull the trigger, it will go off. Do an image search for "glock trigger" and you can see the safety.

Double-action revolvers also will go off if the trigger is pulled (no external safety). However, a revolver with the hammer down has a long, and typically harder, trigger pull. A Glock has a short, light trigger pull. I think stock it is around 5lbs but you can easily lighten them into the 2-3lb range.

I'm guessing he had a glock-style semi-auto and pulled the trigger as he caught/fumbled with the pistol.
  #8286  
Old 06-05-2018, 09:28 AM
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I'm guessing he had a glock-style semi-auto and pulled the trigger as he caught/fumbled with the pistol.
That's exactly what I think, but wasn't sure enough to say.
  #8287  
Old 06-05-2018, 11:13 AM
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As reported, this appears to be another "the gun fell on the floor and went off" story. Particularly odd if it went off as he was reaching for it - after it fell but before he touched it.
I noticed this, too!* If you look for it, it's quite notable how often the media ascribes agency to inanimate objects absolving the actors involved from responsibility for their negligent behavior. I can't find anything on this (not sure how to google this theory) but I believe it goes beyond the media and that blaming objects for bad events, ignoring the human element, is pervasive in our culture.




* Between this post and this one, Gyrate, I feel like you're in my head. If you wouldn't mind tidying up a bit, I'd appreciate it.
  #8288  
Old 06-05-2018, 11:15 AM
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Or, as you may have heard, "Guns don't shoot people. People shoot people."
  #8289  
Old 06-05-2018, 11:19 AM
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Or, as you may have heard, "Guns don't shoot people. People shoot people."
I'm pretty sure guns are still involved in those transactions. There are usually no consequences if you point your finger at someone and shout "BANG!!"...unless you are seen by an overzealous school official.
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Old 06-05-2018, 01:27 PM
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A gun hitting the floor without a human pulling the trigger puts the lie to "Guns don't kill people." BTW, witnesses claim the FBI agent picked up his gun and walked away without checking to see if anybody was hit.
"bystanders say the person responsible didn't follow up to see if anyone was injured.

Instead, according to the video, the agent raised both arms and walked away."
https://www.thedenverchannel.com/new...floor-backflip
  #8291  
Old 06-06-2018, 04:18 AM
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I noticed this, too!* If you look for it, it's quite notable how often the media ascribes agency to inanimate objects absolving the actors involved from responsibility for their negligent behavior. I can't find anything on this (not sure how to google this theory) but I believe it goes beyond the media and that blaming objects for bad events, ignoring the human element, is pervasive in our culture.
Also, it's HuffPo who are not exactly known for their journalistic rigor in their news reporting. If they report "the gun just went off" I wouldn't at all be surprised if the gun "just went off" because the guy grabbed it and accidentally pulled the trigger.

Quote:
* Between this post and this one, Gyrate, I feel like you're in my head. If you wouldn't mind tidying up a bit, I'd appreciate it.
It's already a lot tidier than mine. And with a lot less random screaming too. I might hang out for a bit. Is it okay if I use the minibar while I'm here?
  #8292  
Old 06-06-2018, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Between this post and this one, Gyrate, I feel like you're in my head. If you wouldn't mind tidying up a bit, I'd appreciate it.
It's already a lot tidier than mine. And with a lot less random screaming too. I might hang out for a bit. Is it okay if I use the minibar while I'm here?
Once again I am reminded of why I love the Dope. Thanks, guys!
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Old 06-06-2018, 01:10 PM
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Meanwhile in South Africa: a man falls asleep in his car outside of a school while waiting his teenager son. And when the son knocks the car window... R.I.P.
  #8294  
Old 06-06-2018, 03:23 PM
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A gun hitting the floor without a human pulling the trigger puts the lie to "Guns don't kill people." BTW, witnesses claim the FBI agent picked up his gun and walked away without checking to see if anybody was hit.
"bystanders say the person responsible didn't follow up to see if anyone was injured.

Instead, according to the video, the agent raised both arms and walked away."
https://www.thedenverchannel.com/new...floor-backflip
I'm afraid I'll have to report myself for stupidity.

As I understand it, the mishap required
* that the FBI officer be using a Glock the gun notorious for not having a safety
* that he not have a proper holster for the Glock
* that the Glock be in the "cocked" (bullet in chamber) configuration

If I had such a gun in the ready-to-fire state with no safety or holster and decided to start doing backflips I think I'd first retreat to a lavatory (to avoid attracting attention) and remove the round from the chamber. I deigned to say as much in the GQ thread on this matter.

I was informed that this was the stupidest comment anyone had ever heard since Pocahontas didn't know the meaning of "deadly weapon," that anyone as ignorant as I was not entitled to opinions on gun usage or the Second Commandment.

They stipulated that it would have reasonable for the agent (who had spontaneously arrived with friends) to take a taxi home to store his pistol and then (dare to) return to the back-flipping venue unarmed. But the idea that he should remove the bullet from its ready-to-fire position was so absurd, so unspeakable, that I fear I'll soon be Pitted for lamentable ignorance. ALL Glock owners keep a round in the chamber at ALL times that they're carrying the Glock at all (except while hurdling a difficult fence when hunting non-Homo game).

To contrast the one-in-a-billion chance that the chambered round will save a second (and therefore Glock-owner's life) with the risk of accidental discharge was arithmetically illicit like adding apples and Wednesdays I guess so illicit I'm worried they'll report me for a Mod warning.

Mea Culpa. I apologize to all Glock owners and all patriotic bearers of other guns-without-safeties. Please keep a round in your chamber at all times! MAGA!

Hope this helps. Best wishes. Thoughts and prayers in advance.
  #8295  
Old 06-07-2018, 04:45 PM
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What we now teach in Kindergarten - how can we tolerate this as the new normal?


Picture and reporting here and here. To the tune of Twinkle, Twinkle little star...

Lockdown. Lockdown. Lock the door.

Shut the lights off. Say no more.

Go behind the desk and hide.

Wait until its safe inside.

Lockdown. Lockdown. Its all done.

Now its time to have some fun!
  #8296  
Old 06-07-2018, 07:01 PM
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Picture and reporting here and here. To the tune of Twinkle, Twinkle little star...

Lockdown. Lockdown. Lock the door.

Shut the lights off. Say no more.

Go behind the desk and hide.

Wait until its safe inside.

Lockdown. Lockdown. Its all done.

Now its time to have some fun!
That is one of the saddest things I have ever seen.
  #8297  
Old 06-07-2018, 08:40 PM
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This is a society beset by a kind of terrorism.
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Old 06-07-2018, 11:22 PM
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which fits the theme of the thread, because terrorists are not really known for their mental agility
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Old 06-08-2018, 04:07 AM
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Old 06-08-2018, 07:44 PM
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Does this count as "stupid gun news" or is Bone gonna post it in his thread?
Quote:
For more than a year, Florida failed to do national background checks that could have disqualified people from gaining a permit to carry a concealed weapon.

The lapse, revealed in an internal report that was not widely known about until Friday, occurred during a time period when there was a significant surge in the number of people seeking permission to legally carry a concealed weapon. Florida does not allow the open carry of weapons, but more than 1.9 million have permits to carry guns and weapons in public if they are concealed.

The state ultimately revoked 291 permits and fired an employee blamed for the lapse after an inspector general’s report detailing the problem was sent in June 2017 to top officials in the department who oversee the program. The Tampa Bay Times was the first to publish information about the report, which pointed out that the state failed to check the National Instant Criminal Background Check System from February 2016 to March 2017.
Quote:
Agriculture Commissioner Adam Putnam, a Republican running for governor who has touted his efforts to make it easier for people to obtain concealed-weapons permits, said the state did conduct its own criminal background checks on those applying for permits during that time period.

Putnam blamed the problem on the negligence of a department employee.

“The former employee was both deceitful and negligent, and we immediately launched an investigation and implemented safeguards to ensure this never happens again,” Putnam said in a statement.
Quote:
Democrats and gun control advocates quickly criticized Putnam over the incident and said he should resign. Putnam has raised the ire of gun control advocates for his proclamation last year that he was a “proud NRA sellout” who supports the National Rifle Association. He also said that he would not have signed the new gun and school safety law enacted by the Florida Legislature in the aftermath of the shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland.

“Career politicians like Mr. Putnam think this is just another bad day at the office — but when you conceal a level of negligence that endangers every resident, and every child, in Florida, you forfeit any moral right to lead,” said former Miami Beach Mayor Philip Levine, one of the Democratic candidates running for governor.
But what about the person at fault?
Quote:
The final report issued in June 2017 states that an employee in the Division of Licensing did not run applications through the national system because she couldn’t log into the database. The employee is quoted in the report as saying that she “dropped the ball.”

The Times interviewed the employee, Lisa Wilde, who told them she was working in the mailroom when she was given oversight of the database in 2013.

“I didn’t understand why I was put in charge of it,” Wilde told the newspaper.
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